So how about that Zimmerman trial?

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

gz not even using SYG...

The professor testified Wednesday that Zimmerman got an "A" in his criminal justice class -- a course in which self defense and Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, now pivotal in Zimmerman's case -- were discussed.

from the first paragraph:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_1...y-expert-says/

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

this is strictly a case of self defense.

I didn't think you could use deadly force on public grounds in terms of self defense, unless its a SYG state.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by moklianne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't think you could use deadly force on public grounds in terms of self defense, unless its a SYG state.

you can.

the only thing unique about stand your ground is that you have no obligation to retreat. hence, "stand your ground". and since gz was pinned to the ground, his obligation to retreat was nullified anyway.

you're not just supposed to let yourself get beaten to death in non-SYG states. deadly force is linked to seriousness of the threat, not obligation to retreat

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by moklianne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't think you could use deadly force on public grounds in terms of self defense, unless its a SYG state.

A minority of states that are NOT SYG use the following rule:

Originally Posted by Non-SYG Self-Defense Rule

1: General Rule: It is a defense that the defendant believed that:
a) he was in IMMINENT danger of being illegally physically harmed by another;
b) the force he used was NECESSARY to prevent the threatened harm; and
c) those beliefs were objectively REASONABLE

2: Deadly Force: same as above but the physical harm must be an imminent threat of DEATH or SERIOUS bodily harm, and the deadly force used was REASONABLY necessary to prevent that harm

CAVEAT: Any opportunity to retreat MUST be taken before using deadly force ONLY if retreat is possible with COMPLETE SAFETY.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by moklianne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The professor testified Wednesday that Zimmerman got an "A" in his criminal justice class -- a course in which self defense and Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, now pivotal in Zimmerman's case -- were discussed.

someone clearly doesn't understand SYG or self-defense

[r00t]

Originally Posted by r00t [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GZ american hero. did what he had to do to defend his life, and thats the american way

needs Free Zimmerman bumper sticker campaign

[moklianne]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

someone clearly doesn't understand SYG or self-defense

Or lives in a state where SYG doesn't exist and self defense can't be so easily abused.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by moklianne [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Or lives in a state where SYG doesn't exist and self defense can't be so easily abused.

I think you're not catching the thrust of the argument. SYG abuse is not in question here, at all. Sure, people are talking about it BECAUSE of the trial, but it is in NO WAY part of the actual proceedings. SYG was not used, much less abused, here.

Zimmerman's defense is as follows:

Self-defense because he was about to be murderized while pinned to the ground. That's it. He is NOT asserting SYG nor is it relevant to the case. SYG would ONLY be relevant if he had to opportunity to flee before using deadly force but chose not to flee. Even if Florida was NOT a SYG state, the concept would be irrelevant because of Zimmerman's defense. His story is that he was pinned. It is an integral part of his claims. Because his defense includes the inability to escape, SYG never enters the picture.

This is an all-or-nothing situation. He either proves that he defended himself from imminent harm while pinned, or he does not. There is no third theory where SYG comes into play.

[Samoht]

SYG has nothing to do with self-defense. SYG states that you don't have to flee. it's more like self-offense.

it's also completely irrelevant to this case.

self-defense says that if you fear for your safety, you can return aggression to try to escape/subdue your aggressor. every state allows that.

that's the defense GZ is using.

[Samoht]

also, zimmerman did try to flee*, but was ambushed by martin. still not SYG. still self-defense.

*if by flee you mean return to his vehicle.