Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Tiddlywinks]

That said, let's discuss how to fix the FUTURE raiding on this server sooner rather than later.

It would be a sad state of affairs to see things like training allowed in end game zones such as ST/NToV and non-classic variances to continue just because it's what makes some peoples lives easier.

Go classic or go home.

[Nirgon]

Really? You're trying to tell me that vanilla through Kunark DIDNT last 4 years?

Please, do go on.

[Llodd]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

K. I'm out. done all i could. You guys go ahead and argue till your fingers fall off. 1000 people online at 530 on a sunday afternoon not healthy. server is dying. raid scene dead. everyone quit, this ship is sinking.

If it was, I wonder how fast things would be 'fixed' [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyhow. The only thing I personally wonder about is the amount of casuals that once they get to the higher echelons quit because they see no way of experiencing the endgame. That must happen, but to what degree. The influx of new players keep the overall figures quite high it appears. If there had been true competition in VP for the past 3 years or so, would the server population be even higher than it is today, would the turnover be less.

Without being able to measure that and the population being good, there really is no compulsion on the devs to change things, and yet if what i said is true (and I really can't see the opposite being true - "hey come to p99 where you have little to no chance of seeing the endzone unless you join TMO/whoever is topdog!!") they have shot themselves in the foot somewhat.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Llodd [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If it was, I wonder how fast things would be 'fixed' [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyhow. The only thing I personally wonder about is the amount of casuals that once they get to the higher echelons quit because they see no way of experiencing the endgame. That must happen, but to what degree. The influx of new players keep the overall figures quite high it appears. If there had been true competition in VP for the past 3 years or so, would the server population be even higher than it is today, would the turnover be less.

Without being able to measure that and the population being good, there really is no compulsion on the devs to change things, and yet if what i said is true (and I really can't see the opposite being true - "hey come to p99 where you have little to no chance of seeing the endzone unless you join TMO/whoever is topdog!!") they have shot themselves in the foot somewhat.

I think that this is absolutely something that needs to be looked into. We've seen it time and again on the forums where people quit for these reasons, but those are the vocal few. How often does it happen silently I wonder? It sounds like a very hard thing to capture data on, since the most direct method would be a poll of some sort, but if somebody has quit they are far less likely to see and/or respond to the poll. That's why a lot of services ask for feedback when someone cancels or discountinues use of the service. We could check the database and compare #of accounts that were active in the past to #of accounts active currently and try to compare patterns, but that sounds like more work than it might be worth.

The only option I can really come up with for capturing this kind of data is something like a poll for current players to vote on whether or not they are satisfied with the way things are, or if they would like to see changes, but we see those polls and this thread every single week and still nothing happens despite and overwhelming majority speaking out.

As a player I could see how it could become a little disheartening to continually see nothing done. It would be nice if something were happening besides the constant churn provided by these threads/polls everyday. That's not getting us anywhere.

What else can we do to determine how big of an issue this is? Aside from making polls/continue posting in threads such as this I'm at a loss.

Anyone else have ideas?

[Zeds]

I don't see how eliminating training will have a negative impact on anyone, its not like people in TMO are going to quit if it happens. If anything its going to boost server pop quite a bit because it will open up a lot more things for people to do in the end game. Eliminating training shouldn't change anything for them anyways if they have the raid force everyone is claiming they do.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Zeds [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see how eliminating training will have a negative impact on anyone, its not like people in TMO are going to quit if it happens. If anything its going to boost server pop quite a bit because it will open up a lot more things for people to do in the end game. Eliminating training shouldn't change anything for them anyways if they have the raid force everyone is claiming they do.

Eliminating training is not something that will be determined by what players want or feel.

Training is legal do to a staff decision regarding the pathing quality in VP.

Welcome to the discussion.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That said, let's discuss how to fix the FUTURE raiding on this server sooner rather than later.

It would be a sad state of affairs to see things like training allowed in end game zones such as ST/NToV and non-classic variances to continue just because it's what makes some peoples lives easier.

Go classic or go home.

More Trolling. Perhaps you should just go home.

[Tiddlywinks]

How is that trolling? I'm almost through bothering to reply to you, you clearly have nothing to offer to further this discussions aside from sticking your head in the mud and proclaiming at the top of your lungs "It is the way it is because people made it that way for a specific reason and therefore it is not worth whining about or discussing ways that it can be changed".

Then, when someone says something logical you claim it's trolling.

I think you're the one that needs to go home, and leave the people trying to be constructive alone. Stifling discussions you don't agree with is not productive.

[Zeds]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Eliminating training is not something that will be determined by what players want or feel.

Training is legal do to a staff decision regarding the pathing quality in VP.

Welcome to the discussion.

Thanks. I'm curious, without searching for more information, is it safe to say that the pathing in VP causes too many issues with "accidental" training in its own right, which in turn would cause a plethora of additional petitions to go along with the flood of petitions from making training in the zone against the rules? Or rather, the amount of extra work required for upholding a rule change like this would cause too much strain on the current GM population, and outweighs the benefit?

[Champion_Standing]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More Trolling. Perhaps you should just go home.

weren't you banned for cheating? Why do you even post here?