Velious Variance Discussion:

[Ruenaros]

fix is a pretty strong term... at this point most of us are just looking for a lifeboat

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by pasi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is actually classic. What guilds on live didn't just invis pull dragons to one of 3 spots? The 2 minute (or was it 90 second?) respawn was brutal for clearing. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess this is why every raid zone fully sees invis after VP.

I don't remember things like timing invis to hit after casts, but tricks like FD + stand + CoS to single pull were very well known in Kunark.

Whatever you say, guy.

The IB guys who did VP on EQMac would tell you otherwise.

Invis pulling classic, HEH.

You see those Sirran can't be dictated anymore in the patch notes? Glad to wave goodbye to that (I DEFINITELY CHARMED SIRRAN ALL THE TIME BACK IN THE DAY, uh huh).

[Gadwen]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I tried answering the question, but then Barkingturtle came in and stated the blunt truth without beating around the bush. The raid scene is easy to fix, its the people that suck.

It's nothing that a few months of aggressive banning and item deleting couldn't remedy, but I don't see that happening...ever.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Variance:

This is the forced randomization of raid mob spawn times. This is an artificially created solution to solve the problem of poop-socking. When it was created there was a 15-man on spawn rule-which basically means the first person to sit on RaidMobA's spawn point had claim on that kill.

The root problem with any discussion that starts like this is that whatever solution we encounter is not going to be classic.

The "First in force" 15-man on spawn points wasn't classic. To fix it (a non-classic rule) variance was introduced. In order to fix variance, we-ll be reverting to another non-classic rule an so on.

The real problem is that variance should never have been introduced to fix the 15-man rule, and the 15-man rule should never have existed either.

Things should be like they were during classic, and if that means 400 raiders from 6 different guilds know mob spawn times and show up right before a mob spawns for a chance at FTE lottery then so be it.

I agree with Sirken, the raiders should dictate how the raid scene runs. These gm-invented mechanics and rules are achieving the opposite, and anything discussed with the already existing non-classic rules in place will only do the same.

Create a classic atmosphere and let the players decide how they wish to handle things in a traditional manner. You can all show up with 400 people mob after mob for a shot at FTE lottery or you can grow up and rotate things.

Those are the only options that occured during early EverQuest. The fact there's more raiders now shouldn't matter.

[falkun]

Yup. If Server Staff wants "players to dictate the raid scene," then get out of our way. Make it strictly classic, let the social aspect of the game out. Right now the social aspect is being suppressed by Variance dictating how mob spawns happen.

Make it Classic.

[Tiddlywinks]

And honestly, Alarti, the only reason you created this thread is because you know TMO isn't going to want to sit on their ass and track double the content they now do, while at the same giving up on past gains.

You said it better than I ever could when you said that nobody was going to be able to lockdown all the content when Velious is out if there is a variance like there currently is because there are just too many mobs. So instead you come to the forums and try to start a discussion that can offer you a chance to lock the most down you can?

It's people like you, and threads like this that have lead the artificial raiding rules put in place by server staff, and created a non-classic raiding environment.

[Tiddlywinks]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup. If Server Staff wants "players to dictate the raid scene," then get out of our way. Make it strictly classic, let the social aspect of the game out. Right now the social aspect is being suppressed by Variance dictating how mob spawns happen.

Make it Classic.

Exactly.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

After all this time in Kunark with Variance, TMO wants to remove it because it'll make NToV more annoying?

I'm all for removing Variance and adding Server Resets at reasonable intervals.

Variance makes NToV a hassle instead of the raid dungeon crawl it was meant to be. I don't believe you can invis through it the same way that can be done in VP.

Due to the increased mob DPS and HP in Velious, Variance will make it so that batphoned raids have to be larger than the already ridiculous size of P99 Kunark raids. Only because you are the guild that currently kills most dragons is this question directed at TMO, at what point do you give up batphoning the instant something spawns and go to planned raids? Right now it appears TMO will batphone at any time and muster the ~35 it needs to kill any 32kHP target. Will you still batphone at 3AM to get Ikatiar (136500HP) or Aaryonar (221500HP)?

It appears TMO will do what it must to maintain dominance given the environment it lives within (simple predator/prey relationship), so either TMO must balloon in size to respond to Velious' increased difficulty, or TMO is happy with its size and would like Velious to shrink to its size.

The majority of the rest of the server has decided to say, "Screw it, we'll play at our pace regardless of the environment," and we get the amount of kills we do. Personally, the server as a whole would be better served by "shrinking," since the majority population does not want to expand to the size necessary to be abundantly fruitful in killing mobs. And it appears TMO is here with the same request to "shrink" the environment.

1. You are comparing Kunark and Velious as if they are like entities. They aren't. Kunark offered 5 raids initially and an additional 6 later on. Velious offers 55 big name raid targets, and 4 gear grind raids. When there was only 10ish poopsockable mobs (Classic/Kunark) Variance made sense. I've never liked variance but I recognized its value.

Velious Raid are largely not Poopsockable which removes the point behind variance. I know you are eager to troll and make this about TMO VS the Server but this has nothing to do with that. The entire server would benefit from lack of variance. Lets face it no matter what raid rules are applied to the server, TMO will structure itself to win. That point is largely moot.

TMO batphones at multiple times at first due to competition, so if we didn't we stood a fair chance of losing a mob. We also batphone because we have a large non-USA timezone playerbase. They should be allowed to raid sometimes too.

TMO will absolutely not have to balloon in size for Velious. But this isn't a TMO thread as much as you want it to be Deajay.

[RevengeofGio]

I'm really okay with things being completely random.....

Back when I raided on Lanys I remember things being up and casual guilds asking for the hardcore guilds to clear certain things.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by Tiddlywinks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And honestly, Alarti, the only reason you created this thread is because you know TMO isn't going to want to sit on their ass and track double the content they now do, while at the same giving up on past gains.

You said it better than I ever could when you said that nobody was going to be able to lockdown all the content when Velious is out if there is a variance like there currently is because there are just too many mobs. So instead you come to the forums and try to start a discussion that can offer you a chance to lock the most down you can?

It's people like you, and threads like this that have lead the artificial raiding rules put in place by server staff, and created a non-classic raiding environment.

Are you lost. I am proposing the removal of an artificial raid rule. TMO is in the best position to lock down content that has Variance. TMO is also in the best position to lock down content that doesn't have Variance. Knowing spawn times would give other guilds a greater chance of getting targets. Be honest troll, how much do casual guilds track? Tracking is a completely anti-casual guild dynamic.