Racism: the Dying Regime

[Rhuma7]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Said this before, will say it again:

It is not all about slavery. Slavery is not the sole grievance where, if you prove multilateral culpability, the grievance is nullified. It's also not just about black Americans' history. It's about how white Americans interact(ed) with non-white people, and how they used the political and economic power they wield(ed) over others for centuries.

It's also about how black families werent breaking a sweat gobbling up slaves like they were apples at a market. Which is quite interesting regardless of your current agenda in this thread.

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I want to bring to your attention that social issues intersect. The intersectionality of issues demonstrates critical thought by recognizing patterns of behavior and societal themes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_racism

Kind of like the way all of the trash from Manhattan gets dumped in front of Bronx and Queens neighborhoods for them to deal with. Or the way run-off from factories gets disproportionately dumped into poor, black areas because they have the least political representation and thus the smallest chance of raising a stink about major environmental hazards to their health. These are facts. Institutional racism and environmental concerns intersect, just as capitalism and environmentalism intersect. Similarly, class and race intersect. Class and race are intimately tied to each other, and in America, race more often than not determines the rigidity of your class and opportunities of social mobility. Again, it's not a "stretch" to say that environmentalism and feminism and racism and anti-capitalism all come together in certain ways. If they came from society and civilization and the way humans organize themselves, they have more in common than you give them credit for and have a common root.

All rage-induced flames between us aside, the world is a complex place. I don't consider anything in a vacuum, and try my hardest to check myself and be receptive to criticism if I do. I am 100% able to admit when I am wrong and will gladly amend my beliefs when I am because I place a greater value on truth and justice than being right in an argument when all cards are on the table. Do you think I find it fun and enjoyable to recognize that my history and rolemodels as a white man in America are totally fucked and riddled with horrific displays of callousness and crimes against humanity? Do you think I find it fun to disassociate myself with the ancestors on my father's side who came here in the 1600's and owned slaves? I do not find pleasure in breaking down things I should normally be proud of, but I am not proud. Other white people can be proud of their history-- I'm obviously fine with that. But we need to come together and recognize that we also have a fucked up side of history in this country that, by and large, has remained an open wound for many people. The way to pass from grief to acceptance is not to forget or pretend nothing happened. You may not have pain from your historical reference points in this country, but many people in this country do, and we need to validate that as a truth, as well.

I am not a "blame whitey" kind of guy, honestly. I often get angry at the excessive number of white people who deny the existence of racism or downplay the very real scars of our collective history. That's about it, though. I think white people can be allies, obviously. I don't think every white person in America needs to donate their paycheck to a black family for reparations or bow and grovel or something.

How do you differentiate between "grudge" and "memory"..? Isn't that kind of subjective, based entirely on which side you're viewing it from?

I'm very interest to know how you personally feel about:

1. American history as a whole, and
2. White peoples' historical place concerning blacks, Latinos, Asians, and Native Americans

This is an intelligent, well-written post. I might not agree with everything you say say but it makes me think and consider other viewpoints which is always a good thing no matter who you are. I am nothing if not open-minded. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Vineyea]

Originally Posted by mtb tripper [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The old fucks you speak of that are going to die, are veterans and heroes to this nation, and are the only true and respectable beings left on this earth

I've seen the rows of white crosses too. I have respect for the heroes and their sacrafices; their suffering, story, legacy. When I see those fields going by and the crosses move from solid rows to solid masses like the rows of seats in a movie theatre I stop trying to make a statement for about what each one of those persons died. You can't do it justice, and it isn't your place to define their lives, just as it isn't their place to define mine. They made a sacrifice, not a down payment.

[Raavak]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The international banking elite, who control the mainstream media and thus the billions of brainwashed zombies hypnotized by it, are just inciting a race war.

Racism is just another toy the elite use to keep us pre-occupied and hence, in their control.

[Malice_Mizer]

Originally Posted by Rhuma7 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's also about how black families werent breaking a sweat gobbling up slaves like they were apples at a market. Which is quite interesting regardless of your current agenda in this thread.

Ok. Goodness, where to begin.

First of all, the first slave-holder in the American colonies was indeed a freed African slave himself. Upon his death, his land and property were seized by Virginia because they claimed he was an illegal alien and therefore had no rights.

The insidious fact that you seem to be overlooking in this entire thing is that black people still owned black slaves. It didn't go the other way around, where black people owned white slaves or something. Black people who were free, wanted to engage in agriculture (what else could they honestly do if they wanted to generate an inheritance and property), and had the capital to make an investment involved themselves in the production norms as their surroundings dictated. It was not a relationship where, "You are racially inferior to me because of the color of your skin, and therefore are destined by God's will to toil and be subservient to me, the superior white man," which was the basis and philosophy of the white supremacist social order that erected and defended the institution of slavery up until the Civil War. They did not consider black people to be human beings, but rather a piece of amoral property.

In the year 1830, 13% of black Americans were free. I don't have to tell you where the other 87% were. Of the total number of slaves at that time (~2M), about .6% of them were owned by black people. Further, of the free black Americans who did own slaves, 42% of them owned a single slave.

Interesting bit of history, but I'm unsure of the point you're even trying to make. Is your point that, because black people also held slaves, albeit at a ridiculously lower frequency and quantity, that it somehow absolves the history of slavery as a specifically white supremacist institution in this country?

"It's also about how black families werent breaking a sweat gobbling up slaves like they were apples at a market."

What does this mean, exactly..? "Black families?" As though slave ownership was some sort of norm for the black community? As though freedom in general was anywhere near a norm for the black community for hundreds of years? Nearly 90% of all black people on this continent were enslaved at any given point in our history prior to 1863, and the others certainly weren't all laying around, systematically launching the Triangle Trade and establishing hereditary lines of royalty whose wealth and prestige are still visible today.

[Malice_Mizer]

There are also conflicting historical records concerning the first "real slave" in the American colonies.

There's also John Punch, who in 1640 tried to escape indentured servitude and was sentenced to life as an indentured servant (slave) in Virginia. According to genealogists, Barack Obama is a descendant of this man by his mother's side.

[Vineyea]

There does seem to be a common thread in America of not taking responsibility for what an agent or agency is clearly liable for. Think about abortion. Over the course of human history there has been made time and again this stunning discovery that sex leads to babies. Had sex? Baby on the way? There would seem to me to be an unravelling of a very obvious and forseable future that if not interfered with would lead to the birth of a new human being. When you do something about it and abort the baby you're stepping in and relieveing a measure of responsibility.

Similarly, with the understanding of how national policy affects markets and people. I guess the big debate now is over immigrant labour-- Our official stance governs the possibilities and probabilities of certain kinds of life and communities within the influence of that stance. You have to wonder to what extent we are responsible for the forseable future at the national level, nevermind global atm.

[Vaildez]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are also conflicting historical records concerning the first "real slave" in the American colonies.

There's also John Punch, who in 1640 tried to escape indentured servitude and was sentenced to life as an indentured servant (slave) in Virginia. According to genealogists, Barack Obama is a descendant of this man by his mother's side.

I am a descendant of Susan B Anthony. Give me a fucking medal!

[Nirgon]

The multi ethnic caucasians are eliminating us

One by what could have been one of us when we were younger

[mtb tripper]

pingu