Rules clarification

[Metallikus]

taken from Rogaen on the raid play nice policy thread:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667

"Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected."

Two raid guilds are in Trakanon's lair within agro range. TMO frapsed and screenshotted their raid force getting to agro range of a Trakanon spawn in Trakanon's lair. Zeelot sent a tell to the BDA raid leader and said they have proof that their raid force was on the spawn point with 15 and that BDa should leave because the mob is theirs. If BDA is forced out with this rules lawyering, why would TMO not have to keep their raid force (or 15) within agro range? As soon as BDA left the zone, TMO backs off everyone from agro range.

What is the point of this rule? Guilds don't want to stand on Trakanon's spawn point for 9 hours. Why should TMO be able to walk up with 15 people and have the opposing raid force removed if they aren't willing to keep their raid force there? This is poor form rules lawyering.

BTW, Amelinda was contacted during this action on irc and refused to comment.

[arsenalpow]

well to be more exact BDA had 40+ clearing juggs and we were camped at Jumpy, TMO walked 15 to Trak's spawn point and claimed him. Rules lawyering at it's finest.

Amelinda was busy, i don't think she declined to comment.

[Tarathiel]

pretty dumb rule if you ask me, i doubt 15 of even the best geared people could kill trak

[Autotune]

Bet if BDA had called 15 on spawn first and had fraps/SS's there wouldn't be this thread.

[Susano]

Bet if BDA had called 15 on spawn first and had fraps/SS's there wouldn't be this thread.

I bet if they did, you'd be one of the first to call them out on it.

[arsenalpow]

if TMO had 40+ clearing juggs and were sitting at jumpy you can bet BDA wouldn't have attempted something that shady.

[Autotune]

I bet if they did, you'd be one of the first to call them out on it.

yeah, because it's totally happened every single time prior when it was used against TMO. Totally forgot that, thanks.

if TMO had 40+ clearing juggs and were sitting at jumpy you can bet BDA wouldn't have attempted something that shady.

So you were socking outside the aggro radius with 40+ and got out socked on the reason you were socking (trakanon) and complain. Gotcha.

[SyanideGas]

if TMO had 40+ clearing juggs and were sitting at jumpy you can bet BDA wouldn't have attempted something that shady.

[arsenalpow]

yeah, because it's totally happened every single time prior when it was used against TMO. Totally forgot that, thanks.

We don't want to play like that. It's ridiculous.

The bottom line is BDA had 40+ clearing juggs for numerous hours sitting at jumpy and TMO laid claim to Trak using first to 15 rules lawyering. It's shady, and it's bullshit. I personally called the raid off because tempers were flaring, and we weren't going to sit there and try to FTE trak and deal with the aftermath. BDA will not play that way.

I'm sorry TMO had to deal with IB pulling that type of shit but the cycle needs to stop for the health of the server.

[arsenalpow]

So you were socking outside the aggro radius with 40+ and got out socked on the reason you were socking (trakanon) and complain. Gotcha.

jumpy is within the aggro radius, it's moot though. We left.

[Autotune]

jumpy is within the aggro radius, it's moot though. We left.

no he isn't, quit being stupid. Unless Trak's radius was increased 2.5x Jumpy is no where near Trak's aggro radius.

[Ele]

we weren't going to sit there and try to FTE trak and deal with the aftermath.

FTE wouldn't have applied in that situation anyway, unless the guilds had otherwise stipulated.

The rules of engagement for raid bosses on Project 1999 are First to Engage (FTE) in any situation that is not covered below.

With one of the situations being:
Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

[Harrison]

Raid suspend TMO again, for the benefit of the server. These disgusting assholes are ruining it.

[arsenalpow]

FTE wouldn't have applied in that situation anyway, unless the guilds had otherwise stipulated.

This was assuming we felt we were still entitled to Trak. If he had spawned it would have been a FTE shitfest with GMs having to sort it all out, but again we left, it's moot.

[Metallikus]

http://i.imgur.com/ScoOV.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/ScoOV)

just want clarification of this rule. Do you bully the other raid out and have to stay on spawn or do you get to cower away after they leave?

[Tarathiel]

http://i.imgur.com/ScoOV.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/ScoOV)

just want clarification of this rule. Do you bully the other raid out and have to stay on spawn or do you get to cower away after they leave?

+1 for ms paint skillz

[Nietche]

You left of your own accord. Chest even said as much in this very thread.

[formallydickman]

pathetic and pointless bullying.

[arsenalpow]

You left of your own accord. Chest even said as much in this very thread.

yes, we left because we didn't want to deal with the drama and rules lawyering. A GM wasn't around to babysit so we bailed. We tried working it out with TMO leadership but they had their fingers in their ears screaming "FIFTEEN ON SPAWN POINT" so there was no point.

I'm just going to go ahead and ignore you from this point nietche, just like i have you ignored in game

[Autotune]

Unless Trak's radius was increased 2.5x Jumpy is no where near Trak's aggro radius.

[Nietche]

We tried working it out with TMO leadership

Amazing how long it took for BDA leadership to give this option a whirl after months of asking you and your fellow officers to stop the blind hate toward TMO. I don't buy for a minute that you are interested in "trying" to make diplomacy with TMO, and no one else should either. TMO is the nicest guild on the server. Anyone who has spent time with them in game has to agree. The propaganda needs to stop.

[Greeedy]

STOP THE BLIND HATE.

DONT TAKE TMO'S LOOTZ YO

[Metallikus]

TMO is the nicest guild on the server. Anyone who has spent time with them in game has to agree. The propaganda needs to stop.

Did you get kidnapped and brainwashed? or is this the greatest trolling statement of all time?

[Rasah]

The propaganda needs to stop.

[Zeelot]

I agree with Nietche on this one.

[Tarathiel]

Amazing how long it took for BDA leadership to give this option a whirl after months of asking you and your fellow officers to stop the blind hate toward TMO. I don't buy for a minute that you are interested in "trying" to make diplomacy with TMO, and no one else should either. TMO is the nicest guild on the server. Anyone who has spent time with them in game has to agree. The propaganda needs to stop.

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr206/jasonblanke/fucknietche-1.jpg

stop the blind hate bro =D

[Jarnauga]

waiting on nietche's/alarti's/autotune's/zeelot's spin on this one.

46 BDA in Trak's lair, versus 9 TMO. Please spin me how you deserve Trak more than BDA.

[Autotune]

Lol @ post your fraps/SS's and rules lawyering posted by metallickanass

Again. Jumpy is not even close to Trak's aggro radius.

Tell me again how this is rules lawyering again? Seems to me the BDA and VD's are lawyering the PnP

[Asher]

taken from Rogaen on the raid play nice policy thread:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667

"Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected."

Two raid guilds are in Trakanon's lair within agro range. TMO frapsed and screenshotted their raid force getting to agro range of a Trakanon spawn in Trakanon's lair. Zeelot sent a tell to the BDA raid leader and said they have proof that their raid force was on the spawn point with 15 and that BDa should leave because the mob is theirs. If BDA is forced out with this rules lawyering, why would TMO not have to keep their raid force (or 15) within agro range? As soon as BDA left the zone, TMO backs off everyone from agro range.

What is the point of this rule? Guilds don't want to stand on Trakanon's spawn point for 9 hours. Why should TMO be able to walk up with 15 people and have the opposing raid force removed if they aren't willing to keep their raid force there? This is poor form rules lawyering.

BTW, Amelinda was contacted during this action on irc and refused to comment.

Hey now, you lost the competition fair and square.

They are just better at getting 15 people near the spawn point and then Frapsing it. :o/

Asher

[Nietche]

http://i484.photobucket.com/albums/rr206/jasonblanke/fucknietche-1.jpg

stop the blind hate bro =D

My dislike/borderline hate toward you in particular and many of the VD who joined the ranks of BDA is not blind. Not one bit. I once told Sadad that BDA's mass invite of 150+ VD was an atrocity. I stand by that still. BDA will never be the same.

[Tarathiel]

My dislike/borderline hate toward you in particular and many of the VD who joined the ranks of BDA is not blind. Not one bit. I once told Sadad that BDA's mass invite of 150+ VD was an atrocity. I stand by that still. BDA will never be the same.

bro ive been in bda since apr. 2011 nice try tho, im bda to the core and will never sacrifice my morals for the sake of loot

[Autotune]

Hey now, you lost the competition fair and square.

They are just better at getting 15 people near the spawn point and then Frapsing it. :o/

Asher

Also, nothing in the rules states that a guild must maintain the 15 on spawn if another guild decides to give up and not contend/force the guild to maintain it.

Basically, if you want to force TMO to keep 15, stay there. If you don't want it as bad as they do, you can give up your challenge and in turn they can as well.

It's always been like this, as someone from VD (OP) should know. I imagine the only reason it's brought up is because (as per the normal for VD) something didn't go their way and they get mad/hyped about it and want to rules lawyer a GM.

GJ btw, I am sure this will work wonders for your wanted agreement.

[Nietche]

I apologize then. But I still don't like you (Tarathiel).

[Autotune]

I apologize then. But I still don't like you.

I don't know of anyone in TMO that does like him. Even before anyone from VD joined BDA.

[quido]

I just want you guys to know that whatever happens in Norrath, I hope we can all still be friends <3

[Tarathiel]

I apologize then. But I still don't like you (Tarathiel).

but you dont even know me, why the blind hate?

[Lazortag]

TMO is the nicest guild on the server. Anyone who has spent time with them in game has to agree. ...

I resent this only because Divinity clearly holds that title.

As for the socking of Trak, I hardly see how this is meritocratic or conducive to healthy competition at all. This isn't a TMO or a BDA thing, all the guilds at the top have done it before, I'm just amazed no one sees the futility of it at this point. This is what new players to this server have to look forward to when they reach raid level.

[Alarti0001]

I don't get it, you complain when we out mobilize you, you complain when we out poopsock you. What can we do to please you? just give you everything?

If you are going to start poopsocking at least do it on the spawn.

[Zeelot]

Moral of the story: don't poopsock and there will be no drama.

[Greeedy]

Moral of the story: don't try to take TMO's pixels and there will be no drama

[Valiant]

[QUOTE=arsenalpow;679117]yes, we left because we didn't want to deal with the drama and rules lawyering. A GM wasn't around to babysit so we bailed. We tried working it out with TMO leadership but they had their fingers in their ears screaming "FIFTEEN ON SPAWN POINT" so there was no point.

This

[Autotune]

BDA had 40+ at Jumpy, TMO walked 15 to Trak's spawn point and claimed him.

Moral of the story, if you're going to Poopsock, do it at the right spot.

[Jarnauga]

[Tue Aug 02 18:12:12 2011] Kinsawt says, 'Yea, our fraps does an entire circle, they were OOR'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:12 2011] Zeelot says, '50 range from spawn'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:19 2011] Zeelot says, 'I'm looking at a first person spawn point of view that amelinda sent me'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:21 2011] Zeelot says, 'of traks spawn'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:24 2011] Zeelot says, 'and we were fuckin close'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:28 2011] Kinsawt says, 'You were out of range'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:34 2011] Kinsawt says, 'Maybe close, but out of range'

http://jasowned.com/images/albums/userpics/10001/normal_intredasting.jpg

[Maze513]

Maybe close, but out of range

where is the ole mem for dis?

[Autotune]

[Tue Aug 02 18:12:12 2011] Kinsawt says, 'Yea, our fraps does an entire circle, they were OOR'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:12 2011] Zeelot says, '50 range from spawn'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:19 2011] Zeelot says, 'I'm looking at a first person spawn point of view that amelinda sent me'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:21 2011] Zeelot says, 'of traks spawn'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:24 2011] Zeelot says, 'and we were fuckin close'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:28 2011] Kinsawt says, 'You were out of range'
[Tue Aug 02 18:12:34 2011] Kinsawt says, 'Maybe close, but out of range'

http://jasowned.com/images/albums/userpics/10001/normal_intredasting.jpg

So this dumdum knows how this all goes down. Least one of you dumdums can remember server history.

[Jarnauga]

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9199703.jpg

Thanks Eccezan for the pic

[Barkingturtle]

I think the real of the story is: don't molest your kids, because they will grow up to be molesters, too.

[Shiftin]

Amazing how long it took for BDA leadership to give this option a whirl after months of asking you and your fellow officers to stop the blind hate toward TMO. I don't buy for a minute that you are interested in "trying" to make diplomacy with TMO, and no one else should either. TMO is the nicest guild on the server. Anyone who has spent time with them in game has to agree. The propaganda needs to stop.

Yes, they're definitely not the guild that pioneered:

Laying FD under trak and popping up to claim FTE AND running in folks DA idols when they didn't have the people to kill it, forcing IB to run out of the lair or finish our kill and hand them the loot (multiple times).

Running in and spamming aggro spells / clickies to pull aggro on trak to give him life back through lifetaps (multiple times).

AEing CCd trains when VS was being pulled to zone to break the CC and cause a massive wipe of both IB and half of KC.

Stealing triggered mobs in sky by talking Taken into acting as a buffer, then rushing quest pieces up to sky so people could turn in quests before GMs could re-distribute loot.

Memblurring dragons to reset FTE logs (first faydedar, then talendor).

No wait, all of those things were TMO, and almost all were Zeelot personally, before anyone from any other guild sunk to that level of utter nonsense rules lawyering.

You are being fantastically ignorant of TMO and Zeelot's history, but there are more than a few reasons people hate TMO. IB was never sterling, but the massive leaps forward in douchebaggery could always be traced directly to Zeelot.

Now quick, go back to debating trakanon's aggro range. That doesn't make you look horrible at all. At least you're not breaking your backs to poopsock mobs you don't need to kill anymore like you acted outraged at IB for doing for 1.5 years.

[Asher]

Also, nothing in the rules states that a guild must maintain the 15 on spawn if another guild decides to give up and not contend/force the guild to maintain it.

Basically, if you want to force TMO to keep 15, stay there. If you don't want it as bad as they do, you can give up your challenge and in turn they can as well.

It's always been like this, as someone from VD (OP) should know. I imagine the only reason it's brought up is because (as per the normal for VD) something didn't go their way and they get mad/hyped about it and want to rules lawyer a GM.

GJ btw, I am sure this will work wonders for your wanted agreement.

Gratz more TMO alts on BPs!

Asher

[Autotune]

Now quick, go back to debating trakanon's aggro range. That doesn't make you look horrible at all. At least you're not breaking your backs to poopsock mobs you don't need to kill anymore like you acted outraged at IB for doing for 1.5 years.

Go back to aggroing Trakanon's range? I don't have to, IB did it for me.

[Jarnauga]

• [Tue Aug 02 18:08:57 2011] Zeelot says, 'Amelinda seems to think that 15 on the spawn means physically on the spawn point, as opposed to within aggro range ie. 50 range'

• [Tue Aug 02 18:09:14 2011] Zeelot says, 'having to be physically on the location is not only difficult to know, but rediculous'

• [Tue Aug 02 18:09:25 2011] Zeelot says, 'aggro range, especially short range spell range should be sufficient'

• [Tue Aug 02 18:11:34 2011] Zeelot says, 'from that point on. TMO was on tola, and then trak's spawn area'

• [Tue Aug 02 18:19:14 2011] Zeelot says, 'As for the future, lets avoid any spawn sitting and do trak as a ledge / rush engage only'

• [Tue Aug 02 18:20:30 2011] Zeelot says, 'Yeah. I would love spawn point camping to be taken out'

• [Tue Aug 02 20:49:38 2011] Zeelot says, 'poopsocking for us is a response to you guys camping/binding in lair'


Zeelott confirmed full of shit.

[Greeedy]

gg

[Autotune]

Zeelott confirmed full of shit.

You do know that IB won that right? We were ruled to be just outside of his aggro range (which was closer than tola's spawn btw). We were in between tola and trak lair from what I remember.

Also, TMO would rather rush engage than sock, but having 40 sock just outside Trak's room to kill juggs is not rush engaging, it's plain old poopsocking. You guys tried to play it safe to stay outside of insta engaging trak when he spawned and TMO put 15 on spawn to claim it and deny your sock. Aka, you got outsocked bro.


Moral of the story, if you're going to Poopsock, do it at the right spot.

[Alarti0001]

Zeelott confirmed full of shit.

How do you figure.....?

[Greeedy]

How do you figure.....?

Oh noes not Mastah!

[quido]

Zeelot is a great man and the almighty Lord of this server - HOW DARE YOU BESMIRCH HIS NAME?!

[Fazlazen]

Poopsocking doesn't pay bros.

[Fazlazen]

I just want you guys to know that whatever happens in Norrath, I hope we can all still be friends <3

Hi, BFF

[Asher]

[QUOTE=Autotune;679185]

Also, TMO would rather rush engage than sock, but having 40 sock just outside Trak's room to kill juggs is not rush engaging, it's plain old poopsocking. QUOTE]

Ah so this is the competition you were speaking of. A guilds ability to have people camp out at a mobs spawn point, waiting on call to log them in.

You guys are l33t.

Asher

[Asher]

[QUOTE=Autotune;679185]

Also, TMO would rather rush engage than sock, but having 40 sock just outside Trak's room to kill juggs is not rush engaging, it's plain old poopsocking. QUOTE]

Ah so this is the competition you were speaking of. A guilds ability to have people camp out at a mobs spawn point, waiting on call to log them in.

You guys are l33t.

Asher

I fail at quoting.

Seriously though, that is what EQ is all about. Only the l33t can camp out at a mobs spawn point and then be on call for the spawn.

Asher

[Harazzer]

Amazing how long it took for BDA leadership to give this option a whirl after months of asking you and your fellow officers to stop the blind hate toward TMO. I don't buy for a minute that you are interested in "trying" to make diplomacy with TMO, and no one else should either. TMO is the nicest guild on the server. Anyone who has spent time with them in game has to agree. The propaganda needs to stop.

bahahah.

[Autotune]

[QUOTE=Asher;679221]

I fail at quoting.

Seriously though, that is what EQ is all about. Only the l33t can camp out at a mobs spawn point and then be on call for the spawn.

Asher

So you guys hate poopsocking (but do it) and then complain about the camping out game as opposed to the poopsocking lol.

Do yourself a favor. Get everyone to stop complaining about how guilds use the rules and instead, petition to get the variance changed like i've voiced to Ambrotos.

Get it put into place and watch the rules get changed. Me and Ambrotos have even talked about changing the 15man rule about a week or so ago.

Sad, I don't even play anymore and I fight to fix the server more than you guys who play do.

[Autotune]

Ambrotos = Obama = Change we can believe in.

[Asher]

[QUOTE=Asher;679222]

So you guys hate poopsocking (but do it) and then complain about the camping out game as opposed to the poopsocking lol.

Do yourself a favor. Get everyone to stop complaining about how guilds use the rules and instead, petition to get the variance changed like i've voiced to Ambrotos.

Get it put into place and watch the rules get changed. Me and Ambrotos have even talked about changing the 15man rule about a week or so ago.

Sad, I don't even play anymore and I fight to fix the server more than you guys who play do.

I just like hearing how you and TMO are better than everyone else because you camp your mains at a mobs spawn point and are on call and that no one else should be able to kill these mobs unless they "compete".

Asher

[Autotune]

[QUOTE=Autotune;679225]

I just like hearing how you and TMO are better than everyone else because you camp your mains at a mobs spawn point and are on call and that no one else should be able to kill these mobs unless they "compete".

Asher

It's what TMO had to do, you're telling me you find it odd for TMO to expect another guild to go through what they had to for shots at mobs?

I don't find it hard to believe that one would expect another that wants the same share to go through the same hoops.

[Tasslehofp99]

lolz@ this thread

[Autotune]

AND STOP SPREADING BROKEN QUOTES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Moral of the story: don't poopsock and there will be no drama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZX6Ccfu27U

Don't start nothin, there won't be nothin ~ :3

[Flunklesnarkin]

another moral is autotune can flame anybody they want in server chat and just have the thread moved to RnF ;p

after all they are buddies with ambrotos

[quido]

I enjoy how gomers like to try and peg competition as lair camping. Competition is being the first ready to successfully kill a target. Having people camped out somewhere doesn't guarantee you anything - it is simply sometimes a mean to an end. All things equal, it comes down to coordination and experience.

Don't like pre-camping? Don't do it. There was a period of time that no one did. Maybe instead of pitifully complaining and trying to guilt us into a handout you should come at us with a proposition that de-escalates the mobilization situation and restores competition to what it once was: a slightly less stupid version of what we have now. *spoiler* We are still going to get pretty much everything we want (which will not cease to include Trakanon) and you're still going to be pissed that we're not handing you as much as you would like.

If you want something... take it!

[Autotune]

another moral is autotune can flame anybody they want in server chat and just have the thread moved to RnF ;p

after all they are buddies with ambrotos

Didn't you know dog? I've been granted diplomatic immunity.

[quido]

Lol oh yeah, I just sat there and cried and cried - never ever did I do my part to get what I wanted!

[Autotune]

Lol oh yeah, I just sat there and cried and cried - never ever did I do my part to get what I wanted!

Damn man, at least lie or something.

[Sadad]

hashtag yolo

[quido]

I didn't come to possess Bruce until a few months ago. Bruce belongs to a real-life friend of mine who stopped playing and gave me permission to play him in the meantime. I'm only borrowing the account, really, though he will probably never return.

[Autotune]

Jeremy trained someone in VP on his shaman once i think. Had a video or something.

[Autotune]

Jeremy trained someone in VP on his shaman once i think. Had a video or something.

He also wanted to train more, but just hard on a shaman without suicide.

[quido]

You can see all my pub videos at http://www.youtube.com/JeremyIronsVideos

[Harrison]

My dislike/borderline hate toward you in particular and many of the VD who joined the ranks of BDA is not blind. Not one bit. I once told Sadad that BDA's mass invite of 150+ VD was an atrocity. I stand by that still. BDA will never be the same.

I wonder if this inbred downie remembers that TMO absorbed DA, quite possibly the dirtiest guild on the server. (Second only to itself, as TMO)

[Estrang]

thanks for chiming in bro

[Lostprophets]

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs50/i/2009/331/4/c/Chucky_in_popcorn_lolz_by_1994sonicnaruto.jpg

[Jarnauga]

That day when TMO got raid suspended, you were all socking Dojorn. And you know what ? BDA didn't even try. We let you have the mob. Like any sane person would have done.

But i guess you just can't stand losing as usual, you have to pull the dirty tricks.. grats alt #15372 on whatever bp that dropped.

Oh and TMO telling us not to poopsock.. coming from the guild that socked Droga at kunark launch while others where actually enjoying the new content..

You guys are pathetic.

46 BDA, 9 TMO. You definitely deserve that Trak.

[jpeute]

[QUOTE=

46 BDA, 9 TMO. You definitely deserve that Trak.[/QUOTE]

NOT 9 tmo!15 man!

[Hackscendence]

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4687/daaap.jpg

Rogean confirms. TMO douchebags.

[Alarti0001]

That day when TMO got raid suspended, you were all socking Dojorn. And you know what ? BDA didn't even try. We let you have the mob. Like any sane person would have done.

But i guess you just can't stand losing as usual, you have to pull the dirty tricks.. grats alt #15372 on whatever bp that dropped.

Oh and TMO telling us not to poopsock.. coming from the guild that socked Droga at kunark launch while others where actually enjoying the new content..

You guys are pathetic.

46 BDA, 9 TMO. You definitely deserve that Trak.

We killed Trak with 9? ya we deserve it :P

[apio]

Just leave, and let TMO rot on a dead server. Don´t let them troll you into staying. You´re playing right into the retard´s hands. Only once Blue 99 has turned into a 2nd Red99, they will be happy.

[Cecily]

Just one druid's opinion, but I blame this whole situation on the influx of VD into my once beloved BDA. I was amazed while hearing the griefing (live in vent) that 39 or 40 BDA did on 7/3 to the few TMO that zoned in, and How TMO handled it in vent, I was impressed with how calm and cool and I was kind of shocked how TMO leaders just accepted this atrocious behaviour of having OUR Trakanon contested, it was as if TMO not killing everything was just part the of the raiding experience. Yes I understand that Old Sebelis is a no gm-assistant zone, but I thought it was at least a play zone, not deliberate repeated competition by Teddee and a few other BDA.

[Nimoorhs]

this shit is hilarious, and the reason why instanced gaming is so popular. you guys are all a bunch of pussies. hopefully next time ull do juggs in range of trak so i dont have a 10 page obligatory read of bullshit to find out whats going on. it's painfully obv. you either need to play wow for ez pixels, or step it up and use the rules to your advantage, and/or find someone capable of (effectively) coordinating against a competitive guild.

[Savok]

I just want to ask, did TMO engage with those 15 and win? i only ask because the rules state with sufficient force:

Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

[Dagner]

I wasn't there for this but this is what has happened for the last 2-3 years on this server. When one guild brings 40-50-60 people to a spawn point that two guilds are competiting for, it starts a drama fest. And no one believes that you're "killing juggs" with 40-50-60 people. It's almost like saying you're "exping/aoe'ing outside VS room with 50 people"- People aren't dumb. It's obvious that you're trying to camp the mob that is low in the window. It's basically poopsocking, or at least the next worst thing. That will always, on this server, force the competition to do something rash, because it forces their hand and gives them no shot, unlike having to mobilize or log in and figure shit out, instead of insta-engaging and claiming spawn points.

But this is RnF, so my post probably makes sense to no one here, and I'm probably an asshole.

[Susanbanthony]

That will always, on this server, force the competition to do something rash, because it forces their hand and gives them no shot, unlike having to mobilize or log in and figure shit out, instead of insta-engaging and claiming spawn points.

That's the thing, Dagner. Our killing Juggs in preparation for a late-window Trak spawn does not "force the competition to do something rash." In fact, it should show the competition that this other group of players are prepared to kill this dragon before we were (40 vs 7 as Jarn points out) and they deserve it if they're willing to stay. But let's be prepared if they ever leave.

You don't have to "do something rash" and be dicks by moving 20 ft. in front of a fully assembled raid force that had been clearing Juggs in preparation for a Trakanon spawn for a full five hours before you decided to "do something rash."

Stop being assholes.

Alarti is a dickhead.

[Alarti0001]

That's the thing, Dagner. Our killing Juggs in preparation for a late-window Trak spawn does not "force the competition to do something rash." In fact, it should show the competition that this other group of players are prepared to kill this dragon before we were (40 vs 7 as Jarn points out) and they deserve it if they're willing to stay. But let's be prepared if they ever leave.

You don't have to "do something rash" and be dicks by moving 20 ft. in front of a fully assembled raid force that had been clearing Juggs in preparation for a Trakanon spawn for a full five hours before you decided to "do something rash."

Stop being assholes.

Alarti is a dickhead.

I've barely commented in this thread and nothing offensive.

Stop poopsocking.

[Dagner]

That's the thing, Dagner. Our killing Juggs in preparation for a late-window Trak spawn does not "force the competition to do something rash." In fact, it should show the competition that this other group of players are prepared to kill this dragon before we were (40 vs 7 as Jarn points out) and they deserve it if they're willing to stay. But let's be prepared if they ever leave.



I guess I respectfully disagree. I think what you're doing is just a slippery slope leading to who can put 15 (or pick a number) in a zone (not necessarily on the spawn point) to claim a raid mob.

[fanadyen]

Well im not going to get into this pissing match, but I will give accurate numbers. TMO-24, Enraptured-19 before we decided to move down to trak spawn point after your "non-sock" of 48 player's was killing tola/jugg's.

[Susanbanthony]

I guess I respectfully disagree. I think what you're doing is just a slippery slope leading to who can put 15 (or pick a number) in a zone (not necessarily on the spawn point) to claim a raid mob.

The issue is less who can put 15 in a zone, but more a sense of community and and creating an atmosphere where folks enjoy playing Everquest. It's not as if I enjoy sitting in Trak's lair buffing an entire raid force for 5 hours, but we know that we are less likely to engage first if it's a batphone race. TMO is better than us at that and we know it. So, our option is to keep the raid force there, or "poopsock" if we want to slay a dragon. I enjoy slaying dragons.

You'll never see BDA poopsocking a mob with more a lot of time left in window, but when we know the chances get better and better that it'll spawn, we're going to give ourselves the best chance at killing the target and for the time being, that means get a raid force there.

However, seeing that BDA had a raid force that could kill Trak and being worried that Enraptured wouldn't get their Trak teeth and BP's, TMO decides to "rules lawyer" and be general assholes to the rest of the server. It's a dick move.

Alarti, still a dickhead.

[Rain1]

Hold on! TMO and Enraptured are raiding together?! I demand they merge this instant!

(After all, isn't that what TMO bitched about for months when IB/TR was raiding with VD?)

[touchtonedialing]

Hold on! TMO and Enraptured are raiding together?! I demand they merge this instant!

(After all, isn't that what TMO bitched about for months when IB/TR was raiding with VD?)

To me its straight up a move by a guild thats on the ropes and worried about the future. Same goes with moving onto the spawn point. From what I understand TMO knew they wouldn't get FTE because BDA had more people in proximity than TMO and Enraptured combined.

I feel bad for Enraptured though, handing over their guild to TMO.

Its just a matter of BDA keeping up the pressure to put the final nails into TMO's coffin on this server. The sooner the better for the servers sake.

[Harrison]

Nothing will change for as long as the admins allow guilds such as TMO to behave the way they do on this server. IF TMO folds under the pressure of another guild, it will just repeat itself with the remainders of TMO reforming under a new name and doing the same shit.

Hopefully the rules changes coming up will make TMO all kill themselves ingame and let their corpses rot then we can all masturbate furiously to the idea of a clean server for once.

[Cochonou]

Yes, they're definitely not the guild that pioneered:

Laying FD under trak and popping up to claim FTE AND running in folks DA idols when they didn't have the people to kill it, forcing IB to run out of the lair or finish our kill and hand them the loot (multiple times).

Running in and spamming aggro spells / clickies to pull aggro on trak to give him life back through lifetaps (multiple times).

AEing CCd trains when VS was being pulled to zone to break the CC and cause a massive wipe of both IB and half of KC.

No wait, all of those things were TMO, and almost all were Zeelot personally, before anyone from any other guild sunk to that level of utter nonsense rules lawyering.


Am afraid this post gets lost, so bumping it ! Shiftin is right here. All those facts are true, and I dare any TMO to claim those to be false.

That's the way TMO was "competing" with TR back in the day. Playing FTE rule no matter what. No raid force ? Doesn't matter ! just be the first one on aggro list and have another guild to kill the mob for you.

Alarti, Stealin, Tiggle, you can spin the machine as much as you want ! What TMO did yesterday is a dickmove. Yes, it is allowed by the raid rules, but what part of that don't you understand ?

Raid Rules

These rules are created to encourage fair play and competition between raiding guilds. Be courteous and respectful of the other raiding guilds. The following rules apply in raid situations, and are enforced during any dispute.
The rules of engagement for raid bosses on Project 1999 are First to Engage (FTE) in any situation that is not covered below.

You didn't break any rule and you won't be suspended. Grats on that ! However, great way to show how you want to compete for your mobs ! You guys sure are an example to follow ! Keep acting this way guys ! You sure are working for a better health of the server.

[Maze513]

Step 1: Place 55 lv 55s on a mob low in window
Step 2: Leave when someone else shows up
Step 3: Cry Poopsock
Step 4: Profit

[Lazortag]

When you invoke first-to-15, you preclude other guilds from competing with you. When you camp a large force near a raid mob but not directly on top of its spawn, other guilds can still "compete", it's just that it collapses into who gets FTE. Not taking any sides, just noting a distinction that should be obvious yet has never been mentioned in the last 11 pages.

[touchtonedialing]

When you invoke first-to-15, you preclude other guilds from competing with you.

Thats a very good point. TMO knew they wouldn't win so they didnt want to compete.



TMO!

"We want competition. Unless we arnt going to win, then we dont."

[Harazzer]

They need more trak bps to sell and more trak teeth for the feeder guild duh!

For real though, is standard procedure just to shit up a thread so it immediately goes to RNF, then continue to shit on it until everyone stops reading? When did server boards become somethingawful?

[Asedo]

Gratz TMO on not even making a week before causing a shit fest. Bottom line is BDA came down to Trak and had 40+ to rip through Trak. You guys only had a few and had no way to beat them to Trak. So you pull out a bullshit rule so you don't have to race to it. Bottomline is when someone tries to compete for a mob and you can't win that time you will pull whatever bullshit you can to get it. You can say whatever you want about it being cause of IB, VD, or who ever. Just once someone tries to compete you guys do everything you can to try to push that guild off the server. Oh btw gratz on being biggest dueche bags alive. WTB back the last 2 weeks of guilds having fun with pixels and not fighting over it.

[Alarti0001]

Hold on! TMO and Enraptured are raiding together?! I demand they merge this instant!

(After all, isn't that what TMO bitched about for months when IB/TR was raiding with VD?)

We bitched about VD getting a spot in a Trak rotation as all their gear and VP keys were just feeding IB. We are not merging with enraptured and there is no rotation so your point is moot.

[Alarti0001]

Gratz TMO on not even making a week before causing a shit fest. Bottom line is BDA came down to Trak and had 40+ to rip through Trak. You guys only had a few and had no way to beat them to Trak. So you pull out a bullshit rule so you don't have to race to it. Bottomline is when someone tries to compete for a mob and you can't win that time you will pull whatever bullshit you can to get it. You can say whatever you want about it being cause of IB, VD, or who ever. Just once someone tries to compete you guys do everything you can to try to push that guild off the server. Oh btw gratz on being biggest dueche bags alive. WTB back the last 2 weeks of guilds having fun with pixels and not fighting over it.

Bottom line. We had like 50 TMO on for trak within 1 min of spawn. + like 15 or so Enraptured.

Poopsocking just causes people to idle on a character and not play the game. If there was no poopsocking the 15 on spawn rule wouldn't exist. Stop poopsocking.

[Asedo]

So basically you guys had 50+ camped out and that isn't poopsock'n Trak. Your point is i am guessing no one is allowed to poopsock mobs unless you are TMO. Cause 50+ in under a minute is poopsock'n. You guys are just having issues with that we had 40+ people down there killin juggs and rdy to go if Trak spawned. So Alarti don't yell at other people for trying to get pixels from poopsocking when that is all that TMO does.

[Verenity]

I had really hoped that as far as this competition goes, it wouldn't go to the 15-man rule.
Grats on Trak, see you next time.

[finalgrunt]

I wonder if any of you feels the classic experience during such "fights" over dragons.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I believe Dagner has hit the nail on the head. Does 15 manning a spawn make for a lot of fun? No, but it is entirely logical. The goal is to win the mob, but under the proposed scheme we'd have to have a full raid "killing juggs." Instead of 15 manning, the new standard is jugg killing with a raid. It seems obvious to me that both "standards" lead to different forms of escalation. It just so happens that 15 manning the spawn is the established method, and more easily adjudicated. That said, 15 maning only happens very very late in a window, or in response to another guild's being present in force.

TMO was often careful to not log too many in at once in order to keep TR's itchy batphone finger from slipping. TR did the same thing.


Yes, they're definitely not the guild that pioneered:

Laying FD under trak and popping up to claim FTE AND running in folks DA idols when they didn't have the people to kill it, forcing IB to run out of the lair or finish our kill and hand them the loot (multiple times).

Running in and spamming aggro spells / clickies to pull aggro on trak to give him life back through lifetaps (multiple times).

AEing CCd trains when VS was being pulled to zone to break the CC and cause a massive wipe of both IB and half of KC.

No wait, all of those things were TMO, and almost all were Zeelot personally, before anyone from any other guild sunk to that level of utter nonsense rules lawyering.

Am afraid this post gets lost, so bumping it ! Shiftin is right here. All those facts are true, and I dare any TMO to claim those to be false.

That's the way TMO was "competing" with TR back in the day. Playing FTE rule no matter what. No raid force ? Doesn't matter ! just be the first one on aggro list and have another guild to kill the mob for you.

Alarti, Stealin, Tiggle, you can spin the machine as much as you want ! What TMO did yesterday is a dickmove. Yes, it is allowed by the raid rules, but what part of that don't you understand ?


DA tanking in Trak's lair was an accepted strategy that both guilds employed. I dare say that IB employed it more often that us initially until Zeelot began lying FD in the lair. DA tanking was extremely risky and has lost each guild almost as many traks as it won. What exactly is the issue with it? I personally found that to be a huge rush. Further, TR members routinely bragged about DA tanking on the FoH boards.

Having been there for the instances you claim we were attempting to heal trak, I directly challenge that notion. In all instances I specifcially recall the mass confusion in vent and Zeelot shouting that it's his. But, I could be wrong. Perhaps he's merely a convincing actor.

AEing a CC'd train was wrong. TMO was properly punished for that.

I hope the above has been a sufficient rehash to address the quoted poster's concerns. These scenarios have always been the norm. SHOULD they be? I don't know, but that is what the situation has become. 15 manning a spawn is an established rule and it is entirely logical. To think that it WON'T happen late in a window is silly.

I will point out that TMO has never unilaterally broken interguild agreements. I suspect that if BDA were to negotiate an FTE deal/standard with TMO that it would survive.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I'm sorry TMO had to deal with IB pulling that type of shit but the cycle needs to stop for the health of the server.

[Alarti0001]

I wonder if any of you feels the classic experience during such "fights" over dragons.

I dont feel the classic experience without a 56.k dial up and a Voodoo card

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I dont feel the classic experience without a 56.k dial up and a Voodoo card

lol amen

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

But I do wish the cycle would stop...enough adults we don't need one or two to tell us how to act.

[Lazortag]

Instead of 15 manning, the new standard is jugg killing with a raid. It seems obvious to me that both "standards" lead to different forms of escalation. It just so happens that 15 manning the spawn is the established method, and more easily adjudicated. That said, 15 maning only happens very very late in a window, or in response to another guild's being present in force.

Normally this wouldn't be any of my business, but what if another guild wanted to compete over Trak? Why is it fair that your punishment for BDA's behaviour indirectly punishes other guilds? The way I see it as a third party, what BDA did didn't preclude us from competing, but claiming first-to-15 did. I'm not saying we were planning to contest Trak that night, but it discourages us and other casual guilds from doing so in the future when this kind of behaviour is the norm.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

and btw I had a diamond stealth with 2 monster 3d cards linked...lol and then the voodoo II mmmm

[Harrison]

You guys need to stop arguing amongst yourselves and get the people in charge to do the real work, and ban TMO.

[MooseTX82]

To me its straight up a move by a guild thats on the ropes and worried about the future. Same goes with moving onto the spawn point. From what I understand TMO knew they wouldn't get FTE because BDA had more people in proximity than TMO and Enraptured combined.

I feel bad for Enraptured though, handing over their guild to TMO.

Its just a matter of BDA keeping up the pressure to put the final nails into TMO's coffin on this server. The sooner the better for the servers sake.

You will always have more people.
Don't feel bad for us. We haven't handed shit over to TMO. We just like having fun and they are a good bunch of guys contrary to popular belief.

[baub]

should be forced to do the encounter with whatever u decide to poopsock with.

15 man on his spawn point? NP 15 MAN THE DRAGON LIKE A BOSS

[baub]

should be forced to do the encounter with whatever u decide to poopsock with.

15 man on his spawn point? NP 15 MAN THE DRAGON LIKE A BOSS

then when u kill it with 15 and tyhere are 40+ scrubs looking at you feeling while scrubs u can be all GEE GEE GEE GEE BABY BABY BABY

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U7mPqycQ0tQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Cochonou]

then when u kill it with 15 and tyhere are 40+ scrubs looking at you feeling while scrubs u can be all GEE GEE GEE GEE BABY BABY BABY

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/U7mPqycQ0tQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Geez baub ! Why did you post that video ? I give it 1 day for Karsten to show up !

[Joroz]

The moral of the story here is to force the hand... they are so shit crazy about pixels they will earn more suspensions and eventually get banned/disbanded.

also please define scrubs... and how does that differ from 90% of your guild with all the new untested apps?

[Autotune]

http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4687/daaap.jpg

Rogean confirms. TMO douchebags.

I remember us using this exact same post by Rogean and losing. Haha, so funny how people are now using it against us the same way we used it against others. It lost then, it should lose now.


Also, BDA already admitted they were poopsocking their entire raid force because they couldn't log in. So they positioned like I said they did. Outside of aggro range to give themselves time to engage, but before TMO could log in. You were dicks for poopsocking, you poopsocked like an idiot and lost when TMO put 15 on the spawn. Next time poopsock 40 on traks spawn and discourage the other guild.

Don't pull a fuckin poopsock card with the casual QQ, it's just a poopsock battle you lost. You think TMO wanted to log 40 on so you could rush the spawn point before them, or with them, then there could be a giant bitchfest about who had the first 15 there, GMs would get involved and b/c they have such a hardon for TMO and you guys are the "underdogs" TMO would be forced off. IRC talks have already shown this.

Gratz whoever in TMO made the 15man call. You completely destroyed the other raid force, within the rules and without GM involvement. A+

Moral of the story, if you're going to Poopsock, do it at the right spot.

[Supaskillz]

Normally this wouldn't be any of my business, but what if another guild wanted to compete over Trak? Why is it fair that your punishment for BDA's behaviour indirectly punishes other guilds? The way I see it as a third party, what BDA did didn't preclude us from competing, but claiming first-to-15 did. I'm not saying we were planning to contest Trak that night, but it discourages us and other casual guilds from doing so in the future when this kind of behaviour is the norm.

What did BDA do that deserved to be punished? Is killing juggs/reets and hoping to get lucky on a trak spawn bad behavior now? We don't ask everyone to camp out their main and be sitting at the login screen ready to be on within 1 minute, so when we have alot of people on we kill juggs and reets get spells and a few items and hope trak spawns. We have employed the same strategy on numerous occasions in the past and only once did we get a trak spawn while doing it.

Divinity tried the same strat Monday night but had no luck on trak spawn.

Tmo used to the rules to claim the spawn, I am not that upset about that. It sure beats Darthdeath training us. I would take a lawyer over a criminal everytime. It was even suggested during our jugg run that we should sit on the spawn but we deemed the costs outweighed the benefits b/c it makes the encounter much harder and this rule had not been used in quite some time which we thought would lead to a sort of arm's race scenario. Its been used again so I expect it will be used often now anytime a mob goes late in window.

I will say that I agree with the OP that if you are going to use the rule to have the gms award you the "camp" then you should be required to maintain your camp. Moving the 15 away the second the other guild moves along is pretty lame and for anything else would be considering leaving your camp. The discouragement for using this rule is that it requires a great deal of dedication and effort to get the mob as well as a more difficult encounter.

[Metallikus]

I just want to ask, did TMO engage with those 15 and win? i only ask because the rules state with sufficient force:

Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

No.

BDA had almost 50 players near tola spawn killing juggs and reets waiting on trak to spawn. TMO and enraptured had a force camped at the "safe" rock / poopsock mountain. Then, with nine hours left in trakanon's window, they logged on and moved their 40 man raid force to a point in the lair that was only slightly closer to the spawn point than the BDA raid. After a bunch of douchebaggery by tmo and enraptured, BDA leadership called for our raid to leave the lair since Zeelot convinced them that he had screenshots and fraps to prove they had rights to the mob using the 15 man rule on the basis that he knew the exact spawn spot of trakanon and the exact agro range of trakanon and that BDA raid was "close, but just out of range".

After BDA raid left, TMO and enraptured raid force moved out of the lair back to poop mountain and waited around for hours safely while trakanon spawned. then they cleared juggs out and killed trakanon 10 minutes after spawn.

It's a clear abuse of the 15 man rule and complete douchebag maneuver as the "top" guild on server in these times where "lesser" guilds have set better examples to follow.

[Lazortag]

What did BDA do that deserved to be punished? Is killing juggs/reets and hoping to get lucky on a trak spawn bad behavior now? We don't ask everyone to camp out their main and be sitting at the login screen ready to be on within 1 minute, so when we have alot of people on we kill juggs and reets get spells and a few items and hope trak spawns. We have employed the same strategy on numerous occasions in the past and only once did we get a trak spawn while doing it.

Divinity tried the same strat Monday night but had no luck on trak spawn.

Tmo used to the rules to claim the spawn, I am not that upset about that. It sure beats Darthdeath training us. I would take a lawyer over a criminal everytime. It was even suggested during our jugg run that we should sit on the spawn but we deemed the costs outweighed the benefits b/c it makes the encounter much harder and this rule had not been used in quite some time which we thought would lead to a sort of arm's race scenario. Its been used again so I expect it will be used often now anytime a mob goes late in window.

I will say that I agree with the OP that if you are going to use the rule to have the gms award you the "camp" then you should be required to maintain your camp. Moving the 15 away the second the other guild moves along is pretty lame and for anything else would be considering leaving your camp. The discouragement for using this rule is that it requires a great deal of dedication and effort to get the mob as well as a more difficult encounter.

I didn't say your behaviour should be punished or that it was bad in any way, and I have no opinion on whether it is. My point was that if TMO was going to use first-to-15 as punishment against BDA, it's unfair that other guilds get punished as well.

[Crazyeye]

They have a game for casuals ya know, its called world of warcraped or something. Welcome for the best advice given in this thread so far.

[Autotune]

What did BDA do that deserved to be punished? Is killing juggs/reets and hoping to get lucky on a trak spawn bad behavior now? We don't ask everyone to camp out their main and be sitting at the login screen ready to be on within 1 minute, so when we have alot of people on we kill juggs and reets get spells and a few items and hope trak spawns. We have employed the same strategy on numerous occasions in the past and only once did we get a trak spawn while doing it.

Divinity tried the same strat Monday night but had no luck on trak spawn.

Tmo used to the rules to claim the spawn, I am not that upset about that. It sure beats Darthdeath training us. I would take a lawyer over a criminal everytime. It was even suggested during our jugg run that we should sit on the spawn but we deemed the costs outweighed the benefits b/c it makes the encounter much harder and this rule had not been used in quite some time which we thought would lead to a sort of arm's race scenario. Its been used again so I expect it will be used often now anytime a mob goes late in window.

I will say that I agree with the OP that if you are going to use the rule to have the gms award you the "camp" then you should be required to maintain your camp. Moving the 15 away the second the other guild moves along is pretty lame and for anything else would be considering leaving your camp. The discouragement for using this rule is that it requires a great deal of dedication and effort to get the mob as well as a more difficult encounter.

If a guild invokes it, there has to be a guild to challenge it. If you see a guild claiming 15 with 15 and you want them to stay with 15, you should be required to keep people there as well.

One guild calls 15 with 15, fine, make them engage with 15 if it spawns. However, the other guild that wants them to engage with 15 should be required to enforce the challenge, not walk away and do whatever. It should discourage both sides from poopsocking and leading to the 15 on spawn.

FYI, Poopsocking generally leads to 15 on spawn or FTE GM calls. One route doesn't involve GMs the other does. TMO chose the correct route. The only other option TMO had was to give them Trakanon which is what BDA wanted. So cry more at not getting what you want, I see what your guild is truly upset about, not getting what they want (pixels).

[Metallikus]

They need more trak bps to sell and more trak teeth for the feeder guild duh!

For real though, is standard procedure just to shit up a thread so it immediately goes to RNF, then continue to shit on it until everyone stops reading? When did server boards become somethingawful?

TMO has prided itself with a team of RNF trolls that shit up every thread in server chat that has anything derogatory about their guild in it.

[Relapse1]

sounds like you guys are still fighting over the same shitty content ..congrats

STILL GEttING THEM PIXELS OVER HERE

http://theresistanceguild.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/halo.png

[Harrison]

They have a game for casuals ya know, its called world of warcraped or something. Welcome for the best advice given in this thread so far.

TMO wouldn't clear less than half of the raid content in WoW, guaranteed.

You can't poopsock and zerg down content.

[Nietche]

Gratz TMO on not even making a week before causing a shit fest. Bottom line is BDA came down to Trak and had 40+ to rip through Trak. You guys only had a few and had no way to beat them to Trak. So you pull out a bullshit rule so you don't have to race to it.

The fact that BDA had 40+ is a moot point because they were not on Trak's spawn point. The problem with stretching the rules to include the vicinity around Trak's spawn (such as Tola) is that this kind of precedent can lead to greater radii so that, before long, having 40+ at the zone entrance is conceivably enough to show "raid force" for a target.

Now you'll say something like, "but there's a huge difference between being 20 pixels away from spawn point and 1,000 pixels away from spawn point." You would be correct. However, where do we draw the line? And if we do draw the line at, say, 25 pixels (instead of the ~0 pixel proximity to raid mob), how long do you think it will be before another RnF thread is made regarding a guild using THAT rule to their advantage and to someone else's DISadvantage?

The fact is that people who do not understand the rules and subsequently do not know how to capitalize on said rules given EVERY context are going to whine when they don't "win," and, worse, entreat others to demonize the "winners." If that doesn't work, they cry to GMs about how they never get anything and post inconsequential logs usually taken completely out of context.

[Relapse1]

have fun camping your mains out at raid targets. Eq is more fun while being played

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/4203/pomf.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/pomf.png/)

[finalgrunt]

The fact that BDA had 40+ is a moot point because they were not on Trak's spawn point. The problem with stretching the rules to include the vicinity around Trak's spawn (such as Tola) is that this kind of precedent can lead to greater radii so that, before long, having 40+ at the zone entrance is conceivably enough to show "raid force" for a target.

Now you'll say something like, "but there's a huge difference between being 20 pixels away from spawn point and 1,000 pixels away from spawn point." You would be correct. However, where do we draw the line? And if we do draw the line at, say, 25 pixels (instead of the ~0 pixel proximity to raid mob), how long do you think it will be before another RnF thread is made regarding a guild using THAT rule to their advantage and to someone else's DISadvantage?

The fact is that people who do not understand the rules and subsequently do not know how to capitalize on said rules given EVERY context are going to whine when they don't "win," and, worse, entreat others to demonize the "winners." If that doesn't work, they cry to GMs about how they never get anything and post inconsequential logs usually taken completely out of context.

From what I'm reading, BDA didn't claim Trak theirs even with 40+ people in the vicinity of the target, while TMO did so by using that lame 15 man rules (as they stated themselves in the past) to completly shut out any form of competition.

Next step is what, 15 people teams on each side dancing in and out the aggro range as the other team comes close? Asking 15+ people to afk sit level 1 alts until the target spawns?

Bring global rotation on most targets already, because this is getting ridiculous. P99 is all about reliving classic experience, and you guys are turning this into a complete different (and unenjoyable) game, pretty much ruining that wonderful server and all efforts put into it. I wonder how long it will take for the staff to see it and take measures to change that fact.

[Nietche]

I will say that I agree with the OP that if you are going to use the rule to have the gms award you the "camp" then you should be required to maintain your camp. Moving the 15 away the second the other guild moves along is pretty lame and for anything else would be considering leaving your camp. The discouragement for using this rule is that it requires a great deal of dedication and effort to get the mob as well as a more difficult encounter.

First, we had upwards of 60 people ON spawn, including Enraptured.

Second, when we moved away from the spawn point after BDA abandoned the raid, BDA had the option to return. They did not.

Third, BDA could have just as easily used the 15-man rule to their advantage when they saw all of us logging in on the ledge. They did not.

[Supaskillz]

The fact is that people who do not understand the rules and subsequently do not know how to capitalize on said rules given EVERY context are going to whine when they don't "win," and, worse, entreat others to demonize the "winners." If that doesn't work, they cry to GMs about how they never get anything and post inconsequential logs usually taken completely out of context.

Our raid leader suggested we concede the mob based on the rules. I said that we even considered using that rule our selves but decided it not worth it. Obvious conclusion, BDA is full of halfwits who do not understand the rules.

The difference is we think that the spirit of the law should be upheld and you use the letter of the law. It is what it is, tmo got the kill and loots.

@ autotune: You are correct we prolly should have stayed there and watched tmo's 15 wipe or force them to keep their entire force there. Though now they are also sitting on prot which takes away a big chunk of the motivation for clearing juggs away and people are understandably frustrated by the situation and would rather just get away from it. Not to mention staying there just to make tmo's force stay logged in seems kinda lame.

[Autotune]

From what I'm reading, BDA didn't claim Trak theirs even with 40+ people in the vicinity of the target, while TMO did so by using that lame 15 man rules (as they stated themselves in the past) to completly shut out any form of competition.

Next step is what, 15 people teams on each side dancing in and out the aggro range as the other team comes close? Asking 15+ people to afk sit level 1 alts until the target spawns?

Bring global rotation on most targets already, because this is getting ridiculous. P99 is all about reliving classic experience, and you guys are turning this into a complete different (and unenjoyable) game, pretty much ruining that wonderful server and all efforts put into it. I wonder how long it will take for the staff to see it and take measures to change that fact.

15man rule isn't new
poopsocking isn't new

GMs have known about it for awhile, longer than the last 8months.

the only people surprised at this are the new people.

[Autotune]

Not to mention staying there just to make tmo's force stay logged in seems kinda lame.

but keeping 40 logged in to poopsock and try to force a cockblock on another guild isn't lame?

Tell me how BDA wanted TMO to react to having 40 poopsock just outside Trakanon's aggro radius?

I see.
1) use 15man rule (was used)
2) log 40 in with BDA and play an inching game
3) give BDA all rights on Trak because they are poopsocking and may lead to an FTE dispute (GM involvement)

If you see another, chime in on it.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Interesting proposition. If you invoke the 15 man rule you have to use those 15 to kill it within 15 minutes, I likey!

[Nietche]

From what I'm reading, BDA didn't claim Trak theirs even with 40+ people in the vicinity of the target

This is exactly the point. BDA could not have claimed Trak as theirs given the letter of the law based upon their proximity to Trak spawn. Their failure should not somehow be exaggerated to include a TMO failure. It is what it is. Move on.

[Autotune]

Interesting proposition. If you invoke the 15 man rule you have to use those 15 to kill it within 15 minutes, I likey!

Have discussed with Ambrotos a few weeks ago, brought it up to him again last night due to recent events.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Problem you run into is if they camp 15 at draco, 15 at inny, 15 at , you get the point.

[Rasah]

This is exactly the point. BDA could not have claimed Trak as theirs given the letter of the law based upon their proximity to Trak spawn. Their failure should not somehow be exaggerated to include a TMO failure. It is what it is. Move on.I think most people have moved on. More than half of this thread has been TMO talking down and gloating. We got the clarification for next time. That's good enough for me. There will be another Trak in 3 days, and another one 3 days after that. We will follow the LETTER OF THE LAW next time. I expect the same from your side.

[Lazortag]

What I've been saying in this thread keeps getting ignored so I'm going to assume that's because it was just so brilliant and profound that no one can come up with a response.


Tell me how BDA wanted TMO to react to having 40 poopsock just outside Trakanon's aggro radius?

I see.
1) use 15man rule (was used)
2) log 40 in with BDA and play an inching game
3) give BDA all rights on Trak because they are poopsocking and may lead to an FTE dispute (GM involvement)

Option 1 punishes other guilds too. How is that fair?

[Nietche]

stop falling back on the rules and try being nicer to each other :)

The play nice policy is also a rule. Should we stop falling back on that rule too?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

But I like it still. Means the other guild gets choice of the harder targets really. And if they go for the larger, then you get the smaller, no?

[Autotune]

What I've been saying in this thread keeps getting ignored so I'm going to assume that's because it was just so brilliant and profound that no one can come up with a response.



Option 1 punishes other guilds too. How is that fair?

Why does everything have to be fair? Again, tell me what you think TMO should have done.

I bet it revolves around, just give them the mob. That's what every guild other than TMO wants, free handouts.

Again, if you play a poopsock card, don't get pissed when someone plays it better than you.

Guild A uses shitty tactic that has always been called shitty.
Guild b uses rule against shitty tactic, rule has been considered shitty as well.

Guild B didn't involve GMs.

Looks like that 15man rule did it's job to me. Nothing was lawyered, shit was just straight used.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

The play nice policy is also a rule. Should we stop falling back on that rule too?

I said that forever ago..lol.

What about you can invoke the 15 man rule 5 times a month, or only once every 3 days, or something. Set a limit to it, like you also can invoke it 10 times in a month but forego raiding the next month, or heck i dont know. Spitballing here. I always agreed if play nice is the policy, how about focusing on that. Focus on what you are trying to achieve, rather then the semantic details and legalese.

[Llabak]

The fact that BDA had 40+ is a moot point because they were not on Trak's spawn point. The problem with stretching the rules to include the vicinity around Trak's spawn (such as Tola) is that this kind of precedent can lead to greater radii so that, before long, having 40+ at the zone entrance is conceivably enough to show "raid force" for a target.

Missing the point, Nietche. It's not about "rules" (to me) as it is about not being a dick. If there's another guild there hanging out waiting to engage on spawn, honestly where's the harm in saying "ok, you guys got here first, we'll go do other things"? I was under the impression that you quit BDA because you didn't like the attitude of people that had recently joined us. Do you really believe that you're doing any better with your new guild?

I gated out and went to go play an alt not long after you guys rushed the spawn point and claimed the camp. I don't see how anyone sees that as "competition" or even "fun." Shit, when everyone was sitting on the safe rock (still at a 2:1 BDA to TMO ratio, I'd estimate), I asked in guild whether or not this was the best solution we could come up with. 70 adults sitting on their asses doing nothing for hours? Really?

Maybe for some people that's fun. I pity them.

For what it's worth, I could be epic'ed by now if we hadn't had the rotation while TMO was raid suspended. The Inny that Divinity killed had both the eye on it and the encylopedia, and I was the only necro online when they took him down. I was hoping they would wipe, but they didn't and someone else got the loot. That's cool. They got to have some of the same fun I'd gotten on the last Inny kill, and fun that under the current raid situation they will probably never get again, unless TMO decides to stop farming Inny when Vellious comes out. I don't think I'm a member of the minority, either of the server population as a whole, or or BDA members specifically. What about TMO folks? Do you think that TMO should get every raid encounter they can win the race to? Even Ragefires for level 20-something alts?

Would it really hurt to set up some sort of rotation that makes everyone happy?

TMO
BDA
Open competition - race to the mob
Other server peeps
Open competition - race to the mob
Repeat.

That seems so mind bogglingly simple.

[Tiggles]

Missing the point, Nietche. It's not about "rules" (to me) as it is about not being a dick. If there's another guild there hanging out waiting to engage on spawn, honestly where's the harm in saying "ok, you guys got here first, we'll go do other things"? I was under the impression that you quit BDA because you didn't like the attitude of people that had recently joined us. Do you really believe that you're doing any better with your new guild?

I gated out and went to go play an alt not long after you guys rushed the spawn point and claimed the camp. I don't see how anyone sees that as "competition" or even "fun." Shit, when everyone was sitting on the safe rock (still at a 2:1 BDA to TMO ratio, I'd estimate), I asked in guild whether or not this was the best solution we could come up with. 70 adults sitting on their asses doing nothing for hours? Really?

Maybe for some people that's fun. I pity them.

For what it's worth, I could be epic'ed by now if we hadn't had the rotation while TMO was raid suspended. The Inny that Divinity killed had both the eye on it and the encylopedia, and I was the only necro online when they took him down. I was hoping they would wipe, but they didn't and someone else got the loot. That's cool. They got to have some of the same fun I'd gotten on the last Inny kill, and fun that under the current raid situation they will probably never get again, unless TMO decides to stop farming Inny when Vellious comes out. I don't think I'm a member of the minority, either of the server population as a whole, or or BDA members specifically. What about TMO folks? Do you think that TMO should get every raid encounter they can win the race to? Even Ragefires for level 20-something alts?

Would it really hurt to set up some sort of rotation that makes everyone happy?

TMO
BDA
Open competition - race to the mob
Other server peeps
Open competition - race to the mob
Repeat.

That seems so mind bogglingly simple.

Because VDA has not earned the right to get free mobs. Start taking mobs from tmo for a couple months and sure

[Cochonou]

Because VDA has not earned the right to get free mobs. Start taking mobs from tmo for a couple months and sure

Can a GM suspend TMO from raiding for a couple months so that it happens ?

[Danyelle]

Funny part is...

Most of this community despises anything modern-EQ. With a rather ridiculous seething hatred. Instancing falls under this category. Yet...I'd like to introduce you to reason number 1 as to why instancing was put in-game in the first place. This thread...

Sony didn't want to put up with this. So they took the easy way out, by putting each guild in "their own little corner" like children. What makes you think something that was stupid 13 years ago is intelligent now? Wonder how many more years it's gonna take before guilds on EQ can reach a consensus for still competing with each other, FAIRLY, without bitching endlessly.

[PhuckTMO]

Wah wah wah we were picked on back in the day so we gotta do it to everyone else...wah wah wah. Autotune have you ever actually seen a pussy? I mean besides the one inbetween your legs? Who the fuck trolls forums at 530 in the am and voices opinions about a game they dont play anymore. FUCKING LOSER

TMO is the most retarded guild ive ever had the displeasure of knowing in all my EQ years. Go fuck a girl or something u fucking pathetic, poopsocking, rules lawyering bunch of faggots. I can't Imagine what its like on a friday night to look forward to playing EQ and griefing other guilds instead of...*gasp* going out and living life. Fuckin sorry sack of pathetic nobodys who play the "we got bullied so now we must bully everyone else" card.

According to all of your guys' twisted, and, quite frankly, retarded logic it seems the ONLY rational solution is to "take what you want" by hmmm.....leapfrogging on inny and training 2 days after your suspension....then trying to be clever and using a rule u fucktards were so adamantly against...makes sense. Go get laid or fuck your wife ( if you could manage the impossible feat of finding someone to be with you sorry sacks of worthless flesh...)

As a matter of fact, go fuck yourselves cause its the
only way any of you faggots will get laid.....

PEACE

[Chloroform]

U mad bro?

[Jarnauga]

Because VDA has not earned the right to get free mobs. Start taking mobs from tmo for a couple months and sure

Like Enraptured ..?

[finalgrunt]

but keeping 40 logged in to poopsock and try to force a cockblock on another guild isn't lame?

Tell me how BDA wanted TMO to react to having 40 poopsock just outside Trakanon's aggro radius?

I see.
1) use 15man rule (was used)
2) log 40 in with BDA and play an inching game
3) give BDA all rights on Trak because they are poopsocking and may lead to an FTE dispute (GM involvement)

If you see another, chime in on it.

So you had few solutions, and you picked the least classic / least competitive / worst community decision wise. Your choice, but don't make sound as if BDA forced you to pick this one. I thought after all the competition claims, TMO would go for the 2nd one.

I mean, what do you have to gain yourself to come here and contradict yourself from when you were writing this:

nope, just know people in TR that I actually do like still.


Here, let me give you my deepest regards for you not understanding.


Again, please tell me why it took you days to speak up about having " first 15 on spawn " I don't think any of you hit on this yet.

Did TMO killing trak hurt your "life" that bad. Sad, just sad.


P.S. None really cares you deleted the cleric BP, infact, none cares that you were awarded it (we will get more). What pisses me off is that you guys would resort to childish bullshit and search for loop-holes to stay relevant. Fucking sad you consider yourselves "competition".

I know it's RnF, but I didn't get to read the topic when it was still in the civilized parts of the forums, and there is still matter to be discussed.

[Relapse1]

Pretty nice 2 have guilds here respect first in zone with a force and just leave. Eqmac ftw?

[Gwence]

trak should be agro'ing people if they are in LoS.. anywhere in the lair. Even at the buff ledge.

Tola spot is easily in agro range (assuming it's coded correctly). Obviously should've been BDA's mob.. should suspend tmo for breaking rules again.

Oh ya trak gates too, and takes about 30 minutes to reset if agro'd

oh ya all the vp dragons gate too


p99 = ezmode

[Tanthallas]

Like Enraptured ..?

You mean < The Prostitutes of The Mystical Order>?

[KentalCowtipper]

trak should be agro'ing people if they are in LoS.. anywhere in the lair. Even at the buff ledge.

Tola spot is easily in agro range (assuming it's coded correctly). Obviously should've been BDA's mob.. should suspend tmo for breaking rules again.

Oh ya trak gates too, and takes about 30 minutes to reset if agro'd

oh ya all the vp dragons gate too


p99 = ezmode


This may be the funniest post yet so far.
Repeat after me - I know its hard to understand - Tola's spot is NOT easily within agro range.
That is why BDA was poopsocking there. They wanted to be as close as possible WITHOUT being in agro range.

It is coded correctly - ask one of your TR/IB butt buddies to check out the agro range on eqmac. I did on EZ, THF and PEQ and guess what - Tola's spot it out agro range on all of them.

Its pretty simple. BDA was poopsocking hard with 40 people late into the window. Not a single person actually believes they were there just to "farm juggs for spells and maybe get lucky with trak" - with 9 hours left in the window....riiiight.
Instead of manning up and poopsocking correctly - ON Trak's spawn spot - they decided to play it safe and keep their force outside of agro range.

So TMO moved a force inside of agro range - Within the letter of the law to a T. We broke no rules and as Zeelot told BDA leadership we have fraps and SS's to prove it.

Next time, BDA, if you have more people there first and you want to play the poopsock game - man the fuck up and sit on Trak's spawn. If you're going to try to play the poopsock game do it right. Instead they wanted their cake and to be able to eat it too - they wanted to be able to poopsock but not have to be ready go to the second he engaged (thus the out of agro range sock site).

How many of those 40+ BDA were afk watching TV? Reading a Book? Playing Another Game? All waiting for a batphone to go off so they could run over to their PC - because they were nice and safely parked outside of Trak's agro radius? All it takes is 6 (well for BDA maybe 12) to ensure that Juggs/Tola stays clear. The rest can AFK.

How is that any better than camping people out at a target? Its not. Its worse. Its like camping out at the target - but your character still logged in. Nice little 1-2 min jump on people who are actually logged out at a mob.

Moral of the story - if you want to poopsock do it right. Wanting to be able to poopsock and at the same time have the liberty to not be forced into a instant engage just doesn't cut it.

If you're going to sock you gotta be ready for instant engages. There are many Traks I remember we socked against TR/IB where we had 15-20 and we engaged - while more people were logging on to the batphone that was sent out. Some of those Traks we won. Others we wiped and lost - but thats the price you have to pay when you want to poopsock and are forced to do it correctly.

Sorry you want the world handed to you on a platter but you can't poopsock a mob outside of his agro range. The rules are the rules; if they get changed thats up to the staff. I know as a guild TMO will continue to abide by all server rules and not break a single one. With the hard-on some have for us (like Gwence - OMG BAN THEM.. other people who may be server staff.....)- don'tcha think we'll be frapsing damn near everything from now on? =)

Flippie
Kental

[Nietche]

Funny part is...

Most of this community despises anything modern-EQ. With a rather ridiculous seething hatred. Instancing falls under this category. Yet...I'd like to introduce you to reason number 1 as to why instancing was put in-game in the first place. This thread...

Sony didn't want to put up with this. So they took the easy way out, by putting each guild in "their own little corner" like children. What makes you think something that was stupid 13 years ago is intelligent now? Wonder how many more years it's gonna take before guilds on EQ can reach a consensus for still competing with each other, FAIRLY, without bitching endlessly.

This server was put in place for the classic feel. What you're asking is for this server to be like every other server (i.e., non-classic). If you want forced rotations (i.e., instances), then go to the myriad other servers which are available. If you want to raid pre-kunark, kunark, and velious and still get the "classic feel," EQmac is available.

For this server, the only answer is Velious. Any "solution" other than a Velious beta release is futile in the face of the premier reason this server exists: the "classic feel." More raid targets = a thinning out of any legit raid force, which means you won't need server repops every 2 weeks. The bigger guilds will get the high priority targets, and the other guilds will get the leftovers. Everyone will be happy.

[kenzar]

This may be the funniest post yet so far.
Repeat after me - I know its hard to understand - Tola's spot is NOT easily within agro range.
That is why BDA was poopsocking there. They wanted to be as close as possible WITHOUT being in agro range.

It is coded correctly - ask one of your TR/IB butt buddies to check out the agro range on eqmac. I did on EZ, THF and PEQ and guess what - Tola's spot it out agro range on all of them.

Its pretty simple. BDA was poopsocking hard with 40 people late into the window. Not a single person actually believes they were there just to "farm juggs for spells and maybe get lucky with trak" - with 9 hours left in the window....riiiight.
Instead of manning up and poopsocking correctly - ON Trak's spawn spot - they decided to play it safe and keep their force outside of agro range.

So TMO moved a force inside of agro range - Within the letter of the law to a T. We broke no rules and as Zeelot told BDA leadership we have fraps and SS's to prove it.

Next time, BDA, if you have more people there first and you want to play the poopsock game - man the fuck up and sit on Trak's spawn. If you're going to try to play the poopsock game do it right. Instead they wanted their cake and to be able to eat it too - they wanted to be able to poopsock but not have to be ready go to the second he engaged (thus the out of agro range sock site).

How many of those 40+ BDA were afk watching TV? Reading a Book? Playing Another Game? All waiting for a batphone to go off so they could run over to their PC - because they were nice and safely parked outside of Trak's agro radius? All it takes is 6 (well for BDA maybe 12) to ensure that Juggs/Tola stays clear. The rest can AFK.

How is that any better than camping people out at a target? Its not. Its worse. Its like camping out at the target - but your character still logged in. Nice little 1-2 min jump on people who are actually logged out at a mob.

Moral of the story - if you want to poopsock do it right. Wanting to be able to poopsock and at the same time have the liberty to not be forced into a instant engage just doesn't cut it.

If you're going to sock you gotta be ready for instant engages. There are many Traks I remember we socked against TR/IB where we had 15-20 and we engaged - while more people were logging on to the batphone that was sent out. Some of those Traks we won. Others we wiped and lost - but thats the price you have to pay when you want to poopsock and are forced to do it correctly.

Sorry you want the world handed to you on a platter but you can't poopsock a mob outside of his agro range. The rules are the rules; if they get changed thats up to the staff. I know as a guild TMO will continue to abide by all server rules and not break a single one. With the hard-on some have for us (like Gwence - OMG BAN THEM.. other people who may be server staff.....)- don'tcha think we'll be frapsing damn near everything from now on? =)

Flippie
Kental

Holy shit, tl;dr.
Looks like gwence struck a nerve on this one, although i can only speculate because of the fucking novel presented in rebuttal. Im not reading that shit. Just to back up gwence's claim, tola spawn is totally in agro range of trak on any server that is properly coded. Everywhere w/ LoS to Trak is easily within agro range.

[Fazlazen]

Holy shit, tl;dr.
Looks like gwence struck a nerve on this one, although i can only speculate because of the fucking novel presented in rebuttal. Im not reading that shit. Just to back up gwence's claim, tola spawn is totally in agro range of trak on any server that is properly coded. Everywhere w/ LoS to Trak is easily within agro range.

trak has a 10 000 ft. aggro range guys.

[Shinko]

This was the best read I could find on my break from work. Drink the koolaid

[KentalCowtipper]

You mean < The Prostitutes of The Mystical Order>?

Hrmm the logic here just isnt adding up. We've helped out enraptured a lot and will continue to do so. I met Xero a while back and after talking to him a good while realized hes a cool dude. This was when he was lvl 30 something I believe - back when they just formed the guild. We talked a while. I think I helped him xp some on Flip and bought him a couple things - like a book of obulus - just because he was a new player who seemed cool and *gasp* actually had a competitive spriit.
(I give/buy stuff for random people all the time - if they're cool. Mostly new people. Ask Ambro - during that melee he summoned people to I gave him a couple things to have people roll on I found in my bags. Theres a plenty of people who can attest I give a lot of shit away - what do I need plat for really? New people need gear)

I mentioned to Zeelot what nice people Enraptured were later on - I think this was in April - only to find out he already knew about them and had been hanging out with them. I believe this to be because they're the only only guild I can see on this sever who wants to take the game more seriously and be more dedicated - non just a "family guild" but a guild with players who have aspirations to be genuinely competitive.

The thing with Enraptured is - they don't feel they're entitled to anything. They don't want rotations. They want competition. They're a pretty skilled group of people who are quite dedicated.

Stop and think a second that maybe one day Enraptured will turn out to be competition for TMO instead of allies. Once they're VP geared up they'll be in a much better position to take on Velious mobs than even BDA (no amount of lvl 57s in PoFear/Hate armor is going to be able to take down Sontalaak -sorry guys!).
I'd much rather have Enraptured as possible competition then a bunch of whiny, self entitled people wanting things served up to them on a platter.

So you want rotations? Hell might as well institute instances. It amounts to the same thing...

Flippie
Kental

[kenzar]

Hrmm the logic here just isnt adding up. We've helped out enraptured a lot and will continue to do so. I met Xero a while back and after talking to him a good while realized hes a cool dude. This was when he was lvl 30 something I believe - back when they just formed the guild. We talked a while. I think I helped him xp some on Flip and bought him a couple things - like a book of obulus - just because he was a new player who seemed cool and *gasp* actually had a competitive spriit.
(I give/buy stuff for random people all the time - if they're cool. Mostly new people. Ask Ambro - during that melee he summoned people to I gave him a couple things to have people roll on I found in my bags. Theres a plenty of people who can attest I give a lot of shit away - what do I need plat for really? New people need gear)

I mentioned to Zeelot what nice people Enraptured were later on - I think this was in April - only to find out he already knew about them and had been hanging out with them. I believe this to be because they're the only only guild I can see on this sever who wants to take the game more seriously and be more dedicated - non just a "family guild" but a guild with players who have aspirations to be genuinely competitive.

The thing with Enraptured is - they don't feel they're entitled to anything. They don't want rotations. They want competition. They're a pretty skilled group of people who are quite dedicated.

Stop and think a second that maybe one day Enraptured will turn out to be competition for TMO instead of allies. Once they're VP geared up they'll be in a much better position to take on Velious mobs than even BDA (no amount of lvl 57s in PoFear/Hate armor is going to be able to take down Sontalaak -sorry guys!).
I'd much rather have Enraptured as possible competition then a bunch of whiny, self entitled people wanting things served up to them on a platter.

So you want rotations? Hell might as well institute instances. It amounts to the same thing...

Flippie
Kental

Oh no i didnt pay that prostitute for sex, i gave that prostitute money because i think she is cool, and has a competitive spirit...I swear. She didnt feel entitled to the money, she just likes competition. you're kidding me right?

[Harrison]

I know as a guild TMO will continue to abide by all server rules and not break a single one.

R

O

F

L

This clown can't be serious.

[KentalCowtipper]

I'm sorry you're so bitter Kenzar.. I know loosing over and over and over gets to ya.
Especially hurts more when you had a free ride for the last 2 weeks but now you can clearly see how inferior your guild is.

Last 24 hours TMO has taken out
Trak
VP Dragons
VS
RF
Naggy

Whoever said earlier that TMO is crumbling sure knows their stuff lol.

I'm just curious as to how/why BDA could have had an entire group in LCY in KC (7 total - must have been 1 out of group dpsing) when VS popped compared to our 1 tracker - yet you guys didnt even try to mobilize/engage? Wheres your cajhones? You had a whole group advantage on us off the jump yet didnt even try.

Thats what I mean about competitive spirit. We don't need to beat them - they beat themselves when they tell themselves they can't out mobilize us so they don't even bother to try.

[KentalCowtipper]

R

O

F

L

This clown can't be serious.


"I got nothing. So, I make shit up!"

Yup pretty much sums it up.

[quido]

Everyone knows the 15-man rule is dumb as fuck. Rather than bitching about it being invoked (it has remained a rule despite constant and serious opposition to it), why don't you bitch about the rule existing in the first place? It encourages socking. If encounters descended into anarchy and it became a simple roll of the dice as to who got first aggro, it might actually encourage people to reach a civilized agreement and avoid socking for the most part.

[kenzar]

I'm sorry you're so bitter Kenzar.. I know loosing over and over and over gets to ya.
Especially hurts more when you had a free ride for the last 2 weeks but now you can clearly see how inferior your guild is.

Last 24 hours TMO has taken out
Trak
VP Dragons
VS
RF
Naggy

Whoever said earlier that TMO is crumbling sure knows their stuff lol.

I'm just curious as to how/why BDA could have had an entire group in LCY in KC (7 total - must have been 1 out of group dpsing) when VS popped compared to our 1 tracker - yet you guys didnt even try to mobilize/engage? Wheres your cajhones? You had a whole group advantage on us off the jump yet didnt even try.

Thats what I mean about competitive spirit. We don't need to beat them - they beat themselves when they tell themselves they can't out mobilize us so they don't even bother to try.

How the fuck should I know, Im not in BDA you dumb cunt. I was killing this stuff while you and your ilk were still watching on the sidelines kickin' dirt. Im amazed someone who is supposedly in the top guild can have such a casual gamer perspective, its just sad.

[Relapse1]

This may be the funniest post yet so far.
Repeat after me - I know its hard to understand - Tola's spot is NOT easily within agro range.
That is why BDA was poopsocking there. They wanted to be as close as possible WITHOUT being in agro range.

It is coded correctly - ask one of your TR/IB butt buddies to check out the agro range on eqmac. I did on EZ, THF and PEQ and guess what - Tola's spot it out agro range on all of them.

Its pretty simple. BDA was poopsocking hard with 40 people late into the window. Not a single person actually believes they were there just to "farm juggs for spells and maybe get lucky with trak" - with 9 hours left in the window....riiiight.
Instead of manning up and poopsocking correctly - ON Trak's spawn spot - they decided to play it safe and keep their force outside of agro range.

So TMO moved a force inside of agro range - Within the letter of the law to a T. We broke no rules and as Zeelot told BDA leadership we have fraps and SS's to prove it.

Next time, BDA, if you have more people there first and you want to play the poopsock game - man the fuck up and sit on Trak's spawn. If you're going to try to play the poopsock game do it right. Instead they wanted their cake and to be able to eat it too - they wanted to be able to poopsock but not have to be ready go to the second he engaged (thus the out of agro range sock site).

How many of those 40+ BDA were afk watching TV? Reading a Book? Playing Another Game? All waiting for a batphone to go off so they could run over to their PC - because they were nice and safely parked outside of Trak's agro radius? All it takes is 6 (well for BDA maybe 12) to ensure that Juggs/Tola stays clear. The rest can AFK.

How is that any better than camping people out at a target? Its not. Its worse. Its like camping out at the target - but your character still logged in. Nice little 1-2 min jump on people who are actually logged out at a mob.

Moral of the story - if you want to poopsock do it right. Wanting to be able to poopsock and at the same time have the liberty to not be forced into a instant engage just doesn't cut it.

If you're going to sock you gotta be ready for instant engages. There are many Traks I remember we socked against TR/IB where we had 15-20 and we engaged - while more people were logging on to the batphone that was sent out. Some of those Traks we won. Others we wiped and lost - but thats the price you have to pay when you want to poopsock and are forced to do it correctly.

Sorry you want the world handed to you on a platter but you can't poopsock a mob outside of his agro range. The rules are the rules; if they get changed thats up to the staff. I know as a guild TMO will continue to abide by all server rules and not break a single one. With the hard-on some have for us (like Gwence - OMG BAN THEM.. other people who may be server staff.....)- don'tcha think we'll be frapsing damn near everything from now on? =)

Flippie
Kental


It has been sad noted and confirmed 100 times Eqmac is more classic then P99 if you wanna find out that indeed tola or anywhere trak is LOS is in aggro range all your dumbass has to do is make a lvl 1 i will coh you down near trak and you can see for yourself that P99 = Ezmode....


Bda was in the right TMO should get another 2 weeks off for breaking the rules

[Danyelle]

This server was put in place for the classic feel. What you're asking is for this server to be like every other server (i.e., non-classic). If you want forced rotations (i.e., instances), then go to the myriad other servers which are available. If you want to raid pre-kunark, kunark, and velious and still get the "classic feel," EQmac is available.

For this server, the only answer is Velious. Any "solution" other than a Velious beta release is futile in the face of the premier reason this server exists: the "classic feel." More raid targets = a thinning out of any legit raid force, which means you won't need server repops every 2 weeks. The bigger guilds will get the high priority targets, and the other guilds will get the leftovers. Everyone will be happy.

I never said I wanted forced rotations. In fact I don't. I'd hate them. Funny since I never even mentioned the word "rotation" in that post. I'm assuming you made that statement because I'm in Divinity and thus clearly I'm arguing for the same thing Giegue is right? I also never said I liked instances. or preferred them. I don't like nor hate them. I'm neutral on their existence, they help in some places and ruin the game in others. If it matters, I play on both Live and here, I get both worlds anyway. When I want, where I want. I'm also fully set up to play on EQMac, I simply don't. That makes any "go where such and such happens" point irrelevant. I was simply commenting on the irony of how everyone would despise rotations, yet they engage in the very act that got them put in the game in the first place.

No, all I want is the childish fighting to die down a bit. Not go away completely, though. Drama is a part of human life. It's also practically a feature in Everquest. Was in 99 and still is. However the drama on P99 is blown way out of proportion compared to any guild disputes I ever saw on Live. Someone, somehow, needs to suck it the hell up and reign it in a bit. Step one would probably be not putting words in other peoples' mouths. Happens a lot around here. RnF particularly. Likely how most arguments start, that and applying assumed motives to another guild's actions. That happens a lot too. Against TMO and IB in particular.

[Danyelle]

I was simply commenting on the irony of how everyone would despise instances, yet they engage in the very act that got them put in the game in the first place.

Bleh, stupid no edit. meant "instances" not "rotations" lol. Got me in that state of mind :P

[quido]

Bda was in the right TMO should get another 2 weeks off for breaking the rules

Since when is going and parking your raid force somewhere breaking the rules, num nuts? Relapsee, you're as retarded as ever, but still I love you.

[Llabak]

Because VDA has not earned the right to get free mobs. Start taking mobs from tmo for a couple months and sure

Honest question: Tiggles TMO officer? Is this official TMO policy statement?

[kenzar]

Tiggles is a fat nobody in TMO. He talks a big game, but all he has is a big gut. Once he was a subpar rogue, now he is just subpar.

[touchtonedialing]

Hrmm the logic here just isnt adding up. We've helped out enraptured a lot and will continue to do so. I met Xero a while back and after talking to him a good while realized hes a cool dude. This was when he was lvl 30 something I believe - back when they just formed the guild. We talked a while. I think I helped him xp some on Flip and bought him a couple things - like a book of obulus - just because he was a new player who seemed cool and *gasp* actually had a competitive spriit.
(I give/buy stuff for random people all the time - if they're cool. Mostly new people. Ask Ambro - during that melee he summoned people to I gave him a couple things to have people roll on I found in my bags. Theres a plenty of people who can attest I give a lot of shit away - what do I need plat for really? New people need gear)

I mentioned to Zeelot what nice people Enraptured were later on - I think this was in April - only to find out he already knew about them and had been hanging out with them. I believe this to be because they're the only only guild I can see on this sever who wants to take the game more seriously and be more dedicated - non just a "family guild" but a guild with players who have aspirations to be genuinely competitive.

The thing with Enraptured is - they don't feel they're entitled to anything. They don't want rotations. They want competition. They're a pretty skilled group of people who are quite dedicated.

Stop and think a second that maybe one day Enraptured will turn out to be competition for TMO instead of allies. Once they're VP geared up they'll be in a much better position to take on Velious mobs than even BDA (no amount of lvl 57s in PoFear/Hate armor is going to be able to take down Sontalaak -sorry guys!).
I'd much rather have Enraptured as possible competition then a bunch of whiny, self entitled people wanting things served up to them on a platter.

So you want rotations? Hell might as well institute instances. It amounts to the same thing...

Flippie
Kental

This is possible the dumbest thing posted in this whole thread and thats saying a lot.

TMO likes Enraptured because they will do whatever they tell them to and fill in TMO's failing numbers. Its funny that a guild filled with TMO alts and "ex" officers has the same opinion on everything.

They don't feel entitled to anything because they couldnt do anything on their own and are having loot thrown at them. What has Enraptured ever done without TMO "Helping" (doing it for them)?

Can TMO seriously just drop this Enraptured and TMO wants competition bullshit? You're actions on Trak have shown the only competition you want is competition you either control or will win.

This server will be a better place once TMO is gone.

[Relapse1]

This server will be a better place once TMO is gone.

Let em enjoy over farmed pixels EQmac FTW

[Frieza_Prexus]

You're actions on Trak have shown the only competition you want is competition you either control or will win.

The notion of wanting competition is a bit romanticized, but it means responding and mobilizing to targets. Socking is, unfortunately, a side effect when a mob goes late into its window.

The rank and file members of TMO, myself included, loved the rush of getting a batphone and logging in to kill trak within 5 minutes. It was edge of your seat excitement because of the massive amount of uncertainty. Especially when other mobs, such as VS, were running late in their windows. Mobilization became a game of chess and triage.

Socking is an undesirous side effect of the overall goal.

[Relapse1]

The rank and file members of TMO, myself included, loved the rush of getting a batphone and logging in to kill trak within 5 minutes.

I get more of a rush in 10 minute fights and killing targets with bare min people and clerics all running oom towards the end of the fight. Killing trak in 3 secs at 5am just seems it would get old after years of doing it...i know it did when i was doing it

[KentalCowtipper]

This is possible the dumbest thing posted in this whole thread and thats saying a lot.

TMO likes Enraptured because they will do whatever they tell them to and fill in TMO's failing numbers. Its funny that a guild filled with TMO alts and "ex" officers has the same opinion on everything.

They don't feel entitled to anything because they couldnt do anything on their own and are having loot thrown at them. What has Enraptured ever done without TMO "Helping" (doing it for them)?

Can TMO seriously just drop this Enraptured and TMO wants competition bullshit? You're actions on Trak have shown the only competition you want is competition you either control or will win.

This server will be a better place once TMO is gone.

Wow... you really do have a mental deficiency of some kind don't you?
Fill in TMO's failing numbers? Thank you - actual laughter was produced.
TMO raid numbers since the 2 week suspension was over (Only TMO in the count - its from our DKP logs):

[Thu Jun 28] There are 45 players in Plane of Sky.
Sat Jun 30] There are 20 players in The Plane of Hate - Inny last night just doesnt draw many people.. can't figure out why :P
[Sun Jul 01] There are 38 players in Dreadlands - Gore
[Sun Jul 01] There are 37 players in Plane of Fear - Draco
[Sun Jul 01] There are 33 players in Nagafen's Lair - RF
[Sun Jul 01] There are 38 players in Skyfire Mountains
[Sat Jun 30] There are 23 players in Timorous Deep (so overkill for fay)
[Sun Jul 01] There are 37 players in Old Sebilis
Sun Jul 01] There are 41 players in Veeshan's Peak

Yeah, you really know TMO. We sure are hurting oh so much for numbers.
What a dumbshit.

We're raiding with enraptured because they're nice, cool people with a competitive mentality. They don't whine; they don't want a rotation. They just want to play and compete.

So yeah.. it'll be funny as hell when Velious comes out and Enraptured is so geared up they, on their own, will be able to race to and beat BDA for Kunark mobs for stuff Enraptured might still need.
And of course theres so many velious targets enraptured should be able to grab some of those too when its out.
=)

[kenzar]

I get more of a rush in 10 minute fights and killing targets with bare min people and clerics all running oom towards the end of the fight. Killing trak in 3 secs at 5am just seems it would get old after years of doing it...i know it did when i was doing it

To be fair, it was boring when it was still new. I can't believe TMO still does it admittedly w/o any form of "competition" and claim that is their favorite part. That's fucking sad.

[Relapse1]

Wow... you really do have a mental deficiency of some kind don't you?
Fill in TMO's failing numbers? Thank you - actual laughter was produced.
TMO raid numbers since the 2 week suspension was over (Only TMO in the count - its from our DKP logs):

[Thu Jun 28] There are 45 players in Plane of Sky.
Sat Jun 30] There are 20 players in The Plane of Hate - Inny last night just doesnt draw many people.. can't figure out why :P
[Sun Jul 01] There are 38 players in Dreadlands - Gore
[Sun Jul 01] There are 37 players in Plane of Fear - Draco
[Sun Jul 01] There are 33 players in Nagafen's Lair - RF
[Sun Jul 01] There are 38 players in Skyfire Mountains
[Sat Jun 30] There are 23 players in Timorous Deep (so overkill for fay)
[Sun Jul 01] There are 37 players in Old Sebilis
Sun Jul 01] There are 41 players in Veeshan's Peak

Yeah, you really know TMO. We sure are hurting oh so much for numbers.
What a dumbshit.

We're raiding with enraptured because they're nice, cool people with a competitive mentality. They don't whine; they don't want a rotation. They just want to play and compete.

So yeah.. it'll be funny as hell when Velious comes out and Enraptured is so geared up they, on their own, will be able to race to and beat BDA for Kunark mobs for stuff Enraptured might still need.
And of course theres so many velious targets enraptured should be able to grab some of those too when its out.
=)


Isn't that what IB did with VD ? You guys flamed laughed trolled for many months. Funny you guys are now teamed up with a guild for the exact same reason we were LULZ

[Maze513]

RnF is my fav part. Fo Sho!

[touchtonedialing]

So yeah.. it'll be funny as hell when Velious comes out and Enraptured is so geared up they, on their own, will be able to race to and beat BDA for Kunark mobs for stuff Enraptured might still need.
And of course theres so many velious targets enraptured should be able to grab some of those too when its out.
=)

Enraptured doesn't have a competitive mentality. They wouldn't be following around the loot wagon grabbing whatever falls off if they did. They would be working for it which is funny because thats what you keep telling people they should do.

But I guess giving loot to future TMO members doesnt count.

As far as Velious, (If they even make it to Velious without merging with TMO) They just better hope whichever TMO officer is leading them doesnt have more important dragon to kill with TMO.

[kenzar]

Wow... you really do have a mental deficiency of some kind don't you?
Fill in TMO's failing numbers? Thank you - actual laughter was produced.
TMO raid numbers since the 2 week suspension was over (Only TMO in the count - its from our DKP logs):

[Thu Jun 28] There are 45 players in Plane of Sky.
Sat Jun 30] There are 20 players in The Plane of Hate - Inny last night just doesnt draw many people.. can't figure out why :P
[Sun Jul 01] There are 38 players in Dreadlands - Gore
[Sun Jul 01] There are 37 players in Plane of Fear - Draco
[Sun Jul 01] There are 33 players in Nagafen's Lair - RF
[Sun Jul 01] There are 38 players in Skyfire Mountains
[Sat Jun 30] There are 23 players in Timorous Deep (so overkill for fay)
[Sun Jul 01] There are 37 players in Old Sebilis
Sun Jul 01] There are 41 players in Veeshan's Peak

Yeah, you really know TMO. We sure are hurting oh so much for numbers.
What a dumbshit.

We're raiding with enraptured because they're nice, cool people with a competitive mentality. They don't whine; they don't want a rotation. They just want to play and compete.

So yeah.. it'll be funny as hell when Velious comes out and Enraptured is so geared up they, on their own, will be able to race to and beat BDA for Kunark mobs for stuff Enraptured might still need.
And of course theres so many velious targets enraptured should be able to grab some of those too when its out.
=)

Kental is confirmed a fucking moron. How is this indicative of competition? They dont whine because it's easier to suck TMO's dick and get prostitution status than to actually compete?

So just to summarize, because you right impossibly long winded posts that dont actually say much beyond the fact that you are a total mongoloid who is for some reason allowed to peruse the interwebz unchecked. TMO likes Enraptured because they are competitive without actually competing and they don't whine when handed scraps from TMO, and they don't want a rotation because that would introduce other prostitute guilds into the equation and that would cut in on their action...got it. That makes total sense actually. I cant believe you havent seen it yet.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Hrmm the logic here just isnt adding up. We've helped out enraptured a lot and will continue to do so. I met Xero a while back and after talking to him a good while realized hes a cool dude. This was when he was lvl 30 something I believe - back when they just formed the guild. We talked a while. I think I helped him xp some on Flip and bought him a couple things - like a book of obulus - just because he was a new player who seemed cool and *gasp* actually had a competitive spriit.
(I give/buy stuff for random people all the time - if they're cool. Mostly new people. Ask Ambro - during that melee he summoned people to I gave him a couple things to have people roll on I found in my bags. Theres a plenty of people who can attest I give a lot of shit away - what do I need plat for really? New people need gear)

I mentioned to Zeelot what nice people Enraptured were later on - I think this was in April - only to find out he already knew about them and had been hanging out with them. I believe this to be because they're the only only guild I can see on this sever who wants to take the game more seriously and be more dedicated - non just a "family guild" but a guild with players who have aspirations to be genuinely competitive.

The thing with Enraptured is - they don't feel they're entitled to anything. They don't want rotations. They want competition. They're a pretty skilled group of people who are quite dedicated.

Stop and think a second that maybe one day Enraptured will turn out to be competition for TMO instead of allies. Once they're VP geared up they'll be in a much better position to take on Velious mobs than even BDA (no amount of lvl 57s in PoFear/Hate armor is going to be able to take down Sontalaak -sorry guys!).
I'd much rather have Enraptured as possible competition then a bunch of whiny, self entitled people wanting things served up to them on a platter.

So you want rotations? Hell might as well institute instances. It amounts to the same thing...

Flippie
Kental

Mr. Flippie, if you don't need that platinum, I -do- still need that donals :3

If it wasn't for raiding differences I'm curious who from TMO we would dislike? The forum trolls, assuredly (but don't you ever quit $) but is it genuinely disliking zeelot or disliking his getting of content and the ways he gets content?

[MooseTX82]

Like Enraptured ..?

I'm not sitting here saying we are. Matter of fact I really haven't said shit.

[MooseTX82]

You mean < The Prostitutes of The Mystical Order>?

If this the case Zeelot owes me plat.

[kenzar]

If this the case Zeelot owes me plat.

I would start collecting sooner rather than later.

[KentalCowtipper]

Isn't that what IB did with VD ? You guys flamed laughed trolled for many months. Funny you guys are now teamed up with a guild for the exact same reason we were LULZ

The reason who flamed you so hard was you raided together - yet you insisted both IB and VD get a slot in the Trak rotation. That was bullshit - we both know it. You guys raided together yet they deserved their own spot in the rotation of the most contested mob on the server? Still boggles me that you guys tried to explain that.. because there is no explaining it. Its BS.

Right now there is no rotation in place.

Keep trying to spin shit.

[touchtonedialing]

The reason who flamed you so hard was you raided together - yet you insisted both IB and VD get a slot in the Trak rotation. That was bullshit - we both know it. You guys raided together yet they deserved their own spot in the rotation of the most contested mob on the server? Still boggles me that you guys tried to explain that.. because there is no explaining it. Its BS.

Right now there is no rotation in place.

Keep trying to spin shit.

So finally you agree with me. TMO and Enraptured are the same guild. Even more so when the core of each guild are the same members.

[Shinko]

Wts 60 necro with epic and all keys full gear oops wrong forms.



bda enrup taken divinity acrid and Tmo we are going to work this all out when I get back
I am overseas right now but I'll be back this weekend


Also I'm mad bad sad and fat qq eq is hard


Ps bda people get the fuck out of rnf

To the trolls come back and play

-shinko - I phone

[Alarti0001]

Everyone knows the 15-man rule is dumb as fuck. Rather than bitching about it being invoked (it has remained a rule despite constant and serious opposition to it), why don't you bitch about the rule existing in the first place? It encourages socking. If encounters descended into anarchy and it became a simple roll of the dice as to who got first aggro, it might actually encourage people to reach a civilized agreement and avoid socking for the most part.

this

[Alarti0001]

So finally you agree with me. TMO and Enraptured are the same guild. Even more so when the core of each guild are the same members.

You missed the part about rotation!

[touchtonedialing]

You missed the part about rotation!

Well raiding together means you are one guild apparently. You missed the part with the words.

[Paumad]

ITT people ForumQuesting thinking RnF can change Norrath.

[Autotune]

ITT people ForumQuesting thinking RnF can change Norrath.

I've changed P99 :) I can do it again.

[Autotune]

Also, I'm so happy this thread kept going, but what has been said? All the posts were pretty much TL;DR

[Ravager]

Why does everything have to be fair? Again, tell me what you think TMO should have done.

I bet it revolves around, just give them the mob. That's what every guild other than TMO wants, free handouts.


How is putting 15 on the spawn point to claim the mob not asking for free handouts?

[Danyelle]

Also, I'm so happy this thread kept going, but what has been said? All the posts were pretty much TL;DR

I think some of it was people saying they hate you :( lol

[Autotune]

How is putting 15 on the spawn point to claim the mob not asking for free handouts?

15 man call is a response to poopsocking. One doesn't use the 15man unless there is a poopsock goin down.

Derp. Welcome to P99 raiding, it's been this way for year+.

[baub]

have fun camping your mains out at raid targets. Eq is more fun while being played

http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/4203/pomf.png (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/862/pomf.png/)

sometimes yes, SOMETIMES NO

http://i49.tinypic.com/2drgbb.jpg

[baub]

trak has a 10 000 ft. aggro range guys.

i sense sarcasm, but you're actually kinda right!

if you can see him, he sure as hell sees you

[Autotune]

i sense sarcasm, but you're actually kinda right!

if you can see him, he sure as hell sees you

***** got wholes in his wings, he obv blind as fuck.

[Autotune]

***** got holes in his wings, he obv blind as fuck.

fuck a w

[Gwence]

Since when is going and parking your raid force somewhere breaking the rules, num nuts? Relapsee, you're as retarded as ever, but still I love you.

if bda was at tola in force they were there first in agro radius of trak.. isn't that the rule? So you leapfrogged there force that was there before you .. aka broke the rules.

I vote for 2 month tmo suspension this time.


p99 not having correct coding is no excuse, everyone just spam the bug forum and have them increase trak agro range to how it should be, which in my guess is infinite if you are in line of sight, it's the same for zlandicar in velious.

[Gwence]

This may be the funniest post yet so far.
Repeat after me - I know its hard to understand - Tola's spot is NOT easily within agro range.
That is why BDA was poopsocking there. They wanted to be as close as possible WITHOUT being in agro range.

It is coded correctly - ask one of your TR/IB butt buddies to check out the agro range on eqmac. I did on EZ, THF and PEQ and guess what - Tola's spot it out agro range on all of them.

stupid shit no one read

tola spot is 100% in agro range, or at least it should be if working as intended. I don't need to ask my butt buddies they play on alkabor with me, we've killed trak a good 15 times, and guess what happen the first time.

we rolled in there thinking we was pro cuz we played on p99 and went up to our cool ledge to buff, guess what happened 3 seconds later?

[Gwence]

I went ahead and skipped over the fact you are using EZ, PEQ, and hidden forest as source material, but wow..

it's pretty clear you're dumb as shit.

[Ele]

So finally you agree with me. TMO and Enraptured are the same guild. Even more so when the core of each guild are the same members.

So much incorrect in one post.

[Cecily]

I liked the part about TMO.

[Autotune]

I think some of it was people saying they hate you :( lol

ah, I can live with that :)

[Treats]

we rolled in there thinking we was pro cuz we played on p99 and went up to our cool ledge to buff, guess what happened 3 seconds later?

Lol'd pretty hard this. Good stuff.


I went ahead and skipped over the fact you are using EZ, PEQ, and hidden forest as source material, but wow..

it's pretty clear you're dumb as shit.

Cannot believe 50 posts later someone actually points this out.

Using other EMU's as sources for a correct representation of a classic server?

Really................

[Frieza_Prexus]

As a point of information, the TMO = Enraptured debate is rather moot. TMO protested IB and VD raiding together because it impacted the rotation. The rotation that was a negotiated agreement between all the parties. In effect, what you heard was grumbling which was the result of a poorly negotiated deal on TMO's part.

We treated the two guilds as separate, and that miscalculation cost us. The fighting occurred when it came time to renegotiate the deal. IB & VD, clearly wanted the status quo, and TMO wanted to renegotiate. All of the back and forth was merely an expression of those sentiments.

There's nothing wrong with inter-guild raiding and alliances. Quite the opposite. The arguments (at least, as much as there was a cogent argument buried somewhere in all of that RnF mess) were that it was disingenuous of IB and VD to raid together yet be treated separately as part of the agreement. The IB/VD counter, of course, was that TMO had ratified that distinction in the first place.

[BruizeLee]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp-wWJBlck8

[kenzar]

Lol'd pretty hard this. Good stuff.



Cannot believe 50 posts later someone actually points this out.

Using other EMU's as sources for a correct representation of a classic server?

Really................

Yeah thats just Kental. Without fail everything Kental says is so grossly uneducated or biased we kind of just put it to the side without consideration now. It's sad because as far as i can tell Kental still has no idea. It must be a nice life being dumb as a fucking rock, being sentient brings a whole other level of problems.

[quido]

tola spot is 100% in agro range, or at least it should be if working as intended. I don't need to ask my butt buddies they play on alkabor with me, we've killed trak a good 15 times, and guess what happen the first time.

we rolled in there thinking we was pro cuz we played on p99 and went up to our cool ledge to buff, guess what happened 3 seconds later?

Let's see some evidence that it was as you say in classic! Even then, the claim wouldn't be theirs until the change in aggro radius was effected on the server.

Gwence, you are dumb and should probably stop posting. Even if BDA were spawn socking and we decided to come park it right on top of them, there would be nothing against the rules with this. However if we tried to ninja the mob or the corpse or something, though, this would be breaking the rules. We sits where we wants, beeyotch.

"Ban TMO so we can kill stuff again" is what I'm hearing from Gwence and Relapsee and pals. You guys should write a song on this theme! I bet it would be really good.

[Gwence]

evidence?? like the server that's locked in 02 eq code that's never been modified kind of evidence?


and you're calling other people dumb..?

[quido]

So nothing changed between 2000 and 2002 as far as Kunark content? Ok then.

I don't really care one way or the other what Trakanon's aggro radius is. I'm just pointing out that "it's like this on AK" hasn't generally been sufficient evidence in itself to enact a development change here. You traditionally need some sort of evidence (from like the wayback machine) from the period. I'm sure such information is out there if Trak's aggro radius really was anything within sight.

I think it's funny and pathetic that you guys who don't even play here are calling for a ban over this incident. I'm sure that if we'd actually broken any rules that we'd be pretty sorry right now.

[Relapse1]

I don't really care one way or the other what Trakanon's aggro radius is. I'm just pointing out that "it's like this on AK" hasn't generally been sufficient evidence in itself to enact a development change here.

Like the VP change that was noticed from Eqmac ? or the Plane of Hate change?

[quido]

Maybe AK brought these to attention - clearly many things are the same. But I guarantee you they weren't changed until the devs found sufficient evidence from the era.

[Lazortag]

I never said I wanted forced rotations. In fact I don't. I'd hate them. Funny since I never even mentioned the word "rotation" in that post. I'm assuming you made that statement because I'm in Divinity and thus clearly I'm arguing for the same thing Giegue is right? ...

I haven't read the last few pages but for the record I don't like rotations, except on mobs like ragefire and noble dojorn where not having a rotation is just painful for everyone involved. Obviously I don't speak for everyone in the guild either, some people in divinity like rotations too, most probably prefer it to the retardation that regularly occurs in the raid scene on this server, but I personally like to compete over raid mobs. I just don't think the rules encourage any kind of meaningful competition and I think what happened at Trak shows that.

Jeremy brings up a surprisingly good point also - perhaps it isn't really TMO's fault that they invoked a stupid rule, but the fault of whoever came up with the rule. I mean, if there was a rule that anyone whose name starts with "Gie" and ends with "gue" automatically gets a Bard epic and 10 billion plat, I'd take advantage of that rule all day, but it wouldn't be my fault since I didn't write the rule.

[Autotune]

Like the VP change that was noticed from Eqmac ? or the Plane of Hate change?

VP change was possibly from EQmac (don't remember if anyone mentioned it in the beginning b/c there were a few threads outside of the bug report thread)

Hate needed a change for a long time, it was mentioned long before IB went to EQmac. Sorry.

[Autotune]

"But thems the rules!" is the cry of a 4 year old. Show some moral autonomy you miserable fucks.

Morals. I like the part where you brought up morals.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Morals. I like the part where you brought up morals.

...Sharing raidmobs in EQ is now a moral issue. Also letting the other team win every now in the NFL would be the gentleman's thing, but y'know, competition.

[Danyelle]

I haven't read the last few pages but for the record I don't like rotations, except on mobs like ragefire and noble dojorn where not having a rotation is just painful for everyone involved. Obviously I don't speak for everyone in the guild either, some people in divinity like rotations too, most probably prefer it to the retardation that regularly occurs in the raid scene on this server, but I personally like to compete over raid mobs. I just don't think the rules encourage any kind of meaningful competition and I think what happened at Trak shows that.

Jeremy brings up a surprisingly good point also - perhaps it isn't really TMO's fault that they invoked a stupid rule, but the fault of whoever came up with the rule. I mean, if there was a rule that anyone whose name starts with "Gie" and ends with "gue" automatically gets a Bard epic and 10 billion plat, I'd take advantage of that rule all day, but it wouldn't be my fault since I didn't write the rule.

Well, I like rotations. Just not forced rotations. Cause there's a difference. I find the prospect of forced rotations to be stupid. TMO is 100% correct in saying competition is a part of EQ. GM forced rotations would be like having every team in a major sport take turns making goals, then at the end we tell both teams how they're both winners on the inside, like we're all in 1st grade. It removes any form of competition.

Player made rotations on the other hand... player made rotations must be agreed upon by all guilds involved, only lasts until involved guilds get what they want, etc. Has none of the same problems. Player made rotations are, in fact, a part of competition. Usually used in negotiations between guilds. Particularly if one guild holds a mob or zone the other guilds needs, and the other guild also holds a mob or zone that they need etc. I do believe player made rotations should be considered more often. Not as a constant thing, and certainly not every mob/zone at once. But every once in awhile. Take the RF rotation for example.

Also, you know I love ya bro. Wasn't meant to be a hostile quote lol. Was just pointing out that I hadn't even mentioned rotations, yet he assumed that was my whole point. Presumably because of the tag lol.

At any rate, people need to come to some sort of solution soon. I mean, has IB, BDA, or TMO gotten anything accomplished in-game as a direct result of these little internet arguments? Can any of you really say it's been worth it? Well except Stealin, all he needs is the entertainment value lol. But for everyone else? I think someone of authority from each guild involved needs to step up and say "we need to find some way to come to some sort of civil agreement about this and put this to rest so that the rest of our members, and the server as a whole, can continue to enjoy the game".

I know Nilbog is putting some type of rule change together to try and help. And maybe it will. But... what if it doesn't? You guys can't put all your stock into Classic-EQ-Jesus Nilbog or Rogean swooping in to make all the boo-boos go away, especially if it's something that we know nothing about yet. And besides, if fixing this kind of idiotic fighting were THAT easy, Sony would have done it 13 years ago rather than just make instances and put each of the children in their own little corner and call it done. Plus, most importantly, the devs are having a hard enough time creating Velious or, you know, just answering fucking petitions, they don't need to play babysitter too. We're all mature adults here (I would hope). Try and come up with a reasonable solution on your own. Fighting like this isn't moving towards that, it's moving towards turning P99 into 4chan.

[apio]

do yourselves a favor and join us on EQMac, let the TMO Tards rule over an empty server just like the Nihilum Tards do on Red99

[quido]

"But thems the rules!" is the cry of a 4 year old. Show some moral autonomy you miserable fucks.

Lol this is the same guy that hit me up about joining TMO not two days ago. An insufferable twit from the beginning, he wasn't too pleased when I told him his character probably had too much sketchy history to join our great guild!

[Alarti0001]

Like the VP change that was noticed from Eqmac ? or the Plane of Hate change?

Or the easier combat table change on EQmac a la PoP

[arsenalpow]

[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] Players on EverQuest:
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] ---------------------------
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [56 Beguiler] Drinkdem (Gnome) <Acyrid>

[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Bhak <Enraptured>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Marihuana <Enraptured>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Warlock] Darkdeath (Dark Elf) <Enraptured>

[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Grave Lord] Xadion (Human) <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Cilienya <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Warlock] Slippery (Dark Elf) <The Mystical Order> LFG
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Oracle] Blazinelz (Barbarian) <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Halfelf <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 High Priest] Nizzler (Dwarf) <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Tombola <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Phireburn <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Internode <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Pennand <The Mystical Order>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] AFK [60 Phantasmist] Eleet (Gnome) <The Mystical Order>

[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Assassin] Vertiigo (Half Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Cate <Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [55 Master] Buddhist (Iksar) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Zucantiz <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Supaskillz <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [58 Master] Jizzebel (Human) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Virtuoso] Culprit (Human) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] AFK [59 Revenant] Brutillus (Ogre) <Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Yendor <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Sussy <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [56 Beguiler] Grimar (Gnome) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Merrius <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Assassin] Tarathiel (Dark Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Uprite <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Areyleun <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [56 Troubadour] Capi (Half Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Quaark <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 High Priest] Verenity (High Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Visigoths <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] AFK [ANONYMOUS] Folopak <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Hierophant] Zydarnis (Halfling) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] AFK [58 Defiler] Berty (Skeleton) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [56 Outrider] Celedor (Half Elf) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Cecily <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Jarnauga <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [ANONYMOUS] Guildin <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] [60 Grandmaster] Parliement (Iksar) <Bregan D`Aerth>
[Tue Jul 03 19:08:54 2012] There are 42 players in Old Sebilis.

[arsenalpow]

1 Acyrid
14 TMO/Enraptured
27 BDA

Obviously the ">" and "<" breaks shit. This is just to prove that BDA always had an adequate force to kill trak.

[isoka]

There is nothing to prove. BDA decided to leave Trakanon to TMO, end of story.

[Smyd]

omg, just had a panic attack.
Ran outside to check if the sky was falling and then it wasn't... what a relief.

[achtung]

Someone just posted a bunch of logs from like 5 hrs before Trak was killed~

[Ravager]

15 man call is a response to poopsocking. One doesn't use the 15man unless there is a poopsock goin down.

Derp. Welcome to P99 raiding, it's been this way for year+.

Doesn't answer my question.

[Autotune]

Doesn't answer my question.

I'm sorry. You seems to lack the ability to connect dots.

15man rule can be used for free hand outs.

Did TMO use the 15man rule before or after BDA socked?

After? oh well, I guess they did as a response.

Before? oh well, I guess they wanted the free kill.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA wasn't socking 40 outside aggro range? Nope.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA was socking 40 outside aggro range? Yep.

Why would TMO do such a thing b/c of socking? Well, you see, history on p99 tells us that once you have 2 large raid forces inching closer to a spawn point, it becomes apparent that GMs will get involved (due to FTE). This is where TMO will have trouble. The casuals will bitch, moan, whine and complain about any and everything (as made apparent by this thread alone). So GMs will use their feelings and tell big bad TMO that they should have just let BDA have it (because BDA is so wittle). I talked to Ambrotos in IRC and he mentioned where you guys were and that you had a few within aggro range and his talk/demeanor showed that if it came to FTE battle and GMs getting involved, BDA would have probably got TMO in trouble again.

BDA keeps bitching they might actually get the GMs to force TMO to give them free targets like they want. Anything to shut the whiny baby up I guess. However, TMO can keep playing strictly by the rules and as long as they don't break any, nothing can be said.

Wasn't it BDA telling TMO to play by the rules last week? Now you're pissed they are playing by the rules and not by your moral standard (of giving you free targets).

[Asher]

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA was socking 40 outside aggro range? Yep.


As much as I hate agreeing with IB they are correct, at least on Live servers. ie: EQMac.

If Trak can see you he will agro you. Jumpy should be in agro range. I got agro from Trak along the cliff near the pool on EQMac which is further back from Jumpy.

I don't think I have ever seen Trak on this server but I know that his agro range is huge.

Asher

[Autotune]

As much as I hate agreeing with IB they are correct, at least on Live servers. ie: EQMac.

If Trak can see you he will agro you. Jumpy should be in agro range. I got agro from Trak along the cliff near the pool on EQMac which is further back from Jumpy.

I don't think I have ever seen Trak on this server but I know that his agro range is huge.

Asher

doesn't matter what it should be, only what it is. If the aggro range was larger BDA would have socked outside of that range (they already admitted they socked at tola to be outside aggro range) and TMO would still have put 15 on the spawn.

Want it larger? Go blow up a bug report imo, won't change the outcome where the parties follow those guidelines. It only hurts BDA later which also helps TMO, but I guess you guys are only barking at how the aggro range should be larger to try and force some action.

P.S. Don't jump on a Gwence train, he's the biggest idiot there is (far worse than harrison, he just posts less often)

[Asher]

doesn't matter what it should be, only what it is. If the aggro range was larger BDA would have socked outside of that range (they already admitted they socked at tola to be outside aggro range) and TMO would still have put 15 on the spawn.

Want it larger? Go blow up a bug report imo, won't change the outcome where the parties follow those guidelines. It only hurts BDA later which also helps TMO, but I guess you guys are only barking at how the aggro range should be larger to try and force some action.

P.S. Don't jump on a Gwence train, he's the biggest idiot there is (far worse than harrison, he just posts less often)

I am not jumping on any train. He is correct. I understand your viewpoint and you are free to rules lawyer the hell out of it.

I will go bug it now, but since I cannot fraps it from EQMac they will probably not believe me.

Asher

[Quizy]

OP is angry..

These threads never end lol...... WHAAAAAMMMMMMMMMBULANCE

[Asher]

OP is angry..

These threads never end lol...... WHAAAAAMMMMMMMMMBULANCE

I think many people think the 15 man rule is lame. I would like some clarification too.

Asher

[Ravager]

I'm sorry. You seems to lack the ability to connect dots.

15man rule can be used for free hand outs.

Did TMO use the 15man rule before or after BDA socked?

After? oh well, I guess they did as a response.

Before? oh well, I guess they wanted the free kill.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA wasn't socking 40 outside aggro range? Nope.

Would TMO have used the 15man rule if BDA was socking 40 outside aggro range? Yep.

Why would TMO do such a thing b/c of socking? Well, you see, history on p99 tells us that once you have 2 large raid forces inching closer to a spawn point, it becomes apparent that GMs will get involved (due to FTE). This is where TMO will have trouble. The casuals will bitch, moan, whine and complain about any and everything (as made apparent by this thread alone). So GMs will use their feelings and tell big bad TMO that they should have just let BDA have it (because BDA is so wittle). I talked to Ambrotos in IRC and he mentioned where you guys were and that you had a few within aggro range and his talk/demeanor showed that if it came to FTE battle and GMs getting involved, BDA would have probably got TMO in trouble again.

BDA keeps bitching they might actually get the GMs to force TMO to give them free targets like they want. Anything to shut the whiny baby up I guess. However, TMO can keep playing strictly by the rules and as long as they don't break any, nothing can be said.

Wasn't it BDA telling TMO to play by the rules last week? Now you're pissed they are playing by the rules and not by your moral standard (of giving you free targets).

I'm not pissed about anything. It just seems like a double standard you guys set. I'm not debating whether you used the rule in response to poop socking. My point is, it's still asking for a free hand out, because you essentially rolled in there with the intention of taking the mob without competition. Now if TMO set up shop to do an actual poop sock race instead of claiming 15 man rule, I wouldn't think you guys were looking for the free hand outs that you think the other guilds don't deserve.

Also, it is possible to make your points without resorting to name calling and talking down to people. Food for thought.

[Autotune]

I'm not pissed about anything. It just seems like a double standard you guys set. I'm not debating whether you used the rule in response to poop socking. My point is, it's still asking for a free hand out, because you essentially rolled in there with the intention of taking the mob without competition. Now if TMO set up shop to do an actual poop sock race instead of claiming 15 man rule, I wouldn't think you guys were looking for the free hand outs that you think the other guilds don't deserve.

Also, it is possible to make your points without resorting to name calling and talking down to people. Food for thought.

If TMO had logged on 40, your squad would have put 15+ on spawn. It's apparent. It always happened, it will always happen. You would have bitched either way, only giving you Trakanon would have curbed the bitching, it was destiny.

TMO skipped all the in-game headache, there was no other call that didn't involve GMs or TMO giving you the free ride.

[Autotune]

I am not jumping on any train. He is correct. I understand your viewpoint and you are free to rules lawyer the hell out of it.

I will go bug it now, but since I cannot fraps it from EQMac they will probably not believe me.

Asher

oh im sorry. please link me the rules about aggro ranges. I wasn't aware of the part were we go by what something should be via EQmac.

[Dravingar]

First, we had upwards of 60 people ON spawn, including Enraptured.

Second, when we moved away from the spawn point after BDA abandoned the raid, BDA had the option to return. They did not.

Third, BDA could have just as easily used the 15-man rule to their advantage when they saw all of us logging in on the ledge. They did not.

Late to the party but fucking lol 60 man zerg on trakanon. Way to show that superior skill.

[Ravager]

If TMO had logged on 40, your squad would have put 15+ on spawn. It's apparent. It always happened, it will always happen. You would have bitched either way, only giving you Trakanon would have curbed the bitching, it was destiny.

TMO skipped all the in-game headache, there was no other call that didn't involve GMs or TMO giving you the free ride.

This is nothing but speculation. I've been raiding off and on for the last 7 or 8 months, sometimes with high attendance, sometimes not so high, but this is the first time I've seen a guild use the 15 man rule to claim a mob, let alone Trak. Unfortunately it did set a precedent where it's probably going to be a common thing now unless Nilbog's new rules prove to be a good fix for everyone.

[deneauth]

Ha... Haha... Hahahahahahahahahaha!

[Autotune]

This is nothing but speculation. I've been raiding off and on for the last 7 or 8 months, sometimes with high attendance, sometimes not so high, but this is the first time I've seen a guild use the 15 man rule to claim a mob, let alone Trak. Unfortunately it did set a precedent where it's probably going to be a common thing now unless Nilbog's new rules prove to be a good fix for everyone.

Raiding what for 7 or 8 months? TMO cleaned house the months after IB and VD left. I was still around Dec-Feb, TMO had little to no competition the following few months and gave free mobs for people to kill for 2-3weeks somewhere around then. Looks like it started getting used again when people started socking against each other.

So yeah, It might not have been used because there was no need for it to be used. No one was socking against TMO, who 15mans for no reason?

You new guys are annoying as hell and literally know nothing.

[Gwence]

Or the easier combat table change on EQmac a la PoP

anyone know what he's trying to get at and want to elaborate?