Wizard fix

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by ReoDobbs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What? So we're just picking lvl 49 spells to make our point? Wizard spells get more and more mana efficient for a wiz post 50. Mage's strongest point in the game is 39-49

Let's try actually making a comparison of end game:

Wizards highest nuke=4.0 dpm
Mage's highest nuke=3.1 dpm

This is before taking into effect that most mages are going to be specialized in Conjuration and most Wizards Evocations so the mana efficiency even goes more lopsided towards the wizard than the above numbers. In general things also tend to have higher fire resistances than cold resistances.

What a sketchy way to try to prove your point...

Interesting that you point out my sketchy way that covers levels 1-50 but your way is not sketchy that covers end game. Way to go, pot calling the kettle black.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting that you point out my sketchy way that covers levels 1-50 but your way is not sketchy that covers end game. Way to go, pot calling the kettle black.

Lol I agree. Like “oh wizards are much better at end game so you should totally take my crappy wizard in your group all the way from level 1 until then”

[ReoDobbs]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol I agree. Like “oh wizards are much better at end game so you should totally take my crappy wizard in your group all the way from level 1 until then”

The whole point that is being argued is that he thinks mages without a pet are better than Wizard for a group. Throughout 1-48 and 50-60 the dpm difference is much more extreme than the ONE data point he purposely chose.

A mage, which has a pet, is almost always going to be the better pick. That's not where the dude went though.

[ReoDobbs]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting that you point out my sketchy way that covers levels 1-50 but your way is not sketchy that covers end game. Way to go, pot calling the kettle black.

Good to see you've come to your sense and stopped trying to argue the ridiculous claim you attempted to make in the first place.

[eqravenprince]

Originally Posted by ReoDobbs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Good to see you've come to your sense and stopped trying to argue the ridiculous claim you attempted to make in the first place.

No, is it really that ridiculous? I still believe a petless magician > wizard levels 1-50. Nukes are practically the same. So the comparison is do you believe root is worth more than DS, Malo, Summoned Items.

[ReoDobbs]

Originally Posted by eqravenprince [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, is it really that ridiculous? I still believe a petless magician > wizard levels 1-50. Nukes are practically the same. So the comparison is do you believe root is worth more than DS, Malo, Summoned Items.

No, it is completely ridiculous, almost every nuke hits for more and has more dpm by a significant margin. There's two different spans Mages go 10 levels between a nuke upgrade too. And yes I think snare, root, evac, teleport is worth more than DS, a worse shaman Malo, and summoned items (lol)

[Sabin76]

Originally Posted by ReoDobbs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it is completely ridiculous, almost every nuke hits for more and has more dpm by a significant margin. There's two different spans Mages go 10 levels between a nuke upgrade too. And yes I think snare, root, evac, teleport is worth more than DS, a worse shaman Malo, and summoned items (lol)

Just to set the record straight, the only "malo" a mage gets that is a worse version of the shaman one is the unresistable one at the end of the line (Mala vs Malo). All others are the exact same spell. Mages simply get it a couple levels after Shaman.

...and, because I decided to start typing this response, I might as well go all in by comparing the nukes for everyone (based on the wiki, so ymmv):

If multiple ST nukes were learned in a single level, I chose the one with the higher dpm. In case of a tie, I chose the one with the higher damage.

Level 1 Nukes -
Mage: Burst of Flame (5/7 = 0.71 dpm)
Wizard: Shock of Frost (6/8 = 0.75 dpm)

Level 4 Nukes -
Mage: Burn (14/15 = 0.93 dpm)
Wizard: Shock of Fire (15/16 = 0.94 dpm)

Level 8 Nukes -
Mage: Flame Bolt (47/40 = 1.18 dpm)
Wizard: Fire Bolt (51/40 = 1.28 dpm)

Level 12 Nukes -
Mage: Nothing new, unless you count Ward Summoned (41/30 = 1.37 dpm)
Wizard: Shock of Lightning (83/60 = 1.38 dpm)

Level 16 Nukes -
Mage: Shock of Flame (97/70 = 1.39 dpm)
Wizard: Flame Shock (110/75 = 1.47 dpm)

Level 20 Nukes -
Mage: Bolt of Flame (156/105 = 1.49 dpm)
Wizard: Force Shock (179/120 = 1.49 dpm + interrupt)

Level 24 Nukes -
Mage: Shock of Spikes (176/110 = 1.60 dpm)
Wizard: Frost Shock (187/110 = 1.70 dpm)

Level 29 Nukes -
Mage: Nothing new, unless you count Dismiss Summoned (162/90 = 1.80 dpm)
Wizard: Inferno Shock (250/135 = 1.85 dpm)

Level 34 Nukes -
Mage: Cinder Bolt (333/175 = 1.90 dpm)
Wizard: Ice Shock (320/160 = 2.00 dpm)

Level 39 Nukes -
Mage: Nothing new, unless you count Expel Summoned (273/130 = 2.1 dpm)
Wizard: Lightning Shock (405/180 = 2.25 dpm)

Level 44 Nukes -
Mage: Shock of Swords (600/250 = 2.40 dpm)
Wizard: Force Strike (625/250 = 2.50 dpm + interrupt)
*A couple other things here... Mages get a DoT that does 600/240 = 2.50 dpm and Wizards get their first fire lure.

Level 49 Nukes -
Mage: Lava Bolt (810/300 = 2.70 dpm)
Wizard: Ice Comet (1120/400 = 2.80 dpm)

Levels 50-60 -

Mage: Get their first DD upgrade at 52 for 711/245 = 2.90 dpm with Char, get a low dpm (2.57) but high dps* (225) nuke at 54 with Scars of Sigil, get their second DoT 1010/265 = 3.81 dpm) at 55 with Wrath of the Elements, get their first** 3.00+ dpm nuke with Shock of Steel at 57 and finally cap out with their highest damage + most mana efficient nuke with Seeking Flame of Seukor (1024/320 = 3.20 dpm).
* This can be chain cast as the time it takes to click your GDC is enough to counteract the 0.25 second difference between cast time and recover time.
** An evocation-spec'd mage will be at 3.00+ dpm well before this, and Shock of Steel will be useless since it's a conjuration spell.

Wizard: Get their first 3.00+ dpm nuke at 51 with Draught of Fire (688/215 = 3.20 dpm) which is also a great dps nuke at 229. At 52 they get their ice lure. At 54 they get the magic-based version of Draught of Fire with Voltaic Draught. At 55, they get an interrupt added onto the it with Draught of Jiva as well as a fire lure on par with the ice lure from 52. At 57 they get their ice-based draught, which is an upgrade in efficiency as well (731/215 = 3.40 dpm). At 58, they get their magic-based lure. And finally at 60 they get their most efficient and hardest hitting nukes in Ice Spear of Solist (1200/300 = 4.00 dpm), Sunstrike (1615/450 = 3.59 dpm), and the bane spells (2000/450 = 4.44 dpm).

TLDR: ReoDobbs is right in that a wizard's nuke are (almost) always more damage and more efficient.

I think the biggest difference is that what a mage brings to the group is both passive and active, whereas a wizard is only active, but this argument seems to be about mages and wizards both nuking without a mage pet in the mix...

[cd288]

Originally Posted by ReoDobbs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, it is completely ridiculous, almost every nuke hits for more and has more dpm by a significant margin. There's two different spans Mages go 10 levels between a nuke upgrade too. And yes I think snare, root, evac, teleport is worth more than DS, a worse shaman Malo, and summoned items (lol)

The problem is mage isn’t the only other dps class in the game