I don't remember monks being able to tank 20+ years ago.

[WokeCat]

I was one of the first high level monks on my server, and I remember having people message me shocked at how hard my monk would punch during Plane of Hate raids because no one really mained monks back then, and I was the first high level one they had seen and there was a lot of speculation for how much damage the class could do at higher levels.

But I never felt like my monk could tank in groups, and I don't think it's because my gear was bad or anything. This was the era of "AC is king" so I wore the Gator Scale leggings, Azure sleeves, Froglok crown etc. over planar gear and stuff. Like I for sure had an easier time solo'ing than my Rogue did, but when I was in a group, I was never able to effectively tank as my Monk.

I ultimately ended up quitting my Monk for my Rogue because it felt like in groups they were both relegated to just being melee DPS, and that my Rogue did better DPS, and that he could actually carry loot.

I also remember when they finally nerfed Monk tankiness, a lot of my Monk friends were happy because they simultaneously buffed their damage, which was essentially their main role anyways.

Because of all this, I really feel like Monks on P99 are tankier than they were 20+ years ago. When I first played on P99, I leveled an untwinked Gnome Cleric on Green, fairly early into the server's life, and there was a serious lack of tanks, so I ended up having a Monk named Bebquix who I met in Crushbone, almost exclusively tank for my groups all the way until level 50.

This monk was wearing cloth armor, and was not a twink, and yet I had no problem healing them all the way through Unrest, Mistmoore, Lower Guk, Sol B, Cazic Thule etc. and I don't think that would have gone similarly back in the day -- even if they were twinked, which they were not.

I'm not complaining, or asking for Monks to be nerfed. I look forward to twinking one in the near future and enjoying their uncanny ability to solo when equipped properly, but I don't think their tankiness is how Monks really were 20+ years ago and wonder if anyone else feels the same way?

Obviously I could be wrong about this. They nerfed Monks mitigation for a reason I'm sure, but I remember having to regularly feign death to stay alive in my groups because of how squishy I was.

[magnetaress]

monks didnt tank until very end game velious (not even thurg gear)

[magnetaress]

and yeah if u want classic go make ur own server lawl

[mycoolrausch]

Groups in classic typically camped even to yellow con mobs whereas modern optimal groups camp the absolutely lowest level mobs they can find that still con blue. This could skew tanking memories.

[Encroaching Death]

I'm not bashing OP, so don't take it the wrong way.

But why is it when people post on the 'Bugs' forum, it's always 'This [cool thing that everyone loves] shouldn't exist. I found evidence that this [really beloved thing] isn't classic.

It never goes the other way.

I swear it's like some people get off on shitting on other people's parades.

You know what I found out that's Classic? Uh, everyone is awesome and should get a free blowjob. Found it on an Allakazam post circa 1999.

[Frankenbeanz]

everyone is awesome and should get a free blowjob.

fixed, pending update ;)

[Encroaching Death]

https://media.tenor.com/zgXNGUP3OWwAAAAd/will-smith-excited.gif

[unsunghero]

Is this the first time someone has mentioned on these forums a class being too strong/OP from classic that actually isn’t enchanters?

Wow, historic moment, and I was here

[magnetaress]

rogues where a bit too strong too butt they where innappropriately nerfed in some ways and buffed in others idk what else to say

wizards are weaker than they should be

and necros feel pretty good a bit week in the lower lvls but it sorts itself out (mana is probably wrong on here too)

definately resists are still NOT right

[magnetaress]

peopel waz complaining about mage back when too like back when blue was just a hackbox and ppl swarmed raid bosses with 50 mages and back during kunark butt they eventually got around to being nerfed into the ground and broken completely in unclassic ways

I don't think anyone who cares reads these forums anywmore anyway its RnF

[magnetaress]

RREAALLY the project should be turned over to new hands IMO. let the OG devs retire and give it up to some young kids who really care about classic like it was supposed to be

Axzten at the top of thta list

Loramin up there too he can learn2code

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

peopel waz complaining about mage back when too like back when blue was just a hackbox and ppl swarmed raid bosses with 50 mages and back during kunark butt they eventually got around to being nerfed into the ground and broken completely in unclassic ways

I don't think anyone who cares reads these forums anywmore anyway its RnF


Join date of 2020 and already so jaded? Unpossible.

[magnetaress]

i have been banned2manytimes i dont know why i kept coming back i should have stayed gone

that said I don't bare anyone here any ill will and i think the project managers have done a fabulous job over the years

tis jus not classic

[magnetaress]

between all my bained accounts i have 5x as many posts as jibartik which makes me really think jibartik got me banned so my last account wouldn't exceed his posts cuz g-d can't lose #1 poster spot on the forums but w/e this post will probably get me banned

#amnesty for old elfs

[Encroaching Death]

I came back to the forums for Magnetress, Wonkie, and the other person who called me cute.

[magnetaress]

in an alternate universe i was never banned and i have like 70k posts since 2009

and 800 max level characters

[magnetaress]

also ilu ED keep strong stay healthy be kind 2 ur self <3

[WokeCat]

Groups in classic typically camped even to yellow con mobs whereas modern optimal groups camp the absolutely lowest level mobs they can find that still con blue. This could skew tanking memories.

I'll be honest, my monk was so squishy that I never really had a situation where I was asked to tank or expected to be able to, lol. I remember groups falling apart if our tank left.

[WokeCat]

I'm not bashing OP, so don't take it the wrong way.

But why is it when people post on the 'Bugs' forum, it's always 'This [cool thing that everyone loves] shouldn't exist. I found evidence that this [really beloved thing] isn't classic.

It never goes the other way.

I swear it's like some people get off on shitting on other people's parades.

You know what I found out that's Classic? Uh, everyone is awesome and should get a free blowjob. Found it on an Allakazam post circa 1999.

I'm not actually calling for any nerfs though. I just mained the class, and it's something I wondered if other people noticed. When I first played P99, I thought it was identical to original EverQuest, I had no idea that there were differences between it and the original until years after I had been playing it. And I remember thinking "dang, I didn't know Monks could tank this well" and wondered why I spent so much time searching for tanks for my groups instead of just doing it myself 20+ years ago.

But then as I become more familiar with the community, and read the forums and reddit more, and even talk to people on TLP, there's a lot of people pointing out that there are a lot of differences between the original version of the game and P99, it makes me wonder if Monks on P99 are just way tankier than they used to be?

I genuinely remember retiring my Monk for my Rogue because I felt like they were both just DPS classes and that he Rogue dealt better DPS, but on P99, it's very easy to see why someone would play a Monk over a Rogue. I didn't feel like the advantage Monks had over Rogues was that significant back in the day; it just felt like they were squishy DPS who had Mend and FD, which made them safer to play in most situations.

[WokeCat]

rogues where a bit too strong too butt they where innappropriately nerfed in some ways and buffed in others idk what else to say

wizards are weaker than they should be

and necros feel pretty good a bit week in the lower lvls but it sorts itself out (mana is probably wrong on here too)

definately resists are still NOT right

What are the differences you notice between Rogues? It's what I mained 20+ years ago, so I would be curious. I haven't actually played one on P99. I do feel like Monks out-damaging Rogues or dealing equal damage as Rogues is not accurate, lol.

I also remember Wizards being a big deal back in the day, but IDK how good they actually were? I just remember being a kid and reading about how much damage Ice Comet did and being shocked by it. I also think the first character on the news because it sold for big $$$ on ebay was a Wizard, if I recall? I could probably look up the old article, but I remember my parents just assuming that since I played the game that I could start making thousands of dollars and it's like dawg, it's not that easy. Especially when y'all make me go to bed at 9 o clock, and I gotta go to school and crap.

[Cecily]

I came back to the forums for Magnetress, Wonkie, and the other person who called me cute.
RIP. Taken before your time. Welcome back btw.

[Basanos]

RIP. Taken before your time. Welcome back btw.lol

[loramin]

But then as I become more familiar with the community, and read the forums and reddit more, and even talk to people on TLP, there's a lot of people pointing out that there are a lot of differences between the original version of the game and P99, it makes me wonder if Monks on P99 are just way tankier than they used to be?

I think a big part of it is that Monks did get "tankier" after Classic/Kunark. I didn't play a Monk, so I'm not sure how much was in Velious and how much was in Luclin, but I do know that by Luclin Monks were decent tanks, and that in the Shaman forums they were the recommended duo partner because they were tanky enough to heal with Torpor, but did more damage (and had more utility) than a normal tank class.

So, it's possible P99 still has some "Monks got improved in Luclin" stuff that doesn't belong (because this place got lots of data from the EQ Mac server, which was in PoP, and other post-Velious sources) ... and it's also possible that Monks were that tanky, and your memories are just from before.

But you know what I'm pretty damn certain didn't exist back in classic? Enchanters soloing the Plane of Hate (and really just being gods with charm in general).

[Chortles Snortles]

https://i.imgur.com/U4TFODQ.jpg

[Ooloo]

The reason p99 classic changes always seem to be negative is that it's an emu based on more modern iterations of everquest. EQ added more and more quality of life stuff as it went on, so almost any change aimed at making the game more in line with vanilla\kunark\velious on p99 will be in the direction of making the game harder to play in some regard.

Which is fine with me btw.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

between all my bained accounts i have 5x as many posts as jibartik which makes me really think jibartik got me banned so my last account wouldn't exceed his posts cuz g-d can't lose #1 poster spot on the forums but w/e this post will probably get me banned

#amnesty for old elfs


This is not right. This is not just.


I'm one of the worst posters to ever live. I was shitposting before it was called shitposting. I shitposted before the internet, somehow. I'm full of senseless gibberish and most international legal bodies agree, it's a human right to punch me in the nose.


But I never been banned. So something is amiss. Although yes, the Times Before Velious were pretty damn toxic, so maybe you just need to soft touch it a bit more?


Banning is so weak, imo. There is so much talent ready to monkey-bat any foe, and jokesters to make pretty much anything a joke. It's kind of self-defeating to the point of intrewebb network growth.



See, let's say you are an asshole. Over time, this gets built up both in game and here, into a kind of city-state. My point is: that represents capital. Content. Not to you! To the site. That's value. It's usually minor of course, but that is what makes a site as real as such things can get. Lots of minor investments. Content.



Sites that ban lots of people quickly end up like an empty room where the walls, furniture, and the carpeting are all the exact same color.


Pantone's 2023 color of the year, Klingon Blood. Fact.


But I don't know what you did. Maybe you bilked a 85-year-old widow/half elf named Mitsy out of her life savings and deserve to die in a fire. None of that is my concern. I believe in our brave men in blue to take care of crimes.


Yeah. This operation is old. Speaking of which, I was talking to my psychiatrist and he works on a contract basis with a few local nursing homes doing p-doc duties for the dementia and parkinson's crew. He told me, p99 sounds perfect for non-violent non-tremorous stabilized patients. You know, like people who actually do very well day after day in the puzzle room, not a peep.



So me and him are thinking about setting up some computers and getting a nursing home guild up and running. He thinks it can only be therapeutic. At this one place, he is good friends with the owner, and it has perfectly adequate wi-fi, which is barely used. There are a lot of HIIPA shit he has to think about, but that seems to be the only hurdle between p99 now, and p99 with a pro-led (me) and raid-medicated (the doc) army of the near-dead.



Gotta choose a motto...


Omnes enim odorum urinae

[Reiwa]

I think a big part of it is that Monks did get "tankier" after Classic/Kunark. I didn't play a Monk, so I'm not sure how much was in Velious and how much was in Luclin, but I do know that by Luclin Monks were decent tanks, and that in the Shaman forums they were the recommended duo partner because they were tanky enough to heal with Torpor, but did more damage (and had more utility) than a normal tank class.

So, it's possible P99 still has some "Monks got improved in Luclin" stuff that doesn't belong (because this place got lots of data from the EQ Mac server, which was in PoP, and other post-Velious sources) ... and it's also possible that Monks were that tanky, and your memories are just from before.

But you know what I'm pretty damn certain didn't exist back in classic? Enchanters soloing the Plane of Hate (and really just being gods with charm in general).

Monks are terrible on EQ Mac what are you talking about?

[Reiwa]

Gotta choose a motto...


Omnes enim odorum urinae

Yellow server launch when?

[mycoolrausch]

The reason p99 classic changes always seem to be negative is that it's an emu based on more modern iterations of everquest. EQ added more and more quality of life stuff as it went on, so almost any change aimed at making the game more in line with vanilla\kunark\velious on p99 will be in the direction of making the game harder to play in some regard.

Which is fine with me btw.

There's also the annoying thing of nerfing something because it happened to be nerfed 3 minutes before Luclin came out or w/e, so in the actual timeline it existed for 99% of velious and was always there in everyone's memories of velious, but here, on an infinite end of life luclin pre-patch timeline, it will be the opposite and not exist for 99% of velious.

[cd288]

I'm not actually calling for any nerfs though. I just mained the class, and it's something I wondered if other people noticed. When I first played P99, I thought it was identical to original EverQuest, I had no idea that there were differences between it and the original until years after I had been playing it. And I remember thinking "dang, I didn't know Monks could tank this well" and wondered why I spent so much time searching for tanks for my groups instead of just doing it myself 20+ years ago.

But then as I become more familiar with the community, and read the forums and reddit more, and even talk to people on TLP, there's a lot of people pointing out that there are a lot of differences between the original version of the game and P99, it makes me wonder if Monks on P99 are just way tankier than they used to be?

I genuinely remember retiring my Monk for my Rogue because I felt like they were both just DPS classes and that he Rogue dealt better DPS, but on P99, it's very easy to see why someone would play a Monk over a Rogue. I didn't feel like the advantage Monks had over Rogues was that significant back in the day; it just felt like they were squishy DPS who had Mend and FD, which made them safer to play in most situations.

Monks, especially Iksar, can tank basically all general group content until like level 40 if decently equipped. Maybe even past level 40 without being twinked but I am not sure. 50s they obviously get more squishy if not geared, but I’ve seen a geared level 60 monk tank basically every single level 50 dungeon out there. Not the most ideal tank but they were able to do it.

[magnetaress]

Basically

[Jimjam]

My monk was soloing upper guk and then Thurg critter caves in cloth equivalent AC (bristlesilk). It felt very wrong.

[cd288]

I think a big part of it is that Monks did get "tankier" after Classic/Kunark. I didn't play a Monk, so I'm not sure how much was in Velious and how much was in Luclin, but I do know that by Luclin Monks were decent tanks, and that in the Shaman forums they were the recommended duo partner because they were tanky enough to heal with Torpor, but did more damage (and had more utility) than a normal tank class.

So, it's possible P99 still has some "Monks got improved in Luclin" stuff that doesn't belong (because this place got lots of data from the EQ Mac server, which was in PoP, and other post-Velious sources) ... and it's also possible that Monks were that tanky, and your memories are just from before.

But you know what I'm pretty damn certain didn't exist back in classic? Enchanters soloing the Plane of Hate (and really just being gods with charm in general).

Please limit your whining about Enchanters to Enchanter related threads. This thread is about Monks

[Barik]

Enjoy your free Everquest.

[magnetaress]

iirc monks kinda where decent soloers into the mid 20s on live back in the day

iksars into the mid 30s

at 40 all tanky classes fell off drastically tho as the 'game got real' at that point and monks , rogues, and hybrids really fell behind, however one thing i do remember is:

rogues dodged and parry'd a lot more even vs redcons and did decent damage even tho they didn't have warrior ac butt they were not able to solo mobs as well as they do here other than using the instill doubt trick which got nerfed here

[loramin]

Monks are terrible on EQ Mac what are you talking about?

The two facts are not mutually exclusive. We can get calculations from EQ Mac data that make any class more powerful here, even if overall that class was less powerful on the server.

[Croco]

I think a big part of it is that Monks did get "tankier" after Classic/Kunark. I didn't play a Monk, so I'm not sure how much was in Velious and how much was in Luclin, but I do know that by Luclin Monks were decent tanks, and that in the Shaman forums they were the recommended duo partner because they were tanky enough to heal with Torpor, but did more damage (and had more utility) than a normal tank class.

So, it's possible P99 still has some "Monks got improved in Luclin" stuff that doesn't belong (because this place got lots of data from the EQ Mac server, which was in PoP, and other post-Velious sources) ... and it's also possible that Monks were that tanky, and your memories are just from before..

Monks got nerfed HARD in Luclin. Not really sure what you're talking about here. High end monks with raid gear didn't feel it as much as lesser geared lower level monks but all monks got hit.

[Olean]

Monks got nerfed HARD in Luclin. Not really sure what you're talking about here. High end monks with raid gear didn't feel it as much as lesser geared lower level monks but all monks got hit.

This nerf is why i rolled a rogue on live and never looked back. My live monk is still 60 with hot/ToV gear.

[Jimjam]

The two facts are not mutually exclusive. We can get calculations from EQ Mac data that make any class more powerful here, even if overall that class was less powerful on the server.

From my limited knowledge biggest improvement monks had in loose Lynne was extra time to farm high HP and AC Velious armours and improve their AC returns with AA.

Just before POP hit there was a massive revamp of the AC system designed to tone down overgeared monks and prevent item devs being hemmed in by the worn AC caps. P99 inherited this system from eqemu and I don’t think the revert has been fully reverse engineered - ie the claims of shaman outtanking rangers.

[magnetaress]

yeah we need original forumulas so bad

[Jimjam]

yeah we need original forumulas so bad

I feel you are being slightly sarcastic here? We have got on very nicely for a decade with a valiant but non classic server. That said, I fundamentally agree with your words -I definitely be filing it near the top of 'nice to haves' alongside night vision and midi immersion.