Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"well played maneuver".

Hate to break it to you bub, but when the GM who is dating a member of a competing guild lifts a suspension without informing anybody else because "she doesn't have to" we have a word for that shit: suspicious.

You're probably right though. Nobody thinks the raid scene is unfair or that the raid scene is broken.

The 5 threads in server chat about this topic that show up every week are just Tassle and a few others wanting handouts because they are bad at EverQuest and don't want to have to put in the same amount of "Effort" (see forced vp rotation/past gm-relationships). TMO is amazing and raiding is fantastic and cannot be improved.

The majority saying otherwise is clearly wrong.

The majority are ex-IB / Ex-VD I can clearly see how they'd be upset and have their own views to support their own agendas. Those guys obviously want to paint themselves into heroes and martyrs. I'm sure everything is very suspicious.

What is fair? It was never fair the entire time I raided against IB. They stole pulls, trained, lied in petitions, etc the entire time before VP was released and got away with most of it. All the while TMO took a high road approach, then we seen that the GMs didn't really give a shit and did the same shit they did, and it worked. IB got exactly what they wanted.

By your definitions, the raid scene was always broken and was never fair, so why should it be fixed for other people now just because TMO is "on top" eh?

PS: Amelinda raid suspended TMO more than another other guild, I'm sure that was favoritism.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB/TR had no say in the matter. VP was a forced rotation for the first day. Anything else you said in your post past that is just what-ifs you claimed you weren't going to entertain.

That works both ways.

IB/TR did have a say in the matter, it was only forced for the first raid. They chose to rotate the following weeks.

I didn't say I wouldn't entertain the what ifs... I said they didn't matter.

Are you being ignorant on purpose?

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The majority are ex-IB / Ex-VD I can clearly see how they'd be upset and have their own views to support their own agendas. Those guys obviously want to paint themselves into heroes and martyrs. I'm sure everything is very suspicious.

What is fair? It was never fair the entire time I raided against IB. They stole pulls, trained, lied in petitions, etc the entire time before VP was released and got away with most of it. All the while TMO took a high road approach, then we seen that the GMs didn't really give a shit and did the same shit they did, and it worked. IB got exactly what they wanted.

By your definitions, the raid scene was always broken and was never fair, so why should it be fixed for other people now just because TMO is "on top" eh?

PS: Amelinda raid suspended TMO more than another other guild, I'm sure that was favoritism.

Finally we can agree on something.

It should be fixed because this server is the best chance the people who loved classic EverQuest, this community, has at a fair and legitimate recreation of the rules and content that existed at that time.

So let's fucking do it, and fix the issues.

[gotrocks]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So let's fucking do it, and fix the issues.

Please give a bulleted list of what would fix the issues.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB/TR did have a say in the matter, it was only forced for the first raid. They chose to rotate the following weeks.

I didn't say I wouldn't entertain the what ifs... I said they didn't matter.

Are you being ignorant on purpose?

You said they didn't matter, then added your own.

Anyway, my posting the what-ifs is only to show you WHY people think that it was IB/TR that deserved VP at the time and not TMO/anyone else. If you can't, or refuse to understand that then I cannot help you in anyway, I am sorry.

I am the one being ignorant though, QED.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please give a bulleted list of what would fix the issues.

The fixes should not come from one person. I have my opinions on what are best, and am personally in favor of "make it classic regardless of outcomes". Autotune has his, GMs have theirs, and I'm sure you have your own.

It is a community initiative that needs to have full support of GMs, devs, and server staff. There have been some great ideas that have been tossed around this thread and the countless others over the past months/years.

Everyone needs to come together, acknowledge that the majority of players view it as broken/a problem and decide how to fix it.

Everyone has a stake in this.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please give a bulleted list of what would fix the issues.

This.

I know for a fact I have taken part of so many "Let's throw ideas around that will fix this shit" thread for ages now and nothing ever gets fixed.

Even if you got everyone to agree on something, you then have to get the GMs to put it in and while Sirken may be on board he still has to get Rogean to put it into effect and that's probably not going to happen.

People are still waiting on simulated patch days and shorter variance windows, how long ago was that talked about being implemented (actually think they made it possible for the windows to only become longer after that).

Which puts people back to hoping TMO will just forget everything that they (the core) had to go through to get where they are now.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You said they didn't matter, then added your own.

Anyway, my posting the what-ifs is only to show you WHY people think that it was IB/TR that deserved VP at the time and not TMO/anyone else. If you can't, or refuse to understand that then I cannot help you in anyway, I am sorry.

I am the one being ignorant though, QED.

Yeah, I added my own, but it doesn't matter. I entertained an idea that does not matter. I gave you something of equal value back.

I don't see how that is difficult to understand, but I will put it like this. Our opinions on what may or may not have happened does not change anything nor does it add to or take away from what really did happen.

Your what ifs (and mine) don't show anything. People choose to believe what they want for whatever reasons. IB/TR deserved VP and they got it, the only alternative would be to push TMO out of VP and not allow them to raid it for months? This is what you're suggesting, yet you want a "fair" raiding system?

[gotrocks]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fixes should not come from one person. I have my opinions on what are best, and am personally in favor of "make it classic regardless of outcomes". Autotune has his, GMs have theirs, and I'm sure you have your own.

It is a community initiative that needs to have full support of GMs, devs, and server staff. There have been some great ideas that have been tossed around this thread and the countless others over the past months/years.

Everyone needs to come together, acknowledge that the majority of players view it as broken/a problem and decide how to fix it.

Everyone has a stake in this.

this is a cop out answer.

So far, it looks like the most popular solution is remove training from VP to allow more competition there.

Simulated patch days, I'm for this, but its a dev thing, so... its a dev thing.

I'm telling you right now if you follow what tass has been ranting about for the last... X years and remove training from vp, you're just going to get people yelling about trains, fraps'ing every pull, and sending it to gm's, who very likely do NOT have the time to evaluate every raid kill every time.

Again, i'd like to reiterate that its a very vocal minority that isn't happy with the current raid scene. Most casuals are pretty happy doing what they do now. Population is higher than ever, tons of people having fun all over the place, etc.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is a cop out answer.

So far, it looks like the most popular solution is remove training from VP to allow more competition there.

Simulated patch days, I'm for this, but its a dev thing, so... its a dev thing.

I'm telling you right now if you follow what tass has been ranting about for the last... X years and remove training from vp, you're just going to get people yelling about trains, fraps'ing every pull, and sending it to gm's, who very likely do NOT have the time to evaluate every raid kill every time.

Again, i'd like to reiterate that its a very vocal minority that isn't happy with the current raid scene. Most casuals are pretty happy doing what they do now. Population is higher than ever, tons of people having fun all over the place, etc.

Once Velious is released no one will care about the state of VP, especially because I'm sure it will be fixed not long after Velious is released and major issues are corrected.