Lord Nagafen & Lady Vox status (post 52 restriction)

[Nedala]

A matter of opinion, fear without leapfrogging would be like instanced raiding.

[Harrison]

You're not getting my point.

The guy in charge of this whole thing, thinks you're dicks.

[Lazortag]

This is unrelated, but since people are talking about CT, why does he have variance? Maybe I'm underestimating the dedication of certain guilds on this server, but would people honestly try to poopsock him even if the whole zone was going to pop on top of them?

[Skope]

This is unrelated, but since people are talking about CT, why does he have variance? Maybe I'm underestimating the dedication of certain guilds on this server, but would people honestly try to poopsock him even if the whole zone was going to pop on top of them?

happened before, so yes, they will. variance is unrelated to the poopsock issue

[YendorLootmonkey]

A matter of opinion, fear without leapfrogging would be like instanced raiding.

What would other raid targets without leapfrogging be like?

[Bubbles]

A matter of opinion, fear without leapfrogging would be like instanced raiding.

Or Baseball.. Or Apple Pie... Or touching a women without paying for it first. Instanced raiding was introduced into MMORPGs simply to allow ppl to BOTH raid and avoid the anti social pyschopaths who raged with such fervor they might be tempted to seek out a dead game 10 years into the future to rekindle the closest thing to meaning their life ever held.

For the record, lets just do 1 of two things.

1. ) one week blackout. just pull the plug on the server. GMs can fix issues and mess with working on the server unimpeded. Everyone else can go watch Matlock or hit the beach or whatever. See the sun.

2. ) One week blackout on GM involvement. Just let the raiding go Lord of the Flies. Anything goes. You wanna train someone? Fine. You wanna team up with someone else to eff with guild 3? that's fine too.

Just let the server sort it out for itself. Just freaking sell popcorn and the FRAPS will be legendary.

Someone said earlier that on some live servers the guild that broke fear 'had claim to fear'. Well it was true on some servers. But it was because of "competition". If you wanted to zone in and try and leapfrog someone, their SKs and bards and monks would literally wipe anyone in your raid who couldnt FD clear out of the zone.

Which is about 100x closer to the spirit of competition than filling up socks over a spawn point anyways. Everyone seems so amped to 'compete' all of a sudden. Let it happen. Turn them loose. Completely.

[Tiggles]

Or Baseball.. Or Apple Pie... Or touching a women without paying for it first. Instanced raiding was introduced into MMORPGs simply to allow ppl to BOTH raid and avoid the anti social pyschopaths who raged with such fervor they might be tempted to seek out a dead game 10 years into the future to rekindle the closest thing to meaning their life ever held.

For the record, lets just do 1 of two things.

1. ) one week blackout. just pull the plug on the server. GMs can fix issues and mess with working on the server unimpeded. Everyone else can go watch Matlock or hit the beach or whatever. See the sun.

2. ) One week blackout on GM involvement. Just let the raiding go Lord of the Flies. Anything goes. You wanna train someone? Fine. You wanna team up with someone else to eff with guild 3? that's fine too.

Just let the server sort it out for itself. Just freaking sell popcorn and the FRAPS will be legendary.

Someone said earlier that on some live servers the guild that broke fear 'had claim to fear'. Well it was true on some servers. But it was because of "competition". If you wanted to zone in and try and leapfrog someone, their SKs and bards and monks would literally wipe anyone in your raid who couldnt FD clear out of the zone.

Which is about 100x closer to the spirit of competition than filling up socks over a spawn point anyways. Everyone seems so amped to 'compete' all of a sudden. Let it happen. Turn them loose. Completely.

[Kevlar]

Or Baseball.. Or Apple Pie... Or touching a women without paying for it first. Instanced raiding was introduced into MMORPGs simply to allow ppl to BOTH raid and avoid the anti social pyschopaths who raged with such fervor they might be tempted to seek out a dead game 10 years into the future to rekindle the closest thing to meaning their life ever held.

For the record, lets just do 1 of two things.

1. ) one week blackout. just pull the plug on the server. GMs can fix issues and mess with working on the server unimpeded. Everyone else can go watch Matlock or hit the beach or whatever. See the sun.

2. ) One week blackout on GM involvement. Just let the raiding go Lord of the Flies. Anything goes. You wanna train someone? Fine. You wanna team up with someone else to eff with guild 3? that's fine too.

Just let the server sort it out for itself. Just freaking sell popcorn and the FRAPS will be legendary.

Someone said earlier that on some live servers the guild that broke fear 'had claim to fear'. Well it was true on some servers. But it was because of "competition". If you wanted to zone in and try and leapfrog someone, their SKs and bards and monks would literally wipe anyone in your raid who couldnt FD clear out of the zone.

Didn't most people just aoe clear fear after kunark/velious? Most guilds would just thank them for helping pull.

[Rais]

wtb DA idols

[Dravingar]

Leapfrogging is a new and exciting concept to me.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/vB3UWBP4IBI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I have to ask, did people stack Shadoo with PR every Trak and if so, were they using an exploit? /Chuckle.

try /showspelleffects off

[Fraggle]

I have to ask, did people stack Shadoo with PR every Trak and if so, were they using an exploit? /Chuckle.

try /showspelleffects off

Thx for shaere.

[PureLo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yew0QbL8oM0

Their guild leader (or figurehead :Perun: ) removed the text "Thanks Taken for clearing fear for us" from their website AND it was also mentioned in a post on these forums (that probably got removed) essentially bragging about rolling in just to have a clear path to snipe from the guild that did all the work.

Pretty much sums a lot of this up. Oh and don't forget, this video was used/intended as a recruiting tool... LOL!

[Dravingar]

I have to ask, did people stack Shadoo with PR every Trak and if so, were they using an exploit? /Chuckle.

try /showspelleffects off

I don't have a computer from the 1970's so lag is never an issue. Try again fattie.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

It isn't about lag Dravingar. It is about not being able to see.

[bluejam]

Enjoyed breaking fear and killing half the mobs to have another guild run in and get me death touched twice with nothing to show for it. Will be logging in again real soon and recruiting some friends to play as well.

******s.
:eek:

[Hijynx]

Something tells me no other guild will be getting epics till at least velious comes out..... ;P maybe druids and shamans but thats it.

[Skope]

Something tells me no other guild will be getting epics till at least velious comes out..... ;P maybe druids and shamans but thats it.

ha! that's what you think. my mage is already set!

but yes. can't wait to see the cleric fiasco

[Tiggles]

TR has already been talking about what they are going to door for cleric epic. They are going to try and perma-camp ragefire to stop other guilds from getting epics.

This isn't competing for content this is just straight up bottlenecking for the fun of it

[Raavak]

Thats called griefing imho.

[Dravingar]

They are going to try and perma-camp ragefire till they have all their needed cleric epics.

This a logical thing which every guild will try to be doing if they aren't retarded.

Fixed that for you.

[Shiftin]

Yep, I also have plans to help as many guildmates as possible complete their epics, not because I've had a great time raiding with them for a year and we support each other, it's definitely so that someone else can't get their epic instead.

[aerokella]

I read like 10 pages of this thread and this is all that came to mind.

Dick swanging and tears.

[booter]

Yep, I also have plans to help as many guildmates as possible complete their epics, not because I've had a great time raiding with them for a year and we support each other, it's definitely so that someone else can't get their epic instead.

Don't forget that we keep Cleric recruitment open so that we have even more people in line to prevent other guilds from getting it for as long as possible.

[karsten]

Yendor, he doesn't run that guild. I mean, technically he runs it, but he does the whole durison thing where they don't lead the raids and sit back and run things from afar. Xzerion isn't the problem, it's the lack of xzerion that's the problem.

well I of course enjoy more xzerion as opposed to less xzerion, but the fact is that despite large amounts of people bitching that they'd like us to play differently than we do such that they get more things from the zero sum game of raid bosses in eq, our officer corps and as a general rule by extension our member group do play by the mantra he mentioned in the earlier quote.

The fact is that when more than one person wants one single item, not everyone is going to get it. I can certainly pledge that when you deal with me or any of my constituents you will get as fierce as competition that I can throw at you, with as little douchebaggery as possible. If that doesn't jive with you then i don't know what to tell you.

[Tiggles]

Fixed that for you.

What about your TS conversation about killing the trigger mob when you no longer need cleric epics?

Can you even kill merchants?

[Supaskillz]

part of this thread belongs in bugs (naggy is not banishing) and most of it belongs in R&F

[Duie]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=45416

[Mcbard]

Why is this thread so off topic.. isn't that what RnF is for?

I hope the original poster got the information he needed!

[Tibador]

Because maybe some good will come out of this instead of throwing in to that hole of retardation called RnF.

[Mcbard]

Lol ya, the guy dropping racial slurs and the bickering back and forth has sure turned this into an informative thread.

[Glitch]

Because maybe some good will come out of this instead of throwing in to that hole of retardation called RnF.

Aw, Tibs. come join the RnF party~

[guineapig]

Because maybe some good will come out of this instead of throwing in to that hole of retardation called RnF.
I was honestly hoping for the same thing but it didn't happen despite giving poeple infractions.

part of this thread belongs in bugs (naggy is not banishing)
This sums up the part that was useful.

and most of it belongs in R&F
This sums up the rest.


Lol ya, the guy dropping racial slurs and the bickering back and forth has sure turned this into an informative thread.

My thoughts exactly. So be it!

[Skope]

well I of course enjoy more xzerion as opposed to less xzerion, but the fact is that despite large amounts of people bitching that they'd like us to play differently than we do such that they get more things from the zero sum game of raid bosses in eq, our officer corps and as a general rule by extension our member group do play by the mantra he mentioned in the earlier quote.

The fact is that when more than one person wants one single item, not everyone is going to get it. I can certainly pledge that when you deal with me or any of my constituents you will get as fierce as competition that I can throw at you, with as little douchebaggery as possible. If that doesn't jive with you then i don't know what to tell you.

Karsten, I've had personal interactions with some of your officers (and members) that would prove otherwise. You guys have a habit of grandfathering your dickheads into officer positions, and that's more than hot air. You need only look at the recent fiasco with taken over naggy -- both the fact that you apparently didn't report the bug (and exploited it for weeks) but also that that sort of thing even happened. You can say you live up to what Xzerion claims, and perhaps you try, but at the moment you're straying further and further from what you claim. Hell, why all the bitching at TMO? Instead of having officer(s) from both guilds chat about it beforehand, you guys keep your mouths shut, knowing full well there's gonna be a problem sooner or later and then call the GMs in to clean up the mess you didn't care to avoid. All it takes is a few tells and conceding a little bit in order to not cause a shitstorm, but no. Uthgaard isn't backing up his tough talk either. Had he meant the shit he says about GM workload and involvement and not being douchebags both of your guilds would've been banned for 2-3 weeks from raiding entirely. And then there's the interactions that both I and other div members have had with Kinsawt, Wonton, Swarws, Trystych, Mady, and on, and on, and on. If you really want a list of what I've seen personally and what I've heard from div members then you need only send me a tell in-game.

I could give 2 shits about the items and quit assuming it's about loot, that's your TR showing. I play for the funzies.

just quit being assholes. Unfortunately you'll keep being assholes unless someone stomps on your foot and takes away what you love most, and that's your pretty little pixels. Right now raiding is about poopsocking, rule-skirting, bitching about a guild who does the exact things you criticize them for and general douchebag behavior and you're one of the two culprits

[Ektar]

THIS IS WHY WE CAN'T HAVE NICE THINGS

[Skope]

since this is in RnF now...

Uthgaard, reading that little pastebin suckfest between the 2 TMO/TR officers and you was like reading a gay penthouse story. Just 3 grown men with their mouths attached to each others scrotums and a lot of weird sexual tension in the air. Seriously, start enforcing that "douchebag" rule or edit the thread and get rid of it.

[Harrison]

Hey guys, remember when Nilbog came in and said you guys were being fucking douchebags?

I do.

[Tiggles]

Hey!

This thread is in RnF.

Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck

[YendorLootmonkey]

our officer corps and as a general rule by extension our member group do play by the mantra he mentioned in the earlier quote.

with as little douchebaggery as possible.

Good. Then stop leapfrogging. You can make the case for CT up to a certain point, depending on how much of Fear had been cleared by the guild you're about to snipe him from, but other than that...

http://i.imgur.com/pyRDD.png

If Xzerion wasn't talking out his ass about expecting TR to take the high road, and you aren't talking out of your ass here, then effective immediately, your guild should stop leapfrogging/sniping targets out from other guilds. Let them attempt. Don't interfere. They out-mobilized you fair and square. THAT is the competition you said you wanted. Feel free to grab the mob after they fail. There would be a lot more respect for the top guilds around here, the server raid scene wouldn't be so miserable, and you might actually have to work to out-mobilize instead of falling back on "No matter, we'll just rush past them and gank Naggy while they pull the last FGs."

I highly suspect you guys are just all talk though about the "higher road" thing, amirite? Because leapfrogging is not the higher road. Once more for good measure from the Project Manager of P99:

http://i.imgur.com/pyRDD.png

[booter]

Good. Then stop leapfrogging. You can make the case for CT up to a certain point, depending on how much of Fear had been cleared by the guild you're about to snipe him from, but other than that...

http://i.imgur.com/pyRDD.png

If Xzerion wasn't talking out his ass about expecting TR to take the high road, and you aren't talking out of your ass here, then effective immediately, your guild should stop leapfrogging/sniping targets out from other guilds. Let them attempt. Don't interfere. They out-mobilized you fair and square. THAT is the competition you said you wanted. Feel free to grab the mob after they fail. There would be a lot more respect for the top guilds around here, the server raid scene wouldn't be so miserable, and you might actually have to work to out-mobilize instead of falling back on "No matter, we'll just rush past them and gank Naggy while they pull the last FGs."

I highly suspect you guys are just all talk though about the "higher road" thing, amirite? Because leapfrogging is not the higher road. Once more for good measure from the Project Manager of P99:

http://i.imgur.com/pyRDD.png

I think the problem with CT is that our strategy legitimately involves killing as little trash as possible, whether or not another guild is in fear. When it is an empty zone, we have killed Draco and CT and are porting out sometimes within 15 minutes of zoning in. Just because a guild zoned in first does not mean they get to take a few hours, clear the zone, etc. It's the nature of this zone/encounter.

Surely we are not the only guild capable of this strategy. And before people scream zomg zerg, we do this with mid 20s/low 30s.

Otherwise, I agree with you/your sentiments most of the time on targets like Naggy etc.

[Juugox2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnyVE1go2vs

[Asher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnyVE1go2vs

Tom Green is not funny.

Thx for trying to Shaere.

[getsome]

If anyone is interested in killing naggy next time it pops just send me a tell. I would love to have you join.

The naggy before the server reset we had five maybe six different guilds participate in slaying it.

(ui sux but i rarely play a rogue)

http://i54.tinypic.com/2wfi9l1.jpg

[Sat Aug 13 04:58:53 2011] Chest says, 'just magi and naggy left'
[Sat Aug 13 04:54:11 2011] Dutche tells you, 'WE can't kill him with our group or anything but i was hoping If I or anyone else in it who wanted to/capable. Could participate as well?
[Sat Aug 13 04:54:30 2011] You told Dutche, 'u all sub 52?'
[Sat Aug 13 04:55:01 2011] Dutche tells you, 'just me 47 rog, and a 49 clr'
[Sat Aug 13 04:55:12 2011] Wobble says, 'this is a nice joint raid btw, remedy tr bda da....'
[Sat Aug 13 04:58:01 2011] Arshis tells the guild, 'we with bda?'
[Sat Aug 13 04:59:00 2011] Dutche tells you, 'you figure'n out groups or sumthin?'
[Sat Aug 13 04:59:58 2011] You told dutche, 'we all in voice chat, u can put up lfg if u want participate . but worst case u can group with ur rogue'
[Sat Aug 13 05:01:34 2011] Chest says, 'gimme cleric and shaman buffs and ill try to split out magi'
[Sat Aug 13 05:01:37 2011] Arshis tells you, 'i wanted clearing to go faster so i broguht arshis'
[Sat Aug 13 05:02:23 2011] Dutche tells you, 'cleric is curious if they'd have a chance to roll on anything decent?'
[Sat Aug 13 05:02:38 2011] You told dutche, 'we dont roll on loot, we do officer loot'
[Sat Aug 13 05:02:51 2011] Dutche tells you, 'we do that too =D'
[Sat Aug 13 05:03:12 2011] You told Dutche, 'only cleric thing , half way decent off of naggy is bladestopper'
[Sat Aug 13 05:09:58 2011] Mchammer says, 'Polished Mithril Mask'
[Sat Aug 13 05:10:12 2011] You told dutche, 'ur loot off magi'
[Sat Aug 13 05:12:05 2011] You told arshis, 'play apotheosis he is bound @ ledge '
[Sat Aug 13 05:13:28 2011] Arshis has offered you a Donal's Chestplate of Mourning.
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] ---------------------------
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Apotheosis Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Chanto
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Necroma Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Aego Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Boomgo
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Quezink Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Chest Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Shalaya Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Tarathiel Bregan D`Aerth> LFG
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Keltai Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [45 Wizard] Zrdztxl (Dark Elf) Vesica Dei>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [46 Necromancer] Gnommercy (Skeleton) Peace Pipe>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Jhereg Remedy>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Sakure Freedom Guard>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Cedux
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [42 Rogue] Sneaking (Dwarf) Poison>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Wobble Dark Ascension>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Honkey
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Isoka Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Judy Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Mchammer Dark Ascension>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Ketsui Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Rieve Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Rumzuck Transatlantic Rampage>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Frimy Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Dutche Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Slowpoy Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Healius Bregan D`Aerth>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Burgles Dark Ascension>
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] [ANONYMOUS] Yulath Transatlantic Rampage>[Sat Aug 13 05:16:02 2011] There are 30 players in Nagafen's Lair.
[Sat Aug 13 05:16:58 2011] You told Apotheosis, 'open trade'
[Sat Aug 13 05:17:13 2011] Apotheosis tells you, 'looks good so far'
[Sat Aug 13 05:18:33 2011] Burgles says, 'no enchanter i dont think'
[Sat Aug 13 05:18:43 2011] Burgles says, 'o nm chanto here'
[Sat Aug 13 05:22:21 2011] Quezink tells the guild, 'Words of Acquisition (Beza), Hierophant`s Crook, Selo`s Drums of the March, Sapphire Necklace'
[Sat Aug 13 05:23:46 2011] Dutche shouts, 'I just wanna say before everyone heads out. That I am absolutely beside myself with happiness for how smoothly everything went on this. And thank you all for coming out!'[Sat Aug 13 05:23:53 2011] Mchammer cheers at Dutche.
[Sat Aug 13 05:23:57 2011] Mchammer congratulates Dutche on a job well done.
[Sat Aug 13 05:23:58 2011] Dutche cheers at Mchammer.
[Sat Aug 13 05:23:59 2011] Cedux shouts, 'Yer welcome!'
[Sat Aug 13 05:24:03 2011] Tarathiel shouts, 'woot!!'
[Sat Aug 13 05:24:23 2011] You told dutche, 'what classes u got here?'
[Sat Aug 13 05:24:42 2011] Dutche tells you, 'Rog Sk Mnk, Clr NEC'
[Sat Aug 13 05:25:14 2011] You told Dutche, 'u all want a hierophants crook?'
[Sat Aug 13 05:25:30 2011] Dutche tells you, 'sure'
[Sat Aug 13 05:25:36 2011] Dutche tells you, 'they would love tat'
[Sat Aug 13 05:25:40 2011] You told dutche, 'it was that and Selo`s Drums of the March that dropped'
[Sat Aug 13 05:25:57 2011] Dutche tells you, 'you can give it to chest then'
[Sat Aug 13 05:26:09 2011] Dutche tells you, 'he will figure out how to do something with it'
[Sat Aug 13 05:26:17 2011] You told Dutche, 'a druid may like it'
[Sat Aug 13 05:26:21 2011] Chest tells you, 'appreciate it'
[Sat Aug 13 05:26:47 2011] Dutche tells you, 'then yea we can guild bank it for someone'
[Sat Aug 13 05:26:57 2011] You told Dutche, 'thanks it was fun'
[Sat Aug 13 05:27:01 2011] Dutche tells you, 'Thats very kind of you. +) thank you Sir!'

[Tiggles]

If anyone is interested in killing naggy next time it pops just send me a tell. I would love to have you join.

The naggy before the server reset we had five maybe six different guilds participate in slaying it.

(ui sux but i rarely play a rogue)



Can i come on my cleric? (serious)

[getsome]

If anyone is interested in killing naggy next time it pops just send me a tell. I would love to have you join.

[druziil]

If anyone is interested in killing naggy next time it pops just send me a tell. I would love to have you join.

The naggy before the server reset we had five maybe six different guilds participate in slaying it.

(ui sux but i rarely play a rogue)



This is either a piss poor attempt at a positive PR spin, or a hopeful sign that not all of you are complete dicks. What really makes me laugh in real life is that it was only ONE(1) day later that you feel inclined to "race" to naggy and "snipe" him out from under Taken.

I can't be the only one who is confused by this.

[Dravingar]

Good. Then stop leapfrogging. You can make the case for CT up to a certain point, depending on how much of Fear had been cleared by the guild you're about to snipe him from, but other than that...

All I can think about is how amazing RnF will be come Velious and PoGrowth and the Tunare dramas that will occur.

[Shiftin]

No, we're a bunch of "dicks" that like messing with SHAERE.. subtle difference. "Folks" aren't on these forums every day shitting on us.

I found your answer. If the taken guildleader quits taking shots at TR in every conceivable forum at every opportunity you might find an entirely different attitude suddenly emerge. The guy's tin foil hat is so big he accused us of stealing his pulling strategies for Plane of Fear when he was in DA and continues to insist that we cheat at every turn.

We'd still be happy to have ANYONE join us for the fun next nagafen, regardless of guildtag.

[Seaweedpimp]

Ill be there! w. bells!

[getsome]

Koless The Dragon Slayer

[Tycko]

So if i join TR on a naggy kill I am qualified to recieve loot, but a TR "council" will distribute it?

IE: Cloak of Flames drops and the TR "council" will decide who it will go to that was at the dragon kill.

Just trying to clarify the details of your invitation.

[Seaweedpimp]

Koless The Dragon Slayer

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Allow me to bring people up to speed. In fear if you had mobs on side of the fire wall and you on the other, it was an instant aggro clear, as if it was a physical barrier. Combine that with instant aggro wipe here, and it was easy cheesy. It was used to make an easy temple pull split and Firehead when he was online with Transcendence clued me in on that on p99. Now back then Draco was always a race but after I showed DA people how to use the fire wall I started seeing IB or TR whatever using this for draco. No need to split off mobs, you could just train thru the fire wall and FD when draco was on your side. Instant aggro wipe from old fd, nothing behind the fire wall would aggro when you tagged so you can see how it made an early draco pull easy.

Here is where your tin foil hat comes in. I petitioned about the fire wall and made an offhand remark in the course of just conversing about the 'bug' and I mentioned that I think they stole that idea and used it to get quick draco pulls because it was the first time I saw them use it, after I showed some DA people. The tin foil hat part? I was responding to an answered petition. I didn't post here or tell any of TR that they 'stole my strat'. And cheat at every turn might be a reference to the petitions I have put in about mysterious trains that seemingly come from nowhere when a TR member decides to come sit by us at FG or reets juggs. Mobs that come out of nowhere and train through us as they vanish from camping or whatever. Those were petitioned, not mentioned to TR. There is some tinfoil hat for you.

Don't be fooled by their transparent attempts at painting me to be the bad guy. They have been pulling stunts in game left and right for over a year and their 'attitude' isn't anything new. It wasn't Shaere that suddenly made them start leapfrogging or pulling all the other stunts they do and behaving in the manner I cursed them for. My flames were in direct response to things they did. You don't want anyone taking 'potshots' quit lying, cheating, stealing your way through the game. The next I am approached about a guild rotation or calendar possibility be serious and quit trying to use it to manipulate your way into VP first. I was the one approached and as soon as TR got a few trak kills crickets, not a word more about it. This Nagafen stunt is an attempt to ensure they get some loot and recruit people that is all, don't be fooled. They have had plenty of chances to be the good guys and not ONCE before Shaere became their target did they step up.

But your words mean nothing, show us with your actions in game. People have been flaming you for a long time here and you just now decide to try saying I am the reason for your actions over the past year? How about when you guys roll into fear and kill CT we had cleared to? We didn't flame or say anything because we wiped and you guys didn't leapfrog or anything. We didn't like it but we wiped ourselves so no one to flame. But then you pricks post it on your site with a shot at us "Thanks for clearing fear for us Taken." and are surprised when I grow angry? And when I reply, now I'm the one taking potshots? You started it with that recruiting video post and tag and if you don't want anyone to call you out on your behavior quit pulling garbage like that. So if you want me to stop maybe you should stop and giving people things to point at. Play fair and quit trying to manipulate the server for your own good.

Yeah I'm the one on this server screwing everything up... ignorant dolt.

[Tiggles]

Not trolling or anything but i seriously like this shaere guy.

[Seaweedpimp]

Kinsawt slandered my good name, my guild will not have me now for trakanon..


Thanks KINSAWT

[Asher]

Not trolling or anything but i seriously like this shaere guy.

You're welcome for Shaere.

[aerokella]

10 new pages and more dick swanging and tin foil conspiracies. Ohh 99 i miss you sometimes.

[Skope]

So if i join TR on a naggy kill I am qualified to recieve loot, but a TR "council" will distribute it?

IE: Cloak of Flames drops and the TR "council" will decide who it will go to that was at the dragon kill.

Just trying to clarify the details of your invitation.

no, that's people trying to score PR points. if it's a contested mob that they actually need (other than for selling in EC) it'd be poopsocked and zerged and they'd try to take advantage any way that possibly can. that is unless they've changed in the past 2 days and did a complete 180

Here's a snippet of what we, divinity, sees in apps and what they say about us. Mind you, we only killed inny maybe 3-4x before this so we certainly still *needed* him, but there's a difference between what you *need* and what you think is right. quoted directly:

Because I've enjoyed the company of every Divinity member I can ever remember chatting with, and I've never had a bad experience with a Divinity member. When I used to lead raids with Eminence, there was one and only one guild that consistently took the high ground -- Divinity. At one point, when planar raids were still hotly contested, Barfight was helping pull gorgons to Eminence's camp because Divinity didn't have any druids that needed planar gear on their raid. Another time, Eminence was gathered for Inny in Hate. We only had 17, and we had never taken down a god before. Divinity showed up about 30 minutes after us, after we'd already gotten two attempts in. You sat back and let us fully prep and engage, rather than forcing us to race you for FTE. We wiped again. At that point, we had written Inny off. But Divinity helped rez us, sat back, and let us try once more. We failed again (with Inny at 7%), but the fact that Divinity let us try twice before taking him stuck with me. I've also realized that whenever I need a transfer done in EC, I trust random Divinity members more than some of my own in-game friends. I figure that's a good reason to try to join up.

They were losing people and on vent i can distinctly remember many div people actually HOPING they would kill him. we were actually cheering for a guild competing against us on a mob that we both needed... where the hell are you? trying to score points with a dragon whose loot you sell in ec? seriously, fuck off.

[getsome]

its not about the loot its about the kill. scope why are you so angry?

[Seaweedpimp]

its not about the loot its about the kill. scope why are you so angry?

The kill is the good part. Especially if you are a necro. ;)

[karsten]

heh

skope's still mad we've decided to not just give him free raid mobs

the more text you spew, the clearer that becomes to me and to everyone else, so let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

[karsten]

Good. Then stop leapfrogging. You can make the case for CT up to a certain point, depending on how much of Fear had been cleared by the guild you're about to snipe him from, but other than that...

http://i.imgur.com/pyRDD.png

If Xzerion wasn't talking out his ass about expecting TR to take the high road, and you aren't talking out of your ass here, then effective immediately, your guild should stop leapfrogging/sniping targets out from other guilds. Let them attempt. Don't interfere. They out-mobilized you fair and square. THAT is the competition you said you wanted. Feel free to grab the mob after they fail. There would be a lot more respect for the top guilds around here, the server raid scene wouldn't be so miserable, and you might actually have to work to out-mobilize instead of falling back on "No matter, we'll just rush past them and gank Naggy while they pull the last FGs."

I highly suspect you guys are just all talk though about the "higher road" thing, amirite? Because leapfrogging is not the higher road. Once more for good measure from the Project Manager of P99:

http://i.imgur.com/pyRDD.png

yendor I see what you're getting at here of course, but I for one am not going to let another guild dictate to mine when it is appropriate or not appropriate to kill a dragon. And I trust you see where I'm coming from on this as well.

Let's even take CT out of the equation for the time being, given how booter has already demonstrated just how stupid a guild would be to let some other guild clear the entire plane of fear and let them attempt ct if they had happened to have been in there clearing trash when he popped.

Is the definition of efficiency on raid mobs not the ability to kill them as quickly as possible with the personnel available? Should guild A be punished, say, in vox's lair or in KC, because guild B sucks too hard to get to the target in time?

In this sense, would cockblocking another guild from a boss attempt because you are taking your time killing the last two ice giants not in fact be the less fair scenario?

[Zenlina]

Throughout these forums keep hearing other random guild besides the two involved throwing random rant out there. TMO since i have joined it has been civil to most guild besides TR and for good reasons. Maybe that 1-2 time in sky with the taken thing, but the mobs respawns within 2 hours or less anyways so kind of stupid there. With divinity we have been pretty decent with you guys and even offer to help but still not good enough i guess.

Any speculation towards TMO if you are not TR is to me second hand info you guys reading on these forums. This isnt a PR control or anything, just find it abit stupid to judge off some other random persons review from competing guild.

Now so far with TMO if say we hear BDA or divinity or taken or whoever in another plane for example like on the reset, we move onto another boss (Unless its TR of-cause). I have yet to see us try to gang zerg any of any other guilds boss or even us attempting to go into the same zone to snip things as loke puts it. So, unless you experience our dick moves on your raid, please reform from putting us in the same bullshit TR has done to OP.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Is the definition of efficiency on raid mobs not the ability to kill them as quickly as possible with the personnel available? Should guild A be punished, say, in vox's lair or in KC, because guild B sucks too hard to get to the target in time?



Ah, but that's not the point we we're debating here... you're trying to re-direct to "might makes right". I was calling Xzerion and now, by extension you (since you backed up his quote) out that TR is expected to take the higher road. "Might makes right" is not the higher moral road by any sense of the phrase, and I am just exploring whether you and the rest of the TR leadership have seriously deluded yourselves into thinking that.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I'll take it a step further:

Xzerion and Karsten both essentially say that TR is expected to take the higher road. Nilbog confirms the rest of the server's suspicions that it is a dick move to leapfrog other guilds. Therefore, we know that taking the higher road does not include leapfrogging other guilds. So I can think of some possibilities here:

a) TR needs to reign in it's members and hold them accountable for taking the higher road.

b) Xzerion and Karsten are all talk about this "higher road" stuff.

c) TR somehow has deluded themselves into thinking dick moves is taking the higher road.

d) When they said they are expected to take the higher road, we all thought they meant from a moral perspective, but it was meant in a more literal sense as the other guild is busy fighting mobs on the lower road so taking the higher one is the most effective way to leapfrog them.

So, which is it?

[Skope]

heh

skope's still mad we've decided to not just give him free raid mobs

the more text you spew, the clearer that becomes to me and to everyone else, so let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

Karsten, if you're going to put standards on the table that you and your guildleader seem to think you abide by then you should at least live up to them. if we take a look at your guild's behavior over the past 2 months that go against everything you guys said (if you want the details feel free to PM me) then

let's call a spade a spade, shall we?

btw, it's not that you're dicks to us, but because you're so caught up being dicks to TMO and vice versa, you subsequently end up being dicks to everyone.

[druziil]

Is the definition of efficiency on raid mobs not the ability to kill them as quickly as possible with the personnel available? Should guild A be punished, say, in vox's lair or in KC, because guild B sucks too hard to get to the target in time?

You still think your way is the only way and that is fucked up. What makes you the decider of how EQ should be played? Also if you want to talk about efficiency, isn't wasting your free time on a 12 year old emulated game server severely inefficient way to go through life? You guys are such giant hypocrites and outright assholes, and you want us to swallow your poison. Well fuck you.

For the rest of us, the enjoyment comes from having good times doing fun things with friends. How many PoFear clusterfucks or fire giant trains before everyone starts to lose interest in the server? Then who are you going to sell your tradeable dragon loots too?

[karsten]

having good times doing fun things with friends.

that is specifically and virtually solely why I play this or any other game dudes, and anyone who has spent any time with me ought to be quite acutely aware of this fact.

Of course, if the goal is primarily one of social interaction as an intrinsic value rather than a functional value, I'd play the sims

[jarshale]

threads like these make me glad I don't play as much as I did on live

[karsten]

Karsten, if you're going to put standards on the table that you and your guildleader seem to think you abide by then you should at least live up to them. if we take a look at your guild's behavior over the past 2 months that go against everything you guys said (if you want the details feel free to PM me) then

I will venture to say that regardless of the standards that we have and work to adhere to, both in guild culture and policy, they will A: not be what you want and B: as such not really important to need to justify to you.

The cynical person will sorta puh-puh the idea that we care about who we are as a guild entity, but the fact is that we've got people putting a large number of hours striving towards being both competitive and cool. It won't work all the time, and that is also exacerbated by the fact that we're all on the internet in a relatively consequence-free environment, but the fact remains and I would encourage folks to be prescient of that fact.

[visage]

I will venture to say that regardless of the standards that we have and work to adhere to, both in guild culture and policy, they will A: not be what you want and B: as such not really important to need to justify to you.

The cynical person will sorta puh-puh the idea that we care about who we are as a guild entity, but the fact is that we've got people putting a large number of hours striving towards being both competitive and cool. It won't work all the time, and that is also exacerbated by the fact that we're all on the internet in a relatively consequence-free environment, but the fact remains and I would encourage folks to be prescient of that fact.

You mad bro?

[Fists]

Visage is a cum rag cunt fag. Just sayin.

[visage]

Visage is a cum rag cunt fag. Just sayin.

yeah you mad

[Fists]

Karsten dude, first and foremost I like ya, and enjoyed grouping with you a lot when Kunark first came out. Between Yendor and Skope, I don't see any point they are making that is remotely invalid or unfair. Karsten; your retort is to manipulate every word that someone "bashing" you has said and to turn it around to your favor.

I'll restate what Zenlina said a page ago. TMO does not take bosses from other guilds, we simply follow you guys and compete with you, why not do the same with us? TR and TMO have high numbers, some skilled players, and good gear. No doubt both guilds can and do break into fear, pull ct, and burn him b4 the massive train slaughters everyone. To end a semi pointless rant, you should man up, and play nice, not necessarily by the rules. I raided with this crap guild WI before they went back to live and got absorbed into DA. The best moment I ever had on this server was when Divinity, Trans, WI, IB, DA, and BDA we're all competing for the same CT. Let other guilds compete brew, you'll sleep better at night I swear.

[Fists]

since this is in RnF now...

Uthgaard, reading that little pastebin suckfest between the 2 TMO/TR officers and you was like reading a gay penthouse story. Just 3 grown men with their mouths attached to each others scrotums and a lot of weird sexual tension in the air. Seriously, start enforcing that "douchebag" rule or edit the thread and get rid of it.


I fucking love you Skope.


Mythoxxus - TMO

[karsten]

I had a somewhat bigger post made and my comp crashed oh god my life

the main points are:

1. we've all got different versions of what is moral and what isn't, which makes it hard for me to take a person seriously when they appeal to the moral high ground.

2. we've also got different versions of what is fair and what isn't, leading to similar conclusions on my part. In this same vein, we have differing versions of what leapfrogging (for example) is. does it constitute one mob? two? howabout if one guild has 50 at seb entrance and the other guild logs in 50 at trak ledge?

So, to address what you were saying yendor, I understand where you are coming from when you are essentially saying "dude, stop being dicks", yet at the same time I'm somewhat unsure as to how to react, since, again, everyone has their own version of what being a dick means.

I'm somewhat conflict averse, as the people who know me can attest to, but I don't lie down either -- I continue to sense that this is what some of you folks would like us to do. I'm keen on being cool about mobs, which even zeelot can attest to, but sometimes i'm a tad at a loss as to what exactly would make some of you folks happy. Is the moral high ground just sorta sitting back and letting other guilds kill raid mobs? And if we did that, would you be surprised if we still got flamed for somehow becoming magnanimous jerkoffs instead?

[Dravingar]

The best moment I ever had on this server was when Divinity, Trans, WI, IB, DA, and BDA we're all competing for the same CT. Let other guilds compete brew, you'll sleep better at night I swear.

They still can compete, they just have to adapt to the way this server works which is FTE not hand holding we got some people in the zone, so let us have the mob uncontested.

As for TMO, I remember way back when I was in them, we joined up with DA to try for a CT kill where we would not get a single piece of loot just for the fact that it would be spiting IB/DW. Classy stuff indeed.

[Gwence]

Man with all this negative publicity to TR you'd think we'd be hurting. Oh wait, their's like 20 people that read rnf. The funny part about this is all the hate from these other guilds yet if I copied and pasted our app page right now you'd all see a couple people from TMO, a few from Divinity, a couple BDA, some Taken.. etc etc

When more content is released we can seperate ourselves more and this will become a non issue.

I have no hatred for anyone on the server or any guild, I realize everyone just wants to be able to kill bosses because it's fun, but at the same time TR is out to get as much as they can, not necessarily by whatever means they can, but if it isn't against the rules, we're not the type of guild that will stand back and give a mob to someone else. Kudos on all you "noble" folks that will.

[Glitch]

sup gwence

[wrxBRAH]

Tempted to level my druid to 50 just for these. So is loot /random 100 because Im not reading this whole fucking thread.

[aerokella]

Moar qq please. Gogo karsten, keep pissin off skope!

[Gwence]

Glitch! I havent seen prospect in a while =(

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I think as far as 'moral' goes here we all agree leapfrogging is a dick move. Racing for CT or entering fear after another guild is not leapfrogging, that is a different situation. Waiting until a guild pulls Rokyl and then rush past them is leapfogging. If they are pulling the first 2 giants and you run by is not if the target is Nagafen. Waiting for them pull first few giants then running up and tagging Tranix is much the same.

Someone has their raid sitting outside Innoruuks room and is pulling some roamers from there and as they do you rush in to gank Inny is leapfrogging. If they are at the zone in or church and you move up, obviously not.

If a raid is forming for Trakanon at the zone in and you log in at the ledge or run down first it is not leapfrogging. If they are pulling from the door before juggs/reets and your raid logs in at the ledge I would not call that leapfrogging, just smarter positioning. Now if they are at the bridge and are pulling the juggs before Trak and as they pull the last one your raid rushes in to gank Trak that is leapfrogging to me.

Now there are areas that may be gray or disputed but some are clear cut. No one wants or thinks TR should sit back and let other people get all the mobs. I do not want this. It is being respectful of other players. If another raid is in sky setting up for a dojorn pull don't hurry port up and pull it as fast as you can. I would say treat it much the same as normal camps. If they engage within a reasonable time let them try. If they don't engage, then you should be able to. I'm not saying give them an hour to engage but waiting for a guild to pull Rokyl then run someone up past them to claim FTE on Nagafen isn't kosher as far as the majority of this server goes. TR wasn't alone in the situation that has developed as far as the rules and interactions between raid guilds go but you have been in position to affect positive changes.

What SHOULD happen is guilds should get together and agree on common practices and agree about how different situations should be handled. IE what constitutes leapfrogging for each raid mob and what gives someone the right to engage. Some of it would be common sense some may be disagreed upon slightly as you say with a difference of opinion. The agreement should allow for fair competition with respect and courtesy between guilds. It should allow the guilds who are better at mobilizing to maintain the rewards for their skill or effort but at the same time allow other guilds a fair chance at mobs they legitimately mobilized first for. You can work the language all you want but if the guilds come up with an agreement we won't need a GM ruling and a new rule every time a raid mob dies and can avoid countless posts and flames like this post.

[Harrison]

I think as far as 'moral' goes here we all agree leapfrogging is a dick move. Racing for CT or entering fear after another guild is not leapfrogging, that is a different situation. Waiting until a guild pulls Rokyl and then rush past them is leapfogging. If they are pulling the first 2 giants and you run by is not if the target is Nagafen. Waiting for them pull first few giants then running up and tagging Tranix is much the same.

Someone has their raid sitting outside Innoruuks room and is pulling some roamers from there and as they do you rush in to gank Inny is leapfrogging. If they are at the zone in or church and you move up, obviously not.

If a raid is forming for Trakanon at the zone in and you log in at the ledge or run down first it is not leapfrogging. If they are pulling from the door before juggs/reets and your raid logs in at the ledge I would not call that leapfrogging, just smarter positioning. Now if they are at the bridge and are pulling the juggs before Trak and as they pull the last one your raid rushes in to gank Trak that is leapfrogging to me.

Now there are areas that may be gray or disputed but some are clear cut. No one wants or thinks TR should sit back and let other people get all the mobs. I do not want this. It is being respectful of other players. If another raid is in sky setting up for a dojorn pull don't hurry port up and pull it as fast as you can. I would say treat it much the same as normal camps. If they engage within a reasonable time let them try. If they don't engage, then you should be able to. I'm not saying give them an hour to engage but waiting for a guild to pull Rokyl then run someone up past them to claim FTE on Nagafen isn't kosher as far as the majority of this server goes. TR wasn't alone in the situation that has developed as far as the rules and interactions between raid guilds go but you have been in position to affect positive changes.

What SHOULD happen is guilds should get together and agree on common practices and agree about how different situations should be handled. IE what constitutes leapfrogging for each raid mob and what gives someone the right to engage. Some of it would be common sense some may be disagreed upon slightly as you say with a difference of opinion. The agreement should allow for fair competition with respect and courtesy between guilds. It should allow the guilds who are better at mobilizing to maintain the rewards for their skill or effort but at the same time allow other guilds a fair chance at mobs they legitimately mobilized first for. You can work the language all you want but if the guilds come up with an agreement we won't need a GM ruling and a new rule every time a raid mob dies and can avoid countless posts and flames like this post.

We tried this. There is always one guild who won't participate just to fuck over the rest.

It was Fishbait the first time.

Guess where they are now? TMO.

[Fists]

We are not a zergguild at all, we kill every mob on this server with fewer members than you could. Tell me when did we raid with 50-60 people last time?

Seriously dude, just stfu, you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. Get your facts straight next time.

This is rich. You had 55-65 people online for EVERY mob on the rolling repop the other day. Nedala is a dumbass, and I pity TR for having to put up with such a blatant deceitful sack of shit. You come on and post fallacies that are completely and utterly so dumb. Yeyeye.

[Harrison]

Numbers are only relevant if they NEED them to succeed. TR does not.

You don't turn away members from your raids because some lesser zerg guild (TMO/DA/Fishbait) will pull the hypocrisy card and call you unfounded names if you raid with more than necessary.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I also think recruiting members from other guilds is a dick move. Actively trying to steal members as opposed to building up your own. If they want to join another guild that is different from being pestered every day when they log in trying to steal them away.

As far as trying that before Harrison TMO is on the same page as the rest of us. ATM it is TR who is the one not on the same page. And numbers are always relevant you can't do Eye of Veeshan with 6, no matter how skilled you think you are. TR had 45 or so compared to our 32 in sky yesterday as they did Bees up. It doesn't mean they're less skilled, just some mobs need more people.

[Nedala]

I count 45 on our dkp list, and also this was a server respawn at a good time, of course we have more than an average amount of people logging on then, try harder pls :)

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Try harder how? I wasn't flaming TR, I was saying 45 isn't a zerg and just because you have more people it doesn't mean you're zerg or unskilled.

[Skope]

I don't think we're being uncivil or unfair. If you take me as LOLUMAD?, i'm not. I'm always belligerent, but i'm also pretty damn honest and one of the easiest going people on P99.

Karsten, I'll give you the fact that the rules don't help. Their a mess right now and they've got as many gaping flaws now as they did a year ago, but nobody would even discuss them (not to toot my own horn, but i did and i told you so, TOOTOOT) until you guys saw that socking wasn't ever eliminated, just pushed back until you actually saw some competition again and that's why it started. It really isn't any different than the sockfest last year considering how large the windows are and the priority of the target. Clearly the shit's broken and it exacerbates an already shitty and cutthroat raid scene. But that isn't what I'm arguing...

You can only truly discuss that type of shit if you take yourself out of the picture and see how it impacts everyone as a whole, and considering how xzerion went quiet after you guys got another trak (and the TR dumbasses quit whining about poopsocking now that they have their BPs again), I'm inclined to think you guys again don't give 2 shits. Maybe i'm wrong and maybe you do, but if you're not even willing to admit you guys pulled some REALLY douchey moves the past ~2 months or so then what hope is there for having an open discussion about anything else? I explained this shit to Loke before he went all LOLYOUHAVE30MOREPOSTSTHANIDOYOUSTUPIDNOOBLOL on me.

[Nedala]

Try harder how? I wasn't flaming TR, I was saying 45 isn't a zerg and just because you have more people it doesn't mean you're zerg or unskilled.

Sorry, i wasnt refering to you but to fists, i didnt see you had posted in between.

[Ring]

I think as far as 'moral' goes here we all agree leapfrogging is a dick move. Racing for CT or entering fear after another guild is not leapfrogging, that is a different situation. Waiting until a guild pulls Rokyl and then rush past them is leapfogging. If they are pulling the first 2 giants and you run by is not if the target is Nagafen. Waiting for them pull first few giants then running up and tagging Tranix is much the same.

Someone has their raid sitting outside Innoruuks room and is pulling some roamers from there and as they do you rush in to gank Inny is leapfrogging. If they are at the zone in or church and you move up, obviously not.

If a raid is forming for Trakanon at the zone in and you log in at the ledge or run down first it is not leapfrogging. If they are pulling from the door before juggs/reets and your raid logs in at the ledge I would not call that leapfrogging, just smarter positioning. Now if they are at the bridge and are pulling the juggs before Trak and as they pull the last one your raid rushes in to gank Trak that is leapfrogging to me.

Now there are areas that may be gray or disputed but some are clear cut. No one wants or thinks TR should sit back and let other people get all the mobs. I do not want this. It is being respectful of other players. If another raid is in sky setting up for a dojorn pull don't hurry port up and pull it as fast as you can. I would say treat it much the same as normal camps. If they engage within a reasonable time let them try. If they don't engage, then you should be able to. I'm not saying give them an hour to engage but waiting for a guild to pull Rokyl then run someone up past them to claim FTE on Nagafen isn't kosher as far as the majority of this server goes. TR wasn't alone in the situation that has developed as far as the rules and interactions between raid guilds go but you have been in position to affect positive changes.


Your whole post is arbitrary bullshit. There's no way to establish what is and isn't leapfrogging, what is / isn't a douchebag move without the whole server chiming in. Why don't you just learn to play by the established FTE rules and get on with your lives.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

There is a way you dolt. You have the guild leaders of any legitimate raid force sit down, and I guarantee you it will end up fair and most likely similar to live.

[Skope]

It is unfortunate that TMO has to sink to the level of TR but for us to compete we have to sink to the lowest common denominator to get mobs.

I apologize to any other guild and we honestly dislike to TR comparison being made but we understand WHY its being made.

I hope in the coming months when the raid scene has calmed down a bit and if VP opens we can all step back a bit with the ultra-competitiveness and try and be a little kinder to the smaller guilds.

TMO is in the process of finishing our Naggy alt force but i doubt we will put too much interest in it compared to the guilds who are trying to get into the raid scene or TR who is just killing them to stifle other guilds.

^^ and that came from the one dude who baits your members to incessant flamefests on the forums. Even though it's STILL riddled with verbal doodoo, i can sense a somewhat sincere thought amongst the pile of smelly poo, and it sort of looks like he understands where a lot of us are coming from. He couldn't resist a jab or two, just like you guys can't, but at least he's willing to admit that there's an issue at hand.

[Ring]

There is a way you dolt. You have the guild leaders of any legitimate raid force sit down, and I guarantee you it will end up fair and most likely similar to live.

Good luck with that chump

[Fists]

Nedala, this is why you are retarded, and a hypocrite. Cite back 8 pages to your post about how TMO zergs and how you guys are so great and never show up with over 40. Do you see what you did there? You A. completely invalidated your point 8 pages ago with this new post, B. make your guild look retarded with excuse after excuse, and C. make me laugh. NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE, and as a TMO member, am speaking as a whole for TMO. No one gives a fuck about how few or how many you have. Your posts are pointless.

[Harrison]

Nedala, this is why you are retarded, and a hypocrite. Cite back 8 pages to your post about how TMO zergs and how you guys are so great and never show up with over 40. Do you see what you did there? You A. completely invalidated your point 8 pages ago with this new post, B. make your guild look retarded with excuse after excuse, and C. make me laugh. NO ONE, I repeat NO ONE, and as a TMO member, am speaking as a whole for TMO. No one gives a fuck about how few or how many you have. Your posts are pointless.

one big contradiction lol

You seem to care, lots.

[Dravingar]

There is a way you dolt. You have the guild leaders of any legitimate raid force sit down, and I guarantee you it will end up fair and most likely similar to live.

You do know that leapfrogging, KS"ing, Training, Highsunning, killing triggers, kiting, etc...etc.. happened on live servers right? I'd actually even say that it happens less here than it did on live.

[Skope]

You do know that leapfrogging, KS"ing, Training, Highsunning, killing triggers, kiting, etc...etc.. happened on live servers right? I'd actually even say that it happens less here than it did on live.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14667

except for the douchebag rule -- it's there to take up space

[Dravingar]

Q: What classifies a mob as "Engaged"?
A: A mob is classified as engaged as long as it has aggro on at least one player.

Q: Can we camp raid mobs?
A: If you choose to lay a claim to an unspawned raid npc, your raid must be at the npc's spawn point with sufficient force. (within aggro range of the npc when it spawns, with at least a 15 member raid party). e.g. (inside Nagafen's Lair) This is the ONLY way claims of unspawned raid targets will be respected.

Q: Both raids got here simultaneously. What do we do?
A: In the rare case that both raids feel they got there first than you can work out a compromise on your own.

And those are the rules which weren't broken.

I was just pointing out he claimed live was a land where guilds worked together and held hands skipping off into the sunset.

I, on the other hand remember how it actually was which was way worse than this server due to GM's actually caring if you train/get trained/KS"d.

[Skope]

exactly on what? your server? some servers leapfrogging would get you ported out. On others there was a calendar-based rotation and on some servers it was FFA. The thing about both guilds chatting and working it out on their own is why i've been calling uthgaard a pussy, because when you and TMO can't work it out he's (and others) to pander to your crap instead of deleting the loot and porting you both out.

Also , your personal experience means squat :/

[Skope]

he's there*

[bluejam]

What makes you the decider of how EQ should be played?
:confused:

[Dravingar]

There will never be a compromise though, no one likes giving away BiS items.

[Skope]

There will never be a compromise though, no one likes giving away BiS items.

Read up on that little snippet i gave you from our forums. Replace "no one" with "we" and you've got an accurate statement

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Now you are right in saying good luck, all I am saying is there is a difference between unlikely and impossible. And Dravingar I played a few servers and I rarely saw this. And it was always the exception. I did see nasty fights in ssra where on guild would clog the door the emp area to stop another guilds progression, GMs ended that. Let me ask you this, is griefing allowed here?

[Rais]

Hearing you in Teamspeak vent over people you accused of using Showeq because they out pull you, and other events. Also having to read your 1000 word essays to see you make 1 point, yes I think griefing is allowed.

[deakolt]

WHAT MAKES YOU TELL ME WHY I CAN KILL THE DRAGON UPRIGHT AT NIGHT

[JenJen]

bischy takin out the trash on terrible monks since 1999

[Loke]

Allow me to bring people up to speed. In fear if you had mobs on side of the fire wall and you on the other, it was an instant aggro clear, as if it was a physical barrier. Combine that with instant aggro wipe here, and it was easy cheesy. It was used to make an easy temple pull split and Firehead when he was online with Transcendence clued me in on that on p99. Now back then Draco was always a race but after I showed DA people how to use the fire wall I started seeing IB or TR whatever using this for draco. No need to split off mobs, you could just train thru the fire wall and FD when draco was on your side. Instant aggro wipe from old fd, nothing behind the fire wall would aggro when you tagged so you can see how it made an early draco pull easy.

Here is where your tin foil hat comes in. I petitioned about the fire wall and made an offhand remark in the course of just conversing about the 'bug' and I mentioned that I think they stole that idea and used it to get quick draco pulls because it was the first time I saw them use it, after I showed some DA people. The tin foil hat part? I was responding to an answered petition. I didn't post here or tell any of TR that they 'stole my strat'. And cheat at every turn might be a reference to the petitions I have put in about mysterious trains that seemingly come from nowhere when a TR member decides to come sit by us at FG or reets juggs. Mobs that come out of nowhere and train through us as they vanish from camping or whatever. Those were petitioned, not mentioned to TR. There is some tinfoil hat for you.

Don't be fooled by their transparent attempts at painting me to be the bad guy. They have been pulling stunts in game left and right for over a year and their 'attitude' isn't anything new. It wasn't Shaere that suddenly made them start leapfrogging or pulling all the other stunts they do and behaving in the manner I cursed them for. My flames were in direct response to things they did. You don't want anyone taking 'potshots' quit lying, cheating, stealing your way through the game. The next I am approached about a guild rotation or calendar possibility be serious and quit trying to use it to manipulate your way into VP first. I was the one approached and as soon as TR got a few trak kills crickets, not a word more about it. This Nagafen stunt is an attempt to ensure they get some loot and recruit people that is all, don't be fooled. They have had plenty of chances to be the good guys and not ONCE before Shaere became their target did they step up.

But your words mean nothing, show us with your actions in game. People have been flaming you for a long time here and you just now decide to try saying I am the reason for your actions over the past year? How about when you guys roll into fear and kill CT we had cleared to? We didn't flame or say anything because we wiped and you guys didn't leapfrog or anything. We didn't like it but we wiped ourselves so no one to flame. But then you pricks post it on your site with a shot at us "Thanks for clearing fear for us Taken." and are surprised when I grow angry? And when I reply, now I'm the one taking potshots? You started it with that recruiting video post and tag and if you don't want anyone to call you out on your behavior quit pulling garbage like that. So if you want me to stop maybe you should stop and giving people things to point at. Play fair and quit trying to manipulate the server for your own good.

Yeah I'm the one on this server screwing everything up... ignorant dolt.

I haven't caught up reading this thread yet, but just had to post about this. Shaere, am I to believe that you think you invented Line of Sight splitting? The fire wall in fear, the steam things in sol b, the spider webs in sol b, fucking corners for christ sake.. all of these work on the exact same principle. I'm glad you revolutionized pulling in everquest 12 years after the game was released.

[Loke]

I also think recruiting members from other guilds is a dick move.

Anyone remember Transcendence? bahahahaha.

You are seriously about the biggest hypocrite I have ever had the displeasure of associating with.

[Asher]

Is it too much to ask to have Guild Leaders talk amongst themselves like adults and decide how raids should be handled. What is acceptable behaviour and what is not?

Asher

[Bubbles]

Now you are right in saying good luck, all I am saying is there is a difference between unlikely and impossible. And Dravingar I played a few servers and I rarely saw this. And it was always the exception. I did see nasty fights in ssra where on guild would clog the door the emp area to stop another guilds progression, GMs ended that. Let me ask you this, is griefing allowed here?

When VP is released and the 30 guilds that "don't matter" stack up their naked ogres in front of the ramp, we'll find out for sure.

[Glitch]

Sorry, Bubbles.

Only one guild on p99 matters: Dangerous Glitch.

[YendorLootmonkey]

1. we've all got different versions of what is moral and what isn't, which makes it hard for me to take a person seriously when they appeal to the moral high ground.

I would like to think we are all mature enough to determine the difference between right and wrong here if we stand back and look objectively at the situation and forget about the precious pixels for one damn second.

If you wouldn't want it done to you if you were in another guild's position, then you're not taking the moral high ground. If your first instinct is "well, how can we bend or lawyer the rules in order to still get what we want?" then you're not taking the moral high ground.

Do not sit here and tell me that Xzerion and now you earlier in this thread just held your guild to the expectation that they take the higher road, and then you just came here and backpedaled "welllll... about that.... what IS the higher road REALLY?" or "Well, despite the entire server telling us we're being dicks, that's totally subjective, so that's completely irrelevant and we don't give a shit what you think, we're getting the raid targets and you're not, hahaha!" when you realized that might mean you should stop leapfrogging if you were truly genuine about that statement.

2. we've also got different versions of what is fair and what isn't, leading to similar conclusions on my part. In this same vein, we have differing versions of what leapfrogging (for example) is. does it constitute one mob? two? howabout if one guild has 50 at seb entrance and the other guild logs in 50 at trak ledge?

You know precisely what you're doing when you go in to snipe a mob, so stop pretending like you need to have a set of parameters around it. I refuse to believe that you guys have been doing this "whatever it takes" thing for so long that you lack the moral compass to determine what's a dick move or not.

sometimes i'm a tad at a loss as to what exactly would make some of you folks happy. Is the moral high ground just sorta sitting back and letting other guilds kill raid mobs?

No one is saying you need to sit back and let other guilds kill raid mobs. You have completely demonstrated that you have the manpower and will to out-mobilize every other guild (in most cases) on this server to a raid target. Congrats, you win EQ. Well done. That's fine... shame on us for not having the same level of intense desire or commitment or whatever you want to call it.

But when another guild does get their chance to grab something because they were in the right place at the right time, or heaven forbid they manage to out-mobilize you, they shouldn't have to also worry about how TR is going to snipe it out from under them or rules-lawyer the loot away with GM intervention on some technicality because somehow out-mobilizing every other guild to a raid target 95% of the time isn't enough for you that you have to be douchey when someone actually has to gall to take a shot at "one of your mobs".

What the hell is wrong with "Grats guys, you got there first this time... we will beat you next time!" and hanging out to grab the mob in case they fail? Why is it such a slap in the face to the members of your guild that another guild actually formed up or started the pull or whatever the situation is?

Why does it have to be "Well, they have the mob incoming... go outaggro their puller" or "They just pulled the last few FGs, rush Naggy NOW!" or "Run up and be FTE so we can petition for the loot after they do all the work in killing the dragon!"?

Or was it "we expect our members to take the higher road, unless a raid target is involved, then in that case... fuck you all!" Because if it is, fine... but just call it like it is so we don't expect anything more out of you.

You proved you can get the raid mobs with "might makes right". Now my challenge to you (and every guild in the position to do so) is to get the raid mobs while remaining respected by the rest of the server. I know you can do it... I remember IB/DW sitting patiently on Isle 5 waiting for VD to take our first few attempts at the Spiroc Lord. You could have sniped it after we wiped the first time so you could start pulling Isle 6, but you didn't. You gave us our fair shot. Sure it probably wasn't a priority mob for you, but you made a decision to take the higher road there.

We all would just like to see that more often. From all the raid guilds. Respect for the raid force already there. Less trying to bend the rules on technicalities to claim "ownership" to mobs when a raid force was clearly there first. Missing a goddamn raid target is not going to kill you guys, and it would mean a lot more to the players who got to stop worrying about what dick was going to get pulled on them.

Am I telling you to give up raid targets? No. I'm telling you to break off pursuit after another raid force has clearly made their move for one and, next time, do that thing you all pride yourselves on doing and out-mobilize them to the next one. There will always be a next one!

I'll tell you one thing... it would make the server a lot more fun for everyone instead of bleak and miserable, and there will be far more people sticking around on this server longer if logging in and clearing most of Fear just to have TR rush in and gank CT right in front of them didn't continuously sap their will to log in.

[God-King Abacab]

I would like to think we are all mature enough to determine the difference between right and wrong here if we stand back and look objectively at the situation and forget about the precious pixels for one damn second.

If you wouldn't want it done to you if you were in another guild's position, then you're not taking the moral high ground. If your first instinct is "well, how can we bend or lawyer the rules in order to still get what we want?" then you're not taking the moral high ground.

Do not sit here and tell me that Xzerion and now you earlier in this thread just held your guild to the expectation that they take the higher road, and then you just came here and backpedaled "welllll... about that.... what IS the higher road REALLY?" or "Well, despite the entire server telling us we're being dicks, that's totally subjective, so that's completely irrelevant and we don't give a shit what you think, we're getting the raid targets and you're not, hahaha!" when you realized that might mean you should stop leapfrogging if you were truly genuine about that statement.



You know precisely what you're doing when you go in to snipe a mob, so stop pretending like you need to have a set of parameters around it. I refuse to believe that you guys have been doing this "whatever it takes" thing for so long that you lack the moral compass to determine what's a dick move or not.



No one is saying you need to sit back and let other guilds kill raid mobs. You have completely demonstrated that you have the manpower and will to out-mobilize every other guild (in most cases) on this server to a raid target. Congrats, you win EQ. Well done. That's fine... shame on us for not having the same level of intense desire or commitment or whatever you want to call it.

But when another guild does get their chance to grab something because they were in the right place at the right time, or heaven forbid they manage to out-mobilize you, they shouldn't have to also worry about how TR is going to snipe it out from under them or rules-lawyer the loot away with GM intervention on some technicality because somehow out-mobilizing every other guild to a raid target 95% of the time isn't enough for you that you have to be douchey when someone actually has to gall to take a shot at "one of your mobs".

What the hell is wrong with "Grats guys, you got there first this time... we will beat you next time!" and hanging out to grab the mob in case they fail? Why is it such a slap in the face to the members of your guild that another guild actually formed up or started the pull or whatever the situation is?

Why does it have to be "Well, they have the mob incoming... go outaggro their puller" or "They just pulled the last few FGs, rush Naggy NOW!" or "Run up and be FTE so we can petition for the loot after they do all the work in killing the dragon!"?

Or was it "we expect our members to take the higher road, unless a raid target is involved, then in that case... fuck you all!" Because if it is, fine... but just call it like it is so we don't expect anything more out of you.

You proved you can get the raid mobs with "might makes right". Now my challenge to you (and every guild in the position to do so) is to get the raid mobs while remaining respected by the rest of the server. I know you can do it... I remember IB/DW sitting patiently on Isle 5 waiting for VD to take our first few attempts at the Spiroc Lord. You could have sniped it after we wiped the first time so you could start pulling Isle 6, but you didn't. You gave us our fair shot. Sure it probably wasn't a priority mob for you, but you made a decision to take the higher road there.

We all would just like to see that more often. From all the raid guilds. Respect for the raid force already there. Less trying to bend the rules on technicalities to claim "ownership" to mobs when a raid force was clearly there first. Missing a goddamn raid target is not going to kill you guys, and it would mean a lot more to the players who got to stop worrying about what dick was going to get pulled on them.

Am I telling you to give up raid targets? No. I'm telling you to break off pursuit after another raid force has clearly made their move for one and, next time, do that thing you all pride yourselves on doing and out-mobilize them to the next one. There will always be a next one!

I'll tell you one thing... it would make the server a lot more fun for everyone instead of bleak and miserable, and there will be far more people sticking around on this server longer if logging in and clearing most of Fear just to have TR rush in and gank CT right in front of them didn't continuously sap their will to log in.


This happened on live back in the day, this happens on the progression servers, this happens here. There is no real repercussion for abhorrent behavior because there is no need to be involved in the community outside your own guild. So you'll get groups of people attempting to out play another group by any means necessary be it legit or not.

But this shit never happened on the PvP servers, because you could regulate the situation. You gave it your all and if you managed to dislodge your rival from the zone then congratulations you eliminated their ability to mess up your raid by sending them right back to East Commons. This however cannot happen here, you cannot protect your assests and will always be at the mercy of a train or a snipe because you cannot enforce your right of attempt

[YendorLootmonkey]

TL;DR that massive wall of bullshit text you quoted.

[Tiggles]

TL;DR that massive wall of bullshit text you quoted.

i skimmed.

[Knuckle]

karsten is a military science major

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I didn't invent pulling on p99 but I would wager some of what is out there yes, by me back in live. Are you so ignorant to think there wasn't someone who first used a da idol tank cleric at some point? Or thought up the ch chain? Assist aggro pulling? Sneak pulling? And countless other things you think are your leet skillz?

And I have no clue what you're talking about I never recruited anyone from another guild. Hell when IB and Trans were talking merger we were being recruited behind the scenes, what the hell are you talking about? You all hurt because you guys pulled some shit and I went off on you? When have any of you had an original thought, or do you just take what people say in your little circle as gospel? Or did you finally pick on the wrong person?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

When VP is released and the 30 guilds that "don't matter" stack up their naked ogres in front of the ramp, we'll find out for sure.

I was asking Miley because if they are deliberately ganking mobs leapfrogging or killing mobs they have no need for just to starve other guilds it kind of fits the definition of griefing, no?

[God-King Abacab]

TL;DR that massive wall of bullshit text you quoted.

Well at least you're aware that what you type is bullshit, and a massive wall at that.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Well at least you're aware that what you type is bullshit, and a massive wall at that.

Eh, not really. Pretty sure a lot of people feel the same way about what I posted. I just thought it'd be funny to call myself out. :)

But what's going on now is certainly not "taking the high road" as was claimed. At any rate, to Karsten... thank you for at least listening/reading.

[karsten]

well, again, I enjoy a harmonious atmosphere as much as the next guy, but I'm sensing that you still don't want to respect the fact that "playing fair" or "moral" as it pertains to your understanding is different than someone elses, and at the end of the day I answer to the people in my guild rather than to the ones in yours.

[Bubbles]

I was asking Miley because if they are deliberately ganking mobs leapfrogging or killing mobs they have no need for just to starve other guilds it kind of fits the definition of griefing, no?

And all i was poking fun at was the fact that an army of naked ogres could literally wall off Veeshan's Peak using the elite skills of this server.. Sitting more than 15 at the spawn point. Being first to engage. Discouraging (hell eliminating) leapfrogging. And yes, you could keep sending bard n monk trains of skyfire mobs to flush them out, but if enough people were still waiting with ogres.. I mean.. It'd take a lot of Larrikam Masks and sow potions.. but properly buffed with reinforcements in tow..

It would be some serious ironing.

[druziil]

And all i was poking fun at was the fact that an army of naked ogres could literally wall off Veeshan's Peak using the elite skills of this server.. Sitting more than 15 at the spawn point. Being first to engage. Discouraging (hell eliminating) leapfrogging. And yes, you could keep sending bard n monk trains of skyfire mobs to flush them out, but if enough people were still waiting with ogres.. I mean.. It'd take a lot of Larrikam Masks and sow potions.. but properly buffed with reinforcements in tow..

It would be some serious ironing.

Except the only people that would really be interested in wasting that much of their time just to fuck over other guilds, are the people who are getting VP keys.

[karsten]

druziil makes a valid point!

[YendorLootmonkey]

well, again, I enjoy a harmonious atmosphere as much as the next guy, but I'm sensing that you still don't want to respect the fact that "playing fair" or "moral" as it pertains to your understanding is different than someone elses, and at the end of the day I answer to the people in my guild rather than to the ones in yours.

Because your definition of playing fair or taking the moral high ground includes the caveats "unless it makes us miss out on a raid target" and "so long as the rules specifically do not prohibit it."

The leadership of TR makes these decisions. You lead the guild, the guild does not lead you. You could end the douchebaggery TODAY if you started holding members of your guild accountable for that higher road. But you choose not to, which means that higher road Xzerion mentioned is just all talk. Disappointing as hell... but it is what it is. If you need a set of rules to tell you what is or isn't a dick move to another guild, then I guess there's no point in trying to hold you accountable for the "higher road" claim if all the roads look the same to you.

[karsten]

ok but we're going around in circles now, because you keep focusing on other guilds adhering to your understanding of a moral high ground and I keep pointing out why that's categorically impractical

[Bruman]

ok but we're going around in circles now, because you keep focusing on other guilds adhering to your understanding of a moral high ground and I keep pointing out why that's categorically impractical

Yeah except it's not. You keep hiding behind this fake-wall of "BUT WE DONT KNOW WHATS MORAL OR NOT".

There's really no point in continuing this discussion. Everyone else gets it, and Karsten is wanting to "play stupid" as an excuse for training and leap frogging.

There's some gray area there, sure - but it's nowhere near as wide as you're pretending it to be.

<Philosopher>
You cannot control other people's actions - only your own. Everyone has to be the example that they want other people to be. When you do douchey things because someone else did them, you're a lesser person because of it, and you've allowed them to control you.

Pick YOUR high ground. Don't worry if Guild A wouldn't pick it. Make the effort to be more morally higher than others. Kill them with kindness. Who cares if you lose some pixels? At least you're not swimming in a bag of vinegar.
</Philosopher>

[Bruman]

Bah, can't edit in RnF. I had the last two paragraphs enclosed in fake "Philospher" tags.

[karsten]

Yeah except it's not. You keep hiding behind this fake-wall of "BUT WE DONT KNOW WHATS MORAL OR NOT".

don't put words into my mouth buddy. I keep saying that my version is different than person B's is different than person C's. Tell me, with a straight face, that that's not true.

There's really no point in continuing this discussion. Everyone else gets it, and Karsten is wanting to "play stupid" as an excuse for training and leap frogging.

Have you been reading this thread?

Pick YOUR high ground. Don't worry if Guild A wouldn't pick it. Make the effort to be more morally higher than others. Kill them with kindness. Who cares if you lose some pixels? At least you're not swimming in a bag of vinegar.

That is in fact precisely what I, and others who run our guild do. If you feel differently about that, then we are once again back at my original and main point.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Yeah except it's not. You keep hiding behind this fake-wall of "BUT WE DONT KNOW WHATS MORAL OR NOT".

There's really no point in continuing this discussion. Everyone else gets it, and Karsten is wanting to "play stupid" as an excuse for training and leap frogging.

There's some gray area there, sure - but it's nowhere near as wide as you're pretending it to be.



Okay, glad i'm not the only one seeing it that way. But you're right... Karsten is going to refuse to even consider what taking a high road might be if it nets TR one less raid target than the norm. So let's just call a spade a spade. Big talk, but not willing to put the phat lewts where his mouth is. That is the ultimate issue. They don't care about the health of the server or its community. Why should they? Things seem perfectly healthy to them. Until everyone gets sick of being leapfrogged or sniped or rules-lawyered and then the only people left on the server are 100 or so TR with no one but themselves to impress. Is that the end goal here?

[Bruman]

don't put words into my mouth buddy. I keep saying that my version is different than person B's is different than person C's. Tell me, with a straight face, that that's not true.

Have you been reading this thread?

That is in fact precisely what I, and others who run our guild do. If you feel differently about that, then we are once again back at my original and main point.

Too lazy to break up quotes, but we can continue!

I'm not your buddy, friend. But yes - that's definitely true. However, I wouldn't use that as a reason to not continue to attempt to run on that moral high ground. Which it seems like you're doing with some of your posts. You say you answer to your guild, instead of your guild answering to you. As an officer, I'd just assume you would tell them to take the highest moral road you can find. It feels like you want to say "Because Guild X would leap frog us while we're clearing juggs, we should do it to them".

Perhaps what you're saying is more of "We're going to do it, but when another guild does it to us, we'll retaliate" - and that's where we'd make different decisions, being in the same situation.

I generally have pretty low respect for TMO (they have a few excellent members I've grouped with, and would highly recommend, and some are fun to joke around with, but unfortunately 90% of the ones I've encountered have been very poor players with even worse attitudes...and spelling). The couple of times we ran into them while raiding further cemented that.

On the opposite of that, I used to keep a pretty high respect with TR - while I never really grouped with any of you (well, except ex-guildies who have joined you now, and some people I grouped with before they were in TR), I didn't have any incidents of raids clashing (except one time, that was more of a /facepalm on you guys than anything). But lately, the threads and flaming have dragged you guys down. You guys obviously have done some more questionable things in the nastiness that went on with TMO, to match their tactics, as well as some childish petty arguments. And that was a shame.

FWIW - I know my opinion doesn't mean shit. You guys have no reason to care what some "scrub BDA monk" thinks. But I know it's not just me - but you still probably don't care what others think either, which is your choice.

If you're trying to get a reign back in on things, then I congratulate you for it. There's been one or two times in BDA where I didn't like what we did, and I didn't voice my opinion on it, and felt bad about it. We didn't train another guild or anything like that, but one or two petty things that I wouldn't have done. Now I voice it - and since then, those things haven't happened again. If they happen again in the future, I know at least I tried to prevent it.

[Tiggles]

Too lazy to break up quotes, but we can continue!

I'm not your buddy, friend. But yes - that's definitely true. However, I wouldn't use that as a reason to not continue to attempt to run on that moral high ground. Which it seems like you're doing with some of your posts. You say you answer to your guild, instead of your guild answering to you. As an officer, I'd just assume you would tell them to take the highest moral road you can find. It feels like you want to say "Because Guild X would leap frog us while we're clearing juggs, we should do it to them".

Perhaps what you're saying is more of "We're going to do it, but when another guild does it to us, we'll retaliate" - and that's where we'd make different decisions, being in the same situation.

I generally have pretty low respect for TMO (they have a few excellent members I've grouped with, and would highly recommend, and some are fun to joke around with, but unfortunately 90% of the ones I've encountered have been very poor players with even worse attitudes...and spelling). The couple of times we ran into them while raiding further cemented that.

On the opposite of that, I used to keep a pretty high respect with TR - while I never really grouped with any of you (well, except ex-guildies who have joined you now, and some people I grouped with before they were in TR), I didn't have any incidents of raids clashing (except one time, that was more of a /facepalm on you guys than anything). But lately, the threads and flaming have dragged you guys down. You guys obviously have done some more questionable things in the nastiness that went on with TMO, to match their tactics, as well as some childish petty arguments. And that was a shame.

FWIW - I know my opinion doesn't mean shit. You guys have no reason to care what some "scrub BDA monk" thinks. But I know it's not just me - but you still probably don't care what others think either, which is your choice.

If you're trying to get a reign back in on things, then I congratulate you for it. There's been one or two times in BDA where I didn't like what we did, and I didn't voice my opinion on it, and felt bad about it. We didn't train another guild or anything like that, but one or two petty things that I wouldn't have done. Now I voice it - and since then, those things haven't happened again. If they happen again in the future, I know at least I tried to prevent it.

Shut up

[visage]

Okay, glad i'm not the only one seeing it that way. But you're right... Karsten is going to refuse to even consider what taking a high road might be if it nets TR one less raid target than the norm. So let's just call a spade a spade. Big talk, but not willing to put the phat lewts where his mouth is. That is the ultimate issue. They don't care about the health of the server or its community. Why should they? Things seem perfectly healthy to them. Until everyone gets sick of being leapfrogged or sniped or rules-lawyered and then the only people left on the server are 100 or so TR with no one but themselves to impress. Is that the end goal here?

Karsten is probably one of the biggest faggot douches on the server. personally i'd love to meet him in RL to give him a royal ass whooping. For being such a prick headed cock suck.

[Bruman]

Shut up

Tiggles, I thought we were BFFs :(

[Asher]

don't put words into my mouth buddy. I keep saying that my version is different than person B's is different than person C's. Tell me, with a straight face, that that's not true.



Have you been reading this thread?



That is in fact precisely what I, and others who run our guild do. If you feel differently about that, then we are once again back at my original and main point.

I think that you will find most other guilds will agree with what Bruman and Yendor have been saying.

You can keep telling yourself that you take the moral high ground and all the other guilds can keep laughing.

Even TMO doesn't pull the shit your guild does.


Asher

[Harrison]

Karsten is probably one of the biggest faggot douches on the server. personally i'd love to meet him in RL to give him a royal ass whooping. For being such a prick headed cock suck.

False, Karsten is one of the cooler people I've met on the server.

P.S. I've seen your picture. You aren't whooping any ass unless your idea of whooping is with your dick.

[karsten]

Karsten is probably one of the biggest faggot douches on the server. personally i'd love to meet him in RL to give him a royal ass whooping. So I can suck his cock.

no thanks, I don't do gay porn, pycoba




not that there's anything wrong with that, i mean, if that's your thing

[karsten]

oh, and apparently it is

[karsten]

I think that you will find most other guilds will agree with what Bruman and Yendor have been saying.


asher, i don't disagree with you, and I also understand why this is the case. It's important to me to demonstrate why this is the case, however, and it does boil down to something I often call "New York Yankees" syndrome. Also often termed "Los Angeles Lakers" syndrome. If we have,let's say, 800 people on the server and 60 people in TR, then it of course follows that the majority will feel that TR gets too much and they get too little.

Again, I don't know what to say to that. People who interact with me recognize me as a normal dude who enjoys a good troll but also won't tolerate an inappropriate one. I can't regulate the reactions of all the random people who feel themselves affected by the actions of my guild, however, which is why I also am not going to bow to the whims of yendor today and then the whims of you tomorrow.

You want people who have put in the time on this server to win a bunch of mobs to stop being dicks to the people who haven't. Well you lucked out, because we, and I want to emphasize everyone's favorite pariah, xzerion, aren't. As I've mentioned a few times before: we'll fight you for every mob, we love playing everquest and slaying dragons.

NOT THAT THERES ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT

[Harrison]

I didn't have any problem with TR until this thread.

"We tried to snake Nagafen just to be pricks." leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

[Abrok]

Off on a tangent again?

They are not arguing that you do not deserve to be the best. They are arguing your methods.

It seems as if you dropped your moral compass along this road to raiding greatness and do not give a fuck that it is broken anymore. That is, unless someone is approaching you with handcuffs.

From what I've read though, which is unfortunate, unless the GMs change up the rules and force you to not do some of the "douchey" things others claim you are doing, I do not see you changing anything. And I would bet the GMs did not even want to put in rules like the 15 man or FTE. They probably expected the people that would end up here to be civilized and mature. Can we get a little love for the people who let you come in and ruin their pretty, little, simulated world?

[karsten]

ahh, I understand now. Abrok, from now on we'll use your methods and your moral compass. thanks!

[Asher]

Off on a tangent again?

They are not arguing that you do not deserve to be the best. They are arguing your methods.

It seems as if you dropped your moral compass along this road to raiding greatness and do not give a fuck that it is broken anymore. That is, unless someone is approaching you with handcuffs.

From what I've read though, which is unfortunate, unless the GMs change up the rules and force you to not do some of the "douchey" things others claim you are doing, I do not see you changing anything. And I would bet the GMs did not even want to put in rules like the 15 man or FTE. They probably expected the people that would end up here to be civilized and mature. Can we get a little love for the people who let you come in and ruin their pretty, little, simulated world?

I was going to respond to Karsten but this pretty much sums it up.

Asher

[Cyrano]

Okay, glad i'm not the only one seeing it that way. But you're right... Karsten is going to refuse to even consider what taking a high road might be if it nets TR one less raid target than the norm. So let's just call a spade a spade. Big talk, but not willing to put the phat lewts where his mouth is. That is the ultimate issue. They don't care about the health of the server or its community. Why should they? Things seem perfectly healthy to them. Until everyone gets sick of being leapfrogged or sniped or rules-lawyered and then the only people left on the server are 100 or so TR with no one but themselves to impress. Is that the end goal here?

How is letting TMO recruit every person around then sit on spawns taking the high road? You play this game to compete, not to be fuckin carebears who hug and pat one another on the back when one guild kills a mob. You guys want the original EQ experience, this is all part of it. If you want something, go get it.

[Asher]

ahh, I understand now. Abrok, from now on we'll use your methods and your moral compass. thanks!

It doesn't bother you at all that everyone else has a problem with your sniping/leapfrogging tactics? Why does every non-TR person seem to think it isn't right?

Whether it is permitted by GMs or not it is a dick move. If you care what the community thinks of your guild you may want to reconsider.

Asher

[Asher]

How is letting TMO recruit every person around then sit on spawns taking the high road? You play this game to compete, not to be fuckin carebears who hug and pat one another on the back when one guild kills a mob. You guys want the original EQ experience, this is all part of it. If you want something, go get it.

This was not the original EQ experience on Prexus while I was there.

Asher

[visage]

False, Karsten is one of the cooler people I've met on the server.

P.S. I've seen your picture. You aren't whooping any ass unless your idea of whooping is with your dick.

We'll I don't know him all to well. Therefore I will reject my comments and insights on him. Only because I respect you enough to trust your insight. As far as whooping as with my dick << I'm all for it. =P

[Skope]

This was not the original EQ experience on Prexus while I was there.

Asher

bingo. get rid of the 4 day variance please. It kept away poopsocking for maybe a month or two and has done more harm than good since last summer. Want more competition? go classic. Fuck quitting my job to track, you can suck my left nut (don't you dare touch my right one).

[Skope]

Karsten, i seem to recall a cool guy who watched poopsocking go down last summer and the crap that ensued from afar (about an ocean away) and thought to himself "If I led a guild we wouldn't stoop down to that shitty level," in fact I believe his name was Karsten. It seems you're having just a bit of trouble understanding the argument and we keep walking ourselves in circles, and i fucking hate ballroom dancing. So in true RnF spirit, I will interpret this magnificent threadzor in a fashion that can be seen as an analogy to the current arguments and the counterarguments -- but with an RnF spin. Perhaps a dramatic play?

This shit's for real!

Scene II

Carebear noobie 1: Karsten, maybe you guys shouldn't be raping chickens... it just seems wrong.

Karsten: Nothing in the town's laws states that raping chickens is wrong. Why the hate bro?

Carebear noobie 2: Dude... you're fucking chickens? When has that shit ever been right?

Karsten: Listen, back where I'm from you could rape all the poultry you wanted and nobody said a word.

Carebear noobie 1: But that's where you're from... I mean, we never thought anyone in their right mind would come down here and start fucking chickens so we never thought any laws outlawing the raping of winged-table meat was necessary.

Mayor of Dandy Ol' Town (Nilbl0rg): Raping chickens is pretty douchie, dude. You might catch the avian flu.

Karsten: Listen, just because you think something is wrong doesn't mean everybody does. I think the chickens might enjoy it, actually. I mean, morality is such a touchy subject that's so...

Carebear noobies and the Mayor in unison: Will you just quit fucking chickens already!?!?

Karsten: I know that you guys don't like it, and I get that, but I only listen to my fellow chickenfuckers.

AND SCENE!

it seems like act III may be soon to follow. stay tuned

[visage]

Karsten, i seem to recall a cool guy who watched poopsocking go down last summer and the crap that ensued from afar (about an ocean away) and thought to himself "If I led a guild we wouldn't stoop down to that shitty level," in fact I believe his name was Karsten. It seems you're having just a bit of trouble understanding the argument and we keep walking ourselves in circles, and i fucking hate ballroom dancing. So in true RnF spirit, I will interpret this magnificent threadzor in a fashion that can be seen as an analogy to the current arguments and the counterarguments -- but with an RnF spin. Perhaps a dramatic play?

This shit's for real!

Scene II

Carebear noobie 1: Karsten, maybe you guys shouldn't be raping chickens... it just seems wrong.

Karsten: Nothing in the town's laws states that raping chickens is wrong. Why the hate bro?

Carebear noobie 2: Dude... you're fucking chickens? When has that shit ever been right?

Karsten: Listen, back where I'm from you could rape all the poultry you wanted and nobody said a word.

Carebear noobie 1: But that's where you're from... I mean, we never thought anyone in their right mind would come down here and start fucking chickens so we never thought any laws outlawing the raping of winged-table meat was necessary.

Mayor of Dandy Ol' Town (Nilbl0rg): Raping chickens is pretty douchie, dude. You might catch the avian flu.

Karsten: Listen, just because you think something is wrong doesn't mean everybody does. I think the chickens might enjoy it, actually. I mean, morality is such a touchy subject that's so...

Carebear noobies and the Mayor in unison: Will you just quit fucking chickens already!?!?

Karsten: I know that you guys don't like it, and I get that, but I only listen to my fellow chickenfuckers.

AND SCENE!

it seems like act III may be soon to follow. stay tuned

THIS SHOULD BE STICKIED YOU ARE THE SHIT! LMAO

[Aadill]

Skope did you recently watch the South Park 15 "Back to School" Episode Pack on Hulu, specifically the Chickenlover episode? I cannot fathom why else chicken fuc... chicken loving should have ever popped into your head.

[Skope]

actually no, i didn't. it just kinda popped into my head randomly and then i thought of the episode after the fact.

[Aadill]

Wow. A timely coincidence.

[Guybrush]

I just wanted to suggest that if you're mad at Shaere for saying mean things about your guild, you punish Shaere alone instead of his entire guild - many of whom had nothing bad at all to say about you (though this number is quickly dwindling after the way you guys have been acting)
It's like if there was a criminal hiding out in an office building and to catch him, you decided to blow up the entire place and all the people inside. It's senseless.

[Skope]

Wow. A timely coincidence.

well, it kinda makes sense. the guy was raping chickens (pretty silly, no?) in order to teach barbrady to read, and here i'm leaving the chickenraping to karsten in hopes he can see just how silly some of what is going on really sounds.But honestly, i have no idea just how that got into my head. first thing i thought of after the chickenfucking thing was that episode though. figure it works quite well

[Cyrano]

This was not the original EQ experience on Prexus while I was there.

Asher

On MT it was a shit storm of guilds trying to pull from one another and race to get targets. By the time we got to Velious though there was enough mobs to spread it out better so you saw less head to head competition as multiples mobs would often be up.

I do agree this server is more hardcore than anything I experienced on live, but it's a two way street. One guild doesn't set the tone, multiple guilds over the past two years have continually pushed one another further to more extreme tactics and measures. I get that from the outside looking in you only see the end result and not all the discussion and arguing that goes into how we've gotten to where we are as a server, but I assure you it's not solely based on the actions of TR.

What has really changed is the merging of guilds and notorious players over the past year. At the end of the day though I don't think any guild is singularly "the bad guy" or "the good guy" in this scenario. Everyone has taken turns playing those parts whether it's via exasperation or simply being dicks. The latter tend to get filtered out fairly quickly but not always and it's a shame. I've personally never trained people, you never see me stealing camps or starting shit. The one person I've gotten into it with in game was Sernity but to be fair he was stupid enough to talk shit in tells to people who I was in TS with at the time. All in all I'm sure he's a decent guy but I'm sure he had issues with grouping with another rogue from a competing guild w/o ever having talked to me once. I get that a lot of the RnF shit is simply people venting or trying to anger others, I understand it's one big pissing contest to see who can get under whose skin, but most people aren't the same in game as they are on the forums. Ultimately we're mostly in guilds with similar minded people who we enjoy spending time with, regardless of what the tag says above our heads.

In the case of TR we are probably the most competitive group of players on the server. We take shit personally when we lose a mob and adjustments are made to make sure it's not a recurring issue. The same can be said for TMO and while not everyone wants to be as competitive as our two guilds are it is the raid climate that has been created by this server. There will be people who leave guilds to join the top two, there will be people who quit for other games, and there will be people who enjoy the game for what it is to them. Clearly this isn't ruining the server as it continues to thrive with 800+ at peak hours and you have 200+ people showing up at GM events. But at this point I don't think you guys bitching about TR in this thread care about any of that, you simply want something to bitch about for whatever reason and that's your prerogative. Tiggles will continue to be a forum troll, Abacab will continue to train, TR and whatever form of Fish Bait we're up against will continue to fight at the top relentlessly, and people will continue to bitch in RnF. It's nothing new, it's been this way since the server's inception.

The last thing I'll say, which I doubt any of you care, is that if you want things changed go make them change yourselves. There is a finite amount of loot and a finite amount of loot to go around. The top guilds have a never ending rotation of new members coming and going since content is slowly released on this server which causes burnout. Thus, we're going to continue to killing everything we can get our hands on. The only way I think you could conceivably see TR stop going for the 52 dragons is if they remove their haste drops because we always have people who can use those items.

I'm sorry you guys feel we're assholes who ruined this server or whatever but if I was you I'd do something to make yourselves more competitive. Merge with other guilds, join top guilds, get better organized, create an SMS or twitter system.

[Skope]

wall of text

bingo. get rid of the 4 day variance please. It kept away poopsocking for maybe a month or two and has done more harm than good since last summer. Want more competition? go classic. Fuck quitting my job to track, you can suck my left nut (don't you dare touch my right one).

[karsten]

folks, you've degenerated

[Skope]

folks, you've degenerated

and you've just loke'd your way outta my heart. goodbye friend. I thought you and i could, you know, have coherent conversations without backtracking and delusional thoughts and ideas but it seems they've got you as well. I can, and quite comfortably at that, say that all officers in TR are officially dickheads.

In fact, i think i may go an extra mile here... just answer these little questions for me:

How many naggies have you known that he doesn't banish like he's supposed to?

Also, has xzerion attended any of them?

Because when there's not a bug report about a super easy mob that's at the back of your list but the assumption is that he's a bitch to kill (that's assuming it's 52 on hatelist or gtfo) then that's quite an advantage, no? in fact, could you even say that supremely dickish behavior?

Am i accusing xzerion, even though he's a dev, of joining in on your dickish behavior? Maybe. does he put in a lot for the server? sure. does it make him immune for throwing him in the same bag as the rest of you? no.

Can you answer the questions, though?

[Cyrano]

Since when has Naggy's banish not worked? Because I've been showing up on a 44 cleric for that fight.

[Skope]

Since when has Naggy's banish not worked? Because I've been showing up on a 44 cleric for that fight.

apparently a couple of your 60s were at the one where you leapfrogged taken, granted, apparently they had 60s as well but considering the fact that they filed the bug report I'm gonna go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt. cyrano, it's not the first time either bro... i mean how many islands in posky were broken without a single word in the petition threads? you guys knew it, and sure, the GMs did, but when everyone else doesn't then don't you think that's a bit...you know... douchie?

[Muleworth]

the sperglords

lol

[Cyrano]

Any what do you mean by go classic? Because if we knew the exact spawn time of mobs down to the second do you think anyone besides TR or TMO would ever get any mob? Here's the real issue, content doesn't come out enough to appease the top guilds. We should have had VP months ago, we shouldn't have had tons of people in PoS gear prior to the release of Kunark. Because of that you see more players with far stronger stats than we were ever intended to have at this point in Kunark as opposed to a small group. And because of variance you see larger guilds so that we can compete 24/7.

Not sure what happened to you personally Skope but I know other guilds have gotten Nagafen since Kunark and even in the past month so whatever you're trying to insinuate strikes me as a petty scheme to paint us as cheaters. It's the same game many people have played when they lose mobs but since I don't know of any head to head occurrences with Divinity recently I really have no idea what your agenda is. Did you see level 60 TR members killing Nagafen? I don't think so and I bet that if you pm'd Rogean or Nilbog they'd confirm that he's working as intended. But like I said earlier in that wall of text, I don't think you care about any of that you just want something to bitch about and this happens to be it.

[Cyrano]

apparently a couple of your 60s were at the one where you leapfrogged taken, granted, apparently they had 60s as well but considering the fact that they filed the bug report I'm gonna go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt. cyrano, it's not the first time either bro... i mean how many islands in posky were broken without a single word in the petition threads? you guys knew it, and sure, the GMs did, but when everyone else doesn't then don't you think that's a bit...you know... douchie?

Is it at all possible those 60's were there to buff and not engage because the banish is working as intended?

[azeth]

petty scheme to paint us as cheaters.

Is this not the same forum tactic used by IB, DA, Trans, TR, Fusion, TMO in regard to any given situation where a definitive winner/loser is determined?

At some point, we're posting only for the sake of it. Cyrano, you've done just that - you've illustrated a nonsensical rambling then indeed took the time to type not one, but two entire paragraphs in regards to it.

[Skope]

Any what do you mean by go classic? Because if we knew the exact spawn time of mobs down to the second do you think anyone besides TR or TMO would ever get any mob? Here's the real issue, content doesn't come out enough to appease the top guilds. We should have had VP months ago, we shouldn't have had tons of people in PoS gear prior to the release of Kunark. Because of that you see more players with far stronger stats than we were ever intended to have at this point in Kunark as opposed to a small group. And because of variance you see larger guilds so that we can compete 24/7.

Not sure what happened to you personally Skope but I know other guilds have gotten Nagafen since Kunark and even in the past month so whatever you're trying to insinuate strikes me as a petty scheme to paint us as cheaters. It's the same game many people have played when they lose mobs but since I don't know of any head to head occurrences with Divinity recently I really have no idea what your agenda is. Did you see level 60 TR members killing Nagafen? I don't think so and I bet that if you pm'd Rogean or Nilbog they'd confirm that he's working as intended. But like I said earlier in that wall of text, I don't think you care about any of that you just want something to bitch about and this happens to be it.

actually the screenshots they have (and the logs will as well) show both of your guilds with 60s. can you answer my question, though? sure would be nice.

As far as my agenda, i call people on bullshit and there's a LOT of TR bullshit floating around. i call uthgaard on his bullshit and tough talk and the fact that he doesn't back it up when it comes to raid rulings. What the hell makes you think xzerion is immune? if there's dickish behavior i don't care what tag you're wearing, you're being a dick.

as far as the server's direction, it was always classic and classic timeline. the timeline gets pushed back because they don't have the help and/or bad shit happens (fuck tornadoes), but the current variance is completely worthless. it was put in place to prevent poopsock and it has actually never ever done that. I know you guys, or some of you, were pushing a 7-day variance as well... should we all just hotlink SEQ on our guild's resources page? cause that's gonna happen.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Cyrano, Karsten... no one is proposing TR hand out "their mobs" to the undeserving masses. Not a single person here is advocating that, as far as I can tell.

Personally, I'm calling Xzerion and Karsten out for claiming TR "takes the high road" when in fact there are countless examples of them not taking the high road, and then the icing on the cake is Karsten pretty much saying that (paraphrased) "well, you can't clearly define this high road you speak of, so... sorry if we don't take it." So, now we can be certain this is simply a matter of "TR is expected to take the high road if it allows us to leapfrog over the guild taking the low road full of trash mobs."

You and the members of TR essentially have two choices:

Be competitive and get the raid targets, but respect other guilds when they have legitimately beaten you to the punch, thus taking the high road. This won't kill you... you get 90-95% of the raid mobs as it is due to your intense competitive nature.

Be competitive and get the raid targets, and disrespect other guilds when they have legitimately beaten you to the punch by:

a) fucking with their pull
b) rushing in to be FTE right before they engage
c) rules-lawyering some technicality so the GMs give you the loot after they killed the mob
d) sniping a mob out from under them by leapfrogging or other "dick moves"
e) generally doing whatever underhanded shit it takes to deny them

To this date, you have consistently chosen the latter route and have hidden behind the pretense of "competition".

But this isn't competition.

Competition was the first of the two choices above that you consciously make about the type of guild you want to be. The latter of the two choices is more about making the entire competition so goddamn fucking miserable for the rest of the players, including ones caught in the crossfire between the two main competitors, that no one else wants to play, and you win by default.

Winning by default by making everyone else sick of the game because of the underhanded shit that you do... is that truly the kind of competition you seek? Because if it is, then that's some sorry-ass spirit of competition you've got going there.

And the worst is yet to come when epics get released. You think TMO monopolizing Droga was bad? Because the name of your game is "deny everyone else anything that they could possibly use to come close to competing against you", we all know you're going to perma-camp Ragefire for your clerics, your cleric alts, and cleric alts of your cleric alts. You know it and I know it. Just like you're going to monopolize ST keys when Velious comes out, equip all your melees and their alts with primals and then put down all 4 warders. Hell, the plans are probably already drawn out on your forums, with who needs to be where, and what 8-hour shift you're responsible for.

THAT is what the rest of us have to look forward to unless TMO, Divinity, Taken, BDA, and VD all combine to do what we need to do to make it not fun for TR anymore and make you call it quits before any of that ever happens. But even that won't happen because the rest of us aren't arrogant or douchey enough to do the underhanded things necessary to stoop down to their level to cockblock a guild until they get fed up and stop logging in. Most of the rest of us understand that respect begets respect.

At the end of the day, when this server has come and went, no one is going to give a shit about what armor or weapons anyone in TR or any other guild had, or what mobs they killed, or how many times they killed Trak... all they are going to remember is the interactions they had with you. If you want your legacy to be "Wow, TR was a bunch of douchebags who ruined the server." then so be it. I can't change that. Shaere can't change that. Skope can't change that.

And I guess it doesn't matter because of the anonymity of the Internet, so go on and do whatever your conscience allows you to do, I guess.

[karsten]

ahh, well how fabulously magnanimous of you

[karsten]

^ directed at skope, not yendor

[YendorLootmonkey]

^ directed at skope, not yendor

LOL no sweat, I know no one reads my walls of text anyway :)

[Skope]

ahh, well how fabulously magnanimous of you

have you grown the testicular fortitude to at least answer my question? honestly, i'm really really curious.

[Bruman]

LOL no sweat, I know no one reads my walls of text anyway :)

I can shamefully admit to reading everyone's walls of text (not just yours), and creating some of my own!

Hooray for hating my job (start a new one next week though)!

[karsten]

skope I tend to respond to you despite the fact that most people have long since stopped taking you seriously, but posts like your last one clearly don't lend to your credibility.

[Tiggles]

Hi Karsten

[JenJen]

i always read yendor's posts cos he's my hero

[Tewaz]

The server population is high at the moment, but this type of asshattery will not be good in the long term for the server. My main just got to raiding level and I just don't really see the value in raiding on here. I do not have the time to log in every night for 4+ hours let alone the insane amount of time poopsocking takes. I am married and a professional, you know like 40-60 hours a week, pay taxes, dress nice, no government assistance, ringing any bells? Probably not. I would guess to say that I am a good sample of atleast 1/3rd of the population that has played P99 since its inception. Are we a good sample at the current time? I doubt it, because I doubt a lot of people like me have stuck around.
In 2000 I picked up this game for the first time during Velious. I thought it was kind of fun, but one day I saw a Paladin run by, flaming sword in hand. That day changed the way I played this game. I saw the driving force for all people that play this game. Sweet loot. As I leveled, I learned about raiding and how that would get me more sweet loot, so I got into raiding and thoroughly enjoyed taking down Naggy and Vox and some of the other easier bosses.
The reason I logged into P99 the first time was pure nostalgia. The reason I kept logging in was enjoyment of leveling. Now, I am burned on leveling and I want to raid, but seeing the level of commitment and time it will take is a big let down. On Drinal we had Cats in Hats, and all the 12 year olds peed their pants when Ubar ran by. From what I saw, everyone looked up to that guild and their leader as great individuals. They were the ones that made me want to play and get gear and get an epic, because I looked up to them.
Your guilds "moral high ground" is a pit. You are so far down that no light is reaching you so you can realize how far you have sunk. No one looks up to you, and people like me just don't have time for the bull you guys love to pull. If I am on a raid and you guys leapfrog my guild in the 3 hours I get a week for raiding, I am going to get angry.
I am not going to use that anger to ignore my family to play more. I am not going to quit my job. I am not going to give my guild leader my phone number so he can bat phone me. I am just going to go do something else, because my time is the most valuable thing I have, and you are basically stealing it from me.
Yes, competition does exist and it is healthy, but you guys are competing against individuals that do not have the plethora of time that your whole raiding guild seems to somehow possess, and so, a lot of us, won't compete with you. Yay, you won! Congratulations! Just know that one day you will run into EC and there will be no one there to check your awesome gear, chat with you, or buy the 50th CoF you just farmed.
One of the tags says TR's private server, and the way you are behaving will make it a public server that only you play on. I doubt the dev team would want to continue developing for people like you though.

TL;DR
TR drives away casual players and will lead to population decline as people level and find no desire to raid.

[Tiggles]

The server population is high at the moment, but this type of asshattery will not be good in the long term for the server. My main just got to raiding level and I just don't really see the value in raiding on here. I do not have the time to log in every night for 4+ hours let alone the insane amount of time poopsocking takes. I am married and a professional, you know like 40-60 hours a week, pay taxes, dress nice, no government assistance, ringing any bells? Probably not. I would guess to say that I am a good sample of atleast 1/3rd of the population that has played P99 since its inception. Are we a good sample at the current time? I doubt it, because I doubt a lot of people like me have stuck around.
In 2000 I picked up this game for the first time during Velious. I thought it was kind of fun, but one day I saw a Paladin run by, flaming sword in hand. That day changed the way I played this game. I saw the driving force for all people that play this game. Sweet loot. As I leveled, I learned about raiding and how that would get me more sweet loot, so I got into raiding and thoroughly enjoyed taking down Naggy and Vox and some of the other easier bosses.
The reason I logged into P99 the first time was pure nostalgia. The reason I kept logging in was enjoyment of leveling. Now, I am burned on leveling and I want to raid, but seeing the level of commitment and time it will take is a big let down. On Drinal we had Cats in Hats, and all the 12 year olds peed their pants when Ubar ran by. From what I saw, everyone looked up to that guild and their leader as great individuals. They were the ones that made me want to play and get gear and get an epic, because I looked up to them.
Your guilds "moral high ground" is a pit. You are so far down that no light is reaching you so you can realize how far you have sunk. No one looks up to you, and people like me just don't have time for the bull you guys love to pull. If I am on a raid and you guys leapfrog my guild in the 3 hours I get a week for raiding, I am going to get angry.
I am not going to use that anger to ignore my family to play more. I am not going to quit my job. I am not going to give my guild leader my phone number so he can bat phone me. I am just going to go do something else, because my time is the most valuable thing I have, and you are basically stealing it from me.
Yes, competition does exist and it is healthy, but you guys are competing against individuals that do not have the plethora of time that your whole raiding guild seems to somehow possess, and so, a lot of us, won't compete with you. Yay, you won! Congratulations! Just know that one day you will run into EC and there will be no one there to check your awesome gear, chat with you, or buy the 50th CoF you just farmed.
One of the tags says TR's private server, and the way you are behaving will make it a public server that only you play on. I doubt the dev team would want to continue developing for people like you though.

TL;DR
TR drives away casual players and will lead to population decline as people level and find no desire to raid.

I only read the first part of your block of text

I have a live in girlfriend a 50 hour a week job working as a government contractor, own a house and 2 cars.

I also have 50% raid attences with my guild and 90% attendence on trak kills.

Stop pretending that in order to raid you need to be a neckbeard, you just suck.

[Littlegyno]

need pvp to resolve these problems imho.

[Barkingturtle]

I only read the first part of your block of text

I have a live in girlfriend a 50 hour a week job working as a government contractor, own a house and 2 cars.

I also have 50% raid attences with my guild and 90% attendence on trak kills.

Stop pretending that in order to raid you need to be a neckbeard, you just suck.

Does your guild leader have your phone number?

[Seaweedpimp]

I have tiggle's phone number.

[Cyrano]

I only read the first part of your block of text

I have a live in girlfriend a 50 hour a week job working as a government contractor, own a house and 2 cars.

I also have 50% raid attences with my guild and 90% attendence on trak kills.

Stop pretending that in order to raid you need to be a neckbeard, you just suck.

I'm with Tiggle on that. You guys saying this attitude is going to be the downfall of this server have been singing the same song for years now.

Yendor for you to say that everyone has to team up against us is foolish, like I said this isn't a one horse race. TMO uses the exact same tactics we do, there is a video in another thread of Winterfresh, aka Durison their guild leader, attempting to pull juggs into the middle of a Trak that our guild has already engaged. There are countless threads from both TR and TMO pointing fingers because one guild was rushing in while the other had one person get FTE, this type of stuff has been going on forever. I can recall being on a CT raid prior to Kunark where we had 15 in zone and two golems down first, a rule that SKOPE'S guild spearheaded to implement, when an officer from DA pulled every mob he could into our camp and DA rushed CT for the win. Did he get a suspension? Yes. But this type of stuff is recurrent.

I'm sorry you guys lost Nagafen, but again get more competitive. Learn the tricks of that raid encounter and don't act like attacking the giants prior to bridge gives you some claim on the end mob. This isn't WoW, it's not a dungeon crawl to a boss in an instance. FTE is the rule and there are many, many, creative ways this gets done at the top.

Does it suck that the more casual guilds have to get in the middle of this? Yes unfortunately it does, but this is what classic EQ was like during Kunark. There simply isn't enough mobs to go around. We have basically 5 new raid mobs, that's not enough to appease a server that is so saturated with level 60's due to lagged development.

Skope, I have no idea what the question you keep ranting about is. Post the screenshots of level 60's attacking Nagafen imo, people can be in the general vicinity (i.e. just outside his room) and so long as they aren't casting on people who are on Naggy's aggro list they won't get banished. I'm guessing that is what actually happened.

[Cyrano]

The server population is high at the moment, but this type of asshattery will not be good in the long term for the server. My main just got to raiding level and I just don't really see the value in raiding on here. I do not have the time to log in every night for 4+ hours let alone the insane amount of time poopsocking takes. I am married and a professional, you know like 40-60 hours a week, pay taxes, dress nice, no government assistance, ringing any bells? Probably not. I would guess to say that I am a good sample of atleast 1/3rd of the population that has played P99 since its inception. Are we a good sample at the current time? I doubt it, because I doubt a lot of people like me have stuck around.
In 2000 I picked up this game for the first time during Velious. I thought it was kind of fun, but one day I saw a Paladin run by, flaming sword in hand. That day changed the way I played this game. I saw the driving force for all people that play this game. Sweet loot. As I leveled, I learned about raiding and how that would get me more sweet loot, so I got into raiding and thoroughly enjoyed taking down Naggy and Vox and some of the other easier bosses.
The reason I logged into P99 the first time was pure nostalgia. The reason I kept logging in was enjoyment of leveling. Now, I am burned on leveling and I want to raid, but seeing the level of commitment and time it will take is a big let down. On Drinal we had Cats in Hats, and all the 12 year olds peed their pants when Ubar ran by. From what I saw, everyone looked up to that guild and their leader as great individuals. They were the ones that made me want to play and get gear and get an epic, because I looked up to them.
Your guilds "moral high ground" is a pit. You are so far down that no light is reaching you so you can realize how far you have sunk. No one looks up to you, and people like me just don't have time for the bull you guys love to pull. If I am on a raid and you guys leapfrog my guild in the 3 hours I get a week for raiding, I am going to get angry.
I am not going to use that anger to ignore my family to play more. I am not going to quit my job. I am not going to give my guild leader my phone number so he can bat phone me. I am just going to go do something else, because my time is the most valuable thing I have, and you are basically stealing it from me.
Yes, competition does exist and it is healthy, but you guys are competing against individuals that do not have the plethora of time that your whole raiding guild seems to somehow possess, and so, a lot of us, won't compete with you. Yay, you won! Congratulations! Just know that one day you will run into EC and there will be no one there to check your awesome gear, chat with you, or buy the 50th CoF you just farmed.
One of the tags says TR's private server, and the way you are behaving will make it a public server that only you play on. I doubt the dev team would want to continue developing for people like you though.

TL;DR
TR drives away casual players and will lead to population decline as people level and find no desire to raid.

I have no idea who you are but I'm 100% certain I play this game less than you do. Get your nostalgia in, that's great I'm happy for you. If my guild's pursuit of boss kills ruins your fun I'm sorry but I honestly believe you're in the minority. Out of the 1500-2000 active players on this server only a handful are represented by TR and about an equal number are represented on the forums. Most of the shit up here is just people spewing venom to kill time at work.

There are so many other ways and reasons to enjoy EQ that if not getting easy or uncontested boss kills is what ruins this for you I'd move on to another game where your 3 raid hours per week is better spent on guaranteed fights.

[Barkingturtle]

There are so many other ways and reasons to enjoy EQ that if not getting easy or uncontested boss kills is what ruins this for you I'd move on to another game where your 3 raid hours per week is better spent on guaranteed fights.

I guess I sometimes wonder this in reverse: If you want to be a hardcore raiding guild doing bleeding edge content and gaining pride in your accomplishments, why not play another game? You know, one with actual bleeding edge content and stuff.

[Cyrano]

I guess I sometimes wonder this in reverse: If you want to be a hardcore raiding guild doing bleeding edge content and gaining pride in your accomplishments, why not play another game? You know, one with actual bleeding edge content and stuff.

Haha fair enough. I think what you'll find is that there isn't a game with the open competition like you find on P99 anymore. EVE was fun but seems like with the skill progression the big names have an insurmountable lead in that game.

The other factors; this server is free, I don't want to spend the time developing another character, I'm already in a top raid guild and don't want to jump through the hoops required to get here again in another game. Maybe in a few years I will, but the time commitment simply is not an option for me personally. It's much easier to log in when I get a text, kill something, then log back out.

[Tewaz]

It's much easier to log in when I get a text, kill something, then log back out.

Why don't you just go play on a private server that spawns a raid mob every three days on a variable? Sounds like you would enjoy it more.

[Cyrano]

Why don't you just go play on a private server that spawns a raid mob every three days on a variable? Sounds like you would enjoy it more.

Why don't you go play on a server where you have GM capabilities, can spawn anything whenever you want, kill it, loot it, then go back to your family?

[Barkingturtle]

Haha fair enough. I think what you'll find is that there isn't a game with the open competition like you find on P99 anymore. EVE was fun but seems like with the skill progression the big names have an insurmountable lead in that game.

The other factors; this server is free, I don't want to spend the time developing another character, I'm already in a top raid guild and don't want to jump through the hoops required to get here again in another game. Maybe in a few years I will, but the time commitment simply is not an option for me personally. It's much easier to log in when I get a text, kill something, then log back out.

While I appreciate your attempt at candor, I don't know how much of this is based in reality. I believe you when you say one reason you stay here is that it's free. I have long suspected the denizens of P99 are largely unemployed or underemployed. I also understand not wanting to go through the bizarre hurdles required by raid guilds to gain membership.

Other than that, it's all rather disingenuous. Saying you don't have the time to commit to raid in another game and then stating you get texts and then log in to raid is totally counter-intuitive. I mean, being available to raid at the drop of a tweet is a far greater time commitment than anything I can imagine in any other game. For that matter, other games do have open-world raid mobs to sate your competitive desires, and some even avoid instanced content, altogether. The only really unique thing about Classic EQ is the Tunnel and the naked corpse-running. You could level to cap and be a bleeding-edge content-devourer within two months in WoW, and then you could minimize the impact the game had on your life by setting two nights a week to raid.

See, I don't really believe your justifications. I believe you believe them, and you are no doubt really invested in them, but they just sound pretty fake. I think the joy taken in killing mobs on this server has more to do with depriving your perceived enemies of the kills than anyone would like to admit, because if you did admit it you'd feel pretty sad inside.

[Tewaz]

Wow, you sir are an ass hole. Now I understand the reputation. Thanks.

[Cyrano]

While I appreciate your attempt at candor, I don't know how much of this is based in reality. I believe you when you say one reason you stay here is that it's free. I have long suspected the denizens of P99 are largely unemployed or underemployed. I also understand not wanting to go through the bizarre hurdles required by raid guilds to gain membership.

Other than that, it's all rather disingenuous. Saying you don't have the time to commit to raid in another game and then stating you get texts and then log in to raid is totally counter-intuitive. I mean, being available to raid at the drop of a tweet is a far greater time commitment than anything I can imagine in any other game. For that matter, other games do have open-world raid mobs to sate your competitive desires, and some even avoid instanced content, altogether. The only really unique thing about Classic EQ is the Tunnel and the naked corpse-running. You could level to cap and be a bleeding-edge content-devourer within two months in WoW, and then you could minimize the impact the game had on your life by setting two nights a week to raid.

See, I don't really believe your justifications. I believe you believe them, and you are no doubt really invested in them, but they just sound pretty fake. I think the joy taken in killing mobs on this server has more to do with depriving your perceived enemies of the kills than anyone would like to admit, because if you did admit it you'd feel pretty sad inside.

You'd think differently if you saw my raid attendance. I'll also submit that I'm not even level 60 yet, my guild knows the reasons I have less time to play than I used to and that those commitments in real life will continue to only get worse over the next few years.

While you say it's more of a time commitment to log in for 15 minutes to kill a mob, I think you're wrong. If I'm home and available I will always log in, but if I'm not you won't find me rushing home - largely because the mob is most likely down by the time I get home - or scrambling to find a comp I can log in very quickly. For what you're suggesting I do in WoW would take months of regular play time, gearing, raiding, then getting lucky enough to get a shot at a truly high end guild all while treating the game like a second job. I don't want to play a game where I have to be logged in at a specific time multiple times per week, and if we're being honest about top raid guilds that typically 5+ nights, because my life doesn't afford that type of stable availability.

I'm also realistic about what this means for my progression on this server in the future and I'm fortunate enough to be a member of a guild that looks out for their own when real life requires more focus. You say we're unemployed and while I won't argue that we certainly have some people who fit that bill, I think you'll find a ton of people on this server who fall into that category. I'd wager the majority of TR is either students or small business owners who have the ability to play from work. If you actually did a poll you'd be surprised how many healthcare related students and professionals we have. We've also had a solid group of day traders and investment bankers who are typically tethered to computers for long hours with the ability to keep characters logged in. The same goes for our web developers and programmers. In fact, if you took the time to ask each member what they did or where they lived I think you'd be really surprised how many of us are located in major cities that require substantial incomes to live in.

[Cyrano]

Wow, you sir are an ass hole. Now I understand the reputation. Thanks.

How am I the asshole? You just told me to go play on another server and I simply suggested you do the same. Let me know what the kettle says when you meet him.

[Misto]

How am I the asshole? You just told me to go play on another server and I simply suggested you do the same. Let me know what the kettle says when you meet him.

WHY ARE YOU BEING AN ASSHOLE. OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG hurRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR *TIRE SCREECHES*

[Cyrano]

Are you pumping the breaks?

[Knuckle]

i definitely want to pump some brakes ehheheeh

[Barkingturtle]

I'd wager that in my interactions with members of this community, Cyrano is actually one of the smallest assholes. Tight and dewy, too, and probably pink as a stick of chewing gum.

Thanks for the earnest reply. Makes sense, or at least better sense. And really, the unemployment thing was just a cheap shot. I realize most characters above fifty are played by investment bankers and home daycare providers.

[Misto]

I'd wager that in my interactions with members of this community, Cyrano is actually one of the smallest assholes. Tight and dewy, too, and probably pink as a stick of chewing gum.

Thanks for the earnest reply. Makes sense, or at least better sense. And really, the unemployment thing was just a cheap shot. I realize most characters above fifty are played by investment bankers and home daycare providers.

Actually I've never seen Cyrano being an asshole to anyone lol

[Littlegyno]

whats protector of sunder ??????

[EvilMallet]

whats protector of sunder ??????

ravaged feachies mangina

[Cyrano]

ravaged feachies mangina

I don't do dudes.

[Asher]

I'm sorry you guys lost Nagafen, but again get more competitive. Learn the tricks of that raid encounter and don't act like attacking the giants prior to bridge gives you some claim on the end mob. This isn't WoW, it's not a dungeon crawl to a boss in an instance. FTE is the rule and there are many, many, creative ways this gets done at the top.


We didn't lose Nagafen and we didn't just kill giants prior to bridge. We killed up to Rokyl and then you guys decided you were gonna make a run for it forcing us to go a little earlier then we had wanted. You guys saw us there and obviously knew what we were doing and you guys chose the dickmove. You didn't give us even one attempt before trying to leapfrog. I guess we should learn your zerg strat of killing Rokyl and Naggy at the same time in case TR decides they want to jump Naggy on us while as soon as we down Rokyl.

I am also curious why you had never reported Naggy's failing to banish people post 53. That was our first attempt and we were prepared to be banished and then run/gate back, while most of our force was 52 or lower. For the guild that gets Naggy most of the time you should have known this long ago. Why didn't you report it?

Asher

[Motec]

Killing magus, with a tank, healer and dps, whilst tanking naggy with a tank and healer, is a zerg?

[Cyrano]

To this day I've yet to see Naggy's banish not work properly. If it's not, that's because we haven't put 60's on his aggro list but I promise the last time I was at a raid there our 60's sat the fight out. So post screens of our 60's or your 60's doing damage and not being banished.

So far as the fight went, I'm confused and will be honest that I'm out of town right now, but you seem to say that we leapfrogged you just after saying that we pressured you into going earlier than you were prepared to do which implies you wiped. Which is it?

[Eccezan]

Cyrano, Karsten... no one is proposing TR hand out "their mobs" to the undeserving masses. Not a single person here is advocating that, as far as I can tell.

Personally, I'm calling Xzerion and Karsten out for claiming TR "takes the high road" when in fact there are countless examples of them not taking the high road, and then the icing on the cake is Karsten pretty much saying that (paraphrased) "well, you can't clearly define this high road you speak of, so... sorry if we don't take it." So, now we can be certain this is simply a matter of "TR is expected to take the high road if it allows us to leapfrog over the guild taking the low road full of trash mobs."

You and the members of TR essentially have two choices:

Be competitive and get the raid targets, but respect other guilds when they have legitimately beaten you to the punch, thus taking the high road. This won't kill you... you get 90-95% of the raid mobs as it is due to your intense competitive nature.

Be competitive and get the raid targets, and disrespect other guilds when they have legitimately beaten you to the punch by:

a) fucking with their pull
b) rushing in to be FTE right before they engage
c) rules-lawyering some technicality so the GMs give you the loot after they killed the mob
d) sniping a mob out from under them by leapfrogging or other "dick moves"
e) generally doing whatever underhanded shit it takes to deny them

To this date, you have consistently chosen the latter route and have hidden behind the pretense of "competition".

But this isn't competition.

Competition was the first of the two choices above that you consciously make about the type of guild you want to be. The latter of the two choices is more about making the entire competition so goddamn fucking miserable for the rest of the players, including ones caught in the crossfire between the two main competitors, that no one else wants to play, and you win by default.

Winning by default by making everyone else sick of the game because of the underhanded shit that you do... is that truly the kind of competition you seek? Because if it is, then that's some sorry-ass spirit of competition you've got going there.

And the worst is yet to come when epics get released. You think TMO monopolizing Droga was bad? Because the name of your game is "deny everyone else anything that they could possibly use to come close to competing against you", we all know you're going to perma-camp Ragefire for your clerics, your cleric alts, and cleric alts of your cleric alts. You know it and I know it. Just like you're going to monopolize ST keys when Velious comes out, equip all your melees and their alts with primals and then put down all 4 warders. Hell, the plans are probably already drawn out on your forums, with who needs to be where, and what 8-hour shift you're responsible for.

THAT is what the rest of us have to look forward to unless TMO, Divinity, Taken, BDA, and VD all combine to do what we need to do to make it not fun for TR anymore and make you call it quits before any of that ever happens. But even that won't happen because the rest of us aren't arrogant or douchey enough to do the underhanded things necessary to stoop down to their level to cockblock a guild until they get fed up and stop logging in. Most of the rest of us understand that respect begets respect.

At the end of the day, when this server has come and went, no one is going to give a shit about what armor or weapons anyone in TR or any other guild had, or what mobs they killed, or how many times they killed Trak... all they are going to remember is the interactions they had with you. If you want your legacy to be "Wow, TR was a bunch of douchebags who ruined the server." then so be it. I can't change that. Shaere can't change that. Skope can't change that.

And I guess it doesn't matter because of the anonymity of the Internet, so go on and do whatever your conscience allows you to do, I guess.

this

[Grahm]

I would like to think we are all mature enough to determine the difference between right and wrong here if we stand back and look objectively at the situation and forget about the precious pixels for one damn second.

If you wouldn't want it done to you if you were in another guild's position, then you're not taking the moral high ground. If your first instinct is "well, how can we bend or lawyer the rules in order to still get what we want?" then you're not taking the moral high ground.

Do not sit here and tell me that Xzerion and now you earlier in this thread just held your guild to the expectation that they take the higher road, and then you just came here and backpedaled "welllll... about that.... what IS the higher road REALLY?" or "Well, despite the entire server telling us we're being dicks, that's totally subjective, so that's completely irrelevant and we don't give a shit what you think, we're getting the raid targets and you're not, hahaha!" when you realized that might mean you should stop leapfrogging if you were truly genuine about that statement.



You know precisely what you're doing when you go in to snipe a mob, so stop pretending like you need to have a set of parameters around it. I refuse to believe that you guys have been doing this "whatever it takes" thing for so long that you lack the moral compass to determine what's a dick move or not.



No one is saying you need to sit back and let other guilds kill raid mobs. You have completely demonstrated that you have the manpower and will to out-mobilize every other guild (in most cases) on this server to a raid target. Congrats, you win EQ. Well done. That's fine... shame on us for not having the same level of intense desire or commitment or whatever you want to call it.

But when another guild does get their chance to grab something because they were in the right place at the right time, or heaven forbid they manage to out-mobilize you, they shouldn't have to also worry about how TR is going to snipe it out from under them or rules-lawyer the loot away with GM intervention on some technicality because somehow out-mobilizing every other guild to a raid target 95% of the time isn't enough for you that you have to be douchey when someone actually has to gall to take a shot at "one of your mobs".

What the hell is wrong with "Grats guys, you got there first this time... we will beat you next time!" and hanging out to grab the mob in case they fail? Why is it such a slap in the face to the members of your guild that another guild actually formed up or started the pull or whatever the situation is?

Why does it have to be "Well, they have the mob incoming... go outaggro their puller" or "They just pulled the last few FGs, rush Naggy NOW!" or "Run up and be FTE so we can petition for the loot after they do all the work in killing the dragon!"?

Or was it "we expect our members to take the higher road, unless a raid target is involved, then in that case... fuck you all!" Because if it is, fine... but just call it like it is so we don't expect anything more out of you.

You proved you can get the raid mobs with "might makes right". Now my challenge to you (and every guild in the position to do so) is to get the raid mobs while remaining respected by the rest of the server. I know you can do it... I remember IB/DW sitting patiently on Isle 5 waiting for VD to take our first few attempts at the Spiroc Lord. You could have sniped it after we wiped the first time so you could start pulling Isle 6, but you didn't. You gave us our fair shot. Sure it probably wasn't a priority mob for you, but you made a decision to take the higher road there.

We all would just like to see that more often. From all the raid guilds. Respect for the raid force already there. Less trying to bend the rules on technicalities to claim "ownership" to mobs when a raid force was clearly there first. Missing a goddamn raid target is not going to kill you guys, and it would mean a lot more to the players who got to stop worrying about what dick was going to get pulled on them.

Am I telling you to give up raid targets? No. I'm telling you to break off pursuit after another raid force has clearly made their move for one and, next time, do that thing you all pride yourselves on doing and out-mobilize them to the next one. There will always be a next one!

I'll tell you one thing... it would make the server a lot more fun for everyone instead of bleak and miserable, and there will be far more people sticking around on this server longer if logging in and clearing most of Fear just to have TR rush in and gank CT right in front of them didn't continuously sap their will to log in.

Tell you one thing...Its sad you have to post this,

One more thing....It's even more sad it's true

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

We killed Rokyl. You see him dead, us looting and the arrows point to two TR members. Tixel, and Archaex(sp?). Chest appears to have just arrived on the right there fd up above the stairs but other then those 3 all are Taken. You know the rest of the story we move up and as we do so...

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4221/wekilledrokyla2.png

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

That just shows the situation shortly before we move up, we didn't cry leapfrog at the bridge Cyrano. We do not claim anyone 'pressured' us and we didn't 'wipe'. You will also note in this post I had Oblexsis and Spacy in the back watching for well, watching. I am not sure what Asher is speaking of but this Killing magus, with a tank, healer and dps, whilst tanking naggy with a tank and healer, is a zerg? is fantasy. We pulled the lair, we killed Rokyl to directly refute what Motec is implying.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I'm sorry you guys lost Nagafen, but again get more competitive. Learn the tricks of that raid encounter and don't act like attacking the giants prior to bridge gives you some claim on the end mob. This isn't WoW, it's not a dungeon crawl to a boss in an instance. FTE is the rule and there are many, many, creative ways this gets done at the top. was insulting to me because I wasn't claiming anything of the sort. And when was the last time this guild did this thing to TR to deserve the act? What we are saying is we aren't asking for you to surrender mobs. But in a position like this where we clearly got 'there' first, pulled all the giants to include Rokyl and you have 2 people there just let us have our shot. It isn't like we wiped, or sat there for 45 minutes bringing more people. We were there, you were not. Never have we leapfrogged or tried to gank another guilds' raid target yet apparently it is acceptable and defensible behavior to do this here? You want a race, a competition, you claim to be the best at mobilizing but when someone else actually gets the position first it means nothing because leapfrogging or attempting to leapfrog is a strategy? What I am saying is look, we got 'here' first wherever 'here' may be. If we were at the bridge, and TR ran by us that wouldn't be leapfrogging, the strategy would be how to engage and kill Naggy first and let the other guy pull certain fire giants. But there has to be a point where the other guild has position, otherwise it comes down to the same petty nonsense you wouldn't tolerate in your kids. Parents tell their kids to share or no one gets it, to take turns or wait their turn, adults wait in line or schedule appointments but here it is anarchy? How by any stretch of the imagination is leapfrogging in this case acceptable behavior? Because someone said 'it is ok to leapfrog?' It may make it not bannable behavior, but it doesn't make it ok. If fifty million people say a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing. And how do we determine socially acceptable behavior? Doesn't the society determine it? Well your society is speaking up, maybe you should listen. Forget the past and the nonsense that occurred, I am sure many of you thought it was bullshit but just accepted it because you had to. Here is the chance to not have to, and instead you refuse to help change things. Continuing to be part of the solution and not the problem.

[Raavak]

Takens mob? TR fte? This whole argument is stupid because TR even being near Naggy at this stage in the game is pathetic.

[Nedala]

And the worst is yet to come when epics get released. You think TMO monopolizing Droga was bad? Because the name of your game is "deny everyone else anything that they could possibly use to come close to competing against you", we all know you're going to perma-camp Ragefire for your clerics, your cleric alts, and cleric alts of your cleric alts. You know it and I know it. Just like you're going to monopolize ST keys when Velious comes out, equip all your melees and their alts with primals and then put down all 4 warders. Hell, the plans are probably already drawn out on your forums, with who needs to be where, and what 8-hour shift you're responsible for.



You seem to know a lot more than i do. Can you just stick with facts please and dont make things up?

[Lostprophets]

You seem to know a lot more than i do. Can you just stick with facts please and dont make things up?

IMHO, I don't see anything there "made up" cause it was truth;

- NoS was in fact perma-camped, denying pretty much everyone from them.

- All of the key camps were also perma-camped for months.

- As for the future, those events are predictions as he did state "probably" in regards to reoccurring events.

I agree with him 100%.

People really need to learn what the word "share" means, and let others enjoy things too (regardless of how well or poor their performance is).



Karma is a bitch and it'll bite you in the ass one day.
Do one wrong, your basically doing yourself wrong. Do multiple wrongs, well...you get the picture.

[Ring]

IMHO, I don't see anything there "made up" cause it was truth;

- NoS was in fact perma-camped, denying pretty much everyone from them.

- All of the key camps were also perma-camped for months.

- As for the future, those events are predictions as he did state "probably" in regards to reoccurring events.

I agree with him 100%.

People really need to learn what the word "share" means, and let others enjoy things too (regardless of how well or poor their performance is).



Karma is a bitch and it'll bite you in the ass one day.
Do one wrong, your basically doing yourself wrong. Do multiple wrongs, well...you get the picture.

Your guild not getting raid mobs must be karma for abusing MQ2 / SEQ.

[Lostprophets]

Your guild not getting raid mobs must be karma for abusing MQ2 / SEQ.

So says one (hiding his/her in-game name) from a Guild that knows what mob is dropping what milliseconds before it's even mentioned/linked in another guilds guild chat. (this naggy dispute is a prime suspect w/ the treasure hunters satchel)


If Taken is was using Mq2 / Seq (we aren't but do tell me), why AREN'T we getting EVERY mob (or there within 2 seconds in full force of the mob spawning)?


...yeah, ...that's what I thought, Hater.

[Leokaiser]

I have no stake in this matter, and barely know anyone involved, but it is interesting reading. I imagine it would be obvious to most people looking with an objective eye that if one disagrees with the sentiments expressed by Bauman, Yendor and Skope regarding the behaviour of the top raid guilds, then you probably are indeed a bit of a dick.

The 'moral highground' is no where near as subjective as some might wish to proclaim in order to excuse their own behaviour. Moral values are generally set by the majority, sometimes producing undesirable behavioural patterns, but most of the time people find it easy to tell what is right and what isn't. Here, it is glaringly clear that that the tactics the top guilds apply against each other (and the rest) are not fit to fill a shit sandwich.

This has nothing to do with winners and losers. If you think people only disagree with using 'low' tactics because they see winners using them and they jelly, guess again - your moral values aren't different because you are a winner, they are different because it suits you to be an asshat. There is a destinction.

Obligatory analogy time.

Most people lacking money will envy a rich man, but if that man became rich through talent or sheer hard work, most sensible people wouldn't grudge him his wealth and he would be respected for his success. However, if the same man wants to become richer through stealing, he wouldn't say to those who decry this theft "you wouldn't complain about stealing if you had all the money too", and any respect he had before would go out the window.

Now I'm not accusing any raid guilds of 'theft', per se, but to say that people only think dick move is dick because they ain't getting the lewtz, really? Really really?

I'm actually quite surprised that people have been trying to defend this sorry state of affairs, rather than just be brazen about it, as is usually the case here.

[PureLo]

Cyrano just close your lips kid/quit moving your fingers to type, you make yourself sound like an unintelligent scrub.

"Let's send some of our 60's to tail/potentially train a raid that is ahead of us, so that they can let us know when there is a clear shot at the raid mob... then we can switch toons/log in and all rush in and claim this fabled inconsistent FTE after they did all the work, ok guys? Sweet."

Friggin idiot

[JenJen]

remember : half, if not more, of europe has no sense of humour.

[Ring]

If Taken is was using Mq2 / Seq (we aren't but do tell me), why AREN'T we getting EVERY mob (or there within 2 seconds in full force of the mob spawning)?


...yeah, ...that's what I thought, Hater.

Because you're awful at EverQuest and even MQ2 / SEQ aren't enough to turn that tide. Seems pretty simple to me. You're still a collection of cheaters and I can't wait until your next guildleader gets banned for MQ2 so you can change your name again.

[Harrison]

lol pussies hiding in anonymity

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I guess we know who really wears the tin foil hats. Fool.

[Diggles]

I guess we know who really wears the tin foil hats. Fool.

Ahh. A shaere post. I miss those