R99 - 'Improving' Spell Casting

[Smedy]

Originally Posted by Alecta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Resists

This is the area of greatest 'greyness' for R99, and so I am sure everyone will hate me no matter what I do.

Prior to this last patch, every PvP spell went through the same resist curve. Certain spell types had often rather large +resist modifiers added to them to shift the curve around, but it was the same curve.

So what we've done is add new 'PvP resist calculations' to the system, where we can tag individual spells (procs / poisons / bard songs) as having a particular resist calculation. Currently, we only have 3 implemented:

1. PvP Unresistible - used in Rapture, Splurt, Lifetaps, etc.
2. PvP Linear with Cap - used in Roots currently, lets us specific a point where the resists hit the 98% cap.
3. Default (Null's curve)

We're planning on adding some more such as :

1. One for rogue blinds - bit harder to resist than normal poison spells since they are 1 shot and require reagents, but with very nerfed partials so you aren't blinded or snared for 2 minutes.
2. One for stuns - perhaps taking into account the level of the spell for your class and level of the caster, so your highest level stun can land occasionally, but spamming 4 low level stuns wont keep people locked down.
3. One for non-lure DDs - which will predominately focus on the partial logic.

Any player feedback on spells or proposed resist functions is welcome.

Also, we've worked out a way to cap resists at 255, which isnt a huge deal at this point, but will be implemented prior to Velious, and should help keep things a little more manageable from a resist point of view.

Live was weird, i'm pretty sure they coded each spell individually and didn't use a resist curve for everything.

Look at a spell like "Shock of Lightning" as an example, it's a wizard spell at lvl 16 that was more or less unresistable in pvp, and it gave a tiny tiny knockback. Everyone used it because of this, never any DATA that it was a lure or anything.

Same goes with Winged Death and that line of spells, it did say -100mr check on some sites i remember, but knowing that a lot of people in late velious easily capped MR at 255 and still never ever resisted this spell makes me think it was unresistable as well.

No body knows breh, just gonna have to go on what works for pvp (isn't op as fuck) and what we remember.

Also i've heard a lot of complaining about the Mage Epic pet, people seem to have this fond idea that it was completely immune to snare/root and that wasn't the case.

I played a epic mage during live and my pet was often rooten/snared, it did however make a HUGE difference if someone put a magic resist buff on it. I'd say without the mr buff it resisted about 2/3 roots, with mr buff it probably resisted 8/10 root/snares.

Many people were retarded on live and didn't dispell the pet, thus making the pet a god damn beast

[Agatha]

smedy jesus knows the truth.

[Dullah]

Adjusting resists shouldn't be too complicated. You just raise the threshold for resists as the knowledge of the game has increased. A lower resist threshold wasn't that big of a deal in kunark because few people ran around completely decked in resist gear.

Now we know better.

Reliable threshold for resists on live was 75~ with complete resists not being uncommon and scaling up from there. Reliable threshold for resists on r99 is almost double that at like 150~ with no complete resists and a chance for spells to still hit for full as opposed to being completely resisted (dumb)...

Just move it to the middle at 115 and then add a scaling chance for complete resists as you move towards 255 where 255 save gives around 25-50% chance for complete resist. Still way more reasonable towards casters than classic, but actually rewards those willing to sacrifice everything else for resists.

[Pudge]

Originally Posted by Alecta [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Non-Classic Mechanics

You've had a chance to play with these, we want some feedback on whether or not they should stay in.

Soft LOS Check

Null created a system where if you had LOS on a player at the beginning of the detrimental spell and your target went out of LOS at the end of the cast, your spell wouldn't fail if the player was still within 70% of the spells range.

Personally, I feel like this is not a good thing. It reduces the importance of positioning and timing in dungeon pvp and it makes new players cry hax when they get nuked through walls. Thoughts?

Root and Snare Duration

Null also made it so root and snare do not have a chance to break on ticks. Instead if they land, they always land for the full duration. They only break on spell damage and melee damage. Melee damage has a (damage/5)% chance to break, so a 500 hp blow always breaks it, a 250 hp blow will have a 50% chance to break it, etc.

Personally, I think that by not giving it a chance to break on ticks, it further trivializes resists. And while I understand the logic behind the melee damage, that's not exactly classic.

Also, the Titanium Client has a 24 second snare cap for PvP that we are currently overriding. Any opinions on the 24 second cap with tic checks for snare?

LoS check: think null had it perfect here. Maaybe reduce the range to 50% only in dungeons, and keep it 70% for outdoors. Running around in guk or solb or whatever dungeon, you have almost 0 chance of getting to 70% spell distance, especially if mobs are around. If los was needed both at beginning and end, casters would be way too gimped. They'd basically be limited to outdoor zones with flat plains (they'd get to rule the karanas though!...).

Root: I always thought null's root system with 5% was fine, and the one time someone actually gets rooted they cry too hard. Mage pet root was actually op, but regular root... RARELY was casted in PvP. Only time I ever saw it was desperate attempts at keeping someone from reaching a zone line. I've never even once had a guild "root train" called. It's always a "dispell train" for a reason. If root was as op as everyone complains it was, they'd have actually been casting the spell.

That said.. seeing as it's already been changed to 2% chance down from 5, I really think it doesn't matter how the "break" mechanic functions. Breaking on ticks (and nukes) is most classic, so do it so nilbog can sleep better at night.

Snare: I'd keep it going over 24 seconds, with resist checks every tick. Classic. Hrm.. with regards to root and snare, once they land the first time, is the "break free" check harder to pass than the initial "get rooted" check? Because if they are the same (which I do not think they should be) then all roots and snares would only be lasting for 1 tick... this would make them really even more useless, and probably why null had them land for full duration and then have them break the way he did. Soo.. the "break free" check would have to have a lower probability than the initial landing of the spell.

[Colgate]

Originally Posted by Pudge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Root: I always thought null's root system with 5% was fine, and the one time someone actually gets rooted they cry too hard. Mage pet root was actually op, but regular root... RARELY was casted in PvP. Only time I ever saw it was desperate attempts at keeping someone from reaching a zone line. I've never even once had a guild "root train" called. It's always a "dispell train" for a reason. If root was as op as everyone complains it was, they'd have actually been casting the spell.

every group/mass pvp had at least 1 or 2 people chain casting root on me

there were many fights where it would land and i'd be instagibbed

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Colgate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

every group/mass pvp had at least 1 or 2 people chain casting root on me

there were many fights where it would land and i'd be instagibbed

Why didn't they just chain sunstrike you?

[failed2k]

In Velious with over 100 in every resist, I don't remember a whole lot of stuff sticking.
Things I remember clearly (From velious era pvp in general spell resist wise)

Wizards used ice spear on targets they thought had bad resists, and had to Lure everyone else, I got constant full or heavy partials on ice spears, Draughts were totally unusable in pvp against anyone with decent gear.

Necro's were studs because of unresistable lifetaps and splurt, never once do I recall any of their ignite bones line sticking at all.

Mage nukes basically didnt land for full until they stuck malo, then they could get fulls and partials on their fire stuff. MAge Epic pet stun was nearly unresistable, to get steady resists I remember needing nearly 180 mr or something.

Enchs raptured you until they charmed something good, or a wizard friend showed up.

Druids worked Winged Death Line, and also their Epic click was actually kind of hard to resist, also their fire nukes were rarely full resisted, but you could get frequent partials.

Shamans , Bane of Nife stuck on people without good Pr(over like 80-100 range), Poxx was streaky but I swear it would just randomly stick even with good Dr sometimes. Their ice nukes were a bit like druid nukes, not a lot of full lands, but not a lot of full resists either.

Clerics , Nothing they did stuck really, they just were basically unkillable, one of their last nukes would partial sometimes, but often got full resisted.

Palys Could land random low level stuns on people, but at like 1/5 success rate over 100mr 1/8 over 130 or so, good paly pvpers would space quick stuns in between joust cycles just for the off chance of a winning trade.

Rangers sucked until AA's Sorry dudez, their fire nuke would partial, but rarely full resist or full land :/

Sk's got by on lifetaps and spamming clinging darkness on targets they felt had low MR. Also HT was not realistically resistable by players. With unholy aura, I'm fairly sure it was actually unresistable.

Bards got by on not actually trying to kill anyone and instead facilitating disgusting group pvp, also BardTouch(the big nuke name eludes me) was difficult to full resist, but did get some partials. Most of their chants were unreliable, and often they just ran around with Selos and tried to frost chant you/snare you. They were never a killing threat to geared melee's, and didnt do a ton better against geared casters.


these are just general memories I have of velious era pvp on Rallos Zek, contributing to the information banks.


Also the LOS'ing casters thing by ducking around corners existed on rallos for a VERY long time, I don't think it should exist, because it is pretty dumb, but it was there, I remember doing it all the time in Sol B. IT got changed eventually, but I cannot for the life of me remember when.



Also this a big one people have been asking about

Lifetaps did NOT heal for full on players in pvp, I tested this a bunch on live when I first got Life Leech scroll, trying to figure out exactly how much it healed me off players ect, and it was hit by the 60% modifier like everything else in pvp

[Osyruz]

Looking directly at a mob, only slightly down hill from it, not even a foot or 2 lower then it, pings the LoS check. You basicly have to be dead even on the same ground as the mob to cast on it. If it is slightly uphill or downhill from you, it flags it as not in your LoS. This makes it VERY difficult, if not nearly impossible, to play a caster due to every single zone having hills. I will be staring directly at a mob in this situation, cast my spell (mob is still in the same spot), and right as the spell is about to go off, I get the "target is not in sight". This cannot be seriously working as intended, can it? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[compulsion]

Originally Posted by Smedy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Look at a spell like "Shock of Lightning" as an example, it's a wizard spell at lvl 16 that was more or less unresistable in pvp, and it gave a tiny tiny knockback. Everyone used it because of this, never any DATA that it was a lure or anything.

At higher levels it was almost always partialed, but even if it hit for 10 dmg the knockback would probably interrupt casting. In groups you could just spam it while your melees smashed healers. Solo, alternating it and a lure would prevent gate more often than not and get you the kill. It is almost useless here with no clicky refresh on gems.

Originally Posted by Dullah [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Adjusting resists shouldn't be too complicated. You just raise the threshold for resists as the knowledge of the game has increased. A lower resist threshold wasn't that big of a deal in kunark because few people ran around completely decked in resist gear.

Now we know better.

Reliable threshold for resists on live was 75~ with complete resists not being uncommon and scaling up from there. Reliable threshold for resists on r99 is almost double that at like 150~ with no complete resists and a chance for spells to still hit for full as opposed to being completely resisted (dumb)...

Just move it to the middle at 115 and then add a scaling chance for complete resists as you move towards 255 where 255 save gives around 25-50% chance for complete resist. Still way more reasonable towards casters than classic, but actually rewards those willing to sacrifice everything else for resists.

Adjusting the curve along that type of line is the best answer. Add in the +50% to debuffs in PvP like on Sullon Zek to reward group coordination and you will still see plenty of kills through Velious.

[Lowrider]

Does ducking stop your casting time yet?
or do you still have to wait it out even if you duck?