Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[xmonkx]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

See Sirken. This is why no discussion ever gets off the ground right here. No offense to TMO or anyone in their guild... Heck if I was in their shoes I would like the current rules on training in VP as well. They know that they have more numbers than anyone else. They also know that they can train with those numbers until people get burnt out in VP. TMO for better or worse likes it this way. Largely because they don't have to race in VP with the current rules about training inside VP. Which means they can raid VP at their leisure and if anyone tries to enter the zone they burn people out of the zone with hours of training on end.

Now with the current rules in place there is nothing wrong with this. The rules state they can do it so they do. There is no reason for them to negotiate anything even when the current mechanics added to the game allows for better competition. They know that if they were forced to race for mobs in VP the same as mobs outside of VP they wouldn't be able to lock as much of the current content down. This is why no negotiation will likely get off the ground with the current training rules in VP in place.


Now guys lets not argue with what was allowed on live. The current raiding rules here are different than live as Rogean has pointed out to you all. Now I only ask for a good reason from you Sericx why training should be allowed in VP with this servers rules and mechanics regardless of what was allowed or wasn't on live. You have variance with extended windows and FTE shouts in place that lets you know exactly who engages a mob first. Why would you need training at this point ? It is not a viable mechanic in the current raid scene to determine who has more skill or who wins a race to a mob. It only serves the purpose to raid interfere when you lose or are losing the race.

You must have missed the FE boat when they went into VP, guess you didn't hear. They killed Druushk with the same rules implemented now. As far as dedication and motivation to stick it out and keep getting kills is another story. And the whole "they have more trainers then us" is complete bullshit. FE in there prime had a shit ton of them. Proof is in the pudding - skill over numbers.

[xmonkx]

Originally Posted by Valere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe that would come down to universal game rules of training being against policy. For training to be OK in a specific zone or situation there would have to be a specific rule in place to allow that exception.

By your logic It's OK to exploit pathing in every zone that does not specifically state that you can't exploit pathing in that zone.

Unless, of course, I am missing some shard of logic on this point.
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Everquest Rules of Conduct, Play Nice Policies, # 6 (You may not disrupt the normal playability of a zone or area), last bullet point (Causing intentional experience loss to other players [deliberately impeding fleeing players by blocking their escape route, intentionally training NPCs on other players, etc]).

VP is a non CSR zone as it was in live. I'm not sure which server you came from but Mith Marr was train wars. Now don't get me wrong some other servers were maybe diplomatic about this but on the other hand some were not.

[musashi1612]

If this is such a problem maybe as sirken has stated Numerous times Guilds need to work together As we all know TMO will only work with those they can Obsorb. problem solver What do you do when A super power is present? The peasants revolt i see no reason why guilds like Divinity BDA IB Taken Full circle Ect for those i missed Could possibly come to a temporary Solution you take 1 guild vs 5 guilds with all good population and members with the dedication the 5 guilds should always win. In this case i would say some of the people who do not belong to the So called premier guild but yet want to see those nice shiny pixels Need to make a common raid force or alliance as you would have it. When one guild gets some mobs and loot under there belt in there so called prime there is no reason that multiple guilds could not assist in this effort as i said 5v1 the 5 damn well should win. only the people playing this server can change who the big dogs are.

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by xmonkx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You must have missed the FE boat when they went into VP, guess you didn't hear. They killed Druushk with the same rules implemented now. As far as dedication and motivation to stick it out and keep getting kills is another story. And the whole "they have more trainers then us" is complete bullshit. FE in there prime had a shit ton of them. Proof is in the pudding - skill over numbers.

You completely missed what I was saying. I don't care about the past and what mechanics were in place then. Variance wasn't always here...Extended Variance wasn't always here. FTE shouts just got added. This means that to get any mob in the game right now you have to first track it. After tracking it and seeing that it is up you have to then get a force to it to get FTE and kill it. The shout lets guilds know exactly who has FTE and for other guilds to back off. It has worked well so far from what I have seen of it. I was not complaining about the current mechanics in the game. No guild is wrong for using training when the current rules allows them to. I am saying look at the mechanics that are in the game. Training isn't needed to determine anything in any zone. It is just griefing by all parties at this point. WHOEVER does it.

Now to respond to your statement. I don't have a VP key. I wasn't around when training started between the 2 guilds in VP and honestly it has no relevance in the discussion I am trying to have. This isn't about just VP...It is about future zones as well. Now I know you enjoy playing the game a certain way Sericx because you have become accustomed to it. I am saying look at the current mechanics the GMs have put into the game. It looks like they set up the perfect competition for every guild that wants to raid for racing a certain way. Training another guild is not a mechanic that fits into the competition inside or outside of VP. It is at this point a griefing tool.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training is not a mechanic that fits into the competition inside or outside of VP. It is at this point a griefing tool.

A tool most often utilized by your new guild.

[Sckrilla]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A tool most often utilized by your new guild.

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A tool most often utilized by your new guild.

Listen... Hard feelings aside by all parties... Because it is your former guild too. As you well know guild members change frequently in most guilds. No guild is innocent of training. We all know that if you have been to more than one raid encounter on this server. This is not about what has happened before. This is a discussion about what the current mechanics of the game are and how it represents a good competition between guilds without having to train each other because we hold grudges. There is a set of mechanics in place on this server that allows for great competition by the people willing to compete with those mechanics. Why would any of us at this point want to train each other except for old grudges or griefing ? Makes no sense with the current mechanics in the raid scene.

Not one single person here can change anything that has happened over the past 3 years between this guild or that guild. We can however have a competition going forward that the current mechanics added to the game allows for without the griefing. Again this isn't about one zone. Velious is on the horizon. I think the mechanics added by the GMs show a clear picture of how they prefer the raid scene to play out. I don't think anyone can make a sound argument for why training another guild is a viable solution in certain zones. If your guild can't mobilize and win a race to a mob to kill it (All guilds here not just TMO) then training shouldn't be a solution anywhere to be a fail safe because you couldn't get enough people there.

[Swifty]

tl;dr

QQ

[sulpher01]

Tass your poll is pointless. The vast majority of people who come to these forums are the 'p99 raiding' type, and this policy benefits them... why are you thinking a poll is of any use?

Plus the staff seems to like where p99 raiding is at, variance + training = fun.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Knix

I was amazed while hearing the griefing (live in vent) that 3 or 4 IB did on 6/29 12:01am to the few TMO that zoned in, and How TMO handled it in vent, I was impressed with how calm and cool and I was kind of shocked how TMO leaders just accepted this atrocious behavior of being deliberately trained by the 3 or 4 IB, it was as if being trained on purpose by IB in VP was just part of the VP experience. Yes I understand that VP is a no-gm assistant zone, but I thought it was at least play fair zone, not deliberate repeated training by Getsome and a few other IB.

The normal first reaction to VP is terror and confusion. It's honestly quite fun though.