Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you were here, then you should already know that what I said is correct.

For what it's worth I think you most likely are correct. Although, similar to training in VP I think it had more to do with cutting down petitions to GM due to all of the first in force, and 15 man on spawn rules that exist prior to it than to actually eliminating it just because poopsocking exists or isn't fun.

Basically, I think there isn't a reason for it anymore. FTE shouts take the work out of having to GM poopsocking events.

Anyway, proof is always better than what someone recollects or says they remember. I don't even trust myself to be correct and would love to see some proof.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are certainly issues with raiding on this server, but they stem from the rules and not the player's themselves.

The best thing one can do to change raiding is to challenge the rules and not the players who operate within those rules. Semi-random repops and/or the CSR normalization of VP appear to be the most viable/favored solutions.

It give me a small amount of hope that someone such as yourself, and moreover a member of TMO can acknowledge this. If only we could see progress!

[TarukShmaruk]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't even care if you worked 50 years of your life to earn a 100 million dollars. You are morally obligated to share that wealth. If you disagree with me, then all we have here is a failure in empathy wrought by apathy, and birthed by greed.

Says who? You?

[Kika Maslyaka]

IMHO, you can't have both:

-plenty of raid content for everyone
AND
-classic EQ

These two are mutually exclusive.
This is how it was from day one till instancing was born.

Because classic EQ raids are mechanically simplistic, the most fun was achieved by getting to the target at all, rather than "beating the encounter".
When raids finally evolved, and instancing appeared, everyone happily forgot about the "getting there first" and concentrated on "killing it".

Since this is a classic server - there will NEVER be enough content for everyone. Not even for a quarter of everyone.
Accept it. Move on.

[Tasslehofp99]

If we had like 1 server repop a month, and VP training was removed...shit would be a lot better.

[Godefroi]

VP training will be removed when pathing is patched.

That's on the list of the devs, alongside with Velious.

Don't swet it and wait patiently [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IMHO, you can't have both:

-plenty of raid content for everyone
AND
-classic EQ

These two are mutually exclusive.
This is how it was from day one till instancing was born.

Because classic EQ raids are mechanically simplistic, the most fun was achieved by getting to the target at all, rather than "beating the encounter".
When raids finally evolved, and instancing appeared, everyone happily forgot about the "getting there first" and concentrated on "killing it".

Since this is a classic server - there will NEVER be enough content for everyone. Not even for a quarter of everyone.
Accept it. Move on.

Just as a fyi, nobody disputes this.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Atmas [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of people talk about what they would do if things were different so I wouldn't assume FE is some benevolent force just because they say they would be.

If tracking all targets seems like too much, how about tracking just one at a time?

That still requires relatively as much effort as tracking 24/7 everything. You still require a 24/7 tracking presence for a single kill. That's unclassic involvment, due to variance.

There shouldn't be a variance, and it should be a poopsock fest like Noble. Which will eventually turn into some sort of agreement between guilds to make things different. With a poopsock, all guilds would have equal chances. We can't have that now do we?

The way things are allow for reduced competition in the end, but claiming it's classic is just being in denial. It's easier to motivate your guild to log for an encounter when you know the spawning time, and actually have a chance at it, than burning out members for tracking for days with a slim chance to get it if bigger rosters can do the same and have twice your raid force logged under 30 seconds, because of multi account plague.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rotations generally tend to lead to bloat. Prexus' rotation for VS was, at one point, over 17 weeks long. It can lead to an overcomplicated system of oversight and qualification. Rotations can work, but they generally work best as agreements between guilds for cutting edge content. Rotations can also work for very common content that will predictably be available (such as Sky), but mixing heavily contested content with the server at large leads to that bloat.

Additionally, it is my observation that many people who argue for rotations tend to view them as morally or ethically superior. That somehow those who prefer competition are entirely selfish and that they continually commit moral trespass. Certainly, it is commendable to share content, but it is not morally obligatory. At best, an argument can be made that rotations are equally as valid as power guilds dominating content. There are certainly issues with raiding on this server, but they stem from the rules and not the player's themselves.

The best thing one can do to change raiding is to challenge the rules and not the players who operate within those rules. Semi-random repops and/or the CSR normalization of VP appear to be the most viable/favored solutions.



Translation: "Anyone who disagrees with me is an apathetic sociopath fueled by greed."

You can't expect the other people here to fairly weigh your points while simultaneously throwing this kind of stuff around. You generally carry your thoughts well enough. You're better than that.

I disagree on a few points. Sam Harris states that the questions of morality, as per what is in fact right or wrong, is not simply the case of opinion.

Values, he states, "are a certain kind of fact. They are facts about the well being of conscious creatures."

We do not think that rocks can suffer, thus we do not value the well being of rocks. This idea extends to everything we value, as per what we understand in biological complexity as per how much suffering can become impact.

The conditions of well being holds facts, Sam states. We can move through a continuum of the worst possible suffering of conscious life, up and through to lesser suffering. To move to a more idyllic series of situations.

We know, he says, that there are right and wrong answers to this space.

If we're discussing human well being (thus the human brain and how we realize and experience suffering or idyllic feeling), then to hold the power to withhold idyllic situation from other conscious beings, while keeping them all to yourself, you are, intrinsically and by definition, being immoral. I would find this hard to dissuade myself from, given the sheer amount of logical discourse Sam presents.

Is this entire concept up for differences of opinion?

Sure, but I'm still waiting for any single person to get deep enough into this ethical construct to dissuade me yet that there are not concrete rules for human morality.

I strongly recommend his book, The Moral Landscape if these ideas interest you.

Anyway from the debate onward: I like a more random respawn rate. I also don't actually mind the idea of different versions of given raid mobs.

Think about a Trakenon who can do everything he does, but now he can also aoe mez or stun.

There might be no way to know which "version" of the given raid mob might spawn. No way to be completely prepared for the encounter. Maybe this version needs you to have two junk buffs in your first buff slots, but perhaps this other one requires MR where others didn't.

I love the classic experience and I understand completely the desire to keep the server as classic as possible. I'm not in interest to change that, but if it helps keep a portion of the game more entertaining and fair for the general populace, then I think it a valuable consideration.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So let me get this right:
1st guy worked for 50 years and made 100M
2nd guy spend 50 years laying on a couch and drinking soda

Now 2nd guy want to get the share the 1st guy wealth because he has a god given right to it....

I guess this how communist revolutions happen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P.S. I am curious though - if 1st guy would have also spend the 50 years laying on the couch, where would the wealth come from?

The idea of how we from the west (and west-touched cultures) view laziness is in no small part due to the religious effects of sloth correlating to direct sin.

The idea that if you do not work, you've created your own death bed is in itself, intrinsically immoral.

These are archaic theistic views that hold no credence in an intellectually capable modern world.

We are so wholly filled with this idea of how hard we work that for many people, who they are becomes almost directly correlated to their job.

I work hard in all of the things I do, this includes in my employment. I will NEVER be my employment.

I am a martial artist. I am a musician. I am a poet. I am a writer (my degree is in English). I am a student. I am a gamer. I am a thinker. I am a science enthusiast. I am many things.

None of those things are my employment.

The answer to your question is "no". It's no because you asked if he has a god given right to it.

Gods don't exist.

Plus, this kind of conversation, while very interesting, is completely derailing the topic.