What attitudes and philosophies do you hate in P1999?

[Daldaen]

Oh to the people who have issues with classic removing things like your map, compass, target window, con color in target box, etc.

Those things removed the challenge which you site as your reason for playing here.

Part of the game's challenge comes from tedium and cumbersomeness.

Stuff like being able to cycle targets, or see your exact mana value or have 40 hotkeys between 4 hotbars... Make many aspects of the game MUCH easier than they were in classic. Without many of those abilities/UI pieces people wouldn't be able to accomplish as much as they can now. Fumbling through bags for clickies (remember in classic you couldn't open all 8 bags or have an inventory slot as part of your UI unless you set it as a hotkey), fumbling through different pages of your single hotbar for a Hotkey, trying to target different mobs to keep them locked down with no cycle target, etc.

While you see it as just convenience, I see it as powerful aspects of the game that allow people to accomplish far more than was capable back in 2000-2001, and not because we are more knowledgeable now. Because the mechanics of the game didn't allow it.

Oh - Another thing I get annoyed with. People who think our current incarnation of sneak pulling is legit and how it worked back in the day. Nope, not even close.

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh to the people who have issues with classic removing things like your map, compass, target window, con color in target box, etc.

Those things removed the challenge which you site as your reason for playing here.

Part of the game's challenge comes from tedium and cumbersomeness.

Stuff like being able to cycle targets, or see your exact mana value or have 40 hotkeys between 4 hotbars... Make many aspects of the game MUCH easier than they were in classic. Without many of those abilities/UI pieces people wouldn't be able to accomplish as much as they can now. Fumbling through bags for clickies (remember in classic you couldn't open all 8 bags or have an inventory slot as part of your UI unless you set it as a hotkey), fumbling through different pages of your single hotbar for a Hotkey, trying to target different mobs to keep them locked down with no cycle target, etc.

While you see it as just convenience, I see it as powerful aspects of the game that allow people to accomplish far more than was capable back in 2000-2001, and not because we are more knowledgeable now. Because the mechanics of the game didn't allow it.

Oh - Another thing I get annoyed with. People who think our current incarnation of sneak pulling is legit and how it worked back in the day. Nope, not even close.

ITT: Individual misunderstands the terms Easy vs. Convenient.

cited*

Please don't attempt to speak for me. The map has nothing to do with the challenge, I'm referring to things like Regen rates of mana and HP, the difficulty of taking an even con mob (even well equipped, solo vs an even con mob will often result in death unless everything goes perfectly smooth.) Nothing about having maps in the game makes it the game itself easier. It makes navigating more convenient, but the game easier? Please you're reaching pretty fucking hard to make that connection.

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In game map feature was being hugely abused by ppl with mq2, removing it was insanely good for the server. Nobody should have the ability to see everything in the zone in real time just by pressing backspace.

I can't speak for hackers or exploiters, but the map that I remember didn't show everything in zone; just physical borders. zone walls, entrnaces and the like. ALl the same information I can get from a wiki map, which I will ALWAYS have open for a zone that I am unfamiliar with.

Also if that's not classic why do we allow use of the wiki maps? Same feature, just not in game. Were wiki's a thing back then?

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I can't speak for hackers or exploiters, but the map that I remember didn't show everything in zone; just physical borders. zone walls, entrnaces and the like. ALl the same information I can get from a wiki map, which I will ALWAYS have open for a zone that I am unfamiliar with.

Also if that's not classic why do we allow use of the wiki maps? Same feature, just not in game. Were wiki's a thing back then?

I'm just saying it was worth the inconvenience to get this ability removed

[myriverse]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also if that's not classic why do we allow use of the wiki maps? Same feature, just not in game. Were wiki's a thing back then?

There were not Wikis, but there were various websites, which were sort of prototypes for Wikis.

But I agree. I just don't see the difference between plotting points and paths on a screen and doing it on paper. There was nothing at all about the ingame map that made the game easier.

Anyway, the philosophy I hate most is the general "classic" grognardism. Next is the Bard hate (just don't get it).

[drktmplr12]

Originally Posted by myriverse [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There were not Wikis, but there were various websites, which were sort of prototypes for Wikis.

But I agree. I just don't see the difference between plotting points and paths on a screen and doing it on paper. There was nothing at all about the ingame map that made the game easier.

I just want to point out that the interactive nature of an in game map is completely different than having a map on another monitor or printed out (this is how i did it in 2000) on your desk. Your character is a little "+" in the center. I could navigate through an entire zone without even looking at anything 3D, just by navigating my little "+" through the map that someone else made. I think directions along the lines of "follow the left wall until" is a testament to the difference between no map and an interactive map.

Anyone else ever buy this? EQ Atlas I loved mine. Had lore and points of interest, but it was lost/thrown out one time i moved. Sad.

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by drktmplr12 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just want to point out that the interactive nature of an in game map is completely different than having a map on another monitor or printed out (this is how i did it in 2000) on your desk. Your character is a little "+" in the center. I could navigate through an entire zone without even looking at anything 3D, just by navigating my little "+" through the map that someone else made. I think directions along the lines of "follow the left wall until" is a testament to the difference between no map and an interactive map.

Anyone else ever buy this? EQ Atlas I loved mine. Had lore and points of interest, but it was lost/thrown out one time i moved. Sad.

>Implying people pay attention to anything but the zone wall when attempting to navigate around a zone for the first time.


We're all aware that you don't get a cursor to follow your character, but it does not make the game itself any easier, and that right there is what I cannot stand. People think in order for the game to be good and challenging it has to be a stripped down barebones featureless mockup of a game and that simply is not true.

Unless the great challenge EQ posed to you was attempting to find a specific area in a zone, you've posed an entirely pointless argument.

Keep in mind I'm not at all trying to get the maps back, in the few months since I've returned I've managed to get most of the zones down pat (well trulyn I never forgot most of it from my last stint in '14), I just find the attitude of most of the "shits classic" fanatics to be nothing short of deplorable.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Umless the great challenge EQ posed to you was attempting to find a specific area in a zone, that's a pointless argument.

That, in fact, was one of the great challenges. Getting lost in EQ was a dangerous thing and made Norrath a much larger world.

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That, in fact, was one of the great challenges. Getting lost in EQ was a dangerous thing and made Norrath a much larger world.

not if you use maps out of game (everyone does)

Since I started playing on p99 I've not got lost once (truly pants shittingly lost i.e. playing in 2000, night blind and lost in gfay) despite the lack of in game map. Why? Wiki maps and sense heading bindings. Your point is moot.

Again I urge you to keep in mind: I'm not trying to get maps brought back, I just want to point out the attitude people carry here in regards to simple things like a map and compass is absolutely absurd

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Xer0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We're all aware that you don't get a cursor to follow your character, but it does not make the game itself any easier, and that right there is what I cannot stand.

What is your definition of easier? Because with the commonly accepted definition you keep misusing the word.

[Xer0]

No sir, I'm fairly certain I'm not. Maps just dont make games easier, plain and simple.

No night blindness definitely makes the game easier. Being able to see the rest of the world while medding also makes the game easier.

It's the simple things like the way a mob resisting one cast can spell the difference between a ding and a death, painfully slow hp/mana regen, and just the general unforgiving nature of the game mechanics that spell out a challenge.. NOT whether or not I can hit a button and bring up maps (Protip: I can do this anyway with the steam overlay)