Best solo melee class?

[Crede]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you were doing better than an enchanter at level 51, it was a really bad enchanter.

I clearly said "until level 51" in the post you quoted. Yes eventually an enchanter can out level them as they scale much better 51+. But until that point bard is basically nonstop killing if you know what you're doing.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

they [bard] simply, mathematically, cannot be on par with the other melee classes.

This is not always correct, and I was talking about levels 1-45 or so. The metric for XPing is kills per hour. This is a combination of variables including DPS, Recovery Time, and Pull time. Let me give a simple example:

Level 40 Human Bard (1/12 HP Regen Standing/Sitting with using hymn of Restoration while sitting)

Level 40 Human Monk (6/8 HP Regen Standing/Sitting with using Mend on cooldown)

Both characters have the same stats:
100 STR
100 DEX
1200 HP

Bard is using Vilia's Verses of Celerity (20% Haste) + Tuyen's Chant of Flame (21 DoT damage per Tick) + Selo's Consonant Chain (~25% slow).

Monk is using Mend on cooldown. 1200 x 0.25 = 300 / 360 = 0.833 × 6 seconds = 5 HP per tick.

Hymn of Resoration gives you between 2 and 13 HP per tick, depending on level. At 40 it should give you 9 HP per tick.

Mob is level 35 with 1000 HP and does 8 DPS.

This example is Classic EQ (No Expansions) Solo Self Found:

1. Human Bard Dual Wielding Dragoon Dirk (0.26 ratio) + Obsidian Scimitar (0.26 ratio) using my DPS Calculator:

• 7 Melee DPS + 3.5 DoT DPS = 10.5 DPS.
• 95 Seconds Kill.
• 760 Damage Taken × 0.75 via Slow = 570 - 16 HP from Regen = 554 Damage Taken.
• 12 HP Regen including Hymn Sitting = 277 second recovery.
• 372 seconds total per kill.

2. Human Monk Dual Wielding Bare Fists (0.375 ratio) using my DPS calculator:

• 11.25 Melee DPS + 5 DPS Flying Kick (guesstimate) = 16.25 DPS
• 61 second kill.
• 488 Damage Taken - 60 HP from Mend + Regen = 428 Damage Taken.
• 8 HP Regen including Mend Sitting = 321 Seconds.
• 382 seconds total.

The bard in this scenario is melee killing and recovering at the same rate as the monk with worse ratio weapons.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by kjs86z2 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

eh was more thinking you should be pulling (either with eye helm or getting your ass out there)

if you're letting any other class pull you're bad - the monk is doing way more damage and no other class can cast and move at the same time...oh and eye helm too is pure amazeballs for keeping your twist going in camp

there should always be a steady stream of mobs coming into camp, throttled by group dps / capability

obvious caveat being you're breaking some super dangerous spot where you need FD...but for standard leveling groups this doesnt apply ever...especially once you get aoe snare

if you happen to be the virtuoso sperg that can do it all perfectly and melee - bravo...the mage sitting there sending his pet in while watching netflix thanks you for all that extra work

Tangential but I like it when wizards pull with eye while medding and cc the incoming train with aoe snares, roots, etc.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is not always correct, and I was talking about levels 1-45 or so. The metric for XPing is kills per hour. This is a combination of variables including DPS, Recovery Time, and Pull time. Let me give a simple example:

Level 40 Human Bard (1/12 HP Regen Standing/Sitting with using hymn of Restoration while sitting)

Level 40 Human Monk (6/8 HP Regen Standing/Sitting with using Mend on cooldown)

Both characters have the same stats:
100 STR
100 DEX
1200 HP

Bard is using Vilia's Verses of Celerity (20% Haste) + Tuyen's Chant of Flame (21 DoT damage per Tick) + Selo's Consonant Chain (~25% slow).

To help your comparison a bit, you should be getting 25% from the low level self haste Jonthan's Whistling Warsong still at 40. And then an even better self haste at 46. And maybe even your lvl 30 chant too if you can get 4 songs off.

I'd imagine with 2/3 chants + haste with epic bards are putting out some pretty nice dps at 46 if you're lucky enough to get it that early.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To help your comparison a bit, you should be getting 25% from the low level self haste Jonthan's Whistling Warsong still at 40. And then an even better self haste at 46. And maybe even your lvl 30 chant too if you can get 4 songs off.

Thanks for the suggestions! Let me know if you think of anything else. I'm not an expert bard, so not 100% sure what the best songs to use are at 40 for a melee bard.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the suggestions! Let me know if you think of anything else. I'm not an expert bard, so not 100% sure what the best songs to use are at 40 for a melee bard.

Well depends on gear hehe. If you're meleeing at 40 and can afford Lute of the Howler, you don't need to play the haste song anymore to free up other songs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Snaggles]

It’s easy to lose track of the original post/topic. I’m guilty as well.

I’d go ranger or bard. Bard is the least gear dependant melee by a mile. Even charm kiting 1v1 mobs is much faster. Rangers are a blast…then painful from like 51-59…then amazing to have at 60.

If you want a shiny armor toon that’s easy to level, nothing beats a bard.

[Zuranthium]

Spamming Bard songs is not MELEE. It's like calling a Cleric spamming undead nukes a melee class just because they can stand in melee while they do it. Or a Necro with lifetap spam.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hymn of Resoration gives you between 2 and 13 HP per tick, depending on level.

Way more than that with an instrument (which ofc should be used during downtime).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Spamming Bard songs is not MELEE. It's like calling a Cleric spamming undead nukes a melee class just because they can stand in melee while they do it. Or a Necro with lifetap spam.

Bards can swing their melee weapons while casting songs. It's different from a Cleric casting spells in melee, as the Cleric cannot swing their melee weapon until the spell finishes.

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Way more than that with an instrument (which ofc should be used during downtime).

Indeed, instruments will help. I am just not familiar with how the instrument modifiers work, so I didn't include them.

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Spamming Bard songs is not MELEE. It's like calling a Cleric spamming undead nukes a melee class just because they can stand in melee while they do it. Or a Necro with lifetap spam.

What, is your definition of bard melee just autoattacking without playing songs? That's dumb as hell. Bard melee is when you have weapons equipped and attacking. You would still be twisting songs, you just don't (exclusively) have an instrument wielded for the modifier. The alternative would be snare-kiting or fear-kiting with drum dots, or charm killing, or swarming.

This is not to say that that scenario is realistic or illustrative, though. The Monk would be using bind wound and the bard would be using a lute while recovering, for one thing. What that napkin math really demonstrates is how powerful bard recovery is. Bard melee sucks shit relatively speaking, but the recovery benefits outweigh that deficit. Plus the ability to split with lull, cc with mez/charm, and snare runners means you have huge QoL benefits. Bard melee is fine, it's just relatively overlooked due to how powerful and efficient it is to swarm, fear kite, snare kite, or charm. That melee scenario has over four minutes of recovery, but with any of these other tactics it will be close to zero downtime.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Indeed, instruments will help. I am just not familiar with how the instrument modifiers work, so I didn't include them.

It's pretty simple. Instrument modifiers multiply the effects by the modifier, so an 18 drum results in dots/selos 1.8x as strong, and a 21 lute means your hymn is 2.1x as powerful. But it doesn't apply to every effect, so things like haste, charm, lull, mana regen, maybe snare/slow aren't affected by modifiers.