View Full Version : Lord Nagafen & Lady Vox status (post 52 restriction)
Ruenaros
08-10-2011, 05:00 PM
Are these draggies still getting popped within 20 minutes of spawning after the >52 punt got enabled? Who's been taking them down lately?
I'm just a noob hoping to kill them again once I'm a bit higher. Mostly wondering if its worth hanging out sub-53 to try and join a raid or if that's a pipe dream without being in fast-response-level-52-delta-force or whoever is running them currently :P
SupaflyIRL
08-10-2011, 05:05 PM
Most likely alt squads of guilds.
Nagafen and Vox survive up to 2 hours now after spawning.
Naerron
08-10-2011, 05:29 PM
during classic-p99 that was unheard of, as soon as they spawned they got rushed, normally about 2-3 guilds had been waiting for around 10-20+ hours too. But yea, like the other guy said, prob alts of higher guilds who want CoFs and dragon scales and other epic quest items off them still.
Gwence
08-10-2011, 05:34 PM
2 hours? I dont think so.. maybe 15-30 min.
Slathar
08-10-2011, 05:35 PM
the sperglords all have like six level 52s ready for dragon loots. they've dedicated their lives to video games. don't be jealous, be sad and pity their pathetic lives
edit: one just posted above me! he has four level 60s and 9 level 52s. sad.
Gwence
08-10-2011, 05:44 PM
the sperglords all have like six level 52s ready for dragon loots. they've dedicated their lives to video games. don't be jealous, be sad and pity their pathetic lives
edit: one just posted above me! he has four level 60s and 9 level 52s. sad.
sounds like something a fat person would say
Fourthmeal
08-10-2011, 06:17 PM
think outside the bun
2 hours? I dont think so.. maybe 15-30 min.
Notice I said up to 2 hours.
Considering you casually cleared FGs and then wiped to Nagafen earlier this week, yes he lasted maybe more than 15-30 mins.
A few weeks ago Vox was up for well over an hour before a serious attempt was made on her.
We wiped to Nagafen? I think I was there and don't remember that - but I could be wrong (think like a small group of people clearing while the rest of us got there had a few deaths). I could be wrong though.. honestly don't remember that well.
As far as how long they're up, I'd definitely say that there have been times they've been up a couple hours before we could get to them because we were doing other things, but for the most part we still actively kill them in a very timely manner. Honestly, Vox and Naggy are probably two of my favorite raids on P99 atm just because unlike Trak or VS, there is absolutely no poop-socking and sometimes when they spawn at odd hours and we have a poor turn out, the fights can actually be some what tough. I think on our last vox we had under 20 people and it was a blast.
Shiftin
08-10-2011, 06:37 PM
We wiped to Nagafen?
It counts as a wipe to people who really want you to fail when nagafen warps from the lair to drawbridge on a FG pull, a few people die and the rest camp to clear aggro.
SupaflyIRL
08-10-2011, 06:43 PM
Hey pretty sure I solved the thread question with the first reply you can all put a lid on your homosexuality for the time being.
Barkingturtle
08-10-2011, 06:45 PM
Honestly, Vox and Naggy are probably two of my favorite raids on P99 atm just because unlike Trak or VS, there is absolutely no poop-socking and sometimes when they spawn at odd hours and we have a poor turn out, the fights can actually be some what tough.
You know, if you're raiding at "odd hours" because that's when the mob spawned, you're basically poop-socking.
If your guild raids at eight on Tuesdays and Vox is up and you go kill her, you're not.
I thought maybe someone should clear that up for you, since your perspective seems utterly skewed. I mean, someone's tracking the spawns at "odd hours", right? Or do you guys have some way of seeing when mobs pop from outside their native zones?
Anyway, I think killing the same raid mobs for years on end, even going so far as leveling a sect of alts to so, is pathological.
Nedala
08-10-2011, 06:55 PM
We dont kill these dragons to gear our alts, we kill them ON our alts for our mains. And its basicly poopsocking when i raid at 6pm in the evening?
@OP; maybe you can ask our raidleaders if you can be guest for a naggy or vox raid, i think i remember we had guests at naggy, people who just happened to hang out there when he spawned. I cant guarantee anything tho.
Barkingturtle
08-10-2011, 07:05 PM
And its basicly poopsocking when i raid at 6pm in the evening?
Is that what you dudes call odd hours? I honestly don't know what it's like to sleep in till four in the afternoon, so enlighten me.
William_Munny15
08-10-2011, 07:18 PM
Is that what you dudes call odd hours? I honestly don't know what it's like to sleep in till four in the afternoon, so enlighten me.
And that's the game! /thread
Salty
08-10-2011, 07:26 PM
Don't be jelly because you can't stay up past bedtime.
Real men include not sleeping a night or two for good measure.
Nedala
08-10-2011, 07:42 PM
Is that what you dudes call odd hours? I honestly don't know what it's like to sleep in till four in the afternoon, so enlighten me.
Its an odd for americans since im euro. When we raid with a small force like those 20 at vox, its europeans for the biggest part, and few americans who are still awake. But sure, call it "basicly poopsocking" if it makes you feel better .
Barkingturtle
08-10-2011, 07:43 PM
Don't be jelly because you can't stay up past bedtime.
Real men include not sleeping a night or two for good measure.
We have such differing ideas on what constitutes masculinity that I'm afraid the only way to solve this disagreement is to wrestle one another using only our penises. Are you ready? Because I am pumped.
Barkingturtle
08-10-2011, 07:45 PM
Its an odd for americans since im euro. When we raid with a small force like those 20 at vox, its europeans for the biggest part, and few americans who are still awake. But sure, call it "basicly poopsocking" if it makes you feel better .
You know what is "basically poopsocking"?
Leveling alts to farm dragons for your mains.
I don't hold your defensiveness against you, I understand that you have some chemical imbalance which causes these addictive behaviours.
Nedala
08-10-2011, 07:48 PM
The majority, if not all, of those chars were already lvl 50 when kunark came out, they were not leveled to kill naggy and vox. Try harder please.
Doors
08-10-2011, 07:54 PM
Poopsocked 24/7 by the alts of power raiders. Sadly your normal every day player won't be killing either of these 2 targets until Velious hits or they decided to join hard core guilds.
Barkingturtle
08-10-2011, 07:54 PM
The majority, if not all, those chars were already lvl 50 when kunark came out. Try harder please.
Try harder to what, exactly? I'm saying the investment you have is pathological, and you refute it by saying that you had leveled these characters in advance to farm for your mains? Do you understand what I'm saying, even?
Honestly, I'm just surprised the same people have been killing the old dragons for this long. I'd be really bored of it, personally. Because I am normal, in a relative sense.
Skope
08-10-2011, 07:59 PM
oh my goodness... do you know how much i love you, Mr. Turtle? I don't think you do, otherwise you'd have called the cops on me by now.
Nedala
08-10-2011, 08:02 PM
Im saying we leveled these alts cause we felt like playing alts, just like everyone else on this server who plays an alt. Those alts were not created to farm anything, they were created to play the game. Now that vox and naggy have a level restriction of course we use some of our alts to kill them.
Try harder to troll us, or to make us look bad. Why do you have to turn this into an RnF thread? This is server chat so answer the OPs question or start another flame thread in RnF.
Doors
08-10-2011, 08:04 PM
Those alts were not created to farm anything
Judging by that power gamer sig of yours I am calling bullshit on this. You guys go kill raid targets you don't even need loot from just to spite people. Doesn't get much sadder than that really.
Nedala
08-10-2011, 08:10 PM
No we dont, you sound butthurt.
My druid alt was once my main, when i was lvl 50 for a while i started an ench. Cause i always wanted to try enchs, when my ench got into raidlevel i decided to make it my main, since i had a lot more fun playing ench over druid. So the druid became my alt. But clearly when i created that druid i was aware i would use it to kill naggy and vox, and i only leveled it up for that purpose.
Barkingturtle
08-10-2011, 08:13 PM
Im saying we leveled these alts cause we felt like playing alts, just like everyone else on this server who plays an alt. Those alts were not created to farm anything, they were created to play the game. Now that vox and naggy have a level restriction of course we use some of our alts to kill them.
Try harder to troll us, or to make us look bad. Why do you have to turn this into an RnF thread? This is server chat so answer the OPs question or start another flame thread in RnF.
I am not trying to troll, you are just really defensive. I don't dislike TR. I actually think I kind of do dislike TMO, just on principle. You sound pretty deep in denial, honestly. This is typical addictive behaviour.
For instance: in one breath you just told me you farmed dragons on alts for your mains, then you told me the alts were not leveled for the express purpose of farming for the mains but you know what I have to wonder?
Why haven't your alts leveled to 60, then?
You can lie to me, fine, I really don't care, but you shouldn't do it to yourself.
Nedala
08-10-2011, 08:23 PM
I dont have time to level up my alt, and i dont feel like leveling another char to 60 just now, cause it was already a pain the ass to level up one char imo. Thats why she is still lvl 50. Dont you think i would have leveled her to 52 by now if she was created just for vox and naggy? You call me addicted? I dont even play more than a few hours/week currently, if not less. However, believe what you want im telling you very few if any at all, of these alts were leveled up just to farm naggy and vox.
Im defensive cause im sick of reading negative bullshit about my guild all the time, that isnt true. You started with calling us out on "basicly poopsocking" cause we raid at odd hours, when infact we have a lot of europeans who just raid at normal hours which may seem odd for you.
Bullshit in this thread about TR so far:
We wiped to naggy last week
We "basicly poopsock" vox and naggy on our alts
We poopsock vox and naggy on our alts
We farm gear for our alts from raidmobs
We kill raidmobs we dont need any loot from
We leveled the alts we use for vox and naggy for the sole purpose of farming those (btw some of the alts are just chars from old members who quit and gave others their login infos)
Ronas
08-10-2011, 08:24 PM
Are these draggies still getting popped within 20 minutes of spawning after the >52 punt got enabled? Who's been taking them down lately?
I'm just a noob hoping to kill them again once I'm a bit higher. Mostly wondering if its worth hanging out sub-53 to try and join a raid or if that's a pipe dream without being in fast-response-level-52-delta-force or whoever is running them currently :P
Yes they get killed pretty quick, no you not going to be able to do it unless making a guild specifically in that level cap for naggy/vox only. Currently TR only one getting them.
With the current way the server is there isnt really a chance to do a pug raid on it.
You know, if you're raiding at "odd hours" because that's when the mob spawned, you're basically poop-socking.
1 person tracking a mob and then alerting others != poopsocking, at least not how I've come to understand it. Two guilds both having 30+ people sitting on Trak's spawn point is poopsocking. Slight difference.
Nedala is one of TR's forum attack dogs, very passionate about the amount of time she sinks into the server and TR's escapades. Reasoning with her will do little good
Doors
08-10-2011, 08:41 PM
I mean if you think I'm actually stupid enough to believe TR doesn't organize their alts for vox/naggy just to fuck over TMO you're pretty naive. And no I'm not really butthurt over raid mobs I was killing 12 years ago.
Barkingturtle
08-10-2011, 08:47 PM
You started with calling us out on "basicly poopsocking" cause we raid at odd hours, when infact we have a lot of europeans who just raid at normal hours which may seem odd for you.
Dude, it was your guildie that referred to them as "odd hours". I took that to mean "hours when we were not intending to raid." As in, "These hours are odd to me, I should be sleeping but I can't because we might lose this dragon we've killed a thousand times before." I'm sure I misunderstood.
I understand that you guys get a lot of shit hurled at you, and maybe due to that reality you bristle a bit easy, but you need to understand that I can make humorous observations about you because I find your predicament rather laughable.
Kruel
08-10-2011, 08:57 PM
Dude, it was your guildie that referred to them as "odd hours". I took that to mean "hours when we were not intending to raid." As in, "These hours are odd to me, I should be sleeping but I can't because we might lose this dragon we've killed a thousand times before." I'm sure I misunderstood.
I understand that you guys get a lot of shit hurled at you, and maybe due to that reality you bristle a bit easy, but you need to understand that I can make humorous observations about you because I find your predicament rather laughable.
Honestly.. after reading your posts this is what came to mind.
saucer
08-11-2011, 12:59 AM
Lets get 2 facts clear:
1) Out of the 2 most competitive guilds, TR is the only guild who tracks and kills vox and naggy.
2) If TR was merely "leveling alts" like everyone else, they would not have 20-30 alts stuck at lvl 52. Secondly they would not consistently track for and mobilize these alts immediately when vox / naggy spawns.
Now for my opinion:
I do not know whether TR's purpose is to fight vox/naggy just for the sheer enjoyment they get from killing them, or if it is to just make sure no one else on the server gets the kills, but I do know that TR does not need gear from these two mobs.
I have never witnessed a guild compete so hard for every mob that can be labeled a boss mob, but I have to at least give them credit for their determination... when you consider that at least 50% of mobs will spawn between the hours of 3am and 5pm (no matter what timezone) and TR has a 40-50% raid attendance requirement just to get in the door, it is not an easy feat to do what they do while still holding a job and sleeping enough to function at it.
guineapig
08-11-2011, 01:03 AM
the sperglords all have like six level 52s ready for dragon loots. they've dedicated their lives to video games. don't be jealous, be sad and pity their pathetic lives
edit: one just posted above me! he has four level 60s and 9 level 52s. sad.
Knock off the flaming in server chat. I got 2 reports of this already.
Ektar
08-11-2011, 01:13 AM
well ok. having a level 50 alt prekunark, then leaving it under 53 for vox/nag is the obvious option that's been ignored here. Just throwing that out there.
and as the proud adaptor of p99's use of the word poopsock, I can say that 1 person tracking is not poopsocking. Poopsocking was, originally, sticking 15+ people in a zone to reserve first engage rights on a boss target. Now that's kinda shifted to just sitting on a spawn point with a ready-raidforce with the FTE ruleset. Ya that poor soul tracking throughout the night can be your target of ridicule but let's not use false terms ok!
Motec
08-11-2011, 04:15 AM
Lol at thinking naggy/vox take 20-30 level 52 alts. Level 45 crew ftw.
bluejam
08-11-2011, 05:04 AM
Now for my opinion:
I do not know whether TR's purpose is to fight vox/naggy just for the sheer enjoyment they get from killing them, or if it is to just make sure no one else on the server gets the kills, but I do know that TR does not need gear from these two mobs.
You're wrong.
I mean if you think I'm actually stupid enough to believe TR doesn't organize their alts for vox/naggy just to fuck over TMO you're pretty naive. And no I'm not really butthurt over raid mobs I was killing 12 years ago.
Kavruul`s Mystic Pouch
Treasure Hunter`s Satchel
Runed Bolster Belt
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch
Gauntlets of Fiery Might
Cloak of Flames
Bladestopper
White Dragon Scales
Red Dragon Scales
Yea.. these are all very bad items which we usually destroy just to spite TMO.
Treats
08-11-2011, 05:26 AM
You're wrong.
Kavruul`s Mystic Pouch
Treasure Hunter`s Satchel
Runed Bolster Belt
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch
Gauntlets of Fiery Might
Cloak of Flames
Bladestopper
White Dragon Scales
Red Dragon Scales
Yea.. these are all very bad items which we usually destroy just to spite TMO.
Just sayin:
Kavruul`s Mystic Pouch - Same as Tink Bag except for Monk
Treasure Hunter`s Satchel - Same as Tink Bag except for Monk
Runed Bolster Belt - Highly unlikely any Main of TR with a level 50 alt is running around with a FBSS or something
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch - Main
Gauntlets of Fiery Might - Low AC, possibly going on a main for Sta
Cloak of Flames - Main
Bladestopper - Main (Similar Kunark stuff - SBS/Atram Shield)
White Dragon Scales - Also drops off Gorenaire
Red Dragon Scales - Also drops off Talendor
Killing for two items on that list I suppose.
bluejam
08-11-2011, 06:14 AM
Me "just sayin":
Kavruul`s Mystic Pouch - Same as Tink Bag except for Monk - T-Bag = 5k
Treasure Hunter`s Satchel - Same as Tink Bag except for Monk - see above
Runed Bolster Belt - Highly unlikely any Main of TR with a level 50 alt is running around with a FBSS or something - a) new apps coming in b) stats on RBB c) I have no idea how an alt affects a mains dragon haste chances.
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch - Main
Gauntlets of Fiery Might - Low AC, possibly going on a main for Sta - Monks and rogues mainly
Cloak of Flames - Main
Bladestopper - Main (Similar Kunark stuff - SBS/Atram Shield)
White Dragon Scales - Also drops off Talendor - awesome argument since they drop every single time...
Red Dragon Scales - Also drops off Gorenaire - see above (btw you got these mixed up)
edit: oh yea and to sum it up, we kill them because we're a raiding guilld.
edit2: Staff of Forbidden Rites.
Ruenaros
08-11-2011, 09:54 AM
Hey I started a pretty entertaining thread, woo.
Thanks guys, very informative.
TR Spokesman
08-11-2011, 10:31 AM
Are these draggies still getting popped within 20 minutes of spawning after the >52 punt got enabled? Who's been taking them down lately?
I'm just a noob hoping to kill them again once I'm a bit higher. Mostly wondering if its worth hanging out sub-53 to try and join a raid or if that's a pipe dream without being in fast-response-level-52-delta-force or whoever is running them currently :P
TR has an alt army parked for Naggy. That one you can scratch off the list of getting. Either by purchasing accounts, leveling an alt for it, or previously having an alt within level range we have managed to pretty much campsock it within minutes of him spawning. Sometimes we lack actually numbers when he spawns and it takes us awhile but no other guild has the funds and dedication to have alts specifically for this mob now.
Vox on the other hand isn't as high as a priority and we go for it only when nothing else is urgent. This one could be taken but it's highly unlikely due to how far away it is and not many normal guilds have a tracker there.
I'm not saying we have IP exemptions or anything tho. We especially don't keep an alt boxed at login/char select on these occasions either. I have never seen our mains switch to alts in less than 30secs.
(seriously tho, Naggy isn't gonna happen for any normal guild. Vox could be done tho)
Shiftin
08-11-2011, 10:40 AM
Gauntlets of fiery might are excellent PR/DR gear and the best stats on monk/rogue gloves until late velious.
RBB, even if you have better gear, is still best in slot because of its stats.
Red dragon scales are also used for Red dragon BPs, a fantastic raiding resist item.
Gorenaire and Talendor have dropped very few scales for us, and we've killed every gorenaire that has spawned on p99 and about 2/3 talendors.
Fazlazen
08-11-2011, 12:19 PM
Gauntlets of fiery might are excellent PR/DR gear and the best stats on monk/rogue gloves until late velious.
ever heard of celestial fists ?
Lazortag
08-11-2011, 12:53 PM
Just sayin:
Kavruul`s Mystic Pouch - Same as Tink Bag except for Monk
Treasure Hunter`s Satchel - Same as Tink Bag except for Monk
Runed Bolster Belt - Highly unlikely any Main of TR with a level 50 alt is running around with a FBSS or something
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch - Main
Gauntlets of Fiery Might - Low AC, possibly going on a main for Sta
Cloak of Flames - Main
Bladestopper - Main (Similar Kunark stuff - SBS/Atram Shield)
White Dragon Scales - Also drops off Gorenaire
Red Dragon Scales - Also drops off Talendor
Killing for two items on that list I suppose.
Come on, it doesn't matter if there's alternative ways to get these items, guilds are allowed to kill bosses if it makes getting those items easier. It's not like they're killing them just to spite the competition, and if they were, nothing's stopping you from competing with them. I can't believe anyone is honestly criticizing TR for this.
karsten
08-11-2011, 01:01 PM
I was on zithax for the last nagafen raid and i'm not gonna lie i did my damndest to train nagafen on everyone but then at the last minute i felt bad and so i was like "OMG TRAIN I FEEL SO DIRTY" in vent and so like half the raid logged out and so I only got to kill like half of my closest online friends
THE END
signed,
your pal
Karsten
getsome
08-11-2011, 01:22 PM
WTS
Kavruul`s Mystic Pouch - 25k
Treasure Hunter`s Satchel - 35k
Runed Bolster Belt - 275k
Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch -150k
Gauntlets of Fiery Might -95k
Cloak of Flames - 650k
Bladestopper -30k
White Dragon Scales - 75k
Red Dragon Scales - 60k
Gwence
08-11-2011, 01:27 PM
I will slice your nuts off and feed them to ...someone (cant think of anything good here) if you start selling scales!
superapan
08-11-2011, 03:10 PM
What with the sad faces? There is no UN resolution deeming everyone is entitled a shot at Naggy or Vox. Just play the game, and if you lose at least have the dignity to stfu, it's really embarrassing.
bluejam
08-11-2011, 03:30 PM
TR has an alt army parked for Naggy. That one you can scratch off the list of getting. Either by purchasing accounts, leveling an alt for it, or previously having an alt within level range we have managed to pretty much campsock it within minutes of him spawning. Sometimes we lack actually numbers when he spawns and it takes us awhile but no other guild has the funds and dedication to have alts specifically for this mob now.
Vox on the other hand isn't as high as a priority and we go for it only when nothing else is urgent. This one could be taken but it's highly unlikely due to how far away it is and not many normal guilds have a tracker there.
I'm not saying we have IP exemptions or anything tho. We especially don't keep an alt boxed at login/char select on these occasions either. I have never seen our mains switch to alts in less than 30secs.
(seriously tho, Naggy isn't gonna happen for any normal guild. Vox could be done tho)
This is 100% true.
Tiggles
08-11-2011, 03:43 PM
I will slice your nuts off and feed them to ...someone (cant think of anything good here) if you start selling scales!
You have to be 400lbs at least.
This is 100% true.
Gwence
08-11-2011, 03:49 PM
I'm actually 417 lbs, and I live in my mother's basement, eat about 14 hotpockets per day, and rarely bathe.
much respect imo
Marglar
08-11-2011, 04:24 PM
this threads a good example of why pvp servers are the way to go. it's too bad red99 would be the only quality emu box that would last more then a month or two.
azeth
08-11-2011, 04:36 PM
this threads a good example of why pvp servers are the way to go. it's too bad red99 would be the only quality emu box that would last more then a month or two.
interesting that a PVPer has actually identified the only benefit to PvP in an MMO - players handling disputes themselves.
the rest of the < Neckbeard > guild seems to think PvP ought to be included because its balanced/fun.
SupaflyIRL
08-11-2011, 04:39 PM
this threads a good example of why pvp servers are the way to go. it's too bad red99 would be the only quality emu box that would last more then a month or two.
Good idea, implementing guildwar will remove the need for a red server thanks for the tip
Marglar
08-11-2011, 04:42 PM
in order for guild war to be worth a damn, both guilds have to agree to it. still not the same - a third party couldn't enter the fray. I'd like the feature if nothing else, it's an improvement and would be fun.
but yes - pvp in EQ was all about fighting for the raid content and item camps, and it made it damn gratifying when you were the victor - and still fun for those that lost (so long as they weren't corpse camped and were allowed to scoot after losing).
disputes were resolved by power rather then frustration and who can be more patient and waste more time being prepared.
skorge
08-11-2011, 04:47 PM
What guild is this? Just read this somewhere on here....
"See, our central location, you can call it our corporate office, is located in a convenient spot based on our members' residences (after calculating the mean location of our members and coming up with an exact city and state for this location). We dedicate our mind, body, soul, and money to being the best there is.
At our corporate office, which we have invested over $250,000 in (we all quit our IT jobs and used our savings to make this dream happen) we have a staff of twenty dedicated members on-hand at any given time. We eat, shit, and sleep in this building to be for certain that no other guild can slay our dragons. Our dragons are our bitches. We mount screenshots of their corpses up on our walls, and we show them to our girlfriends...wait, we don't have girlfriends, they just slow us down.
Our office design is a collaboration of all of our members mom's basements...so it's pretty awesome. Our main food source is hotpockets. We never drink water, we only drink Mountain Dew, that and coffee. It gives us the energy we need to get through those long nights of doing what other guilds and players could only dream of.
You see people, we are the kings of Project1999..we live the life. Bow before us with praise. We kill the dragons, you don't. We win! Now GTFO."
Raavak
08-11-2011, 04:58 PM
Quoted from a conversation between Zeelot, Kinslawt, and Uthgaard in another post:
[Tue Aug 02 18:32:43 2011] Kinsawt says, 'Dude, we're banking haste and legs'
Truth is the old dragons drop scales that can be used for upcoming epics, though I don't know how many are really needed to be banked...
Mcbard
08-11-2011, 06:28 PM
You have to be 400lbs at least.
domma.jpg
eadric
08-11-2011, 06:56 PM
I'm all for authenticity of the "oldschool" experience, but we all know SOE made a lot of mistakes, more with each expansion they released. In my opinion one of the first big mistakes they made was the "52" cap for Naggy and Vox. They should have increased the dragon's levels to 63 when the level cap became 60. The banishing thing is ridiculous and lame and always was. Of course I'm sure TR would still kill them immediately from the sound of things. Oh well.
Mcbard
08-11-2011, 09:04 PM
I'm all for authenticity of the "oldschool" experience, but we all know SOE made a lot of mistakes, more with each expansion they released. In my opinion one of the first big mistakes they made was the "52" cap for Naggy and Vox. They should have increased the dragon's levels to 63 when the level cap became 60. The banishing thing is ridiculous and lame and always was. Of course I'm sure TR would still kill them immediately from the sound of things. Oh well.
I disagree because at least on my server there was not an alt crew that farmed the dragons and it gave a lot of people newer to the game a chance to get some kills in on them and farm them. My first guild actually kept everyone under level 53 so that we could farm them and I thought it was AWESOME.
Harrison
08-11-2011, 09:10 PM
I led my first raid on Vox when I was still a kid. If there was no level restriction LoS, the shitbag cheating/hacking/exploiting Taiwanese and Chinese guilds, and SoS would have been killing them the moment they spawned like everything else at the time and I would have never had that first taste of raiding.
Seaweedpimp
08-11-2011, 11:32 PM
I remember all those tiawan guilds on the nameless. they were ruthless indeed.
All geared like LoS but man they had numbers.
add294
08-12-2011, 12:09 AM
I remember all those tiawan guilds on the nameless. they were ruthless indeed.
All geared like LoS but man they had numbers.
Kylin Eyes. God I hated them.
It's comical that TR defends their farming because they need items, yet you see those items for sale in EC. Sure certain items are still needed but defending the need for all of them and then just selling them for profit? Get real
Harrison
08-12-2011, 04:55 AM
Kylin Eyes. God I hated them.
War Dragon >_<
Lost Danger Soldier
Oh my fucking God, I hated them all. (I met one cool Dwarf Paladin from WD, once. He sticks out in my memory because it was such a shock to see one non douchebag in an Asian guild on that server.)
It isn't racism, just ask anyone who experienced that server from classic up to PoP and beyond. They were just that big of douchebags.
Lazortag
08-12-2011, 05:18 AM
It's comical that TR defends their farming because they need items, yet you see those items for sale in EC. Sure certain items are still needed but defending the need for all of them and then just selling them for profit? Get real
If this is true then fine, instead of needing the items they "need" the money. That's a legitimate reason. Also, having fun killing bosses is a legitimate reason. I've seen people contrive some stupid reasons to hate on TR but damn, this takes the cake.
aerah
08-12-2011, 08:45 AM
realistically speaking, at endgame killing something just so someone else can't is also completely legitimate. it's the only real way to hinder the competition from gaining on you. it is especially effective if there's a key process that you stop.
on Karana we did it all the time with the mid-to-end game content from Velious through PoP, but the asian players and their "crash the zone to respawn it" mentality finally had them catching us.
not sure what all the hate is about. merely playing doesn't mean you're entitled to seeing all the content. that requires "work" and "dedication."
haters be hatin'
Tunarian
08-12-2011, 09:25 AM
It's shit like this that ran off new players and still does. It's shit like this that caused the overuse of instances. We all loved raiding back in the day but only a select few were able to get into the elite guilds. This caused developers to create instances, this caused us to hate these games, and ultimately caused us to play on this server again.
And now here we are, doing the same fucking shit we always did. Why are people not learning? Let some of the lower tier guilds raid so the "sandbox" loving playerbase will grow and it might be feasible for a devloper to target us as a market again. Big picture people.
Think outside the fuckin' bun.
CHusk2
08-12-2011, 09:57 AM
^
That, my friend, deserves a beer.
HallygukRZ
08-12-2011, 09:58 AM
You are right Tunarian. Unfortunately, that's the human nature.
Video games are nothing but a projection of reality, with a spice of anonymity.
choklo
08-12-2011, 10:43 AM
It's shit like this that ran off new players and still does. It's shit like this that caused the overuse of instances. We all loved raiding back in the day but only a select few were able to get into the elite guilds. This caused developers to create instances, this caused us to hate these games, and ultimately caused us to play on this server again.
And now here we are, doing the same fucking shit we always did. Why are people not learning? Let some of the lower tier guilds raid so the "sandbox" loving playerbase will grow and it might be feasible for a devloper to target us as a market again. Big picture people.
Think outside the fuckin' bun.
This is likely the top reason people will lose interest in this server. The end game is unavailable to everyone not in TMO or TR.
Chokan
08-12-2011, 10:51 AM
This is likely the top reason people will lose interest in this server. The end game is unavailable to everyone not in TMO or TR.
I'm leaning toward agreeing with this. Being a new player myself, I'm looking forward to eventually doing my epic quest when they put them in. How will this be possible if no one can kill dragons but a select few?
Bruman
08-12-2011, 10:52 AM
This is likely the top reason people will lose interest in this server. The end game is unavailable to everyone not in TMO or TR.
That's just flat-out not true. In this game, yes - right now, if you're interested in certain raid targets, yes, you need to join one of those two guilds. But what guild is at the top will change. It'll be in flux. Someone starting a new toon right now has no concern of this at all.
And even then, when you do start being interested in raiding - there's still lots of raiding to do that is open to many many guilds.
Everyone is acting like not being able to kill...what? 4-6 certain NPCs? anytime you want means the game is worthless. There's still 60 levels of content, that's going to take you many many days/weeks of /played to reach, several other raid zones and raid targets, and guess what! If you gotta get your dragon on after all that time, both TMO and TR are still taking applicants. You can join them and go raid with them.
If you think you've seen everything else by now, you're level 60, nothing else interests you - then take a break until Hole / VP / epics come out, and when you're bored then, take a break until SoV comes out.
I have fun raiding with my guild. It doesn't matter what our target is. We'll get to dragons when it doesn't require my to toss my daughter in a closest. And ya know what, even if TR had every single dragon on lock-down for the life of the server? I still wouldn't care. I have fun doing other things in game. I'd like to kill some dragons, but it's not the end of the world folks. It's a large game. Go make friends and have fun together.
Shiftin
08-12-2011, 11:11 AM
^^ That. The "OMG there's nothing to do on this server because of TR/TMO" is nonsense. Chardok royals, PoH/PoF, Phinny, Juggs/Reets... hell, the entire plane of sky is a series of incresingly difficult raid targets and perfect for teaching people raid mechanics in EQ. Considering how much of the devs focus is on epics, we can't be that far out from those quests which have a ton of small-medium triggered raids to do with your guildmates.
If we ever have simulated patch days again, you will have 3-4 non TR/TMO guilds competing for the classic targets TR/TMO save till the end.
aerah
08-12-2011, 11:51 AM
I'm leaning toward agreeing with this. Being a new player myself, I'm looking forward to eventually doing my epic quest when they put them in. How will this be possible if no one can kill dragons but a select few?
They will complete their epics the same way people did in live, by purchasing the right to loot items or those very items from people who no longer need them or putting together groups/alliances that can kill the targets. Just fyi - epics were supposed to be so people could do harder encounters, not so they could camp 4rooms/crypt/karnors/wtf ever else casuals do.
Shiftin has the right of it in the end. Although there isn't a ton of mid-tier raiding available in Classic/Kunark, come velious there's significantly more. PoG/ToV East and West/Kael/SkyShrine/Siren's Grotto/West Wastes/Velks Lab all have raid-friendly targets that are not bleeding edge.
You argue that it's the "all or nothing" mentality that ruined MMOs with instancing, I argue that it's the whining and sense of entitlement that drove the devs to instancing that ruined them. No one likes competition, they think because (in live) they paid their 10 bucks a month they deserved to get anything and everything handed to them. "I at least deserve the chance..." - yeah you have the chance. Put forth the effort that it takes to find like minded people and build a cohesive unit. Or join a guild that already is that, and pay your dues when you first join.
The only part of classic that people like this bring with them is the whining that it's not fair they can't kill Nagafen, they can't see Trakanon, they have to live vicariously through screenshots to see VP.
Slathar
08-12-2011, 11:56 AM
.... Put forth the effort that it takes...
i was with you till i read this. the only effort EQ takes is an enormous and borderline-psychotic amount of time. thats it. that is the secret of raiding in a non-instanced mmorpg. the people who debate this fact are always the ones who probably are addicted to everquest (not trolling) to validate and defend their position.
Bubbles
08-12-2011, 11:59 AM
Split the goddamn server already.
Bonus points if you put TMO/TR on their own private server, since there's 0 joy in EQ in having something if you can't lord it over others.
Slathar
08-12-2011, 12:02 PM
Split the goddamn server already.
Bonus points if you put TMO/TR on their own private server, since there's 0 joy in EQ in having something if you can't lord it over others.
thats a great idea, they'd quit within weeks
aerah
08-12-2011, 12:06 PM
i was with you till i read this. the only effort EQ takes is an enormous and borderline-psychotic amount of time. thats it. that is the secret of raiding in a non-instanced mmorpg. the people who debate this fact are always the ones who probably are addicted to everquest (not trolling) to validate and defend their position.
I agree only if you're talking about being bleed_edge_end_game_raider_08. This requires the effort of button mashing and drinking Bawls all night. Yeah, I went there. You've outlined what it takes to poop in your sock and call yourself by that namesake. There are other levels of raiding.
If you're in a relatively small guild and you want to put together a chardok royals raid, are you telling me it takes no effort to communicate with other small guilds to find interested parties, make groups, designate healing assignments, split loot, coordinate movement and execute a non-zerg strategy? Voice chat makes it a bit easier (and harder) but I still feel comfortable calling that effort.
Bubbles
08-12-2011, 12:11 PM
The only part of classic that people like this bring with them is the whining that it's not fair they can't kill Nagafen, they can't see Trakanon, they have to live vicariously through screenshots to see VP.
And the 5% of each live server that derived joy from strictly endgame encounters and scratching to get to the top makes up 9/10ths of the population here. Casual people went on to lead lives and didn't come scampering back to relive glory days via EQ.
As for your original statement, the fact that you're shocked that people migrating to the server are stunned that not only is everything killed moments after spawning, people take pride in the sockfests, the alt-armies, and the 24/7 vent hangouts and twitter-watches that people are falling overthemselves to partake in to relive their 'classic' experience.
Feel free to call them delusional if you want, just make sure to lay down the board and hit the steam press, because it's high time for some ironing.
Enough typing Bubbles. I was told you're playing a Ranger. Why are you so delusional?!
Harrison
08-12-2011, 12:23 PM
I agree only if you're talking about being bleed_edge_end_game_raider_08. This requires the effort of button mashing and drinking Bawls all night. Yeah, I went there. You've outlined what it takes to poop in your sock and call yourself by that namesake. There are other levels of raiding.
If you're in a relatively small guild and you want to put together a chardok royals raid, are you telling me it takes no effort to communicate with other small guilds to find interested parties, make groups, designate healing assignments, split loot, coordinate movement and execute a non-zerg strategy? Voice chat makes it a bit easier (and harder) but I still feel comfortable calling that effort.
You're responding, with logic and reasoning, to someone devoid of it.
I agree with your sentiment that raiding isn't as easy as people like him (noobs) think it is.
Bubbles
08-12-2011, 12:30 PM
Enough typing Bubbles. I was told you're playing a Ranger. Why are you so delusional?!
And that ranger just lapped your wizard in our race to bring team worthless to planar level!
feste
08-12-2011, 12:34 PM
I agree with your sentiment that raiding isn't as easy as people like him (noobs) think it is.
unless you are leading the raid or part of it its easy as shit. come on time > dont get lost > bring your food and components > hit the same 2-4 buttons and move when someone tells you too.
am i missing something?
Slathar
08-12-2011, 12:49 PM
unless you are leading the raid or part of it its easy as shit. come on time > dont get lost > bring your food and components > hit the same 2-4 buttons and move when someone tells you too.
am i missing something?
see, for some people who have a very limited intelligence these things are difficult and the sense of 'accomplishment' they get for sitting 12 hours pressing buttons gives them is enormous.
YendorLootmonkey
08-12-2011, 01:01 PM
Enough typing Bubbles. I was told you're playing a Ranger. Why are you so delusional?!
He has lots of time to type while waiting for a rez
YendorLootmonkey
08-12-2011, 01:10 PM
Considering how much of the devs focus is on epics, we can't be that far out from those quests which have a ton of small-medium triggered raids to do with your guildmates.
Oh, you're absolutely right. We are so looking forward to walking around with our 90%-completed epics until every TR/TMO main and alt completes theirs so their poopsock crews stop spamming Target Nearest NPC and Range Attack keys with 72 hours left in window on the boss mob that drops the final piece.
At least rogues will be okay.
"Hail, Stanos"
"Congratulations! Here is your Ragebringer!"
Seaweedpimp
08-12-2011, 01:18 PM
Oh, you're absolutely right. We are so looking forward to walking around with our 90%-completed epics until every TR/TMO main and alt completes theirs so their poopsock crews stop spamming Target Nearest NPC and Range Attack keys with 72 hours left in window on the boss mob that drops the final piece.
At least rogues will be okay.
"Hail, Stanos"
"Congratulations! Here is your Ragebringer!"
Then you know what you must do.
YendorLootmonkey
08-12-2011, 01:24 PM
Then you know what you must do.
Browse internet porn?
Tunarian
08-12-2011, 02:15 PM
Create a rogue.
Spray paint your rusty longsword "epic" blue. I hear they sell it at wal-mart.
Ektar
08-12-2011, 02:22 PM
I never understood the jollies received from trolling. But all I wanna do right now is troll the fuck out of this thread.
I think I've grown as a person.
Macken
08-12-2011, 03:35 PM
OP mentioned 20 minutes.
If you don't down a mob within 10 minutes of it popping on a real server such as a pvp one, you probably aren't going to get it.
When any of you have feel you have mastered this beginner server, you can join the pro server that's being made by Rogean.
Harrison
08-12-2011, 04:20 PM
When any of you have feel you have mastered this beginner server, you can join the pro server that's being made by Rogean.
You haven't mastered any server, nevermind this "beginner server."
Stop trolling server chat with your pvp bullshit. You have a section.
Marglar
08-12-2011, 04:31 PM
the sense of entitlement is equally entertaining to the time spent / required to kill raid mobs here. lol. just play the game and have fun - if you want raid targets, you know what you must do. not really worth the time to me - there's plenty of other content to enjoy.
things will loosen up a little bit in velious. factions will help, to a point, but the amount of raid targets will give the lesser guilds a crack at some of the less desired ones.
it's how it's always been in EQ - you should have been used to this in live, it's no different here. I'll reiterate that this is what made pvp servers so lively - if you are frustrated and you want a crack at a raid target, at least you have the option of attempting to fight for it : )
Macken
08-12-2011, 05:05 PM
You haven't mastered any server, nevermind this "beginner server."
Stop trolling server chat with your pvp bullshit. You have a section.
Post needs less concern over macken and more concern over your moobies.
Macken
08-12-2011, 05:06 PM
at least you have the option of attempting to fight for it : )
choklo
08-12-2011, 05:32 PM
^^ That. The "OMG there's nothing to do on this server because of TR/TMO" is nonsense. Chardok royals, PoH/PoF, Phinny, Juggs/Reets... hell, the entire plane of sky is a series of incresingly difficult raid targets and perfect for teaching people raid mechanics in EQ. Considering how much of the devs focus is on epics, we can't be that far out from those quests which have a ton of small-medium triggered raids to do with your guildmates.
If we ever have simulated patch days again, you will have 3-4 non TR/TMO guilds competing for the classic targets TR/TMO save till the end.
I stated "end game content" in my post. But in the spirit of your response, I'd suggest TMO and TR take a few months break from Trak, Naggy, Gore, Vox, etc. and enjoy the content you mentioned. I promise you the dragons will still die in a timely manner without you.
Macken
08-12-2011, 05:33 PM
I stated "end game content" in my post. But in the spirit of your response, I'd suggest TMO and TR take a few months break from Trak, Naggy, Gore, Vox, etc. and enjoy the content you mentioned. I promise you the dragons will still die in a timely manner without you.
If you are a man you don't have to beg the top guilds.
just sayin'
choklo
08-12-2011, 05:44 PM
If you are a man you don't have to beg the top guilds.
just sayin'
Poopsocking is not my idea of manhood.
Marglar
08-12-2011, 05:46 PM
I love the random ass tags that get added to these threads lols
Tasslehofp99
08-12-2011, 05:53 PM
I was in Permafrost 2 days back to back messing around, and vox was up both day (~48 hours)
choklo
08-12-2011, 06:00 PM
Vox appears to be the one dragon low on the TMO/TR hit list. I think it's the difficult location combined with lower end(for dragons) loot.
Macken
08-12-2011, 06:28 PM
Poopsocking is not my idea of manhood.
exactly
This is likely the top reason people will lose interest in this server. The end game is unavailable to everyone not in TMO or TR.
You guys act like TMO and TR have been the top guilds since the server inception. New guilds (EXAMPLE: TMO) pop up all the time to challenge the status quo.
Anyone who has played on this server long enough knows that guilds rise and fall. While IB probably held the crown the longest, even we almost fell apart late last fall when the guild splintered. I mean, we had trouble fielding more than 20 man raids for well over a month. While it is generally two or three guilds competing, and a fair amount of the players have remained the same, there is always room for new guilds to enter the fray.
When I started here it was Transcendence and IB on top. Then for a few months there were actually 7 guilds that competed for mobs (IB, Trans, GC, Divinity, Remedy, In Virtue, and Fish Bait). While it is true that IB got the vast majority of mobs during this time, to say that there was no competitive raiding is a huge fallacy. Some of my fondest moments on this server were doing small group (less than 12 people) planar raids while I was in IV competing against guilds like GC, Fish Bait and Trans.
I mean, we've had at least 3 different top guilds on this server since I've played here (IB -> DA -> TR) and one could make a strong argument to include TMO in that list, at least for a short period (in fact, this is still on going).
You make it sound like there is like one group of players that has dominated this server since it's inception, and that simply isn't true. Of the current membership of TR, I'd bet less than 25% ever wore an IB tag. I mean that is a very rough number, but to say that 75% of the current top guild are new players from the previous top guild just illustrates that this server does have a dynamic raiding scene and is not blocked by barriers of entry to every player on the server.
If you want to play 6 hours a week and expect to get dragons, kick rocks. However, both TR and TMO are made up of a number of players that really don't play that much. I mean, at 60, unless you're really into farming, you pretty much only log on when there is something to kill or you want to play an alt. So we can field 35 man raids (with an 80-90 player member base), that is less than 50% turn out. Yea, we have people with 70 and 80% attendance rates, but the vast majority of the guild hovers around the 40% mark - which isn't really that much considering the time even casual players put into this game.
I'm sorry the raid scene doesn't cater to the casual players, but it never has.. not once in the 12 year history of this game. I don't think it is going to change anytime soon.
Skope
08-12-2011, 08:34 PM
MUST...HAVE...THEM ALL...
ALL OF THEM WILL BE MINE!!!
TR Spokesman
08-12-2011, 08:45 PM
You guys act like TMO and TR have been the top guilds since the server inception. New guilds (EXAMPLE: TMO) pop up all the time to challenge the status quo.
Anyone who has played on this server long enough knows that guilds rise and fall. While IB probably held the crown the longest, even we almost fell apart late last fall when the guild splintered. I mean, we had trouble fielding more than 20 man raids for well over a month. While it is generally two or three guilds competing, and a fair amount of the players have remained the same, there is always room for new guilds to enter the fray.
When I started here it was Transcendence and IB on top. Then for a few months there were actually 7 guilds that competed for mobs (IB, Trans, GC, Divinity, Remedy, In Virtue, and Fish Bait). While it is true that IB got the vast majority of mobs during this time, to say that there was no competitive raiding is a huge fallacy. Some of my fondest moments on this server were doing small group (less than 12 people) planar raids while I was in IV competing against guilds like GC, Fish Bait and Trans.
I mean, we've had at least 3 different top guilds on this server since I've played here (IB -> DA -> TR) and one could make a strong argument to include TMO in that list, at least for a short period (in fact, this is still on going).
You make it sound like there is like one group of players that has dominated this server since it's inception, and that simply isn't true. Of the current membership of TR, I'd bet less than 25% ever wore an IB tag. I mean that is a very rough number, but to say that 75% of the current top guild are new players from the previous top guild just illustrates that this server does have a dynamic raiding scene and is not blocked by barriers of entry to every player on the server.
If you want to play 6 hours a week and expect to get dragons, kick rocks. However, both TR and TMO are made up of a number of players that really don't play that much. I mean, at 60, unless you're really into farming, you pretty much only log on when there is something to kill or you want to play an alt. So we can field 35 man raids (with an 80-90 player member base), that is less than 50% turn out. Yea, we have people with 70 and 80% attendance rates, but the vast majority of the guild hovers around the 40% mark - which isn't really that much considering the time even casual players put into this game.
I'm sorry the raid scene doesn't cater to the casual players, but it never has.. not once in the 12 year history of this game. I don't think it is going to change anytime soon.
All trolling aside, this is probably the most accurate statement concerning this thread.
bakkily
08-12-2011, 11:25 PM
well, i understand this doesnt go into affect till the hole was opened
choklo
08-13-2011, 12:14 AM
I agree with Loke's post. "It's all the same, it's only the names that change." People come and go and the guild's names change. The fact remains, if you're not in the top 2 raiding guilds, you won't experience the end game on p1999.
Tiggles
08-13-2011, 01:23 AM
You guys act like TMO and TR have been the top guilds since the server inception. New guilds (EXAMPLE: TMO) pop up all the time to challenge the status quo.
Anyone who has played on this server long enough knows that guilds rise and fall. While IB probably held the crown the longest, even we almost fell apart late last fall when the guild splintered. I mean, we had trouble fielding more than 20 man raids for well over a month. While it is generally two or three guilds competing, and a fair amount of the players have remained the same, there is always room for new guilds to enter the fray.
When I started here it was Transcendence and IB on top. Then for a few months there were actually 7 guilds that competed for mobs (IB, Trans, GC, Divinity, Remedy, In Virtue, and Fish Bait). While it is true that IB got the vast majority of mobs during this time, to say that there was no competitive raiding is a huge fallacy. Some of my fondest moments on this server were doing small group (less than 12 people) planar raids while I was in IV competing against guilds like GC, Fish Bait and Trans.
I mean, we've had at least 3 different top guilds on this server since I've played here (IB -> DA -> TR) and one could make a strong argument to include TMO in that list, at least for a short period (in fact, this is still on going).
You make it sound like there is like one group of players that has dominated this server since it's inception, and that simply isn't true. Of the current membership of TR, I'd bet less than 25% ever wore an IB tag. I mean that is a very rough number, but to say that 75% of the current top guild are new players from the previous top guild just illustrates that this server does have a dynamic raiding scene and is not blocked by barriers of entry to every player on the server.
If you want to play 6 hours a week and expect to get dragons, kick rocks. However, both TR and TMO are made up of a number of players that really don't play that much. I mean, at 60, unless you're really into farming, you pretty much only log on when there is something to kill or you want to play an alt. So we can field 35 man raids (with an 80-90 player member base), that is less than 50% turn out. Yea, we have people with 70 and 80% attendance rates, but the vast majority of the guild hovers around the 40% mark - which isn't really that much considering the time even casual players put into this game.
I'm sorry the raid scene doesn't cater to the casual players, but it never has.. not once in the 12 year history of this game. I don't think it is going to change anytime soon.
Good post Loke, I agree 100%
I agree with Loke's post. "It's all the same, it's only the names that change." People come and go and the guild's names change. The fact remains, if you're not in the top 2 raiding guilds, you won't experience the end game on p1999.
If you don't put in the time to gear up/log on for raids or don't associate with other like minded people then yes you will not see end game. This is neither TMOs or TRs problem. Vox stays up for hours if not days if you want to kill a dragon get your friends and go for it. Faydedar and VS are both easy mobs that you can do with 25+ players 35+ if your lower lvl, and you have every right to try them, its not like the secret of when they spawn is unknown to you.
The fact at hand is you don't want to put in the time so you will never see endgame. So either join a guild or make a guild and don't try and paint TMO/TR as the bad guys here because you are not motivated to slay dragons.
choklo
08-13-2011, 03:20 AM
I don't think Fay, VS, or Vox are end game mobs at this point. I've killed all three before. I'm level 60, geared(hate, non dragon kunark), and guilded. I prefer not to join TR and TMO. Many guilds like taken, BDA, VD, and others could take down trak and naggy- with friends or even as a guild for the most part. The problem is the poopsocking mentality of the two top raiding guilds. It's ugly right now and likely won't get any better. Are you suggesting a third guild join the cluster fark?
I don't think Fay, VS, or Vox are end game mobs at this point. I've killed all three before. I'm level 60, geared(hate, non dragon kunark), and guilded. I prefer not to join TR and TMO. Many guilds like taken, BDA, VD, and others could take down trak and naggy- with friends or even as a guild for the most part. The problem is the poopsocking mentality of the two top raiding guilds. It's ugly right now and likely won't get any better. Are you suggesting a third guild join the cluster fark?
It is the nature of the beast man. In every facet of life, to expect competitive, motivated individuals put aside what they feel is in their best interest in favor of what is in your best interest is unrealistic. Maybe that is selfish, but that regard I guess we live in a selfish world. Just like the bums you pass on the street asking for money, the idea of giving handouts to people who haven't worked to earn it themselves I a generally unappealing proposition to most people. I'm not saying you're a bum, it was just a convenient analogy - what I am saying is that unless you put in the same amount of time and effort as the people in TMO and TR, it isn't realistic to expect to reap the same rewards they do.
I'm sure I'll get a bunch of "wow, this is just a video game" replies, but I tend to apply that same line of reasoning to every aspect of life, video game or not. If you want something that someone else also wants - you need to work harder and get a competitive edge to beat them out, otherwise you're going to get left in the dust.
On a similar topic - I have no problem with casual players who are happy with their casual status. It isn't for me to judge how other people enjoy the game. I don't think I'm better than anyone (well, gear/ability wise I do, but not in a general sense) because I put more time and effort in. If they draw the same enjoyment casually leveling their character up as I do from killing raid mobs, who am I to say they are wrong? There are a lot of guilds that casually raid and are more about the guild community than they are about the competition - guilds like VD and BDA. I have a ton of respect for those guilds and think some of the most dedicated and legit players I have ever met grace their ranks. However, that respect I have for them still doesn't mean I'm going to roll over and hand them any mobs - although I definitely welcome any and all competition :)
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-13-2011, 04:03 AM
I'll say this right up front so there is no confusion. This game has always mostly been about the people who play more get more. Putting more time in means more plat, geared alts, phat lewtz. Always has always will. There is nothing wrong with getting or wanting loot, with killing raid targets and seeing your guild kick ass or improve. No one is expected to do hand-outs and be charity givers and help every other guild gear up, you form guilds to do bigger things and you look out for your guild first. That being said...
The fact at hand is you don't want to put in the time so you will never see endgame. So either join a guild or make a guild and don't try and paint TMO/TR as the bad guys here because you are not motivated to slay dragons.
There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin. But to say people are not motivated to slay dragons. is idiocy. Define motivated. Perhaps they are not motivated to do what you do, does that mean they are not motivated to kill dragons or not motivated to act like selfish jackasses?
Loke is a reasonable fellow but I think what he says is skewed. I agree with some of what you say such as unless you put in the same amount of time and effort as the people in TMO and TR, it isn't realistic to expect to reap the same rewards they do. because that is how it always was and is in game. It isn't a charity, and you shouldn't be expected to. But don't try justifying anything you do by comparing it to real life. Because in real life we have checks and balances, laws and regulations for those how do you say, competitive, motivated individuals. While the following may be true to some degree In every facet of life, to expect competitive, motivated individuals put aside what they feel is in their best interest in favor of what is in your best interest is unrealistic. if none of the rich and wealthy had a sense of social responsibility society would break down. Those same individuals would have us all living in poverty and being their society and community while they made mad bank and society broke down and the country went to shit and and...oh wait. Your stance is both perfectly reasonable and at the same completely ignorant and downright insulting. If they draw the same enjoyment casually leveling their character up as I do from killing raid mobs, who am I to say they are wrong? is insulting. The word competition is another word that has twisted meaning here and you misue like 'motivated'. Because to 'compete' here means a whole lot more then having skilled dedicated players capable of killing a mob. Your 'competition' involves sitting at a spawn for days on end at the nicest. At the worst you're training and petitioning and lying cheating stealing whatever it takes to get what you want. To say others don't have the same dedication or will to compete is insulting. It's the lack of will to stoop to that level. Look at what your form of 'competition' has come to here. If you are willing to sit at a mob for 3 days well then sure I suppose you can use the word 'deserve'. To also say these others guilds are more about the guild community is also insulting, as if we are here to serve your community and give you places to sell your dragon loot. We aren't here to keep your fucking community while you kill everything for you and your alts. To 'compete' people would need to be on call 24/7 for a game, sit in one spot for days, train other guilds, steal pulls, petition GMS every spawn, and be a key ingredient in coming up with some idiotic system that curries to anarchy. The guilds who choose not to do that aren't shying away from 'competition'. They're choosing not to go at this game like you do. 'Competition' here is twisted and warped. People do whatever it takes to stay 'on top' but what does that even mean here? The end justifies the means? Do you mean we aren't willing to 'compete' when we choose not to gank another guilds' target?
You are correct in that you shouldn't have to do 'hand-outs' but don't think you are the few who are actually are 'competitive.' Because whenever I have had my guild in position having won the race in the true nature of competition it turns out to be meaningless because the word here has no meaning. This is what 'competition' here is and to say we are not 'competitive' because we choose not to act like this is moronic.
This is what I have seen as 'competition' here on this server.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Don't assume because other people don't play like you they're just drawing enjoyment from casually leveling characters as you do from killing raid mobs. Your patronizing bullshit makes me sick with your ton of respect for those dedicated and legit players. The same players you respect so much you make sure those people get absolutely no chance at anything in the raid scene by doing whatever it takes to roll over them and fuck them in the ass? Spare me your inane drivel and quit fucking patronizing the people who choose not to partake in the behavior that has been exhibited by what you call 'competition' on this server in the 'end-game' here. You kill the mobs, grats you. You put the time in you get the loot more power to you. No one can fault you or judge you. But unlike live this is the only 'community' left. There aren't 20 other servers for people to spread out on. There is but one. On live people left those servers where guilds behaved like they do here. And while you disregard everyone else as being lazy, non-competitive' casual community building slackers and people feed their greed with no consideration for the 'community' there will be consequences. I don't know what will happen but I doubt 600 people will be in TR or whatever guild it happens to be. I don't know if it ends up just being one guild and that is all as everyone else tires of not being able to enjoy the server. If you really wanted 'competition' when another guild stepped up you would let them have their chances instead of rolling in and sniping a mob from them. If you wanted the server to thrive and build, that is. If you want to encourage 12 year old wow players to come here and join your guild for 4 months until they're bored, please continue. But just like in that video, the people who get there first don't win the 'competition'. Instead the people who come in later just abandon courtesy and decency because all the give a shit about are themselves. And since you aren't forced to behave like fucking humans here you think you are the better 'competitors'? You sit there with your smugness and say you appreciate and respect and all that bullshit the guilds who are here casually as long as they don't dare think they can have a shot at anything on this server. And no matter what you spew from that hole in your face you call a suck your actions speak oh so louder. The instant they might get some of what you think is YOUR loot we see where things really stand.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Every single time I have encountered your guilds at a target it has gone the same. Be it at efreeti, Tranix, myconid king, Traks lair, Fearplane, hateplane, nagafen, sky, you name it I have witnessed the same behavior. Either you send in bards to sit in our raid and charm mobs as they spawn in hateplane, or wait till someone pulls fire giants in front of Tranix then run up and snipe him. Wait for a guild to clear fear and run in and kill Tranix. Wait for them to clear isle 3 and then pull Gorgalosk before they finish counting their keys and end their raid because they can't key up people now. Train giants and whatever else in solb to wipe a naggy attempt because you don't want the guild that got there first getting your loot. Invis by people camping the king and sit on the fort and claim it is now yours due to server rules. If that fails petition and train. Every single time there has been something wanted I have witnessed a complete and utter lack of respect and 'competition'. You've always been someone I could talk to and argue with or disagree with but to hell with this patronizing bullshit. You ought to think about what happens when there is one guild and no one else, oh how much fun that will be. Log onto a server with 120 people and either go to your raid or sit in ec tunnel with the rest of the server. Will you still feel so dedicated and competitive then? Your actions aren't in the nature of 'competition', your actions are killing every thing about competition. When Divinity no longer raids, when BDA, VD, Taken and any other guilds no longer raid what will you have then for your community? If you wanted competition you would have been behaving differently, and the server history speaks for itself. Those on top do whatever it takes to ensure not that there isn't 'competition' but to make it impossible for any real 'competition' to take place. All I hear is talk and I have seen absolutely nothing in the form of real actions in game. Variance to help competition only it variances itself to spawn when everyone in a 'casual' guild logs to sleep or work. There is no 'competition' and all the talk about wanting it is bullshit. Transparent bullshit. Because if you gave a rats ass about competition or the community there would be some kind of agreement worked out to where the hardcore raiders and people who put more time in would get more and true competition actually existed and at the same time people in the more normal casual guilds would still have a chance. You want to be absolutely fair? Either do that or get rid of the rules. Whomever gets the kill gets the win. Trains, ksing, you name it are all legal. The fact you sit behind the rules we have now and claim that you act civilized is a farce. They are just there to make you feel justified with how you behave to others. You want absolute fairness? Fuck FTE and all that jazz on raid targets. Compete all out, no holds barred. Hell make raid areas PVP flagged. You all act like animals anyway who want true competition? Go with kill or be killed then and quit hiding behind the facade of 'competition' we have now.
And ffs get rid of variance. I am sick of logging in and yet another mob has died 'in window' to the same people who don't work or sleep. Another facade. Go back to classic.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Skope
08-13-2011, 06:49 AM
They say they want competition, but when they create their own competition (poopsocking) then they complain that they're competing. Then they want to convince everyone that the rules are the problem! not the shitty attitudes, but the rules. Now everything is dandy because they're seeing their prime target again, but last week when everything was exactly the same there were some serious problems that needed fixing. Basically you have a bunch of tryhards who never got their fix on live (or never raided at all) and spend their entire time on P99. When they see competition they demonize the competing guild and each attempts to stoop to lower levels in order to win out, but... you know... they want competition. right? wait... no, they don't. when they weren't competing everything was fine, and now that they are you see trolling, training, cheating and poopsocking.
Want to raid? quit your job, abandon your children and invest in diapers, because though that it wasn't like this on live (or anywhere near it), it's reality here on P99. I'm not buying the "you're not trying hard enough" crap, because the time invested then was nowhere near the time required here. It's something that the players and staff created here in order to dwindle and selectively pick out the raiding guilds and tiers based on who can put in an obscene amount of time. Anyway...
http://www.necro-equine-sadism.com/beating-a-dead-horse.jpg
Harrison
08-13-2011, 10:48 AM
lol these mongoloids still think poopsocking is competing
YendorLootmonkey
08-13-2011, 11:06 AM
Want to raid? quit your job, abandon your children and invest in diapers, because though that it wasn't like this on live (or anywhere near it), it's reality here on P99. I'm not buying the "you're not trying hard enough" crap, because the time invested then was nowhere near the time required here. It's something that the players and staff created here in order to dwindle and selectively pick out the raiding guilds and tiers based on who can put in an obscene amount of time. Anyway...
^^ truth
Here is the reality of the P99 raid scene for the rest of us. A post I made on my guild's forums in response to plans to hang out in KC for a possible VS attempt if he spawned:
http://i.imgur.com/3fhrI.png
One of the responses, that sums up the situation quite nicely:
http://i.imgur.com/r6txL.png
Thanks for crankin' it up to 11 and making raiding such srs business on an emu server, effectively turning it into a 2nd job (or 1st job in most cases), guys! :P
Tiggles
08-13-2011, 11:07 AM
I'll say this right up front so there is no confusion. This game has always mostly been about the people who play more get more. Putting more time in means more plat, geared alts, phat lewtz. Always has always will. There is nothing wrong with getting or wanting loot, with killing raid targets and seeing your guild kick ass or improve. No one is expected to do hand-outs and be charity givers and help every other guild gear up, you form guilds to do bigger things and you look out for your guild first. That being said...
There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin. But to say people is idiocy. Define motivated. Perhaps they are not motivated to do what you do, does that mean they are not motivated to kill dragons or not motivated to act like selfish jackasses?
Loke is a reasonable fellow but I think what he says is skewed. I agree with some of what you say such as because that is how it always was and is in game. It isn't a charity, and you shouldn't be expected to. But don't try justifying anything you do by comparing it to real life. Because in real life we have checks and balances, laws and regulations for those how do you say, . While the following may be true to some degree if none of the rich and wealthy had a sense of social responsibility society would break down. Those same individuals would have us all living in poverty and being their society and community while they made mad bank and society broke down and the country went to shit and and...oh wait. Your stance is both perfectly reasonable and at the same completely ignorant and downright insulting. is insulting. The word competition is another word that has twisted meaning here and you misue like 'motivated'. Because to 'compete' here means a whole lot more then having skilled dedicated players capable of killing a mob. Your 'competition' involves sitting at a spawn for days on end at the nicest. At the worst you're training and petitioning and lying cheating stealing whatever it takes to get what you want. To say others don't have the same dedication or will to compete is insulting. It's the lack of will to stoop to that level. Look at what your form of 'competition' has come to here. If you are willing to sit at a mob for 3 days well then sure I suppose you can use the word 'deserve'. To also say these others guilds are more about the guild community is also insulting, as if we are here to serve your community and give you places to sell your dragon loot. We aren't here to keep your fucking community while you kill everything for you and your alts. To 'compete' people would need to be on call 24/7 for a game, sit in one spot for days, train other guilds, steal pulls, petition GMS every spawn, and be a key ingredient in coming up with some idiotic system that curries to anarchy. The guilds who choose not to do that aren't shying away from 'competition'. They're choosing not to go at this game like you do. 'Competition' here is twisted and warped. People do whatever it takes to stay 'on top' but what does that even mean here? The end justifies the means? Do you mean we aren't willing to 'compete' when we choose not to gank another guilds' target?
You are correct in that you shouldn't have to do 'hand-outs' but don't think you are the few who are actually are 'competitive.' Because whenever I have had my guild in position having won the race in the true nature of competition it turns out to be meaningless because the word here has no meaning. This is what 'competition' here is and to say we are not 'competitive' because we choose not to act like this is moronic.
This is what I have seen as 'competition' here on this server.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Don't assume because other people don't play like you they're just drawing enjoyment from casually leveling characters as you do from killing raid mobs. Your patronizing bullshit makes me sick with your for those dedicated and legit players. The same players you respect so much you make sure those people get absolutely no chance at anything in the raid scene by doing whatever it takes to roll over them and fuck them in the ass? Spare me your inane drivel and quit fucking patronizing the people who choose not to partake in the behavior that has been exhibited by what you call 'competition' on this server in the 'end-game' here. You kill the mobs, grats you. You put the time in you get the loot more power to you. No one can fault you or judge you. But unlike live this is the only 'community' left. There aren't 20 other servers for people to spread out on. There is but one. On live people left those servers where guilds behaved like they do here. And while you disregard everyone else as being lazy, non-competitive' casual community building slackers and people feed their greed with no consideration for the 'community' there will be consequences. I don't know what will happen but I doubt 600 people will be in TR or whatever guild it happens to be. I don't know if it ends up just being one guild and that is all as everyone else tires of not being able to enjoy the server. If you really wanted 'competition' when another guild stepped up you would let them have their chances instead of rolling in and sniping a mob from them. If you wanted the server to thrive and build, that is. If you want to encourage 12 year old wow players to come here and join your guild for 4 months until they're bored, please continue. But just like in that video, the people who get there first don't win the 'competition'. Instead the people who come in later just abandon courtesy and decency because all the give a shit about are themselves. And since you aren't forced to behave like fucking humans here you think you are the better 'competitors'? You sit there with your smugness and say you appreciate and respect and all that bullshit the guilds who are here casually as long as they don't dare think they can have a shot at anything on this server. And no matter what you spew from that hole in your face you call a suck your actions speak oh so louder. The instant they might get some of what you think is YOUR loot we see where things really stand.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Every single time I have encountered your guilds at a target it has gone the same. Be it at efreeti, Tranix, myconid king, Traks lair, Fearplane, hateplane, nagafen, sky, you name it I have witnessed the same behavior. Either you send in bards to sit in our raid and charm mobs as they spawn in hateplane, or wait till someone pulls fire giants in front of Tranix then run up and snipe him. Wait for a guild to clear fear and run in and kill Tranix. Wait for them to clear isle 3 and then pull Gorgalosk before they finish counting their keys and end their raid because they can't key up people now. Train giants and whatever else in solb to wipe a naggy attempt because you don't want the guild that got there first getting your loot. Invis by people camping the king and sit on the fort and claim it is now yours due to server rules. If that fails petition and train. Every single time there has been something wanted I have witnessed a complete and utter lack of respect and 'competition'. You've always been someone I could talk to and argue with or disagree with but to hell with this patronizing bullshit. You ought to think about what happens when there is one guild and no one else, oh how much fun that will be. Log onto a server with 120 people and either go to your raid or sit in ec tunnel with the rest of the server. Will you still feel so dedicated and competitive then? Your actions aren't in the nature of 'competition', your actions are killing every thing about competition. When Divinity no longer raids, when BDA, VD, Taken and any other guilds no longer raid what will you have then for your community? If you wanted competition you would have been behaving differently, and the server history speaks for itself. Those on top do whatever it takes to ensure not that there isn't 'competition' but to make it impossible for any real 'competition' to take place. All I hear is talk and I have seen absolutely nothing in the form of real actions in game. Variance to help competition only it variances itself to spawn when everyone in a 'casual' guild logs to sleep or work. There is no 'competition' and all the talk about wanting it is bullshit. Transparent bullshit. Because if you gave a rats ass about competition or the community there would be some kind of agreement worked out to where the hardcore raiders and people who put more time in would get more and true competition actually existed and at the same time people in the more normal casual guilds would still have a chance. You want to be absolutely fair? Either do that or get rid of the rules. Whomever gets the kill gets the win. Trains, ksing, you name it are all legal. The fact you sit behind the rules we have now and claim that you act civilized is a farce. They are just there to make you feel justified with how you behave to others. You want absolute fairness? Fuck FTE and all that jazz on raid targets. Compete all out, no holds barred. Hell make raid areas PVP flagged. You all act like animals anyway who want true competition? Go with kill or be killed then and quit hiding behind the facade of 'competition' we have now.
And ffs get rid of variance. I am sick of logging in and yet another mob has died 'in window' to the same people who don't work or sleep. Another facade. Go back to classic.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
I didn't read ANY of this.
Also move this thread to RnF please
Bubbles
08-13-2011, 11:17 AM
I didn't read ANY of this.
It's a shame you didn't. It's every bit as detailed, thorough, and insightful as Loke's was. I thought they made pretty good bookends to each perspective of the raiding scene.
Tiggles
08-13-2011, 11:28 AM
It's a shame you didn't. It's every bit as detailed, thorough, and insightful as Loke's was. I thought they made pretty good bookends to each perspective of the raiding scene.
Ok i just skimmed it
Looks like he wants some government body "The staff?" to force the raiding guilds "The rich" to give mobs to the casual guilds "The poor"
http://www.theawl.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/atlas2.jpg
I'll say this right up front so there is no confusion. This game has always mostly been about the people who play more get more. Putting more time in means more plat, geared alts, phat lewtz. Always has always will. There is nothing wrong with getting or wanting loot, with killing raid targets and seeing your guild kick ass or improve. No one is expected to do hand-outs and be charity givers and help every other guild gear up, you form guilds to do bigger things and you look out for your guild first. That being said...
There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin. But to say people is idiocy. Define motivated. Perhaps they are not motivated to do what you do, does that mean they are not motivated to kill dragons or not motivated to act like selfish jackasses?
Loke is a reasonable fellow but I think what he says is skewed. I agree with some of what you say such as because that is how it always was and is in game. It isn't a charity, and you shouldn't be expected to. But don't try justifying anything you do by comparing it to real life. Because in real life we have checks and balances, laws and regulations for those how do you say, . While the following may be true to some degree if none of the rich and wealthy had a sense of social responsibility society would break down. Those same individuals would have us all living in poverty and being their society and community while they made mad bank and society broke down and the country went to shit and and...oh wait. Your stance is both perfectly reasonable and at the same completely ignorant and downright insulting. is insulting. The word competition is another word that has twisted meaning here and you misue like 'motivated'. Because to 'compete' here means a whole lot more then having skilled dedicated players capable of killing a mob. Your 'competition' involves sitting at a spawn for days on end at the nicest. At the worst you're training and petitioning and lying cheating stealing whatever it takes to get what you want. To say others don't have the same dedication or will to compete is insulting. It's the lack of will to stoop to that level. Look at what your form of 'competition' has come to here. If you are willing to sit at a mob for 3 days well then sure I suppose you can use the word 'deserve'. To also say these others guilds are more about the guild community is also insulting, as if we are here to serve your community and give you places to sell your dragon loot. We aren't here to keep your fucking community while you kill everything for you and your alts. To 'compete' people would need to be on call 24/7 for a game, sit in one spot for days, train other guilds, steal pulls, petition GMS every spawn, and be a key ingredient in coming up with some idiotic system that curries to anarchy. The guilds who choose not to do that aren't shying away from 'competition'. They're choosing not to go at this game like you do. 'Competition' here is twisted and warped. People do whatever it takes to stay 'on top' but what does that even mean here? The end justifies the means? Do you mean we aren't willing to 'compete' when we choose not to gank another guilds' target?
You are correct in that you shouldn't have to do 'hand-outs' but don't think you are the few who are actually are 'competitive.' Because whenever I have had my guild in position having won the race in the true nature of competition it turns out to be meaningless because the word here has no meaning. This is what 'competition' here is and to say we are not 'competitive' because we choose not to act like this is moronic.
This is what I have seen as 'competition' here on this server.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Don't assume because other people don't play like you they're just drawing enjoyment from casually leveling characters as you do from killing raid mobs. Your patronizing bullshit makes me sick with your for those dedicated and legit players. The same players you respect so much you make sure those people get absolutely no chance at anything in the raid scene by doing whatever it takes to roll over them and fuck them in the ass? Spare me your inane drivel and quit fucking patronizing the people who choose not to partake in the behavior that has been exhibited by what you call 'competition' on this server in the 'end-game' here. You kill the mobs, grats you. You put the time in you get the loot more power to you. No one can fault you or judge you. But unlike live this is the only 'community' left. There aren't 20 other servers for people to spread out on. There is but one. On live people left those servers where guilds behaved like they do here. And while you disregard everyone else as being lazy, non-competitive' casual community building slackers and people feed their greed with no consideration for the 'community' there will be consequences. I don't know what will happen but I doubt 600 people will be in TR or whatever guild it happens to be. I don't know if it ends up just being one guild and that is all as everyone else tires of not being able to enjoy the server. If you really wanted 'competition' when another guild stepped up you would let them have their chances instead of rolling in and sniping a mob from them. If you wanted the server to thrive and build, that is. If you want to encourage 12 year old wow players to come here and join your guild for 4 months until they're bored, please continue. But just like in that video, the people who get there first don't win the 'competition'. Instead the people who come in later just abandon courtesy and decency because all the give a shit about are themselves. And since you aren't forced to behave like fucking humans here you think you are the better 'competitors'? You sit there with your smugness and say you appreciate and respect and all that bullshit the guilds who are here casually as long as they don't dare think they can have a shot at anything on this server. And no matter what you spew from that hole in your face you call a suck your actions speak oh so louder. The instant they might get some of what you think is YOUR loot we see where things really stand.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Every single time I have encountered your guilds at a target it has gone the same. Be it at efreeti, Tranix, myconid king, Traks lair, Fearplane, hateplane, nagafen, sky, you name it I have witnessed the same behavior. Either you send in bards to sit in our raid and charm mobs as they spawn in hateplane, or wait till someone pulls fire giants in front of Tranix then run up and snipe him. Wait for a guild to clear fear and run in and kill Tranix. Wait for them to clear isle 3 and then pull Gorgalosk before they finish counting their keys and end their raid because they can't key up people now. Train giants and whatever else in solb to wipe a naggy attempt because you don't want the guild that got there first getting your loot. Invis by people camping the king and sit on the fort and claim it is now yours due to server rules. If that fails petition and train. Every single time there has been something wanted I have witnessed a complete and utter lack of respect and 'competition'. You've always been someone I could talk to and argue with or disagree with but to hell with this patronizing bullshit. You ought to think about what happens when there is one guild and no one else, oh how much fun that will be. Log onto a server with 120 people and either go to your raid or sit in ec tunnel with the rest of the server. Will you still feel so dedicated and competitive then? Your actions aren't in the nature of 'competition', your actions are killing every thing about competition. When Divinity no longer raids, when BDA, VD, Taken and any other guilds no longer raid what will you have then for your community? If you wanted competition you would have been behaving differently, and the server history speaks for itself. Those on top do whatever it takes to ensure not that there isn't 'competition' but to make it impossible for any real 'competition' to take place. All I hear is talk and I have seen absolutely nothing in the form of real actions in game. Variance to help competition only it variances itself to spawn when everyone in a 'casual' guild logs to sleep or work. There is no 'competition' and all the talk about wanting it is bullshit. Transparent bullshit. Because if you gave a rats ass about competition or the community there would be some kind of agreement worked out to where the hardcore raiders and people who put more time in would get more and true competition actually existed and at the same time people in the more normal casual guilds would still have a chance. You want to be absolutely fair? Either do that or get rid of the rules. Whomever gets the kill gets the win. Trains, ksing, you name it are all legal. The fact you sit behind the rules we have now and claim that you act civilized is a farce. They are just there to make you feel justified with how you behave to others. You want absolute fairness? Fuck FTE and all that jazz on raid targets. Compete all out, no holds barred. Hell make raid areas PVP flagged. You all act like animals anyway who want true competition? Go with kill or be killed then and quit hiding behind the facade of 'competition' we have now.
And ffs get rid of variance. I am sick of logging in and yet another mob has died 'in window' to the same people who don't work or sleep. Another facade. Go back to classic.
P99 'competition' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
Laughing at this post. Shaere, if your guild can't compete it's no one's fault but your own. Be better and mobilize better. Stop blaming everyone for your problems. No one has poopsocked anything but Trakanon / VS (and it was for 2-3 kills out of 35+ and not recently). Those other ~9-10 odd mobs per cycle? What's your excuse for not being able to kill them? Yeah, I thought so. Stop whining and play better.
And learn how to use some paragraphs.
SupaflyIRL
08-13-2011, 12:09 PM
I didn't read any of that and the level of care and effort in this thread is astonishing. You should all take a moment of introspection and then immediately act on your findings, which will either be an awakening or suicide (most likely suicide).
Taryth
08-13-2011, 12:17 PM
It's shit like this that ran off new players and still does. It's shit like this that caused the overuse of instances. We all loved raiding back in the day but only a select few were able to get into the elite guilds. This caused developers to create instances, this caused us to hate these games, and ultimately caused us to play on this server again.
Think outside the fuckin' bun.
It's no different from the EC market guilds buying up everything and then selling at hugely inflated prices. Just makes the barrier of entry for new people that much worse.
People are greedy and do stupid, short-sighted things. Especially when they can do it without anyone knowing who they are.
CHusk2
08-13-2011, 12:29 PM
Hey guys,
Before I start, let me just point out that the paradigm I'm coming from is that of someone who has never raided, but is interested in raiding. That being said:
I've thoroughly enjoyed the (significant) non-flame portions of this thread, such as the comments by Shaere, Tiggles, and others who have found excellent ways to draw attention to a problem (which I was personally mostly unaware of) while also providing cited and informed insight into the current situation.
Say what you want about either side, but I can't think of another mmo out there where such detail and "case structure" would be presented in order to articulate a point. It's very much more a legitimate debate, or maybe more of a loose stating of ideas, than a flat out flame, which I think is much more productive, and definitely more informative.
So, based on the information I've read, it's looking like I probably won't be raiding Vox/Nagafen. As much fun as I think that would be, I can state with full confidence that I will not be getting bent out of shape about it. I'm still looking forward to learning raid dynamics in other places.
I'm not trying to tell anyone else how to think or feel, but that's my paradigm. It might be different if I were able to play a lot more, but as it stands now I consider myself very fortunate to have this server to play on. This isn't something the development staff "had" to do, and I think that the "thank yous" they get are probably few and far between.
So, at the expense of jumping around and sounding somewhat incoherent, I'll conclude by saying that I will continue to enjoy this excellent game/community whenever I possibly can. If there's a Vox/Nagafen raid in my near future, that's cool. If not, it doesn't really change the enjoyment factor for me.
I think it's important to stop and smell the proverbial roses every once in a while. Getting laid from time to time doesn't hurt, either.
Alkaiser Baneofmistmoore - 45 Erudite Cleric of Prexus
choklo
08-13-2011, 12:33 PM
It is the nature of the beast man. In every facet of life, to expect competitive, motivated individuals put aside what they feel is in their best interest in favor of what is in your best interest is unrealistic. Maybe that is selfish, but that regard I guess we live in a selfish world...
I'm sure I'll get a bunch of "wow, this is just a video game" replies, but I tend to apply that same line of reasoning to every aspect of life, video game or not. If you want something that someone else also wants - you need to work harder and get a competitive edge to beat them out, otherwise you're going to get left in the dust.
This may be the best summary of the problem on p1999. If this was Intel vs. AMD(capitalism) or New York vs Boston(professional sports) or conservatives vs progressives(politics) I'd get it. But this is more like a group of kindergardeners taking over the big slide on the playground. The other kids want a turn, but the select group keep it for themselves, because they can.
That is until the teachers intervene and make everyone play nice again.
It's a game guys. Why do some people have to turn it into their 2nd or even first job and treat it like it's more important than everything else in their (sad?) lives?
YendorLootmonkey
08-13-2011, 12:35 PM
Laughing at this post. Shaere, if your guild can't compete it's no one's fault but your own. Be better and mobilize better.
His post isn't about that. Here are the key points:
The word competition is another word that has twisted meaning here and you misue like 'motivated'. Because to 'compete' here means a whole lot more then having skilled dedicated players capable of killing a mob. Your 'competition' involves sitting at a spawn for days on end at the nicest. At the worst you're training and petitioning and lying cheating stealing whatever it takes to get what you want. To say others don't have the same dedication or will to compete is insulting. It's the lack of will to stoop to that level.
If you really wanted 'competition' when another guild stepped up you would let them have their chances instead of rolling in and sniping a mob from them.
Either you send in bards to sit in our raid and charm mobs as they spawn in hateplane, or wait till someone pulls fire giants in front of Tranix then run up and snipe him. Wait for a guild to clear fear and run in and kill CT. Wait for them to clear isle 3 and then pull Gorgalosk before they finish counting their keys and end their raid because they can't key up people now. Train giants and whatever else in solb to wipe a naggy attempt because you don't want the guild that got there first getting your loot. Invis by people camping the king and sit on the fort and claim it is now yours due to server rules. If that fails petition and train. Every single time there has been something wanted I have witnessed a complete and utter lack of respect and 'competition'.
You don't want competition, so stop saying you do. Because the above things happen when you get competition, and because most of us aren't willing to stoop to that level, fuck it, have the mob if it's that important to you. If that's how you want to "win", fine. If your idea of winning a bicycle race is to suckerpunch other people competing against you, pushing them into oncoming traffic with your foot, shoving a lead pipe in their spokes, using a blowgun to fire a tranquilizer dart in their neck, etc, so you can be the only one crossing the finish line at the end to the point where no one even wants to show up to the race next time because it's less trouble just to let you win... was it really about who was faster on a bicycle? No.
I can't speak for the others here, but I'm not wasting my personal time helping my guild mobilize and attempt to engage a raid target just to have some douchewafflery (see above) happen that wastes all our time for the night.
Tarathiel
08-13-2011, 12:40 PM
Hey guys,
Before I start, let me just point out that the paradigm I'm coming from is that of someone who has never raided, but is interested in raiding. That being said:
I've thoroughly enjoyed the (significant) non-flame portions of this thread, such as the comments by Shaere, Tiggles, and others who have found excellent ways to draw attention to a problem (which I was personally mostly unaware of) while also providing cited and informed insight into the current situation.
Say what you want about either side, but I can't think of another mmo out there where such detail and "case structure" would be presented in order to articulate a point. It's very much more a legitimate debate, or maybe more of a loose stating of ideas, than a flat out flame, which I think is much more productive, and definitely more informative.
So, based on the information I've read, it's looking like I probably won't be raiding Vox/Nagafen. As much fun as I think that would be, I can state with full confidence that I will not be getting bent out of shape about it. I'm still looking forward to learning raid dynamics in other places.
I'm not trying to tell anyone else how to think or feel, but that's my paradigm. It might be different if I were able to play a lot more, but as it stands now I consider myself very fortunate to have this server to play on. This isn't something the development staff "had" to do, and I think that the "thank yous" they get are probably few and far between.
So, at the expense of jumping around and sounding somewhat incoherent, I'll conclude by saying that I will continue to enjoy this excellent game/community whenever I possibly can. If there's a Vox/Nagafen raid in my near future, that's cool. If not, it doesn't really change the enjoyment factor for me.
I think it's important to stop and smell the proverbial roses every once in a while. Getting laid from time to time doesn't hurt, either.
Alkaiser Baneofmistmoore - 45 Erudite Cleric of Prexus
naggy spawned last night as was downed by a combined force of BDA and TR... everything went surprisingly smooth... everyone worked together and there wasnt even any deaths... too bad he dropped shitty loot... haha that being said, dont lose hope young padawan naggy/vox are becoming less and less of a priority to the big guilds so its much easier to either A. mobilize your own guild for the kill OR B. mobilize a pick up raid and kill him all the samie... oh and it should also be noted that the banishment thing is a myth...
choklo
08-13-2011, 12:46 PM
That is nice Tarathiel, maybe even a ray of hope. Are you guys going to duo trak too?
Deadmantis
08-13-2011, 12:48 PM
Hey guys,
I think it's important to stop and smell the proverbial roses every once in a while. Getting laid from time to time doesn't hurt, either.
Alkaiser Baneofmistmoore - 45 Erudite Cleric of Prexus
As a former poopsocker and raider from EQ live, I have no interest in raiding on P99. After reading some of the nonsense that goes on here, I am thankful for that.
This time around I am taking time to enjoy the things I skipped over before in the mad rush to get to the endgame. Besides, I am in a better place now compared to 12 years ago. I am no longer living in the basement eating hot pockets. I am now engaged to be married, working a better job, and I enjoy seeing the light of day.
To each his own I guess :)
Tarathiel
08-13-2011, 12:51 PM
That is nice Tarathiel, maybe even a ray of hope. Are you guys going to duo trak too?
no, but we tag teamed your mom last night after the raid =D
Skope
08-13-2011, 02:51 PM
Tiggles, you seem to forget that a lot of original live EQ servers had a set rotation, sometimes even calendar based. Please don't tell me you're one of those "FTE! IT WAS THE EQ WAY" people, because quite a few of us can remember that it most certainly wasn't. It depended on the server, but no servers had 4 day windows on primary targets and incessant sockfests. FTE and FFA is all fine and dandy if it were done properly, but Save the Ayn Rand shit for your economy class. But, perhaps more importantly, don't pull a Loke. The server's raid scene has been crap for a while now (since last year) with intermittent moments of actual competition. Raid rules were changed and still the outcome was the same. I don't feel I need to post exactly how i feel about this or the specifics, and more clearly quite a few people seem to think much the same way. If you really want to start a GM favoritism thread, this would be your best evidence.
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-13-2011, 03:37 PM
Yes. Spare me your talk of 'competition'. I don't want the staff to have to come in and tell people how to play you mental midget. On live if you were moving a group to say Efreeti and you killed all the imps except the ones inside his room your group would set up outside and pull. You manage to pull the guards inside leaving him alone, and another guild runs up and ganks him. Anyone that pulled that kind of dickhead stunt would be vilified and eviscerated for such asshole behavior. Here it is encouraged and you peons call it 'competition.' You say other guilds aren't willing to 'compete' so they obviously don't 'deserve' anything because they aren't 'dedicated' or 'hardcore' enough. What a crock of bullshit. And let me be clear again, no one is complaining that if TR or TMO or any guild in the past as Loke referred to gets the gods/dragons because they are willing to text message or mobilize quickly. That was always how things worked.
P99 legal competition (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZYxKR-IdGo)
is not how 'competition' works. You call yourselves skilled and dedicated and therefore deserving of said targets or mobs when in fact I curse you for the selfish cowards you are. The rules in place only serve the guild on top. This game has always been about camping things AND mobilizing and when you have this 5 day variance all it does is make it easier for certain people to get more and everyone else less. Put the shit back on a fixed timer so people know when it spawns. And LIKE ANY OTHER CAMP the person that got there first has the fucking camp. Your bullshit about being able to leapfrog and steal pulls and show no lack of courtesy or respect is just a transparent veil that enables you to be selfish assholes. Under the 'rules' here the behavior that was not tolerated or allowed on live is fair game and encouraged. But you can claim that it is 'legal' so therefore you are in the right, and doing nothing wrong.
The story is the same, every time one guild pulls a dick move people say "I'm not the one leading" or "It wasn't my call". How about "Yeah I didn't agree with it" or "I didn't approve". Yet those same people go along with it because not to means no loot for them. Too cowardly to stand up for anything and too selfish to say anything. Fire giants were always part of Nagafen I don't remember guilds leapfrogging and training each other once you had your guild at bind corner the last few pulls and the Nagafen attempt was yours. Every chance you have had at affecting a change by your actions on this server you have ignored and went for whatever got you the loot. No thoughts to the long term or what you were doing just going for the phat lewt for you. The actions of the 'top' raiding guilds on this server have created this mess and I have seen no tangible action that leads me to believe they want anything other then what we have. Killing every single mob and ensuring no one else got nothing forces people to poopsock. And quit fucking talking of competition like we have that here you morons have twisted and warped any sense of the word and simply are enablers seeking to keep any kind of system in place that servers you and you alone. Show me otherwise, prove it. Because your actions have spoken loud and clear on this server for quite some time.
His post isn't about that. Here are the key points:
You don't want competition, so stop saying you do. Because the above things happen when you get competition, and because most of us aren't willing to stoop to that level, fuck it, have the mob if it's that important to you. If that's how you want to "win", fine. If your idea of winning a bicycle race is to suckerpunch other people competing against you, pushing them into oncoming traffic with your foot, shoving a lead pipe in their spokes, using a blowgun to fire a tranquilizer dart in their neck, etc, so you can be the only one crossing the finish line at the end to the point where no one even wants to show up to the race next time because it's less trouble just to let you win... was it really about who was faster on a bicycle? No.
I can't speak for the others here, but I'm not wasting my personal time helping my guild mobilize and attempt to engage a raid target just to have some douchewafflery (see above) happen that wastes all our time for the night.
His post was about all the unfair things TR / TMO does, but alas, he provides zero proof about the training, kill stealing, whatever conspiracy theory he's cooking up these days. The only valid point he had was that they poopsocked, which I addressed. If TR / TMO are breaking server rules while raiding he should petition and let the GMs handle it.
Your analogy is flawed by the way. Punching someone in a race is against the rules and will get you kicked out. What TMO / TR is doing is training harder than you and finding the will to peddle faster than you in the race. You're losing fair and square. Get the race supervisors to limit the hours they can practice so you can get a win if you want, but as things stand, they're out competing you.
Slathar
08-13-2011, 05:44 PM
they're out competing you.
by out competing you mean sitting in front of a computer longer than the other guys, right?
Skope
08-13-2011, 05:47 PM
by out competing you mean sitting in front of a computer longer than the other guys, right?
that's been the definition of competition on P99 for a while now. then they leave their PC on for a few days and leave their char afk'd and that's also competition, but the latter one they usually complain about how much they hate doing it and yet keep doing it.
by out competing you mean sitting in front of a computer longer than the other guys, right?
Yeah, that's generally what you do when you play a computer game. I think you out compete a lot of people on these forums!
Slathar
08-13-2011, 06:06 PM
Yeah, that's generally what you do when you play a computer game. I think you out compete a lot of people on these forums!
really? when you play a computer game you generally play 12-18 hours a day and get text messages sent to your phone to log in at 4 am on a work day?
yeah, that sounds to be what people generally do!
Mcbard
08-13-2011, 06:11 PM
That's how every MMO I've ever played works actually.. more time invested and a higher level of preparation leads to more rewards. Isn't that pretty much the entire point of playing an MMO? I mean, that is what a level based system encourages right.. it's not like they get any easier or take any less time the higher you get.. and a lot of people want to get max level (yes you can do this while having fun) not run around roleplaying that you're a bear or some retarded shit.
So ya, I think hardcore mmo players typically do put a lot of time into the game they're playing, not sure what other game you've been playing but that's how it works and thems the breaks.
Slathar
08-13-2011, 06:20 PM
That's how every MMO I've ever played works actually.. more time invested and a higher level of preparation leads to more rewards. Isn't that pretty much the entire point of playing an MMO? I mean, that is what a level based system encourages right.. it's not like they get any easier or take any less time the higher you get.. and a lot of people want to get max level (yes you can do this while having fun) not run around roleplaying that you're a bear or some retarded shit.
So ya, I think hardcore mmo players typically do put a lot of time into the game they're playing, not sure what other game you've been playing but that's how it works and thems the breaks.
i disagree, but you're in TR so you'll produce some bullshit defense mechanism to justify your unhealthy play time
Skope
08-13-2011, 06:21 PM
That's how every MMO I've ever played works actually.. more time invested and a higher level of preparation leads to more rewards. Isn't that pretty much the entire point of playing an MMO? I mean, that is what a level based system encourages right.. it's not like they get any easier or take any less time the higher you get.. and a lot of people want to get max level (yes you can do this while having fun) not run around roleplaying that you're a bear or some retarded shit.
So ya, I think hardcore mmo players typically do put a lot of time into the game they're playing, not sure what other game you've been playing but that's how it works and thems the breaks.
you can put in all the time you want, but when it's excessive and was originally put in place to prevent behaviors that are taking place anyway it then serves no purpose and furthermore is actually going against the main objective of the server. you know?
if you played WoW you might remember the old 72hr limit on some raid zones ( i think it was 72 hrs?) where you couldn't raid a zone until that limit ran down. You were allowed to still play the game and do whatever else you wanted, but thems the timelimit for that particular zone. People didn't sit in front the port-in until that limit wore off, they actually played the game. what's happening now isn't necessary, and it's actually driving away competition because it's so unnecessary. should i really have to spend 4 days in a zone waiting for something to spawn that should have a window only a quarter of the size of the current window? all this to deter people from sitting on its spawn when they do it anyway? how the hell are we not on the same page here?
you can still put in more time and get more shit, like waking up at 3am to down (insert awesome name here) or spend all day in crypt or efreeti's lair. my point is that you SHOULD be doing that instead of waiting around for 4 days and poopsocking because of some old decrepit shitbag of a rule that never worked anyway. as it stands, people who actually PLAY the game are at a disadvantage.
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-13-2011, 06:57 PM
I am not judging or angry at someone because they invest more time and get more loot. That is how it works plan and simple. I am also not flaming anyone for camping shit or 'poopsocking' shit to get the mobs. It always has been those willing to put the time in get the loot. What I got angry about is that patronizing bullshit us little casual raiders are such nice little boys and girls keeping the community alive or that we don't deserve shit because we aren't willing to 'compete". That and the fact you actually think what you have going is 'fair competition'. This crap is exactly why instances came to be and no, I was not for instancing on live. I thought it ruined the community.
And Mcbard and Skope both nailed it. I say when is enough enough. Where is the line in going from a top raid guild of skilled players mobilizing quickly and beating others in competition for raid mobs to something else? When does it become 'win at any costs while screaming competition? When does it cease to be enjoying the game and ruining others' enjoyment? When does simply wanting loots and gearing up your toons become greed for the sake of greed. Next server reboot go back to fixed spawn times. Make them choose what raid target they want, like you had to on live. Don't spread it out so the same people get everything because it is all spread out for them. Or if you really want to compete? Anything goes on raid targets except for ninjalooting. Whatever guild gets the kill gets the mob. That would add some strategy to Trakanon, no? No sitting afk or poopsocking, you would need to be active and aware to be ready for trains or whatever else comes your way. Everyone would have a shot at the mob and poopsocking would go away. So many variables as far as strategy goes and the ONLY petition you would have to worry about is ninjalooting. If guild X gets the kill only guild X can loot it. No worrying about anything else. And once the raid target dies back to normal. Trains cease and all that jazz. The guilds that are mature and can work together could behave like adults and the ones who are on their ofp could be destroyed by those same guilds when they enter the area. You think poopsocking makes people want to sit down and come up with a rotation? Imagine a fear raid where you're allowed to train the other guild. It wouldn't be long before they would get tired of constantly being trained in an AOW attempt or Venril sathir camp or spend 28 hours doing cr in fear before they decided to sit down and figure something out like adults.
Harrison
08-13-2011, 10:01 PM
ITT: Terrible guilds and their players defend sitting on spawnpoints as a "tactic" rather than the pathetic bullshit that it really is.
Mcbard
08-13-2011, 10:02 PM
i disagree, but you're in TR so you'll produce some bullshit defense mechanism to justify your unhealthy play time
Lol no.. if you disagree you disagree. I don't feel that I need to defend my style of play, no more then you or anyone else needs to defend theirs. We all play the game we want to, and if we're not we change something about it or we stop. I was simply stating facts; mmo's reward "better loot" and "harder mobs" to those who put in more time anda higher level of preperation. They work on a tier system, where those at higher teirs and levels have access to better in game things. That's just sort of how it works. So naturally those willing to spend more time preparing for something and investing time in it are generally the ones who are rewarded by it.
arsenalpow
08-14-2011, 02:13 AM
If you thought shaere's rant was bad, I can't wait to see what he says about Taken clearing all the fire giants then having TR leapfrog and engage simultaneously on Naggy.
I believe Taken got the kill but TR claimed first to engage, it's all still being hashed out I believe...
Also, what's the policy on having 52+ people actually participating in the Nagafen fight and not getting banished? I watched Slydexx and Oblexis chain nuke and never get banished.
Incoming - post from Shaere about Naggy tonight. Calling it.
Edit: bah, was too slow. Well played Arsenalpow~
If you thought shaere's rant was bad, I can't wait to see what he says about Taken clearing all the fire giants then having TR leapfrog and engage simultaneously on Naggy.
I believe Taken got the kill but TR claimed first to engage, it's all still being hashed out I believe...
Also, what's the policy on having 52+ people actually participating in the Nagafen fight and not getting banished? I watched Slydexx and Oblexis chain nuke and never get banished.
That's hilarious. So Taken abuses a bug in the banish system to get the kill on Naggy with level 60s chain nuking? Oh Shaere, your rants... they just won't have the same moral authority (not that they did considering I just imagined you using MEQ2 / SEQ everytime you said anything).
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-14-2011, 02:54 AM
I'll post since Loke seems to want it. You won't get a rant as of now but we had two count them two TR members behind us as we cleared the last few fire giants. Tixel and Archaex or something? When we moved up to engage Nagafen with our 29 players I believe it was 3 or 4 TR members come running up in en effort to snipe him I remember looking around seeing Archaex on the stairs, Quez something running up, Mcjagger down at the 4 spawn, a high elf magician in apothic running through 4 spawn, Uaelleun came running up to the fight as Nagafen was being fought. They had no more then a few players in the area and were running people up through soldungb in an effort to gather their forces. Now there wasn't trains or flames or anything but I can say they had no more then 3 or 4 people there and running people up as fast as they could as we moved up to engage. And I believe the whole aggro Naggy and try holding him as you ran your raid up thing has been covered but have heard nothing that indicated to me anyone in TR was flipping out about anything. we did run fraps and assign people to Tixel and Archaex, turned trading off and ignored them to prevent spam or trades and such, and assigned people to watch and handle possible trains but I didn't see anything otherthen the typical asshattery at the end.
If it in fact there is an argument I haven't been made aware of, the TR people made only a few comments after it. One was odd after I linked the loot in guildchat where Quez said if we handed over the bag they wouldn't check FTE and it was odd because I remember thinking he said that as I linked it in guildchat. Then Uaellean asked if anyone needed a res, and Nedala? offered ports at the end and that was pretty much it.
On 52 plus getting banished I had actually prepared for that by having the 52 plus bind nearby. I asked them to rush in, nuke tash or whatever get banished and gate back and rinse repeat. I, on Shaere, pulled naggys lair, and when naggy hit me with an ae I didn't get banished. I posted it in the petition forum but as we all talked about it I didn't know if it worked like the death touches not happening until you had LOS, or the assist aggro perhaps not working the same for banishment as normal aggro but regardless I petitioned. I wasn't about to halt the raid to allow TR to gather people in solb and gank Naggy. And I had 24 people 52 and below there so it wasn't like we led a lvl 60 raid to nagafen with the purpose of exploiting anything. I logged off Shaere for the 51 mage and that was it. Your remarks that we took level 60s up there abusing a bug in the banish system is idiotic and typical. The first time we rush an alt raid to Nagafen and we get the kill we MUST be cheating right? This more of the 'competition' that you speak of? If you must know we decided to head to fear and help BDA/divinity out rather then make our play on nagafen first. But TR engages CT just before we zone in so we were unable to help. Could just be a coincidence and timing that they got CT in the nick of time and it just worked out that way. Then we started figuring out what alts we had available and mains 52 and lower online. Heck I logged on my 51 mage for the fight and wasn't on Shaere, who is more dps then any 51 mage. But someone else gets something you want and now it has to be hax? And it must be me using hacks also right? If you want to find meq2/seq use, look at your mates but don't look at me. I'm simply better then you and the rest, always have been. I have yet to run into my match as far as being a monk, or perhaps more specifically a puller. I'm told Sochin was the real deal, and Loke seems to be top notch but for the sake of ego I have encountered none better.
You are damn straight I took lvl 60s up there to help clear fg, buff, and handle the trains I was waiting for. We did have members lvl 52 plus there to support and yes they were supposed to try landing a spell, get banished and run back. For the record I saw several TR members there also 52 plus not being banished.
Who are you arsenalpow or ring? Loke is Loke, I am shaere who are you? Some rogue named Muhammet? I saw a few TR members up there with us, but other guilds weren't represented and I find it odd you refer to both Taken and TR as if you were in neither.
If it in fact there is an argument which I haven't been made aware of, the TR people made only a few comments after it. One was odd after I linked the loot in guildchat where Quez said if we handed over the bag they wouldn't check FTE and it was odd because I remember thinking he said that as I linked it in guildchat. Then Uaellean asked if anyone needed a res, Nedala? offered ports at the end and that was pretty much it.
Clarify this part please. Are you saying Quez is a GM? Was he Xzerion's alt snooping your guildchat or was he Xzerion's alt looking at the DB and knowing what Naggy had beforehand?
Swarws
08-14-2011, 03:11 AM
Lol, btw that was me on Quez and it was a joke.. one of your members link it in say or something and it was the only decent item that dropped.. We are pretty sure we got FTE but if not it was just fun leeroying from zone in to try and get the kill.. we had enough in zone to kill it ourselfs when we tagged it so not like we weren't ready for him or anything.
Perfect Creature
ITT: Terrible guilds and their players defend sitting on spawnpoints as a "tactic" rather than the pathetic bullshit that it really is.
Omg Harrison said something I agree with. SOUND THE ALARM :D
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-14-2011, 03:16 AM
No I am saying it struck me as odd he said that when it dropped. It is entirely possible it was an offhand comment being that they were after said item, but I would expect people to guess about a CoF. I asked and was told I only linked it in guild so there are only a few explanations some harmless, some not. I am not claiming any GM involvement or Xzerion or whatever crap you come up with. So it came down to he knew because:
He didn't he just had a lucky guess or made an offhand remark that hit the target.
He asked someone what dropped and got a reply fast, I mean almost as fast as it took me to link it using the link all button.
He saw our guildchat.
He knew what the mob had.
I was just wondering out loud, how did he know? And edit: Swarws just answered someone said it in say, but I didn't see it, but will check fraps we had. I remember doing a /who and seeing what 17 or so TR in zone but I also know 12 people running from zone-in doesn't count.
Swarws
08-14-2011, 03:19 AM
Fingers of FURY.... Ask Loke's wife...
Edit.. We got ---> 12 <---- of the team online.. Its time to slay the dragon..
I 100% can kill Nagafen with 12 or less people.. Hell Ill do it with 6.. and fuck i can hold Nagafen with 3 people all day till more run from zone in..
Perfect Creature
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-14-2011, 03:29 AM
I am not saying you lack the skill in killing nagafen with low numbers. I am saying that 'holding' or 'kiting' a mob with a person or 2 While your raid runs up has been addressed here. Was it DA and someone with nagafen when it came up? Someone 'holding' Nagafen at the door as the raid ran up or people logged in and tried to claim the mob over a full raid force right at him? Anyway the decision was you can't kite or 'hold' a 'mob' if your force isn't there ready to engage in an attempt to stall or claim 'FTE'. Am I correct in that assumption, or close? Please clarify, I am sure some people that were there can speak more intelligently on the actual happenings that day.
Swarws
08-14-2011, 03:35 AM
Im not sure on the ruling now a days.. I just got back after a few month break, but can you not have like a warrior tanking a mob with a few clerics healing him while more people enter the zone? Yea you cant glitch the mob or use the leash but if you have someone tanking it and actively fighting the mob regardless of the number of people? But this is besides the point..
More funny tinfoil hats please!
Perfect creature
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-14-2011, 03:54 AM
Lol, btw that was me on Quez and it was a joke.. one of your members link it in say or something and it was the only decent item that dropped.. We are pretty sure we got FTE but if not it was just fun leeroying from zone in to try and get the kill.. we had enough in zone to kill it ourselfs when we tagged it so not like we weren't ready for him or anything.
Perfect Creature
No one linked it in say, the only links were in guildchat. I just went over the fraps several times from the moment the mob died to the moment you made the remark.
I wasn't paying attention to say, but I just looked at my logs and no one said anything in say. It was linked in our guild chat by someone other than Swarws which is where he must have gotten it:
[Sun Aug 14 00:58:42 2011] [player's name] tells the guild, 'Blight, Hammer of the ScourgeHierophant`s CrookTreasure Hunter`s Satchel'
For a comparison of time:
[Sun Aug 14 00:57:19 2011] Lord Nagafen has been slain by Mobu!
So we found out about loot approximately a minute and a half after he was killed.
Edited the name out because I I'm not sure if it could some how be linked to someone in your guild who told that person - don't wanna put anyone on blast or get anyone in trouble for sharing info.
As far as what went down - I actually had FTE (was first and only person hit by initial fire based AE, was feared, and first melee hits were on Mcjagger. I can pull the logs of that too if you want, but need to go pick up a friend from the bars in a minute so not gonna do it now. I was grouped with a bard and two clerics, all 52 and under (which is more than enough to engage with considering we had at least 20 in zone enroute to the lair).
Disclaimer: the rest of this post is all personal opinion - I don't speak for anyone in TR but myself, but this is my perspective of what went down at naggy...
Honestly Shaere, for what seemed like the majority (definitely the vocal majority) going to Naggy was less about getting Naggy and more about messing with you (this is just the members I heard in TS, I can't speak for the leadership). Naggy and Vox really aren't that high up on our list of mobs to kill, and the turn out for them is generally weak. We went straight from Gore to Vox, from what I think was 41 at Gore, less than half of those people bothered to switch over for Vox (due to general disinterest from what I could tell). However, when the guild whose guild leader is on these forums day in and day out blaming TR for everything wrong with this server and bad mouthing its membership, it is understandable that a large portion of our member base was excited at the prospect of fucking with you.
Even after you blatantly KS'd what was (according to the current rules) our mob, a lot of people were pushing our leadership (who seemed reluctant given the loot) to petition not necessarily because we wanted the loot, but again, to mess with you. Although, again, a petition was completely justified as there is zero doubt in my mind that we had FTE since I was the player on the character (Jhahl) who actually got FTE - I was the only person in the lair and like I said, my logs show that I was the only person hit by the initial AE - and if you don't want to count the AE, again, Mcjagger was the first person to be engaged in melee after I was feared (he was the bard in my group).
Notice how we worked with BDA on a Naggy, or tonight, after sniping Draco, we offered the loot to the other guilds in the zone because we didn't need it. It is because those guilds aren't blowing up these forums spitting hate and disdain our way. Yea, when a target is up, we roll into the zone and if it isn't engaged, we're going to do everything in our power to engage it as soon as possible - but that leads back to the fact that we're competitive and like the prospect of racing other guilds to get the kill - it is why we raid. Like I said with Draco tonight - BDA and Div were in zone and we ended up getting it - not because we dislike those guilds (quite the contrary actually), but because we like to raid.
Maybe if you spent more time focusing on you and your guild and a bit less on what TR is doing, we wouldn't be so motivated by the prospect of messing with you - hell, maybe you'd even find that most of us are generally laid back people who aren't out to fuck anyone over, we're just out to play the game and have a good time.
EDIT: Logs of me being only one in range for first AE...
[Sun Aug 14 00:55:55 2011] Tixel tells the guild, 'He isnt agro yet'
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:02 2011] Item is out of charges.
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:02 2011] Your body combusts as the lava hits you. You have taken 500 points of damage.
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:02 2011] Your ultravision fades.
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:07 2011] Kenjo tells the guild, 'LFG'
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:09 2011] You lose control of yourself!
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:09 2011] You flee in terror.
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:13 2011] Ilvx's spell fizzles!
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:14 2011] Ilvx begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:16 2011] Wobble begins to cast a spell.
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:16 2011] Lord Nagafen claws Mcjagger for 192 points of damage.
[Sun Aug 14 00:56:16 2011] Lord Nagafen bashes Mcjagger for 87 points of damage.
What it would have looked like had anyone else been in range:
[Sun Aug 07 16:46:07 2011] Bigsandwich's body combusts as the lava hits them..
[Sun Aug 07 16:46:07 2011] Mcjagger's body combusts as the lava hits them..
[Sun Aug 07 16:46:07 2011] Your body combusts as the lava hits you. You have taken 500 points of damage.
So yea, pretty sure that counts as Taken blatantly KSing TR.
Eccezan
08-14-2011, 04:31 AM
I wasn't paying attention to say, but I just looked at my logs and no one said anything in say. It was linked in our guild chat by someone other than Swarws which is where he must have gotten it:
[Sun Aug 14 00:58:42 2011] [player's name] tells the guild, 'Blight, Hammer of the ScourgeHierophant`s CrookTreasure Hunter`s Satchel'
For a comparison of time:
[Sun Aug 14 00:57:19 2011] Lord Nagafen has been slain by Mobu!
So we found out about loot approximately a minute and a half after he was killed.
Edited the name out because I I'm not sure if it could some how be linked to someone in your guild who told that person - don't wanna put anyone on blast or get anyone in trouble for sharing info.
As far as what went down - I actually had FTE (was first and only person hit by initial fire based AE, was feared, and first melee hits were on Mcjagger. I can pull the logs of that too if you want, but need to go pick up a friend from the bars in a minute so not gonna do it now. I was grouped with a bard and two clerics, all 52 and under (which is more than enough to engage with considering we had at least 20 in zone enroute to the lair).
Disclaimer: the rest of this post is all personal opinion - I don't speak for anyone in TR but myself, but this is my perspective of what went down at naggy...
Honestly Shaere, for what seemed like the majority (definitely the vocal majority) going to Naggy was less about getting Naggy and more about messing with you (this is just the members I heard in TS, I can't speak for the leadership). Naggy and Vox really aren't that high up on our list of mobs to kill, and the turn out for them is generally weak. We went straight from Gore to Vox, from what I think was 41 at Gore, less than half of those people bothered to switch over for Vox (due to general disinterest from what I could tell). However, when the guild whose guild leader is on these forums day in and day out blaming TR for everything wrong with this server and bad mouthing its membership, it is understandable that a large portion of our member base was excited at the prospect of fucking with you.
Even after you blatantly KS'd what was (according to the current rules) our mob, a lot of people were pushing our leadership (who seemed reluctant given the loot) to petition not necessarily because we wanted the loot, but again, to mess with you. Although, again, a petition was completely justified as there is zero doubt in my mind that we had FTE since I was the player on the character (Jhahl) who actually got FTE - I was the only person in the lair and like I said, my logs show that I was the only person hit by the initial AE - and if you don't want to count the AE, again, Mcjagger was the first person to be engaged in melee after I was feared (he was the bard in my group).
Notice how we worked with BDA on a Naggy, or tonight, after sniping Draco, we offered the loot to the other guilds in the zone because we didn't need it. It is because those guilds aren't blowing up these forums spitting hate and disdain our way. Yea, when a target is up, we roll into the zone and if it isn't engaged, we're going to do everything in our power to engage it as soon as possible - but that leads back to the fact that we're competitive and like the prospect of racing other guilds to get the kill - it is why we raid. Like I said with Draco tonight - BDA and Div were in zone and we ended up getting it - not because we dislike those guilds (quite the contrary actually), but because we like to raid.
Maybe if you spent more time focusing on you and your guild and a bit less on what TR is doing, we wouldn't be so motivated by the prospect of messing with you - hell, maybe you'd even find that most of us are generally laid back people who aren't out to fuck anyone over, we're just out to play the game and have a good time.
In other words, Loke is saying that TR is just a bunch of dicks that like "messing" with folks trying for raid mobs and items that TR doesnt even need, but wants to race them to for the sake of showing the server the size of their joint e-peen. I guess your personal opinion is in line with the reality! Thanks for the clarification.
In other words, Loke is saying that TR is just a bunch of dicks that like "messing" with folks trying for raid mobs and items that TR doesnt even need, but wants to race them to for the sake of showing the server the size of their joint e-peen. I guess your personal opinion is in line with the reality! Thanks for the clarification.
No, we're a bunch of "dicks" that like messing with SHAERE.. subtle difference. "Folks" aren't on these forums every day shitting on us. Also, it is hilarious that someone from TMO would comment here given your guilds apparent strategy of "after wipe, have 1 or 2 people try to engage and get FTE as TR engages".. think it has happened what, 3 or 4 times now? Also, sick 15 minute Sev pull today. I think I could circle the entire zone of EJ three or four times in the time it took you to "pull" (see: kite) Sev after engaging with 7 players in the zone. How'd that work out for you?
Eccezan
08-14-2011, 04:43 AM
No, we're a bunch of dicks that like "messing" with SHAERE.. subtle difference. "Folks" aren't on these forums every day shitting on us. Also, it is hilarious that someone from TMO would comment here given your guilds apparent strategy of "after wipe, have 1 or 2 people try to engage and get FTE as TR engages".. think it has happened what, 3 or 4 times now? Also, sick 15 minute Sev pull today. I think I could circle the entire zone of EJ three or four times in the time it took you to "pull" (see: kite) Sev after engaging with 7 players in the zone. How'd that work out for you?
QQ to someone who cares about your plight.
Post about issues that don't remotely involve you or TMO more - it really shows how little you care.
Treats
08-14-2011, 05:13 AM
Notice how we worked with BDA on a Naggy, or tonight, after sniping Draco, we offered the loot to the other guilds in the zone because we didn't need it. It is because those guilds aren't blowing up these forums spitting hate and disdain our way. Yea, when a target is up, we roll into the zone and if it isn't engaged, we're going to do everything in our power to engage it as soon as possible - but that leads back to the fact that we're competitive and like the prospect of racing other guilds to get the kill - it is why we raid. Like I said with Draco tonight - BDA and Div were in zone and we ended up getting it - not because we dislike those guilds (quite the contrary actually), but because we like to raid.
Maybe if you spent more time focusing on you and your guild and a bit less on what TR is doing, we wouldn't be so motivated by the prospect of messing with you - hell, maybe you'd even find that most of us are generally laid back people who aren't out to fuck anyone over, we're just out to play the game and have a good time.
Jesus fucking christ. What guild DOES NOT have to worry about TR is doing when their mindset is to get the loots at all costs no matter what the situation. You just said it yourself. You sniped Draco from BDA/Divinty. That isn't competiton, thats completely fucked up.
So you kill him and offer the loot to them because "you don't need it." I suppose you can pat yourselves on the back for this. The thought of "Hey lets give these guys a shot at Draco/CT tonight, they will probably drop loot we don't really need anyway. They never really get a chance to kill any of the more difficult raid encounters here because we always beat them, but they beat us here tonight so lets just go" does not even cross any of your minds. Not even for one split fucking second.
IB/TR or whatever you want to call it started this shit a long time ago, sniping targets out from under people. Once other guilds found a way to counter this by sitting at the spawn point they were not very happy. Hence the current raid scene we have on P99.
polum6666
08-14-2011, 05:27 AM
I'll post since Loke seems to want it. You won't get a rant as of now but we had two count them two TR members behind us as we cleared the last few fire giants. Tixel and Archaex or something? When we moved up to engage Nagafen with our 29 players I believe it was 3 or 4 TR members come running up in en effort to snipe him I remember looking around seeing Archaex on the stairs, Quez something running up, Mcjagger down at the 4 spawn, a high elf magician in apothic running through 4 spawn, Uaelleun came running up to the fight as Nagafen was being fought. They had no more then a few players in the area and were running people up through soldungb in an effort to gather their forces. Now there wasn't trains or flames or anything but I can say they had no more then 3 or 4 people there and running people up as fast as they could as we moved up to engage. And I believe the whole aggro Naggy and try holding him as you ran your raid up thing has been covered but have heard nothing that indicated to me anyone in TR was flipping out about anything. we did run fraps and assign people to Tixel and Archaex, turned trading off and ignored them to prevent spam or trades and such, and assigned people to watch and handle possible trains but I didn't see anything otherthen the typical asshattery at the end.
If it in fact there is an argument I haven't been made aware of, the TR people made only a few comments after it. One was odd after I linked the loot in guildchat where Quez said if we handed over the bag they wouldn't check FTE and it was odd because I remember thinking he said that as I linked it in guildchat. Then Uaellean asked if anyone needed a res, and Nedala? offered ports at the end and that was pretty much it.
On 52 plus getting banished I had actually prepared for that by having the 52 plus bind nearby. I asked them to rush in, nuke tash or whatever get banished and gate back and rinse repeat. I, on Shaere, pulled naggys lair, and when naggy hit me with an ae I didn't get banished. I posted it in the petition forum but as we all talked about it I didn't know if it worked like the death touches not happening until you had LOS, or the assist aggro perhaps not working the same for banishment as normal aggro but regardless I petitioned. I wasn't about to halt the raid to allow TR to gather people in solb and gank Naggy. And I had 24 people 52 and below there so it wasn't like we led a lvl 60 raid to nagafen with the purpose of exploiting anything. I logged off Shaere for the 51 mage and that was it. Your remarks that we took level 60s up there abusing a bug in the banish system is idiotic and typical. The first time we rush an alt raid to Nagafen and we get the kill we MUST be cheating right? This more of the 'competition' that you speak of? If you must know we decided to head to fear and help BDA/divinity out rather then make our play on nagafen first. But TR engages CT just before we zone in so we were unable to help. Could just be a coincidence and timing that they got CT in the nick of time and it just worked out that way. Then we started figuring out what alts we had available and mains 52 and lower online. Heck I logged on my 51 mage for the fight and wasn't on Shaere, who is more dps then any 51 mage. But someone else gets something you want and now it has to be hax? And it must be me using hacks also right? If you want to find meq2/seq use, look at your mates but don't look at me. I'm simply better then you and the rest, always have been. I have yet to run into my match as far as being a monk, or perhaps more specifically a puller. I'm told Sochin was the real deal, and Loke seems to be top notch but for the sake of ego I have encountered none better.
You are damn straight I took lvl 60s up there to help clear fg, buff, and handle the trains I was waiting for. We did have members lvl 52 plus there to support and yes they were supposed to try landing a spell, get banished and run back. For the record I saw several TR members there also 52 plus not being banished.
Who are you arsenalpow or ring? Loke is Loke, I am shaere who are you? Some rogue named Muhammet? I saw a few TR members up there with us, but other guilds weren't represented and I find it odd you refer to both Taken and TR as if you were in neither.
Just quit posting you whiny little bitch
heelyaz89
08-14-2011, 06:44 AM
I prolly shouldn't get into this, but back in the "classic" everquest days it was not considered cool to come up and gank a mob that someone else had just spent all the time clearing to. This would have gotten you a one way ticket to server-wide disdain. Seems like common courtesy is just a myth in p99 tho :(
All in all seems more like the word "competition" is just a way to cover your asses and make yah feel better bout urselves :P
I have to say that issues like this do not offer a positive image of the p99 community. Suck it up and play nice children omg !!
Tibador
08-14-2011, 06:46 AM
If only the rules were enforced from day 1 with Dont be a "douchebag" then P99 might be a wonderful place to play these days but here we have it.
Skope
08-14-2011, 07:13 AM
If only the rules were enforced from day 1 with Dont be a "douchebag" then P99 might be a wonderful place to play these days but here we have it.
mmmmm... many more people would have been banned and the raid scene would be completely different. unfortunately it's the douchebags the run things here
bluejam
08-14-2011, 07:48 AM
Naggy wasn't about messing with anyone - we have a few loudmouths in TR, that's it.
So Which one is it?
Is it 15 to claim which you guys clearly did not have at naggy or First to engage Which you may or maynot of had? OR(as you guys have proven time and time again) is it the rule that best suits your needs when you accually do loose ?
Any other guild on this server has the common curtisy to atleast not leep frog and give the first person to make it a shot You guys however Dont even give that and then wonder why a lot of the people on this server just plain dont like IB/TR as a guild.I kind of wish this was classic EQ because your guild would of been blacklisted long ago.
Harrison
08-14-2011, 08:55 AM
So, recap:
Taken is clearing down to Naggy.
TR decides to fuck with them, for the sake of doing so, rather than let them have what they were there for BEFORE them.
Pathetic.
So Which one is it?
Both, read the rules:
Q: What classifies a mob as "Engaged"?
A: A mob is classified as engaged as long as it has aggro on at least one player.
Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.
Zenlina
08-14-2011, 09:57 AM
Yes we all know those rules are pretty out dated and stupid, but the real rules that most follow is to respect the other raids party if they are there first in force. Even though this isnt official rules, its what i believe most go by.
And if you are going to say stuff like TMO does this and that, i think it generally applies to TR only because we have to play at there shifty level to even the odds.
Bubbles
08-14-2011, 10:40 AM
by out competing you mean sitting in front of a computer longer than the other guys, right?
ITT: Terrible guilds and their players defend sitting on spawnpoints as a "tactic" rather than the pathetic bullshit that it really is.
It must be opposites day, because Slathar and Harrison did in a sentence each what no one else could do in 6+ pages of this mess.
YendorLootmonkey
08-14-2011, 12:40 PM
I prolly shouldn't get into this, but back in the "classic" everquest days it was not considered cool to come up and gank a mob that someone else had just spent all the time clearing to. This would have gotten you a one way ticket to server-wide disdain.
You don't already see the server-wide disdain here?
Jesus fucking christ. What guild DOES NOT have to worry about TR is doing when their mindset is to get the loots at all costs no matter what the situation. You just said it yourself. You sniped Draco from BDA/Divinty. That isn't competiton, thats completely fucked up.
So you kill him and offer the loot to them because "you don't need it." I suppose you can pat yourselves on the back for this. The thought of "Hey lets give these guys a shot at Draco/CT tonight, they will probably drop loot we don't really need anyway. They never really get a chance to kill any of the more difficult raid encounters here because we always beat them, but they beat us here tonight so lets just go" does not even cross any of your minds. Not even for one split fucking second.
(bolded the part that would be nice on this server from that guild, but probably just a pipe dream)
Lostprophets
08-14-2011, 12:56 PM
So yea, pretty sure that counts as Taken blatantly KSing TR.
Well, since you guys turned a server chat thread into a shit storm, I will add my Two Cents in here too.
How can a guild KS when you have 4 people, count it FOUR people in zone as we move up to engage? once our 29 was in aggro range and getting feared (not dying mind you) with your four people that's when the rest of your force started to run up past us. That right there makes me want to pull out and dust off the old (out-dated) First 15 card on y'all, or even say that you guys attempted to KS US and Failed, failed hard at that.
I was there, I got feared right away on my level 51 alt and saw all of your straggling members running in from the ramp leading to the room with 4 FG's in it after we cleared the FGs. As for the 4 that wanted to play the cool kids and try to leapfrog us, that's no where near raid force, let alone having a full guild engaged...that's just down right Douchebaggary.
Another thing I'm wondering now is, after getting confirmation from fraps if we ONLY linked the loot in /gu how does Swarws know literally at the same exact time what dropped and say give the bag up or we'll mark as "KS"? I can only imagine some things but I'm not going to get into that and stoop to your level.
Anyway, I got a feeling your all just mad Taken is getting targets now and beat you to something, so you're trying to chalk up the matter and try to switch the tables and say we're the bad guys..? I don't think so.
Put away the tin foil hats, come back to reality and accept your loss like big kids.
Better luck next time.
- Lostprophets
Well, since you guys turned a server chat thread into a shit storm, I will add my Two Cents in here too.
How can a guild KS when you have 4 people, count it FOUR people in zone as we move up to engage? once our 29 was in aggro range and getting feared (not dying mind you) with your four people that's when the rest of your force started to run up past us. That right there makes me want to pull out and dust off the old (out-dated) First 15 card on y'all, or even say that you guys attempted to KS US and Failed, failed hard at that.
I was there, I got feared right away on my level 51 alt and saw all of your straggling members running in from the ramp leading to the room with 4 FG's in it after we cleared the FGs. As for the 4 that wanted to play the cool kids and try to leapfrog us, that's no where near raid force, let alone having a full guild engaged...that's just down right Douchebaggary.
Another thing I'm wondering now is, after getting confirmation from fraps if we ONLY linked the loot in /gu how does Swarws know literally at the same exact time what dropped and say give the bag up or we'll mark as "KS"? I can only imagine some things but I'm not going to get into that and stoop to your level.
Anyway, I got a feeling your all just mad Taken is getting targets now and beat you to something, so you're trying to chalk up the matter and try to switch the tables and say we're the bad guys..? I don't think so.
Put away the tin foil hats, come back to reality and accept your loss like big kids.
Better luck next time.
- Lostprophets
Be a better a lawyer. First 15 only works on mobs that haven't spawned. It's first to engage on anything that's already up.
Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.
You were camping inside Naggy's lair on his spawn point with 15 when he spawned?
Feel free to reference this thread for any questions / concerns
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667
I would suggest they petition FTE and get your loot just because everyone in your guild is so ignorant on how the rules work. Teach you a lesson about trying to run with the big boys, you know??
Lostprophets
08-14-2011, 01:07 PM
Whomever you are Ring, I'm not trying to Lawyer anyone.
Let me dumb it down for you...I'm straight up saying TR is a bunch of Leapfrogging dick bags and failed at Leapfrogging for once. (I was trying to be nice about it though.)
You can't engage a target with 4 people, no matter what mob it is. Lets see someone Engage Trak with 4 and how far it will get.
Barkingturtle
08-14-2011, 01:09 PM
Teach you a lesson about trying to run with the big boys, you know??
No need to call TR fat. Let's keep it civil.
arsenalpow
08-14-2011, 01:12 PM
So let me repeat what I said before, I watched slydexx and oblexis chain cast on Naggy, not just help clear out fire giants, chain cast on Nagafen and not get banished. Is this just considered "not working as intended" or is it blatant exploitation of a known bug?
Skope
08-14-2011, 01:16 PM
Leapfrogging is also against the rules, fyi. If you're clearing the FGs on the way to naggy's spawn and he's up and another guild walks right by you to get to him there's probably no clearer instance of leapfrogging. Vox's lair is different because you can sneak your way thru with lev so there's technically 2 ways right to her room but with nag's it's only one.
booter
08-14-2011, 01:20 PM
So much tinfoil hat up in here. Please keep thread on target. This isn't RnF.
Lostprophets
08-14-2011, 01:22 PM
So let me repeat what I said before, I watched slydexx and oblexis chain cast on Naggy, not just help clear out fire giants, chain cast on Nagafen and not get banished. Is this just considered "not working as intended" or is it blatant exploitation of a known bug?
So let me add Tixel, Uuallean (sp), and several other 60's from TR were there too...not getting banished, and were fully engaged as well, is that a case of exploitation?
How are we (Taken) supposed to know this shit, that was our First naggy kill, a lot of us never killed naggy prior to that on p99. Most all of the casters Bound in Solb for the purpose of banishing, Like a lot of people did on live.
@booter
That's impossible because once it was FIRST linked in guild we were talking about it in TS that it was weird Swarws knew right at the second we looted/linked it.
Harrison
08-14-2011, 01:24 PM
Is TR really trying to justify being complete dickwads? I thought you guys had more integrity than that, but I guess I was wrong.
Taken was clearly on the way to Nagafen, and you, (not even in proper numbers to engage in the first place) showed up after them, and tried to leapfrog them just to be massive pricks?
Disgusting.
arsenalpow
08-14-2011, 01:25 PM
So next time Nagafen or Vox spawn should 52+ characters even engage since banishment isn't working correctly? Should there be penalties for engaging at 52+ ? I'm just trying to see where the line is drawn.
YendorLootmonkey
08-14-2011, 01:26 PM
Is TR really trying to justify being complete dickwads? I thought you guys had more integrity than that, but I guess I was wrong.
Taken was clearly on the way to Nagafen, and you, (not even in proper numbers to engage in the first place) showed up after them, and tried to leapfrog them just to be massive pricks?
Disgusting.
It's "competition", yo. Except we all thought they were talking about mobilization. They're competing to be the biggest pricks.
druziil
08-14-2011, 01:30 PM
This seems like a fun post to be in!
This server is full of childish behavior. If you want the other kids toy dump sand on his head then take it. TMO and TR for the most part have this as their MO. But hey we are all here to relive our youth so why not act like brats.
BDA doesn't game like this and we don't let the peole who do bother us. We don't have a zerg force but still manage to kill content that the majority of the server hasn't or can't. On last night's restart who killed a kunark dragon? BDA did. We got lucky the reset came during one of our predetermend raid time. Maybe 1 Fay kill is unimpresive to you sparkly sockshitters but that didn't make it anyless fun. Especially when we down ot first atempt with 23 people (and maybe 4 of those being 60s).
As we continue to get levels and more experience we will go toe to toe with anyone if the situation allows it.
Take Cazic as another example. BDA and Div team up for fear break and clear. TR , happy to step on the backs of the huddled masses to propell themselves to P99 legendom, zone in with twice our force, start to kill some things and train others (even once through our raid) and zerg kill draco, and then "snipe" (as they label it) Cazic. Is this respectable behavior? Not in my eyes. Lets face it giving away your rotting garbage does not a Robin Hood make. Divinty may have been intimidated by your appearence in zone enough that they bail to do something else. But BDA stuck around and made FTE, with the misfourtune of our two pullers getting double DTed you get your kill. Grats to you. You see us running to RnF?. Not really because it is a waste of time to try to become you. We play our way. So do you and so does TMO. There is no right or wrong way to play this game only the way you enjoy it. Are you guys enjoying it?
The only truly dissapointing thing that happened last night was the shit in SolB. Both Taken and TR engage a mob with characters they know should be banished during the fight. Some know it's been bugged and others were hoping it was. This is exploiting in my opinion and should be looked into by the staff.
Skope
08-14-2011, 01:31 PM
It's "competition", yo. Except we all thought they were talking about mobilization. They're competing to be the biggest pricks.
not all of them are, they just have a habit of grandfathering their dicks into officer positions.
Either way it looks like the community is biting back and seems to have had enough. I think the point that's being put across is rather clear and goes to show that it's the attitudes that have to change before the rules can be truly discussed =P
RIGHT LOKE?!?! RIGHT?!?! or are you going to keep ignoring me? btw, when you decided to give up that draco loot, was it a bone razor and a necro staff? did a BCG drop? no?
If naggy isn't banishing properly i'd be willing to wager that yet again TR didn't report a known bug (tin foil hat), which for anyone who's been here a while shouldn't be that surprising. took 2-3 months before we were on 5 in posky before anyone even knew about the fact that the vanqs and repop mobs weren't working properly and it was nowhere to be found in the petition section (weird). This also wasn't the only posky bug that was exploited to death to advance on the islands. meanwhile both DA and IB were up there for that time and didn't say a word about these things. There's a staggering difference in the approach to the game between the top 2 guilds and the rest of the server, where those 2 guilds try to attain #1 at any cost (even stepping on toes, cheating, MQing, SEQing, duping, etc) and the others (though they have had cheaters, certainly) try to play the game for fun and don't look to come across as dicks to the rest of the community. It is kinda nice to see people are realizing it now, though. Long time coming really
YendorLootmonkey
08-14-2011, 01:35 PM
The only truly dissapointing thing that happened last night was the shit in SolB. Both Taken and TR engage a mob with characters they know should be banished during the fight. Some know it's been bugged and others were hoping it was. This is exploiting in my opinion and should be looked into by the staff.
They were probably just going by this post in this thread and decided to see if "it was a myth":
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=361681&postcount=128
arsenalpow
08-14-2011, 01:47 PM
pics yo
Nedala
08-14-2011, 01:59 PM
@ Lostprophets you can engage nagafen with 2 people. A tank and a cleric, and probably hold him a few minutes which would have been long enough to the rest of the raidforce to arrive. And we couldnt care less about a lost naggy.
@ Whoever whines about fear: There wasnt much stuff cleared at all when we zoned in, do you really expect us to give you the kill just because you zoned into the plane a bit earlier than we did? Thats just not how eq raiding works.
@ Everyone who whines about leapfrogging: its NOT against the rules, it was common behavour on live at the top tier raiding, probably not at the second tier raiding most of you whitnessed.
@ The majority of taken members: i personally wanted you to get the loot, i think you deserved that naggy, if shaere wasnt such a tinfoilhat wearing dick i dont think anyone would have bothered and try to get FTE. Anyway IMO it wasnt necesarry to push the rules, if i was the one to decide it, i wouldnt have bothered to petition for fte, but im just a member, sorry.
@ Everyone who thinks we got the loot links an illegal way: SERIOUSLY?? is your tinfoilhat really THAT big???
we couldnt care less about a lost naggy.
Which is why you have an alt army parked in solb. Yeah, you don't care at all! :rolleyes:
Nedala
08-14-2011, 02:07 PM
I dont say we dont care about naggy. I say we dont care about one lost naggy, during a full server repop. Lostprophet made it sound like we were all like "omg taken is going to get naggy oh nooo", when infact i was kinda happy for them to get it. And we dont have an alt army parked at solb :)
@ Lostprophets you can engage nagafen with 2 people. A tank and a cleric, and probably hold him a few minutes which would have been long enough to the rest of the raidforce to arrive. And we couldnt care less about a lost naggy.
Bullshit. Either you engage with a force that can kill the mob, or you can't. You can't with a warrior and cleric. gtfo
As for the rest. First to get to the mob, attacks=win. The fact that people have taken it to the point of sitting on fucking spawns while being logged in 10+ hours is pretty fucking sad.
Trying to make up for the failure of not being in the "uber" guilds back on live when you were 15,and doing it now when you're 25+ years old is fucking shameful.
Tiggles
08-14-2011, 02:11 PM
It is unfortunate that TMO has to sink to the level of TR but for us to compete we have to sink to the lowest common denominator to get mobs.
I apologize to any other guild and we honestly dislike to TR comparison being made but we understand WHY its being made.
I hope in the coming months when the raid scene has calmed down a bit and if VP opens we can all step back a bit with the ultra-competitiveness and try and be a little kinder to the smaller guilds.
TMO is in the process of finishing our Naggy alt force but i doubt we will put too much interest in it compared to the guilds who are trying to get into the raid scene or TR who is just killing them to stifle other guilds.
Tiggles
08-14-2011, 02:14 PM
@ The majority of taken members: i personally wanted you to get the loot, i think you deserved that naggy, if shaere wasnt such a tinfoilhat wearing dick i dont think anyone would have bothered and try to get FTE. Anyway IMO it wasnt necesarry to push the rules, if i was the one to decide it, i wouldnt have bothered to petition for fte, but im just a member, sorry.
Remember folks its YOUR fault TR took your Naggy, They WANTED you to have that dragon they really did they only called in there GMs to rule lawyer for loot when someone showed them disrespect so they had to punish you for your insolence.
Skope
08-14-2011, 02:15 PM
It is unfortunate that TMO has to sink to the level of TR but for us to compete we have to sink to the lowest common denominator to get mobs.
I apologize to any other guild and we honestly dislike to TR comparison being made but we understand WHY its being made.
I hope in the coming months when the raid scene has calmed down a bit and if VP opens we can all step back a bit with the ultra-competitiveness and try and be a little kinder to the smaller guilds.
TMO is in the process of finishing our Naggy alt force but i doubt we will put too much interest in it compared to the guilds who are trying to get into the raid scene or TR who is just killing them to stifle other guilds.
looking forward to VP to change the way it looks now isn't exactly a favor, or hopeful, or even addressing the issues at hand. That's sort of saying "hey, maybe things will change later even though things haven't really changed much in a year+" you know? it's literally the same old song... so instead of being dicks NOW and *hoping* that you won't be dicks later maybe we can change the fact that you're being dicks at all?
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-14-2011, 02:17 PM
I don't wear a tinfoil hat, I just think coincidences should be coincidences. Not an every day occurrence, if it strikes me as odd there is usually a reason why. I make note of most of them and try and reason why but some things just strike you as being too perfect or too coincidental. Does it mean there is some grand conspiracy? Who knows? Apply this to 9-11. I'm not the one who started the conspiracy theories here, or was involved in any of them on this server to start I didn't even log in here until Jun 2010. But I like a good portion of others have played the game long enough know when it is just too perfect or convenient to be legitimate or possibly shady. You can't say 'coincidence' when it happens over and over and over, before long you realize there is a reason for it. So I guess I wear a tinfoil hat when I claim you guys are just fucking with other guilds or choosing targets you don't need just to screw with other guilds? There is a distinct difference between just wanting to kill shit and wanting to kill it to screw with someone else. But don't claim it is something new to screw with me this shit was going on for a long time here.
An example: When you are sitting at fire giants and someone comes up through the lava chute and sits across the lava watching you and all of a sudden ldcs come running up and that person has just logged out so they jump you. Coincidence they chose that moment to come up and sit there and log producing the same effect as someone aggroing a ldc and running up so pathing brings it through the stone spider room and up there? Is that a tin foil hat to conclude they trained you?
And I as many others here are tired of being shit on through 'legal' use of the server rules here. After enough time of constantly being sniped or trained or had mobs sniped I have had enough. I have unloaded on non-TR members as well but a few things here that strike me. I don't think Loke was intentionally trying to patronize or demean anyone with his post but I found the casual nature of the attitude upsetting. Some of you will know what I mean but what I expected was "I didn't mean anything condescending or patronizing learn2chill." Instead the response is "let's go fuck with Shaere". Or am I wearing a tin-foil hat and jumping to conclusions again?
I also can reasonably conclude that Lady Vox died by the hands of TR before Nagafen. I did see lvl 60 TR members there in soldungb to help with Nagafen, and I see that as normal to be expected. Someone wearing a tin-foil hate could hypothesize that perhaps TR already knew Vox hadn't banished because they had already killed her. Is that a reasonable assumption or wild speculation? If so that means someone knew that Nagafen most likely wasn't also going to banish which leads me to ask if it was it possible people that knew of the bug were in place with the intent to 'catch' us? That they knew of the bug and were set up to find or see something we were unaware of and use it out of context or misrepresent it in an effort to smear us or muddy the waters? Either to get us in trouble, to ensure they got the loot, or both so that the attention is not on the 'douchebaggery' that was occurring? Are you wearing the tin-foil hats now? Does Taken have someone in the guild who worked on that specific part of the patch and knew about the l33t hax? And in our brilliance we decided to go to hate, sky, and fear before that and save our l33t hax for when TR was there along with people looking for that bug? I also noted I didn't see pets being feared. Normally under level 52 I see people and pets being feared and walking down to the 4 spawn area feared but I didn't notice any of that this time.
You want to change perception change your actions. Because as I said before every chance you have to rise above you don't. You claim you like competition in mobilization yet when the competition beats you to Nagafen do you sit back and say good job? Or do you attempt to leapfrog in a deliberate attempt to grief? You admit to griefing and show you don 't care about competition or you would do as we do. We see VD in sky ready for Dojorn, we prep for the pull. I COULD pull but we allow VD the first attempt because they got their first. When we find out BDA/Div is in fear we offer to help, instead of roll in and snip the mob.
Nedala
08-14-2011, 02:18 PM
It is unfortunate that TMO has to sink to the level of TR but for us to compete we have to sink to the lowest common denominator to get mobs.
TMO trained jugs on us yesterday during trak. Tmo kited sev to prevent us from pulling it. TMO trys to get FTE with 1-2 people on almost every raidmob we engage.
I dont think you can sink any further.
Skope
08-14-2011, 02:22 PM
TMO trained jugs on us yesterday during trak. Tmo kited sev to prevent us from pulling it. TMO trys to get FTE with 1-2 people on almost every raidmob we engage.
I dont think you can sink any further.
forget all of that, the point is you're both stooping to levels that are stupid and you're both bitching about it (and the rest of the server) and yet failing to do anything about it. it's pathetic and it boils down to the fact that you act like children, skirting rules wherever you can and sometimes getting pinned down when you can't. it's not healthy for the entire server, nevermind your social lives
Nedala
08-14-2011, 02:22 PM
Bullshit. Either you engage with a force that can kill the mob, or you can't. You can't with a warrior and cleric. gtfo
what are you talking about? Theres been numerous times where 1-5 people engaged naggy and held him until the raidforce arrived.
I remember a naggy kill where DA had only a few people holding naggy for over 10mins until their raidforce arrived, and it was a respectable kill. Not sure what you talking about.
It goes back to 15 men are there rule. Or does TR only claim that when it benefits them?
Now if no other guild is there, sure why not. But using 2-3 people to attack a mob to get FTE? It doesn't work like that.
PureLo
08-14-2011, 02:30 PM
i "love" all the generalizations being made about a guild hardly anyone really KNOWS about (saying things like ALL their members this and ALL their members that) let alone them beings guilds that these "competitive top guilds"(the one's doing shady garbage things) want/try to recruit from.
Pretty messed up circle admitting you want to do stupid stuff to other guilds, yet behind the scenes you talk to their members to join you so you can continue doing much of the same to other guilds. I don't know why anyone would want to leave and join people who admittedly do things to mess with their current guild.
Not to mention all the incorrect accusations/assumptions being made from random 3rd parties not directly involved making what actually happened be a mere spec compared to the picture that has been painted (blown up) about it now.
Thanks to all those who do exploit and whine to get your way though... should do wonders for your self esteem.
Nedala
08-14-2011, 02:30 PM
15men rule applys only when a mob didnt spawn.
I dont say we dont care about naggy. I say we dont care about one lost naggy, during a full server repop. Lostprophet made it sound like we were all like "omg taken is going to get naggy oh nooo", when infact i was kinda happy for them to get it. And we dont have an alt army parked at solb :)
Doesn't sound at all like you guys were kinda happy for them to get it, real talk in game bull shit aside. Rofl
YendorLootmonkey
08-14-2011, 02:41 PM
what are you talking about? Theres been numerous times where 1-5 people engaged naggy and held him until the raidforce arrived.
I remember a naggy kill where DA had only a few people holding naggy for over 10mins until their raidforce arrived, and it was a respectable kill. Not sure what you talking about.
Q: What about a raid mob being indefinitely kited or occupied?
A: It is now against server policy to indefinitely kite, or otherwise keep occupied, a raid mob without intention of bringing it to your raid camp. You either bring it to your raid, die, or zone out. Obvious stall-kiting of a raid mob, especially in situations to prevent engagement by another guild, will result in disciplinary actions against the kiter's account, and possibly their raid/guild leadership.
Doesn't just include kiting a mob.
Lostprophets
08-14-2011, 02:51 PM
15men rule applys only when a mob didnt spawn.
It did back when Transcendence and IB were duking it out, why is the rule uplifted/changed now that TR isn't IB anymore?
YendorLootmonkey
08-14-2011, 02:58 PM
@ Everyone who whines about leapfrogging: its NOT against the rules, it was common behavour on live at the top tier raiding, probably not at the second tier raiding most of you whitnessed.
These rules are created to encourage fair play and competition between raiding guilds. Be courteous and respectful of the other raiding guilds. The following rules apply in raid situations, and are enforced during any disputes.
The problem is that you clearly can't fathom how sniping CT from another guild, or rushing 3-4 people to FTE Naggy over Taken is not being "courteous and respectful of the other raiding guilds." Here's what the rest of the server (I am 100% certain I can speak for the rest of them with confidence in this regard) would like to see, based on the following:
As the leader of IB/TR my guild has always been held to the server rules and expected to take the high road. Suggesting that I dont put the server first is a complete joke and even a bigger knock on the character of anyone who suggest that I dont.
I would humbly request that Xzerion stick to his word in that quote and direct TR to, in fact, take the high road and stop leapfrogging other guilds just because it's "not against the rules".
Now I have to tread carefully here, because Xzerion is also a dev and I don't want to be accused of flaming a dev or whatever... I am speaking strictly to him as leadership of TR based on the claim he made above in another thread, that's all.
Stop leapfrogging other guilds because your leadership advertised that you take the high road and that he puts the server first. I think we would all agree that putting the server first includes making it a nicer place to play FOR ALL OF US -- i.e. when my guild (or any guild) is clearing Fear to take on CT, we should not have to worry about TR coming in and sniping CT on us, that TR would actually take the high road as your leader claims you are expected to, respect the raid force in zone, and at least let us attempt CT. If we fail, fine... grab it. You're so convinced no guild can do what you do anyway, what have you got to lose?
If they mobilized faster than you, let them try it. That's the competition you wanted. This "they actually did beat us.... holy shit... well, F that.. snipe the mob from them anyway" BS has got to stop. From whichever guilds are doing it.
Badmartigan
08-14-2011, 03:01 PM
what are you talking about? Theres been numerous times where 1-5 people engaged naggy and held him until the raidforce arrived.
I remember a naggy kill where DA had only a few people holding naggy for over 10mins until their raidforce arrived, and it was a respectable kill. Not sure what you talking about.
both sides have done this...
why is everyone so addicted to calling the kettle black ?
Skope
08-14-2011, 03:03 PM
Yendor, he doesn't run that guild. I mean, technically he runs it, but he does the whole durison thing where they don't lead the raids and sit back and run things from afar. Xzerion isn't the problem, it's the lack of xzerion that's the problem.
YendorLootmonkey
08-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Yendor, he doesn't run that guild. I mean, technically he runs it, but he does the whole durison thing where they don't lead the raids and sit back and run things from afar. Xzerion isn't the problem, it's the lack of xzerion that's the problem.
I don't care. He took accountability for it with that quote.
Skope
08-14-2011, 03:08 PM
not all of them are, they just have a habit of grandfathering their dicks into officer positions.
not that i disagree with you, it's just hard to account for everyone's behavior when your guild is that big. of course the guild is that big because the rules *still* favor larger guilds (thanks for that, btw) and it nips them in the butt repeatedly. I think they can do quite a bit to change the way they approach the game though, as that's probably their, and TMO's, biggest issue at the moment.
SupaflyIRL
08-14-2011, 03:18 PM
not that i disagree with you, it's just hard to account for everyone's behavior when your guild is that big. of course the guild is that big because the rules *still* favor larger guilds (thanks for that, btw) and it nips them in the butt repeatedly. I think they can do quite a bit to change the way they approach the game though, as that's probably their, and TMO's, biggest issue at the moment.
The phrase is "nip in the bud" which means stopping something before it starts, the phrase you are looking for is "bites them in the ass". You're welcome.
Nedala
08-14-2011, 03:51 PM
both sides have done this...
why is everyone so addicted to calling the kettle black ?
i never claimed we didnt.
@ yendor: sorry but zoning into fear first, on a server repop isnt out-mobilizing. It would be very lame if we werent even allowed to compete for CT just cause a guild zoned in earlier than us. I remember when DA,IB and even Divinity leapfrogged us (DW/Remedy) in fear and hate numerous times on inny, draco, maestro and CT, and i always found its totally legit. I didnt enjoy it, but they just were better than we were and got the kills most of the time. Thats real competition imo.
I wouldnt even call it leapfrogg what we did in fear yesterday, as almost all mobs were still up.
Naggy is a different story and id prefere to just leave that one to taken, like i said.
Stop leapfrogging other guilds because your leadership advertised that you take the high road and that he puts the server first. I think we would all agree that putting the server first includes making it a nicer place to play FOR ALL OF US -- i.e. when my guild (or any guild) is clearing Fear to take on CT, we should not have to worry about TR coming in and sniping CT on us, that TR would actually take the high road as your leader claims you are expected to, respect the raid force in zone, and at least let us attempt CT. If we fail, fine... grab it. You're so convinced no guild can do what you do anyway, what have you got to lose?
If they mobilized faster than you, let them try it. That's the competition you wanted. This "they actually did beat us.... holy shit... well, F that.. snipe the mob from them anyway" BS has got to stop. From whichever guilds are doing it.
Why do you think mobilizing ends at the zone-in line? It ends at engaging the actual raid mob. Just because you zoned first doesn't mean you own it and they should give you free reign to take your time to engage. If you truly out mobilized them show it in the results (first to engage) rather than stomping your feet and screaming about how it was your mob and how unfair life is.
No one who has killed CT recently (well, just TR the pass couple of months I suppose) actually clears Fear. They train mobs, engage and kill him before they wipe. If your guild can't do CT without clearing the whole zone maybe you need to work on that instead of whining about being "sniped".
SupaflyIRL
08-14-2011, 04:18 PM
Why do you think mobilizing ends at the zone-in line? It ends at engaging the actual raid mob. Just because you zoned first doesn't mean you own it and they should give you free reign to take your time to engage. If you truly out mobilized them show it in the results (first to engage) rather than stomping your feet and screaming about how it was your mob and how unfair life is.
No one who has killed CT recently (well, just TR the pass couple of months I suppose) actually clears Fear. They train mobs, engage and kill him before they wipe. If your guild can't do CT without clearing the whole zone maybe you need to work on that instead of whining about being "sniped".
Realized last night, being on the receiving end of this, that I don't have the stomach for this stuff anymore.
Klyre
08-14-2011, 04:24 PM
Why do you think mobilizing ends at the zone-in line? It ends at engaging the actual raid mob. Just because you zoned first doesn't mean you own it and they should give you free reign to take your time to engage. If you truly out mobilized them show it in the results (first to engage) rather than stomping your feet and screaming about how it was your mob and how unfair life is.
No one who has killed CT recently (well, just TR the pass couple of months I suppose) actually clears Fear. They train mobs, engage and kill him before they wipe. If your guild can't do CT without clearing the whole zone maybe you need to work on that instead of whining about being "sniped".
Wow, I am always amazed at the excuses people give for lack of courtesy.
Tiggles
08-14-2011, 04:33 PM
Kinsawt and getsome are the problems with TR. They only care about being number one and will cheat exploit and be terrible to everyone in order to do this.
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-14-2011, 04:43 PM
Mobilizing ending at the raid mob always leads to trouble. There has to be a line drawn such as the raid at the bind corner in solb, or the bridge in traks lair. If your raid is sitting up outside Innys' room in hate. There has to be some line or else it just leads to chaos.
Fear is a different story I'll grant you but I don't agree with "if your guild can't zerg and kill him before you wipe" argument. It is the reality here unfortunately but that can change. On live we would not zone in if another guild was there but I don't see any issue with multiple guilds going for CT as it is a different situation. There does need to be a line though, when another guild kills half the zone you don't roll in and gank the mob.
bluejam
08-14-2011, 04:49 PM
@Shaere: Vox banishes. Naggy doesn't right now for some reason.
Shiftin
08-14-2011, 04:50 PM
Kinsawt and getsome are the problems with TR. They only care about being number one and will cheat exploit and be terrible to everyone in order to do this.
You really want to keep making lies and shit up outside of R&F? Do you want to talk about what TMO has done just within the last week? Keep your nonsense trolling in R&F.
PS thanks for the apps.
Bruman
08-14-2011, 04:51 PM
@ Everyone who whines about leapfrogging: its NOT against the rules, it was common behavour on live at the top tier raiding, probably not at the second tier raiding most of you whitnessed.
So because it's not in the rules means it's fine to be dicks?
How do you people not get this? Leapfrogging is a dick move. It's not about "rules" or "ZOMG IT HAPPENED ON MY SERVER ITS FAIR".
The point is - some guilds are trying to have the raid scene be a fun place, where guilds can get along, and not be dicks to one another. Some other guild(s) are using this to their advantage. We get it, you get it, but don't act like it's anything than you being 100% dicks. You shouldn't need GMs to babysit you to not be a dick.
nilbog
08-14-2011, 04:54 PM
Leapfrogging is a dick move. It's not about "rules" or "ZOMG IT HAPPENED ON MY SERVER ITS FAIR".
Truth.
On live server, whoever broke fear had 100% claim to the zone. It was surprising that this wasn't the case on here. I never knew servers thought so differently.
Skope
08-14-2011, 04:55 PM
You really want to keep making lies and shit up outside of R&F? Do you want to talk about what TMO has done just within the last week? Keep your nonsense trolling in R&F.
PS thanks for the apps.
it's you two groups of idiots throwing crap at each other like monkeys in cages separated by steel bars. Then when you're all covered in doodoo you point at each other and make comments about how the other one stinks.
If somehow both guilds vanished from P99 this server would have a higher population, a healthier atmosphere and would be more attractive to a new player. Has this ever crossed your mind? Ever? Have you ever thought that maybe the shit that i'm partaking in isn't the healthiest for me or an overwhelming majority of the people that play here?
druziil
08-14-2011, 05:03 PM
I wouldnt even call it leapfrogg what we did in fear yesterday, as almost all mobs were still up.
This is straight bullshit as someone else broke the portal which allowed you to walk in and set up in whatever corner you decided to. Also how many mobs did you have to clear/train away before snagging draco? Pretty sure it wasn't "almost all mobs"
No one who has killed CT recently (well, just TR the pass couple of months I suppose) actually clears Fear. They train mobs, engage and kill him before they wipe. If your guild can't do CT without clearing the whole zone maybe you need to work on that instead of whining about being "sniped".
Because your way is the only way and the best way.
It's quite obvious that you are all delusional. If your gaming experience was truly the "right" way then why do you have to mass recruit and reform twice a year? You burn yourselves out and I'm happily awaiting the next implosion of "top tier" raid guilds. Who has the popcorn?
Nedala
08-14-2011, 05:05 PM
If somehow both guilds vanished from P99 this server would have a higher population, a healthier atmosphere and would be more attractive to a new player. Has this ever crossed your mind? Ever? Have you ever thought that maybe the shit that i'm partaking in isn't the healthiest for me or an overwhelming majority of the people that play here?
There will always be the top guilds that everyone hates, always. Do you really believe in your own words?
Nedala
08-14-2011, 05:09 PM
This is straight bullshit as someone else broke the portal which allowed you to walk in and set up in whatever corner you decided to. Also how many mobs did you have to clear/train away before snagging draco? Pretty sure it wasn't "almost all mobs"
We do the exact same thing on a fully popped fear every time. The mobs you cleared didnt make a difference at all. We have killed draco before in the same "speed" when no other guild broke fear.
Harrison
08-14-2011, 05:11 PM
Kinsawt and getsome are the problems with TR. They only care about being number one and will cheat exploit and be terrible to everyone in order to do this.
Tiggles, for as long as Durison is running your show, you can't really talk about other guilds' shitbaggery. (Valid, or not, it's a massive hypocrisy...)
Harrison
08-14-2011, 05:13 PM
Truth.
Nilbog even came in, flat out, and said you guys are being douchebags. Fuck off already with the leapfrogging, ksing, and rule lawyering to cover your douchebagging.
SupaflyIRL
08-14-2011, 05:14 PM
Enjoyed breaking fear and killing half the mobs to have another guild run in and get me death touched twice with nothing to show for it. Will be logging in again real soon and recruiting some friends to play as well.
******s.
DocDoom
08-14-2011, 05:14 PM
It is about hate. It is more about pity. I envy the lack of lives you all in TR possess about as much as I envy a prisoner in shower about to get shanked by a skin crotch rocket.
My weird fantasies aside I would like to share I dinged level 70 in RL**not 70 years old just the high achievement attainable ATM**. My 4 Month old son and I spent the weekend together making each other laugh and watching football on the TV. Going to church with grandma and grandpa then falling asleep after a nice bottle and watching The A Team.
Nothing is greater in life then seeing your child smile knowing you are the one he is smiling at. Nothing is more satisfying then changing those diapers and hearing that last koo and sigh as he drifts off to sleep.
Man I am so enriched not spending my entire weekend being a shit to other people cause I am in the number 1 guild on a silly game. Congrats TR at leveling up and being the number 1 shits on p1999!
Zereh
08-14-2011, 05:18 PM
LOL at not liking snipe shots taken at "their" mobs when that has been TRs modus operandi since I joined the raiding scene.
Klyre
08-14-2011, 05:24 PM
There will always be the top guilds that everyone hates, always. Do you really believe in your own words?
This is not true, it is true that the top guild almost in all cases are envied but not hated (Umm not true here just hated). On the Karana Server the top guilds worked together and above all had RESPECT. I can't say the same on this server. The top guilds seem to lack this basic tennant that its not all about you.
Nedala
08-14-2011, 05:24 PM
Battles over CT and Draco in fear have been one of the most interesting raid experiences i had in eq. I would kinda be sad if it was gone. When i joined this server it was already a common thing to leapfrog others. Hell even divinity did leapfrog us on CT when sky was out and IB was busy up there. We had like 3-4 guilds competing for CT each time (DA, Divinity,DW and transcenden?) and i had a lot of fun, even tho we never got CT only a draco once in a while. Nobody ever cried about the leapfrogging the last 2? years, but now some people missed their chance at draco/ct and suddenly everyone is crying about it.
Enjoyed breaking fear and killing half the mobs to have another guild run in and get me death touched twice with nothing to show for it. Will be logging in again real soon and recruiting some friends to play as well.
******s.
This happened to me so many times while i was in Remedy/Dw, seriously it takes only one time to get you to ragequit?
Skope
08-14-2011, 05:27 PM
Battles over CT and Draco in fear have been one of the most interesting raid experiences i had in eq. I would kinda be sad if it was gone. When i joined this server it was already a common thing to leapfrog others. Hell even divinity did leapfrog us on CT when sky was out and IB was busy up there. We had like 3-4 guilds competing for CT each time (DA, Divinity,DW and transcenden?) and i had a lot of fun, even tho we never got CT only a draco once in a while. Nobody ever cried about the leapfrogging the last 2? years, but now some people missed their chance at draco/ct and suddenly everyone is crying about it.
it was fun and it was competitive. wonder what happened to that?
Anyway, the point here isn't about fear. It's about the lack of respect, the rule-skirting, the douchebag behavior and zebras.
Gwence
08-14-2011, 05:37 PM
These comparisons to live eq are so silly, I dont think any of you were actually participants back then because they're so far off course.
First off, nothing in p99 is new making this more difficult for people wanting to see raid mobs. Back on live in the early days of eq there were 2 servers to start?? I think that's right. Veeshan, and Bristlebane I believe. I played on Veeshan and /movelog when they opened the horde of other servers, anyway Veeshan had FoH eventually rise to power when enough people had leveled up and bunch of smaller guilds that spent time getting to know the game because it was all new.
After the movelog each of the new servers had maybe 1 big raid guild, some maybe had 2 and they raided while others continued to xp and familiarize themselves with content and what not, and as expansions came out the big raiders distanced themselves and eventually were usually at least 1 expansion ahead of any of the other guilds.
This can't happen here because it's only 1 server for one thing, and content is released slowly, and most importantly everyone knows what they're doing the 2nd time around (at least to some small extent anyway). So I dont understand why the methods on this server continue to shock and appall people, everyone wants to kill the dragon, some can do it better than others.
Top tier raiding on live was about 500x more vicious than anything I've experienced here, at least on my server.
h0tr0d (shaere)
08-14-2011, 05:50 PM
it was fun and it was competitive. wonder what happened to that?
Exactly. I too remember competing for draco and CT. It wasn't a leapfrog it was take different approaches to getting the mob. The strategy involved in the pull and when to engage.
Leapfrog is when one guild is clearly set for a raid mob like sitting on nagafens' stairs and you rush by them despite being late. Or when they are pulling traks lair to the bridge and when they pull the last jugg you rush up and engage trakanon. There needs to be rules to allow racing and competition but prevent people from being dickheads.
Dantes
08-14-2011, 05:50 PM
So because it's not in the rules means it's fine to be dicks?
How do you people not get this? Leapfrogging is a dick move. It's not about "rules" or "ZOMG IT HAPPENED ON MY SERVER ITS FAIR".
The point is - some guilds are trying to have the raid scene be a fun place, where guilds can get along, and not be dicks to one another. Some other guild(s) are using this to their advantage. We get it, you get it, but don't act like it's anything than you being 100% dicks. You shouldn't need GMs to babysit you to not be a dick.
So true.
Just like if there were a group headed down to the crypt in Sebilis, but they chose to kill the mobs on the way in... Sure you could just IVU and pass their group up, but what kind of fucking dickhead would do that?
Klyre
08-14-2011, 06:00 PM
Battles over CT and Draco in fear have been one of the most interesting raid experiences i had in eq. I would kinda be sad if it was gone. When i joined this server it was already a common thing to leapfrog others. Hell even divinity did leapfrog us on CT when sky was out and IB was busy up there. We had like 3-4 guilds competing for CT each time (DA, Divinity,DW and transcenden?) and i had a lot of fun, even tho we never got CT only a draco once in a while. Nobody ever cried about the leapfrogging the last 2? years, but now some people missed their chance at draco/ct and suddenly everyone is crying about it.
This happened to me so many times while i was in Remedy/Dw, seriously it takes only one time to get you to ragequit?
I think then that you have been too busy to listen. This has been a complaint for all of that time, and when people try to bring it up or do somthing about it the guilds at the very top cry foul for even considering an alternative. But eh it doesn't matter because you will continue to delude yourself that it is all about your fun. I almost wish that the RED server would start so that you can go get that rush your craving for when you say you enjoy the competition of Zerging each others guilds for mobs.
druziil
08-14-2011, 06:01 PM
Nobody ever cried about the leapfrogging the last 2? years, but now some people missed their chance at draco/ct and suddenly everyone is crying about it.
You might want to go re-read my original post in this thread and then stop saying everyone. The more you pretend the entire server is out to get you and hate on you the more your greedy selfishness stands out.
Our monks got FTE on Cazic, good for us. Our monks got DTed before he was in camp, bad for us. He resets, you engage, good for you. Grats on your kill. All facts no whine.
The exception i take you TR and TMO is you are first and foremost a Zerg guild.(This is my singular opinion and maybe not every ones) Any guild with 50to 60 people can all rush in turn on auto attack and win. When you take extreme pride in that and look down your nose at the other "lesser" guilds like its some extraordinary feat to mass recruit any D-Bag above lvl 50, you lose any inkling of respect the average player has for you. Especially when you have to accept just about anyone, no standards, to post numbers and end up with some real shitbag people that tarnish your name. When 2 guilds end up in this position and just having numbers isn't enough you start looking for every technicality or loophole you can exploit to give you an edge over the other. Then you come in here and start pointing fingers at one and other for doing some "absurd" measure to keep loots from the other, while simultaneously doing those same "absurd" things to do exactly that. I'm not telling you not to play this way, its your time to spend how you want. However you are out of your mind if you think everyone should get on board with how you operate and devolve the server into a total cesspool with 10 guilds poopsocking and training, zerging, and raging about what those other guys did over there.
You are not as special as you think you are, or maybe your mother tells you you are. You are not going to marginalize my experience on the server because you somehow think you are more entitled to play here just because you /played is a bigger number then mine. I know where I stand, and have realistic hopes and goals as to where and what i will get to see in BDA. I'm enjoying my experience for the most part, and i'll ask again, are you?
Slathar
08-14-2011, 06:15 PM
Look at all these desperate nerds crying over video games. Being in a top guild here is an embarrassment as it means you spend an unhealthy amount of time playing and get texts to log in at 4:00 AM to "win" Everquest. Pathetic.
Klyre
08-14-2011, 06:17 PM
These comparisons to live eq are so silly, I dont think any of you were actually participants back then because they're so far off course.
First off, nothing in p99 is new making this more difficult for people wanting to see raid mobs. Back on live in the early days of eq there were 2 servers to start?? I think that's right. Veeshan, and Bristlebane I believe. I played on Veeshan and /movelog when they opened the horde of other servers, anyway Veeshan had FoH eventually rise to power when enough people had leveled up and bunch of smaller guilds that spent time getting to know the game because it was all new.
After the movelog each of the new servers had maybe 1 big raid guild, some maybe had 2 and they raided while others continued to xp and familiarize themselves with content and what not, and as expansions came out the big raiders distanced themselves and eventually were usually at least 1 expansion ahead of any of the other guilds.
This can't happen here because it's only 1 server for one thing, and content is released slowly, and most importantly everyone knows what they're doing the 2nd time around (at least to some small extent anyway). So I dont understand why the methods on this server continue to shock and appall people, everyone wants to kill the dragon, some can do it better than others.
Top tier raiding on live was about 500x more vicious than anything I've experienced here, at least on my server.
Its amazing that you are so willing to say what everyones lack of experience was on live and yet you do the same. Not all servers were the same.
Nedala
08-14-2011, 06:24 PM
Our monks got FTE on Cazic, good for us. Our monks got DTed before he was in camp, bad for us. He resets, you engage, good for you. Grats on your kill. All facts no whine.
And also theres still a very good chance you would have wiped to CT, just saying.
The exception i take you TR and TMO is you are first and foremost a Zerg guild.(This is my singular opinion and maybe not every ones) Any guild with 50to 60 people can all rush in turn on auto attack and win. When you take extreme pride in that and look down your nose at the other "lesser" guilds like its some extraordinary feat to mass recruit any D-Bag above lvl 50, you lose any inkling of respect the average player has for you. Especially when you have to accept just about anyone, no standards, to post numbers and end up with some real shitbag people that tarnish your name. When 2 guilds end up in this position and just having numbers isn't enough you start looking for every technicality or loophole you can exploit to give you an edge over the other. Then you come in here and start pointing fingers at one and other for doing some "absurd" measure to keep loots from the other, while simultaneously doing those same "absurd" things to do exactly that. I'm not telling you not to play this way, its your time to spend how you want. However you are out of your mind if you think everyone should get on board with how you operate and devolve the server into a total cesspool with 10 guilds poopsocking and training, zerging, and raging about what those other guys did over there.
Im not sure what your point exactly is, you sound like this was your first CT race on this server, you lost and now you are butthurt. Your post is full of bullshit.
We are not a zergguild at all, we kill every mob on this server with fewer members than you could. Tell me when did we raid with 50-60 people last time? No standarts? Do you know anything at all about our recruit process? And leapfrogging a guild is now exploint or finding a loophole? We killed every raidmob on this server with numbers between 30-40, if you consider that a zerg, fine. I am sorry we had a few more than 40 people online on a full server respawn on a weekend bro. We didnt win CT cause we had more numbers (did we even have more numbers?), we won because we know how to do it the best way.
Seriously dude, just stfu, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Get your facts straight next time.
And also theres still a very good chance you would have wiped to CT, just saying.
If you think they were going to wipe, why not let them have a free shot at it? If they wipe then by all means go after it, other wise if they get it you built some good will.
druziil
08-14-2011, 07:02 PM
And also theres still a very good chance you would have wiped to CT, just saying.
true enough.
Im not sure what your point exactly is.
Let me try to use less words so maybe you can understand better. Respect is mutually earned. You don't respect anyone. I don't respect your elitist attitude.
You are only "better" then me because i bet you spend more time logged in then i do, not that you know more about the game/classes.
We are not a zergguild at all
No one who has killed CT recently (well, just TR the pass couple of months I suppose) actually clears Fear. They train mobs, engage and kill him before they wipe. If your guild can't do CT without clearing the whole zone maybe you need to work on that instead of whining about being "sniped".
Please clarify how what Ring is describing is not Zerging an encounter? As opposed to clearing the mobs as was designed by the game developers. You can try to make your arguments that your way is "better" but there is no fact to this, all opinion. It's like saying the best way to get drunk is bong a liter of vodka, well, cause if the goal is to get wasted wouldn't that be the fastest way?
Tell me when did we raid with 50-60 people last time? No standarts? Do you know anything at all about our recruit process?
Not really, this part was more directed at TMO.
And leapfrogging a guild is now exploint or finding a loophole?
No, but using post 52 characters to engage a dragon you damn well know should be banishing is. Rule lawyering First to 15, or FTE rules to loophole your way into loots. I was more referring to exploiting circumstances/rules more then i meant exploiting the game/client.
We didnt win CT cause we had more numbers (did we even have more numbers?), we won because we know how to do it the best way.
Guaranteed the average level of your raid was higher then ours. Those are numbers also, please try hard to follow.
Seriously dude, just stfu, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Get your facts straight next time.
Most of what i said was my opinion. Stop calling my statements facts. Seriously dude, just stfu
YendorLootmonkey
08-14-2011, 07:08 PM
If you think they were going to wipe, why not let them have a free shot at it? If they wipe then by all means go after it, other wise if they get it you built some good will.
^^^ this x 100
Stop being douchebags. That's the only beef the rest of the server has with you. If someone beats you to the punch, let them try. Don't get shitty that they had the audacity to beat you to one of your mobs and then snipe it out from under them. That's all we're asking.
Instead of competing to be the biggest pricks, the top guilds should compete to be the most respected. If you can get the kills/loot and still be respected and demonstrate you can play well with others, that is a bigger win to me than just "getting the kills/loot at all costs."
Tewaz
08-14-2011, 07:10 PM
I also agree with this idea.
Fraggle
08-14-2011, 07:15 PM
Thx for shaere.
Harrison
08-14-2011, 07:32 PM
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=362613&postcount=222
Reposting to show the retards attempting to justify being dicks, that the fucking project manager of this entire show, thinks you're dicks too.
Harrison
08-14-2011, 07:33 PM
Waaaaaaaaaah my Idol of the Thorned won't drop, it MUST be a bug.
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