A regular and casual raiding day on P99.

[xarzzardorn]

how magnanimous of FE

if europa was in the church then they shouldn't even be in the way of the pull. blame the awful hate pathing on tmo if it makes you feel better

[rafaone]

Didnt Europa get the Inny loot anyways?

This thread is not about looting, is about how 1 guild can screw another one EQ experience without looking back.

But to answer you, Well, yeah 1 piece of shit for 1 hour wasted. Anyway, I still believe we did bad looting anything that day.

[raff01]

Originally Posted by xarzzardorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

how magnanimous of FE

if europa was in the church then they shouldn't even be in the way of the pull. blame the awful hate pathing on tmo if it makes you feel better

I don't know, but to me it looks like you want to make it sound as if TMO were innocent and Europa was just bitchin because it makes you feel better.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by stonez138 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if I light a fire in a building full of people with the intent of getting warm then its ok because I didn't have the intent to burn anyones property or kill somebody even though that's going to be an obvious and unavoidable consequence? I know this comparisson is a stretch at best but if the side effects of what your doing is obvious to you then it is intentional.

Depends on the arson statute and what level of culpability is required. It is usually separated by degrees of arson based on property value or death/injury to person.

Speaking of your example, your actor would lack "intent" but likely acted knowingly or recklessly.

Not to drag this out further with semantics, but the original point was "intentional" training requires "intent" to train.

[falkun]

Ele, all of that could have been avoided via:
1) OP's point: honest communication
2) Fighting Inny on/near spawn with the few adds that exist between Port-in and Inny when another guild has already cleared to Church
3) Taking the time to clear to Inny when your 'competition' has already backed off

TMO knowingly created a clusterfuck in Hate. This clusterfuck was entirely unnecessary per the facts provided.

[raff01]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Depends on the arson statute and what level of culpability is required. It is usually separated by degrees of arson based on property value or death/injury to person.

Speaking of your example, your actor would lack "intent" but likely acted knowingly or recklessly.

Not to drag this out further with semantics, but the original point was "intentional" training requires "intent" to train.

There's a difference : that might not have been intentional training as in "training with the purpose of training." but rather: not giving a single fuck that you might very well train someone by trying to achieve your goal. The goal in question here being Inny being pulled to zone.

So sure its not as despicable as intentionally training for the sake of trainning, but its still a jackass move nevertheless.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ele, all of that could have been avoided via:
1) OP's point: honest communication
2) Fighting Inny on/near spawn with the few adds that exist between Port-in and Inny when another guild has already cleared to Church
3) Taking the time to clear to Inny when your 'competition' has already backed off

I don't disagree with any of those points. The first pull was a poorly executed pull because the puller had bad information about the spawn layout (being told it was mostly clear to Inny), and thus rushing to get pull down to zone in.

[Skope]

So you train a guild (or more than one, as I remember last time we attempted Inny), and with proof the guild that benefited gets a suspension of a single raid mob...

... and you really expect me, or anybody else, to actually follow the rules?

Perhaps I'm out of my fucking mind here, but I really don't think that measly of a punishment is much of a deterrent. In fact, that's probably why Inny turns into a shitshow every single time he's up and why guilds are actively avoiding the crapfest. You've got to record everything that goes on and take a plethora of screenshots and hope you're in the right position and then barely anything happens. I'm not seeing how that's an improvement over that RNG FTE/poopsock thing you hate so much

[enr4ged]

I think it's clear from this thread we can assume one of two things:
1. TMO players purposely train other guilds while going for raid bosses.
2. TMO players are unskilled and accidentally train others cause they don't understand the game.

[enr4ged]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So you train a guild (or more than one, as I remember last time we attempted Inny), and with proof the guild that benefited gets a suspension of a single raid mob...

... and you really expect me, or anybody else, to actually follow the rules?

Perhaps I'm out of my fucking mind here, but I really don't think that measly of a punishment is much of a deterrent. In fact, that's probably why Inny turns into a shitshow every single time he's up and why guilds are actively avoiding the crapfest. You've got to record everything that goes on and take a plethora of screenshots and hope you're in the right position and then barely anything happens. I'm not seeing how that's an improvement over that RNG FTE/poopsock thing you hate so much

Pretty much this...
In this current game state I don't even want to put in the effort towards raiding as every encounter I've come across so far has resulted in mass trains and volatile situations in an effort to secure the boss.

Most people would rather avoid those situations.

Clean up the raid scene by enforcing harsher penalties to get most of the scum out of the game and you'd probably get a lot more interest from the people who are respectful of others.