Critical Suggestions for Raid Rules

[Holey]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We need to develop a system that requires no developer/GM intervention or coding.

IKR! AGREE ^

[Supreme]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

7 day +/- 7 day variance would only lead to 14 day camps and more splitforce multizone camps of the same guilds that are camping shit now..

When variance combined with camping bosses was first proposed, I was a huge detractor. I pointed out that people would be camping shit for a week straight. I pointed out that whoever had a force of people to sit in a zone longest would win. Everyone said "noooo hasbinbad, don't be dumb, people won't be that retarded.." but here we are.

Now you say that a longer variance will fix the problem, I say that it will simply lead to 14 day camps.

We need a completely innovative and player-run solution if there is to be any change. Player-run rotation, player-run boss draft, .. I suggested a weekly duel or some form of weekly pve skill test for 1st draft of bosses, but nobody could agree on anything because everyone's egos were blotting out the light of the sun.

As far as your other ideas, they are pretty far fetched man.. Nobody wants the server to be flooded with loot, the bluebies won't agree to a zone pvp flag system, instancing is retarded, much of it is non-classic or just non-eq in general (this is a classic eq server, if you want custom content, there are many other emus you can join), and all of it requires GM work / intervention, which they have stated they don't wanna do..

I think that the time is ripe for a solution, but I think it should be something that fits within the p99 vision and is player-enforced, otherwise yer just barking at the moon.

Ok who are you and what have you done with Hasbinbad?

There has to be a willingness to at least talk about it. Perhaps a champion system is a good way....

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Supreme [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are 4 guilds that are "poopsocking". Given another week that number could be 5. That will then force guilds to camp a boss even AFTER they just killed it.

The rotation needs to be such that there are standards set to even be consider part of the rotation. There also must some kind of spawn variance (which we have) and then some kind of restrictive window of opprotunity.

The problem you guys had with rotation was not that Trans was getting "spoon fed" it was that Naggy could spawn and it would be left up until it was convenient for us to kill and vice versa. This was an inherit problem that could have easily been fixed by simply adding a 2 hour opportunity window. This window was the time that was GIVEN to a rotation guild to kill the boss. I think we could actually even get the GMs to spawn raid boss and setup a "RACE TO KILL" competition. Something that would actually be FUN for GMs/Devs/Players to be involved with!

Now people are already saying but but that does not offer a CLEAR resolution as we want to be number 1 on p1999!

Well lets set some standards by which you can be ranked...Fastest kill...fewest people kill...fewest people that died kill...fastest clear...WHATEVER! If we wanted to we could do it by seasons or even have some kind of raid "league" to promote competition.

There are so many ideas and things we can do if we just take some time to think about it. I am sure with all the time spent camping these bosses that someone can think of a solid system.

It's not a bad idea, and nor does it have to be 2 hours, can actually be less, so that guilds who don't mind getting up at 4am to kill a dragon would still be inclined to do so, and those that wouldn't quite be able to muster up the force that early in the morning would simply wait the next time they're up.

As for FFA or FTE, I don't think it will work and the GMs have mentioned on various occasions that they don't want it. With poopsocking giving such a huge advantage to the camping guild there's still been instances of clear server rule violation, with an FFA or even FTE system it would get incredibly ugly and would hurt server morale.

It seems to me that there's two sides: one side thinks that the other wants a straight rotation with no time constraints on engagement and the other believes the opposing side wants a real FFA system where anything goes. I think that's not the case and the middle ground is quite vast, it's ultimately how much both sides are willing to bend that will determine the next set of raid rules. Personally, I never understood why a rotation determined by some other factor (pvp? /random?) determines the spawns for the week or even month, then a ?minute zone in or however long engagement window must be followed before guild B gets a go. This way you'd still need trackers, you'd still need to mobilize, and most importantly you'd actually have to "raid."

[Sydarm]

"Camping will only be for those guilds that the spawn belongs to but the fact is that guilds like Trans/Remedy/Divinity have no plan to get up at 3am to kill Gods/Dragons. So something like this *could* work." --Supreme

Can somebody please explain to me how a select few hardcore raiding guilds getting the vast majority of boss loot, in strict correlation to time and effort invested, is not in the spirit of classic Everquest? How is it a community and dev issue that you want all the glory for a minimum of effort?

[Straif]

There are only 2 options...
1) Everyone come together and make a rotation list
2) First Come, First Serve

Let me start by saying, I'm not in the top teir of P99 raiding.
I was back in the day on live, as well as on EQ2. For quite some time I did see it (on both games) unfortunately I managed to do that because I had shit loads of free time. When I had more responsibility and commitments to undertake, I put MMO's on the back burner. I continued to play, but only did so thinking "oh yea, I'll be raiding again soon". That never happened, because raiding is a fucking job, playing MMO's are a job... actually it's fucking slavery because the game takes your time (and money if your playing any type of game with a subscription) to RENT space in an online world.

Think about it: How much bullshit do you put up with in game? And for what? What is it worth?

If people can't play nice and share, fuck it, turn this fucking bitch into a 3rd world country. Fuck play nice rules. If someone is going to sit and camp (or poopsock as you'd say) to alert there guild that mobs are up so they can lock it down, let them.

People won't sacrifice that much and quit. People have done so in other games. This is the reason everything is instanced in every game now. EQ2 for example, everything is instanced except a small percentage of mobs, and only a few guilds lay claim to them by using 24/7 call lists and "poopsockin" the zone.

I think of it as natural selection in the MMO world. The pions will level up 50 different toons cause they genuinely like to play, but there's a massive amount of shit they will never see cause of stuff like this. The elite will lay claim to mobs forcing people out of seeing said content by perma-camping the shit. But you know what? Thats their decision, they go to those lengths, and if GMs / Devs don't see anything wrong with it, than it's the law of the land and everyone else will have to deal with it.

I am among the population in between. I like to casually play and also raid, but not in exchange for my soul sitting in front of a game (on a free server) that went out of style commercially years ago. Someone is clearly going to go to greater lengths to make sure I don't see end game and or have a good time playing. If they aren't willing to change, The rules aren't willing to change, and I can't play a part in stabbing my competition to death or assassinating my predecessor to take his or her place, I simply won't play. Because I realize the fact that I'll never see a good portion of the game, why bother play it?

Theres no money shot. If one were reading a book with 30 chapters, but you only get to read 20 and someone takes the shit away from you, what a fucking waste. It's like having a dick, lots of money, good looks and personality but being too afraid to talk to a woman and dying a virgin when you're fucking 80 years old. Makes no fucking sense....

I quit.

*EDIT*
P.S.
I'm fucking drunk

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Fear always had a full repop with CT spawning. Guild wars I always wish i saw more of, in eq.

[Skope]

Straif, even in classic there were server rules enforced by the community and at times even the GMs. There were servers with straight rotations, servers with FFA and then servers with stuff in between. The point here isn't "if you don't like it, then quit," it's that these current rules don't even begin to benefit the guilds who actually do put in more effort, and that's a serious problem.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I propose a lvl 1 gnome race. winner gets raid targets for a week or whatever.

[Straif]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Straif, even in classic there were server rules enforced by the community and at times even the GMs. There were servers with straight rotations, servers with FFA and then servers with stuff in between. The point here isn't "if you don't like it, then quit," it's that these current rules don't even begin to benefit the guilds who actually do put in more effort, and that's a serious problem.

Prexus was a Rotation server, we had GM's facilitate things... until the bitching got out of hand and went FCFS. My guild took the natural approach.. full on rape mode, pillaging shit, kicking babies etc.

You are right, it is a serious problem, but I'm new to this server and can see this isn't an issue just sprouting up. Talking about it is good, a dialogue needs to be open so things can be approached in an intelligent manner but how many threads / flames / etc have been started concerning this topic? It's like beating a dead horse.

[Skope]

I played on Prexus myself and actually remember that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ultimately both sides have to concede to get to a better solution, thus far certain sides haven't even come to the table while others have went behind the back's of other guilds to try to get something done. Without transparency and a level of compromise we can all expect things to get increasingly worse until a solution can be reached.