Velious 2H changes

[koros]

Rogean posted this a while back, here's the DB code.

http://codepad.org/NjMM455H

Do ((weapon damage x 2) + damage bonus)/delay and you get your approximate relative damage. It parses out very close to actual performance. Classes with higher weapon/offensive max skill get a slight hit distribution benefit favoring pure ratio

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Stinkum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone have any parses or ancedotal evidence for the level 20-50 range for:

Shadow Knight with Ebon Mace vs. Shadow Knight with Deathbringer's Rod

or

Paladin with Rod of Faith vs. Paladin with Baton of Faith

I'm a numbers junkie, even though not to the level of some of the forum goers. When I say that GFG > ebon mace it's because I've been watching my logs with gameparse since I made my SK. I don't have anything conveniently ready to share atm because my logs aren't sorted into different files for which weapon I'm using or some shit, however. I did use ebon mace and deathbringers rod for a while in the mid-30s because I had sold my old GFG for a while, and I seem to recall doing maybe 5% more DPS with the rod.

Remember that, especially for a soloing SK who is casting a lot of lifetaps and stuff while in melee, a faster weapon is going to miss out on relatively more DPS time because of spellcasts. I can cast a lifedraw (40 SK) between swings of an oggok cleaver (even with CoF haste) without EVER having the swing timer pushed back because it comes due while lifespike is still casting; I'll probably delay some melee rounds if I'm using a 40-delay or a 36-delay weapon even if I just had fbss haste though. But if I'm swinging a 24 delay weapon even with NO haste, I'm going to be losing melee time every single time I cast lifedraw (2.45 second cast plus latency and human element).

Now imagine you're rocking item haste (even just an fbss) and spell haste (even just a shaman's buff) while swinging a 2.4 second delay weapon. You're going to end up losing DPS time even casting DC or SV.

[Tecmos Deception]

I'm parsing deathbringers rod and ebon mace in CoM right now. Won't do much, but motivated enough atm to do some at least.

[Stinkum]

Thanks Tec, let us know your results. Sidebar, but it might be good to point out that seems to be mainly true for SKs. Rod of Faith is 32 delay compared to GFG's 36. Not much of a difference there. And Pallies don't have offensive spells that make sense to use in between swings when soloing non-undead mobs.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Stinkum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks Tec, let us know your results. Sidebar, but it might be good to point out that seems to be mainly true for SKs. Rod of Faith is 32 delay compared to GFG's 36. Not much of a difference there. And Pallies don't have offensive spells that make sense to use in between swings when soloing non-undead mobs.

Yeah, I'm just talking about SKs cause that's what the OP was asking about. Not sure about cast times or cast frequency of pallies when they're tanking.

[Tecmos Deception]

Ebon Mace 15 kills in stables:

/tell Bewkif Bewkif -vs- Combined: A shadow: -- DMG: 7087 -- DPS: 18 -- Scaled: 17 -- Crush: 7087 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 280 -- Hits: 176 -- Missed: 101 -- Defended: 3 -- Accuracy: 63.5% -- Avg Hit: 40 -- Max hit: 78 -- DMG to PC: 0


Deathbringers Rod 15 kills in stables:

/tell Bewkif Bewkif -vs- Combined: Plaguebone skeleton: -- DMG: 7695 -- DPS: 16 -- Scaled: 16 -- Crush: 7674 -- Hit: 21 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 196 -- Hits: 127 -- Missed: 68 -- Defended: 1 -- Accuracy: 65.1% -- Avg Hit: 60 -- Max hit: 125 -- DMG to PC: 151



Not sure why I volunteered to do a 20-minute parse when I'm claiming there is only a 5% difference. I'd probably need to log for hours with each weapon to really pinpoint the difference when it is so small.

For pure melee, no casting involved, this tiny sample does make it look like ebon mace beats out deathbringers rod (at 40 for a SK, anyways).



I stand by my claim that the rod will do 5% or more more damage than a noc blade though.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by Stinkum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks Tec, let us know your results. Sidebar, but it might be good to point out that seems to be mainly true for SKs. Rod of Faith is 32 delay compared to GFG's 36. Not much of a difference there. And Pallies don't have offensive spells that make sense to use in between swings when soloing non-undead mobs.

Delete the "non-undead" there for accuracy. Anti-undead nukes are slow-casting, not useful except to do damage on the pull, to do damage re-engaging after rooting to back off and heal while solo (assuming 45+ and not emptying your manabar to heal), or to try for a giggle-worthy killshot vs. undead mob in Fear or Hate. Paladin combat advantage fighting undead mobs is actually very nearly zero in this era (excluding a lowbie with a Ghoulbane in Unrest.)

On-Topic:
2handers get slightly better damage bonus than 1handers at this time, but not really enough to compensate fully for slower swing compared to all but the slowest 1handers. They can feel inferior due to long delay, but better ratio wins. Baton of Faith (2hb 30/40) clearly out-performed Sword of the Morning (1hs 16/27) plus Clay Guardian Shield (ac25) for me solo in late 40s. I could not kill low blues (or sometimes even light blues) reliably solo with SotM+CGS, but could with BoF.

[koros]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ebon Mace 15 kills in stables:

/tell Bewkif Bewkif -vs- Combined: A shadow: -- DMG: 7087 -- DPS: 18 -- Scaled: 17 -- Crush: 7087 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 280 -- Hits: 176 -- Missed: 101 -- Defended: 3 -- Accuracy: 63.5% -- Avg Hit: 40 -- Max hit: 78 -- DMG to PC: 0


Deathbringers Rod 15 kills in stables:

/tell Bewkif Bewkif -vs- Combined: Plaguebone skeleton: -- DMG: 7695 -- DPS: 16 -- Scaled: 16 -- Crush: 7674 -- Hit: 21 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 196 -- Hits: 127 -- Missed: 68 -- Defended: 1 -- Accuracy: 65.1% -- Avg Hit: 60 -- Max hit: 125 -- DMG to PC: 151



Not sure why I volunteered to do a 20-minute parse when I'm claiming there is only a 5% difference. I'd probably need to log for hours with each weapon to really pinpoint the difference when it is so small.

For pure melee, no casting involved, this tiny sample does make it look like ebon mace beats out deathbringers rod (at 40 for a SK, anyways).



I stand by my claim that the rod will do 5% or more more damage than a noc blade though.

Ebon mace should outdamage it. ((19 * 2) + 5)/24 = 1.7916 for Ebon vs. ((30*2)+7)/40 = 1.675

= 7% more dps... the math works every time.

[Tecmos Deception]

15 fights with GFG:

/tell Bewkif Bewkif -vs- Combined: Greater spurbone: -- DMG: 7820 -- DPS: 18 -- Scaled: 18 -- Crush: 7820 -- Non-crit rate: 100% -- Attempts: 208 -- Hits: 132 -- Missed: 76 -- Accuracy: 63.5% -- Avg Hit: 59 -- Max hit: 123 -- DMG to PC: 252


Guess I maybe stand corrected, based on these little samples! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Nogdar]

Originally Posted by kaev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On-Topic:
2handers get slightly better damage bonus than 1handers at this time, but not really enough to compensate fully for slower swing compared to all but the slowest 1handers.

I don't really agree. If this table: DMG bonus - which I pretty much trust is anywhere near reality, there's some serious difference in dmg bonus between 1 handers and 2 handers... Even if your points are definitely valid.

Anyways, thanks Tecmos for the testing, seems our wild guesses were good! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]