Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by timhutton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rules are relevant to all players on the server, regardless of whether or not they are ready to raid VP. Everybody has a stake in making this server as fair and as classic as possible, not just the 2 or 3 guilds that care about raiding VP.

What do you mean by "harder"? Obviously Rogean/Nilbog/Sirken are calling the shots, which is exactly why this thread exists, to attempt to get questions answered and hold meaninful discussions.

When I started, there were very few targets and two very competitive guilds. The amount of targets guilds were able to get was extremely limited. It was this way all the way through most of Kunark. IB started to burn out, made a mistake in vp and paid for it and then got fed up with staff/tmo. Now there is an open spot for a 2nd competitive guild, there are more targets and the overall tension in the raiding scene is pretty lax.

Those questions were answered pages ago, now you just have people circle jerking pages upon pages (like usual) and get no where because they didn't get the answers they wanted.

Rogean said the rules could change, but it wasn't likely and Sirken said to continue to try hashing it out in-game.

[Autotune]

BTW, a 2nd competitive guild doesn't have to try and be top dog. All you would have to do is get a guild together and just focus on being number 2. If you aren't a threat and have no interest in knocking off "The top contender" then I doubt seriously that TMO would treat you like they did IB/VD/BDA/FE/etc. This was the problem before, least from my experience in guild chat, guilds talked all the smack that IB and TMO did with each other and TMO treated them exactly like they treated IB.

Talk the talk...

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the same, but it still requires staff to review the "tapes" and then make a judgement call based on that alone.

The way it is now, players can just solve their own issues and go about their business leaving the volunteer staff to tend to the bulk of the server's population.

Less stress for Staff = staff last longer. The server's history is littered with staff becoming too involved with the endgame and ultimately ending up with staff quitting/fired.

p99 is probably more peaceful now than it has ever been, both staff wise and player wise.

While I am all for making the GMs job as easy as possible... The players should never govern completely on their own... Especially when it is the end game of the server. A lot of greed gets involved and no one wants to share. SO instead of being reasonable with each other people simply train and try to horde everything for themselves. Instead of working things out reasonably we end up with griefing in all guilds that enter that zone. Now I am not saying it is wrong because of the current rules in place foster that environment. A lot of guilds on top with the current training rules would do the same thing. It is hard to keep a rotation in place when a lot of people in game can only see stats and pixels and desires them. They all claim it isn't the loot it is for "Fun" but if those mobs were dropping clothe armor with no stats no one would train and everyone would work together taking turns killing the mobs for fun.

I know it would cause more work for some GMs to review fraps etc.... But it is better than letting the inmates run the asylum so to speak. I mean you have played on this server Stealin...You know there is never going to be guilds who reasonably will work together for a long period of time with the current rules in place. That is why a Play-nice policy was in place on live...That is why GMs stepped in and made guilds work it out. In the end you just lose people and guilds brag about running people off the server as if that is an accomplishment.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When I started, there were very few targets and two very competitive guilds. The amount of targets guilds were able to get was extremely limited. It was this way all the way through most of Kunark. IB started to burn out, made a mistake in vp and paid for it and then got fed up with staff/tmo. Now there is an open spot for a 2nd competitive guild, there are more targets and the overall tension in the raiding scene is pretty lax.

Those questions were answered pages ago, now you just have people circle jerking pages upon pages (like usual) and get no where because they didn't get the answers they wanted.

Rogean said the rules could change, but it wasn't likely and Sirken said to continue to try hashing it out in-game.

Who brought up things being "harder" though besides yourself? I don't really understand what that has to do with this thread/training being allowed inside VP. Why are you talking about it in the first place?

In regards to what Rogean and Sirken said, neither answered the question in the title of this thread that we've all been asking for 20 pages now. Players don't know that answer unless it's been quoted elsewhere and nobody is linking it. We can only guess how/why training is allowed in VP. It could be to reduce petitions, it could be to recreate the 1-guild on top aspect of classic, it could be because unicorns came out of the sky and deemed it so.

We can sit and guess at it all day, but ultimately given that it's not classic, didn't happen on live, wasn't endorsed, and no reason was ever given by a GM (someone link something if I missed it please) the question is still on the table/relevant:

Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

Would be nice to know..

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

While I am all for making the GMs job as easy as possible... The players should never govern completely on their own... Especially when it is the end game of the server. A lot of greed gets involved and no one wants to share. SO instead of being reasonable with each other people simply train and try to horde everything for themselves. Instead of working things out reasonably we end up with griefing in all guilds that enter that zone. Now I am not saying it is wrong because of the current rules in place foster that environment. A lot of guilds on top with the current training rules would do the same thing. It is hard to keep a rotation in place when a lot of people in game can only see stats and pixels and desires them. They all claim it isn't the loot it is for "Fun" but if those mobs were dropping clothe armor with no stats no one would train and everyone would work together taking turns killing the mobs for fun.

I know it would cause more work for some GMs to review fraps etc.... But it is better than letting the inmates run the asylum so to speak. I mean you have played on this server Stealin...You know there is never going to be guilds who reasonably will work together for a long period of time with the current rules in place. That is why a Play-nice policy was in place on live...That is why GMs stepped in and made guilds work it out. In the end you just lose people and guilds brag about running people off the server as if that is an accomplishment.

True. That's why raid rules exist in the first place, to protect the people raiding/playing.

The complete lack of rules just seems messy and lazy, especially without a good rationale behind why there are none in place (it gets further complicated when you consider other portions of the PnP such as ninja looting, etc HAVE been enforced inside of VP).

[NegaStoat]

Edit - nuked out this post as the one below me explains what's up. I had to do the research on my own into other ancient threads to determine what goal the server staff was after in leaving VP in the state it's in. It makes me sad, but I understand what's going on. I'll continue to enjoy playing on the server regardless.

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You'll have to do some research for the exact news post that implemented it, I'm sure that contains information. Or perhaps your fellow players will help. I'm not here to answer your question about why every policy exists, just to fix your misconceptions.

You're still comparing it to eqlive in the rest of your post. It's not an EQLive related policy. You should stop doing that.

[Joroz]

Last time i checked it was p99 and not eqlive making the rules on this server... if they want different rules in VP then those are the rules you have to play with. It's unlikely you will makes points good enough to change anything on these forums even with the good info linked... your best bet is make your points in the game.

[timhutton]

Autotune we've been over this, and I have a direct reply to that very post:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=226

In fact I have a post here which basically outlines and states the confusion at hand:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=689

Are we going in circles? Are you just trolling?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by timhutton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Autotune we've been over this, and I have a direct reply to that very post:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=226

In fact I have a post here which basically outlines and states the confusion at hand:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=689

Are we going in circles? Are you just trolling?

I honestly didn't read many responses to Rogean, so I never seen your reply. However, from what I remember, VP is the way it is due to the fact that IB and TMO were always petitioning raids and that VP had/has horrible pathing. I was there before it opened and was there when it was opened and the months following.

I am pretty sure both of those reasons were stated, one reason VP was supposedly delayed and then forced to roll for mobs was because of all the shit slinging months prior (supposedly).