Forceful Entry wipes pathetically to CT on a Free anc Clear Engage with 45 people

[Eccezan]

This was even after a botched FTE engage by Forceful Entry.

TMO cleans up afterwards

Loots: 2x Slime Bloods of Cazic Thule, 1x Darkwood Trunk

WTS Slime Blood of Cazic Thule - 450k

Was curious though, who got the orb of tishans and bard horns from your Talendor kill?

[Ashburn]

cool story

[Tasslehofp99]

lol u mad

[Eccezan]

http://cdn.uproxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/joffrey-clap.gif

[Rhambuk]

Congratulations?

hardly rnf worthy. wheres the trains? wheres the raid wipes?

[Critical]

Where is the video...

Where is the care... Your trolling has gotten very dry.

[Dualform]

I feel as though it's equally "pathetic" to bring it to the forums and wank to it - but that's just me ;p

[Rhambuk]

I feel as though it's equally "pathetic" to bring it to the forums and wank to it - but that's just me ;p

sorry what?

distracted by asses

[Tiggles]

Joining the club!

[kotton05]

Lets talk about mobilization:)

Ohhhh.

Keep trying to draw blood out of turnip. Hardly RnF worthy.

[Jenni D]

need to start taking screenshots imo

[Tiggles]

need to start taking screenshots imo

Seriously have 4 different fraps this week that I can't show until GMS decide or what ever.

makes me so sad =(

I want to provide for you Jenjen I do

[Enygma]

Lets talk about mobilization:)

Ohhhh.

Keep trying to draw blood out of turnip. Hardly RnF worthy.

WE forgot to mention FE wipes to CT without TMO being in zone, FE then tries to FTE snipe CT on TMO engage, then FE wipes AGAIN!! LOL!!! Then TMO rapes CT gets 2x Slime Blood, FE still crying for poor performance with 45 players.

TMO still laughing at them.

[Tippett]

no one cares faggots jerk off to it in /gu imo

[Tasslehofp99]

WE forgot to mention FE wipes to CT without TMO being in zone, FE then tries to FTE snipe CT on TMO engage, then FE wipes AGAIN!! LOL!!! Then TMO rapes CT gets 2x Slime Blood, FE still crying for poor performance with 45 players.

TMO still laughing at them.

LOL we tried sniping your FTE? Your rogue Cyrano ran in trying to snipe FTE off of us. Keep spinning bro, you're lucky we fucked up and wiped at 4 % otherwise this post would look alot different if it even would've happened at all...considering CT is the first mob TMO has gotten all week. :eek::eek::eek:

[Tasslehofp99]

The most entertaining thing about this post is that Eccezan was so anxious to post it after not getting a single kill up until CT this week that he couldn't even check the title for errors.

[Malicious Style]

LOL we tried sniping your FTE? Your rogue Cyrano ran in trying to snipe FTE off of us. Keep spinning bro, you're lucky we fucked up and wiped at 4 % otherwise this post would look alot different if it even would've happened at all...considering CT is the first mob TMO has gotten all week. :eek::eek::eek:

I know you don't like to let facts bother you, but this is still the same week as the server reset, unless you want to start counting on Monday. If that's the case, then no one got much of anything because nothing was in window. Either way, your message is skewed to the point of being disingenuous. Some people like to call this spinning.

[Tasslehofp99]

K...in this "round" of spawns, TMO has gotten CT while FE has gotten trak, talendor, fay, draco.


Sorry I'm not technical enough for you, but those are the facts.

[Funkutron5000]

Why do TMO members constantly overestimate the number of FE in zone in threads like this?

[Cecily]

This thread is now about: why isnt tiggles a fish anymore?

[Alarti0001]

K...in this "round" of spawns, TMO has gotten CT while FE has gotten trak, talendor, fay, draco.


Sorry I'm not technical enough for you, but those are the facts.

Want to bet on this? :)

[India]

From Sunday Feb 17 thru Saturday Feb 23, what's the count of mobs for each guild?

[kotton05]

Want to bet on this? :)

=-)

[jpeute]

i'm surprised this kind of thread is still feeding the troll...

[Godefroi]

gratz 1/4 lol GG ! hahahahh

[xmonkx]

Haha I love how Merkk joins FE, gets a little taste of killing some bosses and acts likes hes pro! I remember this kid beggings for scraps after Trak kills.

[Alarti0001]

gratz 1/4 lol GG ! hahahahh

+2

[Susano]

Haha I love how Merkk joins FE, gets a little taste of killing some bosses and acts likes hes pro! I remember this kid beggings for scraps after Trak kills.

Says drone #735 in the TMO collective.

[Alarti0001]

Says drone #735 in the TMO collective.

Drone #832 of the IB/VDA/FE collective has something to say ^^

[Eccezan]

Says drone #735 in the TMO collective.

Says chronic underachiever and douchebag since Fennin Ro. (span of 13 years)

[Susano]

Says chronic underachiever and douchebag since Fennin Ro. (span of 13 years)

Ah the memories of Zenith Sage killing targets with minimal numbers back before batphones when only a few TMO were online to try and train/cry/crash zones at 8am EST.

TMO, keeping it classy for 13 years. Cheat 2 win baby!

[India]

From Sunday Feb 17 thru Saturday Feb 23, what's the count of mobs for each guild?

Why doesn't anyone want to answer this?

:confused:

[Alarti0001]

Ah the memories of Zenith Sage killing targets with minimal numbers back before batphones when only a few TMO were online to try and train/cry/crash zones at 8am EST.

TMO, keeping it classy for 13 years. Cheat 2 win baby!

Zenith Sage targets = Vindicator....Velketor

[Alarti0001]

Why doesn't anyone want to answer this?

:confused:

2 mobs are pending :)

[India]

2 mobs are pending :)

As of right now how many mobs has each guild killed this week? The week is defined as starting Sunday February 17

[finalgrunt]

http://oi49.tinypic.com/2801lhs.jpg

[cyryllis]

lol i remember doing fear with zenith sage with anything but minimal numbers

[Versus]

FE confirmed new top guild on P99.

[Alarti0001]

As of right now how many mobs has each guild killed this week? The week is defined as starting Sunday February 17

We really don't need to run the repop in their face anymore.

Any FE members wanna put down some PP, lets say 100k, that your kill count for this week decreases?

[Aviann]

Hey guys, I can throw my poop further than you.

[Susano]

Zenith Sage targets = Vindicator....Velketor

More like Avatar of War and Vulak.

[jkfranklin]

Op is a giant cocksucker and known cheater.

[Tiggles]

Op is a giant cocksucker and known cheater.

Quoted posted is an unknown and angry FE member/old IB

[Eccezan]

Op is a giant cocksucker and known cheater.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad92/apickleforanickle/THOU-ART-ANGERED-BRETHREN.jpg

[Alarti0001]

More like Avatar of War and Vulak.

In PoP :)

[Alarti0001]

As of right now how many mobs has each guild killed this week? The week is defined as starting Sunday February 17

As of right now TMO has 17 mobs this week. FE has 5
Soon to be 19 and 3 though.

[jkfranklin]

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad92/apickleforanickle/THOU-ART-ANGERED-BRETHREN.jpg

Cheat more imo

[Alarti0001]

Cheat more imo

no u

[maverixdamighty]

We really don't need to run the repop in their face anymore.

Any FE members wanna put down some PP, lets say 100k, that your kill count for this week decreases?

will put up 100k against a green scale from your guild bank

[Loly Taa]

More like Avatar of War and Vulak.

LOL, yeah- More like AoW and Vulak after Planes of Power came out.

[Alarti0001]

will put up 100k against a green scale from your guild bank

Whats your character name?

[Halfelfbard]

The Sack within

[Enygma]

Why do TMO members constantly overestimate the number of FE in zone in threads like this?

we count before you guys engage... not after you wipe.

[Nirgon]

Op is a giant cocksucker and known cheater.

http://i.qkme.me/3rf09p.jpg

[odiecat99]

Who gives a fuck this is a game. You leet players need to l2stfu and level up in rl. WTB job, girlfriend, and RL friends try that asshole. TMO really just fucking starts more shit on these forums, and half of the members have sticks up their asses. QQ QQ

[Autotune]

QQ QQ

[Nirgon]

Keep making threads fucking with the only guild on either server that could handle true classic content. Expect more "meanness".

[Rekrul]

Is this what the raid scene is like here? Is this how you people talk to each other? I mean sure, I did this shit when I was 16, too, but this game is 13 years old. Are these really mid 20-30 year olds acting like complete in-bred retards? Could it actually be possible that that some these fanboys never grew out of their virgin, no-friends life?

Really, TMO/FE, how can you even make these posts and think that you are a worthwhile human being? Do you actually think that anyone is even remotely impressed by the garbage you post? What is the point of these threads being made? Both sides usually 100% disagree with each other, and anyone looking from the outside just thinks you're both downies.

tl;dr: This game is old, so you're probably above 23yrs, why are you acting like obnoxious 15yr olds? Is your life that sad?

[Kagatob]

Is this what the raid scene is like here? Is this how you people talk to each other? I mean sure, I did this shit when I was 16, too, but this game is 13 years old. Are these really mid 20-30 year olds acting like complete in-bred retards? Could it actually be possible that that some these fanboys never grew out of their virgin, no-friends life?

Really, TMO/FE, how can you even make these posts and think that you are a worthwhile human being? Do you actually think that anyone is even remotely impressed by the garbage you post? What is the point of these threads being made? Both sides usually 100% disagree with each other, and anyone looking from the outside just thinks you're both downies.

tl;dr: This game is old, so you're probably above 23yrs, why are you acting like obnoxious 15yr olds? Is your life that sad?

^
The above is confirmed in my Alarti thread.

[Halfelfbard]

Rekrul "DUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRR" (deep breath) "I try for 10 hours a day to try to lick my own balls"

[Autotune]

Rekrul "DUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRR" (deep breath) "I try for 10 hours a day to try to lick my own balls"

It has been proven with science that if you do this for 10hrs a day, after 3 weeks you will actually be able to lick your own balls.

[Halfelfbard]

Rekrul will b the first to know.

[Rekrul]

Rekrul "DUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRR" (deep breath) "I try for 10 hours a day to try to lick my own balls"

^ confirmed my post?

Am i doing this right guys?

[Sckrilla]

What I don't get is why so many people even click any thread in RnF that contain either the words or acronyms "TMO/FE" in it expecting anything less; then trying to voice their opinion on why everyone in it have no lives, "herp a derp 13 yr old" game, etc. Might as well not even open up RnF because you know damn well 90% of it is going to consist of this shitty drama on a daily basis. It just makes you look like an even bigger shmuck posting about it and having nothing to do with it, or even worse, like one of the select few who don't even play here anymore yet constantly come back to read this shit.

*shrugs*

[Halfelfbard]

The long and short of it is...people love drama, or watch a fight. involved or not, its bin entertainment for us since we where kids. On the playground u yelled Fight!, and ran over to watch.

[Tasslehofp99]

Yeah, except usually on the playground it was a fair fight
Here its so unbalanced its almost pathetic TMO even tries to shit talk anyother guild on here.



Its like a 4 yr old (newer, smaller, less established guilds) losing a fight to a full grown man(TMP who has monopolized everything for going on almost 2 yrs now) , and the adult male winner turning around and bragging afterwards.

[Tasslehofp99]

Actually*
tmo*

Etc etc suck me

[Autotune]

Yeah, except usually on the playground it was a fair fight
Here its so unbalanced its almost pathetic TMO even tries to shit talk anyother guild on here.



Its like a 4 yr old (newer, smaller, less established guilds) losing a fight to a full grown man(TMP who has monopolized everything for going on almost 2 yrs now) , and the adult male winner turning around and bragging afterwards.

except it's not like that, because FE consists mostly of old raiders.

[Halfelfbard]

I was bigger and stronger than almost all the kids on the playground, tackle football was like me vs the other team.

[odiecat99]

the problem is Autotune is a gigantic cunt.

[quido]

Its like a 4 yr old losing a fight to a full grown man

lol

[Alarti0001]

Yeah, except usually on the playground it was a fair fight
Here its so unbalanced its almost pathetic TMO even tries to shit talk anyother guild on here.



Its like a 4 yr old (newer, smaller, less established guilds) losing a fight to a full grown man(TMP who has monopolized everything for going on almost 2 yrs now) , and the adult male winner turning around and bragging afterwards.

I would agree with you if this was Velious.... But Kunark is 32k hp capped. So all our gear doesnt mean shit cause honestly you dont need "grey suede boots" when a mob dies in 18 seconds.

[Tiggles]

I would agree with you if this was Velious.... But Kunark is 32k hp capped. So all our gear doesnt mean shit cause honestly you dont need "grey suede boots" when a mob dies in 18 seconds.

Fuck you I still need Grey Suede boots

[Mortiiss]

Is this what the raid scene is like here? Is this how you people talk to each other? I mean sure, I did this shit when I was 16, too, but this game is 13 years old. Are these really mid 20-30 year olds acting like complete in-bred retards? Could it actually be possible that that some these fanboys never grew out of their virgin, no-friends life?

Really, TMO/FE, how can you even make these posts and think that you are a worthwhile human being? Do you actually think that anyone is even remotely impressed by the garbage you post? What is the point of these threads being made? Both sides usually 100% disagree with each other, and anyone looking from the outside just thinks you're both downies.

tl;dr: This game is old, so you're probably above 23yrs, why are you acting like obnoxious 15yr olds? Is your life that sad?

Entertainment. I don't think anyone really cares -that- much.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Its like a 4 yr old (newer, smaller, less established guilds) losing a fight to a full grown man(TMP who has monopolized everything for going on almost 2 yrs now) , and the adult male winner turning around and bragging afterwards.

This thread is now about everyone's favorite interweb topic: How many 4 year olds can you take out before they zerg you down? The children show no fear, are unarmed, and are fully intent on killing your jive ass.

I'm thinking 200+ np np

[Malicious Style]

ITT: Tasslehof compares members of his guild to toddlers.

[Hurley]

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/28800000/Rugrats-rugrats-28819123-555-495.gif

[Mortiiss]

ITT: Tasslehof compares members of his guild to toddlers.

Context is a funny thing.

[Malicious Style]

Context is a funny thing.

It's not funny no matter how you look at it, just whiny and pathetic.

[Hailto]

Says chronic underachiever and douchebag since Fennin Ro. (span of 13 years)

Implying anything to do with Everquest is a real "achievement". This statement sheds a lot of light on Eccezan's life.

[Mortiiss]

It's not funny no matter how you look at it, just whiny and pathetic.

y u so mad?

[Godefroi]

Implying anything to do with Everquest is a real "achievement". This statement sheds a lot of light on Eccezan's life.

lol

[Eccezan]

lol

Hey Godefroi, if you were as good as playing EQ as you are at being a forum douchebag, we might let you app to the guild. But even so, we dont need enchanters atm. Better luck next time though.

[jkfranklin]

Hey Godefroi, if you were as good as playing EQ as you are at being a forum douchebag, we might let you app to the guild. But even so, we dont need enchanters atm. Better luck next time though.

cheat more imo

[Eccezan]

cheat more imo

lol u still mad or just stupid?

[jkfranklin]

lol u still mad or just stupid?

you still cheating or did your mq account get banned?

[Eccezan]

you still cheating or did your mq account get banned?

never cheated, no account banned...did you not read the entire 500 page thread? I dont blame you. :)

[Auvdar]

RnF is making me hate Game of Thrones.

[Rhambuk]

still love that quote auv lol.

now, what the fuck is game of thrones

[Funkutron5000]

We really don't need to run the repop in their face anymore.

Any FE members wanna put down some PP, lets say 100k, that your kill count for this week decreases?

will put up 100k against a green scale from your guild bank

Whats your character name?

What was the outcome of this bet? Did GMs award TMO that Trak or Fay? Or does Alarti owe someone a green scale?

[maverixdamighty]

we still have the loot but will be some way to back out of it and avoid making good on it.

[Alarti0001]

What was the outcome of this bet? Did GMs award TMO that Trak or Fay? Or does Alarti owe someone a green scale?

1.) Never got a character name.
2.) Status still pending.

[maverixdamighty]

1.) Never got a character name.
2.) Status still pending.

/who all mav

you will find someone in game

[Alarti0001]

/who all mav

you will find someone in game

So you putting down 100k?

[Raavak]

TMO lost phinny too :(

[Rhambuk]

Now its interesting, what are the odds?

lets go on track record? tmo 2:1 ?

[Rhambuk]

TMO lost phinny too :(

Div got tranix 2 days ago, put that in your list biggots

[maverixdamighty]

So you putting down 100k?

already said i would. if loot gets moved over from FE to TMO i'll give you 100k. if not green scale.

I wasn't at fay but accusing someone of kiting a mob when you have 5 in zone at the time of engage seems like a no brainer.

I was at trak and we were in a superior position and had our own guy train us then after a few mini trains while rezzing we killed him without any claim of tmo fte etc. If that one gets reserved there is something extremely wrong.

[maverixdamighty]

Div got tranix 2 days ago, put that in your list biggots

crown?

[Rhambuk]

Yes but it was removed and given to bda, they had a group moving to ragefire and Technically engaged him first.

Next time!

[Alarti0001]

already said i would. if loot gets moved over from FE to TMO i'll give you 100k. if not green scale.

I wasn't at fay but accusing someone of kiting a mob when you have 5 in zone at the time of engage seems like a no brainer.

I was at trak and we were in a superior position and had our own guy train us then after a few mini trains while rezzing we killed him without any claim of tmo fte etc. If that one gets reserved there is something extremely wrong.

Nice =)

[Tanthallas]

What was the outcome of this bet? Did GMs award TMO that Trak or Fay? Or does Alarti owe someone a green scale?

Looks like TMO owes mav a green scale.

Both petitions have been resolved.

[Alarti0001]

Looks like TMO owes mav a green scale.

Both petitions have been resolved.

Incorrect =)

[Tanthallas]

But thanks for getting my poor bard suspended for 'kiting' Fay while you had 5 people in the zone. There were 17 FE in zone when this 'kite' happened and there were 17 FE in zone that engaged Fay while your horde waited on the raft to zone in. I will be sure to repetition your Sev kite with the Fraps and all though.

If you think someone is kiting a mob, pull it off that person next time. Leave it to TMO to be complete fucking douchebags and petition for raid interference when they did not even have a raid force in the zone.

Learn to mobilize instead of petitioning imo.

[Tanthallas]

The penalty is a suspension for kiting. My bard is suspended.

You did not engage with a raidforce, hence you cannot claim you engaged the mob. If you engaged the mob, things may be different.

Then again, you did not have anyone on the agro list, so you had no part in killing Fay.

What is difficult about this, Alarti? Is TMO at the point now where they want handouts?

[Ele]

If you think someone is kiting a mob, pull it off that person next time. Leave it to TMO to be complete fucking douchebags and petition for raid interference when they did not even have a raid force in the zone.

Learn to mobilize instead of petitioning imo.

GMs said not to take law into your own hands.

[Tanthallas]

Well then, why was FE not awarded trak loot when we 'did not take it into our own hands' even though we had FTE?

Because we did not throw mass bodies at it when TMO ran in.

Unfortunately, if you want to claim a kill you have to have a part in that kill. Even straight FTE is not enough.

[Alarti0001]

The penalty is a suspension for kiting. My bard is suspended.

You did not engage with a raidforce, hence you cannot claim you engaged the mob. If you engaged the mob, things may be different.

Then again, you did not have anyone on the agro list, so you had no part in killing Fay.

What is difficult about this, Alarti? Is TMO at the point now where they want handouts?

Here is your kite path STFU. Worthless cheater.

http://i.imgur.com/wwuTRU8.jpg

[Ele]

Well then, why was FE not awarded trak loot when we 'did not take it into our own hands' even though we had FTE?

Because we did not throw mass bodies at it when TMO ran in.

Unfortunately, if you want to claim a kill you have to have a part in that kill. Even straight FTE is not enough.

Ask a GM.

[Frieza_Prexus]

If you think someone is kiting a mob, pull it off that person next time. Leave it to TMO to be complete fucking douchebags and petition for raid interference when they did not even have a raid force in the zone.

Learn to mobilize instead of petitioning imo.

I was not present for Fay, but I just wanted to make a general comment on what has been the custom for outdoor dragons. Generally, numbers in a zone have not materially mattered so long as a good faith mobilization is underway. In the majority (Possibly all?) of cases that I am aware of, a directly pulled mob (no kite, straight point A to point B), has never arrived in camp before a reasonably sized raidforce was present.

Also, TMO specifically tends to shy away from peeling kited mobs. I cannot remember the last time we've done it (if ever, though it is very possible). This is due to, again, how the raid scene developed during the IB/TMO days. TMO has had far too many negative consequences when peeling mobs that are supposedly kited. This, in turn, is responsible for TMO's reliance on FRAPS and petitions in such scenarios.

For good or ill, those are the established customs.

[Tasslehofp99]

But thanks for getting my poor bard suspended for 'kiting' Fay while you had 5 people in the zone. There were 17 FE in zone when this 'kite' happened and there were 17 FE in zone that engaged Fay while your horde waited on the raft to zone in. I will be sure to repetition your Sev kite with the Fraps and all though.

If you think someone is kiting a mob, pull it off that person next time. Leave it to TMO to be complete fucking douchebags and petition for raid interference when they did not even have a raid force in the zone.

Learn to mobilize instead of petitioning imo.

lol typical, they mad

[maverixdamighty]

http://i.imgur.com/cSSsD8C.jpg?1

[Halfelfbard]

And the plot thickens

[Godefroi]

What was the outcome of this bet? Did GMs award TMO that Trak or Fay? Or does Alarti owe someone a green scale?

Alarti owes FE a green scale

[Godefroi]

I was not present for Fay, but I just wanted to make a general comment on what has been the custom for outdoor dragons. Generally, numbers in a zone have not materially mattered so long as a good faith mobilization is underway. In the majority (Possibly all?) of cases that I am aware of, a directly pulled mob (no kite, straight point A to point B), has never arrived in camp before a reasonably sized raidforce was present.

Also, TMO specifically tends to shy away from peeling kited mobs. I cannot remember the last time we've done it (if ever, though it is very possible). This is due to, again, how the raid scene developed during the IB/TMO days. TMO has had far too many negative consequences when peeling mobs that are supposedly kited. This, in turn, is responsible for TMO's reliance on FRAPS and petitions in such scenarios.

For good or ill, those are the established customs.

You've got to be kidding, just even today on Draco we had a TMO bard try to snag it from our pull.

nice PR attempt though buddy.

[Alarti0001]

You've got to be kidding, just even today on Draco we had a TMO bard try to snag it from our pull.

nice PR attempt though buddy.

You were kiting again.. We got dem fraps.

[maverixdamighty]

You were kiting again.. We got dem fraps.

yes usually you kite the zone and someone tags draco off of the kite...do you petition yourself everytime you do this as well?

[Godefroi]

You were kiting again.. We got dem fraps.

Dosxx banned for training FE in Fear, can we get the CT loot removed ?

would be only fair !

lol come on alarti, you've lost, are you ready to give us a green scale ?

[Frieza_Prexus]

You've got to be kidding, just even today on Draco we had a TMO bard try to snag it from our pull.

nice PR attempt though buddy.

I assure you, I am quite serious.

I am simply pointing out established customs and offering an explanation for the TMO's actions as they have been presented in this thread. Please note that I used the word explanation and not justification, so let's not try to read it into something it is not.

I freely admit the possibility that TMO has, and will in the future, peel mobs. It is, in my opinion however, quite clear that TMO does not exercise peeling as an option nearly as frequently as it could. The reason being past experiences. This was stated as a direct answer to Tanthallas' demand that we peel mobs instead of petitioning kites.

And I'm not your buddy, guy.

[Alarti0001]

yes usually you kite the zone and someone tags draco off of the kite...do you petition yourself everytime you do this as well?

Dosxx banned for training FE in Fear, can we get the CT loot removed ?

would be only fair !

lol come on alarti, you've lost, are you ready to give us a green scale ?

@mav sure.. as long as the kite doesnt do laps... which yours did.


Earlier you said he was suspended for trak... now its fear? make up your mind troll.

[dragonfists]

I assure you, I am quite serious.

I am simply pointing out established customs and offering an explanation for the TMO's actions as they have been presented in this thread. Please note that I used the word explanation and not justification, so let's not try to read it into something it is not.

I freely admit the possibility that TMO has, and will in the future, peel mobs. It is, in my opinion however, quite clear that TMO does not exercise peeling as an option nearly as frequently as it could. The reason being past experiences. This was stated as a direct answer to Tanthallas' demand that we peel mobs instead of petitioning kites.

And I'm not your buddy, guy.

at least you'll admit you're not above doing questionable shady tactics, others in tmo like to present the white knight image..

[maverixdamighty]

@mav sure.. as long as the kite doesnt do laps... which yours did.


Earlier you said he was suspended for trak... now its fear? make up your mind troll.

our kited died and sloan picked up the kite and draco was tagged off again before you guys even had a raid force in zone. I didn't say anything about suspensions so you are mixing up your quotes. To my knowledge sloan got suspended for a fay kite, which looking at your map is ridiculous considering you guys had 5 in zone at time of engage and he died before you guys could get off the raft...

[Frieza_Prexus]

yes usually you kite the zone and someone tags draco off of the kite...do you petition yourself everytime you do this as well?

Ordinarily, an improper kite occurs when it is a stalling tactic. In the case of Draco, a U-turn or loop can sometimes be necessary to get the mob into the camp, so a kite can still be legitimate without being a straight line. Pullers are allowed a certain degree of self preservation.

That said, several guilds, including TMO have gained and lost Dracos (or other mobs) because the puller over/under shot the camp and had to double back. When this happens vent tends to explode because everyone knows the mob just went back on the market. In this latter case, such would be a petitionable incident if it was found to be a deliberate stalling tactic. Otherwise, the mob simply becomes peelable by an opposing force. (Unless the "kiting" raid clearly regains control of the mob by resuming a proper pull before any such peel attempts are made).

[maverixdamighty]

Ordinarily, an improper kite occurs when it is a stalling tactic. In the case of Draco, a U-turn or loop can sometimes be necessary to get the mob into the camp, so a kite can still be legitimate without being a straight line. Pullers are allowed a certain degree of self preservation.

That said, several guilds, including TMO have gained and lost Dracos (or other mobs) because the puller over/under shot the camp and had to double back. When this happens vent tends to explode because everyone knows the mob just went back on the market. In this latter case, such would be a petitionable incident if it was found to be a deliberate stalling tactic. Otherwise, the mob simply becomes peelable by an opposing force. (Unless the "kiting" raid clearly regains control of the mob by resuming a proper pull before any such peel attempts are made).

all sorts of scenarios could happen, but fact is you guys are complaining about kites where you did not have a raid force present, which should negate any petition you have. we pulled it as soon as it was feasibly possible today. Yet when your bard kites for 10m in ej it's because he's new and learning the zone? Come on man...

[Frieza_Prexus]

at least you'll admit you're not above doing questionable shady tactics, others in tmo like to present the white knight image..

Do not twist my words. I was strictly talking about TMO peeling dragons in response to what they judged were illegitimate kites. There is nothing shady about such a scenario.

Of course, TMO and every other guild has committed E-crimes at some point. This is beyond doubt. I freely admit this, as do most people. However, I do not enjoy you subverting my message for a cheap partisan snipe.

[Frieza_Prexus]

all sorts of scenarios could happen, but fact is you guys are complaining about kites where you did not have a raid force present, which should negate any petition you have. we pulled it as soon as it was feasibly possible today. Yet when your bard kites for 10m in ej it's because he's new and learning the zone? Come on man...

(Triple post; I should probably get away from the computer now, heh.)

I am not referencing or justifying any particular action. Please reread my initial post: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=862872&postcount=110

The context of that post was to simply illuminate certain principles that explain how and why the scenarios in question played out as they did. The general, and accepted up to this point, custom has trended towards requiring only a good faith mobilization when the pull begins in order to have a vested interest in that particular encounter. In other words, if you're running to the mob in a timely manner you will likely have a say in the resolution of the encounter.

[maverixdamighty]

(Triple post; I should probably get away from the computer now, heh.)

I am not referencing or justifying any particular action. Please reread my initial post: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=862872&postcount=110

The context of that post was to simply illuminate certain principles that explain how and why the scenarios in question played out as they did. The general, and accepted up to this point, custom has trended towards requiring only a good faith mobilization when the pull begins in order to have a vested interest in that particular encounter. In other words, if you're running to the mob in a timely manner you will likely have a say in the resolution of the encounter.

Agreed then.

[radditsu]

Ordinarily, an improper kite occurs when it is a stalling tactic. In the case of Draco, a U-turn or loop can sometimes be necessary to get the mob into the camp, so a kite can still be legitimate without being a straight line. Pullers are allowed a certain degree of self preservation.

That said, several guilds, including TMO have gained and lost Dracos (or other mobs) because the puller over/under shot the camp and had to double back. When this happens vent tends to explode because everyone knows the mob just went back on the market. In this latter case, such would be a petitionable incident if it was found to be a deliberate stalling tactic. Otherwise, the mob simply becomes peelable by an opposing force. (Unless the "kiting" raid clearly regains control of the mob by resuming a proper pull before any such peel attempts are made).


I hate it when you make sense. It's much easier to hate on people of mouthbreather squad when they don't make sense.

[Tanthallas]

a good faith mobilization when the pull begins in order to have a vested interest in that particular encounter. In other words, if you're running to the mob in a timely manner you will likely have a say in the resolution of the encounter.

When you petition another guild for 'kiting' a raid mob - in this case putting an additional 30 seconds perhaps on a pull that is a 5 minute pull to begin with - while having less than a full group in zone to that guilds 17 people, any 'good faith' talk is straight bullshit. 17 FE were in zone, 17 FE killed Fay. If kiting was the goal to stall, it seems like we did a poor job.

Kiting rules are in place to avoid raid interference. There is no raid interference here; instead there is a group of people trying to abuse the intention of the rules because they once again did not beat FE to mobilization.

[Funkutron5000]

Ordinarily, an improper kite occurs when it is a stalling tactic. In the case of Draco, a U-turn or loop can sometimes be necessary to get the mob into the camp, so a kite can still be legitimate without being a straight line. Pullers are allowed a certain degree of self preservation.

That said, several guilds, including TMO have gained and lost Dracos (or other mobs) because the puller over/under shot the camp and had to double back. When this happens vent tends to explode because everyone knows the mob just went back on the market. In this latter case, such would be a petitionable incident if it was found to be a deliberate stalling tactic. Otherwise, the mob simply becomes peelable by an opposing force. (Unless the "kiting" raid clearly regains control of the mob by resuming a proper pull before any such peel attempts are made).

It's always a pleasure to see you post, Xasten. You tend to go for informative and honest posting, which is surprising in RnF. It's always nice to see something other than "prove it", "no u" which is present from both TMO and FE.

[Scowlie]

Kiting rules are in place to avoid raid interference. There is no raid interference here; instead there is a group of people trying to abuse the intention of the rules because they once again did not beat FE to mobilization.

Pretty much this.

It's disgusting to visually watch TMO kite Talendor and get away with it while we had a raid force in zone capable of killing it.

Then we have a scenario where one or two TMO are in zone and have no legitimate chance of killing Fay. All the while Eccebaby is spewing his RNF garbage in shout, showing his clear intention of getting people banned and having no interest in actually killing the boss.

These are the same people that talk about wanting legitimate competition and a fair server.

Pretty sure you douches are only here to troll and ruin the server because you have nothing better to do. And you're doing a good job at it, some of my friends who played on this server for years take one look at this forum and have zero desire to play.

Not to mention:

TMO knowing exactly when Trak is going to spawn, multiple questionable GM rulings in their favor and getting accounts MQ flagged unbanned? Seems like an interesting trend.

[Alarti0001]

TMO knowing exactly when Trak is going to spawn, multiple questionable GM rulings in their favor and getting accounts MQ flagged unbanned? Seems like an interesting trend.

This is whats wrong with your guild. Your leaders get suspended for cheating and you call TMO cheaters.... Pathetic.

[Tanthallas]

What is wrong with your head is you think that taking 30 seconds more to pull is on the same level of cheating as potential use of third party programs.

Stay classy.

[Tiggles]

FE Leadership CONFIRMED suspended for kiting training and various douchebaggery.

This latest blow against FE all but cements the guilds rapid disintegration and absorption by BDA.

As we speak FE is currently holding a manditory members meeting in KC to discuss new homes for its wayward players.

We at TMO are willing to waive our "No FE" application policy in light of this poor situation and will consider any FE member on there previous merit.


http://www.themysticalorder.net

We at TMO implore members of FE to flee now before they end up being branded a instigator or trouble maker and ruin any chance of seeing end game content. We welcome all members who qualify a home where they do not need to worry about socking a mob or having any items received removed by force due to cheating leadership.


Thank you for your time.

[Alarti0001]

What is wrong with your head is you think that taking 30 seconds more to pull is on the same level of cheating as potential use of third party programs.

Stay classy.

Did you see that pull path.. thats way more than 30 seconds..

[maverixdamighty]

Did you see that pull path.. thats way more than 30 seconds..

did it matter if it took 10 minutes if you had 5 people in zone when FE engaged it?

[Alarti0001]

did it matter if it took 10 minutes if you had 5 people in zone when FE engaged it?

5 people when FE tagged it... not when engaged.

[maverixdamighty]

5 people when FE tagged it... not when engaged.

post a ss of your raid force when fe had it engaged then.

[Alarti0001]

post a ss of your raid force when fe had it engaged then.

Lol i dont take SS's however, Its of no importance. If you think we would wipe to Fay you shouldnt have kited the mobs 2 minutes out of the way. You should have let us tag it and wipe to it. However, its Fay... 1 group mob.

[Halfelfbard]

Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

[maverixdamighty]

Lol i dont take SS's however, Its of no importance. If you think we would wipe to Fay you shouldnt have kited the mobs 2 minutes out of the way. You should have let us tag it and wipe to it. However, its Fay... 1 group mob.

maybe he kited around where he thought your 5 man raid was so we wouldn't get accused of training? fay died before you guys were there, move on.

[Relapse2]

typical TmO can't beat em cry to gm to get them suspended

[Tanthallas]

post a ss of your raid force when fe had it engaged then.

You had 5 people in the zone from when Fay was pulled to when Fay died.

[Rhambuk]

you could say, for the sake of argument, that knowing another raid was incoming and kiting it way out of its normal area for any reason could be raid interference.

[maverixdamighty]

you could say, for the sake of argument, that knowing another raid was incoming and kiting it way out of its normal area for any reason could be raid interference.

that makes no sense if you engage it before they are even there. so if you are the only raid in zone and you kite a mob around out of boredom it's "raid interference" if someone petitions? Look at the picture it's not that far out of the way anyways.

[Ele]

that makes no sense if you engage it before they are even there. so if you are the only raid in zone and you kite a mob around out of boredom it's "raid interference" if someone petitions? Look at the picture it's not that far out of the way anyways.

Basically.

Q: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited or occupied?
A: It is now against server policy to indefinitely kite, or otherwise keep occupied, a raid mob without intention of bringing it to your raid camp. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stall-kiting of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild, will result in disciplinary actions against the kiter's account, and possibly their raid/guild leadership.

[Rhambuk]

I'm just trying to understand both sides, I definitely get your plight. Those 5 tmo probably could've engaged him maybe not beat him but at least survived until more of their force arrived, I'm assuming they were extremely well geared. Whether they planned to engage with 5 or not doesn't matter as soon as the mob was being kited, and not engaged, it was stalling.

I don't agree with immediately petitioning and calling it stalling/raid interference on a technicality but when you make winning everything you have to win.

[maverixdamighty]

I'm just trying to understand both sides, I definitely get your plight. Those 5 tmo probably could've engaged him maybe not beat him but at least survived until more of their force arrived, I'm assuming they were extremely well geared. Whether they planned to engage with 5 or not doesn't matter as soon as the mob was being kited, and not engaged, it was stalling.

I don't agree with immediately petitioning and calling it stalling/raid interference on a technicality but when you make winning everything you have to win.

if i was going to kite/stall i would have kited to the opposite corner of the zone. he was still on a path up towards camp albeit slightly out of the way.

[Rhambuk]

If its a pull it would be a straight line to the camp once you turn and start running away from your camp your just kiting the mob around.

again I don't agree with being that insanely strict on a technicality but if thats how its labeled then thats how it is

[Rhambuk]

why was he turned around about in the first place if you were pulling there shouldve been no reason to turn him away, except to stall. whether thats to finish buffing or getting into position or raid interference.

again im just trying to understand how this happend =p

[maverixdamighty]

If its a pull it would be a straight line to the camp once you turn and start running away from your camp your just kiting the mob around.

again I don't agree with being that insanely strict on a technicality but if thats how its labeled then thats how it is

think anyone that has pulled a mob like that knows that isn't always the case especially in a zone like TD, sometimes you have to get that first landmark to get the proper course.

[Frieza_Prexus]

that makes no sense if you engage it before they are even there. so if you are the only raid in zone and you kite a mob around out of boredom it's "raid interference" if someone petitions? Look at the picture it's not that far out of the way anyways.

This has actually come up before. I believe the general consensus is that if there is no one present/mobilizing that you can kite all you want. However, the moment an opposing force would be in a position to begin their own pull your kite becomes "interference." As I mentioned before, there's a difference between delay tactics, and the puller messing up by taking the scenic route/no one else in the zone. In the latter, you simply risk having your kite peeled. In the case of a deliberate stalling, your risk GM intervention.

For example, if I kite Gorgolosk in sky with no one in the zone or on the way, this is perfectly admissible. However, the moment I know that an opposing force wishes to compete and that they are in a position to do so, I run the risk of either having it peeled or a GM summoned.

The rules are structured this way because every competing force has a potential interest in each specific raid mob. When you engage the mob you can kill it, at which point the opposing force's interest dissolves, or you could wipe at which point the opposing force's interests vests. That interest being the right to engage the mob. You can take any action you want that does not interfere with this interest. The moment your actions impinge upon reasonable claims to a potential or vested interest (reasonable as determined by the GMs), you face potential consequence.

[Ele]

think anyone that has pulled a mob like that knows that isn't always the case especially in a zone like TD, sometimes you have to get that first landmark to get the proper course.

Because sense heading: north is hard.

[maverixdamighty]

Because sense heading: north is hard.

i usually worry about getting out of range as fast as possible then worrying about sense heading, but to each their own.

[maverixdamighty]

This has actually come up before. I believe the general consensus is that if there is no one present/mobilizing that you can kite all you want. However, the moment an opposing force would be in a position to begin their own pull your kite becomes "interference." As I mentioned before, there's a difference between delay tactics, and the puller messing up by taking the scenic route/no one else in the zone. In the latter, you simply risk having your kite peeled. In the case of a deliberate stalling, your risk GM intervention.

For example, if I kite Gorgolosk in sky with no one in the zone or on the way, this is perfectly admissible. However, the moment I know that an opposing force wishes to compete and that they are in a position to do so, I run the risk of either having it peeled or a GM summoned.

The rules are structured this way because every competing force has a potential interest in each specific raid mob. When you engage the mob you can kill it, at which point the opposing force's interest dissolves, or you could wipe at which point the opposing force's interests vests. That interest being the right to engage the mob. You can take any action you want that does not interfere with this interest. The moment your actions impinge upon reasonable claims to a potential or vested interest (reasonable as determined by the GMs), you face potential consequence.

understood. so let's say you guys did peel him off the initial tag/kite whatever you want to call it. are you saying they would not have kited him around until more than 4 other people were in zone? supposedly he was engaged with 5 tmo in zone and died with still 5 tmo in zone. can't fathom a petition.

[Rhambuk]

Because sense heading: north is hard.

rofl

[Rhambuk]

understood. so let's say you guys did peel him off the initial tag/kite whatever you want to call it. are you saying they would not have kited him around until more than 4 other people were in zone? supposedly he was engaged with 5 tmo in zone and died with still 5 tmo in zone. can't fathom a petition.

What they would have done is irrelevant, they could say they planned to with 5 whether they did or not

[maverixdamighty]

What they would have done is irrelevant, they could say they planned to with 5 whether they did or not

they should have gotten there faster then. they got outmobilized and try to use rules when it's convenient for them. when they have a bard actually kiting mobs in loops it's because it's his first time pulling, so it's ok.

[Rhambuk]

they should have gotten there faster then. they got outmobilized and try to use rules when it's convenient for them. when they have a bard actually kiting mobs in loops it's because it's his first time pulling, so it's ok.

It's all about how you label things.

pulling no its raid interference
kiting no hes new

you shouldve thrown out the he snever pulled fay before line =p

[maverixdamighty]

It's all about how you label things.

pulling no its raid interference
kiting no hes new

you shouldve thrown out the he snever pulled fay before line =p

just pulled the we killed mob in an appropriate amount of time before tmo was even capable of it line. seems to have worked fine.

[Rhambuk]

just pulled the we killed mob in an appropriate amount of time before tmo was even capable of it line. seems to have worked fine.

I dunno I think 5 tmo might be able to do him, but then again ive been gone a while

[maverixdamighty]

I dunno I think 5 tmo might be able to do him, but then again ive been gone a while

probably could depending on the mix of classes you are right. would have to see the logs to see who they had. maybe next time he pops they can try again and get the pull themselves.

[Frieza_Prexus]

understood. so let's say you guys did peel him off the initial tag/kite whatever you want to call it. are you saying they would not have kited him around until more than 4 other people were in zone? supposedly he was engaged with 5 tmo in zone and died with still 5 tmo in zone. can't fathom a petition.

In this specific situation, I don't know. I was not present.

That said, here's some CONJECTURE: The situation/petition could have been resolved a number of ways. For example, if fay died and all 5 TMO in the zone were, say, level 55 rogues, AND the boat did not arrive in zone with reinforcements for at least 5 more minutes, a GM would be well within his rights to possibly say "tough luck TMO."

Of course, we need to remember that FE perhaps might have wiped. The kite, if it was a deliberate stalling tactic, might have enabled FE to kill it instead of wiping. This kite prevented the TMO reinforcements from exercising their rights to fight a mob that had wiped the previous raid.

On the flip side, if the 5 people were fully buffed and they consisted of two plate class tanks, two donals clerics, and a bard, those 5 might be capable of downing fay themselves. IB 8-manned Fay before VP was released. (I suspect it could be trio'd or quadded by an appropriately dedicated crew.) In this case, a petition would be wholly appropriate as that crew could down fay, or survive long enough for the cavalry to arrive.

It's easy to draw the extreme examples, but the general principles remain the same. If a GM determines, after a factual inquiry, that you have interfered with another raid's reasonable claim to a potential/vested interest in a raid target, you face possible consequences of a disciplinary nature.

[Rhambuk]

Wouldn't give em the chance =)

[Autotune]

Fay is naggy clone
ragefire is naggy clone

ragefire has been duo'd yeah?

5 people is overkill...

[dragonfists]

Fay is naggy clone
ragefire is naggy clone

ragefire has been duo'd yeah?

5 people is overkill...

5 people is overkill so you're saying you can kill fay with 2 like ragefire? I'd like to see that

[Autotune]

5 people is overkill so you're saying you can kill fay with 2 like ragefire? I'd like to see that

me too, get them to do it.

[Rhambuk]

FE gonna stand by and give tmo a mob?

[AenarieFenninRo]

if i was going to kite/stall i would have kited to the opposite corner of the zone. he was still on a path up towards camp albeit slightly out of the way.

Slightly out of the way?

I would say that a change in 2k of distance for someone bard speed... lets err on the side of super speed and say 30 seconds plus or minus is "slightly" - this would also allow you to hit /loc or sense heading numerous times.

A change in location by 6000 (from 1k to -5k), would take you a minute and a half at that rate...
http://i.imgur.com/PNfCe97.jpg

are you saying that in that amount of time, you never once hit /loc or sense heading? and that is why you were only "slightly" out of the way? The average person would look at your logic and see how skewed it was, but I mean, thats only an average person. It takes a special kind of person to consider your distance out of path "slight"

[Tanthallas]

That is easily 30 seconds out of the way with bard speed.

Draw a similar map of TMO's Sev kite, and it will take you in circles around the zone multiple times...

Yet they get 'leniency' because their puller was 'new'. Those new pullers cant help running in circles, can they?

[Alarti0001]

That is easily 30 seconds out of the way with bard speed.

Draw a similar map of TMO's Sev kite, and it will take you in circles around the zone multiple times...

Yet they get 'leniency' because their puller was 'new'. Those new pullers cant help running in circles, can they?

Your kite was over 4 mins long. If you pull straight to your camp it would have been less than have the total time of that kite. Sloan confirmed cheater

[Tanthallas]

Your kite was over 4 mins long. If you pull straight to your camp it would have been less than have the total time of that kite. Sloan confirmed cheater

You can do better than that

[dragonfists]

Slightly out of the way?

I would say that a change in 2k of distance for someone bard speed... lets err on the side of super speed and say 30 seconds plus or minus is "slightly" - this would also allow you to hit /loc or sense heading numerous times.

A change in location by 6000 (from 1k to -5k), would take you a minute and a half at that rate...
http://i.imgur.com/PNfCe97.jpg

are you saying that in that amount of time, you never once hit /loc or sense heading? and that is why you were only "slightly" out of the way? The average person would look at your logic and see how skewed it was, but I mean, thats only an average person. It takes a special kind of person to consider your distance out of path "slight"


1) Your blue line is the pull WITHOUT any deviation, not what some would consider deviation

2) Fay would not follow that line, as the puller is far ahead fay would follow a less exaggerated course.

3) It takes fay between 4-5 min to get to ogre isle from spawn loc down there on a straight pull, you're talking in 30 sec to 60 sec this added to the pull tops with a bard running that route

[Ele]

1) Your blue line is the pull WITHOUT any deviation, not what some would consider deviation

2) Fay would not follow that line, as the puller is far ahead fay would follow a less exaggerated course.

3) It takes fay between 4-5 min to get to ogre isle from spawn loc down there on a straight pull, you're talking in 30 sec to 60 sec this added to the pull tops with a bard running that route

Who is spinning now?

[bizzum]

I made that map! I'm famous!

BTW all of the dots are places I actaully /loc'd over Fay, so its quite accurate! /t Zagum if you wanna thank me!

[Tanthallas]

How is that spin?? Do you disagree with any of what he said?

1. The path Fay followed, like dragonfists said, would actually be in-between that red and blue line and highly skewed toward the blue until it leveled out. This is because the bard is running much faster than Fay to begin with. This means that even if the puller went 30-60seconds out of the way, the path Fay traveled would actually only reduce Fay's time of getting to ogre island by less than half of that.

2. Everyone deviates from the most direct path when pulling a mob. It is crucial in certain circumstances. If you want to claim raid interference, it should not be enough to merely show that the most direct path was deviated from...especially for what amounts to a small fraction of time on a 5 minute pull. If it were a substantial amount of the typical pull time, it would be completely understandable.

I want to see the 'direct' pulls that TMO consistently fails to do. The last Sev they got many moons ago and the last Talendor would be far worse 'kiting' then what happened here. We arent desperate enough to have a camera man follow you around, however...

[Ele]

How is that spin?? Do you disagree with any of what he said?

1. The path Fay followed, like dragonfists said, would actually be in-between that red and blue line and highly skewed toward the blue until it leveled out. This is because the bard is running much faster than Fay to begin with. This means that even if the puller went 30-60seconds out of the way, the path Fay traveled would actually only reduce Fay's time of getting to ogre island by less than half of that.

2. Everyone deviates from the most direct path when pulling a mob. It is crucial in certain circumstances. If you want to claim raid interference, it should not be enough to merely show that the most direct path was deviated from...especially for what amounts to a small fraction of time on a 5 minute pull. If it were a substantial amount of the typical pull time, it would be completely understandable.

I want to see the 'direct' pulls that TMO consistently fails to do. The last Sev they got many moons ago and the last Talendor would be far worse 'kiting' then what happened here. We arent desperate enough to have a camera man follow you around, however...

I made that map! I'm famous!

BTW all of the dots are places I actaully /loc'd over Fay, so its quite accurate! /t Zagum if you wanna thank me!

Someone is lying. I'll believe what the fraps shows. :)

[Tanthallas]

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD90aUmv8Is

THIS is a kite/stall. Thanks.

[Godefroi]

Why is TMO so mad about fay ?

Oh ya, they didnt get the loot, we did :D

[Ele]

We arent desperate enough to have a camera man follow you around, however...

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD90aUmv8Is

THIS is a kite/stall. Thanks.

Now you change your story?

[bizzum]

What else am I supposed to do drunk as fuck at 3AM Tanthallas, /q and wack it? Hm.... on second thought....

[Ele]

What else am I supposed to do drunk as fuck at 3AM Tanthallas, /q and wack it? Hm.... on second thought....

Calm down young one, still early on the west coast.

[Eccezan]

=-)

How is that spin?? Do you disagree with any of what he said?

1. The path Fay followed, like dragonfists said, would actually be in-between that red and blue line and highly skewed toward the blue until it leveled out. This is because the bard is running much faster than Fay to begin with. This means that even if the puller went 30-60seconds out of the way, the path Fay traveled would actually only reduce Fay's time of getting to ogre island by less than half of that.

2. Everyone deviates from the most direct path when pulling a mob. It is crucial in certain circumstances. If you want to claim raid interference, it should not be enough to merely show that the most direct path was deviated from...especially for what amounts to a small fraction of time on a 5 minute pull. If it were a substantial amount of the typical pull time, it would be completely understandable.

I want to see the 'direct' pulls that TMO consistently fails to do. The last Sev they got many moons ago and the last Talendor would be far worse 'kiting' then what happened here. We arent desperate enough to have a camera man follow you around, however...


The red line is the ACTUAL path that faydedar took from locs zagum took following FAYDEDAR, not not your bard. Given your logic though, you are saying that you took an even more severe stalling route than faydedar did since "the bard is so far in front of fay." I think this warrants a second week of suspension on top of the first, cheater. Not only a cheater, but trying to lie and spin your way out of it.

Forceful Entry, clearly cheating their way for some mobs, only to give loot back a bit later. Have a nice vacation sloan bard account.

[dragonfists]

The red line is the ACTUAL path that faydedar took from locs zagum took following FAYDEDAR, not not your bard. Given your logic though, you are saying that you took an even more severe stalling route than faydedar did since "the bard is so far in front of fay." I think this warrants a second week of suspension on top of the first, cheater. Not only a cheater, but trying to lie and spin your way out of it.

Forceful Entry, clearly cheating their way for some mobs, only to give loot back a bit later. Have a nice vacation sloan bard account.

So at what point on the red line did tmo have actual raid force in zone? Oh yeah when the boat from oasis zoned in while FE had Fay half dead.

BTW, fay takes closer to 7min to pull to camp even on a straight pull.. im uploading one of my fraps now of a straight pull to isle with /loc's along the way, its a 7min 30sec pull. What's the run speed of fay? You put on jboots (still faster than fay) and run from spawn to ogre in under 4 min as Alarti asserts is the maximum time for pull w/o it being a stall.

http://i45.tinypic.com/20apcfm.jpg

[dragonfists]

Your kite was over 4 mins long. If you pull straight to your camp it would have been less than have the total time of that kite. Sloan confirmed cheater


Lay off the special sauce

[Ele]

So at what point on the red line did tmo have actual raid force in zone? Oh yeah when the boat from oasis zoned in while FE had Fay half dead.

BTW, fay takes closer to 7min to pull to camp even on a straight pull.. im uploading one of my fraps now of a straight pull to isle with /loc's along the way, its a 7min 30sec pull. What's the run speed of fay? You put on jboots (still faster than fay) and run from spawn to ogre in under 4 min as Alarti asserts is the maximum time for pull w/o it being a stall.

http://i45.tinypic.com/20apcfm.jpg

Can I quote you on that?

[bizzum]

Dragonfists, are you really going to make a fool of yourself, or do I have to upload my fraps? That is the fucking funniest thing I've ever seen. I may have been wasted, but not THAT wasted.

[bizzum]

Im sure by "one" of your fraps you mean a time you pulled it when you didn't kite it to the other side of the zone too lol

[Eccezan]

So at what point on the red line did tmo have actual raid force in zone? Oh yeah when the boat from oasis zoned in while FE had Fay half dead.

BTW, fay takes closer to 7min to pull to camp even on a straight pull.. im uploading one of my fraps now of a straight pull to isle with /loc's along the way, its a 7min 30sec pull. What's the run speed of fay? You put on jboots (still faster than fay) and run from spawn to ogre in under 4 min as Alarti asserts is the maximum time for pull w/o it being a stall.

http://i45.tinypic.com/20apcfm.jpg



I was in zone. 1 HEDS wizard and a few friends can demolish faydedar, young raider. Your question is off target though and you are deflecting the point. If you pull a dragon you cannot stall kite when theres competing members in zone. PERIOD.

Let me tell you the real reason he kited it though. Yea lets talk about the elephant in the room. A direct pull of fay to ogre island would have caused you to wipe, and you know this. Sloan recognized he tagged it too early and wantsd to.buy time. We got it on fraps and now sloan, shinko, and forceful entry have egg on their face.

[dragonfists]

Are you saying that the run from spawn to ogre isle can be done in under 4 min?

Because you're the one who will be shown to be a fool

[Eccezan]

Are you saying that the run from spawn to ogre isle can be done in under 4 min?

Because you're the one who will be shown to be a fool

Cheaters trying to justify their cheating stall tactics by arguing semantics.

Hows that workin for ya?

[Ele]

Are you saying that the run from spawn to ogre isle can be done in under 4 min?

Because you're the one who will be shown to be a fool

So you are conceding that Faydedar was kited and limiting the discussion to whether or not you can run from spawn to ogre island in 4 minutes?

[dragonfists]

Im sure by "one" of your fraps you mean a time you pulled it when you didn't kite it to the other side of the zone too lol

We've killed fay a lot, I've tracked and pulled fay a lot, I always pull west/north like the route I've shown as do many others. I haven't seen your fraps, nor has anyone else so why don't you show it?

FE and TMO and BDA and whoever has ever camped Fay does the same, batphone, race to tag, pull it in while everyone logs in and hope its killed. I logged on while that pull was already halfway up to ogre isle (I was at spire) so I didnt see it and if he did take it the long way out then thats on him. Nobody in guild was saying to stall the pull.

I'm pointing out that you're becoming delusional here in your exaggerations about how long this pull really does take. Regular run speed is 29.8 coord's a sec, jboots add a 35% multiplier to that so roughly 40.2 coord's a sec. Jboots will slowly outrun fay so just say fay runs 40 coords a sec. You're running from neg 11k to pos 5k on range and lets just forget any travel on the domain. Thats 16k divided by 40 coords a sec or 400 sec to travel that distance 6 min 40 sec.

Has TMO stalled before: Yes, so point the finger but it's really just pointing back at you too.

It's all a bunch of pissing in the wind... so I'm done chiming in here. I had to chime in when I heard Alarti's dumbass comment about a sub 4min pull for Fay, many laughs ty..

[Ele]

We've killed fay a lot, I've tracked and pulled fay a lot, I always pull west/north like the route I've shown as do many others. I haven't seen your fraps, nor has anyone else so why don't you show it?

FE and TMO and BDA and whoever has ever camped Fay does the same, batphone, race to tag, pull it in while everyone logs in and hope its killed. I logged on while that pull was already halfway up to ogre isle (I was at spire) so I didnt see it and if he did take it the long way out then thats on him. Nobody in guild was saying to stall the pull.

I'm pointing out that you're becoming delusional here in your exaggerations about how long this pull really does take. Regular run speed is 29.8 coord's a sec, jboots add a 35% multiplier to that so roughly 40.2 coord's a sec. Jboots will slowly outrun fay so just say fay runs 40 coords a sec. You're running from neg 11k to pos 5k on range and lets just forget any travel on the domain. Thats 16k divided by 40 coords a sec or 400 sec to travel that distance 6 min 40 sec.

Has TMO stalled before: Yes, so point the finger but it's really just pointing back at you too.

It's all a bunch of pissing in the wind... so I'm done chiming in here. I had to chime in when I heard Alarti's dumbass comment about a sub 4min pull for Fay, many laughs ty..

Yes or no, was Faydedar pulled along the red line you posted on your map?

[Splorf22]

So in the end the GMs suspended Franswa(?) but left the loot with FE?

[dragonfists]

Yes or no, was Faydedar pulled along the red line you posted on your map?

Is your name Corky? Are you special? Read my post you quoted: You're answer's in there

[Ele]

Is your name Corky? Are you special? Read my post you quoted: You're answer's in there

Yes or No, stop dodging. I will subpoena if needed and seek relief from the court.

[Tanthallas]

Let me tell you the real reason he kited it though. Yea lets talk about the elephant in the room. A direct pull of fay to ogre island would have caused you to wipe, and you know this. Sloan recognized he tagged it too early and wantsd to.buy time.

Unfortunately for your elephant in the room or whatever bullshit you are spewing now, Sloan was on Kira...not the Bard. Sloan was probably smoking a cigarette, because he was waiting on the raft in OASIS with the entire TMO raid force.

Keep trying to get in my head though. It turns me on.

[Ele]

Unfortunately for your elephant in the room or whatever bullshit you are spewing now, Sloan was on Kira...not the Bard. Sloan was probably smoking a cigarette, because he was waiting on the raft in OASIS with the entire TMO raid force.

Keep trying to get in my head though. It turns me on.

Should discourage your guildmates from smoking; it is an unhealthy activity.

[Servellious]

laundry set to spin cycle.

[Tanthallas]

TMO cant outmobilize FE on Fay any longer; they follow them around with camera men both gaining vital experience on how to do shit right and trying to find some formal line to petition them on.

What are you going to do when we come for your VP mobs?

Few more trak teeth....

[Tanthallas]

Keep trying to spam to hide this, by the way; I will just keep posting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD90aUmv8Is

Eccezan has the balls to call our Fay pull cheating in light of this too. So money.

[OforOppression]

?

[Clark]

no one cares faggots jerk off to it in /gu imo

lol

[Alarti0001]

TMO cant outmobilize FE on Fay any longer; they follow them around with camera men both gaining vital experience on how to do shit right and trying to find some formal line to petition them on.

What are you going to do when we come for your VP mobs?

Few more trak teeth....

You have 59 trak teeth....how long is that line going to last?

[Clark]

Implying anything to do with Everquest is a real "achievement". This statement sheds a lot of light on Eccezan's life.

lmao

[Tanthallas]

You have 59 trak teeth....how long is that line going to last?

If you look more closely at our members only forums, which you clearly have access to, you will see that you are counting ALTs as well. We have about 40 keyed people, and field about half to two thirds of them at any point in time.

We must spare a good group of them or more to be our train/countertrain team, leaving us with a pretty small force for actually killing. Uncontested (i.e., untrained) this would be enough for all but possibly Hoshkar. If we are to adequately compete with TMO, I would like to have a consistent dragon killing crew of 30, not counting the train team.

That is half of what TMO rolls in there with, so spare me the bullshit champ.

[Autotune]

only need about 3-5 counter trainers, if they are good...nvm

[Tanthallas]

depends on how many TMO are at it...one for every two TMO seems to work fine as a rule for FE.

[Alarti0001]

If you look more closely at our members only forums, which you clearly have access to, you will see that you are counting ALTs as well. We have about 40 keyed people, and field about half to two thirds of them at any point in time.

We must spare a good group of them or more to be our train/countertrain team, leaving us with a pretty small force for actually killing. Uncontested (i.e., untrained) this would be enough for all but possibly Hoshkar. If we are to adequately compete with TMO, I would like to have a consistent dragon killing crew of 30, not counting the train team.

That is half of what TMO rolls in there with, so spare me the bullshit champ.

TMO killed dragons today with 32 :) and we have killed with much less. You scared brah?

[Kagatob]

TMO killed dragons today with 32 :) and we have killed with much less. You scared brah?

Spin Spin Spin

[Alarti0001]

Spin Spin Spin

Truth is never spin. Derp Derp Derp

You are becoming quite a little stalker of me =) Control your obsession

[Kagatob]

Truth is never spin. Derp Derp Derp

You are becoming quite a little stalker of me =) Control your obsession

Prove it.

[Tanthallas]

TMO had 45 in zone, I was there with Venader.

Nice try.

[Kagatob]

The plot thickens!

Spinning facts with non-facts are we Alarti?

[Tanthallas]

Either way though, when not being trained all dragons..even Hoshkar..can be killed with 30. Shit, half of them can be killed with 4 groups.

When TMO was suspended, a uncoordinated team of very poor class composition 18-26 killed everything in there but TMO and Nexona.

[manwithaplan11]

Some questions I have after reading this thread:

Did TMO award Mavtank a green scale from their bank?

Can TMO outmobilize FE on anything?

[Alarti0001]

The plot thickens!

Spinning facts with non-facts are we Alarti?

Lol you choose to believe sloan as fact and not me..... where are the facts? Your filter is broken. We didnt get above 40 until PD was dead.... Nexona only had 41 =)

[Kagatob]

Lol you choose to believe sloan as fact and not me..... where are the facts? Your filter is broken. We didnt get above 40 until PD was dead.... Nexona only had 41 =)

Where are they indeed. Where are yours? Keep talking out of your ass boy.

[Alarti0001]

Where are they indeed. Where are yours? Keep talking out of your ass boy.

DKP logs : )

[finalgrunt]

On a quick note, I don't think anyone can compare 32 players with mostly BiS gear / fully VP geared, who's been practicing for a full year to a new crew.

As far as I remember, at the beginning TMO numbers were not even close to that 32 figure. Pretty much double of that.

[Alarti0001]

On a quick note, I don't think anyone can compare 32 players with mostly BiS gear / fully VP geared, who's been practicing for a full year to a new crew.

As far as I remember, at the beginning TMO numbers were not even close to that 32 figure. Pretty much double of that.

Prob roughly the same... esp since we didnt have as many keys.

[Kagatob]

DKP logs : )

Facts you hold on your own and don't divulge to the public and just want us to trust you on.

TL:DR Pics or it didn't happen.

[manwithaplan11]

Some questions I have after reading this thread:

Did TMO award Mavtank a green scale from their bank?

Can TMO outmobilize FE on anything?

[bizzum]

Some questions I have after reading this thread:

Did TMO award Mavtank a green scale from their bank?

Can TMO outmobilize FE on anything?

Does Mavtank have epics now?

Wat?

All you have to do it watch 3 fucking seconds, look at the loc, and then realize "Wow, hes on the island where the shuttles Butcherblock land, that's fucked up." I will admit, however, that is a very boring video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdKpxLpVL2A

[Godefroi]

So lemme resume here :

TMO starts getting butthurt FE locks everything but trak/ct, they then manage to have a fraps of our fay pull, and pétition it for being too long when they had only 5 in zone ?

Damn, you guys can't take losing lol.

We saw that in fear btw, gratz on Bann dosxx, thanks for the trains TMO, cant wait to bann another main in your guild :D

[Hailto]

Does Mavtank have epics now?

Wat?

All you have to do it watch 3 fucking seconds, look at the loc, and then realize "Wow, hes on the island where the shuttles Butcherblock land, that's fucked up." I will admit, however, that is a very boring video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdKpxLpVL2A

All this video does is make you look like a whiny bitch. Petitioning gm's as another guild out mobilizes you and then gets a raid kill. Lol

[Relapse2]

All this video does is make you look like a whiny bitch. Petitioning gm's as another guild out mobilizes you and then gets a raid kill. Lol

[SamwiseRed]

no offense but that is the most depressing teamspeak ive ever heared.

[Atennu]

All this video does is make you look like a whiny bitch. Petitioning gm's as another guild out mobilizes you and then gets a raid kill. Lol

[Kagatob]

All this video does is make you look like a whiny bitch. Petitioning gm's as another guild out mobilizes you and then gets a raid kill. Lol

[Godefroi]

All this video does is make you look like a whiny bitch. Petitioning gm's as another guild out mobilizes you and then gets a raid kill. Lol

[maverixdamighty]

Here you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DD90aUmv8Is

THIS is a kite/stall. Thanks.

bump.

[Autotune]

FE clearly upset.

[falkun]

http://i.imgur.com/cSSsD8C.jpg?1

So did FE keep this Trak/Fay loot or was it awarded to TMO?

Did Alarti get his 100k (If TMO was awarded loot)?

Did Mav get his green scale (if FE was awarded loot)?

[maverixdamighty]

So did FE keep this Trak/Fay loot or was it awarded to TMO?

Did Alarti get his 100k (If TMO was awarded loot)?

Did Mav get his green scale (if FE was awarded loot)?

Still unresolved apparently. If TMO gets the loot while they had a bard,druid,wizard, mage in the zone at the TOD something is awfully wrong though. Watch their video their kiter does a /who tmo and it shows who they have in zone around the 4m mark.

[falkun]

Does Mavtank have epics now?

Wat?

All you have to do it watch 3 fucking seconds, look at the loc, and then realize "Wow, hes on the island where the shuttles Butcherblock land, that's fucked up." I will admit, however, that is a very boring video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdKpxLpVL2A

So with Fay going up passed the boat graveyard (~1min from ogre island), TMO has 5 in zone, and FE has 19 in zone (from TMO Fraps). According to Xasten's own argument, TMO doesn't have a dog in that fight.

[falkun]

Zagum, thanks for killing your own argument. Mav, grats on green scales! (assuming Alarti's word means ANYTHING).

[Rhambuk]

What a pain in the ass catching up was, thats what I get for sleeping.

[falkun]

Because sense heading: south is hard.

FTFY. In honor of Zagum's fine efforts, I present Supremecy displaying TMO pulling Sev around CoM. Here are the /loc points I read off the youtube (pardon the 360p quality, and I can't figure out the last two). I end the graphic with Sev clearly pathing passed the ruins.

1800, -1800
1224, -2341
587, -2400
-75, -2545
-800, -2850
-1590, -5600???
-1912, -5071???

http://i.imgur.com/3yWI9ei.jpg

Now, TMO states they only recruit "the best of the best", those who are L60 with full resist gear and full progress on their VP keys. So, we can conclude the puller of Sev knows his way around EJ, so therefore the puller purposely kited a raid mob that spawns in the Northwest corner of the zone around a recognizable landmark on the Eastern edge of the zone before pulling him back Southwest towards (what I assume is) TMO's raidforce.

So what is it TMO, do you in fact recruit noobies? Or are you kiting a raid mob? That path is worse than Fay, there's a lot more open water in TD than there is open forest in EJ.

[Rhambuk]

where did the fight occur on that map?

[falkun]

I believe TMO fights Sev around the TT zone line, maybe just West. But you'd have to ask TMO for their super secret raid strat to be sure.

[falkun]

Since the easiest way to EJ is to Evac, there is no reason not to gather either at one of the two evac points (on the West side of the zone), or at TT zone-line (FoB is out of the question due to the cliff along the West side of the zone). If you are pulling Sev and you go over one of the roads that bisect the zone...you're doing it wrong.

[Funkutron5000]

FTFY. In honor of Zagum's fine efforts, I present Supremecy displaying TMO pulling Sev around CoM. Here are the /loc points I read off the youtube (pardon the 360p quality, and I can't figure out the last two). I end the graphic with Sev clearly pathing passed the ruins.

1800, -1800
1224, -2341
587, -2400
-75, -2545
-800, -2850
-1590, -5600???
-1912, -5071???

http://i.imgur.com/3yWI9ei.jpg

Now, TMO states they only recruit "the best of the best", those who are L60 with full resist gear and full progress on their VP keys. So, we can conclude the puller of Sev knows his way around EJ, so therefore the puller purposely kited a raid mob that spawns in the Northwest corner of the zone around a recognizable landmark on the Eastern edge of the zone before pulling him back Southwest towards (what I assume is) TMO's raidforce.

So what is it TMO, do you in fact recruit noobies? Or are you kiting a raid mob? That path is worse than Fay, there's a lot more open water in TD than there is open forest in EJ.

Falkun doing God's work.

[Rhambuk]

If they were fighting him at TT i dont see an issue with the pull, its not a straight line but unlike TD there are mobs in the middle of the zone so to avoid adds which is common sense youd follow the zone wall south then west. why would they pull him to the left of com through the middle of zone and train themselves with a bunch of lb crap when they could just go around.

again its different than td becuase there are wandering mobs

[Hurley]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdKpxLpVL2A

rofl, you gotta be kidding me... GMs laughed at this right?

[falkun]

If they were fighting him at TT i dont see an issue with the pull, its not a straight line but unlike TD there are mobs in the middle of the zone so to avoid adds which is common sense youd follow the zone wall south then west. why would they pull him to the left of com through the middle of zone and train themselves with a bunch of lb crap when they could just go around.

again its different than td becuase there are wandering mobs

I've pulled Sev more than 5 times on this server, more than anyone not in TMO/FE. And I've probably been one of the lowest level bards to make the pull considering I just got 60 in the last month. I have never brought more than 1 add to the raid while pulling Sev STRAIGHT South from the stairs to the plateau. I guarantee TMO pathed by more mobs kiting Southeast around COM and then Southwest back to TT than they would have if they had pulled straight South to TT.

[Hurley]

FTFY. In honor of Zagum's fine efforts, I present Supremecy displaying TMO pulling Sev around CoM. Here are the /loc points I read off the youtube (pardon the 360p quality, and I can't figure out the last two). I end the graphic with Sev clearly pathing passed the ruins.

1800, -1800
1224, -2341
587, -2400
-75, -2545
-800, -2850
-1590, -5600???
-1912, -5071???

http://i.imgur.com/3yWI9ei.jpg

Now, TMO states they only recruit "the best of the best", those who are L60 with full resist gear and full progress on their VP keys. So, we can conclude the puller of Sev knows his way around EJ, so therefore the puller purposely kited a raid mob that spawns in the Northwest corner of the zone around a recognizable landmark on the Eastern edge of the zone before pulling him back Southwest towards (what I assume is) TMO's raidforce.

So what is it TMO, do you in fact recruit noobies? Or are you kiting a raid mob? That path is worse than Fay, there's a lot more open water in TD than there is open forest in EJ.


"I want to make sure we err on the side of leniency in cases like this one. We will certainly show the same leniency toward you or any other guild" - Sirken regarding TMO kite of Sev.

[Rhambuk]

I've pulled Sev more than 5 times on this server, more than anyone not in TMO/FE. And I've probably been one of the lowest level bards to make the pull considering I just got 60 in the last month. I have never brought more than 1 add to the raid while pulling Sev STRAIGHT South from the stairs to the plateau. I guarantee TMO pathed by more mobs kiting Southeast around COM and then Southwest back to TT than they would have if they had pulled straight South to TT.

I'll take your word then as I have not fought sev on this server. just trying to understand the decisions made. why one raid its okay and one way its not.

(without all the tinfoil hat conspiracies)

[falkun]

On another note, if you want to "follow a zone wall" to avoid adds, you pull him along the bottom side of the plateau (western lower-half zone edge) until you hit the south wall, then run east until you hit TT zone-line. There is ZERO reason to cross the roads that bisect the zone. They are obvious, unlike the vast expanse of TD.