Open season on ALL Guilds!

[freez]

Originally Posted by Dullah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nilly scowling at fartbrand, threateningly to red dawn

shut up. you have no control over anything guild related

qq more because variance is gettting put in and you will have to work for banked pixels... or maybe u wont?

[Something'Witty]

Originally Posted by DrNarcisse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lets assume the server had a full repop tomorrow at 6pm. You would implement variance for that event. Therefore, no mobs would actually spawn at 6pm (or very unlikely that they would). Every raid mob would have a spawn window from 6pm-6am the following morning. After that initial variance-repop, you would switch back to no-variance.

I was thinking of a much longer window, maybe 3 days, with regards to initial full server repop variance. That way the mob spawn times would be random initially, solving the "super raid day" scenario you are arguing against. At the same time, the anti variance crowd get fixed spawn times, and only have to deal with variance after a full repop. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

[iiNGloriouS]

Originally Posted by Something'Witty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was thinking of a much longer window, maybe 3 days, with regards to initial full server repop variance. That way the mob spawn times would be random initially, solving the "super raid day" scenario you are arguing against. At the same time, the anti variance crowd get fixed spawn times, and only have to deal with variance after a full repop. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

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[DrNarcisse]

Originally Posted by Something'Witty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was thinking of a much longer window, maybe 3 days, with regards to initial full server repop variance. That way the mob spawn times would be random initially, solving the "super raid day" scenario you are arguing against. At the same time, the anti variance crowd get fixed spawn times, and only have to deal with variance after a full repop. Seems like a decent compromise to me.

I mean, everything I said remains the same. If you're expecting some competition to swoop in and contest in this situation, it's not happening. You've had 18+ months to create a monster, and now you have a monster. What you're saying is still essentially non-variance, except you are staggering the first spawn of mobs based on variance aspect. Like, I just don't understand the intention. Nihilum is still going to do whatever they want over those 3 days. Either they will kill the mob around when it spawns, or they will just defend the mobs and coast them into a spawn window that they prefer. Even if magically another guild were to snipe one (hell even a couple) raid mobs, all Nihilum does is waits until next week and brings 60 players, now what do you do? Oh, yeah you log off because now every spawn is non-variance and they're just going to either kill it themselves or defend it until all their other mobs spawn.

So yeah, I commend you for trying to think outside the box, but you still have a pure non-variance system. That "super raid day" will take either a week or at most, a couple of weeks, to get back on schedule. My guess is no one would show up to compete for the first spawn, it's an enormous headache for a slight, one time opportunity at sniping a mob in a small 3 day window. Then its business as usual.

[Something'Witty]

Originally Posted by DrNarcisse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, everything I said remains the same. If you're expecting some competition to swoop in and contest in this situation, it's not happening. You've had 18+ months to create a monster, and now you have a monster. What you're saying is still essentially non-variance, except you are staggering the first spawn of mobs based on variance aspect. Like, I just don't understand the intention. Nihilum is still going to do whatever they want over those 3 days. Either they will kill the mob around when it spawns, or they will just defend the mobs and coast them into a spawn window that they prefer. Even if magically another guild were to snipe one (hell even a couple) raid mobs, all Nihilum does is waits until next week and brings 60 players, now what do you do? Oh, yeah you log off because now every spawn is non-variance and they're just going to either kill it themselves or defend it until all their other mobs spawn.

So yeah, I commend you for trying to think outside the box, but you still have a pure non-variance system. That "super raid day" will take either a week or at most, a couple of weeks, to get back on schedule. My guess is no one would show up to compete for the first spawn, it's an enormous headache for a slight, one time opportunity at sniping a mob in a small 3 day window. Then its business as usual.

Two things:

1) The part in bold: It sounds like a lot of PvP and maybe some fun will be had, on both sides.

2) The part underlined: So how is that any different then having variance on each spawn? It makes me think that your crusade against variance is nothing more than an attempt to grief Nihilum from wherever you got banished to.


Again, I purpose this scenario as compromise between the two camps. Neither side gets everything that they want.

[DrNarcisse]

Originally Posted by Something'Witty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Two things:

1) The part in bold: It sounds like a lot of PvP and maybe some fun will be had, on both sides.

2) The part underlined: So how is that any different then having variance on each spawn? It makes me think that your crusade against variance is nothing more than an attempt to grief Nihilum from wherever you got banished to.


Again, I purpose this scenario as compromise between the two camps. Neither side gets everything that they want.

Dude, really? You don't see what's wrong?

ok, in #1, lets assume you get some pvp. So what? Lets say those 3 days are the most exciting days of PVP on the server. It's like going back in time and playing EQ in the clouds! Awesome pvp, awesome time! What happens the following week? Oops. Now you're back to static spawning mobs that will be up in 168 hours precisely. Do you know what's going to be waiting for you? The DKP machine, 60 level 60s. Do you think pvp is going to ever happen again?

Do you know why you think point #1 brings pvp? Because it would. Do you know what the mechanic behind it is? It's variance. That's the variance aspect of your idea. What ruins it and stops the pvp? non-variance. Do I have to keep explaining?


Your second point, #2, I'm not sure what you're asking. I gave you a best case scenario for your plan, which is somehow a magical group of players forms up and is able to kill a couple raid mobs in your scenario. That's the best case. I think the most obvious case is that no one would even show up to PVP, I mean what has really changed? You've added variance for a sole week, one lousy spawn. Everything will be back to business as usual by the following week or a couple weeks after at most. So why do we bother trying to mount up to compete when nothing, not one single thing, has changed to the core problem of the server policy? In addition, this is not anti-Nihilum, it certainly is anti-Zerg. Non-variance strengthens an already incredibly strong zerg. The zerg already rules by numbers, non-variance allows you to doubledown on that because you know exactly when the mob is up, and you position your zerg to defend against any competition.

I mean ask yourself, how can you compete against 60 level 60 players? The only way is to out recruit them and become the zerg yourself. That's what non-variance leads to. 18 months of data has proven it. Variance (as you aptly say yourself) will likely lead to PVP, and you're only talking about 3 measely days in your scenario. My scenario is variance 24/7/365, 12hour windows where mobs will be pingponging across the week and hour, allowing multiple types of guilds to compete. I don't doubt that Nihilum will remain on top, but they will have to earn mobs that they plan on farming.

[Retti_]

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[Something'Witty]

Originally Posted by DrNarcisse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What happens the following week? Oops. Now you're back to static spawning mobs that will be up in 168 hours precisely. Do you know what's going to be waiting for you? The DKP machine, 60 level 60s. Do you think pvp is going to ever happen again?

But the spawning mobs will be spread out over 1-?? days. The only advantage having further variance would be to prevent Nilly from consolidating the mobs spawn times and increase the chance of non-Nilly guilds sniping mobs. However, if Nilly is able to defend multiple mobs and consolidate spawn times, then I doubt increasing the amount of variance would really help other guilds, especially when more variance results in poopsocking and batphones. Do you think any current guilds would be able to compete with Nihilum in those departments?


After the above quote I stopped reading. I try not to feed trolls, well too much*...

[k9quaint]

Originally Posted by Dullah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

nilly scowling at fartbrand, threateningly to red dawn

Thank god the PVP is a rare drop from Nihilum which is a rare spawn. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[DrNarcisse]

Originally Posted by Something'Witty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But the spawning mobs will be spread out over 1-?? days. The only advantage having further variance would be to prevent Nilly from consolidating the mobs spawn times and increase the chance of non-Nilly guilds sniping mobs. However, if Nilly is able to defend multiple mobs and consolidate spawn times, then I doubt increasing the amount of variance would really help other guilds, especially when more variance results in poopsocking and batphones. Do you think any current guilds would be able to compete with Nihilum in those departments?

Well now you've flown the coop. You asked for me to break down what would happen give your own morphed variance+non variance scenario and I gave you my opinion. You recognized that the 3 day period of variance would result in PVP (if there was competition), but you're failing to understand the even more obvious part after that, that non-variance kicks back in and puts the server in the exact same situation it currently is in.

Yes, dude, if by some magical force there is a competition that is willing to show up for a singular round of variance that then reverts back to non-variance, Nihilum will simply do everything in their power to reconsolidate the mob spawns into a single spawn window. I pointed out that it could take several weeks, if competition was dedicated enough, but at some point they will realize nothing changes. You cannot out zerg a zerg. After the initial round of variance, the mobs are non-variance'd. There is absolutely nothing you can do if 60 level 60s decide to sit ontop of the mob and just wait to start consolidating mobs into their preferred window. It's... like... painfully obvious that's exactly what any guild in their position would do.

However, if Nilly is able to defend multiple mobs and consolidate spawn times, then I doubt increasing the amount of variance would really help other guilds, especially when more variance results in poopsocking and batphones.

The only advantage having further variance would be to prevent Nilly from consolidating the mobs spawn times and increase the chance of non-Nilly guilds sniping mobs.

Read these sentences/bold you wrote. From the same paragraph, they are juxtaposed. You're arguing against yourself, and then calling me a troll. You doubt that increasing variance would help other guilds, and in the same breath you say that variance would prevent Nihilum from consolidating mobs and increase the odds of non-zerg guilds to kill raid mobs.

That's the entire point. The consolidation piece is what makes non-variance incredibly strong. A zerg is already very strong because they have a lot of people. If you can move the spawns so that everything is back-to-back-to-back, your numbers are even stronger. Why? Because instead of having to log 50 players in on multiple days, for long periods of time, once you have consolidated (as you say it) all the mobs, you now only need to get those 50 players to log in for a 3 hour window, once a week, every single week. So it strengthens an incumbent zerg. You answered your own question above about variance. It seems like you'd rather not hear it, but you can read it in your own writing.