Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by W8Gamer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right?! Almost as comical as comparing the monopolization of raid targets to a real word economic monopoly of a natural resource. Or, the comparison of hoarding raid loot to that of someone hoarding an abundance of food when a person in the very same room will die of starvation.

Morgander referenced the Olympics and compared cheating in the Olympics to the immoral aspect of the current raiding system. I merely kept my comparison in frame to his. Of course I don't think a leet EQ raider is even remotely comparable to an Olympian and if that's all you got my from post, clearly this discussion is a bit over your head.

I apologize for attributing the analogy to you. I tend to skim and skip long-winded walls of text as almost every point made in these threads can and should be summed up in a few short sentences.

[Quientus]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played in the top raid guild on three different servers on live, and none of those servers had a raid system anything like we have on p1999. I think most of the individuals making these claims do not in all honesty, have enough experience over hardcore raiding on multiple servers on live to actually know any facts besides what they think is probably most accurate. (...)

I don't think you need to have experienced "hardcore raiding on MULTIPLE" servers on live to actually know any facts as you put it ;-)

I will concede, as I don't play actively on this server that I may be wrong :-)

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(...)
Live mind you, was NOTHING like p1999 for a whole lot of reasons. One major reason isn't even p1999's fault--the reason that nobody knew what they were doing those first few years. (...)

p1999 will NEVER be like live ... - one major reason why is that everything has already been done time and again, and people playing on p1999 from the lowest level to the highest know this ...

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(...)
That's a bold statement to make. If you want to make assumptions, fine, but you're saying, "I KNOW a lot...". (...)

I agree that I should probably have worded it differently, and I must admit I didn't give the wording as such much thought (as English isn't my primary language), as it wasn't meant to say that I know (as in know personally) but rather know of those that have posted in the threads pertaining this "problem" rather :-)

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(...)
For me personally, while I won't detail all my characters, I'll say I have multiple 60's with multiple epics that have been in more than one of the top raid guilds on this server at one time or another on various characters, and have at multiple points, controlled one of the top equipped characters of my class during various stages of the server's progression. To say that I'm unhappy with raiding right now because I'm not "working" hard enough, or because I want more "phat lewts", I just can't say is an adequate or appropriate analogy. (...)

I don't think anyone has anything even remotely close to what you are saying here ...

It seems to me, what you really want is more content ... - I.E vis-a-vis release of Velious (and perhaps beyond ?)

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(...)
Granted, but I'm not so much worried about if TMO gets more loot or if any other guild gets more loot. My issue again is mostly that raiding isn't very much fun these days. I had more fun back in the earlier days when we were clearing hate and fear with level 50's and every single raid wasn't just a poop-sock where we sat on vent and didn't play, or played some alt we didn't really feel like playing over a main that we had camped. (...)

Raiding wasn't fun once the encounters you were targetting got "trivial" ... - however on live "farming" these targets where necessary in order to be able to be ready for the next expansion ... - it is not such here on p1999, instead the "top guild" favors these (trivial) targets in order to gear up their alts ?

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(...)
I hate to say it because I mean no ill will toward any guild, but again being that TMO has the resources, if you get into TMO and just sock, you'll get fully geared in no time. They'll carry you and you almost don't need to do anything for it but be willing to sock. (...)

So you are saying that I could just join up now, get PL'ed and get phat lewts ??? Because that is what TMO does ?

Sounds tempting ... - however, as I stated earlier .... I don't play like that ...

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(...)
I've not even stated if I still have a character in TMO yet or not. I will flat out state that I have at least once had a character (I have many high-level characters) in TMO. This thread isn't about whining about TMO. These discussions bashing TMO are more or less completely off-topic. (...)

I don't think I said you were whining .... - just that from the other posts, it "seems" that what people really want is more content, and for TMO to "play more nice" ...

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(...)
Plus, on another note, TMO can be everywhere at the same time. They can (and so can a few other guilds), because of socking. Because on average, you often never have more than 2-3 mobs in window, and TMO sports enough members with enough 60 alts where they can typically have 30+ characters logged out within FEET of the spawn spot of a given raid mob. (...)

Seriously doubt, even with their alts logged that TMO will be able to cover all the raid mobs ... - Especially if a coalition of some sorts are working together ...

Or does this server not support FIF ?


Again Morgander ... I actually agree with you on several points :-)

[W8Gamer]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I apologize for attributing the analogy to you. I tend to skim and skip long-winded walls of text as almost every point made in these threads can and should be summed up in a few short sentences.

No problem. I completely understand. After while, I get tired of reading the same recycled argument or post and end up just skimming as well lol. So, no hard feelings. Forumquest on my friend.

[finalgrunt]

Seriously doubt, even with their alts logged that TMO will be able to cover all the raid mobs ...

There are other ways to questionnably claim a kill without a raiding force to kill it. Whether you want to use such unclassic techniques in an emulated game falls down to how one values their involvment in the current raid scene.

[Quientus]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are other ways to questionnably claim a kill without a raiding force to kill it. Whether you want to use such unclassic techniques in an emulated game falls down to how one values their involvment in the current raid scene.

Please elaborate on this :-), as I don't understand what you mean ?

As I asked, doesn't p1999 not support (outside VP) FIF ?
- Or is training another raidforce also acceptable and "legal" outside VP ?

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's comical to me that you compare anyone here to an olympian.

It's comical to me that people call both cats and dogs animals, seeing as they appear to be so different.

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by W8Gamer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right. Except the argument isn't always "that's not classic". The main argument is that the current rules in place cater to TMO. It's already been stated multiple times that the rule on training is not based on classic EQ. The rule was put in place for a reason that has NOTHING to do with classic EQ. So, I don't understand why people keep bringing up the classic argument for training in VP.

As far as variance goes, from what I understand variance was put in to place to try and prevent poop-socking. You take away variance and then what happens? Lots and lots of poop-socking which just brings about the next series of threads complaining that the current raid scene is terrible and needs to be fixed.

I don't know that you are understanding my argument. My argument is that there is nothing "unfair" about the current rules because the current rules apply to everyone. Everyone on the server can train in VP, not just TMO. Everyone on the server can park toons at raid targets, not just TMO. Everyone on the server can do everything TMO does. The problem is no one wants to. And so long as that stands true, TMO, or whoever the top guild at the time is going to have the upper hand. It's all about how far and how much you're willing to dedicate to the raid scene. You can change the rules tomorrow and for a few weeks, TMO might lose targets here and there. However, if they stay as dedicated and determined as they have been, they will eventually work out a method to maintain their control and we're right back at square one.

The first problem that needs to be addressed is this: Is the competition to TMO (or whoever the top guild is at the time) willing to go the lengths the top guild will go to get that kill? If the answer is no, then no rule will solve the problem. That's why live eventually went to isntances as that's the ONLY thing that's going to give everyone a chance at all the raid targets.

Very well stated. But a lot of people just don't seem to get it. "I want shit for free syndrome" prevails on this server.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Quientus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please elaborate on this :-), as I don't understand what you mean ?

As I asked, doesn't p1999 not support (outside VP) FIF ?
- Or is training another raidforce also acceptable and "legal" outside VP ?

FTE snipes, kiting, GM lobbying, training with unguilded toons to name a few have all been extensively used in the past. You're being naive if you believe that players here follow the rules to the letter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Quientus]

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FTE snipes, kiting, GM lobbying, training with unguilded toons to name a few have all been extensively used in the past. You're being naive if you believe that players here follow the rules to the letter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hah, people didn't follow the rules on live either ... - And I don't think people "follow the rules to the letter" on an EMU server ... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Quientus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hah, people didn't follow the rules on live either ... - And I don't think people "follow the rules to the letter" on an EMU server ... [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wouldn't compare Live and p99 when it comes to cheating / abusing / exploiting and being over competitive (but that's in comparison to my server, which from what I gather was much more civilized than some others).