Bard swarm kiting that kills other players

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I understand aggro correctly, if a level 60 bard were to snare these mobs, they should never each touch anyone they roam by...unless the bard dies correct?

From personal experience, I've never seen a green mob in Overthere that I touched aggro another mob. Only I can aggro mobs by standing on top of them (sarnaks/tigers/rhinos) or intentionally hitting/snaring them...they never socially aggro each other if I run them through each other if they are all green to me. Therefore, I don't think there is a problem with high level bards accidentally stealing mobs. If mobs were stolen, it was usually intentional or by low-hp aggro, which I will touch on below.

To my first question, I've been under the impression that as long as the bard pulls a mob by aggroing it with damage/snare, it shouldn't attack other people it runs by. Has the recent patch changed how aggro works?

Furthermore, bards should probably just not run mobs through people. There is no reason a bard should ever have to run a train by the zone lines or zone walls. Heck, even bards running mobs through other bards' mobs drives people crazy because if any bard goes low hp due to getting hit or low-hp kiting, the aggro in the zone gets all funky and mobs all run at the low hp bard if he ran through others' mobs earlier.

Bards need to pay better attention if they see people, and people should watch out if they see bards. However, this takes diligence by both sides. However, bards probably have the greater power due to speed, so just don't run over people. It's really not that hard to control a train of mobs as a bard.

Ahhhh! Zander you have solved an aggro mystery for me I think. On seafury island I have noticed that during charm kiting BOTH my pet and the mob it is fighting (when charm breaks) will sometimes start running away from me toward somewhere else. Then, after I chase them down, they will return. I'm guessing it's low HP aggro from someone else on the island who has passed through my pet/mob's aggro range at some point? Is low HP aggro really that broken?

[mreynert]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is low HP aggro really that broken?

You can kill mobs in Burning Woods from full to dead without pulling aggro because the bait is on low hp aggro. Only the higher lvl stuff requires like one camp/zone out of the aggro.

It's not absolute, but it's pretty ridiculous.

[Mendo]

I always wondered why a bard was allowed to own all of the camps in a zone? Seems like they are definitely breaking the "don't be a douche" rule. I'm always so tempted to root one of their mobs when they are running in circles. I don't because I'm not willing to break the "don't be a douche" rule. HAHA

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ahhhh! Zander you have solved an aggro mystery for me I think. On seafury island I have noticed that during charm kiting BOTH my pet and the mob it is fighting (when charm breaks) will sometimes start running away from me toward somewhere else. Then, after I chase them down, they will return. I'm guessing it's low HP aggro from someone else on the island who has passed through my pet/mob's aggro range at some point? Is low HP aggro really that broken?

Yes, low-hp aggro is quite insane. It seems to only affect mobs like level 30 (maybe 25+?). There is no way to pull a mob off someone that is low hp unless you really piss off the mob. By pissing off the mob I mean doing an exorbitant amount of damage/snaring. That is why people in Overthere can level off low hp kiting. The amount of damage a damaging bard/caster would have to do to mobs chasing someone with low hp is more than the total hp mobs in Overthere have. However, for this same reason aggro must be cleared every so often by the damaging bard or caster in zones such as Dreadlands or Burning Wood because the mobs have so much hp that the damage dealer can actually overcome the super high threshold of aggro set by low-hp.

However, I believe low-hp, although maybe classic, is a ridiculous mechanic. If one bard has his train of mobs touch another bard's train and then goes low hp, the second bard's mobs will all get pulled away assuming they are the same mob type due to social aggro, or in your case Tolkien, your mobs run away from you.

Low-hp aggro is the reason why there are so many low level 50 bards; there is very little skill involved in leveling this fast way. I mean solo AE kiting is somewhat difficult and can be prone to screw ups. Low-hp is basically easy mode. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it's important to understand how bards can steal mobs away or get people killed based on people's hp going below 20%.

[Conky]

I got my bard over 50 just by kiting but it does not mean you have to be a douche about it, I would wait for off hours to do south karana, I would dot my mobs to pull them, and if people where soloing I would leave the mobs by them alone or invite them for exp. Im a bard and saying OT, BW ect are "bard zones" too bad if you get killed or get no mobs is just dumb anyone can exp where they want, I kited over 50 levels and never killed anyone and if someone got upset at me for taking too many mobs I would invite them to group. Whats wrong with being nice? I just wish more people tried it.

[zanderklocke]

Regardless, I feel like this thread pops up every few weeks. I think it's just a sign the server is healthy and people are fighting for mobs. I mean, once people realized how fast and easy bards can level with or without low-hp, everyone began making bards. When I started on the server, I think bard was the third least played class behind paladin and ranger, and now, things have changed.

[Durka]

I really don't care if its a 'bard zone', if I am getting PL'd by a friend or if 'this is how bards level'

Really, its disrespect and a waste of time. Nobody should have to "work around" another player just cause they swarm a zone. Fuck that. If I wanna camp at "mudpit" in OT, I should have no issues. If a bard runs through, swipes all the mobs and I fight a tiger, all of that bards tigers WILL socially aggro me because I am actively killing a tiger vs just proximity aggroing a mob.

If the bard aggroes every mob in the zone, thats their deal. I cant hate on that. I can only hate on getting me killed numerous times due to lack of respect AND understanding of how social aggro works.

All of the other fluff about this being a non-issue is just defending dickheadery. EQ is a sandbox for EVERYONE to play in. If you cant play nice, GTFO. OT is not a bard zone.

It's everyone's.

[mreynert]

Originally Posted by Durka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fuck that. If I wanna camp at "mudpit" in OT, I should have no issues.

That's like saying you can park yourself in the middle of an interstate highway and the rest of the world has to accommodate you. Move 50 yards to the wall, pull there, no issues for anyone. You taking this stand saying bards are evil, they can't play their way, but everyone must bow to my wishes makes you look just as bad.

[Durka]

Umm, you are telling me to move so a bard can swarm? No, screw that. Bards need to avoid training. Simple solution. Just follow the rules.

Bards dont own a zone. The server does. The main rule is here is "play nice"

I dont care if a bard pulls every mob. If they get me killed in the process then its a problem.

[Trouble]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, low-hp aggro is quite insane. It seems to only affect mobs like level 30 (maybe 25+?). There is no way to pull a mob off someone that is low hp unless you really piss off the mob. By pissing off the mob I mean doing an exorbitant amount of damage/snaring. That is why people in Overthere can level off low hp kiting. The amount of damage a damaging bard/caster would have to do to mobs chasing someone with low hp is more than the total hp mobs in Overthere have. However, for this same reason aggro must be cleared every so often by the damaging bard or caster in zones such as Dreadlands or Burning Wood because the mobs have so much hp that the damage dealer can actually overcome the super high threshold of aggro set by low-hp.

However, I believe low-hp, although maybe classic, is a ridiculous mechanic. If one bard has his train of mobs touch another bard's train and then goes low hp, the second bard's mobs will all get pulled away assuming they are the same mob type due to social aggro, or in your case Tolkien, your mobs run away from you.

Low-hp aggro is the reason why there are so many low level 50 bards; there is very little skill involved in leveling this fast way. I mean solo AE kiting is somewhat difficult and can be prone to screw ups. Low-hp is basically easy mode. Not sure if it's good or bad, but it's important to understand how bards can steal mobs away or get people killed based on people's hp going below 20%.

To elaborate a little bit- mobs under level 20 will not work for low-hp kiting. Also, you can pull mobs from a low hp bait in OT. Get a low 30s bard and have him try to kill some of the really high hp tigers before he gets aggro. It's a coin flip at best. It's not based on how much damage you do as much as it is based on how many times you've dotted the mob. The higher you get and the more damage your dots do, the more damage you can do to a mob before you peel it off your bait.