Solutions to the Tunnel Trainer.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. You are not dying to this every day.

Maybe because they figured out a way to avoid it. Go ahead, argue "there's no way to avoid being killed by people training NPCs."

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. You forget that on Live serial-training was a bannable offense.

Sure, and it was enforced with the same lackluster they enforced many other things. It's true that your CD Key was tied to your account, but without data on how often and how many people they actually banned, it's difficult to say if this is a valid point.

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. You misunderstand the concept of "wanting EQ to be hard." The game should be and is hard for various reasons, but scrubs training you repeatedly, on purpose, should not be one of them. I have no problem with accidents, noobs not calling a train, etc. I do have a significant problem with momentarily going AFK to pull boiling water off the stove, for example, and coming back dead and then grudgingly paying for a rez only to find myself getting killed again the MOMENT I rez. That's not "hard," that's retarded.

No, it's hard. When dealing with individuals, you have to remember that there are really only two things to consider - what a man can't do, and what a man can do. They can train you. Therefore, you need to utilize your "can" and figure out a way to avoid it. I frequently see evil-types hiding in corners, being more alert than others, FD'ing off to the side (if they're necro/sk), or only visiting the EC Tunnel when they have a sale to make, not sitting there for hours on end like dodos. Human/goodie alts are fine for that.

My question is this - why are you at the EC Tunnel? How long do you stay there? Why do other evil people who actually sit at the EC tunnel for long periods of time (who aren't necros or SKs) apparently find ways to deal with it which are somehow impossible for you?

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EC is and should continue to be one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

And it's not too hard to figure out a way to deal with it. You'll just have to do that.

If the GM's nerf Slate/Rinna or something similar which negates the problem, great - but at least until then, you should try to cope (which you claim is impossible).

[mistersuits]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My question is this - why are you at the EC Tunnel? How long do you stay there? Why do other evil people who actually sit at the EC tunnel for long periods of time (who aren't necros or SKs) apparently find ways to deal with it which are somehow impossible for you?

They're probably in EC Tunnel because that's explicitly what the GMs wanted when they disabled global chat channels... i.e. a community to bloom out of the necessity for trade? Seems like if you're going to force your playerbase somewhere these kinds of training exploits should be sorted out.

[Ihealyou]

Originally Posted by mistersuits [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're probably in EC Tunnel because that's explicitly what the GMs wanted ...

Yes, you're right where they want you. Muhahahaha

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by mistersuits [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're probably in EC Tunnel because that's explicitly what the GMs wanted when they disabled global chat channels... i.e. a community to bloom out of the necessity for trade? Seems like if you're going to force your playerbase somewhere these kinds of training exploits should be sorted out.

#1) The GM's forced people into the EC Tunnel? Quoting Nilbog, 5-23-10:

Whether the East Commonlands tunnel re-emerges as the dominate social area or another location, you should have the opportunity to forge your own community.

They want community, not necessarily EC. Saying "YOU HAVE TO PROTECT EC BECAUSE IT'S OUR COMMUNITY" is what it is - an appeal to the gods. If they leave you to fend for yourself, don't be surprised.

#2) Training "exploits"? I don't think this describes it accurately enough. It is stupid, but it's a legitimate game mechanic, not something like duping, where it's actually a malfunction within the structure of the game.

[Elissa]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My question is this - why are you at the EC Tunnel? How long do you stay there? Why do other evil people who actually sit at the EC tunnel for long periods of time (who aren't necros or SKs) apparently find ways to deal with it which are somehow impossible for you?

And it's not too hard to figure out a way to deal with it. You'll just have to do that.

If the GM's nerf Slate/Rinna or something similar which negates the problem, great - but at least until then, you should try to cope (which you claim is impossible).

First, I don't recall saying anything is "impossible." Don't put words in my mouth.

Second, I'm in the EC tunnel for the same reason 99% of other people are there: make sales, be social, find an item i've been looking for... basically, relax after a night of exping or doing whatever i was doing elsewhere. That's how it was on live, and that's how it's been here, except for the last few days. I'm sorry I don't have amazing items that I get 100 tells for the moment I auction. It typically takes time and repeated efforts for me to sell what I'm selling, or find the items i'm interested in buying for the prices I can afford. Even so, i've never sat there for "hours." Again, read my post, I looked away for 30 seconds, and it happened -- and then again, the moment after I had just paid for a rez. Sure, I could go sit in some random location in the zone and only show up to make a sale/buy, but that's hardly social (and it could happen then too). Besides, most of my communication with other players in the zone is by /say.

My question for you is: What is your big issue with people, such as myself, not wanting to deal with folks who purposely and repeatedly train, for no other reason than to be malicious assholes? Are you the one doing it? If not, then why do you care that anyone else is upset about it happening? Do you truly believe the server is a better place where pointless purposeful training is rampant? And that anyone who complains about such rampant training should just "deal with it" and "cope?"

I am "coping" just fine, thank you. Posting about an issue that annoys you does not evidence an inability to "cope."

[Messianic]

The dominant social area should be Ak'anon. That way, training would be a way for the trolls and ogres to get their daily protein.

Just saying.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

Just so this is clear. They do not have impunity. People get suspended then banned. If you are referring to people recreating accounts from various IP addresses, they are banned the same way.. the difference here is that they don't have to go buy a new account key.

They are NOT immune from punishment.

[Elissa]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just so this is clear. They do not have impunity. People get suspended then banned. If you are referring to people recreating accounts from various IP addresses, they are banned the same way.. the difference here is that they don't have to go buy a new account key.

They are NOT immune from punishment.

I was already quite clear on this point. Thus my use of the word "impunity." Because thats what it is when you can just re-create a new account and keep doing what you've been doing.

[Emoqq]

Aeolwind, thanks for looking into this. This really has become a major problem for many players lately, esp with the recent changes to corpse timers.

The sheer amount of people posting here in support of the trainer is just boggling to me.

To those of you saying you should be able to avoid it? There are many circumstances when this simply isn't possible, when your trading alt / char happens to have a good deal loot to sell and or money to buy with, etc, your encumbered and cant move out of the way. Sure, the NPC's don't kill everyone, usually what happens is it kills one or two people, then disappears, bugs out, etc, only to be trained again. Also a number of us can feign dead, or gate, etc, but to those who might be alt tabbed out, or something else, esp if the trainer specifically targets them, then there's little they can do. Even those of us who feign dead will likely die if our feign fails. Leaving the tunnel is also a pointless event. Its where the group entity is doing its business. To anyone who says to "move elsewhere", im sorry, but none of us can move 1,000+ people.

This is griefing, pure and simple, there is no motive beyond pure schadenfreude. This person doesn't give a shit what any of you think. If you've somehow been swayed to his thinking its just a further check mark in his book of lulz.


Edit: Removed a little of the vitriol. =D
Edit Edit: Nilbog, thanks goto to you too for having to put up with this childishness and try to make things better for us all. Your work really is greatly appreciated, dont let the bastards get you down.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was already quite clear on this point. Thus my use of the word "impunity." Because thats what it is when you can just re-create a new account and keep doing what you've been doing.

Oh, well I just disagree with your definition I suppose. Where impunity means freedom, I would consider anonymous training more of a "circumvention, bypass, exploit, sidestep, or skirting of punishment." Not a freedom.

:T We're doing what we can. Continue on with suggestions.