Proposition For Raid Rules - Input Requested

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Chrimes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

None of this is classic. Guild rivalry was one of the funnest mechanics about classic. Let all guilds compete freely, and force competition to step up on they're own to compete. Simple concept - the only thing that is broken is people wanting hand-outs.

Again, this is the attitude that got the rest of the server (including GMs) frustrated in the first place.

You need to get past this way of thinking or nothing will come out of the debates.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Kope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, this is the attitude that got the rest of the server (including GMs) frustrated in the first place.

You need to get past this way of thinking or nothing will come out of the debates.

let the gm"s speak for themselves....i doubt that is what gm"s plural think

[Fael]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dolic, you keep using this word 'competition', and I'm not sure you know what it means. How do you plan to be better than the other guy?

Loraen, your initial response questions my understanding of the word competition, but then you digress into talking about the concept of "being better than the other guy,"fast reflexes, etc. Ironically, that really has nothing to do with the word competition, which is simply "the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win."

That said, i trust that you actually do know what the word competition means. And I imagine that supremacy can in fact read and write (i for one can do it better than 95% of people who took the LSAT three years ago, which admittedly doesn't mean much).

There are aspects of raiding now that I absolutely find compelling. I for one enjoy kiting fear while other guilds are also trying to go for the engage. I enjoy finding and pulling dragons before the other guild gets fte, etc, etc. I enjoy rushing to form up groups, get final buffs, and engage trakanon or others mob as quickly as possible before the other guild does, or if the other guild engages too early and fails, etc. All of that requires decisions to be made, coordination, luck, the possibility of failure, etc, which makes raiding compelling to me.

I admit, my dopamine levels are dependent on the fact that not every encounter is like Noble, where several guilds spam auto attack and murder the mob in masse. You of course may want it to be that bad, in hopes that the sheer retardedness would force a rotation.

I question whether or not that would actually force a rotation, particularly when velious is supposedly 3 months out, and considering that most velious mobs are on a variance anyways.


Dolic

[Ungriim]

This is something that would last in velious and in no way would affect velious mobs. 100% guarantee that velious will be FFA for AT LEAST the first year. So in reality, if velious beta is near, we all miss out on MAYBE 4 of each "major" classic/kunark target and then go into velious live. Grow the fuck up.

[Ungriim]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

let the gm"s speak for themselves....i doubt that is what gm"s plural think

Again, read Rogeans front page post, you fucking moron

[Kope]

Originally Posted by Ungriim [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Again, read Rogeans front page post, you fucking moron

Even though I agree that Rogean was very specific, Alarti's point was about multiple GMs, not just Rogean.

We need to not yell AT each other, we need to be talking WITH each other and come to an agreement everyone can live with (not just the "hardcore", not just the "casuals").

[Ungriim]

I apologize. It's just hard for me to understand how roughly ~16% of raid mobs being given up to 80% of the server is even an issue, when velious is so near.

[Yinikren]

The problem is no one wants agree because the ones that think they hold power have far too much to lose.

Rogean isn't going to let TMO raid until TMO agrees to some plan to help the raid scene. TMO will never agree to anything that loses them a good potion of mobs to help, oh, every other guild that wants to raid.

Someone has to concede, and we know the ones who need to are the ones who got us in this whole mess.

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Fael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Loraen, your initial response questions my understanding of the word competition, but then you digress into talking about the concept of "being better than the other guy,"fast reflexes, etc. Ironically, that really has nothing to do with the word competition, which is simply "the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win."

Well, I had something else planned and I guess in the end it didn't quite flow. Anyway, I still think that most people would not consider pole-sitting to be competition even if does meet the Webster's definition.

Originally Posted by Fael

There are aspects of raiding now that I absolutely find compelling. I for one enjoy kiting fear while other guilds are also trying to go for the engage. I enjoy finding and pulling dragons before the other guild gets fte, etc, etc. I enjoy rushing to form up groups, get final buffs, and engage trakanon or others mob as quickly as possible before the other guild does, or if the other guild engages too early and fails, etc. All of that requires decisions to be made, coordination, luck, the possibility of failure, etc, which makes raiding compelling to me.

If this is the best you can do I'm going to have to call that a Fael (snicker). Seriously: getting FTE on dragons = running around with selos while hitting track and making sure your partner eats the charm. Who needs groups for Trakanon anyway when you have 50? And you have one guy who has to count classes and make a guess for the engage. It's like a version of the SAT with all the hard questions removes that caps at 700 combined. Again: 95% of success on the current raid scene is predicated on time invested.

Originally Posted by Fael

I admit, my dopamine levels are dependent on the fact that not every encounter is like Noble, where several guilds spam auto attack and murder the mob in masse. You of course may want it to be that bad, in hopes that the sheer retardedness would force a rotation.

No, I want repops. The reason I keep harping on variance is that I keep hearing this 'we put more effort in we deserver more mobs' nonsense. That is only true because of variance, ergo you guys have been getting handouts for years now.

And if I have to choose between no variance (= retarded FTE spam) and variance (= retarded tracking and batphoning) I'm going to choose no variance because at least its a) fair and b) wastes less time.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A very hardcore guild wouldn't be satisfied without ct/vs/trak/VP.
The reason for this entire concept is the lack of hardcore.

Get off that purp before you post Turp

Lol. Get off your high horse.
A very hardcore guild that is serious about what items they want
(not rot / item blocking) could settle with no VP or just PD etc. Changing monthly/weekly or w.e
Those "hardcore" that want VP dragon rot #1,000 s at 3 am. Would need not apply. The other targets I could see on the list.
I never even have done more than briefly think on this subject so no reason to go to in depth. Unless it has to happen.

The reason for this entire concept is the lack of hardcore.
I believe "the reason for this entire concept" of these posts, is actually total opposite of what you claim. Instead of being a lack of hardcore community, It is that the hardcore people have to many within it wanting rot # 5000 and not enough hardcore players leaders cared to give up 1-2 mobs to the less hardcore casuals. Ending up in a bunch of posts this week. To many ruthless hardcore's wanting rot #5001, they crave it.

Ending up in this concept of forum questing for mobs.