Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[gotrocks]

Originally Posted by gotrocks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was going to say something about how not allowing training in vp would just put more stress on an already overworked staff, but I decided to say this instead:

I guess this does need to be repeated.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only thing worth adding is how TMO went from not being able to break fear and wiping to Draco despite using Ivandyrs Hoops to the top guild. They merged with the former #2 raiding guild (Fusion/Dark Ascension etc) and began to challenge the #1 guild (Transatlantic Rampage/Inglourious Basterds etc) on Trakanon so that they could get keys to VP before it opened since it was delayed about 8 months on this server. More than half a year of mostly equal competition, both guilds were sitting on a 1 week raid suspension handed down by former GM Amelinda.

In the middle of that suspension, without notifying anybody from any other guilds, Amelinda secretly lifted TMO's raid suspension and this enraged the other guild at the time (renamed Inglourious Basterds again by this point) to stop playing on the server.

It was later revealed that a member of TMO (quickfingers aka tiggle) was Amelinda's girlfriend, and it was also revealed that Amelinda had taken bribes from members of the community that were selling things for USD.

In threads such as this TMO will typically try to stand behind their reason of "we had to play by these rules to achieve what we did, and so should you" but will conveniently leave out details such as how they came into being the undisputed #1 guild on the server. Since then they've only grown stronger.

Disregarding all logic for why the current non-classic raid scene inside of VP should be made better and ignoring all arguments for it (because the scene currently favors them and only them).

Just thought that may be worth mentioning as to why the majority of players hate the current raid scene, think it unfair, and believe a change to a more-classic and PVE friendly end-game would be beneficial and the best route.

Amelinda lifted our suspension early because of me and I even told a few IB members that it was going to happen, they didn't believe me. We were suspended because VD tried to KS our inny and put themselves on the aggro list of a train away. Inny died, dropped two eyes, i snagged one and called for anyone else in the group to snag the other eye. Reason? Because the week before we had someone ninja loot and delete an epic piece off CT that wasn't in our guild.

VD chose to park their raid on ours, chose to engage our Inny and add themselves to the aggro list of a train, and chose to hang out on his corpse. Their fraps was so full of propaganda (I had one of their members give me the link) and I showed Amelinda where they knew it was our pull and a raid leader/officer told them to engage.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most people believe this because TR/IB had been ready to raid VP months before another guild on the server had killed Trakanon. The delay with VP's release gave time for another force (the newly-merged TMO) to key up and be allowed to rotate with TR.

Most people are idiots then

The delay wasn't to give another guild time, the delay was because it was taking awhile to get the zone right (it wasn't even right when it was released).

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Amelinda lifted our suspension early because of me and I even told a few IB members that it was going to happen, they didn't believe me. We were suspended because VD tried to KS our inny and put themselves on the aggro list of a train away. Inny died, dropped two eyes, i snagged one and called for anyone else in the group to snag the other eye. Reason? Because the week before we had someone ninja loot and delete an epic piece off CT that wasn't in our guild.

VD chose to park their raid on ours, chose to engage our Inny and add themselves to the aggro list of a train, and chose to hang out on his corpse. Their fraps was so full of propaganda (I had one of their members give me the link) and I showed Amelinda where they knew it was our pull and a raid leader/officer told them to engage.

The act that got the suspension unlifted doesn't even matter, that shit is ancient history. The thing that matters now, and the reason people think things are unfair stems from the fact Amelinda didn't openly state anything at the time, and was later revealed to be Tiggles girlfriend.

That's why IB/TR left the server. That's how TMO became the uncontested #1 guild on the server after months and months of struggles, petitions, trains and all sorts of things.

Thus TMO was given an advantage and a leg-up. This causes people to claim that things such as the raidscene are unfair.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Most people are idiots then

The delay wasn't to give another guild time, the delay was because it was taking awhile to get the zone right (it wasn't even right when it was released).

People know it wasnt done intentionally. That doesn't change the fact: IT HAPPENED. Another guild got to share IB/TR mobs because of it when they were rightly the only ones who would have been ready if it were opened on a classic timeline.

Do you ever stop and wonder what the raid scene would be like if the rules were the same, but TMO never got to share VP with TR/IB and TR/IB could have just kept TMO and anyone else out of the zone via training?

Probably not, because that's not what happened. Too bad for any other guilds such as FE that are up and come, because this is the exact fucking scenario they are facing and why they think things are not fair.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The act that got the suspension unlifted doesn't even matter, that shit is ancient history. The thing that matters now, and the reason people think things are unfair stems from the fact Amelinda didn't openly state anything at the time, and was later revealed to be Tiggles girlfriend.

That's why IB/TR left the server. That's how TMO became the uncontested #1 guild on the server after months and months of struggles, petitions, trains and all sorts of things.

Thus TMO was given an advantage and a leg-up. This causes people to claim that things such as the raidscene are unfair.

The act that got it lifted does matter, because your view is flawed and the view of someone ignorant to the facts.

Amelinda and Tiggles dating had zero effect on what she did/didn't do to TMO.

Amelinda didn't openly state anything because as a GM she doesn't have to inform players of her every decision. TMO took advantage and kept the lifting of the suspension a secret. It was a well played maneuver on TMO's part.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People know it wasnt done intentionally. That doesn't change the fact: IT HAPPENED. Another guild got to share IB/TR mobs because of it when they were rightly the only ones who would have been ready if it were opened on a classic timeline.

Do you ever stop and wonder what the raid scene would be like if the rules were the same, but TMO never got to share VP with TR/IB and TR/IB could have just kept TMO and anyone else out of the zone via training?

Probably not, because that's not what happened. Too bad for any other guilds such as FE that are up and come, because this is the exact fucking scenario they are facing and why they think things are not fair.

I don't stop and wonder, because it doesn't matter. You can play what ifs all day long, it doesn't matter because it didn't happen.

IB/TR could have chose not to rotate with TMO, but they did anyhow. IB/TR being in VP wouldn't have stopped TMO from getting keyed and the VP loot advantage wouldn't of helped IB/TR in VP when TMO did enter. Especially because IB/TR was a guild that had peaks in raiding and had multiple members come and go (from breaks) after gearing up.

I can honestly say nothing would have changed other than a few more IB members would have gotten more VP loot before TMO entered.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The act that got it lifted does matter, because your view is flawed and the view of someone ignorant to the facts.

Amelinda and Tiggles dating had zero effect on what she did/didn't do to TMO.

Amelinda didn't openly state anything because as a GM she doesn't have to inform players of her ever decision. TMO took advantage and kept the lifting of the suspension a secret. It was a well played maneuver on TMO's part.

"well played maneuver".

Hate to break it to you bub, but when the GM who is dating a member of a competing guild lifts a suspension without informing anybody else because "she doesn't have to" we have a word for that shit: suspicious.

You're probably right though. Nobody thinks the raid scene is unfair or that the raid scene is broken.

The 5 threads in server chat about this topic that show up every week are just Tassle and a few others wanting handouts because they are bad at EverQuest and don't want to have to put in the same amount of "Effort" (see forced vp rotation/past gm-relationships). TMO is amazing and raiding is fantastic and cannot be improved.

The majority saying otherwise is clearly wrong.

P.S. you just admitted that TMO used knowledge only they were given of their raid-suspension being lifted in order to execute a "well played maneuver" while simultaneously stating that Amelinda being tiggles girlfriend at the time had no sway in regards to public opinion on the matter. Ya, I have difficulties wondering why anyone could think that is shady or unfair too, I mean it seems so far-fetched. :eyeroll:

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't stop and wonder, because it doesn't matter. You can play what ifs all day long, it doesn't matter because it didn't happen.

IB/TR could have chose not to rotate with TMO, but they did anyhow. IB/TR being in VP wouldn't have stopped TMO from getting keyed and the VP loot advantage wouldn't of helped IB/TR in VP when TMO did enter. Especially because IB/TR was a guild that had peaks in raiding and had multiple members come and go (from breaks) after gearing up.

I can honestly say nothing would have changed other than a few more IB members would have gotten more VP loot before TMO entered.

IB/TR had no say in the matter. VP was a forced rotation for the first day. Anything else you said in your post past that is just what-ifs you claimed you weren't going to entertain.

That works both ways.

[Buma]

The only thing I can think of that would fix this is if you log out in any raid area or where a raid target spawns your character gets ported back to a single area like maybe near EC tunnel or something if you are logged out longer than 15min. It can be done, question is where to start. To code a entire zone loc from x,y,z and have it send them to a specific spot when they log back in if after 15min.

This would certainly keep people from playing the I got technology you lose mentality. Technology in this case meaning instant chat, cell texting etc...Classic for sure didn't have these easy things for people to use in 1999-2000. You simply went by kill timers if you were lucky to know the last time killed or simply got lucky with your guilds spot checkers (monks, rogues, wizards etc.).