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#1
06-13-2010, 02:11 AM
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Abacab on play nice policy
16:14 Abacab The reason why I started the whole griefing and training situation a few months back is there is just too much Gm intervention on gameplay
16:15 Abacab Any issue that arises can be solved by players cause they are just that player disputes, what I consider to be placed in the GM realm should just be exploits and gameplay issues 16:15 Abacab People arguing over camps, raid targets, and a bit of griefing can all be solved via the community 16:15 Abacab People that KS, that train, that dick over the server automatically get blacklisted by the community 16:16 Feiel And when players don't settle a dispute? 16:16 Abacab Everything is settled, even if comes to absolute destruction of this other player 16:17 Feiel Via trains, KS and other means? 16:17 Abacab It's not just a pvp mentality, it was real EQ live politics 16:17 Abacab very rarely did a GM come in to intervene on camp and raid disputes 16:18 Abacab That's why you could have a ninja looter on your server for months and nothing was done about it, because there was no need for a suspension as the player community blacklisted this player from guilds, groups and so on 16:20 Feiel While that is true, thus ninja looter still has the ability to cause havok on others in many other ways. 16:20 Abacab Like I was in hate with you, when IB and DA were arguing over the zone 16:20 Abacab and only reason you had to come mediate is because the staff enforces rules about the situation instead of a "first to engage" policy 16:21 Feiel Ultimatly in situations like that, whatever guild/players decide to be dicks more, come out on top. 16:21 Abacab Did you have to port DA out? Not really, cause they could've just cleared trash and what not, I mean both guilds are in fear every two days for draco and consistently clear trash, so I really didn't understand removing them from the zone 16:23 Abacab The rules as they are, are very murky cause even though they state exactly what is needed they are contentious by nature 16:24 Feiel I never had any hand in the rule creation, but you know that. 16:24 Abacab So you get to the point where guilds when they being to lose the encounter wipe themselves and claim that the other guild had a hand in it 16:24 Abacab I Transcendence sponsored that, and being in that guild I was highly against these rules just like those in other guilds 16:25 Feiel and on the other end... you get situations where players just wipe the other raid. 16:25 Abacab They're just intangible and constantly need amending to keep up to date with encounters 16:25 Abacab Currently there is no rules when sky comes out 16:25 Abacab or when kunark encounters are released 16:26 Abacab so that means they need to be backdrafted and updated which causes more confusion, and contention and guides and GM's will have to have a larger role in end game content 16:26 Abacab it's a lose/lose situation for both players and developers 16:27 Abacab Staff will have to spend more time solving broken rules and disputes and general whining, and players lose out because the rules are heavily enforced by staff that GM's consistently have to shadow guilds 16:27 Feiel personally, and actually most of the staff will say the same thing, the last thing we ever care to do is step into player situations. I would rather help people out with legit problems... got stuck in random parts of the world (happens very common in the old client)... have issues with creating guilds and all the lame stuff 16:28 Abacab I see the larger picture though 16:28 Abacab people think kunark will be a saving grace to end game content 16:29 Abacab You watch as OS keying mobs like foragers and hunters have to be enforced due to guilds perma-killing and deleting the amulets to systematically cock block the rivals out of content 16:30 Abacab With the current rules later on you're pretty much going to have to sit in entire zones and watch mobs 24/7 16:30 Abacab and that's gonna fucking suck 16:32 Feiel That really sounds no different right now than guilds just sitting in pohate/solb days on end [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] 16:33 Feiel I personally don't understand it, but I know it happens. 16:35 Abacab Well the reason this happens it easy to understand 16:35 Abacab The staff and the server admins believe in community but lose sight of the fact that this is a video game, and video games by nature are ultra-competitive and that allows for people to be "dicks" 16:36 Abacab EQ is no different than Call of Duty or Halo, it's competitive and instead of PvP directly it's guild vs guild fighting over objectives 16:37 Abacab So when you enforce play nice policies that effect game play in such a way that it limits player action it causes too much intervention and ruins the competitiveness in the long run 16:38 Abacab So you get situations where people sit on zones 3 days straight because there are rules enforced that if one variable goes wrong a shit storm of /petition goes through arguing over those murky rules 16:38 Feiel Than why were PNP rules ever created? They were obviously never put in for the sake of fucking the game over. 16:38 Abacab What if one of our 15 dies? What if a faction war occurs? What if we get trained? Who gets this, who gets that? 16:38 Abacab It's so contentious 16:39 Abacab play nice policies are merely idealistic 16:39 Abacab It's just like the Geneva convention which is a IRL play nice policy 16:39 Abacab and if you know anything about human nature they find ways to exploit the current rules or simply go over the system 16:40 Abacab Idealism only works if the people playing are all on the same page and want the exact same thing and have zero competitiveness 16:40 Abacab the moment greed, desire, control, power and competition come in to play, the policies are essentially void and or skewed for benefit 16:40 Feiel Yup, people always will look for loopholes. Those situations always look great because the outcomes just sound wrong. 16:41 Abacab Which is why I argue against the rules in the long run they are not infallible and will cause much more issues than if they were totally non-existent 16:42 Abacab or at least keep the current rules to minimum courtesy 16:43 Abacab Such as no exploiting encounters 16:45 Feiel You can't ignore the potential for small groups of players have in destroying an entire community. 16:46 Abacab Wouldn't be an issue because those small groups of people would be branded 16:46 Abacab Why would my group consistently cause strife for the sake of it, if I know that the entire server would be on a witch hunt for me? 16:46 Feiel even a branded community can do its job. 16:47 Abacab but not as well 16:47 Abacab Because of my name alone, I can't get guilded as abacab 16:47 Abacab I can't even get a group 16:47 Abacab or a port cause I end up in toxxulia 16:48 Abacab which totally fucks me in several key components of the game 16:48 Abacab It means I can't xp in good groups, I can't tag along in a raid, and people will fuck me over because I've been known to troll 16:48 Feiel That was done with your own actions. TBH, I never knew Dukat was you untill much later in the evening. 16:49 Abacab Precisely my point, the players solved that issue on their own | ||
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#3
06-13-2010, 02:14 AM
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Like The Art of War
Sun Tzu Abacab, Publish a book The art of Classic EQ
__________________
~Yiblaan Conjurer
53 Magician of P1999~ ~Leader of <Tears of Prexus>~ Magician of the 2 Seas of Norrath! ~Bearded~ 51 Cleric ::::RED 99:::: ~Sylvana Whisperwind~ 45 Druid ~Yiblaangel~ 33 Paladin of Prexus  | ||
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#4
06-13-2010, 02:19 AM
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Quote:
Play nice policies do not work in ultra-competitive environments, and increased intervention by powers that be only leads to diminishing player control over encounters as they become highly over-regulated. People are going to bend rules, go over the system or under the system at any opportunity and when it comes to situations that are ultra-competitive this behavior amplifies. It's best to let the competition go at each others throats and establish a pecking order over putting restraints that only provide a determent. | |||
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#5
06-13-2010, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
__________________
Another witty, informative, and/or retarded post by:
 "You know you done fucked up when Yendor gives you raid commentary." - Tiggles | |||
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#6
06-13-2010, 02:28 AM
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I agree. Play nice only works when people aren't competing. If everything was instanced (like most modern mmorpgs) none of this would really be a problem.
EQ thrived because of community. The game world gave players power. If people were consistently dickheads they got blackballed. The players will find their own solution to problems without GM intervention. My guess is if GMs didn't enforce any raid rules that in the short run guilds would probably train each other/cause havoc/people would die/blah blah blah. I think in the long run however guilds will form their own system (rotation was popular on live) and solve many of the problems that currently exist. We could go back to the classic "timed" spawns on raid mobs and things would flow smoother. For instance, if rotation were used, if a guild defaulted on the agreement then the other guilds in the pact would cause havoc for that guild. Imagine if IB took DA's Cazic Thule spawn on the rotation. DA could talk to Divinity and Remedy and they could all train IB for the next few nights and not give up. It's "punishment" decided BY the players. All these control mechanism will not work in the long run and only create more problems then they create. | ||
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#7
06-13-2010, 02:44 AM
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Wow just wow, that whole conversation just shows the ignorance and stupidity that you hold in the warped little brain of yours.
Dunno what server people played on but on Tunare we had GM intervention fairly often when PNP was violated. Maybe not immediate but people were disciplined. | ||
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#8
06-13-2010, 02:48 AM
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Quote:
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#9
06-13-2010, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
The staff doesn't have the resources to watch 20+ encounters round the clock, and the players don't have the insight to dictate themselves accordingly, and like I said in the chat log play nice polices NEVER work in ultra-competitive environments if they did the U.N would be the most functional well established organization in the world. | |||
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