Players will always compete for raid mobs; the point of contention is the rules

[kaev]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When paying bills becomes more satisfying than raiding, something's wrong with the game.

Amen

[carli]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training in VP allows the guild that controls VP to kill other targets and keep a small training force in VP to prevent others from killing precious VP mobs. If you could not train in VP, there are enough people keyed that the mobs would die immediately and trainers couldn't save them for later. Consider the effects of holing VP capable guilds up in VP on respawn days when they can't save the VP mobs for last...

To whomever said this server is a Classic experience, please tell me how 96+ hour Variance is classic.

As I've said in the Sirken interview thread, if CSR wants the playerbase to self-police, then give us the capability to self-police. Variance takes away capability to police: only when your guild can answer a batphone instead of planning ahead.

Webrunner, this is EQ, not real life, we're in their world now. I play real life when I take my dog to the park, cook dinner for/with my wife, and pay my bills. When paying bills becomes more satisfying than raiding, something's wrong with the game.

Lorean, that was a good OP, don't let the troll/spin-force get you down.

Great post I agree with everything said here.

[zanderklocke]

If I had a battle to pick with the raid scene in terms of what makes the overall experience less fun for all players in terms of "training in VP" or "variance", I'm still going to say it's variance.

No one, not even TMO enjoys tracking. Everyone wants simultaneous raid mobs popping with people racing to the targets. Why do you think everyone has so much fun on server repop days and score tally threads pop up on the forums? It's fun competition that everyone tries to take part in.

Pressing track or staring at all wall just isn't fun; no one on this server has fun doing it.

Obviously, some people do not have fun due to training in VP, but on the other hand, some people do have fun training in VP. I would sure as heck be annoyed if I was killing a mob, and then all of a sudden my raid got wiped due to someone pulling mobs over us. However, I'd probably be somewhat excited to have a chance at a mob if the competing raid was trained over. It just depends on the side of the spectrum you are on I suppose; no one getting loot based on the system will want it to change. Some people like training; others don't. No general consensus will be reached on this topic.

However, with this being said, no one enjoys tracking and staring at the wall. Absolutely no one. I really think a general consensus could be reached on agreeing that variance, which is not classic, takes away from having fun in the game for all people on the server. Maybe guilds like being able to have a system in place that allows their guild to better mobilize and get mobs, but the actual trackers are not actually having "fun" when tracking.

Let's not kid ourselves, tracking does not take more skill; it just takes more warm bodies. Training in VP on the other hand probably does involve skill, even if the playing fields aren't quite even due to lack of VP keys being available. Perhaps removing variance might pop some more Trakanon teeth into the population? If people want EQ to be a game of skill, fun, and competition, variance probably has to go. It stands in opposition to all these factors that could make EQ raiding fun. Training in VP is an issue that is on the fence for me; I think it's a much more difficult issue to reach a consensus on.

Thoughts?

[kylok]

Best anti variance argument I've read. Based on the couple server repops I've seen in the last few weeks I have to agree that variance makes the game less fun for everyone.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training in VP is an issue that is on the fence for me; I think it's a much more difficult issue to reach a consensus on.

Thoughts?

The massive Variance this server has is not classic, but it is nice that raid mobs are allowed to drift around the clock so they are sometimes in prime-time for non-US folks. Personally I'd like pre-announced (like 2-7 days notice?) full respawn either a) every other week and does not affect normal timers or b) once per month that resets all spawn timers. But do not always have the full respawn at the same time of day, just give adequate notice so people can be on.

My reason for being against training in VP is that training allows VP capable guilds to kill targets outside VP first and save VP targets for when its convenient. Killing spawns when its convenient is:
1) counter-philosophy to Variance (Sirken says Variance keeps guilds from pushing spawns to "off-hours" as Nihilum on Red does)
2) Reduces the chance for other guilds to get raid mobs because VP guilds do not have to focus on VP and can focus efforts elsewhere
3) Makes VP different than every other zone in the game

[enr4ged]

Originally Posted by Volibear [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My point is they are other servers with alternate rule sets and they don't work. People want a classic server and got it. Nothing needs to be changed.

p99 has variance and VP training.
Variance is not classic, training people in VP is not classic.

This is the whole point of his post. How did you miss this. Your point is illogical.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I always found it interesting how some individuals will sycophantically praise Nilbog and Rogean for making P99 available for everyone to enjoy, yet they react with violent allergy to the mere suggestion that small and occasional courtesy might also be a worthy aspiration.

[Clark]

Originally Posted by quido [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am so glad that morans can't poopsock Phara Dar.

moron*

[kylok]

Originally Posted by Clark [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

moron*

I believe that's purposefully misspelled =/

[quido]

some people are new to the internet