Proposition For Raid Rules - Input Requested

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There still is a risk to not get your full point spread. Competition is still there. If they want to raid together to make it easier. Then they share a point bucket. If they want to go separate...they need to compete against each other. Do not think I am trying to give fe/ib (love my fe bros tho) an advantage with 440 points. If they want to split, They need to do the work like the a-team or bda would. With no help by others on the engage. No cheating or shennaigans.



Also all of this is NOT counting vp kills. The big 2/3 should be more focused on vp anyway.

But how are points awarded? Guild size or per tag? If it's per tag you could simply have shell guilds that raid together. If it's per size (5 pts per member, or w/e) then you're again encouraging giant numbers in guilds monopolizing content. If it's guild caps with capped points, then you're encouraging hardcores with shell guilds.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I would like to think that GMs would catch on quickly to prevent a guild splintering solely for the purpose of more mob attempts. There's a reason I haven't acknowledged bob guild in a post yet, they have to earn their spot for points - how I am sure we can decide as a server.

It could even be a time thing - a guild has to exist for 6 months before they can claim they want points for raid attempts, or some such rule.

Time to start buying up old guild tags, ho ho ho.

[radditsu]

See I dont like a weighted number system for two reasons.

1. Almost all boss mobs drop epic pieces for someone.
2. The math gets all squirrelly and I got a broken finger and I dont want to do it!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See I dont like a weighted number system for two reasons.

1. Almost all boss mobs drop epic pieces for someone.
2. The math gets all squirrelly and I got a broken finger and I dont want to do it!

With whokilledit and other raid timers on google docs, as a member of BDA you're well aware that there are people on this server fully capable and willing of maintaining such a system. The reality is a points system will be gamed in whatever way it is set up, especially if the number of points available to the entire server (whoever they choose to organize) vastly outstrips the amount of mobs available. The problem also being made worse by the fact that there's ~ 10 targets outside of VP worth contesting.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But how are points awarded? Guild size or per tag? If it's per tag you could simply have shell guilds that raid together. If it's per size (5 pts per member, or w/e) then you're again encouraging giant numbers in guilds monopolizing content. If it's guild caps with capped points, then you're encouraging hardcores with shell guilds.

A raid system shouldn't care about the size of a guild. If they want to splinter then they should be prepared to work by what their TAG brings to the table.


I have not thought through the effects on multi guild raids. If they want to "help" a guild... outside of an "open" raid and not get loot.... thats fine. But if they get loot they need to spend points.

[Yinikren]

But I already did the math Rad! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Clearly the server would have to agree on the cost per mob. Those numbers I just came up with can always be tweaked in our shiny raid forums.

Plus, you have to think about the future - Velious. We only have 19 raid mobs, counting Noble Dojorn and his loot train as one. VERROUS brings 58 mobs by my count, so point costs can be adjusted then when there's more mobs to go around. ST key piece mobs can be increased in price to prevent one guild taking all 5 a week. Things can always be adjusted based on what works.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Originally Posted by radditsu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A raid system shouldn't care about the size of a guild. If they want to splinter then they should be prepared to work by what their TAG brings to the table.


I have not thought through the effects on multi guild raids. If they want to "help" a guild... outside of an "open" raid and not get loot.... thats fine. But if they get loot they need to spend points.

Sure, but you know that TMO and IBFE is massive. They could split into smaller guilds and get more points by whatever measure to spend on such targets.

edit: Also, I realize there would most likely be provisions against such things, I'm simply trying to refine those provisions to make the spirit and letter of the rules become as close as possible.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by HeallunRumblebelly [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

With whokilledit and other raid timers on google docs, as a member of BDA you're well aware that there are people on this server fully capable and willing of maintaining such a system. The reality is a points system will be gamed in whatever way it is set up, especially if the number of points available to the entire server (whoever they choose to organize) vastly outstrips the amount of mobs available. The problem also being made worse by the fact that there's ~ 10 targets outside of VP worth contesting.

Ex bda and I guess ex FE!

This system as written gives 14 mobs nobody wold have got with our current fte system. The top still needs to work for mobs (which they SHOULD want to do.) The bottom gets more access and can build into the "elite l" tier.


The reason for no vp...as it stands now only 2 or 3 guilds tops can do it. Why should they get punished for more access...you dont have a chance to even kill them.

[Tyym]

I hate to remind you all that Classic Everquest prior to all the instancing and stupidfying of the game provided us an environment exactly as it is now. A population that of players where casual guilds outnumbered hardcore raiders 3 to 1 but with the raid guilds capturing 90% of the loot. It is what made the game fun. As I posted in another thread, if you want easy and everyone to be equal, play WoW. If you want to experience the high end:

1I hate to remind you all that Classic Everquest prior to all the instancing and stupidfying of the game provided us an environment exactly as it is now. A population that of players where casual guilds outnumbered hardcore raiders 3 to 1 but with the raid guilds capturing 90% of the loot. It is what made the game fun. As I posted in another thread, if you want easy and everyone to be equal, play WoW. If you want to experience the high end:

1 Apply to a guild already raiding this content
2 Build your guild to compete and get a full commitment from everyone in it.

[Yinikren]

They aren't punished for doing VP- they are paying to do those mobs instead of epic mobs or trak. They shouldn't get both.