Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[timhutton]

Lol I found this map folded up in between the pages of my guide.. I think this is the map from EQTrilogy.. can anyone confirm/deny? Glad I opened this up today, might get this framed.. it's brand new [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Faerie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training was most certainly not allowed on Vallon Zek (PvP Teams).

Training was not allowed anywhere, on either blue or PVP. See 2 posts up, last image for PVP server ruling.

*edit: read your rules on sullon.. not sure where you got them from, but assuming they are legit then yes these rules would not have applied to sz!

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Zeelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically, if you are requesting the raid rule set on p1999 be more classic. Training should be allowed in any zone and GMs should just selectively enforce against it when they feel it is out of hand. If training gets out of hand, GMs force all participating guilds to /random 100 for an attempt.

This would be classic.

I'm not implying that. Obviously every server is different. Everyone had a different EQ experience due to totally different server environments. We could debate all day long which would be the most 'classic' ruleset, but there was no standardized ruleset. Disputes were handled differently on every server.

That's not true.. any training whatsoever called for immediate disciplinary action. If players could not work things out amongst themselves, then GMs would show up and divy up mobs. Aside from Sullon Zek, I believe all servers followed the rules in the PnP. See above posts.

[Vianna]

Think that just owned any argument anyone ever had that training was ignored when reported on live. They made specific rules just for it. Rogean has said however that this server doesn't have the same Play-nice Policy as live. However, I think it is time to look at it for this server. Especially with the population growing and only going to grow more with the release of Velious. It was never a part of EQ as people remember it (If you did it on live and got away with it count yourself lucky a GM didn't catch ya).

People were not allowed to police zones with trains against each other. Accidental trains always happened because no one is perfect... But intentional training when discovered by GMs was punished. It is time to make this a punishable offense in all zones.

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Think that just owned any argument anyone ever had that training was ignored when reported on live. They made specific rules just for it. Rogean has said however that this server doesn't have the same Play-nice Policy as live. However, I think it is time to look at it for this server. Especially with the population growing and only going to grow more with the release of Velious. It was never a part of EQ as people remember it (If you did it on live and got away with it count yourself lucky a GM didn't catch ya).

People were not allowed to police zones with trains against each other. Accidental trains always happened because no one is perfect... But intentional training when discovered by GMs was punished. It is time to make this a punishable offense in all zones.

I could not agree more. Anyone saying intentional training was the norm is either lying, or just very lucky they were not caught.

It was NEVER sanctioned or allowed.

The fact it is allowed in VP here is another matter entirely and has ZERO basis on what occurred during live. So don't sugar coat it. This server obviously doesn't follow the live PnP, but that doesn't mean that intentional training in VP was ever "classic" as so many from a particular guild are trying to purport.

[Vianna]

From a bug thread posted by someone there. NOTICE the very first condition.

5.6.2 Acceptable CSRep Presence in Customer Service Limited Zones

The presence of Customer Service Representatives in Customer Service Limited Zones creates two undesired situations. First, players are more likely to ask for assistance in gameplay issues from the CS staff if a CS Rep is in the zone. Second, players are more likely to blame CS Representatives for any inconvenience they may experience if a CS Rep is in the zone. For these reasons mentioned above CS Reps must not be in Customer Service Limited Zones except under the following conditions:
•They are investigating a possible Exception Incident (Abuse, Disruption, or Exploitation) at the request of a player.
•They are investigating a possible bug at the request of a player for documentation purposes.
•They are removing a corpse from an object such as the ground, a wall, a tree, etc. according to Corpse Recovery Procedure (See 7.3 Corpse Recovery)
•They are unsticking a player stuck on the geometry (in an object, in a wall, etc). The player should be moved the minimum amount of distance necessary to unstick them from the geometry.
•They are summoning a corpse from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 to a position of the player's choice within the zone.
•They are summoning a player from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 in the Customer Service Limited Zone to a non-PvP area of Arena and then back to either the zone-in point of the Customer Service Limited Zone or to another player of the player's choice in the Customer Service Limited Zone.
•They are following Policy and Procedures concerning an Under the World Case. (See 7.13)

Thanks so much for doing the research and finding this. I knew I didn't remember training in VP for a reason

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From a bug thread posted by someone there. NOTICE the very first condition.

5.6.2 Acceptable CSRep Presence in Customer Service Limited Zones

The presence of Customer Service Representatives in Customer Service Limited Zones creates two undesired situations. First, players are more likely to ask for assistance in gameplay issues from the CS staff if a CS Rep is in the zone. Second, players are more likely to blame CS Representatives for any inconvenience they may experience if a CS Rep is in the zone. For these reasons mentioned above CS Reps must not be in Customer Service Limited Zones except under the following conditions:
•They are investigating a possible Exception Incident (Abuse, Disruption, or Exploitation) at the request of a player.
•They are investigating a possible bug at the request of a player for documentation purposes.
•They are removing a corpse from an object such as the ground, a wall, a tree, etc. according to Corpse Recovery Procedure (See 7.3 Corpse Recovery)
•They are unsticking a player stuck on the geometry (in an object, in a wall, etc). The player should be moved the minimum amount of distance necessary to unstick them from the geometry.
•They are summoning a corpse from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 to a position of the player's choice within the zone.
•They are summoning a player from a verified inaccessible area listed in 5.6.2.1 in the Customer Service Limited Zone to a non-PvP area of Arena and then back to either the zone-in point of the Customer Service Limited Zone or to another player of the player's choice in the Customer Service Limited Zone.
•They are following Policy and Procedures concerning an Under the World Case. (See 7.13)

Thanks so much for doing the research and finding this. I knew I didn't remember training in VP for a reason

Nice, that really ties it all together. Where is that from?

It doesn't really leave us off any better than where we started though. All of this research and fact finding amounts to only one thing: showing that the people that keep trying to claim that VP was a trainable zone because of lack of CSR and that it happened on their server (it was for some reason different on other servers according to them) are just spewing bullshit. We all kind of knew that to begin with, the anecdotal evidence, lack of hard proof, and basic common sense more than make it clear that training was never allowed in VP or anywhere else.

That still doesn't change much because training is, for some reason, sanctioned here and the griefing is allowed to go on despite the majority of players being against it.

So I've got to ask the people that put the rule into place, why are we intentionally allowing this non-classic element to occur on this server? What is the reason? Is it to free up GM time? Is it to "spice" things up? Is it to create a scenario where only one guild gets to raid VP? What is the reason for this clearly non-classic ruling? An answer would be wonderful, even if it amounts to "because I said so". At least then we aren't using the "it was classic" cop-out and everyone knows why.

Let's get back to the title of this thread and get an answer please: Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

P.s. Before one of the RnF regulars comes around and says something like "it was all discussed and talked about in the past, go find it" I've already spent hours looking for it and found nothing, so please either spare me or help me out here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...&postcount=226

[Vianna]

From this guidebook is where it came from.


https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...D8lcWnuWktzBhg

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by timhutton [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

Because it's kinda fun. For example, my favorite PK video from my old L2 clan:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dB9Z7bwyrss

[mtb tripper]

that explains why there are no new singer songwriters