Miscellaneous: Reclaim Energy on Mage Focus Items

[Jify]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im sure Zilo could abuse his wolf procs for mana as well.

While I do agree that Zilo is an abuser, I don't believe this would work. Reclaim energy should be based on the HP of the pet that is being reclaimed. (I can't seem to find anything to back this, but I did note that the Improved Reclaim Energy AA increases mana returned from 75% to 95% of the cost. Since Zilo's pet "cost" zero, he'd still get no return)

Since Zilo's doggy only has 1 hp, he'd get a very poor return for reclaiming it.

This however, may not be enough to stop Zilo. He's been known to slaughter dogs, kittens, and small children alike for the thrill alone.

Also, to support your agruement, the below was taken from a classic "shaman" FoH website. (http://www.notacult.com/guide_trollshaman.html)

Shovel of Ponz (general inventory)

Yes, I know it's a magician only item, but Shaman can use the effect of reclaim energy from a general inventory slot. Reclaim Energy kills your pet, but gives you mana (depending on the amount of HP your pet has). Awesome for emergencies when you need an extra 200 mana, or for when you need to zone and your pet would die anyway.

[guineapig]

In any case, you would probably regain mana faster by simply meditating. Pet casting times are anything but squick.

[rioisk]

guys, there's a bunch of non-classic things going on here. It's actually a load of crap too because they "fix" the XP (royally f'ing over people) but don't fix the nice perks like this.

1) Reclaim energy
2) Sword of Rune proc on all mobs
3) reclaim energy on eye of zomm

[girth]

Originally Posted by rioisk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

guys, there's a bunch of non-classic things going on here. It's actually a load of crap too because they "fix" the XP (royally f'ing over people) but don't fix the nice perks like this.

1) Reclaim energy
2) Sword of Rune proc on all mobs
3) reclaim energy on eye of zomm

They don't implement all bugs/exploits like they were in classic just because it was in classic. You should know that by now.

[Gorroth]

Jify is right, the mana gained back is proportional to the HP of the pet, which makes using the spell to regain mana rather ineffective*.

The argument about classes who lack reclaim energy already have means of getting mana back fast doesn't make sense. Even enchanters have reclaim energy and they use their pets far less than shamans and they don't have a problem getting mana back. Shamans using a pet focus to reclaim their pets would mostly be a way to mitigate the enormous mana drain of trying to get a decent pet; at 500 mana a cast, medding for 15mn until you finally get a good pet isn't fun, it's a damn chore.

Originally Posted by dali_lb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe it was usable from inventory for classes not supposed to have access to it. Many things was. that was the reason they removed eg. the guise from drops and made a new item. letting those that already got the original one keep it, as it weren't really killing game ballance, just a minor effect that the dev's didn't want everyone to be able to have access to..

Add to that, that P99 is "striving" to be as legit "classic" as possible, but the devs do make decissions of not making everything true classic, if they don't like it.

Using your own example, there is absolutely no difference whatsoever between the two items (focus items vs. guise). Both grant a minor effect that doesn't "kill game ballance".

*Furthermore, some dev (Haynar?) stated that he was working on trying to implement pet canni for mages (reclaim high level earth pet for more mana), a minor "exploit" that became a minor "feature" over time. After all, this is emu is trying to replicate EQ the way it was, not the way it was supposed to be (minus powerful, glaring expoits).

I've wasted enough time replying to random people. I've presented facts. I've made my case. I'll be waiting for a dev reply before making any further posts.

[dali_lb]

Originally Posted by Jify [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Reclaim energy should be based on the HP of the pet that is being reclaimed.

You got it some wrong, some right.

The word here is "Should" be based on the HP of the pet, but not the"number" 1, 50, 125, 375 hp or whatever. It should be based on the %HP the pet has left when you reclaim it. if pet is at 33% hp you will only get 25% mana return

This is not the case on P99 However. Try reclaiming a pet a 1% or 100%.
you get the exact same amount back - 75% mana of pet summoning.

Hense it can be vastly abused on P99, unless they change how reclaim works.

[Pyrocat]

bump

[Haynar]

Originally Posted by dali_lb [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You got it some wrong, some right.

The word here is "Should" be based on the HP of the pet, but not the"number" 1, 50, 125, 375 hp or whatever. It should be based on the %HP the pet has left when you reclaim it. if pet is at 33% hp you will only get 25% mana return

This is not the case on P99 However. Try reclaiming a pet a 1% or 100%.
you get the exact same amount back - 75% mana of pet summoning.

Hense it can be vastly abused on P99, unless they change how reclaim works.

Do we have anything that says what % of hitpoints it should be? The current way it is, it will return level of pet * 4 mana. The only numbers I have seen anyone say are 10% of HPs. I am still looking at how good those numbers are. I am out of town at the moment, so my access is limited. Just any numbers on how much mana was returned from an earth pet, should give me the info what I need to extapolate the rest. If I remember right, the 49 earth pet takes 200 base mana to cast. How much mana should a full HP earth pet return?

Haynar

[mmiles8]

In my attempts at finding the formula, what I found was information on why pet canni doesn't exist within the scope of P99.

Quotes upon quotes and evidence explaining that pet canni consisted of several things:
Improved Reclaim Energy AA, a Summoning Efficiency focus item, a mount,

It was based off of Current HP, not percentage of HP. If it was based off of percentage of HP you could use any pet of any level. Mages cannid the focused earth pet or MS2 for a reason: Its high HP.

And here's your citation!

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum...hp/t-3365.html

Mages get Reclaim Energy (http://lucy.fnord.net/spell.html?id=331&source=Live) at level 1. It kills the pet and gives the caster mana determined by the hp of the pet (it's not a straight 1:1 conversion, tho...I forget the formula).

At around level 50+, the hp of the mage's pet is so high that it actually gives more mana back than it took to cast it. So a mage can therefor just cast a pet, reclaim it and get an overall increase in mana. This is Pet Canni, cannibalizing their pets just like shamans cannibalize their bodies. Just repeat this several times and a oom mage can be FoM in no time, especially with 61+ pets. Then you add in the AAs for Faster pet summoning (50% less) and componentless summoning and it just makes it even faster. The overall downside to this is the Mage must kill their pet in order to do it, which could hurt depending on how much equipment and buffs it has. However, if the Mage gets the Suspend Companion AA, they can just suspend their current pet and do their Pet Canni, then unsuspend it.

It's been around for quite a while, since Kunark I believe, when the pets became high enough in HP to give more mana back, and there's been nothing done to nerf it, only improve it. You have to remember that not having a pet for a mage is a huge cripple, a mage is very vulnerable while they're doing this. That and unless they have the Suspend Companion AA, they still need to summon the pet and buff it and give any items they may have to it. That's enough of a downside, IMO.

Really? At what higher lvl? And with what effects? Explain how we can regen mana by summoning pets and then reclaiming energy.

It involved having the right focus items. I think you needed a mana-saving focus. It reduced your cost to cast, but not the amount you got back from reclaiming, thus you ended up gaining mana after casting/reclaiming a pet.

You need a summoning efficiency item, to reduce the cost of casting the pet, and a horse/drogmar so you dont loose med time while casting. Reagent conservation is nice too.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/s...tml?spell=3548

It almost certainly is an uber rare drop, and possibly doesn't even exist in the game. It seems SoE wants to cut down on mage pet canni. At 65, mages seem to either be using a general purpose preservation focus (such as preservation of xegony) or still canni'ing with the pre-60 pets. Sorry to disappoint all the mages looking for a better focus for pet canni.

This is THE BEST way to quantify pet canni I have ever found. Enjoy.

http://members.cox.net/jmattcrews/petcanni.xls

Just for arguement's sake, I am rocking an FT rating of 137 when I canni over a sustained period of time. In just a single casting, the FT rating is 173.8 The reason this sustained value is lower is due primarily to recast time.

FT 137. Yeehaw!

Atris has me smoked in this department tho. I think Atris is rocking FT 150, but I could be wrong. If Atris doesn't have quick summoning 2 yet, then her FT is only 118.

The XLS file link is dead but you can see from the discussion that the focus effects were what made pet canni work. Pet canni didn't exist until focus effects went in.

Change to Magicians ability prompts refund of AA points.
Hello Norrath,


In the next update, tentatively scheduled for December 18th, any Magicians who have used AA points to purchase Improved Reclaim Energy will have that ability removed and the AA points reimbursed. This comes as result of changes to the amount of mana returned, which previously allowed Magicians to regain more mana than they used in casting a pet.

Please be aware that if you have this AA you will be receiving a refund of those points and that you cannot save more than 30 points. So if your refund brings you over 30, you will need to spend them before you zone after the update.

Wait, here's the entire post:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all,

I have received confirmation that this change is indeed going live. The
spell was not meant to return more mana than was spent casting the pet.

Sorry for the short notice on this. I will try to give more advance
warning on these sorts of changes in the future.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats got to be one of the worst posts I've seen made, this new guy
seems a complete ass.

We are shooting your grandmother in the head today.

Sorry about the short notice.

The 75% that it's currently sitting at is correct for the modern form, here's a citation

Changes the formula to Reclaim Energy to return 95% of the mana used to summon the pet. This considers all forms of mana preservation present on the mage at the time the pet is summoned. Normal Reclaim Energy is only 75%. This is most useful to mages that employ chain-summoning techniques for killing monsters.

Pet Cannibalization was a technique used to summon pets, and then reclaim them for more mana than they initially cost. As a result of the December 18, 2003 patch, this is no longer exists in the game, for all intents and purposes.

Mage Compendium Improved Reclaim Energy link from after AAs and before summoning efficiency items:

http://web.archive.org/web/200211230...ompendium.com/
This ability improves the Magician's ability to regain energy from their pets when sending them away. Any time the Magician with this ability casts Reclaim Energy he will regain almost all of the Mana expended during the summoning of that pet.

I couldn't find a formula anywhere, but it would seem that it doesn't matter.

[Atern]

For what it's worth, I seem to remember that you got full mana back for reclaiming pets originally. It was later changed to be proportionate to the hp of the pet.

As for the OP, if there are no patch notes stating that the mage focus items were changed to be clickable from inventory by everyone, you have to assume that it was like that from original release.