Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yeah, I added my own, but it doesn't matter. I entertained an idea that does not matter. I gave you something of equal value back.

I don't see how that is difficult to understand, but I will put it like this. Our opinions on what may or may not have happened does not change anything nor does it add to or take away from what really did happen.

Your what ifs (and mine) don't show anything. People choose to believe what they want for whatever reasons. IB/TR deserved VP and they got it, the only alternative would be to push TMO out of VP and not allow them to raid it for months? This is what you're suggesting, yet you want a "fair" raiding system?

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is pretty much spot on.

However, a correction and point of interest, VP was released and it was under a mandatory "rotation" of sorts. IB and TMO rolled off for dragons and Rogean/Nilbog watched the encounters to see how they functioned.

Most people like to think it was staff giving TMO dragons/loot, but actually they just didn't want to deal with IB and TMO's crap for hours on end just to see how their dragons were going to hold up.

Let's be clear here, I'm giving you the reasons people believe this. Most people know VP is a trainable zone just so GMs don't have to answer petitions there, despite when the rule was made this never being admitted to. It is the only really logical reason.

The off-topic what-ifs are simply to illustrate why these reasons occur.

If "IB/TR wouldn't have had VP to their own on a classic timeline" or "it was the way it was and there is no reason anybody should feel slighted over it" are your only 2 lines of reason then we need to stop discussing this topic right now because we are never going to reach common ground or agree.

You seemed confused about why people feel the way they do, I'm simply trying to show you how they do.

Arguing about whether they are right or wrong is just stupid and doesn't change anything.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's be clear here, I'm giving you the reasons people believe this. Most people know VP is a trainable zone just so GMs don't have to answer petitions there, despite when the rule was made this never being admitted to. It is the only really logical reason.

The off-topic what-ifs are simply to illustrate why these reasons occur.

If "IB/TR wouldn't have had VP to their own on a classic timeline" or "it was the way it was and there is no reason anybody should feel slighted over it" are your only 2 lines of reason then we need to stop discussing this topic right now because we are never going to reach common ground or agree.

You seemed confused about why people feel the way they do, I'm simply trying to show you how they do.

Arguing about whether they are right or wrong is just stupid and doesn't change anything.

Okay, let's go with reality. You say IB/TR deserved VP and TMO didn't. Nothing would have changed the release date of VP.

So, what is your answer to a VP keyed IB and a VP keyed TMO to the problem of IB deserves it and TMO doesn't?

Also, arguing about it is stupid, however people that are wrong should be identified as so, so they don't spread their wrong information to other people.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is a cop out answer.

So far, it looks like the most popular solution is remove training from VP to allow more competition there.

Simulated patch days, I'm for this, but its a dev thing, so... its a dev thing.

I'm telling you right now if you follow what tass has been ranting about for the last... X years and remove training from vp, you're just going to get people yelling about trains, fraps'ing every pull, and sending it to gm's, who very likely do NOT have the time to evaluate every raid kill every time.

Again, i'd like to reiterate that its a very vocal minority that isn't happy with the current raid scene. Most casuals are pretty happy doing what they do now. Population is higher than ever, tons of people having fun all over the place, etc.

How is wanting the GMs, devs, server admins, and players to discuss raid rules a cop-out answer?

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay, let's go with reality. You say IB/TR deserved VP and TMO didn't. Nothing would have changed the release date of VP.

So, what is your answer to a VP keyed IB and a VP keyed TMO to the problem of IB deserves it and TMO doesn't?

Who the fuck cares? It doesn't matter.

The solution is to get in a time machine, release VP when Kunark launches, launch Velious 1 year later, and move along accordingly. That isn't what's going to happen, so who cares.

Also, arguing about it is stupid, however people that are wrong should be identified as so, so they don't spread their wrong information to other people.

Wow... just wow. You must be a sith.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once Velious is released no one will care about the state of VP, especially because I'm sure it will be fixed not long after Velious is released and major issues are corrected.

I don't think this is true. Anyone who cares about classic EverQuest rules and project1999 should continue caring. Especially if any one person can zone into VP because they are bored and train a raid attempting mobs for any/no reason whatsoever.

The rule inside of VP is a travesty and disgrace to those who come here wishing for a classic EverQuest environment. It needs to be fixed regardless of who is looking and when, for the same reason bugs need to be addressed and fixed when found.

Ignoring them is a shame.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who the fuck cares? It doesn't matter.

The solution is to get in a time machine, release VP when Kunark launches, launch Velious 1 year later, and move along accordingly. That isn't what's going to happen, so who cares.

You care. You brought it up as if this is TMOs fault and some how attribute things to Amelinda (who was only a guide at the time VP was being delayed).

So I am curious, as you brought all of this up to begin with, what is your answer. IB/TR deserved it so much and the Staff slighted them horribly by making IB/TR rotate a single week, so give an answer.

You talk about how things were so unfair and all of these what ifs, so deliver on it.

or are you going to shy away now with your opinions and "facts"?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think this is true. Anyone who cares about classic EverQuest rules and project1999 should continue caring. Especially if any one person can zone into VP because they are bored and train a raid attempting mobs for any/no reason whatsoever.

The rule inside of VP is a travesty and disgrace to those who come here wishing for a classic EverQuest environment. It needs to be fixed regardless of who is looking and when, for the same reason bugs need to be addressed and fixed when found.

Ignoring them is a shame.

Then cry about it. No one is forcing you to stay and no one is paying the staff here to do their "jobs".

Want me to fedex you some kleenex?

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then cry about it. No one is forcing you to stay and no one is paying the staff here to do their "jobs".

Want me to fedex you some kleenex?

That's what people are doing.. that is the entire point of this thread. People asking for change. Why do you feel it necessary to troll them?

Me personally I haven't played on this server in over 2 years. I just like classic EverQuest and want to see it thrive and live on. Thanks for being an ass about things though. You obviously care so much about others and their opinions.

[gotrocks]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How is wanting the GMs, devs, server admins, and players to discuss raid rules a cop-out answer?

way to go responding to a single sentence of my post.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I personally think what W8gamer posted was spot on and that it just completely went over Morganders head.

If what he said is true, then he cannot, by definition of his sentiments, concern himself with rules.

Removing the superficial non-mechanics based rulesets and continuing to be "the best", only enhances the idea of "best" by its very nature.

You, like the poster you've detailed herein, are both naturally bias toward your own cause.

Also, for all you know, I'm in TMO. I'll even go as far as to say that if I'm not currently in TMO, then I was in TMO. That's all the information I'm going to provide.