Raiding in P1999 is nothing like raiding in classic.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Tasslehofp99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This doesn't prove that you didn't wipe to sev with 36 or so players, because that did happen...lol it may have been 2 weeks ago but either way TMO still regularly wipes to mobs which should be trivial by now.

None of what you're posting is relevant to the discussion at hand though.

i just give u proofs of last sev kill from last week, now it become non relevant.



and this ladies and gentleman is why Tasslehoff is just a forum quest troll .

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i just give u proofs of last sev kill from last week, now it become non relevant.



and this ladies and gentleman is why Tasslehoff is just a forum quest troll .

Proof that you eventually killed him, not proof that you didn't wipe first.

Either way in my last post I said I could have been wrong, may have been 2 sev spawns ago.
But you guys deffinetly wiped to sev with 36 ppl in the last 2 weeks, that much I know for sure.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Now involved in some sketchy Twitch streaming interest with Sirken. The rest of the server sees this, guys.

wait what? how is me trying to promote the server to new people, in any way sketchy? i have said numerous times that i will accept any streamers invitation to join them as long as they stream mostly p99, and the discussion (or questions) are restricted to P99. instead of being jealous, tell your pals to invite me as well! less tinfoil accusations, more hard evidence. if you think that myself, or any other staff member is up to no good, then you NEED to send your proof to nilbog. otherwise, id really appreciate it if you would stop slandering my good name in an effort to make yourself feel better over some fictitious slight that you feel you have suffered at my hands.

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Trolling, this entire post is massive trolling. You know why Sirken stated what he did, there is no reason to assume it's for some other reason.
Keep these posts up and you'll land yourself a ban for disrespecting staff.

i dont see him as disrespecting me or staff tbh (for a good example of it, see Yendor's post above). he and i may disagree about certain things, but there's nothing wrong with that, sometimes people disagree. but i've stated my thoughts and my reasons, and until my position changes, theres really nothing left for me to say on the topic. but that doesn't mean i dont read the threads, simply that i have nothing new to contribute to the thread because ive already addressed it.

edit -

Originally Posted by ravenshade32 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One guild never dominated servers on most occasions. I played on VZ from 1999-2005 and the leading guilds most were on even par. Defiant, Ancient/Ebon Dawn, Ancient Orden, Aerist and from memory Dark Defiant Warriors might have also been up there. So one guild dominating is extremely unfair and definitely not classic.

12prophets dominated VZ for all of Classic and Kunark. no other guild even saw Sebilis loots until 12p showed up for the first ever BotB (warriors). and even then the ENTIRE 52+ crowd joined forces against them. you had Defiant, Fated, Xanit Kven, DarkDefiantWarriors, and da bashin iggles, all working together near sebilis. to say ANY guild on VZ was on par with with the 12prophets before that point is laughable. larger problem is the 2+ years Kunark has been out imo. but yes, it actually is absolutely 100% classic for the server that you played on (Vallon Zek)

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Bad analogy.

The playing field was equal to begin with. Both sides had the same pieces to use. But then when TMO kept playing, and playing well, their opponent kept leaving the game to watch TV, play Xbox, go outside, etc. Now things are unequal because TMO has all of its pieces left while their opponent is down to a king and a few pawns.

The raid scene isn't unequal just like the game of chess isn't unequal. The issue lies with the players, not the games. The chess player who stays at the game and considers his options and has studied how to play is going to beat the player who keeps running off and isn't paying attention. The p99 player who plays a lot and tracks and bought accounts/leveled is going to "beat" the player who plays casually.


Moral of the story? If you don't like getting your ass kicked in a game of chess, then find another game to play. Or I guess you could keep petitioning World Chess Federation to change the rules of the game.

This is a rather stereotypical and standard self-defense analogy against this argument, and you mistake me if you assume the guild(s) that I'm apart of, or where my intentions might lie in the idea behind change within the raid scene.

The concepts of which you speak are both in fact, relatively unethical, and universally inefficient in real world practice (keeping in mind the bridging between real world social action and online world social action, of course).

This idea you've presented are, in a nut shell, the same kinds of actions that laws are created to safeguard those without the monopoly of power; IE: Those with the greatest resources.

Laws protect the general public from monopolization and fraud. Anyone here hear about the gas wars back when gas was around 16 cents a gallon (if my memory serves mind you)? During that time, huge conglomerates of the gas industry were dropping their prices down to a level unmanageable to smaller companies. If gas cost 18 cents on the gallon to get to the pump, the big dogs could sell it for 16, just to kill their competition.

Now if we all accepted your 'theory' on "the most badass must win, leave all else behind!" We'd run into serious problems in many industries beyond gas pricing. These kinds of actions aren't legal in virtually every major nation on earth to date (again as per my fallible recollection)--and there's good reason for it.

One of the (if not the biggest even) reasons that gas prices in the U.S. are about between $3.24 and $3.94 happen to be because of the old gas wars.

You see, once the majority of competitors (the weak, as you so blatantly put it) could no longer compete (or just found it was no longer worth the effort), then gas prices slowly began to increase. Granted, gas can't just jump from .16 cents to a dollar, it's got to be incremental so as to not cause social outcry.

And it did increase. It very quickly jumped several cents in the first few months, stayed steady, then slowly trickled up and up again and again.

Now mind you, this is just the icing on the proverbial shit-cake. This little tidbit on the history of gas prices isn't the only negative thing that's ever come from the idea of "survival of the fittest".

To end this reply, I implore you--and anyone entertaining a similar strain of thought--that not everyone outside your immediate guild is less hardcore, less badass, or necessarily less of a guild than you and yours. In fact, you might be surprised to find that some of the very people in the very unit you so vehemently defend, are in fact against the very idea of which you speak.

For me, it's not about how much or how fast my loot rolls in. It's about the idea of logging in and playing the game. It's about not being forced to log out at the feet of every viable raid target to sit in their window so we don't have to be called at 3AM for a 5 minute insta-kill from a huge slew of players with gear caliber enough to vastly trivialize the encounter to begin with.

And as to answer another poster's inquiry of, "what do I propose?"

Well my personal opinions on what we should do aren't what this topic is about. This is a community issue that should be solved by the community. We should desire to work together to make this experience the most worth-while and fun for everyone, not just the, "most elite".

You'll never know how "elite" I am, and that's neither the point nor does it matter. I may have 4 or more level 60's sporting epics and then some, or I might not even have a single max level character. Either way, my goal--if I had a goal here on the interim--is fairness, fun, and a better raid experience for every single person.

And not just those who think they're entitled. Be they the elite or the non-elite. It doesn't actually matter.

[Tasslehofp99]

I deffinetly mean no disrespect to the staff, I'm just sincerely concerned for the state of the server. Ive been on p99 long enough (3 years this november) to know how things work here and I know lots of the server history. There's no reason to not want to discuss changing certain aspects of the raiding scene on p99.


In fact, I've brought it up several times when I was newer to the server and didn't quite understand the way things worked here. Nothing was really changed since then other than fte shouts, and back then the server pop got so bad that gms regularly made announcements in game urging people to donate. People don't want to waste their time playing on a server they feel is unfair.

like I said, velious coming out will help but only temporarily until some real rules for raiding are established and enforced fairly. Currently p99 raiding is like a wild wild west of fuckery.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is a rather stereotypical and standard self-defense analogy against this argument, and you mistake me if you assume the guild(s) that I'm apart of, or where my intentions might lie in the idea behind change within the raid scene.

The concepts of which you speak are both in fact, relatively unethical, and universally inefficient in real world practice (keeping in mind the bridging between real world social action and online world social action, of course).

This idea you've presented are, in a nut shell, the same kinds of actions that laws are created to safeguard those without the monopoly of power; IE: Those with the greatest resources.

Laws protect the general public from monopolization and fraud. Anyone here hear about the gas wars back when gas was around 16 cents a gallon (if my memory serves mind you)? During that time, huge conglomerates of the gas industry were dropping their prices down to a level unmanageable to smaller companies. If gas cost 18 cents on the gallon to get to the pump, the big dogs could sell it for 16, just to kill their competition.

Now if we all accepted your 'theory' on "the most badass must win, leave all else behind!" We'd run into serious problems in many industries beyond gas pricing. These kinds of actions aren't legal in virtually every major nation on earth to date (again as per my fallible recollection)--and there's good reason for it.

One of the (if not the biggest even) reasons that gas prices in the U.S. are about between $3.24 and $3.94 happen to be because of the old gas wars.

You see, once the majority of competitors (the weak, as you so blatantly put it) could no longer compete (or just found it was no longer worth the effort), then gas prices slowly began to increase. Granted, gas can't just jump from .16 cents to a dollar, it's got to be incremental so as to not cause social outcry.

And it did increase. It very quickly jumped several cents in the first few months, stayed steady, then slowly trickled up and up again and again.

Now mind you, this is just the icing on the proverbial shit-cake. This little tidbit on the history of gas prices isn't the only negative thing that's ever come from the idea of "survival of the fittest".

To end this reply, I implore you--and anyone entertaining a similar strain of thought--that not everyone outside your immediate guild is less hardcore, less badass, or necessarily less of a guild than you and yours. In fact, you might be surprised to find that some of the very people in the very unit you so vehemently defend, are in fact against the very idea of which you speak.

For me, it's not about how much or how fast my loot rolls in. It's about the idea of logging in and playing the game. It's about not being forced to log out at the feet of every viable raid target to sit in their window so we don't have to be called at 3AM for a 5 minute insta-kill from a huge slew of players with gear caliber enough to vastly trivialize the encounter to begin with.

And as to answer another poster's inquiry of, "what do I propose?"

Well my personal opinions on what we should do aren't what this topic is about. This is a community issue that should be solved by the community. We should desire to work together to make this experience the most worth-while and fun for everyone, not just the, "most elite".

You'll never know how "elite" I am, and that's neither the point nor does it matter. I may have 4 or more level 60's sporting epics and then some, or I might not even have a single max level character. Either way, my goal--if I had a goal here on the interim--is fairness, fun, and a better raid experience for every single person.

And not just those who think they're entitled. Be they the elite or the non-elite. It doesn't actually matter.

Damn sick post, good points.
P99 desperately needs more players like yoi...better yet p99 needs a GM like you.

[Morgander]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you think 'One guild dominating most of the content' isn't classic, then your server was an exception.

I considered before posting this as to how viable giving this information would be (and of course I have no proof to back up the claim, so take it with as large a grain of salt as you deem permissible), but...

I lead the top raid guild (of it's time) on my prime server of Morell Thule, and we had created and honored, a raid rotation.

We got more content because the rotation had set rules as to how you got on it for given mobs and how often you could access them, but we never had to camp characters and wait for repops, thus not having fun.

And guilds not quite as "domineering?" as ours still got access to raid content.

Take that knowledge what you will. If you believe me, I just hope it goes to clarify the at least partial contradiction in the aforementioned argument.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Morgander [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I considered before posting this as to how viable giving this information would be (and of course I have no proof to back up the claim, so take it with as large a grain of salt as you deem permissible), but...

I lead the top raid guild (of it's time) on my prime server of Morell Thule, and we had created and honored, a raid rotation.

We got more content because the rotation had set rules as to how you got on it for given mobs and how often you could access them, but we never had to camp characters and wait for repops, thus not having fun.

And guilds not quite as "domineering?" as ours still got access to raid content.

Take that knowledge what you will. If you believe me, I just hope it goes to clarify the at least partial contradiction in the aforementioned argument.

Prexus was similar in that it had 3 or 4 high end guilds through kunark. Then a group of dirt bags formed a guild called Stasis and they fucked the rotation up in velious. Following that though the servers top guilds continued to respect and even work together at times. Server first tormax kill was an open invite to anyone who wanted to come, gms even broadcast it. P99 is nothing like live in terms of raiding.


The raiding on live was more competitive yet friendly. Following the breakdown of the rotation on prexus the 3 to 4 high end guilds had an agreement that tje first guild in position to pull and kill a mob was given the first shot. Even on mobs like CT/inny...first guild in zone clearing had first shot at the mob. Here if inny/ct pops TMO zones in and disrupts any raids going on because they feel this is appropriate. This is why guilds hate eachother and there is so much drama here, the rules support bad blood between guilds and do nothing to encourage competition.

[JayN]

The server is at record pops, id say it has a lot to do with tiggles and sirkens streaming of events and interaction in Chats.

Hell Tiggles even did an interview with "The best guild on the Server" or so they claim; no malus or any shit was given. I might add it was very nice done with an excellent video production.

you just dont want to put in the effort and want something handed to you and youll use any excuse youy can to have your way, now it its just spaming "this is not classic" over and over again.

Concerned for the server, well the gooout and promote it and try and help it instead of trying to ruin it with your egotistical bullshit sir!

[Morgander]

Please allow me to make a few follow-up comments about the quoted details below, in red.

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you believe for a second that TMO couldn't split forces and kill targets inside VP and outside of it at the same time you haven't been around very long.

Morgander: Can't TMO just share?

TMO would still get the best targets every time and leave the ones that most guilds can't tackle with ample time up. It's been done before and it works extremely well on this server.

Morgander: Can't TMO just share?

This person should know this, and probably does, but either forgot or has bumped his head.

This person is someone that has no clue
the logical reasons have already been told, by the staff. You cannot see it because you did not look.

Morgander: Can't all guilds just share?

There's an interesting philosophical idea I've proposed to people in the past. Consider the following:

You've a room with only 10 people. 1 person, has enough food to last a million people a lifetime. 5 others have enough combined food to never worry about going hungry, 3 occasionally go hungry, but they won't starve to death, while the last, poorest 2 will die or starvation should nobody help them.

Now imagine if you will, that the wealthiest individual refuses to share his wealth (food) with any of the others.

Now leave anything else aside, and virtually every single person I've ever come across when asked how they feel about these people, universally agree that the only basis they have for scrutinizing each individuals character, is that the richest individual is not only selfish, but completely immoral.

Now translate food into different gains; consider cash, net worth, or just enough gum to give everyone in the class a piece and still have plenty left for yourself. The same situation transpires to similar ends: It's wrong not to share.

Now I'm not trying to bash or single out any guild here. TMO crops up because TMO is indisputably the, "richest person in the room".

So this begs the dilemma which extends to TMO and beyond: Sharing.

If you came to me in game and asked me if you could be added to the waiting list for an item I've already 14 of when you've none, you'd probably find me giving up my spot so you could have a wack at it. Why?

Well, because it's just nice. Because it makes people smile. Because it's the right god-damned thing to do.

Never in my life have I ever heard of a better reason to do anything. Ever.