Will i pass my drug test? Will i get the job?

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Auvdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...Go learn why group therapy works. And I mean the underlying issue.

Does it? All the numbers I've ever seen have shown that things like AA and NA are no more effective than 0 treatment (5-10% success rate).

[Langrisserx]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. With no other disease, do you have a simple cure of "stop doing the thing that is making you sick." You can't cure AIDS by stopping anal sex. You can't cure lung cancer by stopping smoking. Addiction is really just about never learning how to consciously control your subconscious desires.

thats the most bullshit naive idealistic nonsense ive ever read.

you can DIE from alcohol withdrawal. People can't will the pain away thats why they kill it with drugs.

best case scenario usually involves another medication, and or luck.

[Auvdar]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does it? All the numbers I've ever seen have shown that things like AA and NA are no more effective than 0 treatment (5-10% success rate).

It's greater than that if used completely.

The biggest problem with AA/NA is the anonymous factor. It's incredibly hard to get a accurate success rate.

You also have to take into account that most of the time success rate means "They stopped for good", when in reality most people do relapse a few times before they finally get completely clean.

The biggest selling point about AA/NA and other group therapy is that it helps treat a underlying issue with your addiction. Being able to learn how to live a healthy lifestyle (which is the base of what AA teaches you) gives you a big leg up over not when it comes to getting clean.

It's easier to stay clean if everything else in your life is going well. It's hard to stay clean when your life is a wreck. You learn how to live life on lifes terms, and be positive and happy then drugs become much less of a need.

But any statistic you read about AA/NA and whatnot are either misleading or wrong. The truth is you really can't measure how successful it actually is.

But it doesn't take a genius to gather that having a good healthy support structure will increase your chances of recovery vs. nothing at all. Sure some people can get clean on their own, in fact many people do. I know a few people who have quit Meth could turkey and are doing just fine without it years later. If that's you, more power to you. If you can't, then it doesn't hurt anything to try AA/NA.

[Auvdar]

Originally Posted by Langrisserx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

thats the most bullshit naive idealistic nonsense ive ever read.

you can DIE from alcohol withdrawal. People can't will the pain away thats why they kill it with drugs.

best case scenario usually involves another medication, and or luck.

There is some truth behind what he said. Not being able to tell your sub-conscience 'no' is a very big part about addiction.

However the chemical involvment between frontal cortex and hypothalamus (I think at least. It's late and I'm not thinking clearly. The part of the brain that controlls basic behaviour. Correct my brain termology if I am wrong with the naming) is very complex that it becomes almost impossible for some people to actually be able to tell it 'no'.

Repeatative actions, neuro-genesis, can fix this. But it does take time.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Auvdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you knew anything about how addiction works in your brain, you would never associate addiction with being weak-willed.

You can call it a disease or not, that's up to you. I have my reserves to calling it a out right disease too. But saying that someone just needs to "man up and stop doing it, all it takes is will power" is about the most moronic thing you can say.
....

I could care less if people consider it a disease or not. But to think addicts are just weak-willed people is completely false. No doctor, scientist, therapist (read: people who are much more educated in this) will ever say it's just a matter of willpower. That's just a social dogma that people use to justify being clueless about how addiction works.

Bitch please. I know addiction firsthand. I am educated both in the streets and the classroom. I've studied the chemistry of the brain. I smoked meth in the 90's. The 90's! I spent a decade as an every-day fall-down drunk. I've done hundreds of hours of court-mandated therapy, I've done AA, in-patient commitments, jail, etc etc. Am I credible yet?

I finally quit because I decided to, alone. I honestly don't see any other way. All your therapy is simply trying to push you toward that choice. No one else is going to quit for you.

Addiction is less a disease and more an allergy. Some folks have an adverse reaction to certain substances. You don't try an cure an allergy. You just demand of yourself, "I'm not going to shoot-up today because it will kill everything I love."

[Itap]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one else is going to quit for you.

/thread

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Auvdar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's greater than that if used completely.

The biggest problem with AA/NA is the anonymous factor. It's incredibly hard to get a accurate success rate.

You also have to take into account that most of the time success rate means "They stopped for good", when in reality most people do relapse a few times before they finally get completely clean.

The biggest selling point about AA/NA and other group therapy is that it helps treat a underlying issue with your addiction. Being able to learn how to live a healthy lifestyle (which is the base of what AA teaches you) gives you a big leg up over not when it comes to getting clean.

It's easier to stay clean if everything else in your life is going well. It's hard to stay clean when your life is a wreck. You learn how to live life on lifes terms, and be positive and happy then drugs become much less of a need.

But any statistic you read about AA/NA and whatnot are either misleading or wrong. The truth is you really can't measure how successful it actually is.

But it doesn't take a genius to gather that having a good healthy support structure will increase your chances of recovery vs. nothing at all. Sure some people can get clean on their own, in fact many people do. I know a few people who have quit Meth could turkey and are doing just fine without it years later. If that's you, more power to you. If you can't, then it doesn't hurt anything to try AA/NA.

Let's say AA/NA had 100% success rate. Does that prove addiction is a disease? Defensive driving courses help people get better at driving. Does that mean bad driving is a disease?

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by Orruar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does that mean bad driving is a disease?

Depends.

Is it an illness to be a woman or, God forbid -- an Asian?

[Orruar]

Originally Posted by Langrisserx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you can DIE from alcohol withdrawal. People can't will the pain away thats why they kill it with drugs.

best case scenario usually involves another medication, and or luck.

What does that have to do with anything? When I quit smoking, I tapered off so as to lessen the physical effects. But that doesn't mean it was a disease. Again, you don't cure cirrhosis of the liver by slowly reducing your alcohol intake.

[radditsu]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bitch please. I know addiction firsthand. I am educated both in the streets and the classroom. I've studied the chemistry of the brain. I smoked meth in the 90's. The 90's! I spent a decade as an every-day fall-down drunk. I've done hundreds of hours of court-mandated therapy, I've done AA, in-patient commitments, jail, etc etc. Am I credible yet?

I finally quit because I decided to, alone. I honestly don't see any other way. All your therapy is simply trying to push you toward that choice. No one else is going to quit for you.

Addiction is less a disease and more an allergy. Some folks have an adverse reaction to certain substances. You don't try an cure an allergy. You just demand of yourself, "I'm not going to shoot-up today because it will kill everything I love."

I miss the 90s