<ST> cucking out of Green99 due to Kingdom taking their merbz

[Reiwa]

Janny law =! player culture

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Wait wait, running around East Commonlands cannot be compared to waking the Sleeper. East Commonlands has nothing of import. Even if you hacked and killed every single NPC in the zone with a single key press it wouldn't affect anything in the game. Or as a more feasible example, a bard kiting every single mob in the zone wouldn't affect anything except a few low levels that might need to move a zone over because that damned bard is hogging all the mobs.

Waking the Sleeper irreversibly alters the game and forever locks out some content.

You cannot compare them.

Again, the rules have nothing to do with intent.

You know, for a while on Rallos Zek the Drowned Citizens would not aggro the guards. The guards happily ignored them. I used to use my bard to pull them into the newbie area and let them go by zoning. Those drowned citizens would wind up running around killing all the newbies that were there passing time because their main server was down (Rallos Zek newbie zones were very populated when another server was down). I wasn't training anyone, just bringing the drowned citizens to the surface and zoning, and when they walked back along the wall to their spawn hopefully they would aggro a newbie running around. If they didn't I'd go back and try again.

It was (to me) hilarious to zone back in and watch as they ran amok killing newbies indiscriminately, and watch as some would run to the guards for protection but the citizens would run right past them through the gates. Sometimes they'd be all over the place in WFP lol. You'd like run to the caster trainers and a drowned citizen was there in the street.

It was considered within the rules. I was petitioned for it, I know. No consequences other than a name change because I didn't actually train anyone but my name was a popular singer. You know because from my point of view I aggroed too many citizens and had to zone to save my life, is it my fault the guards don't kill them? Oops. Sorry bout the name thing though lol :D

They wound up patching the drowned citizens so the guards. It was no longer fun to bring them out into the yard and the city in general.

So it was malicious intent on my end but totally within the rules. And I wanted to share the story of how I got the drowned citizens patched to be killed by the guards lol.

Importance of content is irrelevant. Nobody is forcing you to get Warder loot, and plenty of players are happy without it. You are falsely assuming that importance of content matters.

Hacking the game is a problem, as it goes against the rules, and you will be punished for it. It's not the same thing as killing the Sleeper, which you can do without hacking the game or breaking the rules.

The game mechanics and server rules allow you to wake the Sleeper whenever you want. If you disagree with that, ask the P99 devs to change it or opt out of playing the game nobody is forcing you to play. People have been asking Warders to stay up for years, so I wouldn't hold my breath that the P99 devs want to change it.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The game mechanics and server rules allow you to wake the Sleeper whenever you want.

Don't be obtuse... no one is saying that waking the Sleeper is illegal or not meant to happen. There's plenty of shit that both the game mechanics and the server rules allow that are still considered by most to be a dick move if you actually do. It's all a matter of opinion and what side of the situation you're on, right?

You're literally sitting here trying to tell people their opinion that it was a dick move is wrong? Let me know how that goes.

For its time, after the lasting effects on the server were discovered, waking the Sleeper was known as one of the biggest dick moves a group of people can do in gaming history. Don't think that ST wasn't aware what the fallout would be when they decided to do it.

They just didn't care.

Our community response now determines how much the next guild thinking about doing it on the next incarnation of P99 cares. Stop trying to minimize our response.

[Raj]

Blah Blah Blah....
I have ass burgers, Im fat w very bad social skills and/or personality IRL and obviously few to no close friends IRL.

Im here to cheer-lead for guilds like Seal Team & Rampage even though 99% of their players could give a fuck less or even know me.


Finally an honest post, bud ty. And please stfu, nobody in their right mind is going to read any more of your terribly tedious and long-winded essays on this subject....lol!

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Don't be obtuse... no one is saying that waking the Sleeper is illegal or not meant to happen. There's plenty of shit that both the game mechanics and the server rules allow that are still considered by most to be a dick move if you actually do. It's all a matter of opinion and what side of the situation you're on, right?

You're literally sitting here trying to tell people their opinion that it was a dick move is wrong? Let me know how that goes.

For its time, after the lasting effects on the server were discovered, waking the Sleeper was known as one of the biggest dick moves a group of people can do in gaming history. Don't think that ST wasn't aware what the fallout would be when they decided to do it.

They just didn't care.

Our community response now determines how much the next guild thinking about doing it on the next incarnation of P99 cares. Stop trying to minimize our response.

I am not being obtuse. Anything that the community and developers have agreed upon to be a "dick move" has already been added to the PnP, or programmatically done to prevent you from doing it. That is why training is listed in the PnP, for example. Last time I checked, Sleeper wasn't included in the PnP.

You can be mad that Sleeper was awoken. I am not stopping anyone from doing that. I am not saying that I am not sympathetic you didn't get the loot you wanted either.

The only problem I have is people are using faulty logic to try and mask their distain for Seal Team. Just say "I don't like Seal Team, and I am mad that they woke the Sleeper!". You can do that all you want, I don't care. Just don't pretend your distain for Seal Team is actually a coherent argument as to why Sleeper shouldn't be awoken. It isn't. Any guild in P99 can wake Sleeper whenever they want, and for whatever reason. Until the P99 developers change that, you must live with it while playing on P99. You have literally agreed to it by opting in to playing the game.

[Trexller]

you guys are still bitching about this?

the Kerafyrn Derangement Syndrome is real in this thread

[YendorLootmonkey]

I am not being obtuse. Anything that the community and developers have agreed upon to be a "dick move" has already been added to the PnP, or programmatically done to prevent you from doing it. That is why training is listed in the PnP, for example.

Just because I can take my group and rules-lawyer a group camping Crypt into giving up a room or two doesn't mean it's not a dick move to them if we do it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Just because I can take my group and rules-lawyer a group camping Crypt into giving up a room or two doesn't mean it's not a dick move to them if we do it.

If you are playing by the rules, it isn't a dick move. You agreed to play a game where other players can do this. If you don't like it, ask for a rules change or opt out.

[zaneosak]

If you are playing by the rules, it isn't a dick move. You agreed to play a game where other players can do this. If you don't like it, ask for a rules change or opt out.

Lulwut? You can absolutely be playing by the rules and it be a dick move. If you're camping a spawn and you go take a shit and the mob is up for 30 seconds while you're afk and someone comes in and snipes it because you're afk for 30 seconds. That's within the rules and is a dick move.

I mean I can go into a church and yell "Fuck Jesus" and then walk out. It's not illegal, but it's a dick move.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Lulwut? You can absolutely be playing by the rules and it be a dick move. If you're camping a spawn and you go take a shit and the mob is up for 30 seconds while you're afk and someone comes in and snipes it because you're afk for 30 seconds. That's within the rules and is a dick move.

I mean I can go into a church and yell "Fuck Jesus" and then walk out. It's not illegal, but it's a dick move.

Yelling "Fuck Jesus" is generally against the rules in a Church lol. I am not sure why people think video game rules are comparable to real life law. They aren't. Video games have rules, they aren't bound by the law lol. You either agree to play by the rules, or you leave. It's really that simple.

[MrSparkle001]

you guys are still bitching about this?

the Kerafyrn Derangement Syndrome is real in this thread

Some of us are just having a slow day at the office lol.

[YendorLootmonkey]

If you are playing by the rules, it isn't a dick move.

That is an opinion and not a fact, lol.

Just because I can roll on and win two tunics in a row in a spore king group doesn't mean I should. It's why some people who actually care about not being dicks to other people would say "Pass... I just won a tunic." And other people might say "Well, your loot rules said full greed, so I'm rolling on this one too."

Guess which one the rest of the people in that group respect more.

[Elizondo]

I am not sure why people think video game rules are comparable to real life law.

no comment necessary

[zaneosak]

Yelling "Fuck Jesus" is generally against the rules in a Church lol. I am not sure why people think video game rules are comparable to real life law. They aren't. Video games have rules, they aren't bound by the law lol. You either agree to play by the rules, or you leave. It's really that simple.

So if someone is sitting at a spawn. Buffing up for the kill. And you snake their mob that's not a dick move because FTE is a thing? C'mon bro, don't be a dense fuck or people will think you look like your avatar in real life.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That is an opinion and not a fact, lol.

Just because I can roll on and win two tunics in a row in a spore king group doesn't mean I should. It's why some people who actually care about not being dicks to other people would say "Pass... I just won a tunic." And other people might say "Well, your loot rules said full greed, so I'm rolling on this one too."

Guess which one the rest of the people in that group respect more.

No, it is a fact, and an easily provable one:) Playing video games is an opt in experience. By opting in, you agree to the rules of the game. As long as people are playing the game, it isn't a dick move. Why? Because you have agreed that the rules are fair by opting in.

If you think killing people in a video game is a dick move, don't play shooting games. Just because you kill another player in Call of Duty, that doesn't make it a dick move. Both players have agreed to the rules that you can kill each other in Call of Duty. It isn't like killing someone in real life.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

So if someone is sitting at a spawn. Buffing up for the kill. And you snake their mob that's not a dick move because FTE is a thing? C'mon bro, don't be a dense fuck or people will think you look like your avatar in real life.

That is against the PnP camping rules, so yes it is a dick move. Please stop citing violations of the PnP rules lol, didn't I just say "playing by the rules" in the last few comments I made?

[Elizondo]

No, it is a fact, and an easily provable one:) Playing video games is an opt in experience. By opting in, you agree to the rules of the game. As long as people are playing the game, it isn't a dick move. Why? Because you have agreed that the rules are fair by opting in.

If you think killing people in a video game is a dick move, don't play shooting games. Just because you kill another player in Call of Duty, that doesn't make it a dick move. Both players have agreed to the rules that you can kill each other in Call of Duty. It isn't like killing someone in real life.

Server reputation is only earned by playing strictly by the rules and not their behavior?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Server reputation is only earned by playing strictly by the rules and not their behavior?

Your OPINION on other players does not factually make them a dick. Just because you think someone is a dick, doesn't make it true.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The problem here is there is a subset of people who are like "this is all just pixels in a video game, man" and another subset of people who are like "those are real human beings on the other end of that toon, and when P99 is over with, no one will remember what pixels I had... but they will remember the way I made them feel."

Which type of people would you prefer to spend your time with in this community?

Would you teach your children to treat others the same way?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

The problem here is there is a subset of people who are like "this is all just pixels in a video game, man" and another subset of people who are like "those are real human beings on the other end of that toon, and when P99 is over with, no one will remember what pixels I had... but they will remember the way I made them feel."

Which type of people would you prefer to spend your time with in this community?

Would you teach your children to treat others the same way?

I prefer to spend time with people who enjoy the game and don't complain when other people are playing the game as intended, by the rules. If you don't think the game is good because some loot is limited time, opt out.

[Elizondo]

Your OPINION on other players does not factually make them a dick. Just because you think someone is a dick, doesn't make it true.

Who is the overlord of the official "you're a dick' tag?

I know you're campaigning desperately for the position, but failing miserably

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Who is the overlord of the official "you're a dick' tag?

I know you're campaigning desperately for the position, but failing miserably

Nobody. That's the point lol. Your opinion that someone is a dick doesn't make it fact.

[MrSparkle001]

So if someone is sitting at a spawn. Buffing up for the kill. And you snake their mob that's not a dick move because FTE is a thing? C'mon bro, don't be a dense fuck or people will think you look like your avatar in real life.

Isn't it a sign of being sociopathic or narcissistic if you can't properly empathize with others? If someone can't see that that is a dick move, legal or not, they may need to consult with a professional.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Isn't it a sign of being sociopathic or narcissistic if you can't properly empathize with others? If someone can't see that that is a dick move, legal or not, they may need to consult with a professional.

People play video games for all sorts of reasons. One of the reasons is they get to do things in a game that they can't do in real life, because there aren't consequences.

Do you think anybody who plays Grand Theft Auto is a sociopath, because they ran someone over with a car? Of course not, they are doing it in Grand Theft Auto because it allows them to play out fantasies that most people realistically have, without actually hurting people.

[YendorLootmonkey]

No, it is a fact, and an easily provable one:) Playing video games is an opt in experience. By opting in, you agree to the rules of the game. As long as people are playing the game, it isn't a dick move. Why? Because you have agreed that the rules are fair by opting in.

If you don't think your actions and behavior in a video game, even when following the rules, do not impact other players' perceptions of you as a person, you've got a lot to learn, my friend.

You can't tell other people what is and isn't a dick move to them after you do it. The judgement has already been made. The best you can do is understand that it would be considered a dick move, even if not specifically prohibited by a ruleset, and choose to be the better person and not do it.

Your responses tell me you either don't care if people think you're a dick or not (i.e. sociopathic behavior) or you are incapable of determining what is a dick move towards others if it's not specifically prohibited in the rules (i.e. other mental problems I am not qualified to diagnose.)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you don't think your actions and behavior in a video game, even when following the rules, do not impact other players' perceptions of you as a person, you've got a lot to learn, my friend.

You can't tell other people what is and isn't a dick move to them after you do it. The judgement has already been made. The best you can do is understand that it would be considered a dick move, even if not specifically prohibited by a ruleset, and choose to be the better person and not do it.

Your responses tell me you either don't care if people think you're a dick or not (i.e. sociopathic behavior) or you are incapable of determining what is a dick move towards others if it's not specifically prohibited in the rules (i.e. other mental problems I am not qualified to diagnose.)

I never said actions don't impact perceptions. The problem is you assume people playing a video game care. Some people play video games to escape the real life requirement of having to manage your perception to others.

You can simply play the game as intended, and not have to worry about it. If other people claim you are a dick because you are playing the game as intended (which you agreed upon), that is honestly a you problem, no the other person you are accusing.

[YendorLootmonkey]

The problem is you assume people playing a video game care. Some people play video games to escape the real life requirement of having to manage your perception to others.

Correct, and those people are considered sociopaths because they refuse to empathize with the other human beings all over the world with feelings and aspirations and emotions they share the gamespace with.

This is exactly the mindset that breeds toxicity here and it needs to end.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Correct, and those people are considered sociopaths because they refuse to empathize with the other human beings all over the world with feelings and aspirations and emotions they share the gamespace with.

This is exactly the mindset that breeds toxicity here and it needs to end.

This is wrong. You don't have to be a sociopath lol. People play video games because they are easier than real life. Why do you assume people play games to put up with the same bullshit they have to in real life?

Are you the type of person who thinks anybody who plays Grand Theft Auto is a sociopath? Because playing Grand Theft Auto factually does not make you a sociopath. No studies have shown this.

[Elizondo]

Nobody. That's the point lol. Your opinion that someone is a dick doesn't make it fact.

People aren't just saying "you're a dick" for no reason

Behavior is the determining factor

Hope that helps

[DeathsSilkyMist]

People aren't just saying "you're a dick" for no reason

Behavior is the determining factor

Hope that helps

Yes, the people who are calling Seal Team dicks are behaving quite poorly. Glad we agree!

[YendorLootmonkey]

This is wrong. You don't have to be a sociopath lol. People play video games because they are easier than real life. Why do you assume people play games to put up with the same bullshit they have to in real life?

Are you the type of person who thinks anybody who plays Grand Theft Auto is a sociopath? Because playing Grand Theft Auto factually does not make you a sociopath. No studies have shown this.

No, I believe that someone who continuously demonstrates (or, rather, proudly boasts) that they don't give a shit about what other people think in a shared online community where your personal reputation matters (if you don't think it does, go pull some legal-but-dick moves on members of Guild X and then go apply to Guild X), and uses that to justify their selfish actions is a sociopath.

I have nothing else to contribute to this conversation, really... because it's clear to everyone else what type of person you are, if that wasn't already clear.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

No, I believe that someone who continuously demonstrates (or, rather, proudly boasts) that they don't give a shit about what other people think in a shared online community where your personal reputation matters (if you don't think it does, go pull some legal-but-dick moves on members of Guild X and then go apply to Guild X), and uses that to justify their selfish actions is a sociopath.

I have nothing else to contribute to this conversation, really... because it's clear to everyone else what type of person you are, if that wasn't already clear.

You are assuming that shit talking on the internet is inherently wrong, or intentionally malicious. Similar to video games, people use the internet as an outlet because it allows them to say things or do things they couldn't normally say or do in real life. That doesn't make them dicks, that makes them human. Obviously some things are dangerous, like posting other peoples real life information, but most of it is harmless fun and venting. Seal Team hasn't broken any rules, or done anything abnormal.

You are trying to make Everquest exactly like real life, which is silly. If you want to play real life, get off your computer and go outside.

[Elizondo]

Yes, the people who are calling Seal Team dicks are behaving quite poorly. Glad we agree!

People should be happy content was removed from the server forever by Seal Team?

[YendorLootmonkey]

This is wrong. You don't have to be a sociopath lol. People play video games because they are easier than real life. Why do you assume people play games to put up with the same bullshit they have to in real life?

Are you the type of person who thinks anybody who plays Grand Theft Auto is a sociopath? Because playing Grand Theft Auto factually does not make you a sociopath. No studies have shown this.

Sorry... one more thing to answer your strawman arguments...

When I play GTA Online, I expect to be run over. I expect to be griefed by some level 300 toolbar.

When I play CoD, I expect to be sniper, or killed by a camper.

When I play Everquest, I expect server reputation to matter, just like it did on Live. That means... don't be a dick to others, even if not specifically prohibited by rules/mechanics.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

People should be happy content was removed from the server forever by Seal Team?

I am not forcing you to be happy. You can be miserable if you want lol.

You agreed to play P99, which means you have opted in to playing a game with limited time loot. There are plenty of game that aren't like this if it bothers you. Go play them.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Sorry... one more thing to answer your strawman arguments...

When I play GTA Online, I expect to be run over. I expect to be griefed by some level 300 toolbag.

When I play CoD, I expect to be sniped or killed by a camper.

When I play Everquest, I expect server reputation to matter, just like it did on Live. That means... don't be a dick to others, even if not specifically prohibited by rules/mechanics.

Fixed.

[Elizondo]

I am not forcing you to be happy. You can be miserable if you want lol.

You agreed to play P99, which means you have opted in to playing a game with limited time loot. There are plenty of game that aren't like this if it bothers you. Go play them.

Sleeper has no timer though

Try again

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Sorry... one more thing to answer your strawman arguments...

When I play GTA Online, I expect to be run over. I expect to be griefed by some level 300 toolbar.

When I play CoD, I expect to be sniper, or killed by a camper.

When I play Everquest, I expect server reputation to matter, just like it did on Live. That means... don't be a dick to others, even if not specifically prohibited by rules/mechanics.

And there lies the problem.

Your expectations for GTA and CoD match perfectly.

Your expectations for P99 are unrealistic, because your definition of what is a dick doesn't match the definition of the gameplay mechanics and PnP. Your definition of dick is simply too inclusive, and doesn't match. I am sorry.

[Elizondo]

And there lies the problem.

Your expectations for GTA and CoD match perfectly.

Your expectations for P99 are unrealistic, because your definition of what is a dick doesn't match the definition of the gameplay mechanics and PnP. Your definition of dick is simply too inclusive, and doesn't match. I am sorry.

That's your opinion

Not fact

[DeathsSilkyMist]

That's your opinion

Not fact

It's fact. The gameplay mechanics and PnP are clear on P99. Just like the gameplay mechanics and PnP are clear on GTA and CoD. You can play the game and read the PnP. Please show me a video of the gameplay disproving this, or an excerpt from the PnP that says you can't wake the Sleeper.

[Elizondo]

It's fact. The gameplay mechanics and PnP are clear on P99. Just like the gameplay mechanics and PnP are clear on GTA and CoD. You can play the game and read the PnP. Please show me a video of the gameplay disproving this, or an excerpt from the PnP that says you can't wake the Sleeper.

Nope

Just your opinion. Again, you are trying to be the overlord of what the definition of a dick move is and trying to conflate human behavior with game mechanics

I told you pages ago you were digging a hole and you're now halfway to China

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Nope

Just your opinion. Again, you are trying to be the overlord of what the definition of a dick move is and trying to conflate human behavior with game mechanics

I told you pages ago you were digging a hole and you're now halfway to China

Please come back when you have some evidence to back up your claims. So far I have the P99 game mechanics and the PnP backing me up, while you have nothing. You are going back in to timeout.

[MrSparkle001]

People play video games for all sorts of reasons. One of the reasons is they get to do things in a game that they can't do in real life, because there aren't consequences.

Do you think anybody who plays Grand Theft Auto is a sociopath, because they ran someone over with a car? Of course not, they are doing it in Grand Theft Auto because it allows them to play out fantasies that most people realistically have, without actually hurting people.

Well I can say most people probably don't have fantasies about running people over and shooting up neighborhoods and use games like GTA to fulfill them.

But they're also not doing it to other players and negatively impacting their own gaming experiences. GTA is about shooting up the AI. There isn't someone on the other end that has to deal with the fact you just ran him over.

A better example would be playing on Everquest red servers. You will see all kinds of sociopathic behavior. Douchebaggery is the name of the game on a red server. It was back in the old days and it still is now. I'm not saying the players are sociopaths (some almost certainly are though lol) but the behavior is. Basically if you can ruin someone's play time on red, you do it. They're camping somewhere out of the way? Kill them. They're kiting in an unpopulated zone like Rathe Mountains? Kill them. They're putting up a good fight? Bring your friends, kill them then laugh and taunt them. Someone asking for help in chat? Taunt them then maybe hunt them down and kill them. Sociopathic all around.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Well I can say most people probably don't have fantasies about running people over and shooting up neighborhoods and use games like GTA to fulfill them.

But they're also not doing it to other players and negatively impacting their own gaming experiences. GTA is about shooting up the AI. There isn't someone on the other end that has to deal with the fact you just ran him over.

A better example would be playing on Everquest red servers. You will see all kinds of sociopathic behavior. Douchebaggery is the name of the game on a red server. It was back in the old days and it still is now. I'm not saying the players are sociopaths (some almost certainly are though lol) but the behavior is. Basically if you can ruin someone's play time on red, you do it. They're camping somewhere out of the way? Kill them. They're kiting in an unpopulated zone like Rathe Mountains? Kill them. They're putting up a good fight? Bring your friends, kill them then laugh and taunt them. Someone asking for help in chat? Taunt them then maybe hunt them down and kill them. Sociopathic all around.

Why do you think people play GTA? On some level they want to experience criminal activities without the consequence. Otherwise GTA wouldn't be a popular game.

PvP servers are a bad example, because yet again you opt in to play them:) Nobody is forcing you to play Red. If you don't know what PvP means after you opt in, that is honestly your problem, not the game's problem.

[MrSparkle001]

Oh I just remembered there is a GTA Online. I don't know a thing about it. I can imagine it's a pretty sociopathic experience though.

I've also heard stories about Red Dead Online. Between hacking and people running around murdering others it also sounds like a sociopath's wet dream.

But I don't know what the ingame consequences are of being killed by another. In a game like CoD or Battlefield it's nothing, just a part of the game. In a game like Escape From Tarkov you lose your items right? I don't know what GTA and Red Dead do.

I would say if GTA Online players behave at all like the single player GTA players it's a serious shitshow of douchebaggery everywhere lol.

[gkmarino]

On Red99 I was camping SRO for the AC for my Jboots on my lvl 48 monk. I was there for hours as it wasn't until the 9th night that it spawned. I killed it and was able to loot the Ancient Ring. One minute later a wizard sent me a tell, saying I was invis and could have blown you to pieces, but didn't want to ruin your day. So yes that Red99 player is better than Seal Team.

[MrSparkle001]

On Red99 I was camping SRO for the AC for my Jboots on my lvl 48 monk. I was there for hours as it wasn't until the 9th night that it spawned. I killed it and was able to loot the Ancient Ring. One minute later a wizard sent me a tell, saying I was invis and could have blown you to pieces, but didn't want to ruin your day. So yes that Red99 player is better than Seal Team.

A non-sociopath on Red99? I don't believe you.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

A non-sociopath on Red99? I don't believe you.

It's not sociopathic to play Red. You opt in to the server, and know it is PvP before you play. If you don't like PvP, don't play Red.

[MrSparkle001]

It's not sociopathic to play Red. You opt in to the server, and know it is PvP before you play. If you don't like PvP, don't play Red.

It doesn't have to be sociopathic but for some people it seems that's exactly what it's about.

I don't even remember what we were originally talking about.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

It doesn't have to be sociopathic but for some people it seems that's exactly what it's about.

I don't even remember what we were originally talking about.

Yes, but again the question is who cares? You opted in to play a PvP server. Nobody is forcing you to play a video game. Nobody is forcing you to play a video game you don't like.

It doesn't matter if the person killing you is a sociopath or the Pope, you agreed to it lol. You opted in to playing a game where random people can kill you at any time, for any reason.

[Crede]

You are trying to make Everquest exactly like real life, which is silly. If you want to play real life, get off your computer and go outside.

Your arguments are really flawed in that you are separating real life from EQ too much. Yes one is a game and one isn't, but both are built on math/logic & have humans interacting in them. The reason this game is so addicting is that it does closely resemble real life emotions on multiple layers.

Waking the sleeper on a locked server is a dick move but it is part of the rules.
Cutting in front of someone on the road is a dick move but also not inherently against the rules.

I'm not sure why you keep separating the game from real life. We're all interacting in a similar way. This is why nobody agrees with anything you says that's controversial. You form your arguments 100% based on logic, which is rarely the case when complex human emotions are involved.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Your arguments are really flawed in that you are separating real life from EQ too much. Yes one is a game and one isn't, but both are built on math/logic & have humans interacting in them. The reason this game is so addicting is that it does closely resemble real life emotions on multiple layers.

Waking the sleeper on a locked server is a dick move but it is part of the rules.
Cutting in front of someone on the road is a dick move but also not inherently against the rules.

I'm not sure why you keep separating the game from real life. We're all interacting in a similar way. This is why nobody agrees with anything you says that's controversial. You form your arguments 100% based on logic, which is rarely the case when complex human emotions are involved.

Oh, this is easy to explain. Real life and Everquest are different because you can opt in to Everquest, but you cannot opt in to real life. When you play Everquest, you agree to play by the game mechanics and rules created by the developers. If you don't like it, play another game.

In real life you can't do that. You are forced to play real life. You have to deal with whatever situation you have in life, which means you do need to worry about things like reputation, intent, etc.

People play video games because they can escape reality, not because they want to do the same exact thing they were doing in real life.

[Elizondo]

Please come back when you have some evidence to back up your claims. So far I have the P99 game mechanics and the PnP backing me up, while you have nothing. You are going back in to timeout.

lol there ya go again trying to weasel your way out

Choice = Human Behavior. Not Game Code

Hope that helps

[Ripqozko]

DSM is basically Vanquish in a nutshell, enjoy apping and hearing him/deso all day. Hope that helps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

DSM is basically Vanquish in a nutshell, enjoy apping and hearing him/deso all day. Hope that helps.

Imagine hating a guild of players on a game nobody is forcing you to play lol. Hope this helps.

[Ripqozko]

Imagine hating a guild of players on a game nobody is forcing you to play lol. Hope this helps.

Imagine being that autistic to reply for 30 pages over and over again.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Imagine being that autistic to reply for 30 pages over and over again.

Says the guy replying:)

[Ripqozko]

Says the guy replying:)

for 30 pages? nah brah, hope that helps. keep going tho you surely will win this.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

for 30 pages? nah brah, hope that helps. keep going tho you surely will win this.

If you are better, why reply at all? Clearly you think this forum is below you:)

[Elizondo]

On Red99 I was camping SRO for the AC for my Jboots on my lvl 48 monk. I was there for hours as it wasn't until the 9th night that it spawned. I killed it and was able to loot the Ancient Ring. One minute later a wizard sent me a tell, saying I was invis and could have blown you to pieces, but didn't want to ruin your day. So yes that Red99 player is better than Seal Team.

Player Choice

Like waking Sleeper

[Crede]

Oh, this is easy to explain. Real life and Everquest are different because you can opt in to Everquest, but you cannot opt in to real life. When you play Everquest, you agree to play by the game mechanics and rules created by the developers. If you don't like it, play another game.

In real life you can't do that. You are forced to play real life. You have to deal with whatever situation you have in life, which means you do need to worry about things like reputation, intent, etc.

People play video games because they can escape reality, not because they want to do the same exact thing they were doing in real life.

I say it's a dick move, you say it isn't. It's my opinion vs yours. The rules don't matter. I can still have an opinion despite the fact that I opted into this game.

Your opinion is that people play video games because they can escape reality, but I also feel that a lot of people are playing video games because they are fulfilling what they are not getting in reality(friends/improvements/etc.). I can keep going with this.

I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with presenting a "factual" argument in controversial matters that do not necessarily have a right/wrong answer, it's not helping anyone.

[MrSparkle001]

Player Choice

Like waking Sleeper

I think his argument is that the player choice is simply playing on the server. Nothing that players do on the server matters because they chose to play on the server and can choose to not play if they don't like it.

It's a flawed argument because it's ignoring the intent behind player actions.

So how does he consider good intentions? Someone gifted me a set of banded and someone else a decent weapon for cheap to get me started on Green. Intentions don't matter in that case because we three chose to play on the server? Lol no, obviously not. Those are purely good, friendly intentions from players that aren't dicks. Intentions matter even after you choose to play on the server with it's rules.

[unsunghero]

Well I can say most people probably don't have fantasies about running people over and shooting up neighborhoods and use games like GTA to fulfill them.

But they're also not doing it to other players and negatively impacting their own gaming experiences. GTA is about shooting up the AI. There isn't someone on the other end that has to deal with the fact you just ran him over.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I say it's a dick move, you say it isn't. It's my opinion vs yours. The rules don't matter. I can still have an opinion despite the fact that I opted into this game.

Your opinion is that people play video games because they can escape reality, but I also feel that a lot of people are playing video games because they are fulfilling what they are not getting in reality(friends/improvements/etc.). I can keep going with this.

I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with presenting a "factual" argument in controversial matters that do not necessarily have a right/wrong answer, it's not helping anyone.

It isn't simply opinion vs. opinion. You are trying to frame it this way to sweep facts under the rug. It is a fact that P99 has limited time loot, which you agree to every time you log in to P99. It is your opinion Seal Team are dicks, but there is no evidence to back it up. They agreed to play the same game you did. They played by the rules, and didn't cheat.

If your true intent was to play a game where you make friends, you have picked a very poor choice with P99 lol. It is a non-instanced MMO where scarcity is a primary mechanic. People are going to go the extra mile to get items that are scarce. This means there will be rivalry.

I am being honest, if you want a game where you get all the loot you want, and everybody is super friendly, play Final Fantasy 14. It is a great game. I am loving it myself. The simple problem is you are trying to force P99 to change because of your opinion, which is selfish. I am simply trying to keep it the same, because people like the way P99 is now. if they didn't, people wouldn't play lol.

[Elizondo]

I think his argument is that the player choice is simply playing on the server. Nothing that players do on the server matters because they chose to play on the server and can choose to not play if they don't like it.

It's a flawed argument because it's ignoring the intent behind player actions.

So how does he consider good intentions? Someone gifted me a set of banded and someone else a decent weapon for cheap to get me started on Green. Intentions don't matter in that case because we three chose to play on the server? Lol no, obviously not. Those are purely good, friendly intentions from players that aren't dicks. Intentions matter even after you choose to play on the server with it's rules.

Player reputation is earned through interaction with other players

Not gameplay mechanics

[Crede]

It isn't simply opinion vs. opinion. You are trying to frame it this way to sweep facts under the rug. It is a fact that P99 has limited time loot, which you agree to every time you log in to P99. It is your opinion Seal Team are dicks, but there is no evidence to back it up. They agreed to play the same game you did. They played by the rules, and didn't cheat.

If your true intent was to play a game where you make friends, you have picked a very poor choice with P99 lol. It is a non-instanced MMO where scarcity is a primary mechanic. People are going to go the extra mile to get items that are scarce. This means there will be rivalry.

I am being honest, if you want a game where you get all the loot you want, and everybody is super friendly, play Final Fantasy 14. It is a great game. I am loving it myself. The simple problem is you are trying to force P99 to change because of your opinion, which is selfish. I am simply trying to keep it the same, because people like the way P99 is now. if they didn't, people wouldn't play lol.

Again, it is your opinion that Seal Team are not dicks. And you have provided no evidence that they aren't dicks. You can do something by the rules, not cheat, and still be a dick, despite whether it's in game or IRL.

And I would agree that people who are using this game to substitute real life goals that is not healthy, but that's also a major reason this game is so addicting, is that there are so many real life like mechanics on top of the code.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I think his argument is that the player choice is simply playing on the server. Nothing that players do on the server matters because they chose to play on the server and can choose to not play if they don't like it.

It's a flawed argument because it's ignoring the intent behind player actions.

So how does he consider good intentions? Someone gifted me a set of banded and someone else a decent weapon for cheap to get me started on Green. Intentions don't matter in that case because we three chose to play on the server? Lol no, obviously not. Those are purely good, friendly intentions from players that aren't dicks. Intentions matter even after you choose to play on the server with it's rules.

That is not my argument. What I am saying is it is your choice to play P99. This means that you have agreed to play a game that has limited loot as a mechanic. You can't get mad about that specific game mechanic, because you have agreed to play with it. If you don't like that mechanic, you are free to play another game.

Intent doesn't matter if players are playing by the rules. Everybody has agreed to these rules. Intent only matters if players do not play by the rules, such as hacking, breaking the PnP, etc.

If you are talking about developing relationships with players, that is NOT a requirement of P99. You cannot force players to build a relationship with you, regardless of whether or not you think they are a dick. Just because they do not want to play the game the same way you do, that doesn't make them a dick.

Finally, some people do get pissed off if you try to give them free gear. They think you are looking down on them. Even if intent is good, that doesn't always mean the result is good. It's the same thing with evil intent. Even if the intent is evil, that doesn't mean the result is evil. You are falsely assuming waking the Sleeper is evil, which is why you are trying to glean intent. It is not evil, you have agreed to it by playing the game.

[Reiwa]

If you go see a movie and the movie is bad, you have no right to complain that it's bad because you went there voluntarily.

I am very intelligent.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If you go see a movie and the movie is bad, you have no right to complain that it's bad because you went there voluntarily.

I am very intelligent.

This is a bad analogy. A better analogy is people going to a movie and complaining the movie has sound. In their opinion, the movie shouldn't have sound, and everybody should be forced to watch silent movies.

[Reiwa]

This is a bad analogy. A better analogy is people going to a movie and complaining the movie has sound. In their opinion, the movie shouldn't have sound, and everybody should be forced to watch silent movies.

I don't follow.

[Elizondo]

This is a bad analogy. A better analogy is people going to a movie and complaining the movie has sound. In their opinion, the movie shouldn't have sound, and everybody should be forced to watch silent movies.

Your analogy is bad

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I don't follow.

I'll make it a little easier.

Everybody who goes to an action movie knows the movie is going to have... action in it.

Nobody is saying you can't comment on how good or bad the movie is.

But it is silly to complain that an action movie has action in it. You should have known before you sat down in the theater what kind of movie you were watching. If you wanted to see a love story, the answer is going to see a love story movie, not trying to turn the action movie into a love story.

[Reiwa]

I'll make it a little easier.

Everybody who goes to an action movie knows the movie is going to have... action in it.

Nobody is saying you can't comment on how good or bad the movie is.

But it is silly to complain that an action movie has action in it. You should have known before you sat down in the theater what kind of movie you were watching. If you wanted to see a love story, the answer is going to see a love story movie, not trying to turn the action movie into a love story.

Should why? Bossy.

[Reiwa]

If I go to the cinema to watch pornography, but it turns out to be gay pornography, why can't I be mad? :mad:

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If I go to the cinema to watch pornography, but it turns out to be gay pornography, why can't I be mad? :mad:

Easy. If you did not research the pornography first, it is your fault lol. It isn't like the theater was hiding what kind of pornography it was.

Unless you are trying to claim P99 has some false advertising that tricked you into playing P99?

[Reiwa]

Easy. If you did not research the pornography first, it is your fault lol. It isn't like the theater was hiding what kind of pornography it was.

Unless you are trying to claim P99 has some false advertising that tricked you into playing P99?

I did have the impression it was a fun video game when I first started. :p

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I did have the impression it was a fun video game when I first started. :p

And if you think P99 isn't fun, that's OK. I have no problem with that opinion:)

But you should have known going into the game that P99 has limited time loot. It doesn't hide that fact. If that is a serious cause of distress for you, you should consider playing one of the many other MMOs out there that give everybody the same stuff, with no limited time loot.

[Reiwa]

Fair enough.

[cyxthryth]

That is not my argument. What I am saying is it is your choice to play P99. This means that you have agreed to play a game that has limited loot as a mechanic. You can't get mad about that specific game mechanic, because you have agreed to play with it. If you don't like that mechanic, you are free to play another game.

Players can "agree to play" and still be mad about something that is allowed within the rules. Players can click "I agree to the rules" (regardless of what they say), knowingly, and still be mad about that thing that they are mad about. You are not able to control whether another person/player gets mad or not. If you don't like that, you are free to cope/seethe/mald or continue replying at your leisure.

Intent doesn't matter if players are playing by the rules. Everybody has agreed to these rules. Intent only matters if players do not play by the rules, such as hacking, breaking the PnP, etc.

You are assuming that by "agreeing to the rules" (whether by clicking on some actual "I agree" button or by actively playing) a player necessarily believes all those rules are fair & just, and that clicking/playing removes their ability to form an opinion on whether an action that is fully allowed within the guidelines of said rules/agreement, is a dick move or not. They are still able to think something is a dick move. You are not able to control whether another person/player thinks something is a dick move or not. If you don't like that, you are free to cope/seethe/mald or continue replying at your leisure.

If you are talking about developing relationships with players, that is NOT a requirement of P99. You cannot force players to build a relationship with you, regardless of whether or not you think they are a dick. Just because they do not want to play the game the same way you do, that doesn't make them a dick.

You cannot force people not to think someone is a dick or that a given action is "dickish"/"a dick move". Just because you want to do and post a lot doesn't mean you can/will. Sorry! You are, however, free to continue to cope/seethe/mald or continue replying at your leisure.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Players can "agree to play" and still be mad about something that is allowed within the rules. Players can click "I agree to the rules" (regardless of what they say), knowingly, and still be mad about that thing that they are mad about. You are not able to control whether another person/player gets mad or not. If you don't like that, you are free to cope/seethe/mald or continue replying at your leisure.



You are assuming that by "agreeing to the rules" (whether by clicking on some actual "I agree" button or by actively playing) a player necessarily believes all those rules are fair & just, and that clicking/playing removes their ability to form an opinion on whether an action that is fully allowed within the guidelines of said rules/agreement, is a dick move or not. They are still able to think something is a dick move. You are not able to control whether another person/player thinks something is a dick move or not. If you don't like that, you are free to cope/seethe/mald or continue replying at your leisure.



You cannot force people not to think someone is a dick or that a given action is "dickish"/"a dick move". Just because you want to do and post a lot doesn't mean you can/will. Sorry! You are, however, free to continue to cope/seethe/mald or continue replying at your leisure.

I am not forcing people to be happy. I am not restricting their free speech either. You are perfectly free to mald all you want:) I am simply saying you cannot use said malding as a valid argument as to why Sleeper should remain sleeping. You should know going in to P99 that some loot has a limited life span, including Warders. This has been true for literally years now. The entire history of Blue is available, and Green is following the same timeline. If you somehow didn't know that Sleeper could be awoken, that is your fault for not reading up on P99.

[Lewkeng]

Waking the sleeper is nothing more then wanting to denying people from warder loot.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Waking the sleeper is nothing more then wanting to denying people from warder loot.

As people are so fond of saying on this thread: "That is your opinion.":)

[Lewkeng]

Oh yeah and the most important part of waking him, is to say you did it.. duh

[Lewkeng]

As people are so fond of saying on this thread: "That is your opinion.":)

Yeah i know it is...

[cyxthryth]

I am not forcing people to be happy. I am not restricting their free speech either. You are perfectly free to mald all you want:) I am simply saying you cannot use said malding as a valid argument as to why Sleeper should remain sleeping. You should know going in to P99 that some loot has a limited life span, including Warders. This has been true for literally years now. The entire history of Blue is available, and Green is following the same timeline. If you somehow didn't know that Sleeper could be awoken, that is your fault for not reading up on P99.

I did not state any argument whether Sleeper should remain sleeping. Please review the post history it shouldn't take long, I made only one post in this thread - the only thing I did was state the FACT that you cannot control whether another person/player gets mad about something or believes a particular person is a dick, or a particular action is dickish.

Hope that helps. :3

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Oh yeah and the most important part of waking him, is to say you did it.. duh

Yes. Sometimes the experience is more important than the loot. Or do you only go to Vegas for the souvenirs?:)

[Lewkeng]

I say it's a dick move, you say it isn't. It's my opinion vs yours. The rules don't matter. I can still have an opinion despite the fact that I opted into this game.

Your opinion is that people play video games because they can escape reality, but I also feel that a lot of people are playing video games because they are fulfilling what they are not getting in reality(friends/improvements/etc.). I can keep going with this.

I'm not sure why you're so obsessed with presenting a "factual" argument in controversial matters that do not necessarily have a right/wrong answer, it's not helping anyone.



100% dick move to wake up him fresh server.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I did not state any argument whether Sleeper should remain sleeping. Please review the post history it shouldn't take long, I made only one post in this thread - the only thing I did was state the FACT that you cannot control whether another person/player gets mad about something or believes a particular person is a dick, or a particular action is dickish.

Hope that helps. :3

Ok... Nobody has made the argument that they could control other people's malding. Thank you Captain Obvious:)

[Lewkeng]

Yes. Sometimes the experience is more important than the loot. Or do you only go to Vegas for the souvenirs?:)


If it was for the experia ce and not to deny, it would of been made a open server thing. It was to deny the new guild the ability to kill warders, its always about that every time hes woke.

[zati]

100% dick move to wake up him fresh server.

Gotta be careful who you anger on P99 these days; most are retired vets with purple hearts who fought in a brutal war and have 2 inch dicks fully erect. You know the VIP(layers). A very special bunch of people :p

[cyxthryth]

Ok... Nobody has made the argument that they could control other people's malding. Thank you Captain Obvious:)

Yet there are multiple posts in this thread of you stating to/about other players that "If you (do/feel/say) X, then you cannot (do/feel/say) Y" as if you believed you were somehow better equipped to tell those others (whether actual or hypothetical) how they should feel than they themselves (the person in question) - please review the post history if you cannot remember posting them (which would be understandable!), they shouldn't be hard for you to find, thread is littered with 'em!

My purpose was to ensure you are aware you do not dictate how, whether, or what another person/player feels. I am glad that you have confirmed that you understand this fact, and you are most welcome! :3

[DeathsSilkyMist]

If it was for the experia ce and not to deny, it would of been made a open server thing. It was to deny the new guild the ability to kill warders, its always about that every time hes woke.

The unfortunate problem is people are going to be angry no matter what. It is part of the game, and everybody should know that. We do not have a European server, so right off the bat there are going to be hundreds of players who would miss the event, even if it was an open raid. There is simply no way to make everybody happy.

The problem with an open raid is ST is a keyed dungeon. Realistically speaking it would take so long to key a vast majority of the server than Sleeper would probably end up being awoken anyway, either on purpose or on accident.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Yet there are multiple posts in this thread of you stating to/about other players that "If you (do/feel/say) X, then you cannot (do/feel/say) Y" as if you believed you were somehow better equipped to tell those others (whether actual or hypothetical) how they should feel than they themselves (the person in question) - please review the post history if you cannot remember posting them (which would be understandable!), they shouldn't be hard for you to find, thread is littered with 'em!

My purpose was to ensure you are aware you do not dictate how, whether, or what another person/player feels. I am glad that you have confirmed that you understand this fact, and you are most welcome! :3

You have read them wrong. Please go back and re-read:)

[cyxthryth]

You have read them wrong. Please go back and re-read:)

You have provided no evidence that I have read them wrong. Please elaborate?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

You have provided no evidence that I have read them wrong. Please elaborate?

You are making the claim that I made a specific argument. It is up to you to prove that claim. The post history is here. I will patiently await the evidence you provide.

[cyxthryth]

You are making the claim that I made a specific argument. It is up to you to prove that claim. The post history is here. I will patiently await the evidence you provide.

I have made no claims, I have only stated fact and present this thread as my evidence. If you believe otherwise, that is your opinion. You have provided no evidence to the contrary.

[Lewkeng]

The unfortunate problem is people are going to be angry no matter what. It is part of the game, and everybody should know that. We do not have a European server, so right off the bat there are going to be hundreds of players who would miss the event, even if it was an open raid. There is simply no way to make everybody happy.

The problem with an open raid is ST is a keyed dungeon. Realistically speaking it would take so long to key a vast majority of the server than Sleeper would probably end up being awoken anyway, either on purpose or on accident.



Bruh, Waken the sleeper was always about not wanting the other guilds not to get warder loot, once the people in power have enough of it. Noody gives a fuck about the ones outside their own guild when it comes to warders, shit even there own guilld can fuck off at that point. Like i said 100% dick move to wake him on p99

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I have made no claims, I have only stated fact and present this thread as my evidence. If you believe otherwise, that is your opinion. You have provided no evidence to the contrary.

This is just silly. You are going in to timeout until you can prove the claim that you have made. I will not be responding to you until you do.

[cyxthryth]

This is just silly. You are going in to timeout until you can prove the claim that you have made. I will not be responding to you until you do.

What is silly? Please elaborate.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Bruh, Waken the sleeper was always about not wanting the other guilds not to get warder loot, once the people in power have enough of it. Noody gives a fuck about the ones outside their own guild when it comes to warders, shit even there own guilld can fuck off at that point. Like i said 100% dick move to wake him on p99

You may be 100% correct that waking Sleeper has always been about giving the finger to other guilds. But if that is the case, why did you play on P99? You knew you were going to be given the finger yet again. It isn't like this was a surprise. You agreed to this by logging in to P99.

[cyxthryth]

You may be 100% correct that waking Sleeper has always been about giving the finger to other guilds. But if that is the case, why did you play on P99? You knew you were going to be given the finger yet again. It isn't like this was a surprise. You agreed to this by logging in to P99.

Why are you asking 1 (or more)(real or hypothetical) player why they play(ed) P99 as if to imply that they should not (have) play(ed) it if it wasn't/didn't end up being EXACTLY what they expected/what they read about (LOL!) or as if to imply that they should feel/think differently than they do about the particular situation of the Sleeper being woken up & their potential chance to experience Warders on P99 Green simply because you say they should?

The fact is, they the 1 or more real or hypothetical player(s) can know it (the Sleeper being woken up) will happen (or not), think it's a dick move (or not), and play the game knowing/not knowing - and they can then be upset (or not) when it happens, even if it's somehow contrary to your feelings.

I'm sorry if that hurts your feelings & hope this post helps!

[matticas]

Waking the sleeper is nothing more then wanting to denying people from warder loot.

Only someone who hasn't farmed warders could see it this simplistically. Loot denial is a small part of it, and that only for a certain group of people. It's complicated, but you'll likely only be able to understand that after you've farmed them. Maybe next server.

[Lewkeng]

Only someone who hasn't farmed warders could see it this simplistically. Loot denial is a small part of it, and that only for a certain group of people. It's complicated, but you'll likely only be able to understand that after you've farmed them. Maybe next server.


Umm, its as simple as that. If i cared to see it i would of played green, i dont.

[Lewkeng]

It's not realistic to expect people to understand all of the nuances of this matter, heck even Seal Team did not anticipate all of the complexities of Sleeper's Tomb. As each key drops and months pass, it becomes abundantly clear that it's just not a sustainable situation to keep the sleeper asleep indefinitely.

The drama only becomes more intense every single cycle and the number of players that want to end it grows and grows. Eventually either you wake it or it is woken for you. It's a fallacy to assume that waking is simply a choice by one or two individuals because contrary to popular belief, guilds are not authoritarian regimes. Once a critical mass of keys has been obtained, it's only a matter of time. 6-12 months asleep is a good expectation for any Everquest server. The better the guild relations at the top end, the closer you can get to 12 months.

Due to Warders on p99 being 48-hour windows (6 day +-24hrs) and the Golems being 24hour windows, it pretty much turns Sleeper's Tomb into a 24/7 sock and kills any guild that attempts it for a long period of time. That is clearly a huge problem, which forces rotations. Rotations are kryptonite to competitive players, so if it were to work, on future servers, you would want Key parity at Velious launch so that by the time Warders can be killed, it would require cooperation. That way, neither guild has a dominant presence and is forced to rotate the content to get their warder loot. In theory that should keep the competitive players on the back foot for a longer period of time. That sort of scenario may keep the sleeper asleep for at least an additional 6 months I think. You do run the risk of alienating the competitive players who could splinter off and form a new guild and blow up the agreement. (given P99's history, this is actually quite likely).

So for the next P99 server, I would recommend the top guilds compete for keys immediately and hope parity of keying takes place and dramatically increases the number of players desiring Warder loot. Maintain good relations proactively and arrive at a rotation agreement as quickly as possible and find a way to keep the hardcore players content. Avoid competitive ST so that socking is side-stepped because that will only lead to waking.

It's a mess of a situation, I can assure you all of that. In the end, if you want warder loot it should be your goal from the moment Velious drops, otherwise, it's unlikely due to the tsunami of politics and drama that arises.



So bc your guild is tired of it, you wake the sleeper instead of letting the next guild come in and enjoy the farm, yup dick move.

[Lewkeng]

Dont get me wrong, i get it why he gets let loose. Its just like why... put it on rotation bc im 100% sure everyone would of had no problem with that, but people suck and dont like to let others enjoy things lol rather take it away. Its always been the case.

[Ripqozko]

sorry you dont got, hope that helps.

[Lewkeng]

sorry you dont got, hope that helps.


My SK had Shield of Clawed Guardian.

[Ripqozko]

My SK had Shield of Clawed Guardian.

np detoxx

[Vianna]

Could be worse, could be in a guild that made a decision to never compete for ST keys until 7 months into velious (1 month after rampage woke it on blue) then after 2 months claim competition is here why you waking it? “GMs don’t count seconds”

Your memory is terrible

[Toxigen]

Only someone who hasn't farmed warders could see it this simplistically. Loot denial is a small part of it, and that only for a certain group of people. It's complicated, but you'll likely only be able to understand that after you've farmed them. Maybe next server.

Nah. Loot denial is nearly 100% of it.

Imagine spending a similar number of hours on green as members of ST who have warder loot, but you don't got warder loot.

Yikes.

[MrSparkle001]

Looks like it might be another slow day at the office.

So what are we gonna argue about today?

[mattydef]

This is getting embarrassing for all of us.

[Lewkeng]

You may be 100% correct that waking Sleeper has always been about giving the finger to other guilds. But if that is the case, why did you play on P99? You knew you were going to be given the finger yet again. It isn't like this was a surprise. You agreed to this by logging in to P99.

Bruh, bc its 100% pointless to wake him rofl

[Lewkeng]

You may be 100% correct that waking Sleeper has always been about giving the finger to other guilds. But if that is the case, why did you play on P99? You knew you were going to be given the finger yet again. It isn't like this was a surprise. You agreed to this by logging in to P99.

Literally absolutely nothing is gained by it.. like nothing.. whats the point of waking him and take away content thats already limited on the server. Makes no difference to me i didnt come here for warders, its just a pointless thing to do.

[Allishia]

Essence lens quest isn't till after sleeper is woke right? I love my earring :p

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Essence lens quest isn't till after sleeper is woke right? I love my earring :p

Yes, you are unable to do the Essence Lens quest until Sleeper is awoken. If Sleeper remained Sleeping until the server shut down, you would never be able to do the Essence Lens quest.

[Scalem]

Essence lens quest isn't till after sleeper is woke right? I love my earring :p

int casters rejoice!