Why were we so bad during live?

[Layze]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every uber guild had only level 60 players at the start of Velious basically. Come partway through everyone was 60.

Aow quadded and flurried for iirc 1154 per hit, giving him a max damage of 1154 x 6 a round, definitely low enough for a charmed giant to survive a single max round.

Even if you used PC tanks, mallets would have made aggro transition easy, and a defensive warrior can always survive an AoW max round (also the odds of a max, no miss, + flurry round weren't very high).

Frozen moses/jesus were early Velious and used dictate to put out hella dps from what I understand (but I wasn't 100% on that), but FoH didn't manage to kill AoW with him before they got nerfed (but they got him quite low). LoS used charmed giants to tank while PCs were in range, for the month they switched pet aggro (summer 2001), and killed him.

Regardless, 5 charmed level 50 giants should put out a few hundred dps and should have been able to drop AoW after 10-15 minutes, even without melee in there. Just consistatly /assist AoW to switch targets on any given charm break.

The problem was the giants would die even through CH chains. It took a while to find a charmable giant that could survive a whole fight and sustainably be CH'd through it. You have to rememberer the giants don't have disciplines like warrior do, so they drop quite quickly. Their AC is relatively terrible also so they take big hits constantly.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Internet and computers were slower, broadband an i5's didn't exist, so there was less margin for error.

Video cards. Raids of more than, say, 50 people were so laggy it was almost impossible to play. Now I've seen 100 people poopsocking Trak lair and stuff with no probs.

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by Hamahakki [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

- There was a huge lack of urgency for killing the tough Velious mobs. The early parts of the expansion were spent exploring, with only occasional guild events in Velious. We also spent a ton of time killing classic and Kunark targets, excited by how much the competition for them had thinned out.

I think it is funny how true this was. I remember killing velk one time, "Hey velk is up, anyone want to kill him? sure.." Everyone walks over to velks lab, group up etc etc etc.

I think a lot of this had to do with the top guild(s) being tied up in ntov, sleepers, PoM (?) so a lot of the other shit was ignored.

I also think EQ was one of the if not the first really MMO raid type games where you had boss fights and strategy etc so a lot of it was all around new. You had lots of people who played MMOs for community, exploring, questing, role playing etc. Now you have a concentration of people who play mmo for loot farming primarily so you get a higher level of competition to control everything and kill shit first for bragging rights.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Video cards. Raids of more than, say, 50 people were so laggy it was almost impossible to play. Now I've seen 100 people poopsocking Trak lair and stuff with no probs.

I had to take my computer casing off and put a fan on my Voodoo 2 or it would freak.

[Lorraine]

Originally Posted by xCry0x [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a lot of this had to do with the top guild(s) being tied up in ntov, sleepers, PoM (?) so a lot of the other shit was ignored.

Shit wasn't 'ignored' , it was just priorities.
That, and noone ever had access to 5 chars 60lv and BiS geared. Your guild only allowed you to gear ONE main and in the majority of the time it was a PITA to even switch mains (unless it suited the needs of said guild at that time).

[Nirgon]

I think resists/melee damage/damage done etc all can use a review after we get the Velious content done.

Also, given the 4 years or so this project has been going, you're abouts year or so (less) into Luclin and farming only Kunark.

Trust me, I'm all for fixing invis pulling (it has other extremely important related mechanics, and gj Kanras) etc before Velious but some things I think require more research than development and can wait.

There's "more classic" with "quick" fixes, then there's the iron clad perfect formula. Some things need to get closer to classic that are in disarray, while others can be marked for perfect fine tuning later.

[Nirgon]

You can also run up melees and hit full mitigation disciplines (dodge/weapon shield) and then run them out when they fade to give breaks in the giants getting pounded

Many Velious raid targets are slowable too

[Lorraine]

Nirgon what are you arguing about?

If the community here decides that AoW has to die on day one, he WILL die on day one.
Just like the Sleeper did, when the community decided it was time to bite the dust.

The strat is flawless.
Enough people will be online (Velious release)
Enough cleric epics to res troops faster than AoW kills your entire raid.

The only thing that might prevent this, is massive zone desync due to the amount of people gathered.

[Ruenaros]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fuck, I don't even remember seeing warriors with proc weapons all that much. I remember dual lammies being the standard. Maybe a CSS in the offhand.

I remember being shocked when I started on P99 at how ineffective fast, good ratio weapons were for holding agro. The regular ole white damage on live was giving way more threat for tanks than it does here... that's how they got away with it.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Lorraine [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nirgon what are you arguing about?

If the community here decides that AoW has to die on day one, he WILL die on day one.

I won't be up in arms on a kill, nor on the charm killing going on for months. I also expect early kills on all mobs in Velious, notably, because VP gear, epics and haste (especially 41% sky haste) are so prolific here.

My argument is only that when Velious has been finished content wise, we should revisit things like aggro generation on pull (max aggro on a pull given an ability/spell), aggro generated by melee weapons, spells, pets and of course damage done and received.

The formula here feels live-like, so I think it should stay as is until other more important things are completed.

I'm just saying, it needs a look after all is said and done.

Client stability here is literally 10 times better here than the old client. We'd engage Yelinak on live with 65 players and have 10-12 clients immediately shit the bed.