spurs...

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GO HAWKS

Thats it! I'm going to hire jeremy to DDOS the hell out of you sirken, I knew there was something about you that just wasnt right

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Drayc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Have you ever played a sport in your life to ask a question like that? You think Jordan... Kobe... Wilt...Bill had triple doubles every game... Basketball is a rythm game if you have it you have it... Its hard to force it.

i have, and you speculate. i wasn't referring to his triple double, but to that way he played in the fourth quarter and overtime. he took over like he can and should in the second and fourth (team seems to like the third tho), and was also leaning on how he played in last years finals. spoelstra finally said stop parker to him the way he said stop durant last year. what i really don't get is how a 28year old current player has a legacy already.

[Drayc]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i have, and you speculate. i wasn't referring to his triple double, but to that way he played in the fourth quarter and overtime. he took over like he can and should in the second and fourth (team seems to like the third tho), and was also leaning on how he played in last years finals. spoelstra finally said stop parker to him the way he said stop durant last year. what i really don't get is how a 28year old current player has a legacy already.

Well, I get what you are saying about the legacy thing... I mean people were talking about it before he won anything. But... the fact is everyone knows he is great, how great that is yet to be seen. No one gets as much hate and love at the same time if they are not great.

He came into the nba out of highschool with a 100 million dollar contract before he set foot on the floor. He has an absurd nike deal, one that may only be passed by Wades Lining Deal, if his shoes are ever released in the US.

Off topic, one thing that still gets me is that people hate him for doing the "decision" the way he did. Yet people either don't care or don't know that his little live ESPN The Decision special raised over 6 million dollars for various charities "it is known". It was a whole special put together by agent Ari Emanuel with ESPN.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Drayc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, I get what you are saying about the legacy thing... I mean people were talking about it before he won anything. But... the fact is everyone knows he is great, how great that is yet to be seen. No one gets as much hate and love at the same time if they are not great.

He came into the nba out of highschool with a 100 million dollar contract before he set foot on the floor. He has an absurd nike deal, one that may only be passed by Wades Lining Deal, if his shoes are ever released in the US.

Off topic, one thing that still gets me is that people hate him for doing the "decision" the way he did. Yet people either don't care or don't know that his little live ESPN The Decision special raised over 6 million dollars for various charities "it is known". It was a whole special put together by agent Ari Emanuel with ESPN.

the media needs its stories to dish for ratings/revenue. they hyped him from the start and created the new overman for basketball, and he gave it all the finger and decided to play with his friends. fully supported him then and now cause he's having fun, winning more, and raking in tons of cash (proly literally if weighed out). that whole episode was bs grandstanding from anyone who didn't want to read the reality, but consume the story...my cynical two cents on that. will he be better than jordan?, depends on how people want to see the comparison, and bill russell is the best ever. the rings argument...robert horry has more rings than jordan...

[Drayc]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the media needs its stories to dish for ratings/revenue. they hyped him from the start and created the new overman for basketball, and he gave it all the finger and decided to play with his friends. fully supported him then and now cause he's having fun, winning more, and raking in tons of cash (proly literally if weighed out). that whole episode was bs grandstanding from anyone who didn't want to read the reality, but consume the story...my cynical two cents on that. will he be better than jordan?, depends on how people want to see the comparison, and bill russell is the best ever. the rings argument...robert horry has more rings than jordan...

I was listening to an Open Court discussion on NBA TV where they were talking about Legacies, I think that was the name of the episode "Legacy" where one of the guys said it's almost impossible to compare players to players when they have never played against one another.

Instead he went on to say that the best player argument is generational, IE people that watched Michael is his prime will always think he is the best. A lot of us now watched Michael.. but lets say 15 years... 25 years from now... will Michael still be held that high? who knows.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by Drayc [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was listening to an Open Court discussion on NBA TV where they were talking about Legacies, I think that was the name of the episode "Legacy" where one of the guys said it's almost impossible to compare players to players when they have never played against one another.

Instead he went on to say that the best player argument is generational, IE people that watched Michael is his prime will always think he is the best. A lot of us now watched Michael.. but lets say 15 years... 25 years from now... will Michael still be held that high? who knows.

that's a good point. and true for a lot. we have recordings, but the mood or feel of the players in the moment isn't as authentic as it was while watching live. we're not going to get the feel of russell playing against wilt, but the sense of history is important to have. inherently, the arguments have no validity because it's a subjective operating frame, but it's fun to discuss.

[stormlord]

Fooking sh**. I wanted the Spurs to win so bad. I know it'd be the fifth or the sixth championship for Duncan, but I have a sweeet spot for the Spurs. They're a TEAM and they're top notch. Evenso, Lebron is a much better team leader than Micheal Jordan ever was. So I have to hand it to Miami. YOu guys did good. But the Spurs played tough for SEVEN games and I think both teams deserve a huge hand of applause for their pursuit of excellence, passion, teamwork and good sportmanship.

[stormlord]

Originally Posted by Ahldagor [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that's a good point. and true for a lot. we have recordings, but the mood or feel of the players in the moment isn't as authentic as it was while watching live. we're not going to get the feel of russell playing against wilt, but the sense of history is important to have. inherently, the arguments have no validity because it's a subjective operating frame, but it's fun to discuss.

It's hard and harder to compare players from different eras because the rules change. So even already it's difficult to compare a shooting guard today to the likes of Micheal Jordan. And then even moreso it's difficult to compare another position in the lineup to the position Micheal Jordan was popularly known for IN A SINGLE ERA.

Many people do not know that Micheal Jordan is #2 - only under Wilt Chamberlain - in consecutive all time triple doubles. This happened during a short time in the 1988-89 season when he was the starting point guard for the Chicago Bulls. Only Magic Johnson had more triple doubles in the 1988-89 season.

Another thing people don't popularly know is that MIcheal Jordan was an all defensive player of the year in 1987-88 and there're only 17 players on that list over the past 30 years. MJ was a stellar shot blocker and stealer. This is really what made him so famous. Otherwise, he'd just be a ball hog that's a good shooter.

I don't think you can compare him to Lebron, but I do think I like Lebron more. Why? Because I think Lebron is probably a better passer and has served the role as leader at a higher standard. The thing about Micheal is he had a very hard exterior. He was not a natural leader, but was pushed into the role somewhat.

I researched Micheal Jordan for a while some time ago. I came away with huge respect for him. His stats, viewable on nba.com, are monumental. Clearly, the man was much more than a ball hog. In fact, if hte stats are to be believed, he blows away Kobe Bryant. It's not even an argument.

But as I already said, with how things change, it makes stat comparisons difficult.

Another great is Magic Johnson. There's a reason these names float around, like Wilt Charmlain or Larry Bird.

One player I love to watch is James Harden. Good player. I wish he'd stayed with the Thunder.

[Ahldagor]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's hard and harder to compare players from different eras because the rules change. So even already it's difficult to compare a shooting guard today to the likes of Micheal Jordan. And then even moreso it's difficult to compare another position in the lineup to the position Micheal Jordan was popularly known for IN A SINGLE ERA.

Many people do not know that Micheal Jordan is #2 - only under Wilt Chamberlain - in consecutive all time triple doubles. This happened during a short time in the 1988-89 season when he was the starting point guard for the Chicago Bulls. Only Magic Johnson had more triple doubles in the 1988-89 season.

Another thing people don't popularly know is that MIcheal Jordan was an all defensive player of the year in 1987-88 and there're only 17 players on that list over the past 30 years. MJ was a stellar shot blocker and stealer. This is really what made him so famous. Otherwise, he'd just be a ball hog that's a good shooter.

I don't think you can compare him to Lebron, but I do think I like Lebron more. Why? Because I think Lebron is probably a better passer and has served the role as leader at a higher standard. The thing about Micheal is he had a very hard exterior. He was not a natural leader, but was pushed into the role somewhat.

I researched Micheal Jordan for a while some time ago. I came away with huge respect for him. His stats, viewable on nba.com, are monumental. Clearly, the man was much more than a ball hog. In fact, if hte stats are to be believed, he blows away Kobe Bryant. It's not even an argument.

But as I already said, with how things change, it makes stat comparisons difficult.

Another great is Magic Johnson. There's a reason these names float around, like Wilt Charmlain or Larry Bird.

One player I love to watch is James Harden. Good player. I wish he'd stayed with the Thunder.

The rule changes are very important. Not many folks know that Wilt scored that 100 without the three point line. I think the 24 was implemented then though. Very much agree with you on the stats and era synchronicity. There's a context that isn't taken into account with most of the player comparisons. Jordan is the best that's played, for now, and I think that that's what people do and don't like.

I started really watching basketball when Duncan was starting out, and now have seen his career arc ( one for the thumb would be nice for him but they weren't stopping James and Wade) which I think is what you were referring to earlier with the generational point and how folks watched.

Harden, Durant and James are the ones I keep an eye on atm, and feel kind of spoiled having those three; but it's probably similar to the 80's when Bird and Johnson were sharing the league. And that Harden trade was terrible, but awesome for the Rockets.

[diplo]

Originally Posted by stormlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fooking sh**. I wanted the Spurs to win so bad. I know it'd be the fifth or the sixth championship for Duncan, but I have a sweeet spot for the Spurs. They're a TEAM and they're top notch. Evenso, Lebron is a much better team leader than Micheal Jordan ever was. So I have to hand it to Miami. YOu guys did good. But the Spurs played tough for SEVEN games and I think both teams deserve a huge hand of applause for their pursuit of excellence, passion, teamwork and good sportmanship.

wait what? do you know what you're talking about or are we thinking of two separate things here? Jordan was known to get the best from his teammates. he was hard on them yes, he yelled at them yes, but he made sure that everyone played with as much intensity as him every night they are on the floor. jordan played hard all 48 minutes of the game. lebron still has a nagging tendency to sit on auto-pilot, which reflects on his teammates. honestly, the heat should have not lost so many game 1's of the playoffs. they could have made this much easier on themselves.