Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Sckrilla]

Man I lvled Netta up just to play in train warz with FE because I was tired of sitting around for 8 hours twiddling my thumbs and pre-camping. Then I hit 60 and FE doesn't even want to play in VP anymore... =\ They just grief train with absolutely no intent to engage dragons for hours on end. Silly.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by Wildino [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only special flag GMs did on live about VP is they will not rescue any corpse/group/guild dead there. And this was a previous warning, before any guild was able to enter in VP.

You TMO's are pathetics. No need to provide a proof that training was not allowed in the past, that's a standard EQ rule. YOU must provide a proof that's SoE/verant allowed it in VP. Where is it ?

I know, right!

[falkun]

I hear a lot of "VP is true competition" going around in this thread. Its only true competition because its the closest thing to PVP the Blue server has. I told TMO to go to Red99 a long time ago if they wanted competition, because there you can actually engage your opponent instead of the "push them off the ledge" PVP we have here (good analogy whomever wrote it). Brutillus' analogy of playing an FPS PVP with all the weapons banned also fits really well. If you want competition, go to a server where all players (and not just 3-4 classes) can engage in the competition.

The only reason the server's raid scene sucks is because the players make it suck. Even if training remained legal in VP, if the server's players were reasonable people from the internet of the early 2000's instead of 2013 internet dickwads, there would be zero problems with the raid scene without a single rule change. Europa publicly apologizing for Ragefire a month ago, BDA splitting raid targets with the server during TMO's last suspension, and the server-wide Ragefire agreement were all fantastic examples of hope for the server, regardless of what official rules exist from CSR. The problem is there is precisely one guild (and friends within said guild insist its even just a subset of that guild) are content being internet dickwads, and this server can only be as strong as its weakest link.

The best thing to come out of this thread is that I followed Ele's advice.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So yes you are using it to avoid competition ? The same type of competition used at Trak ? =)

You call poopsocking competition? There isn't skill involved its random chance.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Handull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

pathing is fucked, but it is also very predicable and consistent. does it have to be said that tmo abuses the broken pathing in vp, and dare i say exploits the pathing by pulling dragons dirrectly through walls to both kill for loot and train on other players with zero intention of killing the mob.

its hilarious how different tmo members contradict each other with regard to what constitutes acceptable training and what is just an angry loser griefing someone else

Its actually not consistent. Are you serious? Every time we pull we really have no idea what its going to do. Maybe Xygoz will walk down the tunnel today, maybe he will get stuck on some geometry and path back and forth for 15 minutes... maybe he will ninja phase through a wall and end up in the lava or on our raid. You never know.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Handull [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tmo exploited vp pathing and zone layout by using safe ledges. FE complained to the GMs, submitted fraps of the exploit in action and of what advantage the exploit gave tmo. weeks went by and gms did nothing. FE learned to use the same tricks tmo was using. FE did it better than tmo and gained the upper hand. gms stepped in and forbid anyone from using the exploit tmo came up with and was allowed to grief FE with for weeks, without punishment. same shit happened with IP exemptions and poofing clerics.

tmo says "competition", but its a joke.

Actually the no bullshit scenario was. TMO used ledges to keep the raid safe... when we pulled a mob we jumped down to ground level to fight them. We didn't pull it up on the ledge to stop your ability to train us.
FE however, used the ledges to pull raid mobs up and tried to kill them there. This was caught on Fraps with your PD attempt.

If you think this is the same thing, your mind is a lost cause.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The best thing to come out of this thread is that I followed Ele's advice.

<3

[timhutton]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If Trak was as easy as PD and you guys were sitting on his spawn every time like you assuredly would for PD, you'd probably see me make a post begging for legalized training in Sebilis.

Wow. So you actually admit to not wanting classic EQ "competition"? You would rather have griefing and training than people knowing spawn-timers and showing up with a force to kill a target?

That's ridiculous.

[FenninEQaddict]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well let's open that discussion right here. It doesn't have to be in private. This is a good forum for discussion right here. Let's see who is actually for or against making VP a true competition instead of who can train the best. I mean when the skill you brag about most as a player is the size of the train and how many people it killed...That sounds like PVP and not PVE.

TMO is skilled enough to kill targets without training another guild in VP. They demonstrate that when no one competes against them. Why not let all raid mobs be a race ? Just like the current ones outside of VP. They still have the numbers advantage as it stands on the server. They will still likely get most the mobs in VP with the number of keys they have for the zone and with variance they will likely have the larger force when mobs spawn at random times. Let's just discuss removing the aspect of training allowed in VP and future zones and make it a race like for any other mob. It is a benefit to all guilds to remove this. It means if you win the race you get your shot at it regardless of the size of your guild. If the larger guild can't field a force to win a race...That is on them and there should be no backdoor way out of it for anyone via training.

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

Also from what I hear the crying here about training your guild FE has solo griefers in VP for the only purpose of to train TMO while they are raiding. So the hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. 1 monk will never be able to kill a dragon there on this server but if skilled can sure kill a raid. So the moral high ground doesnt work here. And anyone who knows about your guilds training habits in VP when they cant mobilize a force to kill the dragons knows this.

I think the GMs, and Guides have made the best of a bad situation since VP is a drama melting pot on this server. There will always be someone crying foul there whether its TMO/FE/IB/FC or one of the other VP key'd guilds and if they run to it everytime something happens they would have no time to help the people who actually need it.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by FenninEQaddict [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

If training is within the "ruleset" and used with reckless abandon, then why is sniping FTE, which is also in the "ruleset", all of a sudden bad and not competition?