My proposal for Raiding guilds and GMs of P1999

[astarothel]

IF the server wants a fair play for EVERYONE, then we (yes, as a community) have found just the game for them.

http://webpages.scu.edu/ftp/jhhoward/images/world-of-warcraft-logo.jpg

[bullet]

I'm down for some classic WoW!

[astarothel]

Yeah. Classic was actually fun. Maybe it had to do something with kazzak and all those corrupted emerald dream dragons top end guilds had to compete to kill...

[Toony]

Mobilization and camping are the exact same thing.

Mobilization requires movement, camping is stationary. Mobilization requires effort and at least some minor thought beforehand, camping requires you to be awake, if even that.

[nerfed]

bind and gate is hard stuff.

[astarothel]

bind and gate is hard stuff.

Least you'd still get to actually play your character...

[Kinamur1999]

camping requires you to be awake, if even that.

Currently requires your character to be logged in. So go to work or take a nap but don't worry, your camp is still yours!

[Alleusion]

GMs used to just despawn mobs if there was drama. It was tough but fair, no one could claim favouritism then!

Until the day that Brenlo spawned 5 Ragefires back to back because the guilds wouldn't quit fighting and no one was willing to back down or gtfo out of Skyfire. That night the cleric epic was changed to the current one on live where you hand in pearls to the chick in SF to spawn the dragon.

[Aadill]

i dont get why people dont see PuRaids...
theres one right now in PoHate with 3 different guilds..
Trans,Dutchmasters,Divinity..

why doesn't everyone just work together on trash mobs rather than qq and just help eachother out? this raid went very well as i should say.

There have been raids in zones with multiple guilds and it's good when they even share drops instead of letting them rot. Pickup raids were one of my favorite things on live so I'm a big fan of seeing it happen here, as well.

[Aadill]

If I had to choose something for rotations, it would definitely be more a type of suicide kings, rather than just /random. Why? Because random fucks some people while others have a horseshoe permanently entrenched up their ass.

Using something like suicide kings would let guilds choose to pass on the mob or take the suicide.

Raid Rotation Suicide Kings

/random for initial guild placement on the suicide list. Let's say it ends up something like this

1. DA
2. Divinity
3. IB
4. Remedy

Guilds are individually responsible for their own tracking and mob intel.
"No one told us it was up" is not an excuse.

Let's say IB, Divinity, and DA all have trackers in SolB, or intel on a Naggy pop. DA as first on the list has 5 minutes to decide if they will mobilize for Naggy, or pass.

If they mobilize, they have an hour to kill the target (if something has trash like a full zone pop in a plane this might have to be longer, also I'd include attempts that start before the end of that hour to wrap up). Choosing to mobilize for that target will drop them one spot beneath the lowest of the three that were present/aware of the spawn -- they have suicided to the bottom of those people on the list.

If the first guild passes it goes to the next guild down the list who has 5 minutes to decide if they will suicide, and so on.

If it gets to the bottom, obviously the guild at the bottom of those involved can take the raid target and they have nowhere to go. I seriously doubt that it makes it that far down the list though with so few targets in classic.


===

Do I like rotations? No, I think they're pants on head retarded. If I am going to see one implemented though I would want to see one that emphasized tracking and intel rather than OMG OUR TURN EVEN THO WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS UP.

Addendum: mobilization is important. If you can't get that shit down in an hour, or you opt to take the raid target but can't get enough people, sucks to be you -- you just suicided for no reason.

Necrod this idea because I do think it holds some interesting possibilities. The nice thing about this is that it is open to almost any encounter. I think the timers and whatnot could use some tweaking. However, it needs special cases and as of right now would have to have some sort of workable solution for Plane of Sky when it comes out.

I think we can come up with some good ideas, here. I know some other solutions are in the works and at least this thread sparked the conversation.

[mitic]

http://webpages.scu.edu/ftp/jhhoward/images/world-of-warcraft-logo.jpg

the irony lies within

every poster whining in all of those newly arised "raid-threads" would perfectly fit into the wow-universe

[sidgb]

Whatever you do, don't forget this clause:

Should a system be agreed upon by a select group of "elite" guilds that excludes any guild, alliance or PuG raid. The excluded raid groups are not bound by the rules agreed upon without their consent and may engage the target in any manner they deem necessary to force recognition of their clam.

[Aadill]

Whatever you do, don't forget this clause:

Should a system be agreed upon by a select group of "elite" guilds that excludes any guild, alliance or PuG raid. The excluded raid groups are not bound by the rules agreed upon without their consent and may engage the target in any manner they deem necessary to force recognition of their clam.

Basically you'd revert to server rules in that case - claim a mob with 15 people, no training, no KSing.

[Thac0]

So much tears over items that you gon replace as soon as Kunark drops..

[Aadill]

So much tears over items that you gon replace as soon as Kunark drops..

The point of these rules are not only to diffuse the situation as it stands now but lay down a network for the entire server population that goes beyond "what Guild X wants."

[sidgb]

Basically you'd revert to server rules in that case - claim a mob with 15 people, no training, no KSing.

If server rules force other raids to meet a higher bar for content access ... then no.

They participate in the same ruleset or are governed by no ruleset.

[Aadill]

Then the only claim they will have is not to be KSd.

I'm not saying a guild will leapfrog, but I'm also not saying they won't. The rules are out the door on both ends if you don't comply. Being a renegade doesn't mean you just get to do what you want, it means no one else will respect you. Maybe they'll envy you a little bit but in the end you're still on your own.

[sidgb]

Then the only claim they will have is not to be KSd.

I'm not saying a guild will leapfrog, but I'm also not saying they won't. The rules are out the door on both ends if you don't comply. Being a renegade doesn't mean you just get to do what you want, it means no one else will respect you. Maybe they'll envy you a little bit but in the end you're still on your own.

It's not about being a renegade or losing respect. Does anyone respect a whipped dog that cowers on command? If an oligarchy of elite guilds sets up a system to exclude and or limit competition from outside their circle they are already showing disrespect and forcing those excluded to adopt other means.

If those excluded are KS'ed or leapfrogged it only confirms the ill will of the origonal pact.

[Molitoth]

SOE sat on this for awhile with the same problems and you know what solution they eventually came up with?

Instancing.

I know, I know, instancing is for pussies.

But it does solve the problem.

Pick your poison. Solution or no solution.

[astarothel]

It's not about being a renegade or losing respect. Does anyone respect a whipped dog that cowers on command? If an oligarchy of elite guilds sets up a system to exclude and or limit competition from outside their circle they are already showing disrespect and forcing those excluded to adopt other means.

If those excluded are KS'ed or leapfrogged it only confirms the ill will of the origonal pact.

You get what you give and give what you get. Reciprocity is a bitch. Live by it, die by it.

[Aadill]

You get what you give and give what you get. Reciprocity is a bitch. Live by it, die by it.

What this guy said.

It's not that it's about ill-will or disrespect. It's about following a ruleset that is fair enough that you are given a chance. One problem I do find is that none of the suggestions thus far really *DO* offer much to pickup raids or what have you, so I can understand your viewpoint. Unfortunately very little "standing up" is going on from groups that aren't receiving what they perceive as a fair chance. The "fuck you" attitude can work if you have your shit together. I don't know what FB accomplished because I wasn't there at the time.

If you're willing to take the risk of not having anything to fall back on, then more power to you. Abacab is doing it. With the current ruleset it's difficult to maintain a force and therefore his claims to boss mobs aren't upheld. He is proving a point, though.

Whether we like it or not we are following the rules as they exist today. As many have said, it's not fun. Frankly I'm having a blast chit chatting with people and cracking jokes with some IB members while we all wait it out. I've helped get some gear for some applicants/new members and even got some gear for myself $$$. This doesn't work for everyone and I'm sure it eventually gets boring/frustrating.

[Toony]

SOE sat on this for awhile with the same problems and you know what solution they eventually came up with?

Instancing.

I know, I know, instancing is for pussies.

But it does solve the problem.

Pick your poison. Solution or no solution.

Yes ultimately they did introduce instancing, but not until after an expansion we wont be playing.

But yeah, this blades sharp on both sides.

[bufferofnewbies]

Everyone that complains that something isnt classical when it comes to raids should stop raiding. The 'origional concept' of eq did not have raiding on the list at all, it was supposed to be 6 man content only with some mobs just plain unkillable. That's why it never had a raid window to start with and you had to have someone in killing group hold the corpse until it opened up for whomever won the loot.

If anyone disagrees with my statement above, you should check out the uber loots on the origonal dragon kills. (Not the stuff given out later for it.)

[Wrei]

This sounds like a Chinese take on the Korean War. Please keep this kind of stuff out of the discussion.

Who are you again? I gave out a rather more truthful account of the brief raiding history on this server. Truth hurts, but it's relevant to point out how you guys are still spinning this thing into a "let's fix the problem here/If you try to spin your trolling". While ignoring the fact your the cause of it. Kind of like the guy who has his hand stuck in a vending machine, because he won't let go of that damn soda can. Just sad...



1. Having a hard server kick for AFKing is game changing for people other than raiders. If the server was running on a cable modem in someone's cellar and you want to keep the amount of data transfer down by keeping the population low, then fine. This server has a fairly pro setup and there is no reason to boot people off the server. If, perhaps, Rogean deems it reasonable to make it so as the server population grows, then so be it. This, however, is a "feature" that would have to be decided not by the players but by the GM staff. As the ruleset stands there is nothing against AFK camping. If they implemented this, their own server rules would be moot.

Something to note: a roll call clause was put into effect in the player made rulset to allow a guild to take rights from another guild if they were AFK to the point that they could not meet the minimum requirements to claim a raid force when a mob spawns. It has been used multiple times with little to no success. That tells me that there are enough people active that adding this rule will not alter the gamescape much.

Please explain to me how a 1 hour kick will affect a non raider. How is that game changing? The person sitting afk in EC will suddenly find himself on server select... The person in an xp zone gets affected how? I'll argue it may even prevent dumb deaths by going afk. Server saves some bandwidth as you kindly pointed out. If anything it will ONLY affect raiders. Your saying camping sucks...but will keep doing it because it's within the rules...and will veto this idea because it will adversely affect your guild. I'm sure if DA was dominating everything, you'd be the first in line to preach about non camping ;)


2. Dumesh's idea still focuses on FFA and is only really applicable, as he said, to outside boss encounters. There are no outside boss encounters right now that are appropriate for this sort of thing unless you have very particular stipulations for CT. For future encounters it may be useful but you're relying on everyone to have the same timer, and to respect it. Not to mention the fact that by attempting to steal agro, you're pretty much going against server rules of attempting to KS engaged mobs. Find me a situation where you're not going to have an opposing raid force attempting to agro the mob off of the original kiter. If, on the flipside, you are saying that once agro a guild would have 15 minutes to get ready and engage while the kiter(s) kite, we might be on to something. I will say that for all of the outside dragons in Kunark and Velious, this is a pretty good idea. A guild can claim the spawn by actually having it agroed. If their guild fails to mobilize and engage the target within a set time period, they would lose their claim. No other guild will be able to interact with the dragon unless the kiters from the first guild die. I would expect some level of whining and foul play, though. Damaging a mob to make it summon would be the biggest offense, here. In the event of that, I hope the guild with claim would be ready to engage very quickly, but it defeats the level of respect that would need to be present for this rule to work. If we can calm down the current raiding environment, I would consider this one hell of a pro idea for later expansions and hope that it could discussed in the next guild meeting!

The way I read it is, whoever tags the mob first has the rights to that mob for the next 15min. It's really simple... if you feel you can engage the mob then initiate the aggro. If your guild fails then you forfeit the right to the boss, so in essence no one will "accidentally" aggro a boss or claim another guild made me aggro the boss. Bosses requiring a planar clear can be worked out differently but can still be within the spirit of this new rule.


3. Increasing the spawn variance would be interesting but you're severely limiting the extent to which a raiding guild with the "kill the boss" mentality will even bother to log in. Whether or not this type of guild truly exists isn't apparent as of right now as the raiding climate is still in a state of flux. A flat timer before spawn variance even starts only pushes the window further out. Again, the same issue would exist. Since that timer would be known (or could be deduced) it only serves to increase the time between kills. If enough guilds are hot and bothered by the idea of a god or dragon kill, only seeing 2-3 a month is going to piss off a lot of people. On the flipside, this does make dragon and god loot more rare. I'd expect the market for CoFs and RBGs to maintain a highly inflated price for quite some time if either of these ideas were added. Not to say that it's bad but it would be a reasonable expectation. This would not affect overall "mudflation" too much but we'd still see sore spots in the market. I would go so far as to extend this to the idea that all drops should be more rare, whether through spawn rates or drop rate. It would give the game a more epic feeling, but to what extent is that a bad thing? And it's definitely not classic.

I don't know about your guild but I assure you IB will always bother to log on for boss kills with or without the variance. This serves to further deter "camping" which was the whole point of this thread no? Instead of 4 Nagafen we might see 2~3... Will the casual player care? No, how is that ever going to affect them? Will the campers care? Fu@#$ yeah! It's one thing to ask someone to sit afk for 5 days but 10? Geez, there are human limits to going full retard. Once again this is to PREVENT camping... which was what we're trying to do here to find a solution. Mudflation? Are you serious? How many CoF and RBB's are floating in the EC tunnel? Your pro camping stance is understandable but come on that's some weak argument there...


4. I don't even know what this would accomplish. As it stands the only bans that took effect were those when guilds first started bickering, and members of guilds that couldn't stop backtalking to GMs. As far as the events go that have been posted on the forums, any bans that occured were not about making stories up but basically disrespecting the staff. There has been suspicion of some activities between guilds but no hard evidence is available either way and because of that, there is very little to gain from it. If anything I'd see this more as an attempt to foster more intervention from GMs by creating a GM/Guide rule that says, "just ban us if we are terrible people" and not so much a deterrent to any particular actions. Enough things are possible in this game that it takes way too much proof to prove. This is a video game, not a courthouse.

How about it will bring back some INTEGRITY? Yeah I know it's a hard quality to find in your heart but think about it. If you slap the guy crying wolf every week he'll whine about why he got slapped. If you gank the guy crying wolf every week, we won't ever have to hear his retarded lies. Seriously, lying/fabricating/distorting the truth is a bad thing in case you didn't know. There's NO CONSEQUENCES at this time... which allows sketchbags to pretty much claim/say anything without fear from repercussion. So why is it bad to perma ban someone that was proven to have blatantly lied about an event going forward? Some will still try but will at least pay the price for it if they are ever caught. You are correct, this is a video game and not a RL courthouse... if so why do we bother with rules? Why not make everything FFA, train each other... Because we want people to enjoy their experience playing this game. If getting lied to in order to get a favorable GM decision is your idea of fun then I got nothing to say on this matter.

PS: Seriously who are you again?

[astarothel]

PS: Seriously who are you again?

Funny. Most people know who Aadill is. Who are you?

[Wrei]

Funny. Most people know who Aadill is. Who are you?
I'm the IB guy who took a break and came back~ My question was rather about "what guild are you from?" I'm deducing it's DA but shrug could be wrong~

Speaking of which who are you? I'm kidding... the only thing I'd like to add is, if we're all unhappy about the camping situation (an assumption i know), we should put as many deterrents as possible. Go with the full measure of things instead of doing it in a half ass fashion.

[Erasong]

the only thing I'd like to add is, if we're all unhappy about the camping situation (an assumption i know), we should put as many deterrents as possible. Go with the full measure of things instead of doing it in a half ass fashion.

[Aadill]

I cannot verify or deny your claims of truth, but I am glad you understand my reference. The important thing to note is that from an outsiders point of view, it doesn't look to be an impartial, accurate timeline. Perhaps it is, but I know for a fact one of your points is wrong. DA was formed to remove itself from Salty's leadership. As of right now, I'm under the perception we are adjusting to the fact that a) FB rejected the original raid rules and b) DA never had a say in them.

On to your counterpoints: Upon further clarification I do see what you are saying, but there are issues with where these rules may belong.

1) Game changing is game changing. I don't care who it affects or to what extent it affects them unless it's the owner of the server/staff, because you are altering the code of the game with the intention to affect, even as you say, part of the population of the server. As I said, I'm mainly pointing out the fact that this is not a serverwide population decision until the GMs decide to make it one. To clarify: this doesn't belong in a ruleset for raids. It is a separate suggestion that should be brought up with the GMs with listed arguments as to why it should be put in place. With that said, multiple people have said there are ways around it so I'm not sure how much it actually provides in terms of a solid rule that is worth adding for the guilds to operate with civility.

2) I see this as a great possibility but it does not work in some situations. No raid force will keep their distance once the main target is in sight, because they want to be the ones to leapfrog and obtain agro first. That's why I am arguing that outdoor zone encounters that you see in Kunark and Velious makes this a valid idea but not for the encounters that exist right now. CT is a special case, Naggy and Vox are inside with limited space to agro/maintain agro and not pull on to your raid or another raid. Most of the other encounters also fall under this same category. I don't know how it worked before when things were still in a state of FFA, but I can imagine it wasn't pretty. Feel free to enlighten me, but I truly do not see how two, three, or four opposing raids are going to look at the current raid targets and consider that reasonable.

3) I kinda like the idea that the encounters would be slightly more rare, so I'm not disagreeing. I'm fairly certain that all of the guilds are willing to continue to log in but I'm simply pointing out the fact that if the majority of interest of any particular guild is simply for boss encounters, then very little else will go on and interest will be lost. That's a hypothetical that I cannot prove or disprove but I invite the probability of it to be discussed as an issue of server population. I assume that as a spokesman for IB you have discussed this with your new recruits as a possibility that less raids might be on the table and do indeed have their assurance on your claim.


4) We bother with rules because we should be able to follow them with civility. We bother with rules because it serves as a check to power and the lack thereof. I don't see the point of this rule only because it would probably be easier for the GM to look at the petition, jump to the zone, despawn the mob, and leave. No mediation, no squabble over whose evidence is more correct because it would merit nothing. Why, if they have this power, would they care to hear your case and my case about a situation? I unfortunately have not been present for the reasons that GMs have been summoned in the past but I read all the drama about it. I can claim suspicion about a lot of things, and I can claim admission of fault on others. The idea that the GMs favor any group gets old. We think you are favored, you think we are favored. We could run a statistical study on the number of times the GMs reluctantly log in and mediate issues between forces, and who they favor, or we could just stop this argument.

As for who I am: I am Aadill Pickle, class leader Ranger of Dark Ascension. I played a ranger because I literally love the idea of taking DTs and I like to always hear the sound of a barking dog every two seconds when I attack something. I honestly have no idea who you are other than from your two posts on this forum. I am not here to fight for my guild's wishes to beat you out on the majority of every cycle of mobs, nor am I here to express my guild's discontent about not getting the majority of every cycle of mobs. I am not here to shoot down every idea, only to give input and receive input back in hopes that we can expound upon those ideas that have merit and actually work something out that will result in LESS animosity among players. Competition is good and that is what makes this game great, but I do hope you're not rocking the boat just to rock the boat. We're all on it.

I have asked to attend the next meeting to further explore the ideas we've come up with and have not received an okay on this. With that in mind I am maintaining a forum presence to at least further some ideas here.


Also: Yes. No Half-assling it.

[Cyrano]

I'm all for less GM involvement and people getting to actually fight for shit.

My main concern is with the current rule set how does this affect Traknon? If you instill the rotation doesn't this hinder the server from developing a guild hierarchy and potentially injure chances at accessing and clearing VP?

Right now arguments about these mobs are moot. There are plenty of mobs and this server by no means has an inordinate amount of players. The problem is that too many people feel they should be given shots at mobs because a) they're seeking some form of nostalgia from live and can no longer offer the same time commitment that they did back on live or b) they don't realize that the server is too new for a raid guild hierarchy to be established. So what we end up with is a ridiculous amount of rules that are semi-enforced by GMs just enough to scare people into thinking they might be perma-banned for things that happened constantly on live with no repercussion outside of server blackballing or ridicule.

With that said, if this mindset continues into Kunark it will remain prevalent throughout the course of this server. The faster a guild can get what they need from a raid mob and move on to new content the quicker the people with less time, dedication, or desire to play can access that content. My guild currently doesn't kill Maestro simply because we don't need anything from him. Will this change is we get a bard app? Most likely. But after a few kills he'll be back to being off of our radar.

So my solution has been and remains to take the gloves off and let us play. You guys don't care about the disdain and sour attitudes between IB and DA, what you more casual players want is to live your lives while experiencing some fun nostalgic events and having fun with people you enjoy playing EQ with. We are not of the same mold at this stage in our lives and the longer we're forced to share mobs instead of rightfully competing for them the longer you guys are going to have to wait for us to move past those mobs.

[Molitoth]

Everyone that complains that something isnt classical when it comes to raids should stop raiding. The 'origional concept' of eq did not have raiding on the list at all, it was supposed to be 6 man content only with some mobs just plain unkillable. That's why it never had a raid window to start with and you had to have someone in killing group hold the corpse until it opened up for whomever won the loot.

If anyone disagrees with my statement above, you should check out the uber loots on the origonal dragon kills. (Not the stuff given out later for it.)

Project1999 is a server set out to imitate classic as we once knew it as close as possible.

The problem with this is that you cannot imitate the 1999 player base mindset. People did not know what raiding was back then, except a certain few of us who happened to get to that state. Even when guilds had to compete for kills, it was 2 or maybe 3 guilds on a server which allowed a rotation to be possible.

With this server, the problem is that everyone has the raid-now mindset and there simply isn't enough to go around. These mobs have been killed over 10 years ago. The strats are not new, the items are not new, and everything is a cake-walk. There are now 4-5 guilds able to raid, and a lot more on the way.

I think the majority of us are here to relive the experience and have fun, and I think Instancing would be a good solution. Sure it would kill the fun of competition, but really is racing to a mob that fun? It doesn't seem like it with all the bitching in this thread.

Although even if this was a solution, could the dev's even implement it? It would most likely have to be VP, PoF, PoH, and PoS only. It would be hard to instance solb for naggy, and sebilis for Trak. Those dragons would still have to be first come first serve basis.

So in reality if the planes were instanced, there could still be the competition for Naggy, vox, trak, outdoor dragons, etc. Thus leaving something for the other guilds to do after they got beat to these mobs. Which might also fix the amount of item farming going on in lowerguk and every other named mob in game that drops decent loot. These people have nothing to do = farm items = lower end players no place to group for xp.

[xorbier]

“Before DA, IB was like a conventional raid guild. We'd have our small tracking team (like me!) watching for raid targets while everyone did their thing, whether online or offline.”

Hey Alawen, you forgot to mention the step of you flaming and trolling guilds you’re losing too in OOC. Don’t forget you’re a “straight shooter”.

[guineapig]

Everyone that complains that something isnt classical when it comes to raids should stop raiding. The 'origional concept' of eq did not have raiding on the list at all, it was supposed to be 6 man content only with some mobs just plain unkillable. That's why it never had a raid window to start with and you had to have someone in killing group hold the corpse until it opened up for whomever won the loot.

If anyone disagrees with my statement above, you should check out the uber loots on the origonal dragon kills. (Not the stuff given out later for it.)

I would love to see what those drops looked like. Anyone have links to them or screenshots?

[Chicka]

I would love to see what those drops looked like. Anyone have links to them or screenshots?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_TYvlC8IxUPM/S0HvwJCDVRI/AAAAAAAAECA/qfCX1KBBr1k/s400/dirty_underwear.JPG

[jilena]

I don't get how people can claim that mobilization and AFK camping are even remotely the same thing.

Mobilization:

1.) You play the game as you normally would.
2.) If something spawns while you are playing the game you haul ass to the nearest port place to get picked up, gate to one, eat a CT potion, use your skullcap, whatever you have to do to get there asap. Skip to step 6.)
3.) If nothing spawns while you are online or you are going to play an alt, you camp out in a convenient place for pickup should something spawn while you are offline.
4.) If nothing spawns while you are offline, go back to step 1.)
5.) If something spawns while you are offline and you get an IM, text message, or phone call, log in to your character at the convenient spot you logged out.
6.) Get ported to nearest point to mob to die.
7.) Rush to mob, hopefully get their first, kill it, and collect ph4tz.
8.) Go back to step one.

Camping:

1.) Move to camping spot
2.) Sit around or go afk til mob is spawned or you can't take any more.
3.) Mob spawns you try to kill it, get loots, etc.
4.) Go back to step 1.)

And while I know there are probably a few trackers that these things are identical for, this is how they work for 93.333_% of the players (assuming 15 players camping per guild). So this is what I am focusing on.

While there are some similarities... I would like to point out the most important difference being Step 1.) of mobilization: "play the game as you normally would".

If you cannot see how absurdly profound a difference this makes then you are beyond help. You have convinced yourself that what is best for you is the truth and you are no longer capable of rational thought. Because the difference is fucking HUGE. HUGE.

You can point fingers and call others greedy and claim whatever you want that somehow makes you right all you like. It doesn't change the fact that with a ruleset promoting camping in place at least 93.333_% of your camping raid force is no longer actually playing the game.

So, it doesn't matter that you believe you are fighting the good fight in your twisted mind, you are making the game an even shittier place to play, for your own greed, than the greedy guys before you were. Congrats, you win at being selfish.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

I don't get how people can claim that mobilization and AFK camping are even remotely the same thing... rational argument...Congrats, you win at being selfish.

^^ + 1

[Qaedain]

+2. Absolutely, incredibly right. Great post, Jilena.

[Aadill]

I could be wrong but I don't feel anyone believes camping is the same as mobilization.

However, it IS, a viable option as according to the ruleset as it exists today.

[jilena]

I am not gonna scroll back through all 29 pages to find the quotes but I believe someone even said something as dumb as "What's the difference between having 1 tracker afk camping the zone and 15 non-trackers?!". I mean seriously.

[sidgb]

On the up side, with all these 50's camping boss mobs that means they are not camping midlevel content to gear up their twinks.

Just looking at the bright side. :)

[Supreme]

Just keep things the way they are...there will never be a solution everyone agrees to as long as there is no final authority to enforce it.

[Nizzarr]

Lets not lie to ourselves here now. having trackers is one thing, second thing is camping out your mains where they need to be camped when you receive the call. Thats what IB and DA does and its almost the samething as having them afk camping.

Inny is due? you can bet your ass that the whole guild will be all camped at the same wizard spire just waiting for a port up.

Now tell me how is that much different than actually camping the zone? It's the same for all other raid mobs.

I also cannot see how you will stop camping with these current rules. I believe an agreement between IB and DA would probably put a stop to it.

Let's not fool ourselves here IB, what we've been doing the past 3 weeks is a non-declared rotation. It's just putting a hurt on both guild's members.. in the name of greed and "competition".

[girth]

Just wanted to show everybody what I posted on page 1 again:

If you want your mob every time its up and no competition - go play World of Warcraft.

I for one am tired of people who play 1/10th the time thinking they should have the same claim in the high-end as those who actually play hardcore.

Every single MMO in existence is the same: you get back what you put in. If you cannot put in as much as the next guy, don't expect to get what he got.

FFA with 15 minute timer is the best thing I have seen so far in this thread. Rotations are just stupid.

[jilena]

Lets not lie to ourselves here now. having trackers is one thing, second thing is camping out your mains where they need to be camped when you receive the call. Thats what IB and DA does and its almost the samething as having them afk camping.

Inny is due? you can bet your ass that the whole guild will be all camped at the same wizard spire just waiting for a port up.

Now tell me how is that much different than actually camping the zone? It's the same for all other raid mobs.

I also cannot see how you will stop camping with these current rules. I believe an agreement between IB and DA would probably put a stop to it.

Let's not fool ourselves here IB, what we've been doing the past 3 weeks is a non-declared rotation. It's just putting a hurt on both guild's members.. in the name of greed and "competition".

The difference as I explained in my post is, with a tracker and mobilization you have one person who is stuck sitting there the whole time. Everyone else can go play the game as they please, and just log out some place nice to get to the mob quickly. You still get to play your character, farm loot for alts, hang out with friends, and actually enjoy the game. Even if you are still a loser in the eyes of most for waking up at 3am to answer the batphone, at least it doesn't prevent you from playing the game when you are logged in. (unless you are the unlucky sucker who has to track).

This is VASTLY different from having 15-20 people's characters chained to a zone 24/7 waiting for a pop. I don't see how you can possibly think it's even remotely similar for anyone aside from the poor tracker.

[Ayen]

Mobilization and camping are the exact same thing. This is what you say in your post. So let me get this straight:

1. DA loses at mobilization.
2. DA changes server rules to camping.
3. DA loses at camping.

So if mobilization and camping are the exact same thing, and you lost at mobilization, what gave you the bright idea to change the rules to camping?
That, and the fact that mobilization and camping aren't even close to the same thing has me thoroughly confused.

So with your post, you're either A) Contradicting yourself, or, B) Making some sort of desperate attempt at flaming IB by quickly exiting the topic and accusing our entire guild of being unemployed, and making yourself look uneducated (in the sense that you have no clue as to the differences between mobilization and camping) in the process. So which is it?

I'm dying to know.

1). DA does fine at mobilization. Camping will get us our mobs guaranteed. We need to gear up and this is the quickest way to do it. DA has not been around for log at all. We don't have enough alts to camp out at every raid target.

2). DA did not change any rules. We are using the rules in place to get our mobs, you put in what you get out of this game. Just like all MMO's. I'm sorry IB has been dominating the sever since it has been around and you feel entitled to every mob. It's time to start adapting. Now at the first sign of adversity you bitch and moan.

3). How Do we lose at camping.. were 4/6 raid targets again this week. IB 2.

I'm not flaming anyone about being unemployed. DA has members who are as well. People need to understand whats happening here. Its not like a raid target spawns and the two guilds are scattered all over Norrath. Guilds know when raid targets are due. Its not a secret. People camp out in the zone or a zone away and wait for a text. All were doing is putting 15 in zone so that we can claim first shot to take down the mob. Its the path of least resistance to gearing out a guild.

So call mobilization what you will and keep crying about us camping were doing what we have to and putting in the time to claim our raid targets.

Ayen "Dark Ascension"

[G13]

This is VASTLY different from having 15-20 people's characters chained to a zone 24/7 waiting for a pop. I don't see how you can possibly think it's even remotely similar for anyone aside from the poor tracker.

People need to understand we all play this game with different motives. Some people like to farm. Some people like to craft. Twink. Raid, ect. There are many different reasons people play this game. DA and IB have been playing a much deeper strategic game than anyone else on the server for a long time now.

For some, the politics and guild vs guild strategy IS the game. Not farming. Not twinking. The raiding aspect of it is an afterthought. The mobs are just pieces in a much larger game. I don't begrudge anyone for taking the most efficient route to kill mobs. You people are acting like mobilization takes some type of skill or something. It doesn't. Yes, Everquest is cool and everything, but people need to realize it's a very flawed game. "racing" to any raid mob is a leapfrog quest, except for maybe in Fear. DA didn't write the raid rules. FB was not there when these rules were created. DA and IB are simply playing by the current rules in the most efficient way. I understand some people vehemently disagree with that and resent it, and they are entitled to their opinion.

People are trying to separate a method, like its somehow more noble to camp in WC and get ported into a zone than it is to camp out or sit afk waiting for the mob. People are trying to paint how you should play Everquest in box based upon how they think it should be played. That isn't truth though. Your guild wants to camp in WC and port in? Fuck it, we'll just be there before you. Why camp in WC when we can just camp in the zone? It's a waste of time. The most obviously efficient way is to cut out the time it woul take to gather in WC and port when we can already be here, in force, actively clearing since we only have 30 min to clear trash and engage. But wait, someone says I have to port in to be elite at killing classic EQ content or something, so it must be true.

The more efficient method, even without the 15 person rule is sit at the spawn. Clear trash for gear in rotations if need be. Have a druid or ranger tracking. You see thats what people don't seem to understand. AFK camping in the zone is the same thing, because simply "porting" in doesn't somehow automatically qualify you as "being better than someone else". You still get roll called if another guild has a force in the zone and have literally one minute to have 15 say present. Nobody is stopping anyone on the server from doing this. You still need mobs to kill in the way in a specific time limit, buff, engage and kill the boss as well. Feel free to put pressure on them, roll call them, call timers, ect. We all know where this leads though. We've been dealing with it for a long time. Being in the zone when the mob pops doesn't automatically mean you get ported the mob and get to engage. Yu still need to clear, buff, kill in a specific time. That requires mobilization and coordination since you're getting roll called and timer called.

The current raid rules do foster a competitive environment though. It's just a more strategic game, rather than "ready, set, charge" mass zerging by both guilds towards a raid mob, leapfrogging every man for himself, "oops I accidently fegned a mob on them" followed by guild leader saying "Fuck it. Keep going". You know this shit i going to happen. I should know, I played on FFA servers before. There is nothing "noble" about it. People fuck each other over all the time. None of you fuckers are innocent in any guild on this server. Yea people like to pretend though. You get caught up in the hunt rushing towards a mob. Yea it can be fun, but it's a shitfest of people seeing what thy can get away with that nobody notices and there are a multitude o ways to fuck over a rival guild fighting mobs with you to a spawn.

Vox - one way there. A specific way to pull ect. multiple guilds leapfrogging over each other to try and get first aggro would be total chaos. Trains would be common.

Naggy - same thing. Training and leapfrogging through FGs. With the way aggro works here with FD i can see what would happen already. Monk is pulling through the guild ahead of him and "oops" FD too early and guild A gets aggro. Or the mob would aggro on the ival guild first because of the way FD aggro behaves. Monk would say claim "accident" as guild B gets slowed down by a mob they didnt even pull.. With the outright hostility between DA and IB going on right now it would be a total shitfest.

Hate - Basically the same thing except one raid mob on each floor, though they are never up at the same time so it's one straight path basically to both. With how easy it is to accidently cause a train up there because of fucked up bugged mob pathing, it would be a clusterfuck.

Fear - the only real FFA raid zone except one guild can just wait until the other pulls the last mobs and then aggro/kill CT. FFA right? Just let the other guild clear all the mobs. It would become a game of chicken or a shitfest where both guilds would zerg CT at the same time hacking and slashing, last few mobs be damned. They aggro rival guild? Good for us. Hope they wipe and we get CT. So who determines who legitimately hit the boss first? The Gms? They gonna check logs on every boss kill now to determine that?

IB and DA have been in a stand off for months. This shit has been happening since the early FB days. Trans decided a long time ago they were only willing to take it so far. They bowed out. I don't blame or begrudge them for that either. It was their decision. DA has honestly been the only guild to not only play IB's game, but raise the stakes. Each guild strategically has been trying to outdo each other for a long time now. Now the server jumped the shark a long time ago. We are now at the point where people need to think about the overall health of end game on this server and if we need to come to some type o compromise. There are major egos in the way on both sides that have been unwilling to compromise for a long time.

None of the encounters except for Cazic Thule take a lot of work to actually get to in order to engage. Thats why there is a current 30 minute rule to engage. I used to watch IB port up to hate when my guild was clearing trash. They roll right by you with maybe 8 people, create a faction war decimating the mobs you're farming, charm a planar mob and then harmony pull/kill maestro. In and out wthut even saying anythng to anyone. Everyone has their agenda here. You guys can either continued on the forced camp rotation or sit down, set aside th agendas and try to find a way where everyone can enjoy the game.

[Ayen]

Mobilization and camping are the exact same thing. This is what you say in your post. So let me get this straight:

1. DA loses at mobilization.
2. DA changes server rules to camping.
3. DA loses at camping.

So if mobilization and camping are the exact same thing, and you lost at mobilization, what gave you the bright idea to change the rules to camping?
That, and the fact that mobilization and camping aren't even close to the same thing has me thoroughly confused.

So with your post, you're either A) Contradicting yourself, or, B) Making some sort of desperate attempt at flaming IB by quickly exiting the topic and accusing our entire guild of being unemployed, and making yourself look uneducated (in the sense that you have no clue as to the differences between mobilization and camping) in the process. So which is it?

I'm dying to know.

1). DA does fine at mobilization. Camping will get us our mobs guaranteed. We need to gear up and this is the quickest way to do it. DA has not been around for log at all. We don't have enough alts to camp out at every raid target.

2). DA did not change any rules. We are using the rules in place to get our mobs, you put in what you get out of this game. Just like all MMO's. I'm sorry IB has been dominating the sever since it has been around and you feel entitled to every mob. It's time to start adapting. Now at the first sign of adversity you bitch and moan.

3). How Do we lose at camping.. were 4/6 raid targets again this week. IB 2.

I'm not flaming anyone about being unemployed. DA has members who are as well. People need to understand whats happening here. Its not like a raid target spawns and the two guilds are scattered all over Norrath. Guilds know when raid targets are due. Its not a secret. People camp out in the zone or a zone away and wait for a text. All were doing is putting 15 in zone so that we can claim first shot to take down the mob. Its the path of least resistance to gearing out a guild.

So call mobilization what you will and keep crying about us camping were doing what we have to and putting in the time to claim our raid targets.

Ayen "Dark Ascension"

[girth]

There are major egos in the way on both sides that have been unwilling to compromise for a long time.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the IB leader in here trying to compromise something else other than this camping crap.

The problem seems to be half of DA want change like the rest of the server, and half of them know its their only shot.

[rioisk]

For some, the politics and guild vs guild strategy IS the game. Not farming. Not twinking. The raiding aspect of it is an afterthought. The mobs are just pieces in a much larger game. I don't begrudge anyone for taking the most efficient route to kill mobs. You people are acting like mobilization takes some type of skill or something. It doesn't. Yes, Everquest is cool and everything, but people need to realize it's a very flawed game. "racing" to any raid mob is a leapfrog quest, except for maybe in Fear. DA didn't write the raid rules. FB was not there when these rules were created. DA and IB are simply playing by the current rules in the most efficient way. I understand some people vehemently disagree with that and resent it, and they are entitled to their opinion.

Let's face it, the politics is the game here. The raid mechanics in this game were not tuned for the amount of people trying to complete it. You are right, mobilizing isn't hard. With the rules the way they are it's a big game of politics.

[Alawen Everywhere]

1). DA does fine at mobilization. Camping will get us our mobs guaranteed. We need to gear up and this is the quickest way to do it. DA has not been around for log at all. We don't have enough alts to camp out at every raid target.

2). DA did not change any rules. We are using the rules in place to get our mobs, you put in what you get out of this game. Just like all MMO's. I'm sorry IB has been dominating the sever since it has been around and you feel entitled to every mob. It's time to start adapting. Now at the first sign of adversity you bitch and moan.

3). How Do we lose at camping.. were 4/6 raid targets again this week. IB 2.

I'm not flaming anyone about being unemployed. DA has members who are as well. People need to understand whats happening here. Its not like a raid target spawns and the two guilds are scattered all over Norrath. Guilds know when raid targets are due. Its not a secret. People camp out in the zone or a zone away and wait for a text. All were doing is putting 15 in zone so that we can claim first shot to take down the mob. Its the path of least resistance to gearing out a guild.

So call mobilization what you will and keep crying about us camping were doing what we have to and putting in the time to claim our raid targets.

Ayen "Dark Ascension"

I just cannot let this stand. Who started this thread to stop camping again? Someone from IB? I DON'T THINK SO.

Are you really this fucking stupid?

[astarothel]

http://www.topatoco.com/graphics/00000001/asw-flame.gif

[Wrei]

I'm sorry IB has been dominating the sever since it has been around and you feel entitled to every mob. It's time to start adapting. Now at the first sign of adversity you bitch and moan.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't one of your officers open this thread? IB lost the race to mobs SEVERAL times under the old rule :eek: , we sometime ended up getting the boss after the guild who beat us failed on their attempt (due to inexperience). Sure we got more than our share of targets but at least the WHOLE SERVER got a chance to get to a target and beat us. The greed of your guild at wanting the so called guaranteed mob is what led to this situation.


So call mobilization what you will and keep crying about us camping were doing what we have to and putting in the time to claim our raid targets

Exactly how many members do you have in your guild again? I'd be very interested as to how you guys "gear up" your guild. If your so good at camping then keep camping instead of opening up threads about how your looking out for average Joe.

[Ayen]

Greed? I am apart of DA and it kinda would be ridiculous if i didn't want to help our members out anyway possible. What am i suppose to say. Alight guys we killed Vox this week lets not kill any other targets for the sake of other guilds that don't want to put in the time. This post was a open forum for an idea. It is not going to happen as you can see, it was designed for other guilds feedback. I love that IB's new insult is that some how were a zerg guild. Like i said before we are a new guild and still filtering members in and out to find our core group. And fuck the old days there gone, fuck waiting for a text to log and kill a target its gone. When we broke from FB and formed DA, at the time we did not clear all of the end game content. So our practice was out for fights like vox. We needed a way to make sure we could engaged certain mobs so we can learn the fights. Camping was the quickest way to have first shot at a mob.

Ayen "Dark Ascension"

[kai4785]

I want to toss my two cents in, as a very casual player. Casual to the point that I don't have the time to read the entire 30 page thread that only started yesterday. I'd rather just sit down and play.

I've spent a good amount of time wondering how to maintain a "Classic" feel, as I slowly level up. I certainly loose quite a bit of that feel when I walk into Unrest and see 3 Power leveling groups mopping up the entire zone. I loose some of that classic feel when I group with a player who's under level 20, and has a full set of pre-plane gear that is obviously out of the reach of that player. What I really want to get out of playing EQ is something as close as possible to what we got when we played back in '99. I think that the Admins, Developers, and GMs all do a wonderful job doing their part, and for the vast majority of the time I'm online, I enjoy myself very much.

I do fear the end-game content, however. I don't have an answer that doesn't require some very very heavy handed GMs, which probably isn't any good either. And I probably won't be level 50 before Kunark is released (just like back in live, oh the good ol' days.)

While I'm sure this thread is loaded with players who put more than 5-10 hours a week into this game, please keep in mind those of us who don't. We're people too, and a "Peson's a Person, no matter how" much they play EQ :)

The OP suggested we split the server, and I would be more than happy to run a "copy" of the official Project1999 server. If they are willing to open source their work and database, I would open a clone that weekend. Unfortunately I would be a terrible GM, and would probably set the level cap to 1 level higher than my current character's level, just to be mean, so it would probably be me all by my self for quite a long time, if not indefinitely. (It's taken me 6 weeks to hit level 19, wee!)

Anyway, I hope the outcome of this open forum is a positive one.

[girth]

What am i suppose to say.

You are supposed to not oppose your other officers that want this ridiculous system changed.

At least that's what I'm sure about 99% of people would say, since about 99% of the server doesn't want this camping shit.

Is killing the bosses really worth not playing the 3 days it takes to wait at their camp for them? People like you have made it so.

[Alawen Everywhere]

We all know IB wont be for a rotation. Please keep the guild drama out of this thread.

I care for the server's health. The raiding scene is important and we need to keep it clean and as drama free as possible. I care about the 600 other poeple that are gonna get close to 50 and wants to raid in the near future. I proposed these rules so no one, in the near future, has to deal with the retardedness that is the current raiding rules.

So... Nizzarr, an officer of Dark Ascension, is out to save the server, while Ayen, an officer of Dark Ascension, is going to do anything and everything he can to help benefit Dark Ascension. Do I have that correct?

Why do I get the idea one of these guys is TRYING TO FEED US BULLSHIT PROPAGANDA?

Gosh, I wonder why I took a big shit on this thread right away.

I have an idea for you. How about the 37 officers of Dark Ascension talk to each other and get your fucking story straight before you try to feed us more of your shit.

[Tibador]

Ya IB members do like to throw the Zerg word around a lot, i remember for a long time they were calling Transcendence a Zerg guild and then would show up with more people on average then we did, I just kind of funny how people can only see one side of the story.

As for the problem at hand if i was part of one of these guilds leadership i would ignore any of these trolls and hold a special guild meeting session and identify the issues at hand and work to solve them one at a time without dealing with the retards that call these forums home.

Coming to the forums is never a good idea and you should of known that Nizzar, you guys all have my Vent info or should i suggest you get it done as its only going to get worse.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Let's drop the zerg bullshit. Both IB and DA are zergs now. Before the big sit began, 50 players meant two guilds were in a zone. Now both guilds can field 50 easily and DA rarely fields less than 50 for a boss. All of these bosses can be killed with 20 except for Vox since her buffs and sometimes CT depending on what he's wielding. The zerg situation is a symptom of the camping problem, not the cause.

[Ayen]

Jesus Christ how many times do i have to say this was an idea put out by nizzarr just to get a general feel for the server population. He's not out trying to "save" anyone. So before we go though this again fucking understand what im trying to say. The zerg situation is a symptom of the server population growing.

[Starklen]

I'm not flaming anyone about being unemployed. DA has members who are as well.

Congratulations on being unemployed and available to log on. Dont forget, it takes skill to be unemployed.


=)

[Aadill]

I am gainfully employed :)

[RKromwell]

I remember once a GM made people duel for a contested spawn. One on one fight, the losers guild went away.

/shrug

Xegony was a ghetto server, folks trained the shit out of each other. That seemed to work though.

[Alawen Everywhere]

We all know IB wont be for a rotation. Please keep the guild drama out of this thread.

I care for the server's health. The raiding scene is important and we need to keep it clean and as drama free as possible. I care about the 600 other poeple that are gonna get close to 50 and wants to raid in the near future. I proposed these rules so no one, in the near future, has to deal with the retardedness that is the current raiding rules.

Wow Ayen. Just wow.

l2r?

[Olorin]

I am not gonna scroll back through all 29 pages to find the quotes but I believe someone even said something as dumb as "What's the difference between having 1 tracker afk camping the zone and 15 non-trackers?!". I mean seriously.

I'll do it for you then, cuz thats how i roll ....

IB has this ridiculous fascination with mobilization. They have it in there head that this some how implies skill when you can "mobilize" to a mob. But the sad reality is and what people don't understand its the same thing as camping a mob out.


Ayen "Dark Ascension"

[Cyrano]

As for the problem at hand if i was part of one of these guilds leadership i would ignore any of these trolls and hold a special guild meeting session and identify the issues at hand and work to solve them one at a time without dealing with the retards that call these forums home. .

If you were actually part of the high end guilds you would know that this "special guild meeting" happens every month. You would also know that FB never partook in it for whatever reason, then when they "broke off to form DA" (which consisted of ditching 1 member) they were still slow to come to the table. If you read Xzerion's post you would also know that IB has been actively trying to get this rule set changed for months only to be cockblocked by DA at every turn.

People need to stop calling this a discussion and admit what it really is; a forum for people to bitch about camping and throw out ridiculous ideas that would be even worse. From the beginning there has only been one guild saying "let us compete freely" while everyone else wants to try and impose rule, after rule, after rule, after rule. We could have been done with this weeks ago had DA just agreed to implement the rolling rule. For those of you who don't know about this suggestion I'll break it down: in lieu of the impending cold war camping situation, we suggested that if two guilds are camping the same mob they would roll for first shot when it popped. Ideally this should quickly kill the desire to camp raid mobs because then a guild could simply go follow around IB or DA and force us to roll no matter how many hours we put in.

Is that the perfect answer to this situation? No. But what is more important imposing a more stringent set of rules such as a GM enforced rotation or at least getting people to stop camping so SolB doesn't have 70 people in zone? Or keeping afk people from sitting at the zone in to PoH so Europa, Remedy, Trans, Div, and whoever else doesn't have to do a regular clear with the lag and general nuisance of having 40+ other people sitting at the zone in?

I will forever keep touting FFA with a first to engage rule and 99% of you will continue to ignore or debase it. Most people want the mobs handed to them without IB breathing down their neck. It's funny that these same people claim to want EQ to be classic. How is forcing us to have 15 people at a spawn point for days on end even remotely classic? I never saw a GM pop in to decide guild fights unless the training got ridiculous.

So I still say take the gloves off and let us play. You guys simply wanting to experience a raid boss send me a tell, can probably work out letting you tag along. We do this on a regular basis with a few people per raid usually if you aren't fucking up.

To those of you worried about training I'll say this. Everyone knows the reputation of the various guilds involved here, an FFA situation will only enhance those reputations. If some guild wants to train my guild while racing through FGs to naggy, I'm all for it. Then you guys can shut up once and for all about skill while we handle a 15 planar mob train and still manage to kill the boss just like when we were getting trained by ex-members of Trans back in the day.

Is it perfect? Absolutely not. Feelings would get hurt, but at least there's competition and a race. There's a reason to mobilize faster and work on guild cohesion.

[Glitterati]

I think Tibador was saying there should be a meeting called right now instead of waiting till the first Sunday of July. I believe he knows these meetings are happening since they happen in the vent channel that he owns.

[Ayen]

This is why i don't post on this forum people twist your words and pull fucking quotes from all over. From day one i pushed for FFA, no rules, and was told over and over again that it will never happen so it is what it is and there's nothing else to talk about.

[Olorin]

This is why i don't post on this forum people twist your words and pull fucking quotes from all over. From day one i pushed for FFA, no rules, and was told over and over again that it will never happen so it is what it is and there's nothing else to talk about.

If you wouldn't say those things, thered be no place to pull the quotes from.

[Alawen Everywhere]

This is why i don't post on this forum people twist your words and pull fucking quotes from all over. From day one i pushed for FFA, no rules, and was told over and over again that it will never happen so it is what it is and there's nothing else to talk about.

I'm sure you didn't really MEAN to flame people for being out of work, it just came out that way, right?

Do you realize that just because you see people lie on television that they're still liars?

[Ayen]

Alawen i hope you die in your sleep.

[Aadill]

This is a very off topic thread!

[Alawen Everywhere]

Alawen i hope you die in your sleep.

Thank you, Ayen, I appreciate that. My hope is to die in a Dux bed (http://www.duxiana.com/) when I'm 107.

I hope you, too, enjoy a long life and a peaceful ending in your own home and your own bed.

That's despite the fact that I think you're a stupid lying motherfucker.

[Gandite]

Man that is one helluva bed. I have a tempurpedic and I love it but it doesn't hold a candle to that bad boy.

[Taxi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4pzs5JI-N0

Im sorry but at this point the thread is kinda hopeless

[Cyrano]

This is why i don't post on this forum people twist your words and pull fucking quotes from all over. From day one i pushed for FFA, no rules, and was told over and over again that it will never happen so it is what it is and there's nothing else to talk about.

Then keep pushing for it. My guild will 100% agree to pure FFA unless stupid caveats begin to be thrown in. If you guys want to train my fucking face off I would take that over camping mobs.

Like Alawen said pages and pages ago, once you guys stop camping the camping will stop. If we get rid of this trivial "first with 15" rule then people can actually compete and claim skill when a true race is on. Then, when some other guild rises up and decides to camp IB and DA can band together to put them back down.

[Taxi]

Someone compare alawen to Hitler and we can wrap it up.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Someone compare alawen to Hitler and we can wrap it up.

OMG! Can I please have a photoshop picture with me in a cool SS uniform!!!

[astarothel]

OMG! Can I please have a photoshop picture with me in a cool SS uniform!!!

Add in the Hitler-stache and we're good to go.

[Starklen]

This is why i don't post on this forum people twist your words and pull fucking quotes from all over.


I'm not flaming anyone about being unemployed. DA has members who are as well.

Congratulations on being unemployed and available to log on. Dont forget, it takes skill to be unemployed.

[G13]

Notice IB derails the thread trying to play a gotcha game to common sense and logic

For the last time, a game of mobilization has been being played. It's just happening before the mob spawns, not after. There are rules put in place to limit training, kill stealing, ect. called timers and having a set amount of people to claim a spawn. What is the difference between mobilizing before and after a mob spawns? Someone care to clarify?

DA didn't make these rules. DA nor FB was there when these rules were created. They are playing by the rules this server has set forth. Understandably there are people who don't like playing Everquest this way. It's a pretty hardcore grind. So Nizzarr has made a proposal for ideas to change them, keep it competitive, but not complete anarchy.

So either people want to come up with real solutions, or IB can continue to whine and bitch and talk shit about DA. If it was up to me, I'd just let Alawen continue to bitch and complain and the 3 remaining guilds that actually want to discuss ideas civilly can do so. They don't need IB's approval for anything. IB doesn't run the server. Nilbog does, and has asked the community to try and come up with a reasonable raiding environment on the server. He is encouraging civil discussion on the matter. I suggest DA, Divinity, and Remedy get together and try and find a reasonable solution. Obviously IB is having none of it.

[Uaellaen]

What is the difference between mobilizing before and after a mob spawns? Someone care to clarify?


potential 96 hours compared to a few minutes time to mobilize...

DA didn't make these rules. DA nor FB was there when these rules were created.

FB was invited, but did not show. Not our fault.

[Drat]

So I'll start be reiterating what Alawen said, if DA stops camping, IB WILL stop camping as well. We have a guild full of people who want to raid, and if we didn't camp, we wouldn't be raiding at all ever right now because of what was started. Nobody in IB wants to camp, we didn't start this, so if people want it to end under the current rule set, then it is easy for that to happen. We all know it won't though.

For someone to say that IB isn't interested in trying to work anything out or try to get along is flat out wrong. I have never ignored or blown off anyone wanting to come and talk to me about anything here. IB openly went to the guild meetings to try and improve upon the server rules to clear out some gray area so raiding was a more enjoyable, fair, and consistent experience for everyone. We made several compromises from what we wanted to happen for the betterment of the server's end game and the spirit of working together. In the end, every guild agreed to the policies that were posted and agreed it was fairest solution to every guild/pug that wanted to raid. We also agreed to make a concerted effort to take the griefing out of the game with each other and continue to have meetings to continue to develop our rules as well as discuss any problems we are having with each other.

At the most recent guild meeting I had proposed a couple deterrents I had thought of to camping. Without naming names, we were told that camping was their way of competing with IB's mobilization and that camp deterrents were not going to be agreed to (at least the ones I presented, which I will go over below). DA made it clear camping is the system that works for them and were not interested in changing it. The general attitude that everyone minus DA took from the meeting is that camping was going to continue and that if something were to be changed it would need to be GM enforced. Every other guild in that meeting agreed camping was a problem we wanted to work on getting fixed.

Right now there are multiple messages coming from different DA officers. This past weekend DA proposed a rotation between IB and DA with the agreement that other guilds were still free to engage the target and if it was say DA's mob and remedy killed it then the next week it would be IB's uncontested from DA. Basically it was a rotation to stay out of each others way and just share spawns each week. The terms from what I understood was it was to go in until sky. DA also made it clear they want to get along with IB, which I thought was great, and I made it clear that regardless I would like to continue to communicate in an effort to make things better. Two things we did not like was the non-involvement of the other guilds who had helped to develop the existing rules and the fact that it was a very temporary solution, which kills competition basically, I never gave a definite no but I did not say yes either. 3 days later I'm told that a written proposal was sent to all the guilds for a rotation except for IB, so any semblance of consistency or any effort to get along, seems out the window based on that. And now today, another DA officer is talking about something else different and several officers I have talked share different opinions on it all. You guys need to get together and decide what you collectively want and stick to it, its the only way anything is going to move forward. Once that happens come talk to me and lets figure this out.



Xzerion

[Alawen Everywhere]

Here is what we have learned from DA in this thread:

Camping is bad and must be stopped as soon as possible.
Camping is good and it's the best way for DA to get the mobs they deserve.

Camping is exactly the same as scouting, mobilizing and racing.

DA wants what is best for the server.
DA wants what is best for DA.

There's nothing wrong with being unemployed. Some people in DA are unemployed.
Being unemployed is bad. Unemployed people should be ridiculed.

IB is uncivil.
It is not uncivil to make personal attacks or curse at IB.

DA killing things with twice the necessary numbers is not a zerg.
IB killing things with twice the necessary numbers is a zerg.

It is unacceptable for IB to talk shit about DA.
It is perfectly acceptable for DA to talk shit about IB.

Did I miss anything? I learned a few similar things from another source that I'd like to add to these truths:

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

[nicemace]

Here is what we have learned from DA in this thread:

Camping is bad and must be stopped as soon as possible.
Camping is good and it's the best way for DA to get the mobs they deserve.

Camping is exactly the same as scouting, mobilizing and racing.

DA wants what is best for the server.
DA wants what is best for DA.

There's nothing wrong with being unemployed. Some people in DA are unemployed.
Being unemployed is bad. Unemployed people should be ridiculed.

IB is uncivil.
It is not uncivil to make personal attacks or curse at IB.

DA killing things with twice the necessary numbers is not a zerg.
IB killing things with twice the necessary numbers is a zerg.

It is unacceptable for IB to talk shit about DA.
It is perfectly acceptable for DA to talk shit about IB.

Did I miss anything? I learned a few similar things from another source that I'd like to add to these truths:

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

shit guys, people within the same guild have varying opinions! god forbid!!

stop fishing for bites.

[Phallax]

Notice IB derails the thread trying to play a gotcha game to common sense and logic

For the last time, a game of mobilization has been being played. It's just happening before the mob spawns, not after. There are rules put in place to limit training, kill stealing, ect. called timers and having a set amount of people to claim a spawn. What is the difference between mobilizing before and after a mob spawns? Someone care to clarify?

DA didn't make these rules. DA nor FB was there when these rules were created. They are playing by the rules this server has set forth. Understandably there are people who don't like playing Everquest this way. It's a pretty hardcore grind. So Nizzarr has made a proposal for ideas to change them, keep it competitive, but not complete anarchy.

So either people want to come up with real solutions, or IB can continue to whine and bitch and talk shit about DA. If it was up to me, I'd just let Alawen continue to bitch and complain and the 3 remaining guilds that actually want to discuss ideas civilly can do so. They don't need IB's approval for anything. IB doesn't run the server. Nilbog does, and has asked the community to try and come up with a reasonable raiding environment on the server. He is encouraging civil discussion on the matter. I suggest DA, Divinity, and Remedy get together and try and find a reasonable solution. Obviously IB is having none of it.

oh ya? http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8150

[Alawen Everywhere]

shit guys, people within the same guild have varying opinions! god forbid!!

stop fishing for bites.

Your propaganda failed. I think the dracoliche window opened about half an hour ago, don't you have something to go camp? Oh, never mind. You've already been sitting there for twenty-four hours.

[Cyrano]

Does G13 think he's turning a Jedi Mind trick? He's cute.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I'm not an officer and I don't speak for my guild

I know page one was a long time ago, so maybe it's time to restate that. Xzerion is the leader of Inglourious Basterds. He speaks for us. He expressed hopeful optimism in this thread.

All of my posts have been focused on pointing out the simple solution to Nizzarr's imaginary problem, with the exception of the last few pages which are obviously just silly.

[G13]

potential 96 hours compared to a few minutes time to mobilize...



FB was invited, but did not show. Not our fault.

So it takes one guild to a few minutes to prepare way in advance for a mob. You still need to do the exact same mobilization. One guild is just taking the initiative. They prefer to be prepared in advance, instead of scrambling after the fact. What's the difference? I would rather prepare in advance instead of scrambling after the mob spawns.

FB was invited, but did not show. Not our fault.

Nobody said it was anyone's fault but these are your rules. Why is DA being blamed for playing by your rules? They want the mobs bad enough. The rules are there. They are complying by said rules and getting their mobs.

[Tibador]

Seriously Alawen if you don't know by now as your one of them, people in every guild will not have the same opinion as the leadership so saying DA said this or IB member said that does not mean anything, unless it comes from the leadership its just trash and does not represent the guild.

So stop baiting people you know as well as i do the majority of dumb ass's posting here are just trolls that think they are important and they don't represent there guilds they just have big mouths.

And Yes Cyrano i was saying make a Special Meeting not the one you guys do once a month but i guess i am not in the know these days ...

[G13]

oh ya? http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8150

Fish Bait was NOT at the guild meeting when these rules were determined. That's a fact.

Obviously you were still a noob in Crushbone when that took place and are just trolling up this thread, since you have sour grapes for getting booted out of DA for being an elitist douchebag who couldn't keep his mouth shut and treated people like shit over Ishiva robes of all things.

[Uaellaen]

None of us wanted camping, we all discussed for HOURS (5?) to figure out a way, to prevent camping, no one of us was able to come up with a fair solution for everyone ... In fact we already anticipated that Fishbait will try to find loopholes in the rules and bend them to theyr needs ... with that in mind, why dont you guys try to make up fair rules all guilds agree on? It took us roughly 5 hours, lets see how many more tries it takes you guys ...

EDIT: and yes, i count this thread here as try 1

[Sslaesha]

1). DA does fine at mobilization. Camping will get us our mobs guaranteed. We need to gear up and this is the quickest way to do it. DA has not been around for log at all. We don't have enough alts to camp out at every raid target.

2). DA did not change any rules. We are using the rules in place to get our mobs, you put in what you get out of this game. Just like all MMO's. I'm sorry IB has been dominating the sever since it has been around and you feel entitled to every mob. It's time to start adapting. Now at the first sign of adversity you bitch and moan.

3). How Do we lose at camping.. were 4/6 raid targets again this week. IB 2.

I'm not flaming anyone about being unemployed. DA has members who are as well. People need to understand whats happening here. Its not like a raid target spawns and the two guilds are scattered all over Norrath. Guilds know when raid targets are due. Its not a secret. People camp out in the zone or a zone away and wait for a text. All were doing is putting 15 in zone so that we can claim first shot to take down the mob. Its the path of least resistance to gearing out a guild.

So call mobilization what you will and keep crying about us camping were doing what we have to and putting in the time to claim our raid targets.

Ayen "Dark Ascension"



1). If DA does fine at mobilization, then why was it their choice to keep camping in place? ''We don't have enough alts to camp out at every raid target''. How can you say this if you got 4/6 raid targets this week? How does a zerg guild ''not have enough alts to camp every raid target''? Your so-called ''camping will get us our mobs guaranteed'' didn't work very well last week. Then you go on to say that ''were 4/6 raid targets again this week''. Why did you write ''again'' when you only got 1 target last week?

2). Yes, you did change the rules. Before DA, IB casually mobilized to each raid target, and had plenty of free time in game. Now we're perma camped to get raid targets, therefore DA changed the rules. This being said, how can you state that ''Mobilization and Camping are the exact same thing''. I'd also like to know why you seem to think IB feels entitled to every raid mob, because I guarantee you that no one from IB ever said ''We're entitled to every raid mob''. Adversity? LOL... You call this adversity? Forcing people to spend their entire day perma camping raid mobs = adversity? Right...

3). ''again'' you barely got 1 raid target last week.

No one is crying about you camping. Stop putting words in my mouth. People are frustrated that camping is the solution to getting raid targets. I would love if you could get your facts straight before you post again on this thread, because you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Also, it's not wise to make posts when in every post you make, you contradict yourself.

p.s. I'm pretty sure you flamed us about being unemployed, do you really need me to grab the quote for you?

[wangerinlee]

Ok, I just started here about 4 days so I'm not even close to the point of raiding atm but will be. The biggest turn off I read about this server was the current raid rules. I knew the rules before I started here so If I'm playing I have no one to blame but me. With that being said my 2 cents would be make the raids FFA with absoutly no GM involment. Make petitions over raid bosses reguarding guild be punishable by bans or whatever. When something lacks competition, Winning, losing, thrill of death, thrill of success people are gonna get bored and simply find something that offers it. Bring back a FFA and the only ones who quit will be the whinners and crybabies that want free handouts. The folks who love competition will stick like glue.

[Phallax]

Fish Bait was NOT at the guild meeting when these rules were determined. That's a fact.

Obviously you were still a noob in Crushbone when that took place and are just trolling up this thread, since you have sour grapes for getting booted out of DA for being an elitist douchebag who couldn't keep his mouth shut and treated people like shit over Ishiva robes of all things.

Im pretty sure you said DA or FB, not just FB you fucking retard. I treat people like shit that deserve to be treated like shit. Im not sour about being "denied" from DA. I was never "booted" as you say. Im pretty sure i removed myself. I am an elitist, because im an elite player, anyone thats played with me can vouch for that....how bout you? still posting anonymous and most likely suck dick at the game

[Sslaesha]

Here is what we have learned from DA in this thread:

Camping is bad and must be stopped as soon as possible.
Camping is good and it's the best way for DA to get the mobs they deserve.

Camping is exactly the same as scouting, mobilizing and racing.

DA wants what is best for the server.
DA wants what is best for DA.

There's nothing wrong with being unemployed. Some people in DA are unemployed.
Being unemployed is bad. Unemployed people should be ridiculed.

IB is uncivil.
It is not uncivil to make personal attacks or curse at IB.

DA killing things with twice the necessary numbers is not a zerg.
IB killing things with twice the necessary numbers is a zerg.

It is unacceptable for IB to talk shit about DA.
It is perfectly acceptable for DA to talk shit about IB.

Did I miss anything? I learned a few similar things from another source that I'd like to add to these truths:

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

This one caused lulz =)

[G13]

Im pretty sure you said DA or FB, not just FB you fucking retard. I treat people like shit that deserve to be treated like shit. Im not sour about being "denied" from DA. I was never "booted" as you say. Im pretty sure i removed myself. I am an elitist, because im an elite player, anyone thats played with me can vouch for that....how bout you? still posting anonymous and most likely suck dick at the game

I said FB. FB was not there, but you wanted to chime in with your trolling and try and make an ignorant cheap shot.

You weren't wanted in DA for treating people like a shit and acting like an elitist douchebag over a pitiful Ishiva robe. You also embarrassed yourself on the forums by not just letting the thread die. Your pitiful self esteem wouldn't allow you to just take the high road and let it go. You had to keep running your stupid fucking mouth for pages and pages making an ass out of yourself. Do everyone a favor and just stay the fuck out of relevant threads where you don't belong you dumb SOB

[Pheer]

I said FB. FB was not there, but you wanted to chime in with your trolling and try and make an ignorant cheap shot.

You weren't wanted in DA for treating people like a shit and acting like an elitist douchebag over a pitiful Ishiva robe. You also embarrassed yourself on the forums by not just letting the thread die. Your pitiful self esteem wouldn't allow you to just take the high road and let it go. You had to keep running your stupid fucking mouth for pages and pages making an ass out of yourself. Do everyone a favor and just stay the fuck out of relevant threads where you don't belong you dumb SOB

You mad bro?

[Cyrano]

I said FB. FB was not there, but you wanted to chime in with your trolling and try and make an ignorant cheap shot.

You weren't wanted in DA for treating people like a shit and acting like an elitist douchebag over a pitiful Ishiva robe. You also embarrassed yourself on the forums by not just letting the thread die. Your pitiful self esteem wouldn't allow you to just take the high road and let it go. You had to keep running your stupid fucking mouth for pages and pages making an ass out of yourself. Do everyone a favor and just stay the fuck out of relevant threads where you don't belong you dumb SOB

It's funny he says this while Modus is sitting at our Naggy camp trying to duel our melee then calling them pussies.

[Phallax]

I said FB. FB was not there, but you wanted to chime in with your trolling and try and make an ignorant cheap shot.

You weren't wanted in DA for treating people like a shit and acting like an elitist douchebag over a pitiful Ishiva robe. You also embarrassed yourself on the forums by not just letting the thread die. Your pitiful self esteem wouldn't allow you to just take the high road and let it go. You had to keep running your stupid fucking mouth for pages and pages making an ass out of yourself. Do everyone a favor and just stay the fuck out of relevant threads where you don't belong you dumb SOB

I guarantee im still wanted in DA, ive had several members ask me to re-app...several, because they know my skill. I didnt embarrass myself the least bit, im not embarrassed by a single thing I do, especially on an Emu server. Embarrassed about internet posts? seriously? you take the interwebs far to serious if youve been embarrassed on the interwebs and your quality posts are far more embarrassing than mine, i at least have the manly hood to post my own name and not sit anonymously spitting shit through my teeth all day like alot of these people on here. I post and I post proud.

BTW

Notice IB derails the thread trying to play a gotcha game to common sense and logic

For the last time, a game of mobilization has been being played. It's just happening before the mob spawns, not after. There are rules put in place to limit training, kill stealing, ect. called timers and having a set amount of people to claim a spawn. What is the difference between mobilizing before and after a mob spawns? Someone care to clarify?

DA didn't make these rules. DA nor FB was there when these rules were created. They are playing by the rules this server has set forth. Understandably there are people who don't like playing Everquest this way. It's a pretty hardcore grind. So Nizzarr has made a proposal for ideas to change them, keep it competitive, but not complete anarchy.

So either people want to come up with real solutions, or IB can continue to whine and bitch and talk shit about DA. If it was up to me, I'd just let Alawen continue to bitch and complain and the 3 remaining guilds that actually want to discuss ideas civilly can do so. They don't need IB's approval for anything. IB doesn't run the server. Nilbog does, and has asked the community to try and come up with a reasonable raiding environment on the server. He is encouraging civil discussion on the matter. I suggest DA, Divinity, and Remedy get together and try and find a reasonable solution. Obviously IB is having none of it.

fucking retard

[G13]

DA nor FB was there when these rules were created.

What part of DA nor FB being there when the rules were created do you not understand?

The irony has no bounds. The person who co wrote the rules just confirmed a few posts ago that what I say is true. Fish Bait was NOT at that meeting. Neither was DA. What part of that do you not understand genius

I didnt embarrass myself the least bit, im not embarrassed by a single thing I do, especially on an Emu server.

I'm glad you think acting like a total prick over an ishiva robe, and then coming to forums to defend said douchebag act is not embarrassing yourself. Most rational people think otherwise, which is why you were not wanted in DA

[Pheer]

What part of DA nor FB being there when the rules were created do you not understand?

The irony has no bounds. The person who co wrote the rules just confirmed a few posts ago that what I say is true. Fish Bait was NOT at that meeting. Neither was DA. What part of that do you not understand genius

nice memory youve got there bro

And when the rules are cleared by nilbog and posted on the forums saying he supports them and that theyll be enforced it doesnt matter if you had a voice in it or not.

[Phallax]

What part of DA nor FB being there when the rules were created do you not understand?

The irony has no bounds. The person who co wrote the rules just confirmed a few posts ago that what I say is true. Fish Bait was NOT at that meeting. Neither was DA. What part of that do you not understand genius



I'm glad you think acting like a total prick over an ishiva robe, and then coming to forums to defend said douchebag act is not embarrassing yourself. Most rational people think otherwise, which is why you were not wanted in DA

Keep thinking that buddy.
And keep thinking it was over an Ishva robe, it was a stand against a known spawn camper/KSer. Im pretty sure by the end of the thread he looked far more embarrassed than I did.

Im pleased not to be in DA anymore, its not a well ran guild. Quality players sure, some. Quality leadership? not really and horrible organization.

[Atennu]

I guarantee im still wanted in DA, ive had several members ask me to re-app...several, because they know my playtime is higher then most casual players. I can camp with the best of them. I say this in open forums to boost my self esteem because they REALLY need me.Right guise? ..... ?

Fixed.

[Phallax]

I've been reading your posts since the beginning. I can honestly say that YOU take the 'interwebz' far too serious.

Manly hood? Every single post you make, you're bragging that you're far more skilled than any other person in the universe. Is that what you call manly hood?

How is anyone supposed to take you seriously? You're like the only person in this forum that brags that he's the greatest player to ever exist. We should make a comic character out of you. You'd be famous :)

I never said "i was the best player ever" but I know my skill. I dont take the "interwebs" seriously, I make these posts and get people all worked up because its funny as shit some of the stuff people will spew out and try to make you look bad all day. I make my posts the way I do on purpose, to draw out the trolls(even tho Im technically trolling) and get em all i na riot. Its fun to say the least and they take the bait every time.

Again, Im just this way on the forums because people play to it. Play with me in game Im totally different. So thats why its funny DA would boot me over R&F posts because Im no where near like that in game. But yet Raren, my dear friend Raren, is far worse than me on the boards AND in game, but they keep him and let him run their guild.

[Biotodd]

Not to derail this wonderful conversation....about nada....

But would like to say Nizzar your an Idiot you suggest lets not camp because you started something you can't finish again...as usual(Just look at your short stint in IB ....what you played 2 months and quit) your gonna play a couple more months and fizzle out my guess is you are already fizzling out again and that's why you want the gm's to come save you from your own Idea that was Sooooooooooo great months ago...

Anyone ever notice how big of a troll Modus is....stands here in the middle of IB raid talking smack for hours about how camping is for pussies and seriously he's camping our raid force just trolling talking smack Ib sucks this, Ib sucks that, DA is God, Im so leet, all the while he's trying to get someone to duel him....several people say lets go he gets scared says lets get a GM to govern the duel which apparently is gonna be 6pm PST saturday in EC against Magicflow 2 Black Sapphires up for grabs....Unless he chickens out...which is what I expect...

[Phallax]

Fixed.

terrible attempt at a troll.

[Raren]

I like this thread

[Biotodd]

Why don't you go camp a FBSS Raren and get Kicked from IB AGAIN?

Hey Raren remember when the other IB chanters sat you down and tried to teach you how to play your class.... I DO

[Cyrano]

I never said "i was the best player ever" but I know my skill. I dont take the "interwebs" seriously, I make these posts and get people all worked up because its funny as shit some of the stuff people will spew out and try to make you look bad all day. I make my posts the way I do on purpose, to draw out the trolls(even tho Im technically trolling) and get em all i na riot. Its fun to say the least and they take the bait every time.

Again, Im just this way on the forums because people play to it. Play with me in game Im totally different. So thats why its funny DA would boot me over R&F posts because Im no where near like that in game. But yet Raren, my dear friend Raren, is far worse than me on the boards AND in game, but they keep him and let him run their guild.

I'll attest to that, Phallax is cool in game.

[Sslaesha]

But yet Raren, my dear friend Raren, is far worse than me on the boards AND in game, but they keep him and let him run their guild.

Heh, not much more I can say to that. It's funny how I post on the forums and Raren is immediately sending me private tells, cussing me out. Nice to know that's the kind of leadership DA has. Makes me giggle.

[Sslaesha]

Why don't you go camp a FBSS Raren and get Kicked from IB AGAIN?

Hey Raren remember when the other IB chanters sat you down and tried to teach you how to play your class.... I DO

<3

[Raren]

lol damn this is getting good !

[Raren]

Heh, not much more I can say to that. It's funny how I post on the forums and Raren is immediately sending me private tells, cussing me out. Nice to know that's the kind of leadership DA has. Makes me giggle.

lol post the SS of me cussing u out im really curious to see them lol

[Sslaesha]

lol damn this is getting good !

Oh hai, Raren. Time to act cool now that you're on the forum? How bout some more private tells in game? :)

[Pheer]

you got it all wrong blaine, he was thinking about leaving long before we kicked him apparently, so that makes it a whole different situation!

[Sslaesha]

lol post the SS of me cussing u out im really curious to see them lol

Do you deny trying to start shit with me in private tell? Please, deny it. Cause that would be fantastic.

[Shannacore]

Oh hai, Raren. Time to act cool now that you're on the forum? How bout some more private tells in game? :)

Pleeeaseeee elaborate

[Raren]

you got it all wrong blaine, he was thinking about leaving long before we kicked him apparently, so that makes it a whole different situation!

Actually i was talking to Durison a week before about joining DA bc i didnt want to be in IB anymore bc i enjoy people in DA more that a problem?

[Sslaesha]

Pleeeaseeee elaborate

Elaborate what? He dodges on the forum, then sends private tells where no one can see his trollings. Not much to elaborate on.

[Shannacore]

Elaborate what? He dodges on the forum, then sends private tells where no one can see his trollings. Not much to elaborate on.

I was curious about the hate tells.

[Raren]

I was curious about the hate tells.

she / he isnt smart enough to even post a SS :(

[Taluvill]

Ya IB members do like to throw the Zerg word around a lot, i remember for a long time they were calling Transcendence a Zerg guild and then would show up with more people on average then we did, I just kind of funny how people can only see one side of the story.

As for the problem at hand if i was part of one of these guilds leadership i would ignore any of these trolls and hold a special guild meeting session and identify the issues at hand and work to solve them one at a time without dealing with the retards that call these forums home.

Coming to the forums is never a good idea and you should of known that Nizzar, you guys all have my Vent info or should i suggest you get it done as its only going to get worse.

lots of win

[bullet]

Here is what we have learned from DA in this thread:

Camping is bad and must be stopped as soon as possible.
Camping is good and it's the best way for DA to get the mobs they deserve.

Camping is exactly the same as scouting, mobilizing and racing.

DA wants what is best for the server.
DA wants what is best for DA.

There's nothing wrong with being unemployed. Some people in DA are unemployed.
Being unemployed is bad. Unemployed people should be ridiculed.

IB is uncivil.
It is not uncivil to make personal attacks or curse at IB.

DA killing things with twice the necessary numbers is not a zerg.
IB killing things with twice the necessary numbers is a zerg.

It is unacceptable for IB to talk shit about DA.
It is perfectly acceptable for DA to talk shit about IB.

Did I miss anything? I learned a few similar things from another source that I'd like to add to these truths:

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

You missed the part about you getting divorced over camping respawns 20 hours a day.

Stupid moron.

[Alawen Everywhere]

You missed the part about you getting divorced over camping respawns 20 hours a day.

Stupid moron.

I've never had anyone create an anonymous account just to stalk me on a forum. I feel so special!

[Sslaesha]

I made a couple posts on this thread directed at Ayen, and out of no where, Raren's sending me tells...

Raren tells you: lol, do u know anything about EQ? btw how is that voice mod treating u? lol
You tell Raren: Why so mad? I dunno, ask Daverik.
Raren tells you: lol im not mad. i think ur posts r funnnnneh bc u g0t 0 clu wut u r talking about
You tell Raren: And Ayen does?
Raren tells you: lol a lot moar than u. u notice how u hav to edit each of ur posts? y is that?

Right... So first of all, it's hard enough trying to understand the broken, and 'text' version of English that he's created. Second, why does he type ''lol'' at the beginning and end of every sentence? I mean, read what he's saying, it's like he's trying to get on my nerves and provoke me, and yet he looks innocent with his 'lol' spam, and his childish version of English.

Even if he's right, and I have no clue what I'm talking about, why is DA leadership sending me private tells, trying to provoke me?

[Sslaesha]

Do you deny trying to start shit with me in private tell? Please, deny it. Cause that would be fantastic.

she / he isnt smart enough to even post a SS :(

I love how you ignored my post and responded with ''she / he isnt smart enough to even post a SS :(''

So you've pointed out my illiteracy with posting screenshots, but you've shown your illiteracy with responding to posts directed at you :P

Grats! Leadership win!

[bullet]

I've never had anyone create an anonymous account just to stalk me on a forum. I feel so special!

I've never had anyone try to derail the fact you got divorced over playing Everquest and getting so mad brew you have to sit up till 9am posting here.

No wonder your wife left your sorry ass behind.

You don't find people more stupid then you.

[Atennu]

I was curious about the hate tells.

Who the fuck are you again?

[Raren]

I made a couple posts on this thread directed at Ayen, and out of no where, Raren's sending me tells...

Raren tells you: lol, do u know anything about EQ? btw how is that voice mod treating u? lol
You tell Raren: Why so mad? I dunno, ask Daverik.
Raren tells you: lol im not mad. i think ur posts r funnnnneh bc u g0t 0 clu wut u r talking about
You tell Raren: And Ayen does?
Raren tells you: lol a lot moar than u. u notice how u hav to edit each of ur posts? y is that?

Right... So first of all, it's hard enough trying to understand the broken, and 'text' version of English that he's created. Second, why does he type ''lol'' at the beginning and end of every sentence? I mean, read what he's saying, it's like he's trying to get on my nerves and provoke me, and yet he looks innocent with his 'lol' spam, and his childish version of English.

Even if he's right, and I have no clue what I'm talking about, why is DA leadership sending me private tells, trying to provoke me?

lol u still cant figure out how to post a SS? i thought IB recruited smarter ppl lol

[Biotodd]

Taluvill - Half Elf Druid of Tunare - Main.
#1 Druid on P1999.


That's the funniest thing ever you can't begin to compare to any of the ddruids in IB ......

[Taluvill]

Felt like fixing this post up a tad. A lot of it is actually funny imo haha. But its like your writing the history of the world for north korean kids. Definitely through kimmy whatshiscrazynut's eyes.



2. Transcendence emerges! Hey we want phat loots too zomg. Not enough skilled player base, Trans adapts with a looser recruitment policy.


Sorry, took offense to this. Its not that there wasn't enough of a skilled playerbase in trans -- although eq isnt really set up for this because its much easier now than it ever was, I'd take the top ten trans guys against anyone any day of the week. Im sure a lot of them would as well. It's NOT that they arent or werent skilled enough to play this game at anyones level. Or "your level" for that matter. Just the fact that teenagers grow up, and most of trans core has families and big time jobs and such.

Can't live in mom's basement forever and escape the deep, dark clutches of the shitfuck economy forever. Sometime people have to work harder to keep themselves afloat and RL can be more important that a dragon to some...

4. Trans leadership: Hey we gotta get rotation going otherwise we'll never get a phat loot to drop. GM brought in and made to understand that it's the fairest way to deal with the situation. None of this is made aware to IB.

5. IB gets blind sided in Sol B on Nagafen. GM sets precedent of 14 day ban if we don't GTFO out of Sol B, enforced GM rotation up in place between 2 guilds.

6. Trans is happy. They don't need to work for mobs, mobs being breast fed to them.


Wenai came up with the rotation all by his merry self. Popped in and did it that night. You guys didn't get blindsided. You knew shit would fall. We camped it, and you guys said ohh fuck no you dont. "Sitting 14 hours actually active at a spawn is too much for us!" and You came in and threw a shitfest and decided if its not your way -- well fuckem. I can get you the quote from Otto saying that training was going to happen if you'd really like it.


10. PR War begins... IB=immature,unemployed,hackers,GMfavored etc.. Trans=Unskilled,unemployed,whiners,liars,GMfavored etc... Div=we are not IB or Trans so we must be the good guys.

Haha funny. Cause thats how it actually was. hah


12. Gothic Circle emerges! The guild that broke the rotation's back... Nizzarr working hard to find solution to remove rotations.

Div broke the rotation by taking a naggy spawn. Had absolutely nothing to do with GC. Dunno where you got that from.


14. IB once again emerges on top, how dare they those basterds!

15. Trans officially stops the "we're better than you" trash talk to "dude this shit is 10 years old" to "what about the little guy?? Don't be greedy! Go back to rotation!

Just Supreme. Don't lump everyone with what he said...

16. Douchebags from both IB and Trans being kicked out during the era known as the Troll wars...

Hah. Just wanted to give a shout out to Myth and Hasbinbad!

20. My break time! RL finally catches up even to the "unemployed,living at mom's basement,slob". Gone for a few months, no one cares /cry

The whole life thing? trans members do it everyday. sucks you had to take a few months out of yours to do something for the world.

22. DA R&D people hard at work to figure out how to beat genuine mobilization... tired of losing mobs to those a-holes from IB. Suddenly someone from DA (Salty?) has an epiphany. Let's just camp at the spot! Must recruit zerg force in order to maintain multiple camping targets.

It's not genuine mobilization when the spawn was broken. everything was spawning at the exact same time after the variance opened, it was really dumb. IB knew all about it, at least prolly 1/3 of the way through it? so they mobilized for a little bit, but not forever.

It sucks when you don't know the exact time that maestro is going to spawn.

25. IB Full retard vs DA Full retard = IB still wins for the most part with a lot less people we might add.

Oh please. stfu. Its about half and half with the guild that goes after vox getting less targets per week. Give me a break, but good try to put everyone down but yourself.

28. PR Spin machine going up! Proposal post comes up, to find a solution for the betterment of the whole server (We got everyone's interest at heart card) *wink wink*

29. Much trolling ensues on "constructive" thread to figure out the best way to shift momentum back to DA.


Well, this Idea Nizzar attempted to bring up was just a good idea for the good of the server. Why was it shot down???

Because its not in the best interests of IB. The ENTIRE reason it was shot down was that. I dont see Div/Remedy whining about this proposal in here. Just a lot of you shitting up a perfectly good thread. It's like its a nice day, and we started to go golfing, but then this big storm cloud with IB shaped lightning bolts starts raining on everything.

Oh well.

2nd to last thing, whoever said 7-8 raiding guilds can kill bosses... Your sadly, sadly mistaken. Probably like 5, if Trans could necro a LOT of members to kill stuff. Fix the info. Everyone over exaggerates how many raiding guilds there really are.


=============End of troll section=============================

Sorry, I really shouldn't have posted the trolling section but just couldn't resist at all the fake PR spin going on here. Like I said, Dumesh I hope you make another thread for your proposal... The original 4 points is my contribution to your post.

PS: It's 5am! Ignore grammar/spelling for all you internet grammar warriors!~

Yep. This ftw. /endthread

We need to just give Dumesh's idea a constructive place to grow and change and adapt... Like its own thread!!! Yeah! Guys, lets do it!

Just dont shit it up this time around. kthxbai

[Taluvill]

Taluvill - Half Elf Druid of Tunare - Main.
#1 Druid on P1999.


That's the funniest thing ever you can't begin to compare to any of the ddruids in IB ......

Lets prove it then. Rogean said hes holding botb for classic, kunark, and velious.

[Biotodd]

Oh we will you and Crackheadzilla on my list

[Sslaesha]

lol u still cant figure out how to post a SS? i thought IB recruited smarter ppl lol

Raren said ''smart'' LOLOLOL

[Supreme]

Just Supreme. Don't lump everyone with what he said...





Some people may find this hard to believe but by having a rotation you are not "feeding spawns" to anyone. You just have to set up rules that govern how the rotation would work. Give guilds a "window" of opportunity on a random timer to get the spawn and perhaps make the spawn time shorter to accommodate the guilds.

Make the window 12 hours...so when guilds know it is their "turn" they can start preparing and be aware that the mob will spawn and they have a limited time to have "their turn".

We are not doing anything ground breaking here guys....

[Supreme]

Oh and when i had originally spoke about rotation it was for the benefit of everyone. Because i know that alot of us have grown up and moved on. We are here to only relive the content.

[Taluvill]

Oh we will you and Crackheadzilla on my list

Cool. Can't wait. Ima smash you up like its super street fighters II turbo! for the 3DO.

[Taluvill]

Some people may find this hard to believe but by having a rotation you are not "feeding spawns" to anyone. You just have to set up rules that govern how the rotation would work. Give guilds a "window" of opportunity on a random timer to get the spawn and perhaps make the spawn time shorter to accommodate the guilds.

Make the window 12 hours...so when guilds know it is their "turn" they can start preparing and be aware that the mob will spawn and they have a limited time to have "their turn".

We are not doing anything ground breaking here guys....

That was essentially Nizzar's idea...

[Taluvill]

And the reason i said it like that is that that form of a rotation sounds pretty ok to me, at least until kunark.

[astarothel]

Fuck y'all.

I manage to beat insomnia and sleep for a whopping total of three hours.
Come back to 9 more pages of dickwaving, circlejerking and this thread in RnF.

Evolution within the thread from either IB or DA towards any possible solution since page 5: none.

DA leadership needs to get their ducks in line and decide if they are even -willing- to stop camping. That is a prerequisite to any sort of resolution to the camping sausagefest. Some officers of theirs want it to stop, while others seem to hint towards it continuing indefinitely.

IB, DA (and I am not sure if any other guilds) agreed to /rolling and a quasi-rotation on site when two or more campfests are present at a raid target pop. This is definitely a place to work forward from.

A straight rotation will not be received well by the vast majority of the raiding community that believes there must be a positive correlation between effort invested and its return.

FFA/first to engage has problems because an online community will never trust each other and no matter how many draconian measures are enforced by GMs people will still try and fuck each other over for pixels.

GMs want hands off as much as possible so any solution must be optimized towards this. Community reinforced correction here has failed and leads to more partisan polarization. All the "IB/DA/random person/random guild fucked us over OMG GMs ban them" shit has failed. GMs simply can't control asshattery of our community's magnitude. Just look at how few actual bans get handed out because of the sheer quantity of bullshit that is happening (not a slam at the GMs btw <3). Individually many of us here are great, but collectively we're completely self-interested fuckers. Any solution will have to bear this in mind.

I am tired, I am grumpy, and I am sick of all this bullshit.
I apologize in advance to anyone that has the misfortune of dealing with me in game in any capacity tomorrow. I will not be a happy camper.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I'm going to ride you like a donkey tomorrow.

[Wrei]

Felt like fixing this post up a tad. A lot of it is actually funny imo haha. But its like your writing the history of the world for north korean kids. Definitely through kimmy whatshiscrazynut's eyes.

I honestly did not "embellish" as much as you think on the series of events. Perhaps some stuff needs clarification but they are all fairly accurate in general. This was all for harmless fun any how seeing how serious this thread was getting.


Sorry, took offense to this. Its not that there wasn't enough of a skilled playerbase in trans -- although eq isnt really set up for this because its much easier now than it ever was, I'd take the top ten trans guys against anyone any day of the week. Im sure a lot of them would as well. It's NOT that they arent or werent skilled enough to play this game at anyones level. Or "your level" for that matter. Just the fact that teenagers grow up, and most of trans core has families and big time jobs and such.

Can't live in mom's basement forever and escape the deep, dark clutches of the shitfuck economy forever. Sometime people have to work harder to keep themselves afloat and RL can be more important that a dragon to some...

I never implied that the inner core of Trans was bad. I just said you guys had a looser recruitment policy. If you want to be specific comparing both guilds we had less weaker links going beyond your crew of 10 (both guilds at their prime). So it's not about your choice of 10 guys but rather your whole guild as a group. I'm not talking "playtime", but rather in game knowledge and applying it. Not sure what your bringing up the whole playtime argument for... how's that relevant to the skilled player base+recruitment thing. The live in mom / unemployed thing is just sarcasm honestly. From what I recall most of us have RL jobs (just as most trans members do). The only thing we're guilty of is putting a greater priority playing this game (even after 10+years) over average Joe.


Wenai came up with the rotation all by his merry self. Popped in and did it that night. You guys didn't get blindsided. You knew shit would fall. We camped it, and you guys said ohh fuck no you dont. "Sitting 14 hours actually active at a spawn is too much for us!" and You came in and threw a shitfest and decided if its not your way -- well fuckem. I can get you the quote from Otto saying that training was going to happen if you'd really like it.

So we're to believe that you guys getting beat to a boss had nothing to do with it? Wasn't Tibador a GM at the time (yes just like Xzerion), your telling me that NOBODY from Trans whined/petitioned/emailed/chatted on vent or irc to the GMs about getting your ass kicked? Wenai just randomly came in and randomly decided hey let's share the bosses? My memory is sketchy now but as I recall wasn't that whole rotation concocted by allizia and another gm i can't remember in your vent? My point is it's not really about who came up with the rotation (when I really think it was trans) but rather about the fact that you guys must have complained to the GM's for them to get involved to begin with.


Haha funny. Cause thats how it actually was. hah

Yes at last we agree on something!!


Div broke the rotation by taking a naggy spawn. Had absolutely nothing to do with GC. Dunno where you got that from.

You are correct on a technical level, but GC was used as an example of upcoming raiding guilds just like remedy. It was bad enough to share with 1 guild then Div popping = 3 way share... Once it was clear more guilds would be popping up (starting with GC) that's when the whole rotation was getting silly( Naggy once a month yay ).


14. IB once again emerges on top, how dare they those basterds!

Not sure what you were trying to refute here. Or were you agreeing! The pun was rather one of my weaker jokes, you'll have to forgive me it was 5am.


Just Supreme. Don't lump everyone with what he said...

I don't feel like digging up pages of quotes but seriously that whole sentence is true (my sentence). There was plenty of smack talk comparing dick size between both guilds. Once it was established which was the more dominant guild, the focus then shifted towards how being the top guild here is like winning the special olympics (and not just Supreme) into trying to get server sympathy by saying how we're the greedy basterds (for not sharing with every random joe on the server).


Hah. Just wanted to give a shout out to Myth and Hasbinbad!

There were more then a few trolls from both guilds but I didn't name names! :D


The whole life thing? trans members do it everyday. sucks you had to take a few months out of yours to do something for the world.

I know sarcasm is the lowest form of comedy but seriously did you really believe I was a slob living in my mom's basement? Sorry to disappoint, but I think we all got jobs and responsibilities for the most part (yes even myself what a shocker). You make it sound like Trans was the only guild that had members who had shit to do in RL but still somehow managed to raid.... That's funny.


It's not genuine mobilization when the spawn was broken. everything was spawning at the exact same time after the variance opened, it was really dumb. IB knew all about it, at least prolly 1/3 of the way through it? so they mobilized for a little bit, but not forever.

It sucks when you don't know the exact time that maestro is going to spawn.


Umm.. kinda confused by that. To me mobilizing goes something like this:

1. Tracker tracks! (Best part of playing EQ!) I'm kidding
2. Big red Boss on track zomg! Send out message
3. Raid force logs on goes to X zone trying to beat other competing guild.
4. Gank boss.

So how is that not genuine mobilization? Even if early variance was bugged and the bosses popped more or less at the same time (I can't even remember). Do you think we all slept through? No I assure you, our trackers were busy then just as they are now. You would know when Maestro died if you had a rotation of trackers.. but then everyone of you lead such busy lives that you possibly couldn't do that.

Setting up 1 tracker rotation = ZOMG THIS IS A GAME DUDE we got shit to do in RL!!.

Setting up a whole raid force sitting in Nag's room waiting for the dragon to pop for 14+ hours = Acceptable because we get a guaranteed dragon!!

At least be consistent, if your too busy to raid how the fuck do you have a whole raid force camping for that long? You guys showed the way for future generation on how to go full retard right then and there.


Oh please. stfu. Its about half and half with the guild that goes after vox getting less targets per week. Give me a break, but good try to put everyone down but yourself.

Why the anger? Geez I thought we were friends... I said for the most part, we do have less though (even in our zerg form).


Well, this Idea Nizzar attempted to bring up was just a good idea for the good of the server. Why was it shot down???

Because its not in the best interests of IB. The ENTIRE reason it was shot down was that. I dont see Div/Remedy whining about this proposal in here. Just a lot of you shitting up a perfectly good thread. It's like its a nice day, and we started to go golfing, but then this big storm cloud with IB shaped lightning bolts starts raining on everything.

It would have nothing to do with DA having a massive guild roster right? Are you saying that Nizzarr would have made that post if DA was dominating the content through camping? Seriously? Can DA keep up camping indefinitely? I doubt it, and if you can't then what do you do? You first play the victim card (anyone who points out that your guild is the problem by camping = trolling), then you go on to get some sympathy votes from Div/Rem by telling them you are out there to look out for their interest (when in reality DA admitted they will keep on camping because it suits DA).


We need to just give Dumesh's idea a constructive place to grow and change and adapt... Like its own thread!!! Yeah! Guys, lets do it!

Just dont shit it up this time around. kthxbai

Finally something we totally agree on, and yes I like the potential of that thread.

[bullet]

I'm going to ride you like a donkey tomorrow.

Your wife rode you pretty hard when she dumped your pathetic ass.

Sad loser.

[spoolie]

lol bullet...relentless

[tsonka]

Sorry, took offense to this. Its not that there wasn't enough of a skilled playerbase in trans -- although eq isnt really set up for this because its much easier now than it ever was, I'd take the top ten trans guys against anyone any day of the week. Im sure a lot of them would as well. It's NOT that they arent or werent skilled enough to play this game at anyones level. Or "your level" for that matter. Just the fact that teenagers grow up, and most of trans core has families and big time jobs and such


Thanks Tal


When I read Wrei's post I was a bit irked. We get along with IB rather well now, in fact I have alot of respect for that guild. Making comments, no matter how long ago they are refering to, still leaves a "what the fuck" feeling with you

[Alawen Everywhere]

lol bullet...relentless

Your guildies have a lot of class, spoolie.

[spoolie]

im neutral man take that up with them. I don't hate on anyone.. i got gnome love for all

[spoolie]

and ps i dont even know who bullet is on here.

[Aadill]

It's a shame that this thread had some reasonable ideas in it that were being discussed but were brought down by a few members of the community. It's to be expected as the number of people who have an interest and access to the discussion is 100% of the population affected.

Perhaps we can again attempt this at the appropriate time where a thread about guilds will not end up in the RnF section, as they always do.

[spoolie]

ya it always a couple people from both sides just argueing and taking low blow shots at each other that ruins any chance of an attempt to fix anything.

[bullet]

It's a shame that this thread had some reasonable ideas in it that were being discussed but were brought down by a few members of the community. It's to be expected as the number of people who have an interest and access to the discussion is 100% of the population affected.

Perhaps we can again attempt this at the appropriate time where a thread about guilds will not end up in the RnF section, as they always do.

It's a shame that this server had some reasonable ideas but were brought down by a few guilds.

There is no solutions sadly.

[Phallax]

We just need a serious thread monitored by a forum dev. Any attempt at trolling or derailling, that post gets removed. Repeating offenders of the thread get a forum suspension.

[sidgb]

When I see one of you guilds making room for PuG/alliance attempts on the bosses in your schemes. Then I will believe it is about the community at large. Untill then it just looks like a BS effort by a few to monopolize content for their own gain and look like saints in the process.

As long as that is the case, I am more than happy to see you guys camping yourself into misery.

Hurry up and work it out though. Once I get raid level I am gonna want to join a high end guild and monopolize content for my own personal gain, and I don't want to camp stuff.

8)

[Taxi]

Heh, not much more I can say to that. It's funny how I post on the forums and Raren is immediately sending me private tells, cussing me out. Nice to know that's the kind of leadership DA has. Makes me giggle.

Thats how you get girls no? Run after them with a snake and they run away terrified and screaming?

[Aadill]

Phallax: sadly that's what it would come to. Again, however, having to be mediated is the exact reason why GMs don't want to be involved in game or out. As a collective, we can't even hold a discussion without it going down the drain.


Sidgb: I, too, want to see provisions for pickup raids. This was one of my favorite past times, as I held raids to Kael, Fear, and PoHate on my server back in the day. On the last announced raid there were so many people happy to come along just for the fun of it that it was the most ridiculous slaughter of Plane of Hate, ever.

[sidgb]

Sidgb: I, too, want to see provisions for pickup raids. This was one of my favorite past times, as I held raids to Kael, Fear, and PoHate on my server back in the day. On the last announced raid there were so many people happy to come along just for the fun of it that it was the most ridiculous slaughter of Plane of Hate, ever.

This makes you one of my heroes.

Tell me for C anytime.

[Aadill]

This makes you one of my heroes.

Tell me for C anytime.

No joke my friend and I that co-lead raids had 117 people send us tells for that last one.

We ported up 84 people. No one really cared about the loot, we were just celebrating. Part of that 84 then went to Kael for the second part of the raid.

Sure it was ridiculous but it was the memories that mattered.

[sidgb]

No joke my friend and I that co-lead raids had 117 people send us tells for that last one.

We ported up 84 people. No one really cared about the loot, we were just celebrating. Part of that 84 then went to Kael for the second part of the raid.

Sure it was ridiculous but it was the memories that mattered.

I did a lot of the same but my pickup raids were for Trak and Halls of Testing. Went on a ton of pickup raids though on pretty much every boss.

Many good times.

[Phallax]

On Tunare we had "the pug" a group of randoms/friends/not-so-fortunate guilds join up and own alot of the contenst, gave the top guilds a run for their money on server firsts too when exps came out. Why this group never just formed a guild is amazing and showed their dedication to their actual guilds. Joining a PUG is always fun, especially later in expansions and your guild stops doing stuff you still want to that has loot youre after.

After my guild moved on past PoTime I stil lsaught after my beloved TA and joined the pug a few times in hopes to score one...Still never had 1 drop tho /sigh

[Phallax]

As much as we dont want GM intervention, this is needed, and not exactly GM intervention but them enforcing the rules

6. AFK camping is not respected and is frowned upon, if caught afk camping you will be booted to the character select screen.

Majority of raid target campers AFK and this is frowned upon. Lets get active GMs and start char select booting people!

(Posting in all 100 posts about camping!)

[Nizzarr]

I was in the guildmeeting in early may, and Inglorious bastard didnt show up. We discussed raid Timers, which I thought some were not viable. I've also heard IB always wanted to make those rules tighter and harder. Which is ridiculous if you ask me.

I also wasnt in DA when the current raid rules were brought up. I'm sure I would have had a say on those.


It's kinda funny that you brought up that we've been camping dracoliche the past 24 hours, while youve been at nagafen's spawns for the last 96 hours. But I admire you're willingness to troll.

Blaine, I've been in IB 3 months, from the first "legit" nagafen kill to the boring rotation in january. The 24 hour rotation made me quit, It was boring. No point in even showing up. I was often the only cleric on many fear raids in november/december. I went out of my way to help that guild and thats how you remember me? I never had beef with you, and I will not hold anything against you for that post either.

I brought up the new rotation systems because the raiding here is ridiculous. I described it as a soft rotation, knowing well that divinity nor remedy would not show up to kill their targets during the night/early morning. Giving IB and DA a bigger share of the spawns. But I was aware that Remedy would take down their target during the afternoon/early evening. And that divinity would probably go out of their way to take down theirs too in the evenings and probably early night.

but it was all made in mind to cease this ridiculous "undisclosed" rotation between IB/DA. The soon to be 7 days 24/24 camping of spawns, which were getting real close to.

[Aadill]

I'm fairly certain Remedy and Divinity and anyone else wanting to participate in raid encounters would show up for the kill. If time constraints are an issue then that is a loss that sucks, but is a product of the variance timers not working in their favor. Same goes with IB and DA, if you want to continue to make these comparisons.

I would assume IB and DA are more likely to show up in the middle of the night, seeing as how raid targets have been killed in the wee hours of the morning, but thems the breaks.

[Taluvill]

To say the least, <3 you wrei. No hard feelings, please. Was sorta a tad of a bad night for me and I somewhat funneled my anger through you. I do that some times. But lets get back to the bitching, shall we? <3

I honestly did not "embellish" as much as you think on the series of events. Perhaps some stuff needs clarification but they are all fairly accurate in general. This was all for harmless fun any how seeing how serious this thread was getting.
Lol completely agree. This thread is getting bad and everyone is taking headshots at each other.


I never implied that the inner core of Trans was bad. I just said you guys had a looser recruitment policy. If you want to be specific comparing both guilds we had less weaker links going beyond your crew of 10 (both guilds at their prime). So it's not about your choice of 10 guys but rather your whole guild as a group. I'm not talking "playtime", but rather in game knowledge and applying it. Not sure what your bringing up the whole playtime argument for... how's that relevant to the skilled player base+recruitment thing. The live in mom / unemployed thing is just sarcasm honestly. From what I recall most of us have RL jobs (just as most trans members do). The only thing we're guilty of is putting a greater priority playing this game (even after 10+years) over average Joe.

What it had seemed like you were implieing, was that we lost the battle and trans went casual because they had a no skill playerbase. That much was clear. So i took it like that. Sorry if you pushed it on the recruitment side of things, but yeah. and the Playtime gig comes from the fact that with a variance in place, the members, core or not, (im an exception btw) couldn't wake up to kill shit at 4am. We literally would sit in vent and had a cutoff time where we would stop tracking because although we knew we wanted to (or I would stop tracking... Yeah. Wasn't a "we" thing.) or could, The fact was that if we batphoned at that time, people would just be pissy the next morning.



So we're to believe that you guys getting beat to a boss had nothing to do with it? Wasn't Tibador a GM at the time (yes just like Xzerion), your telling me that NOBODY from Trans whined/petitioned/emailed/chatted on vent or irc to the GMs about getting your ass kicked? Wenai just randomly came in and randomly decided hey let's share the bosses? My memory is sketchy now but as I recall wasn't that whole rotation concocted by allizia and another gm i can't remember in your vent? My point is it's not really about who came up with the rotation (when I really think it was trans) but rather about the fact that you guys must have complained to the GM's for them to get involved to begin with.

Tib was the only GM in the place at that point... unless you count tantalar. *cough* ...... Yeah, joke. haha.

Unless tib or allizia did it behind the scenes, None of us knew about it, and neither did you sitting in ib's chair. No you didnt beat us to the spawn, we sat in king room for like 10 hours or so.


Yes at last we agree on something!!

Yeah man!



You are correct on a technical level, but GC was used as an example of upcoming raiding guilds just like remedy. It was bad enough to share with 1 guild then Div popping = 3 way share... Once it was clear more guilds would be popping up (starting with GC) that's when the whole rotation was getting silly( Naggy once a month yay ).


Now that I'm looking back with a clear head, yeah. GC stirred stuff up in the forums that led to the eventual downfall of the rotation, and divinity stepping up to steal a naggy was just the breaking point really.


Not sure what you were trying to refute here. Or were you agreeing! The pun was rather one of my weaker jokes, you'll have to forgive me it was 5am.

Forgot to edit it out. whoops. wall of text... cant... yeah.



I don't feel like digging up pages of quotes but seriously that whole sentence is true (my sentence). There was plenty of smack talk comparing dick size between both guilds. Once it was established which was the more dominant guild, the focus then shifted towards how being the top guild here is like winning the special olympics (and not just Supreme) into trying to get server sympathy by saying how we're the greedy basterds (for not sharing with every random joe on the server).


Yeah. I was part of the dick comparing festivities. bit ashamed of that, but whatev. I try and keep my nose out of the forums now... (thanks bayer/stanley btw.) But yeah. Supreme, at that point in time, had the worst of it of anyone in our guild at least.


There were more then a few trolls from both guilds but I didn't name names! :D


= D

I know sarcasm is the lowest form of comedy but seriously did you really believe I was a slob living in my mom's basement? Sorry to disappoint, but I think we all got jobs and responsibilities for the most part (yes even myself what a shocker). You make it sound like Trans was the only guild that had members who had shit to do in RL but still somehow managed to raid.... That's funny.

I was playing off the comedy. And I think it's (sadly) more that they did all this shit 10 years ago and were like "Fuck it. I raided fear to gear up 100 ppl on live, now I'm going to raid fear to gear up 50 people on an emu server to relive the bullshit? No thanks." Except in a much nicer way.

Umm.. kinda confused by that. To me mobilizing goes something like this:

1. Tracker tracks! (Best part of playing EQ!) I'm kidding
2. Big red Boss on track zomg! Send out message
3. Raid force logs on goes to X zone trying to beat other competing guild.
4. Gank boss.

So how is that not genuine mobilization? Even if early variance was bugged and the bosses popped more or less at the same time (I can't even remember). Do you think we all slept through? No I assure you, our trackers were busy then just as they are now. You would know when Maestro died if you had a rotation of trackers.. but then everyone of you lead such busy lives that you possibly couldn't do that.

Setting up 1 tracker rotation = ZOMG THIS IS A GAME DUDE we got shit to do in RL!!.

Setting up a whole raid force sitting in Nag's room waiting for the dragon to pop for 14+ hours = Acceptable because we get a guaranteed dragon!!

At least be consistent, if your too busy to raid how the fuck do you have a whole raid force camping for that long? You guys showed the way for future generation on how to go full retard right then and there.

Well, a few points. You think you had trackers there, or at least you know you did. Which you did. Trackers were there, not disputing that, but I personally think that probably about 1/3 of the way into the variance, after hate opened, that the trackers were just a scapegoat to make everyone think you guys were tracking, when in reality you all knew when shit would pop.

It got to the point where we just raided the best possible spot, and if you guys showed up, we batphoned. Yeah, fuckin dumb, huh? But it usually worked. We got to at least see, if not compete for, a few mobs that way.



Why the anger? Geez I thought we were friends... I said for the most part, we do have less though (even in our zerg form).

Most i've seen for a boss fight in DA is 55, and i've seen more or less 50 at different times in the server's life cycles. I think the fact that everyone calls each other zergs is really hilarious haha. Because everyone is so fucking hypocritical on almost everything they say, from both guilds.



It would have nothing to do with DA having a massive guild roster right? Are you saying that Nizzarr would have made that post if DA was dominating the content through camping? Seriously? Can DA keep up camping indefinitely? I doubt it, and if you can't then what do you do? You first play the victim card (anyone who points out that your guild is the problem by camping = trolling), then you go on to get some sympathy votes from Div/Rem by telling them you are out there to look out for their interest (when in reality DA admitted they will keep on camping because it suits DA).

Well, you can put that either way. Can IB keep camping forever? And i dont think its a victim card. I think its more a "fuck. this is getting to be a pita, lets see if we can figure out a way to work this out." And believe me, I know many of your members that are SICK of camping shit. Im sure they are. So it goes both ways tbh.

What i think has happened, is Nizz is trying to get the situation worked out, but Ayen steps up in here and basically brings up the point that if this isn't going to change (which i can tell you from this thread that it's not) then We are fine with camping. Its how we got/get mobs and thats cool. ATM, it's how you get mobs too, so unless we can stop dickwaving at each other as we drive past one another's house, its going to stay camping shit.

Hah. TBH, i cant wait for cleric epic camps. = D


Finally something we totally agree on, and yes I like the potential of that thread.

Make it, and call it Tal&Wrei's badass idea thread! and put his idea in there and lets make it up for discussion. Do it in server chat. andnndndndndnd....

yeah.


Oh. Give him credit for the idea too.

[Taluvill]

Most i've seen for a boss fight in DA is 55, and i've seen more or less 50 IB at different times in the server's life cycles. I think the fact that everyone calls each other zergs is really hilarious haha. Because everyone is so fucking hypocritical on almost everything they say, from both guilds.

Whoops. Im really bad at typing = D What i meant to say is what i just quoted ^^^^.

Thanks hah.

[astarothel]

My lawyered up version of Suicide Kings (to stop all you loopholing motherfuckers) will probably be posted today after I get a few more comments and selective pieces of input from individuals.

[G13]

Your guildies have a lot of class, spoolie.

The pot calling the kettle black

[jilena]

Wooo! Thank god this finally got moved to RnF!!

G13 you are the biggest fucking retard in the history of retarded fucking retards. That's like a triple Finawin dickslap for you.

I am going to type this in capital letters so maybe it will be easier to read.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FUCKING CAMPING AND FUCKING MOBILIZATION IS THAT WITH MOBILIZATION YOU ARE ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME BETWEEN SPAWNS. THE FACT THAT YOU LOG OUT IN A CONVENIENT LOCATION AND SORTA "CAMP THE MOB" WHILE LOGGED OFF DOES NOT MAKE IT THE SAME THING AS SITTING THERE UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR CHARACTER WHILE WAITING FOR THE MOB TO SPAWN.

I hope that makes it clearer.

<3

[Aadill]

I am going to type this in capital letters so maybe it will be easier to read.

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FUCKING CAMPING AND FUCKING MOBILIZATION IS THAT WITH MOBILIZATION YOU ARE ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME BETWEEN SPAWNS. THE FACT THAT YOU LOG OUT IN A CONVENIENT LOCATION AND SORTA "CAMP THE MOB" WHILE LOGGED OFF DOES NOT MAKE IT THE SAME THING AS SITTING THERE UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR CHARACTER WHILE WAITING FOR THE MOB TO SPAWN.

I hope that makes it clearer.

<3


What? Don't you have 2 other accounts to play while you claim a raid target? Shows how smart IB is! bahaha I kid I kid!

[Alawen Everywhere]

The pot calling the kettle black

You're the classiest of all. Ask yourself for a moment what I have ever said about your life outside this game. I have made no references to your career, your family, your health. I have been vocal about a political situation within game and some of the discussions have become heated. You have personally hounded me with a rumor of what you perceive as a vulnerable personal matter. One of your guildmates went so far as to wish death upon me. I try to make light of those remarks because I think that sort of thing can turn very ugly in a hurry. Perhaps even you can see that sort of thing is simply inappropriate.

I question both your judgement and your good taste, sir. When I am not proud of myself, I make it a point to apologize and change my behavior. Can you say the same?

[G13]

THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FUCKING CAMPING AND FUCKING MOBILIZATION IS THAT WITH MOBILIZATION YOU ARE ABLE TO PLAY THE GAME BETWEEN SPAWNS. THE FACT THAT YOU LOG OUT IN A CONVENIENT LOCATION AND SORTA "CAMP THE MOB" WHILE LOGGED OFF DOES NOT MAKE IT THE SAME THING AS SITTING THERE UNABLE TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOUR CHARACTER WHILE WAITING FOR THE MOB TO SPAWN.

I hope that makes it clearer.

<3

You have a different opinion that me, which is fine. Not everyone plays Everquest for the same reasons as you do. Please refer to my original post on the subject, which outlines it quite nicely.

For some people, the end game bosses is the game. Not crafting. Not farming, ect. It's that simple.

If your main focus is to kill raid mobs to gear up your guild, camping is the most efficient way. You still need to mobilize efficiently, coordinate, ect. You just do it in advance instead of right when the mob spawns. Any guild can challenge that, which is exactly what IB and DA have been doing to each other. It's a very strategic game. I don't understand why one guild is talking about mobilization when that is exactly what both guilds have been doing now. Example: IB wipes in Hate and drops below 15. DA ports up within 5 minutes to claim it. That is about as clear cut an example of mobilization as there is. They needed to get to a port and get ported in 3-5 minutes before IB could res back up. I seem to remember the guild that prides itself on mobilization not accepting defeat in that situation and getting a GM involved.

Like I said before, why camp in WC when you can camp in the zone? You still need to buff, kill trash, pull boss, and kill boss within 30 minutes. I understand that some do not like doing this and are vehemently against it. They have every right to their opinion, but there is also a flip side to that coin.

So let's say an idle is put in place where you get auto logged off if you don't move? People will find a way around it. So you track with one druid and everyone just camps out at the preferred spot. Mob spawns, batphone, guild is ready to go. No need to port. Even without the 15 person in zone rule guilds would still do this. They would be stupid not to if they wanted the loot bad enough. People are acting like an FFA train/KS shitfest of chaos is somehow going to be better. It won't be. None of these encounters are designed for that except maybe Fear, and I already explained how that would be a shitfest as well.

It's all one straight line to the targets, where guilds would be leapfrogging each other and doing every shady tactic necessary to get "first aggro". What's first aggro though and who determines it's legit? Especially if guild B is getting aggro from mobs they didn't even pull? The obvious tactic guild A would use it to "accidently" get aggro on B, slowing down their charge towards the boss.

Everquest is a fun game, but it is a very flawed game. These same arguments and opinions have been thrown back and forth since 1999. These arguments are nothing new.

[Taxi]

One of your guildmates went so far as to wish death upon me.
When i saw someone wish for Alawen to die, no matter what i think of him (i dont really know him) I thought it was totally overboard. This is the kind of shit id saw on wow forums and Heroes of Newerth forums. I really hope the guy wishing Alawen to die was under 18 because if not... he has serious issues.

[G13]

You're the classiest of all. Ask yourself for a moment what I have ever said about your life outside this game. I have made no references to your career, your family, your health. I have been vocal about a political situation within game and some of the discussions have become heated. You have personally hounded me with a rumor of what you perceive as a vulnerable personal matter. One of your guildmates went so far as to wish death upon me. I try to make light of those remarks because I think that sort of thing can turn very ugly in a hurry. Perhaps even you can see that sort of thing is simply inappropriate.

I question both your judgement and your good taste, sir. When I am not proud of myself, I make it a point to apologize and change my behavior. Can you say the same?

I wouldn't whine about my personal life to total strangers in vent like you do

I don't have any pity for you, and I don't buy your fake attempt at being civil. You have clearly shown that you are anything but civil since page 1 of this thread. That's not my problem.

[Taxi]

For example i wish George Bush will die a slow horrible painful death. But you know, hes responsible for life and death stuff, he wasnt trying to make it harder for you to get loot in an Everquest emulator.

[sidgb]

You know a thread has lost it when it becomes the....."I wish so-and-so would die thread."

Heck, it's not even entertaining anymore at that point unless the death is creative and funny.

[Taxi]

You know a thread has lost it when it becomes the....."I wish so-and-so would die thread."

Heck, it's not even entertaining anymore at that point unless the death is creative and funny.

I said "someone compare Alawen to Hitler and we can wrap it up" about 8 pages ago lol.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I wouldn't whine about my personal life to total strangers in vent like you do

I don't have any pity for you, and I don't buy your fake attempt at being civil. You have clearly shown that you are anything but civil since page 1 of this thread. That's not my problem.

I'm not sure you and I even dwell on the same planet sometimes. Where did I ask for your pity? I have never been in vent with you. Anything you think you know about me is at best second-hand and more likely pure rumor and speculation.

You seem to think that disparaging remarks about someone's appearance, employment, sexual orientation, marital status and death wishes are acceptable and appropriate in a discussion of video game politics. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I fully expect you to continue following me from thread to thread barking like a rabid dog. I think that sort of behavior is far more demeaning and embarrassing to the person making the mindless insults than to the individual being stalked and harassed. I suspect that at some level you know your behavior on the forums is reprehensible, and that's why you attempt to hide your identity, Bronson.

[eqdruid76]

I'm not sure you and I even dwell on the same planet sometimes. Where did I ask for your pity? I have never been in vent with you. Anything you think you know about me is at best second-hand and more likely pure rumor and speculation.

You seem to think that disparaging remarks about someone's appearance, employment, sexual orientation, marital status and death wishes are acceptable and appropriate in a discussion of video game politics. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I fully expect you to continue following me from thread to thread barking like a rabid dog. I think that sort of behavior is far more demeaning and embarrassing to the person making the mindless insults than to the individual being stalked and harassed. I suspect that at some level you know your behavior on the forums is reprehensible, and that's why you attempt to hide your identity, Bronson.

STFU. You're as guilty of personal attacks as everyone else here, hypocrite.

[Taxi]

So whats the name of this thread again?

[mr.miketastic]

So whats the name of this thread again?

I thinks it is something like "Quick! Someone is trying to come up with some constructive suggestions to resolve the current state of raiding affairs! Mobilize and troll nao!"

[Aadill]

I thinks it is something like "Quick! Someone is trying to come up with some constructive suggestions to resolve the current state of raiding affairs! Mobilize and troll nao!"

Mobilizing the quickest in game and on forums is the key to victory.

[jilena]

You have a different opinion that me, which is fine. Not everyone plays Everquest for the same reasons as you do. Please refer to my original post on the subject, which outlines it quite nicely.

For some people, the end game bosses is the game. Not crafting. Not farming, ect. It's that simple.

...

Like I said before, why camp in WC when you can camp in the zone? You still need to buff, kill trash, pull boss, and kill boss within 30 minutes. I understand that some do not like doing this and are vehemently against it. They have every right to their opinion, but there is also a flip side to that coin.


Okay, since you decided to not reply with insults and take the fun out of RnF I suppose I will be more adult as well (asshole). I am in no way implying that the end goal and/or result of either strategy (mobilizing or camping) is any different. I get that. I am even more than willing to concede that of the two strategies camping is more likely to yield the desired result.

I also get that right now this is a contest of wills between IB and DA. The desired result is for one of the guilds to break and admit defeat and more likely than not crumble as a result. To further this end both guilds have significantly lower standards of recruitment than is common for these types of guilds in a healthier competative environment. The current strategy being asses glued to the ground does not really require upper tier players and is honestly best accomplished by people who are bad at the game as you don't want your decent players getting burned out. Obviously once the other guild concedes most of these fail players will find themselves looking for guild yet again for some simple excuse or another.

I get all this. My point is simply that you CANNOT claim that camping and mobilization are the same thing. One (assuming you are not a piece of shit boxing whore... oh haaay haven't IP exemption requests been on the rise lately?!) requires your only character to sit doing nothing in one place for probably the entire time you are logged in. The other requires you to drop what you are doing and get some place in a short window of time. Whether or not you get the boss at the end is not the point I am making here. The point is that with a camping strat, I would be stuck sitting in place and unable to play my character. Were the strat mobilization, I would be able to do whatever I wanted 99% of the time and simply have to park my character in a convenient location when I am NOT playing. I don't know about you but I don't really care where my character is sitting while I am not in game.

I am indifferent as to the WHY of you choosing to do these things. I just think it's silly that people would even try and compare the two strats and claim they are equal and have equal impact on the lives and or in game enjoyment of the people involved in executing them. I find it REALLY hard to believe that the majority of the people involved in this camping catastrophe find it fun. I would be willing to wager that if the guilds coming out on top of this clusterfuck (IB and DA) felt they could retain the same degree of boss kills in a situation that didn't require camping, then that is what we would see happening. Right now, so long as camping gets you a guaranteed boss claim, if one guild is camping the other will follow suit. The current rules only allow you to fight camping with more camping.

Such a horrible situation regardless of how many shiny things it nets your guild.

[bullet]

Ask yourself for a moment what I have ever said about your life outside this game.

You called me a loser :(

While I don't wish death upon you, I certain wish I could kill your hair with fire.

http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/4044/alawenss.jpg

[Raren]

lol whoever bullet is i love him goood shit

[Alawen Everywhere]

STFU. You're as guilty of personal attacks as everyone else here, hypocrite.

I don't take issue with personal attacks. If I say something stupid and you call me stupid, that seems pretty reasonable. My issue is with escalating the insults out of pure meanness. I think remarks about people's kids are probably the most excessive examples of this, but death wishes are certainly right up there.

I violated my own personal ethics by attacking Abacab that way, which is precisely why I apologized to him. If you can point out other people I've ridiculed in these forums based on their real lives rather than their behavior here or in game, I would certainly appreciate that because I owe them an apology as well.

Perhaps these distinctions are lost on you. If that's the case, you're stupid. (You see what I did there?)

[Alawen Everywhere]

You called me a loser :(

While I don't wish death upon you, I certain wish I could kill your hair with fire.

That's surprising that my opinion of you would matter.

Sadly, your opinion of me means very little, but you did choose to be an anonymous troll.

[Phallax]

Oh picture time!

Camping =

http://www.infamous-adventures.com/downloads/elephant-poop.jpg

now THATS a poopsock.

[Abacabb]

I violated my own personal ethics by attacking Abacab that way, which is precisely why I apologized to him.

lolwut?

[rioisk]

nobody can beat the mach 5 at mobilizing

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b83/Sango_Miroku_belong/Speed%20racer/speed-racer-car.jpg

[Alawen Everywhere]

lolwut?

Please see this thread (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10002).

[G13]

Okay, since you decided to not reply with insults and take the fun out of RnF I suppose I will be more adult as well (asshole). I am in no way implying that the end goal and/or result of either strategy (mobilizing or camping) is any different. I get that. I am even more than willing to concede that of the two strategies camping is more likely to yield the desired result.

The thing I don't think you understand is that both scenarios require the same effort in terms of mobilization. 2 guilds are being proactive and preparing for the boss's spawn in advance. Nothing is stopping another guild from mobilizing before them and claiming the spawn. The situation as it stands now, is that both DA and IB are committing themselves and mobilizing for mobs way in advance because they want the boss kills/loot more than anyone else. Other guilds are not willing to do that, which is perfectly fine. It's their choice.

You still need to plan and coordinate accordingly. You still need your frost potions. You still need to coordinate bindspots, ect. The logical conclusion in terms of efficient is finding any way possible to cut down on time to be ready to kill a boss when it pops. Whether you have a 15 in zone first rule or not, it all depends on how badly a group of people want a boss and what they are willing to do in order to get it. You still need to pick your targets and think of ways to throw the other guild off their game, IE, calling timers, putting pressure, ect. Like it not, the current raid rules create a competitive game that has been being played.

I also get that right now this is a contest of wills between IB and DA. The desired result is for one of the guilds to break and admit defeat and more likely than not crumble as a result. To further this end both guilds have significantly lower standards of recruitment than is common for these types of guilds in a healthier competative environment. The current strategy being asses glued to the ground does not really require upper tier players and is honestly best accomplished by people who are bad at the game as you don't want your decent players getting burned out. Obviously once the other guild concedes most of these fail players will find themselves looking for guild yet again for some simple excuse or another.

You're right. It is a contest of wills between IB and DA. I don't believe that DA has lowered it's standards of recruitment, nor has IB. They have an application process where anyone can apply. You're given a fair shot to become a member. Not everyone gets into the guild. The lvl 50 game is very top heavy at the moment, with 2 guilds killing all the bosses. Obviously those 2 guilds are going to get more apps. You still need to be a competent player to help your guild when it counts. Like I said before, it's not like these mobs spawn on a silver platter. You still need to clear to them, pull properly, buff, and execute within a specific timer in order to get the kill.


I get all this. My point is simply that you CANNOT claim that camping and mobilization are the same thing. One (assuming you are not a piece of shit boxing whore... oh haaay haven't IP exemption requests been on the rise lately?!) requires your only character to sit doing nothing in one place for probably the entire time you are logged in. The other requires you to drop what you are doing and get some place in a short window of time. Whether or not you get the boss at the end is not the point I am making here. The point is that with a camping strat, I would be stuck sitting in place and unable to play my character. Were the strat mobilization, I would be able to do whatever I wanted 99% of the time and simply have to park my character in a convenient location when I am NOT playing. I don't know about you but I don't really care where my character is sitting while I am not in game.

You get all this, but you don't seem to to be grasping it. Getting the boss at the end IS the point of both DA and IB. The "camping" strategy is nothing more than a proactive mobilization strategy. You don't want to mobilize for a boss until it spawns, which is your choice. Other people have decided to be proactive.

I am indifferent as to the WHY of you choosing to do these things. I just think it's silly that people would even try and compare the two strats and claim they are equal and have equal impact on the lives and or in game enjoyment of the people involved in executing them. I find it REALLY hard to believe that the majority of the people involved in this camping catastrophe find it fun. I would be willing to wager that if the guilds coming out on top of this clusterfuck (IB and DA) felt they could retain the same degree of boss kills in a situation that didn't require camping, then that is what we would see happening. Right now, so long as camping gets you a guaranteed boss claim, if one guild is camping the other will follow suit. The current rules only allow you to fight camping with more camping.

Such a horrible situation regardless of how many shiny things it nets your guild.

This is your opinion, which is fine. What you find "fun" or "not fun" someone else enjoys because it's not about the camping. It's about the politics and the deeper strategic game being played on the board. It's about the guild VS game. Not the mob game.

The "Why" people do these things is the most important part. There is no difference in the strats because when the boss spawns, both guilds still have to do the same thing. Clear to the boss and execute. One guild is just taking the initiative to be in the best possible position when the boss happens to spawn. I don't begrudge anyone for doing that because it's logical. You have to understand that the precedent was set when a guild had a druid in each zone camping 24/7. They would wake up at 3 AM to quickly port in which took minutes and then kill the boss. Why would anyone competing with these circumstances play by their rules? If you want to beat them, you mobilize in the zone before they do, IE have your raid force ready and waiting before the spawn. They still have to do the exact same clearing, buffing, and execution.

The other guild that was porting in is perfectly in their right to roll call you and timer you. Nobody is stopping any guild or group of people from doing this. You don't have to camp anything either. You can wait until the boss spawns and roll call. If they answer the roll call in 1 minute, you call timer. No camping needed either. The burden is on the shoulders of the guild that mobilized days in advance. Not you.

[bullet]

Sharing is caring.

http://www.dragonbreath.nl/images/balancerev.jpg

[Phallax]

That card pissed me off so bad back then, cuz i almsot never played white. and loved my elf decks of mass elves and lands, and this would get pulled and i QQed

[bullet]

That card pissed me off so bad back then, cuz i almsot never played white. and loved my elf decks of mass elves and lands, and this would get pulled and i QQed

Hehe, classic MTG was nice. Maybe this will ring a bell :)

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7882/33kelie.jpg

[Alawen Everywhere]

http://www.dragonbreath.nl/images/counterspellbeta.jpg

(Notice that my beta > your revised.)

[Phallax]

Hehe, classic MTG was nice. Maybe this will ring a bell :)

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/7882/33kelie.jpg

Leviathan!

[Alawen Everywhere]

http://www.dragonbreath.nl/images/control_magic.jpg

Noobs.

[Phallax]

http://vandel.dk/magic/artifact/Black%20Lotus.jpg

I knew a kid who had 2 of these, his dad bought him anything he wanted...had a few mox's too..

[astarothel]

http://www.wunderland.com/WTS/Andy/ProjectEBAY/pics/MtGSingles/TimeWalk.jpg

So delicious. Time Walk was one of the few cards I kept when I sold my first collection for tuition moneys.

[Phallax]

http://www.coolstuffinc.com/images/Products/mtg%20art/Starter/Relentless%20Assault.jpg

this was my favorite card before I quit, quit after this expansion too, or maybe the following, cant remember

[astarothel]

skwerls?

[Phallax]

wow it was there for a second! lol

Relentless Assault.

they must have some sort of restriction on linking

[astarothel]

Here I thought you were just making some comment about Hermits and squirrel decks haha

[bullet]

wow it was there for a second! lol

Relentless Assault.

they must have some sort of restriction on linking

Bad memories from goblin decks :)

Can't resist downloading now, classic mtg from microprose. Done derailing!

http://elpixeblogdepedja.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/shandalar.jpg

[Erasong]

im going to renew my Aion account. fuck you bitches! ;)

[Alawen Everywhere]

The Suicide King idea for raid rotation keeps reminding me of my favorite deck of all time with the same name, created by my friend Brian Schneider. It was in the High Tide era and looked like this:

4 Mishra's Factory
14 Swamp
4 Wasteland

4 Carnophage
2 Flesh Reaver
4 Skittering Skirge
4 Sarcomancy

4 Dark Ritual
4 Demonic Consultation
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Cursed Scroll
4 Sphere of Resistence

Incredibly fun to play, incredibly disruptive, most amazing metagame call ever.

[astarothel]

Anyone remember the Magic: The Gathering Interactive Encyclopedia.
That thing was pretty amazing for decktesting.

[eqdruid76]

Didn't every single live server have a raid calender?

[Alawen Everywhere]

Anyone remember the Magic: The Gathering Interactive Encyclopedia.
That thing was pretty amazing for decktesting.

I always used Apprentice for initial testing even though the shuffler was so damned awful.

[astarothel]

I always used Apprentice for initial testing even though the shuffler was so damned awful.

I preferred the versatility of Encyclopedia. That said, the interactive's databases were fucking brutal, and it wasn't coded well.

[Abacabb]

http://memegenerator.net/Cunning-Black-Strategist/ImageMacro/1359425/Cunning-Black-Strategist-My-deck-is-impervious-Now-I-draw-my-card.jpg

[Alawen Everywhere]

It's really sad that none of us are calling each other nerds.

Fucking nerds.

[Phallax]

Didn't every single live server have a raid calender?

Whoa whoa wait, are you trying to get back on topic?!?! Nooooo! This thread is derailed beyond repair, stick with the derailment!

[astarothel]

Didn't every single live server have a raid calender?

No. Many did not because they had communities able to work something out that wasn't a straight up rotation.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Didn't every single live server have a raid calender?

I played on quite a few servers on live--Sullon Zek, Kane Bayle, Venril Sathir and Stromm. None of them had a calendar while I played. I also played on Xev but I was a total noob and I have no idea who the top guilds even were, I was busy farming Steins of Moggok and mammoth tusks and cybering some freaky goth chick from Texas.

[Wonton]

/guildwar imo!

[eqdruid76]

No. Many did not because they had communities able to work something out that wasn't a straight up rotation.

Well, we don't. So maybe that's a better option?

In other words, we're too stupid to figure this out for ourselves, so why not let the staff tell us what to do and when to do it?

[Alawen Everywhere]

Well, we don't. So maybe that's a better option?

In other words, we're too stupid to figure this out for ourselves, so why not let the staff tell us what to do and when to do it?

The staff has made it pretty clear that they want us to work it out amongst ourselves.

[Raren]

/guildwar imo!

Im down with that

[eqdruid76]

The staff has made it pretty clear that they want us to work it out amongst ourselves.

I don't see that happening, do you? Does anyone?

[Phallax]

Back in true classic, most didnt have cable to stay online and camp like this 24/7. Im sure if majority(if not all) of the population had cable like we do these days, Im sure this would have been seen more, in all honesty.

The dominate guilds prevailed because they just happened to be on in force when stuff spawned and mobilized to it, usually knowing when it would spawn. Also most servers didnt have as high of volume of guilds able/willing to raid. Most came to p99 to re-live the classic raiding experience, thus we see more raiders available on 1 server compared to then.

[astarothel]

I don't see that happening, do you? Does anyone?

You might be surprised.

[Bones]

Back in true classic, most didnt have cable to stay online and camp like this 24/7. Im sure if majority(if not all) of the population had cable like we do these days, Im sure this would have been seen more, in all honesty.

The dominate guilds prevailed because they just happened to be on in force when stuff spawned and mobilized to it, usually knowing when it would spawn. Also most servers didnt have as high of volume of guilds able/willing to raid. Most came to p99 to re-live the classic raiding experience, thus we see more raiders available on 1 server compared to then.
Yup. And also I don't remember being able to bat phone through internet programs to alert the guild to log in and kill bosses at 4 A.M... Because God forbid a raid target lives longer than an hour after popping.

[astarothel]

Yup. And also I don't remember being able to bat phone through internet programs to alert the guild to log in and kill bosses at 4 A.M... Because God forbid a raid target lives longer than an hour after popping.

IRC wut?

But no seriously IRC was the oldschool batphone. You'd sit in it in a guildchannel if you weren't online

[jilena]

The thing I don't think you understand is that both scenarios require the same effort in terms of mobilization.

I don't get what you are saying here. Obviously it takes the same amount of "effort" to move now or move later, to have your resist gear on you, to be ready to kill the boss now or later. However there is no comparing how inefficient one strategy is in terms of time spent. One strategy allows you to play the game 95% of the time, the other strategy tethers your character to a single location.

I don't see how you can even argue that there is a comparable amount of "fun" being had here. If you continue to do so I feel you are just being illogical to make your case sound better. Any 4 year old can be used to prove my point. Ground them to their room for some indefinite period of time until supper is ready or let them go run around doing whatever they want until it's time to eat. Observe and let me know which one looks like more fun.


2 guilds are being proactive and preparing for the boss's spawn in advance. Nothing is stopping another guild from mobilizing before them and claiming the spawn. The situation as it stands now, is that both DA and IB are committing themselves and mobilizing for mobs way in advance because they want the boss kills/loot more than anyone else. Other guilds are not willing to do that, which is perfectly fine. It's their choice.

Well I am not trying to be super pro IB here. I am not in either guild and I have friends in both. I do however believe the sincerity of their "if you stop camping a raid force in front of each boss we will too" statements. I know not a single person in any guild who is fond of this situation. I am not saying this doesn't count as competition and doesn't give you guys some means of trying to edge IB out of their control of the server's top end loot. I am however saying that this competition is one that is as heavily reliant on masochism as it is any sort of organization or mobilization ability.



You're right. It is a contest of wills between IB and DA. I don't believe that DA has lowered it's standards of recruitment, nor has IB. They have an application process where anyone can apply. You're given a fair shot to become a member. Not everyone gets into the guild. The lvl 50 game is very top heavy at the moment, with 2 guilds killing all the bosses. Obviously those 2 guilds are going to get more apps. You still need to be a competent player to help your guild when it counts.

Haha I dunno man, I see a LOT of people with these tags now. And it is almost impossible to maintain quality when quantity starts becoming more and more important. I see both guilds kicking the obvious fuck ups, but I get the feeling the overall skill in both guilds has diminished significantly (well DA picking up some IV folks prolly was a step up from FB) since camping has become rampant.


You get all this, but you don't seem to to be grasping it. Getting the boss at the end IS the point of both DA and IB. The "camping" strategy is nothing more than a proactive mobilization strategy. You don't want to mobilize for a boss until it spawns, which is your choice. Other people have decided to be proactive.

...

The "Why" people do these things is the most important part. There is no difference in the strats because when the boss spawns, both guilds still have to do the same thing.

...

The other guild that was porting in is perfectly in their right to roll call you and timer you. Nobody is stopping any guild or group of people from doing this. You don't have to camp anything either. You can wait until the boss spawns and roll call. If they answer the roll call in 1 minute, you call timer. No camping needed either. The burden is on the shoulders of the guild that mobilized days in advance. Not you.

Chopped that up a little bit to be less wall of text quoted moreso than trying to take anything out of context. I am not arguing motivations here. I am arguing that as far as the general health of both guilds is concerned, this camping shit will eventually have to stop. I KNOW both guilds want the loot, and I KNOW that is the reason for the current situation, and I KNOW that so long as it provides the best chance for some guild to get said loot it will continue unless something is done to change it. You can call it being more proactive if you want. To me it's just abusing the spirit of the rules in place to find a way to guarantee yourselves first shot at a boss. *shrug*

[Phallax]

IRC wut?

But no seriously IRC was the oldschool batphone. You'd sit in it in a guildchannel if you weren't online

still required you to be at your pc, twitter does not

[astarothel]

still required you to be at your pc, twitter does not

Ehhhhh, sound notification. I could hear it even from outside the house with it cranked. Maybe that was just us tho.

[Phallax]

Ehhhhh, sound notification. I could hear it even from outside the house with it cranked. Maybe that was just us tho.

I was in a pretty dominate guild, we cotrolled pretty much any target we wanted on Tunare, so Im not really familiar with batphoning back then, altho I did have my fair share of it on WoW for world spawns pre-BC.

[Bones]

IRC wut?

But no seriously IRC was the oldschool batphone. You'd sit in it in a guildchannel if you weren't online
Right. Although there's a good chance that won't wake you up if you decide to sleep for a few hours while camping a boss, and it pops.
Now people can just sit in a vent channel, turn their speakers up and have someone yell into it to wake them up when their target pops.

[Phallax]

We had a rule on WoW for world spawns, first force to start clearing trash owned the target untill they failed. Was no time limits, just first to start clearing trash. So roughly the first guild/force with 3 or so members at green dragons.

[astarothel]

Right. Although there's a good chance that won't wake you up if you decide to sleep for a few hours while camping a boss, and it pops.
Now people can just sit in a vent channel, turn their speakers up and have someone yell into it to wake them up when their target pops.

mIRC notification is pretty brutal. Think it's woken the dead a couple times.

[xorbier]

Poor poor IB.

You dominate the server then get butthurt when some new guild comes along and starts beating you at your own game. You should keep insulting everyone and cry more. It makes you look good! :)

It appears to me that DA has put forth more time and effort and has had better strategy to out play you the last several weeks. I believe you've lost 2 out of the last 3 weeks. I'm so very sorry!

Your response is to insult and complain. It's sad really. Especially when you claim to be the better guild who's "morally" superior. You've clearly established the contrary.

I've personally seen people like Alawen flame guilds in OOC on multiple occasions which is great representation for IB.

Over all this is sooo classic EQ and I love it. It was exactly like this on the server I played on and I enjoyed the competition. More playing and less complaining!

[astarothel]

It appears to me that DA has put forth more time and effort and has had better strategy to out play you the last several weeks.

Can I have some of the fucking drugs you're on?
More time, maybe. It's not strategy to stay logged in and AFK 24/7.

[Erasong]

Poor poor IB.

You dominate the server then get butthurt when some new guild comes along and starts beating you at your own game. You should keep insulting everyone and cry more. It makes you look good! :)

It appears to me that DA has put forth more time and effort and has had better strategy to out play you the last several weeks. I believe you've lost 2 out of the last 3 weeks. I'm so very sorry!

Your response is to insult and complain. It's sad really. Especially when you claim to be the better guild who's "morally" superior. You've clearly established the contrary.

I've personally seen people like Alawen flame guilds in OOC on multiple occasions which is great representation for IB.

Over all this is sooo classic EQ and I love it. It was exactly like this on the server I played on and I enjoyed the competition. More playing and less complaining!

we havent lost. we obviously dont have the same level of importance on mobs like maestro.

[G13]

I don't get what you are saying here. Obviously it takes the same amount of "effort" to move now or move later, to have your resist gear on you, to be ready to kill the boss now or later. However there is no comparing how inefficient one strategy is in terms of time spent. One strategy allows you to play the game 95% of the time, the other strategy tethers your character to a single location.

Let me make it crystal clear for you. To some people, the strategic part of mobilizing in advance for mobs, maintaining numbers in the zone, clearing trash in rotations, and guaranteeing their right to the boss IS playing the game. Not farming in guk. Not crafting. Not sitting in EC tunnel. They don't care if their character is tethered to one location. They want to win.

I don't see how you can even argue that there is a comparable amount of "fun" being had here. If you continue to do so I feel you are just being illogical to make your case sound better. Any 4 year old can be used to prove my point. Ground them to their room for some indefinite period of time until supper is ready or let them go run around doing whatever they want until it's time to eat. Observe and let me know which one looks like more fun.

Your "fun" is not the same as someone else's "fun". You're looking at the situation in "All or Nothing/Black/White" terms. Competing with a guild, gearing your friends, and strategically moving your forces around in anticipation of boss spawns is "fun" to some people. It's not like there isn't something to do when you're sitting in Fear waiting for CT. You coordinate trash clears, get people geared, ect. You don't even need everyone there anyways. You only need 15 people. It's not difficult to get people willing to hold numbers. They want the mobs and killing them is worth it. It's a war against the rival guild. You do what it takes to win. That's the "game" to people in DA and IB right now.

Well I am not trying to be super pro IB here. I am not in either guild and I have friends in both. I do however believe the sincerity of their "if you stop camping a raid force in front of each boss we will too" statements. I know not a single person in any guild who is fond of this situation. I am not saying this doesn't count as competition and doesn't give you guys some means of trying to edge IB out of their control of the server's top end loot. I am however saying that this competition is one that is as heavily reliant on masochism as it is any sort of organization or mobilization ability.

FFA would not stop mob camping. I wouldn't wait for a "on your mark. Get set. GO" as soon as a boss pops. Why bother doing that when you can prepare much farther in advance, and coordinate your moves in anticipation of other spawns? I'm thinking 3-4 boss mobs in advance. Why limit my guild's ability to be successful by getting bogged down waiting for one spawn while I sit where? In a designated "locker room" somewhere like WC to make it fair? What we now have to camp out in WC now? I can't sit my force in the zone and wait? You're now talking about MORE rules, hurting the guild that wants to be proactive and prepare way ahead of time and be ready when the boss spawns and put themselves in the best position possible for potential boss spawns after. FFA would lead to even more camping. Any guild worth it's salt would go the most efficient route, which is preparing way ahead in advance. There is no stopping it.

This will never be an instanced game. I think some people's sense of nostalgia is a bit cloudy. They don't realize that EQ's end game is terribly flawed. Sure it's fine when one guild dominates, but when there are 2 guilds on the same server putting in the exact same amount of effort, and doing anything it takes to kill bosses, the end result is what you now see on P99. Neither willing to blink and falling victim to their egos. Unwilling to admit a compromise needs to be made. That's why rotations were set up on some servers. The overall health and stability of the server became more important than feeding the powergamer egos of a certain set of hardcore players. P99 has a decision to make. Like it or not, you people need to decide the route this server is going to go. Currently, it's being run by powergamers with massive egos, so much so that it has become an unhealthy environment. if IB and DA fade out, other guilds are just going to take their place with the same attitude. "Do whatever it takes to kill the boss"

Haha I dunno man, I see a LOT of people with these tags now. And it is almost impossible to maintain quality when quantity starts becoming more and more important. I see both guilds kicking the obvious fuck ups, but I get the feeling the overall skill in both guilds has diminished significantly (well DA picking up some IV folks prolly was a step up from FB) since camping has become rampant.

You're assuming that everyone playing this game is a newbie. That is not the case. Most people are MMO veterans with many games/raids under their belt. There aren't many people from FB left on this server either. Maybe 5-6. The rest are post FB.

Chopped that up a little bit to be less wall of text quoted moreso than trying to take anything out of context. I am not arguing motivations here. I am arguing that as far as the general health of both guilds is concerned, this camping shit will eventually have to stop. I KNOW both guilds want the loot, and I KNOW that is the reason for the current situation, and I KNOW that so long as it provides the best chance for some guild to get said loot it will continue unless something is done to change it. You can call it being more proactive if you want. To me it's just abusing the spirit of the rules in place to find a way to guarantee yourselves first shot at a boss. *shrug*

There are people in both guilds that agree with you. It's why Nizzarr created the post to begin with. He recognizes that there is a problem. Do you want to know what the real problem is? EGO. IB set the precedent on what other guilds would have to do on this server a long time if they wanted boss mobs. They had a system down, which was relatively easy, that guaranteed them all the bosses. Nobody was willing to put in the effort for a long time to compete with them. Things change though. IB has never handled their position as #1 with any tact or grace. On the contrary, they rubbed it in your face with insults and taunts. They pissed off a lot of people to the point where they are now willing to do whatever it takes to kill a boss. Hence, we now have a standoff.

I don't begrudge IB for doing what they wanted to do. Keep everyone else from engaging a single mob, getting geared, and keeping their iron boot on the content. So another guild came along, and upped the stakes. Instead of a druid, they decided to just be rdy when the mob spawns. It's the inevitable conclusion to using a druid. It's called the "logical next step" to organize and mobilize faster than the other guy. There were many bumps in the road along the way. Failures and successes. Suddenly IB couldn't stay logged off and then login real quick to fight a boss for easy loot. They had to play by someone else's rules, and I understand why they don't like that. Except what you see here are rules they helped design. Not DA. So in reality, they are playing by their own rules, but that's not working out in their favor like it used to, so they want to change it to FFA. The problem is FFA won't make the problem go away. It's going to make it worse.

[G13]

we havent lost. we obviously dont have the same level of importance on mobs like maestro.

When DA focused on Vox, which put them at an obvious disadvantage for every other mob, Alawen was here on the boards claiming IB was "kicking DA's ass". You guys set the precedent for "number of mobs = who is the best" when in reality Vox has become a complete cockblock for any guild wishing to focus on her.

You also roll with the variance. Sometimes you get luck with early spawns that catch the other team off guard. Sometimes you don't. So like Nizzarr said, we are already on a rotation. It's just an unspoken one. Egos won't allow for it to become official.

[spoolie]

ding ding ding we have a winner. excellent post

[Phallax]

Poor poor IB.

You dominate the server then get butthurt when some new guild comes along and starts beating you at your own game. You should keep insulting everyone and cry more. It makes you look good! :)

It appears to me that DA has put forth more time and effort and has had better strategy to out play you the last several weeks. I believe you've lost 2 out of the last 3 weeks. I'm so very sorry!

Your response is to insult and complain. It's sad really. Especially when you claim to be the better guild who's "morally" superior. You've clearly established the contrary.

I've personally seen people like Alawen flame guilds in OOC on multiple occasions which is great representation for IB.

Over all this is sooo classic EQ and I love it. It was exactly like this on the server I played on and I enjoyed the competition. More playing and less complaining!

ATM both guilds are losing, with the way the current raiding scene is there are no winners, unless its an outside guild getting a lucky spawn and kill.

And how can you say "Poor poor IB" when a DA member started this thread so obviously it was IB crying when a DA member started the thread, right?

[Alawen Everywhere]

Poor poor IB.

You dominate the server then get butthurt when some new guild comes along and starts beating you at your own game. You should keep insulting everyone and cry more. It makes you look good! :)

It appears to me that DA has put forth more time and effort and has had better strategy to out play you the last several weeks. I believe you've lost 2 out of the last 3 weeks. I'm so very sorry!

Your response is to insult and complain. It's sad really. Especially when you claim to be the better guild who's "morally" superior. You've clearly established the contrary.

I've personally seen people like Alawen flame guilds in OOC on multiple occasions which is great representation for IB.

Over all this is sooo classic EQ and I love it. It was exactly like this on the server I played on and I enjoyed the competition. More playing and less complaining!

I'm calling bullshit on you, sir. A little over a week ago, I sat next to DA chatting about things from live while we all waited on draco. Things are only testy now because I disagree with your little carebear plan. I congratulated you on your CT kill and complimented Raren on his robe when I ran into him today in NFP.

If you want to make claims about what I've done, you better back them up with screen shots. I gave you a little grief yesterday after you trained me, but before that things were always friendly between DA and I. I wasn't around for the big conflicts between Transcendence and IB, so there's no bad blood there. I've had no significant issues with Divinity, Remedy, Gothic Circle or any of the up and coming guilds and in this very thread I have been in agreement with the group saying there are more than four guilds to be considered for a rotation.

DA picked this fight with IB. You wanted your share of the raid mobs. Now you have them and you want to reduce the amount of work you do for them. For some reason, you think you get to talk a lot of shit about IB and nothing will come back at you.

That's just too bad, son. If your strategy is unsustainable, you'll just have to come up with a new strategy. If not, your guild will go the way of things like the dodo bird. That's life. Life's not about fair. Life's about the strong eating the weak. That's why your get in line and take your turn plan is so unattractive to some of us. We're strong and we want MORE.

[xorbier]

Woot! Personal insults. I win the argument. :D

[astarothel]

Woot! Personal insults. I win the argument. :D

Uh. You don't win if you started with them. Nice try tho.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Is he talking about my post? Which part is personal? I don't even know who he is.

[hyzon]

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f304/AHyson/NetTroll.jpg

[astarothel]

Munchkin is fking amazing btw.

[Gwence]

I would probably agree we are on somewhat of an unofficial rotation, but even if we made it official we would still probably have to camp to block out the other guilds, probably not to the extent we do now but I dont think the camping would stop.

But seeing as how we went 3 to 1 on the big four last week (including 2 draco kills), I'd rather continue fighting.

And stop acting like maestro is a big deal we stopped caring about that mob over a month ago.

[G13]

I'm calling bullshit on you, sir. A little over a week ago, I sat next to DA chatting about things from live while we all waited on draco. Things are only testy now because I disagree with your little carebear plan. I congratulated you on your CT kill and complimented Raren on his robe when I ran into him today in NFP.

I've personally witnessed your attempts at trying to chip away at a rival guild's morale. Some examples include in Fear:

"Why are you even trying? You aren't going to kill the mob. You suck, ect."

"You can't compete against IB. Why are you bothering? We are better than you ect."

Other examples include Hasbinbad and Wonton taunting other guilds as they fail boss encounters. "You feel as if you are about to fail" ect. That wasn't Divinity doing it. Not Trans. Not DA. It was IB.


If you want to make claims about what I've done, you better back them up with screen shots. I gave you a little grief yesterday after you trained me, but before that things were always friendly between DA and I. I wasn't around for the big conflicts between Transcendence and IB, so there's no bad blood there. I've had no significant issues with Divinity, Remedy, Gothic Circle or any of the up and coming guilds and in this very thread I have been in agreement with the group saying there are more than four guilds to be considered for a rotation.

You are the type of player that has an issue with another guild threatening your ability to kill all the mobs on the server. That guild happens to be DA at the moment. If it wasn't DA, it would be someone else.

DA picked this fight with IB. You wanted your share of the raid mobs. Now you have them and you want to reduce the amount of work you do for them. For some reason, you think you get to talk a lot of shit about IB and nothing will come back at you.

On the contrary, IB picked a fight with the server a long time ago before DA was even formed. You made your intentions clear, staked your claims, and made it known how extreme competition would be for even a boss mob you didn't want or need. I have to take issue with your misconception that camping a boss mob with a force of 15 is "less work". It isn't. You should know how much work camping actually is, since you've been the main IB tracker now for months. So now entire guilds are doing what you were doing by yourself and you want to call that less work?

And I've already stated in other threads. Camping out in WC, or binding in a boss zone, or WC or whatever for a quick port is not "more work" than someone already sitting in the zone. Each guild still needs to do the exact same thing. Clear/buff/kill boss in 30 minutes. One guild just feels they are more skilled if they don't IN the zone and WC instead or something. Strategically that's piss poor planning and your leadership knows it which is your guild is sitting in SoL B atm.

That's just too bad, son. If your strategy is unsustainable, you'll just have to come up with a new strategy. If not, your guild will go the way of things like the dodo bird. That's life. Life's not about fair. Life's about the strong eating the weak. That's why your get in line and take your turn plan is so unattractive to some of us. We're strong and we want MORE.

Nobody said the strategy was unsustainable. As long as people are willing to put in the work, the strategy is sustainable. You don't see even see the irony within your own post. Your "strategy" of relying upon druids to do your camping for you has become obsolete. You are now being forced to adapt or go the way of the dodo bird. Any raiding situation someone devises is going to have the same issues. Guilds devising the most efficient way possible to guarantee themselves as many boss mobs as possible.

[Aadill]

And stop acting like maestro is a big deal we stopped caring about that mob over a month ago.

Didn't want that seven stringed loot, anyway

Oh man I'm clever.

[G13]

I would probably agree we are on somewhat of an unofficial rotation, but even if we made it official we would still probably have to camp to block out the other guilds, probably not to the extent we do now but I dont think the camping would stop.

But seeing as how we went 3 to 1 on the big four last week (including 2 draco kills), I'd rather continue fighting.

And stop acting like maestro is a big deal we stopped caring about that mob over a month ago.

The thing is, whoever focuses on Vox is automatically at a disadvantage. If you decide you want Vox, you are taking a gamble with the variance. You are unable to split your forces as effectively ect. Vox requires a much larger force than any other boss in the game due to her complete heal and mana.

You can see the evidence of that this week. DA is working in its second draco. They killed Inny. CT. Maestro. They can potentially get even another draco before Naggy even spawns. You guys are in a rotation of your own making already, you just haven't realized it.

[Alawen Everywhere]

I've personally witnessed your attempts at trying to chip away at a rival guild's morale. Some examples include in Fear:

"Why are you even trying? You aren't going to kill the mob. You suck, ect."

"You can't compete against IB. Why are you bothering? We are better than you ect."

Other examples include Hasbinbad and Wonton taunting other guilds as they fail boss encounters. "You feel as if you are about to fail" ect. That wasn't Divinity doing it. Not Trans. Not DA. It was IB.




You are the type of player that has an issue with another guild threatening your ability to kill all the mobs on the server. That guild happens to be DA at the moment. If it wasn't DA, it would be someone else.



On the contrary, IB picked a fight with the server a long time ago before DA was even formed. You made your intentions clear, staked your claims, and made it known how extreme competition would be for even a boss mob you didn't want or need. I have to take issue with your misconception that camping a boss mob with a force of 15 is "less work". It isn't. You should know how much work camping actually is, since you've been the main IB tracker now for months. So now entire guilds are doing what you were doing by yourself and you want to call that less work?

And I've already stated in other threads. Camping out in WC, or binding in a boss zone, or WC or whatever for a quick port is not "more work" than someone already sitting in the zone. Each guild still needs to do the exact same thing. Clear/buff/kill boss in 30 minutes. One guild just feels they are more skilled if they don't IN the zone and WC instead or something. Strategically that's piss poor planning and your leadership knows it which is your guild is sitting in SoL B atm.



Nobody said the strategy was unsustainable. As long as people are willing to put in the work, the strategy is sustainable. You don't see even see the irony within your own post. Your "strategy" of relying upon druids to do your camping for you has become obsolete. You are now being forced to adapt or go the way of the dodo bird. Any raiding situation someone devises is going to have the same issues. Guilds devising the most efficient way possible to guarantee themselves as many boss mobs as possible.

Hi, my name is Alawen. My alts are Daire and Qwin. I don't play Wonton, I don't play Hasbinbad. Alawen, Daire, Qwin.

None of the things you're claiming I said even sound anything like me. I said one thing along the lines of what you're claiming. I asked why you split dps between multiple mobs and whether it was because the hit box wasn't big enough for all of you, implying a zerg when you were clearing fear with 54 people. I don't say shit like you're going to fail. How the fuck are you going to fail any of these encounters? When I'm watching Fear with you, I'm just waiting for the kill time.

As I've said many times, I like competition. If it's not obvious, I enjoy this drama. If we didn't have this rivalry with DA, I'd be sitting here watching the stock market or reading a book and pressing [ Tracking ] when I turn the page.

I really just wish some of you would demonstrate something resembling a sense of humor instead of acting like a guy with a little dick. Even your attacks are defensive, it's pathetic. While I'm wishing, could someone with some talent for drawing or photoshop mashups step up? Original graphics are a lot funnier than links to eBaum's World.

Also, the t comes before the c in et cetera.

[Taxi]

We hit page 50. I think you guys deserve an Hacksaw Jim Duggan picture.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2004/01/21/duggan_hacksaw.jpg

[rioisk]

Back in true classic, most didnt have cable to stay online and camp like this 24/7. Im sure if majority(if not all) of the population had cable like we do these days, Im sure this would have been seen more, in all honesty.

The dominate guilds prevailed because they just happened to be on in force when stuff spawned and mobilized to it, usually knowing when it would spawn. Also most servers didnt have as high of volume of guilds able/willing to raid. Most came to p99 to re-live the classic raiding experience, thus we see more raiders available on 1 server compared to then.

^^this