Best one sentence summation of how I feel, ever.

[Kagatob]

Originally Posted by Abner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every time Illuzionz ownz someone he is suddenly labeled a troll, ignorant or both. Interesting.

When Lron 'ownz' someone, please let me know. He's simply repeating rhetoric that has all been debunked years ago.

[Quientus]

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lucifer IS Satan. Lucifer was the name of Satan before he fell from Heaven.



Only to an ignorant person who is incapable of discerning the truth. The truth exists and it can be known so taking the stance of "guess we'll never know!" is about as retarded as being an atheist.

For someone who refers to the bible alot, you seemingly haven't read it thoroughly, or you just don't remember well ...;

NO where in the old testament does it say that Lucifer and Satan are the same ... Satan ia believed to be a fallen ANGEL, whereas Lucifer is alluded to be the "Antichrist", referencing the King of Babylon, however the name Lucifer is derived from Latin meaning "Lightbearer" and the name of the King of Babylon, Helal, in Hebrew means "Son of Light/Dawn" ...

So to summize using the old testament (bible) which you are so fond of referring to, even depicts Satan and Lucifer as different beings, one being immortal the other mortal ...

[Csihar]

You're either a theist or an atheist. You can be agnostic in addition to one of those.

Atheist/theist has to do with what you believe in. If you reply 'yes' to the question "do you believe in a god or gods?" then you're a theist, any other reply (including "I don't know") makes you an atheist.

Agnosticism has to do with knowledge. If you say, for example, that you (proverbial or literal you) can't know whether or not God exist then you're agnostic.

Some theists have faith that God exists but when asked they'll say they don't have conclusive evidence and don't really know for sure whether or not he exists = agnostic theist.

Someone who says God does not exist = positive/hard/strong atheist.

Atheism is the default "position" until conclusive evidence shows otherwise and the cosmological argument is flawed.

[Csihar]

Satan isn't a name either way. It's ha-satan or "the adversary" or "the accuser". The role of the character mentioned is quite different in the Old Testament than it is in the New Testament (if they're the same person).

[theaetatus]

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Only to an ignorant person who is incapable of discerning the truth. The truth exists and it can be known so taking the stance of "guess we'll never know!" is about as retarded as being an atheist.

Taking the stance of "We do not know", however, is the only rational viewpoint. We don't, simple as that.

You have no grounds for proclaiming that "The truth exists and it can be known". You are just guessing like the rest of us.

[pharmakos]

all statements of truth, aside from basic statements about the natural numbers, are necessarily either incomplete or incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6...eness_theorems

[Illuzionz]

Originally Posted by Quientus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For someone who refers to the bible alot, you seemingly haven't read it thoroughly, or you just don't remember well ...;

NO where in the old testament does it say that Lucifer and Satan are the same ... Satan ia believed to be a fallen ANGEL, whereas Lucifer is alluded to be the "Antichrist", referencing the King of Babylon, however the name Lucifer is derived from Latin meaning "Lightbearer" and the name of the King of Babylon, Helal, in Hebrew means "Son of Light/Dawn" ...

So to summize using the old testament (bible) which you are so fond of referring to, even depicts Satan and Lucifer as different beings, one being immortal the other mortal ...

Sorry but you don't have a single clue what you're talking about. Not sure where the hell you heard any of the things you just said but the Bible makes it blatantly obvious that Lucifer becomes Satan after his fall. The passage from Isaiah is clearly referring to Lucifer and not the king of Babylon. Why would be refer to the king of Babylon as Lucifer? Also, Jesus later on refers to Satan and says that he saw Satan fall from Heaven like lightning just like the passage from Isaiah mentions having happened to Lucifer.

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning...For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation on the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'"

The king of Babylon didn't fall from Heaven nor was he in anyway known as the son of the morning. Also it is common knowledge that Satan is the one who wants to be like the Most High. Also, Satan controls the kingdoms of the world and therefor it's kings as well. So when the message would be relayed to the king, Satan would also hear it.

[Ahldagor]

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O'day-star,
Son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground,
That didst cast lots over the nations!
For thou hast said in thine heart,
I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God.
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation,
In the sides of the north.
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the most High."

where is the transfiguration of Lucifer into Satan in this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsayWd5BveQ

[Quientus]

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sorry but you don't have a single clue what you're talking about. Not sure where the hell you heard any of the things you just said but the Bible makes it blatantly obvious that Lucifer becomes Satan after his fall. The passage from Isaiah is clearly referring to Lucifer and not the king of Babylon. Why would be refer to the king of Babylon as Lucifer? Also, Jesus later on refers to Satan and says that he saw Satan fall from Heaven like lightning just like the passage from Isaiah mentions having happened to Lucifer.

Oh boy ... there are so many inconsistencies and misinformation from your part, I don't know where to start ...

I don't know if you are just a troll (a poor one at that even) or just plain ignorant ... or perhaps both ??? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1) You do realize the word "Lucifer" is derived from latin ? And as such didn't even exist in the "Bible" or "ancient writings" you claim untill the 3rd century AD ...

2) "Satan" is a word / name whose origins far precedes AD 0 ... - But if you really read the "Bible" you would know this ...

3) Searching the Bible, the name Lucifer only appears once and this is in Isaiah 14:12.

In this verse the person is also described as; "Son of the Morning."

This is not necessarily the 'morning star' only found two times in the Book of the Revelation.

Rev 22:16 "I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star". Christ is giving himself this title. The title is not exclusive to Christ who gives this title to anyone who overcomes as he overcame; Rev 2: 26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: ... v28 And I will give him the morning star.

Babylon was at one time the greatest nation/kingdom on earth. God gives the interpretation of King Nebuchadnezzar’s dream (Daniel 2: 36- 45) in which Babylon is identified as the head of Gold. The prophecy goes on to say that the next kingdom to supercede Babylon would be the Medes and the Persians (breast of silver) an inferior nation by comparison to the wealth and splendour of Babylon.

God told through the prophet Isaiah the judgments that would come on Babylon. God’s message was to the to the King of Babylon. Here is the pronouncement made about Babylon

"And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there. Isaiah 13:19-21

Also; In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court

So it is actually logical to summize that Isiah is talking/referencing the King of Babylon and not some deity ...

Originally Posted by Illuzionz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The king of Babylon didn't fall from Heaven nor was he in anyway known as the son of the morning. Also it is common knowledge that Satan is the one who wants to be like the Most High. Also, Satan controls the kingdoms of the world and therefor it's kings as well. So when the message would be relayed to the king, Satan would also hear it.

I never claimed that the King of Babylon "fell from heaven" ...

Not to mention the word/name "Satan" ...

However I digress ..., for someone like you, who is all "High and Mighty" and lecturing people in the Bible ... You sure do not seem as if you have really ready it, just the cliff-notes and not even those at best ...

[Daldolma]

calls guy bad troll

furiously posts 15 paragraph retort on elf simulator forum