Solo self found melee shaman race?

[renegadeofunk]

I was thinking of giving this challenge a try. You can still cast but must be face tanking the mob when doing damage.

Is Troll's regen and Initiate Symbol of Innoruuk valuable enough to overcome Ogre stun resist? Is Iksar's regen+AC worth their bad stats and faction? Are there questing benefits to the good faction of Barbarian?

Interested to know what you think!

[Jimjam]

Personally, as it is ssf, I’d put more consideration into which quests, zones and items I most want to get rather than which is the winningest race.

Barbarian is pretty fun in the fact that you can easily exceed 30 without ever leaving halas/everfrost/permafrost area. Permafrost is good money and a few ok items. If you’re willing to spread to wk/qeynos for shopping that also unlocks cultural armor and pet spells for you.

Iksar are pretty good in the quest department and have the Iksar Berserker Club on their porch.

All races can easily make banded, in my experience it only takes about 100pp to get your skill high enough to brute force a combine.

Perhaps the most import thing to consider is how to get a decent weapon early on?

[kjs86z2]

If the only goal is to hit 60, prob barb to avoid the xp penalties. I doubt Troll regen, Ogre FSI, or any other racial would make up for that.

[Crede]

I was thinking of giving this challenge a try. You can still cast but must be face tanking the mob when doing damage.

Is Troll's regen and Initiate Symbol of Innoruuk valuable enough to overcome Ogre stun resist? Is Iksar's regen+AC worth their bad stats and faction? Are there questing benefits to the good faction of Barbarian?

Interested to know what you think!

It doesn't matter, play the one you like staring at the most IMO. I've tried Ogre they are just so damn ugly so it's a hard no for me. FSI isn't what it used to be on here after they made changes to how often mobs stun. Regen is some nice QoL while leveling but as already mentioned a Barb will prob still level faster.

If you are going to be mostly face tanking then the biggest thing will be having Slam for interrupting casters, so Barb/Troll/Ogre are gonna be really nice for that.

TLDR fashion first otherwise go Barb for faction/faster xp or Troll for regen/snare.

[eqravenprince]

99.9% of your effectiveness at facetanking will be your spells, melee might do a little. Ogre will maybe get interrupted slightly less. However with all that being said, Barbarian will level 15-20% quicker than all the other shaman races. Regen is useful at level 1-4, then again when you get the canni line, it has a very minimal affect on facetanking, I'd value AC over Regen when picking between troll and iksar when it comes to facetanking.

[cd288]

Don't Iksar get the same regen?

Larger races have better HP pools though, which I would prioritize over Iksar.

[Ciderpress]

Troll regen, like all regen, can't outpace mob damage as you gain levels. You can put a fungi on a lvl 1 and steamroll stuff on basically any class for a while, but eventually it doesn't work as mob melee damage outpaces your regen rate. I guess it depends on the specifics of the challenge, are you just trying to hit 60 in the shortest time possible? If that's the case, definitely barb for the lower penalty alone.

Also as an aside, barbs are clearly the intended race for shamans, lore-wise. The pet is a wolf, not some goofy lizard! Do you see any wolves hanging out in innothule or oggok or cab? No!

[loramin]

The wiki answers your question in more detail, but the short version is Ogre, Troll, Barbarian, Iksar ... and the even shorter version is play what looks cool to you.

[Ciderpress]

A Barb shaman in a green totemic horn helmet is like the most iconic classic EQ image ever. When I see ogres and trolls in totemic or iksars in their weird iksar armor I always squint and think is that a sk or??

Seriously though it's hard to really give a substantial answer without knowing more specifics about op's intentions, but yeah ogres are always gonna win at facetanking. You can't cast torp or canni if you're stunned.

[renegadeofunk]

Sorry yeah my only real goal is hitting 60.

Thanks for the input so far, lots to think about.

[shovelquest]

Ogre offers nothing but end game rewards and being a solo self found I reckon that isn't any value. Sure if you're going to end game farm ogre is the way to go.

But for solo self found barbarian would likely be the easiest, then troll/iksar then ogre to level IMO.

Barbs just have access to qeynos and its uber leveling and quests, while troll gets the regen. Though does troll get an EXP penalty? Thats worth considering.

Perhaps the most import thing to consider is how to get a decent weapon early on?

I'm keen to debate whats the best weapon for a fresh brand new solo self found shaman, I'm going to offer this challenging to easy to camp at level 12-15 item.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Riptide_Spear

at 6/33 it's pretty shit. But hey you're like level 15.

https://i.imgur.com/LjlhKnA.png

[shovelquest]

https://wiki.project1999.com/Scepter_of_Rahotep

Scepter of Rahotep is also a good item to get.

9/38

https://i.imgur.com/fQGW5ct.png

[Ciderpress]

Yeah again it's all about what the intentions are. If the goal is get level 60 and then retire the day you ding 60, that seems like such a wasted effort because shamans don't even get torp until 60 and that single spell opens up the solo potential of the class immensely.

[shovelquest]

It would take like a year of playing solo self found shaman to get to the point that you were like, "alright the value of frontal stun immunity is starting to kick in!"

[Crede]

It would take like a year of playing solo self found shaman to get to the point that you were like, "alright the value of frontal stun immunity is starting to kick in!"

It’s to be determined what the actual “value” is of FSI besides avoiding the annoyance of being occasionally being stunned from the front. It’s like a bard who fizzles a song, you just recast it. I guess maybe jbb spam if you can actually loot one ssf?

I think it’s more prominent in sks if you’re gonna be an aggressive puller where if you can’t get a fd off you’re literally dead.

[cd288]

Troll regen, like all regen, can't outpace mob damage as you gain levels. You can put a fungi on a lvl 1 and steamroll stuff on basically any class for a while, but eventually it doesn't work as mob melee damage outpaces your regen rate. I guess it depends on the specifics of the challenge, are you just trying to hit 60 in the shortest time possible? If that's the case, definitely barb for the lower penalty alone.

Also as an aside, barbs are clearly the intended race for shamans, lore-wise. The pet is a wolf, not some goofy lizard! Do you see any wolves hanging out in innothule or oggok or cab? No!

This would take more hours than anyone is willing to put in, but I would be super interested to see a comparison of no XP penalty vs regen reducing downtime in terms of leveling speed.

[cd288]

It’s to be determined what the actual “value” is of FSI besides avoiding the annoyance of being occasionally being stunned from the front. It’s like a bard who fizzles a song, you just recast it. I guess maybe jbb spam if you can actually loot one ssf?

I think it’s more prominent in sks if you’re gonna be an aggressive puller where if you can’t get a fd off you’re literally dead.

FSI is super valuable if you are end game farming high end mobs where one stun basically means you're done (although I thought they'd made changes to channeling and stuff that makes it slightly less useful).

For leveling to 60 as OP is doing, it's not really important. If SSF is no longer the rule once 60 is hit then Ogre becomes more relevant (i.e., if you're gonna buy Torpor and your epic and start farming).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

FSI is super valuable if you are end game farming high end mobs where one stun basically means you're done (although I thought they'd made changes to channeling and stuff that makes it slightly less useful).

For leveling to 60 as OP is doing, it's not really important. If SSF is no longer the rule once 60 is hit then Ogre becomes more relevant (i.e., if you're gonna buy Torpor and your epic and start farming).

This is correct. FSI is better than Troll/Iksar Regen at level 60 with Torpor. While leveling (especially SSF), Troll/Iksar regen generally has more value. A successful bash will interrupt a spell, regardless of how channeling works.

If OP stays true to the SSF path, then Troll would be the best option. I don't think you can get Torpor as an SSF Shaman. As far as I can remember Cliff Golems are the easiest mob you can solo for a chance a Torpor. I don't think an untwinked level 60 Shaman without Torpor can kill a Cliff Golem. It's an interesting challenge. You basically need to have your pet tank the entire time (https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?si=4KvozOBID6lhOmG_) while you canni dance to get as much mana as possible. Without free damage clickies like JBB or Epic, I am not sure if you'll have enough mana.

For OP, feel free to read the Shaman Race Guide (https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwowi%27s_Shaman_Race_Guide) in my signature. It goes into depth about the pros/cons of each race.

[shovelquest]

By 60 I wonder if a shaman can even solo the JBB room, actually just that room, should be ok, but if that named dude breaks and resists a root you're f'd.

[Ciderpress]

This is correct. FSI is better than Troll/Iksar Regen at level 60 with Torpor. While leveling (especially SSF), Troll/Iksar regen generally has more value. A successful bash will interrupt a spell, regardless of how channeling works.

If OP stays true to the SSF path, then Troll would be the best option. I don't think you can get Torpor as an SSF Shaman. As far as I can remember Cliff Golems are the easiest mob you can solo for a chance a Torpor. I don't think an untwinked level 60 Shaman without Torpor can kill a Cliff Golem. It's an interesting challenge. You basically need to have your pet tank the entire time (https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?si=4KvozOBID6lhOmG_) while you canni dance to get as much mana as possible. Without free damage clickies like JBB or Epic, I am not sure if you'll have enough mana.

For OP, feel free to read the Shaman Race Guide (https://wiki.project1999.com/Shamwowi%27s_Shaman_Race_Guide) in my signature. It goes into depth about the pros/cons of each race.

Soloing cliff golems even with torp and epic is a pain in the ass that takes forever. They're so magic resistant even with malo\malosini applied. Drop rates are also just abysmally low. I was so giddy to kill them on my enc once I leveled up cause they die so much faster, and I probably killed 300 and never got a spell worth more than 100p. Maybe during bonus loot it's a little better, but I swore off them forever.

Does SSF mean you can't buy anything from other players? I thought it just meant you can't twink yourself or group or accept buffs\gifts from other players, but can still farm and sell\buy stuff no?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Soloing cliff golems even with torp and epic is a pain in the ass that takes forever. They're so magic resistant even with malo\malosini applied. Drop rates are also just abysmally low. I was so giddy to kill them on my enc once I leveled up cause they die so much faster, and I probably killed 300 and never got a spell worth more than 100p. Maybe during bonus loot it's a little better, but I swore off them forever.

I do agree that killing Cliff Golems for a chance at Torpor is a lottery ticket. But playing SSF is innately a very time consuming process, and getting Torpor on an SSF build would be insane. You could then farm more good items.

[kjs86z2]

You're not killing any mobs that drop torpor w/o torpor already learned.

[shovelquest]

Pretty sure you do SSF to solo bears in North Karana and enjoy the ambiance, not down raid targets by yourself :p

Maybe loot some bent spectacles for the first time in 25+ years.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You're not killing any mobs that drop torpor w/o torpor already learned.

Agreed. I can't really think of a mob you could solo without Torpor that can drop Torpor. Maybe I'll run some tests to see if you can actually down a cliff golem without Torpor at level 60, but I don't have high hopes for the test. As I said in the previous post you would need to have your pet tank for the entire fight (https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?si=4KvozOBID6lhOmG_)so you can canni dance as much mana as possible. You won't be able to face tank a cliff golem without Torpor. My current assumption is you will run out of mana while healing your pet before the Cliff Golem dies.

Funnily enough Shamans do get Charm Animal, which works on animals up to level 33. Perhaps charming a Sabertooth Tigress for a bit more DPS may yield interesting results.

[kjs86z2]

Agreed. I can't really think of a mob you could solo without Torpor that can drop Torpor. Maybe I'll run some tests to see if you can actually down a cliff golem without Torpor at level 60, but I don't have high hopes for the test. As I said in the previous post you would need to have your pet tank for the entire fight (https://youtu.be/umuVBewCNgY?si=4KvozOBID6lhOmG_)so you can canni dance as much mana as possible. You won't be able to face tank a cliff golem without Torpor. My current assumption is you will run out of mana while healing your pet before the Cliff Golem dies.

Funnily enough Shamans do get Charm Animal, which works on animals up to level 33. Perhaps charming a Sabertooth Tigress for a bit more DPS may yield interesting results.

love ya buddy but this aint even gonna be close

[shovelquest]

Are guardian wurms really that much harder than the cliff golem? Thats crazy. Those fuckers I thought would be farmed all day long by casual soloers after velious came ouot.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Are guardian wurms really that much harder than the cliff golem? Thats crazy. Those fuckers I thought would be farmed all day long by casual soloers after velious came ouot.

GWurms max hit for like 550 damage. So one good double attack is the equivalent of an unresistable ice comet lol.

Cliff Golems max hit for like 180 damage, and they are 2 levels lower, so you are at least higher level than a Cliff Golem at 60.

Cliff Golems are significantly easier compared to a Gwurm.

Did a quick test. The charmed pets prolly won't cut it for tanking. They are squishy. The level 49 pet with buffs can still tank the cliff golem quite well, but I am pretty sure you'll run out of mana without Torpor.

Blinding Luminance didn't seem to get resisted too much after applying Malosini. Perhaps with really good luck you could blind kite a cliff golem if you sat down every 5 sevonds while chasing it around. It would probably be too difficult/time consuming for how low the Torpor drop rate is, even if you managed to kill one.

[shovelquest]

I am just going to say this once, becuase I respect their culture imensly.

But barbarians run like they have a stick up their ass there i said it im sorry.

Anyway, just offering that little detail for OP to make their decision with.

[Jimjam]

eyo, Lady V ain't the only bad dragon up amongst them frigid barbies!

[branamil]

Last I checked it's a roleplaying game not an excel sheet simulator, so you should play whichever one brings you the most joy; well as much joy as you can have in your dark basement alone, while all of your peers are doing things outside with their families and friends.

[shovelquest]

Last I checked it's a roleplaying game not an excel sheet simulator, so you should play whichever one brings you the most joy; well as much joy as you can have in your dark basement alone, while all of your peers are doing things outside with their families and friends.

This is what i keep trying to tell my accountant but he wont listen! :cool: Including me being in the basement.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Shamans can make their own Wort Pots. So theoretically you could spend a ton of time farming plat, leveling up alchemy, and farming Wort Pot materials. Then you probably could do some harder camps to get upgrades without Torpor. But this would be a huge timesink.

[shovelquest]

So the solo self found solo artist challenge begins.

https://i.imgur.com/bEKcKCa.png

[renegadeofunk]

If I actually managed to get to 60 I would stay SSF and just see how much gear I could manage to acquire. I've always loved the leveling and early max level gameplay a lot more than weekly raiding so this seemed like a fun "forever challenge" (especially with me only playing maybe 4 to 8 hours a week).

Thanks again for the info, and I'll def check out the shaman guide that was linked!

[Crede]

If I actually managed to get to 60 I would stay SSF and just see how much gear I could manage to acquire. I've always loved the leveling and early max level gameplay a lot more than weekly raiding so this seemed like a fun "forever challenge" (especially with me only playing maybe 4 to 8 hours a week).

Thanks again for the info, and I'll def check out the shaman guide that was linked!

If you made the one exception being able to buy torpor I wouldn’t judge you because it’s like the only class that actually enters a whole new tier at 60 with that spell

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you made the one exception being able to buy torpor I wouldn’t judge you because it’s like the only class that actually enters a whole new tier at 60 with that spell

I agree. My thought was to make enough Wort Pots and kill a Cliff Golem once using said Wort Pots. This proves you can kill a mob that drops torpor. Then buy Torpor so you don't have to spend eternity recharging wort pots to kill cliff golems. Might even get lucky and have Torpor drop.