Face Diapers Don't Do Anything

[G13]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

Clinical scientific evidence challenges further the efficacy of facemasks to block human-to-human transmission or infectivity. A randomized controlled trial (RCT) of 246 participants (50%) symptomatic)] who were allocated to either wearing or not wearing surgical facemask, assessing viruses transmission including coronavirus . The results of this study showed that among symptomatic individuals (those with fever, cough, sore throat, runny nose ect…) there was no difference between wearing and not wearing facemask for coronavirus droplets transmission of particles of >5 µm. Among asymptomatic individuals, there was no droplets or aerosols coronavirus detected from any participant with or without the mask, suggesting that asymptomatic individuals do not transmit or infect other people. This was further supported by a study on infectivity where 445 asymptomatic individuals were exposed to asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 carrier (been positive for SARS-CoV-2) using close contact (shared quarantine space) for a median of 4 to 5 days. The study found that none of the 445 individuals was infected with SARS-CoV-2 confirmed by real-time reverse transcription polymerase

[loramin]

https://i.imgur.com/ofuR3M0.jpeg

[G13]

Stick to pasting the Per Level Hunting Guide Science Denier

[Kaveh]

Ok, but what if the masks make other people more comfortable and allow the country to open up faster? Would you stop being a contrarian and wear one if that were the case?

Redneck

[Cassawary]

the asymptomatic part is good news for schools. wearing a mask when you're sick is just common courtesy in polite societies.

[Jibartik]

I'm confused is this saying that covid is not contagious?

[G13]

Ok, but what if the masks make other people more comfortable and allow the country to open up faster? Would you stop being a contrarian and wear one if that were the case?

Redneck

We've been wearing them for no reason for over a year now

Sweden never bothered with them (or lockdowns) are have been up and running the entire time just fine

the asymptomatic part is good news for schools. wearing a mask when you're sick is just common courtesy in polite societies.

I agree with you

If you read further down in the study it goes into the detrimental health effects on perfectly healthy people wearing them for now reason however

[Cassawary]

I agree with you

https://i.imgur.com/PY4BBBk.jpg

[Jibartik]

American Covid Deaths: 15% of our population

Sweedish Covid Deaths: 14% of their population.

Canadian Covid Deaths: 11% of their population.

South Korean Covid Deaths: 0.00352941% of their population.

Japanese Covid Deaths: 0.007874016% of their population.

I dont believe this study.

[Snortles Chortles]

im not going to wear one outside
inside, fine

[starkind]

North Korea has already defeated Covid

[Jimjam]

What about <5 µm ?

[Gravydoo II]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

So why do people wear them in hospitals and during surgery and around people with weak immune systems after chemo etc??

[G13]

So why do people wear them in hospitals and during surgery and around people with weak immune systems after chemo etc??

From the link you didn't read:

The physical properties of medical and non-medical facemasks suggest that facemasks are ineffective to block viral particles due to their difference in scales. According to the current knowledge, the virus SARS-CoV-2 has a diameter of 60 nm to 140 nm [nanometers (billionth of a meter), while medical and non-medical facemasks’ thread diameter ranges from 55 µm to 440 µm [micrometers (one millionth of a meter), which is more than 1000 times larger. Due to the difference in sizes between SARS-CoV-2 diameter and facemasks thread diameter (the virus is 1000 times smaller), SARS-CoV-2 can easily pass through any facemask. In addition, the efficiency filtration rate of facemasks is poor, ranging from 0.7% in non-surgical, cotton-gauze woven mask to 26% in cotton sweeter material. With respect to surgical and N95 medical facemasks, the efficiency filtration rate falls to 15% and 58%, respectively when even small gap between the mask and the face exists

[Gravydoo II]

From the link you didn't read:

yeah but you said "dont do anything" meaning they are cosmetic, all of them. So... you're a fucking idiot. kys

[G13]

yeah but you said "dont do anything" meaning they are cosmetic, all of them. So... you're a fucking idiot. kys

In relation to Covid (which is why everyone is wearing them) they don't do anything

Be mad

[HalflingSpergand]

Face diapers do one thing, make u look like an absolute fuck stick bot

[GinnasP99]

If you're still walking around in a mask, I'm sorry, but you're an npc.

[Ennewi]

https://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(21)00116-8

[G13]

https://www.cell.com/biophysj/fulltext/S0006-3495(21)00116-8

They don't do anything

[Ennewi]

They don't do anything

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5gEyPRXtNU

[G13]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5gEyPRXtNU

They literally don't do anything for Covid

It's called Science

[Ennewi]

The scientific community would not consider one study to be definitive; no matter how thorough or conclusive that study is, more is the standard.

But just for argument's sake, even if masks only provide a false sense of security, consider the general public's track record with most any uncertainty faced just within the past two decades and then take into account the other news stories...

https://abc7chicago.com/easter-egg-hunt-shoving-orange-connecticut/1265195/

https://www.cbc.ca/archives/when-the-tickle-me-elmo-toy-craze-led-to-a-trampling-1.4921367

Cut to 2020's hand sanitizer and toilet paper shortages.

An adult pacifier that encourages people to talk less and avoid interacting with each other isn't exactly a bad thing. And, to my knowledge, the only harm has been from littering.

[G13]

The scientific community would not consider one study to be definitive; no matter how thorough or conclusive that study is, more is the standard.

But just for argument's sake, even if masks only provide a false sense of security, consider the general public's track record with most any uncertainty faced just within the past two decades and then take into account the other news stories...

https://abc7chicago.com/easter-egg-hunt-shoving-orange-connecticut/1265195/

https://www.cbc.ca/archives/when-the-tickle-me-elmo-toy-craze-led-to-a-trampling-1.4921367

Cut to 2020's hand sanitizer and toilet paper shortages.

An adult pacifier that encourages people to talk less and avoid interacting with each other isn't exactly a bad thing. And, to my knowledge, the only harm has been from littering.

According to the current knowledge, the virus SARS-CoV-2 has a diameter of 60 nm to 140 nm [nanometers (billionth of a meter), while medical and non-medical facemasks’ thread diameter ranges from 55 µm to 440 µm [micrometers (one millionth of a meter), which is more than 1000 times larger. Due to the difference in sizes between SARS-CoV-2 diameter and facemasks thread diameter (the virus is 1000 times smaller), SARS-CoV-2 can easily pass through any facemask.

If you can find a study that shows the Covid virus is 1000 times larger than what is currently known, please provide it

Otherwise, the rest of your post is an admission that masks don't do anything, but people need to be controlled because they want to buy an Elmo doll

[FatherSioux]

An adult pacifier that encourages people to talk less and avoid interacting with each other isn't exactly a bad thing. And, to my knowledge, the only harm has been from littering.

Sounds like a bad thing to me...

[Ennewi]

If you can find a study that shows the Covid virus is 1000 times larger than what is currently known, please provide it

Otherwise, the rest of your post is an admission that masks don't do anything, but people need to be controlled because they want to buy an Elmo doll

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/16/diamond-and-silk/medical-hypotheses-journal-article-lacks-evidence-/

In November, it published the article cited in the Facebook post, which was authored by Baruch Vainshelboim. The article says Vainshelboim works in a cardiology division of the U.S. Veterans Affairs Palo Alto Health Care System in California. He identifies himself in his LinkedIn profile as a clinical exercise physiologist, with a doctorate from University of Porto in Portugal.

The part of the article copied in the Facebook post lists 12 physiological effects as being caused by wearing a face mask. They include conditions such as hypoxemia and hypercapnia, as well as more general effects such as shortness of breath, "toxicity" and "increased muscle tension."

"This is a list of generally discredited hypotheses that have been tested and disproved," said Benjamin Neuman, biology professor at Texas A&M University and chief viologist of the university’s Global Health Research Complex.

"This seems to be a piece of deceptive writing from what appears to be a non-expert. It isn't science."

We tried to reach Vainshelboim by phone and email and did not receive a reply.

Our ruling
A widely shared Facebook post that links to a medical journal article says to "follow the science" of a list of physiological effects said to be caused by wearing masks.

The article was written by an exercise physiologist and was published by Medical Hypotheses, a journal that says its purpose is to publish "interesting theoretical papers."

There is not evidence to back the article’s list of claimed effects from mask wearing.

We rate the post False.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolitiFact

When time permits, I will try to find better sources.

But still, even if masks are ineffective against covid, they still protect against the spread of other viruses which cause people to believe they have covid symptoms. The positive result would then be fewer patients needlessly in hospital, thereby reducing the strain on medical professionals, which goes back to the point made about consumer behavior trends.

[Ennewi]

Sounds like a bad thing to me...

Try red.

[Ennewi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Sweet_(writer)
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrMatthewSweet/status/1383409595264036868

It’s by someone called Baruch Vainshelboim. He seems to be a sports physiologist with some link to Stanford. But the publication in which his work appears is not peer-reviewed, and it has weird spelling mistakes and footnotes with no page refs.

And here it is, cited in a classroom example of how to teach people to spot dubious scientific research on the internet. https://t.co/omrfDs7sKT?amp=1

So I think this why you were given a short ban. You misrepresented some random article on the internet as a Stanford peer-reviewed study, which Twitter probably counts as medical misinformation. Now you know this you can issue a correction to your 125k followers

[Ennewi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Hypotheses

Medical Hypotheses is a not-conventionally-peer reviewed[2] medical journal published by Elsevier. It was originally intended as a forum for unconventional ideas without the traditional filter of scientific peer review, "as long as (the ideas) are coherent and clearly expressed" in order to "foster the diversity and debate upon which the scientific process thrives."[3] The publication of papers on AIDS denialism[4][5][6] led to calls to remove it from PubMed, the United States National Library of Medicine online journal database.[5] Following the AIDS papers controversy, Elsevier forced a change in the journal's leadership. In June 2010, Elsevier announced that "Submitted manuscripts will be reviewed by the Editor and external reviewers to ensure their scientific merit".[7]

AIDS denialism papers and fallout
In 2009, the journal's publisher, Elsevier, withdrew two articles written by AIDS denialists that had been accepted for publication. One of the withdrawn articles, written by Peter Duesberg and David Rasnick, claimed that there is "yet no proof that HIV causes AIDS" and was not responsible for deaths in South Africa that another paper had attributed to it and misrepresented the results of medical research on antiretroviral drugs.[22][30] This paper had originally been submitted to the Journal of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndromes (JAIDS), but it was rejected after peer review. One of the editors of JAIDS later cited problems with the paper, alleging that it had contained cherry-picking and other dishonest claims.[31] The publisher stated that the articles "could potentially be damaging to global public health. Concern has also been expressed that the article contains potentially libelous material. Given these important signals of concern, we judge it correct to investigate the circumstances in which this article came to be published online."[30]

[Trexller]

yeah those of us still capable of independant thought already knew this.

You know how the recommendation is a cloth mask? Yeah, you heard that...

So let me ask you, how am I able to smell a fart through someones underwear and pants, if that material is the same or similiar to any cloth mask?

the covid virus particles are miniscule, and the water micro-droplets that the cloth mask is supposed to catch, are going to be a similiar size to the various chemicals that produce the smell, including water micro-droplets.

So again, if the mask is the answer, why can we still smell a fart? It all gets through the fabrics.

What you are all witnessing is called a civil obedience test. Mark my words, you have not seen the last of globalist agenda being jammed down your throat.

[Jibartik]

I have p95 mask because I am not a hayseed

[FatherSioux]

Indoors okay, whatever but this is theatre. Outside, eat my ass.

[Jibartik]

outside surrounded by hayseeds, p95 goes on.

[FatherSioux]

Hayseed is a great pejorative.

[Jibartik]

is this OP's crush (https://youtu.be/fjn_dtfaf_o?t=24)

[Ennewi]

Unsurprising, those also in support of Vainshelboim's assertions include...

https://www.aier.org/article/medical-journal-warns-about-maskss-potentially-devastating-consequences/

Which had this to say...

No matter how many times these people repeat the word “science,” they are promoting precisely the opposite of science: dogma. By contrast, Dr. Baruch Vainshelboim is pushing us to think more broadly and fundamentally, in a way that connects with pre-2020 intuition, and for this he deserves immense credit, as does Medical Hypothesis for having published this paper. Both make a courageous attempt to analyze the costs of adopting universal masking, which is to say advancing real science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Institute_for_Economic_Research

AIER issued a statement in October 2020 called the "Great Barrington Declaration" that argued for a herd immunity strategy to deal with the COVID-19 pandemic.[14] It was roundly condemned by public health experts.[14][15] Anthony Fauci, the White House's top infectious disease expert, called the declaration "total nonsense" and unscientific.[14] Tyler Cowen, a libertarian economist at George Mason University, wrote that while he sympathizes with a libertarian approach to deal with the pandemic, the declaration was dangerous and misguided.[16] The declaration was also criticized by the Niskanen Center,[17] a formerly libertarian think tank[18] that now calls itself moderate.[19]

AIER paid for ads on Facebook promoting its articles against government social distancing measures and mask mandates.[20]

And is funded in part by...

Over half of AIER's funding comes from its investments, but it also receives contributions and foundation grants. In 2018 it reportedly received US$68,100 from the Charles Koch Foundation, approximately 3% of AIER's revenue for the year.[20][8][14][1] It has partnered with Emergent Order, a public relations company also funded by the Charles Koch Foundation.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_family_foundations#Charles_Koch_Foundation

The Charles Koch Foundation was established in 2011, and is focused on grants and supporting higher education programs that analyze how free societies advance the well-being of mankind. It supports the Koch Institute's programs.[21] As of 2014, the Charles Koch Foundation has given grants to almost 300 colleges and universities, according to their website.[22] Brian Hooks, who formerly led the Mercatus Center, has served as the Foundation's president since 2014.[23]

In 2014, Koch Industries Inc. and the Charles Koch Foundation granted $25 million to the United Negro College Fund (UNCF).[24] In protest of the Kochs, the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, a major labor union, ended its annual $50,000–$60,000 support for the UNCF, saying that the UNCF's involvement with the Charles Koch Foundation was 'a betrayal of everything the UNCF stands for' because, they said, the Koch brothers were 'the single most prominent funders of efforts to prevent African-Americans from voting'.[25]

https://theberkshireedge.com/great-barrington-declaration-and-aier-feeling-heat-on-both-sides-of-the-atlantic/

a Koch-Funded PR agency, Emergent Order, aided AIER, which sponsored the Great Barrington Declaration. AIER paid Emergent Order $510,000 for “marketing consulting services.”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/inside-the-koch-brothers-toxic-empire-164403/

https://ivn.us/posts/charles-koch-boy-did-we-screw-up

[Horza]

https://i.imgur.com/n8p1mh8.jpg

[Ennewi]

I am a sissy and I will make a fuss.

[Cassawary]

Hayseed is a great pejorative.

Pejorative is a great word.

You are growing. 💗

[Arvan]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

So a sports physiologist funded by koch bros who is neither a scientist nor knows jack shit about epidemiology (neither do you) wrote an article and you consider it to be scientific gospel?

Well i guess this is part of whats wrong with people these days jeez

(Here is a hint look for scientific consensus not one offs)

[Cassawary]

yeah those of us still capable of independant thought already knew this.

You know how the recommendation is a cloth mask? Yeah, you heard that...

So let me ask you, how am I able to smell a fart through someones underwear and pants, if that material is the same or similiar to any cloth mask?

the covid virus particles are miniscule, and the water micro-droplets that the cloth mask is supposed to catch, are going to be a similiar size to the various chemicals that produce the smell, including water micro-droplets.

So again, if the mask is the answer, why can we still smell a fart? It all gets through the fabrics.

What you are all witnessing is called a civil obedience test. Mark my words, you have not seen the last of globalist agenda being jammed down your throat.

A strange hypothesis that can only be tested by putting a mask on my ass and farting into your mouth.

Was that your intent, weirdo?

[G13]

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/16/diamond-and-silk/medical-hypotheses-journal-article-lacks-evidence-/



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PolitiFact

When time permits, I will try to find better sources.

But still, even if masks are ineffective against covid, they still protect against the spread of other viruses which cause people to believe they have covid symptoms. The positive result would then be fewer patients needlessly in hospital, thereby reducing the strain on medical professionals, which goes back to the point made about consumer behavior trends.

Politifact? GTFO

Your sources are all shit

The masks don't do anything. Find me a source that makes the virus 1000 times larger than what it currently is. You're bringing up Koch Brothers and all kinds of stupid shit like that matters when it doesn't

If you can prove the virus is 1000 times larger than what is accepted SCIENCE than by all means, provide the evidence. Otherwise, stop wasting my time


(Here is a hint look for scientific consensus not one offs)

Find the scientific proof that the virus is 1000 times larger than what the scientific consensus currently is

Good Luck

[Jibartik]

What you are all witnessing is called a civil obedience test. Mark my words, you have not seen the last of globalist agenda being jammed down your throat.

https://i.imgur.com/CdJy2fe.gif

[Horza]

Politifact? GTFO

Your sources are all shit

You're bringing up Koch Brothers and all kinds of stupid shit like that matters when it doesn't

lol

[G13]

lol

Rolling Stone?

lol

[Horza]

When even George Mason University faculty say your claims are dangerous and misguided you may have a credibility problem.

[G13]

When even George Mason University faculty says your claims are dangerous and misguided you may have a credibility problem.

The virus is 1000 times smaller than mask entry points

Sorry your wikipedia links can't change that

[Jimjam]

Very interesting. Doesn’t it transmit in droplets, though?

Do masks have a hydrostatic effect to actively catch moisture? Idk?

[G13]

Very interesting. Doesn’t it transmit in droplets, though?

Do masks have a hydrostatic effect to actively catch moisture? Idk?

There has never been a randomized clinical trial I'm aware of that proves masks prevent Covid transmission. Maybe Ennewi can find one. These are all just recommendations from bureaucrats in lab coats to justify lock downs

Apparently many Covid transmissions are via aerosolized particles, not water droplets, which makes the masks even more pointless

We're talking about a virus one hundred times smaller than a micron

It's not just Covid either

There have been several clinical trials over the years which studied how effective masks were in preventing other illnesses such as the common cold

They all concluded masks did nothing to prevent the spread. A total waste of time.

Keep in mind most people are re-using the same mask over and over and have been for probably a year now. They only put in on so they can go inside the store and not be maniacally screamed at by people like Whorza

But what do any of those scientists know? They aren't a writer for Dr. Who like Matthew Sweet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMhGrcLLy1Y&t=18s

[Cassawary]

Very interesting. Doesn’t it transmit in droplets, though?

Do masks have a hydrostatic effect to actively catch moisture? Idk?

If your mask gets moist when you wear it, you might be a redneck.

[Ennewi]

Rolling Stone?

lol

Hunter S. Thompson wrote for the Rolling Stone, extensively. He's laughing at you from the grave, or rather the sky where his ashes were shot.

[Jimjam]

Perhaps the greatest evidence of the inefficiency of masks vs covid is how cold, flu and other respiratory infections have been almost eliminated in areas were precautions are implemented yet covid still runs wildfire?

I’m still wearing a mask while it still frosts at night though. So cozy.

[Ennewi]

Politifact? GTFO

Anticipating this response, an effort was already made to find other sources. But it is an obscure write-up by someone who isn't exactly a household name, so forgive me and the rest of the world for not having already discussed it at length in that one Facebook group on the FBI watchlist.

Your sources are all shit

The masks don't do anything.

Science major, check. Captain of the debate team, check. Charles Bronson avatar, check.

In the original link provided, note that the write-up is one of only three under the person's name absent of co-authors.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=Vainshelboim%20B%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=33303303&page=6

You're bringing up Koch Brothers and all kinds of stupid shit like that matters when it doesn't

Knowing who funds the research, or in this case who actively promotes its findings, is no less important than knowing who peer-reviews it. Transparency and credibility matter. And to that point, here's another article published by Med Hypotheses...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8016555/

The covid-2019 pandemic is an extraordinary event in the history of our civilization. Billions of people have never been restricted in their homes before.

Self-isolation is conducive to esoteric reflection, and we begun to ruminate about Gaia.

...

We better stop the destabilization of Gaia, because otherwise either we succeed in this reckless enterprise and destroy the ecosystem and our own existence, or Gaia recognizes our malicious character and invisible feedbacks eliminate us, as a destabilizing element. However, in order to harmonize with Gaia, we must improve our understanding of these invisible feedbacks.

Tunare meets midichlorians.

If you can prove the virus is 1000 times larger than what is accepted SCIENCE than by all means, provide the evidence. Otherwise, stop wasting my time

Find the scientific proof that the virus is 1000 times larger than what the scientific consensus currently is

One person does not a consensus make. Also, we are both checking this here elf sim forum on a Saturday night. It's safe to say that wasting time isn't a top concern for us at the moment.

There are actual experts out there who, though their time might be wasted, would gladly field that thousand dollar question of yours though, ones who have written and researched more about the subject than you, me, or this Baruch fellow.

But consider this: A single mask weighs less than half an ounce. A condom weighs even less. Not even an ounce of prevention. Of course, a condom would have violated the liberties of our fathers, eh? So here we are now, as a result, having this debate about the importance of wearing protection. And yada, yada, yada, history doesn't repeat itself, it rhymes.

Now, having said all of this, feel free to reframe it as...

https://youtu.be/Cv2PgWmQ1Lo

[Ennewi]

There has never been a randomized clinical trial I'm aware of that proves masks prevent Covid transmission. Maybe Ennewi can find one.

...

There have been several clinical trials over the years which studied how effective masks were in preventing other illnesses such as the common cold

They all concluded masks did nothing to prevent the spread. A total waste of time.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23413265/

2013 May 1
Rationale: We compared three policy options for the use of medical masks and N95 respirators in healthcare workers (HCWs).

Objectives: A cluster randomized clinical trial of 1,669 hospital-based HCWs in Beijing, China in the winter of 2009-2010.

Methods: Participants were randomized to medical masks, N95 respirators, or targeted use of N95 respirators while doing high-risk procedures or barrier nursing. Outcomes included clinical respiratory illness (CRI) and laboratory-confirmed respiratory pathogens in symptomatic subjects.

Measurements and main results: The rate of CRI was highest in the medical mask arm (98 of 572; 17%), followed by the targeted N95 arm (61 of 516; 11.8%), and the N95 arm (42 of 581; 7.2%) (P < 0.05). Bacterial respiratory tract colonization in subjects with CRI was highest in the medical mask arm (14.7%; 84 of 572), followed by the targeted N95 arm (10.1%; 52 of 516), and lowest in the N95 arm (6.2%; 36 of 581) (P = 0.02). After adjusting for confounders, only continuous use of N95 remained significant against CRI and bacterial colonization, and for just CRI compared with targeted N95 use. Targeted N95 use was not superior to medical masks.

Conclusions: Continuous use of N95 respirators was more efficacious against CRI than intermittent use of N95 or medical masks. Most policies for HCWs recommend use of medical masks alone or targeted N95 respirator use. Continuous use of N95s resulted in significantly lower rates of bacterial colonization, a novel finding that points to more research on the clinical significance of bacterial infection in symptomatic HCWs. This study provides further data to inform occupational policy options for HCWs. Clinical trial registered with Australian New Zealand Clinical Trials Registry http://www.anzctr.org.au (ACTRN 12609000778280).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4941587 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4941587/#:~:text=(i)%20Clinical%20respiratory%20illness%20 (,infection%20(detection%20of%20adenoviruses%2C%20 human)

(i) Clinical respiratory illness (CRI), 19 defined as two or more respiratory or one respiratory symptom and a systemic symptom; (ii) ILI, defined as fever ≥38°C plus one respiratory symptom (i.e. cough, runny nose, etc.); (iii) laboratory‐confirmed viral respiratory infection (detection of adenoviruses, human metapneumovirus, coronavirus 229E/NL63, parainfluenza viruses 1, 2 and 3, influenza viruses A and B, respiratory syncytial virus A and B, rhinovirus A/B and coronavirus OC43/HKU1 by multiplex PCR); (iv) laboratory‐confirmed influenza A or B and (v) adherence with mask/respirator use.

A bit tired to do a more thorough search, but that seems close enough.

But what do any of those scientists know? They aren't a writer for Dr. Who like Matthew Sweet

Those scientists have any names?

As for this Matthew fellow, you cherry picked his credentials of course, leaving out English journalist, broadcaster, cultural historian, and graduate of the University of Oxford. Granted, it's not warder loot but still, overlooking those other achievements seems wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMhGrcLLy1Y&t=18s

You included a 19 second video to show how mindless someone was, with the link set to the 18 second mark. An observation that speaks for itself?

[nostalgiaquest]

You included a 19 second video to show how mindless someone was, with the link set to the 18 second mark. An observation that speaks for itself?

lol, burn

[Ennewi]

https://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2008/07/03/medical-hypothesesjust-make-sh

Medical Hypotheses---"just make shit up; we'll publish it"

By sb admin on July 3, 2008.
Orac was kind enough to pollute my inbox with the latest idiocy from the journal that has never met a crank it didn't like. As Orac says, "Medical Hypotheses [is] the journal where the editors encourage the authors to make shit up."

Before I tell you about the latest "hypothesis", let me give you an idea of what kind of thinking goes into this publication. The latest issue has an editorial that argues that it is the "maverick" scientist who makes the real scientific breakthroughs, and that teamwork is only for the "modestly talented".

Not that there's anything inherently wrong with being somewhat unconventional, but "maverick" implies something specific: "a lone dissenter, as an intellectual, an artist, or a politician, who takes an independent stand apart from his or her associates."

Science works because individuals don't get to just "make shit up". If I have what I think is a crazy but great new idea, I have to test it, but even more important, others have to test it too and verify my findings. There is no "maverick" science, as ultimately, ideas must be tested in the wider community to be legitimized.

Mavericks have made interesting discoveries, but never in a vacuum. The Galileos of history worked in context, and they were not brilliant because of their "maverick-ness", but because they were right.

So, moving on to their latest "hypothesis"...

Autism spectrum disorders are complicated and multifactorial. We don't know much about cause. We do know, by epidemiologic studies that autism and vaccines are not causally associated. We also have no reason to suspect an infectious agent or, say, aliens.

But that doesn't stop a maverick.

A recent issue of Medical Hypotheses includes an article that tries to link autism to Lyme disease. Why pick those two diseases? Who knows. Perhaps because both attract a lot of cult medicine.

So let's examine this "hypothesis".

The paper doesn't start well, as it begs the question immediately. For example, it simply assumes there is an autism "epidemic" that is "spreading" while evidence has shown this epidemic to be largely artifact. They also note that "[a]n association between Lyme disease (LYD) and other tick-borne infections (TBI) during fetal development and in infancy with autism, autism spectrum disorders (ASD) and autistic symptoms has been noted by numerous clinicians and parents." I'm not sure what that means. If they are going to base a whole paper on a particular assertion/observation, they probably should cite some data. Just sayin'.

In the introduction, they also make a rather odd statement:



Since environment changes faster than genes, the rapidly emerging epidemic and geographical spread of ASD suggests significant environmental contributors, that may include infections.

W. T. F. First, is there a "geographic spread" of ASD? OK, let's just assume there is (after all, the authors did). If there is, does this geographic distribution match the distribution of Lyme infections? For instance, is ASD more common in New England and Long Island, where Lyme is endemic? Is it less common in the Southwest, where Lyme is vanishingly rare? Their odd statement about genes and environment is not some grand discovery. Finding environmental factors through epidemiologic studies is pretty, well, standard. I wonder if they did that? I wonder if they even read the extant literature? Apparently, their "epidemiology" was limited to directly comparing incidence of autism and of Lyme disease on a state by state basis, without clear definitions or the use of standard statistics. Here is their blindingly stupid observation:

In a geostatistical review of CDC and IDEA statistics 10 out of the top 15 states overlap for the incidence of autism and LYD (MN, ME, MA, MD, CT, WI, RI, NJ, PA, VA).



The science of statistical analysis was developed to do away with this type of primitive observation.

It's difficult to overstate how bad this paper is. First, it relies on the journal's stated preference for maverick (i.e. way the hell out there) ideas. It starts with a hypothesis whose implausibility
matched only by it's weak observational foundation. It then goes on to support this hypothesis with case reports and other weak "evidence".

Ideally, an unusual hypothesis like this serves to inspire work on a new idea (contrary to the "maverick theory"). For this to happen, the hypothesis must be based on a plausible idea (it will have to stand up to a Bayesian analysis at some point). This paper is not such a jumping-off point, unless you are jumping off a cliff into a pool of fantasy.

Medical Hypotheses is truly the journal where one can "just make shit up."

References

Robert C. Bransfield, Jeffrey S. Wulfman, William T. Harvey,
Anju I. Usman. The association between tick-borne infections,
Lyme borreliosis and autism spectrum disorders. Medical Hypotheses (2008) 70, 967-974.

[GinnasP99]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

Have a nice day.
Consider skateboarding.

[Nocht]

Nothing like the eternal wisdom of George Carlin in the morning!

I miss that guy.

[starkind]

Just wear a mask. Get one with fancy designs and like some maskuline logo. If your dick engourgement decreases... it's probably not the mask.

[Raev]

studies

Are we reading the same papers? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23413265/ compares medical masks to N95 respirators. There was no unmasked study control group. Further, a P value of 0.02 basically means the study is noise (while a 1/50 chance of randomness sounds impressive, the reality is that 50 trials were done and this is the only one that was published).https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4941587 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4941587/#:~:text=(i)%20Clinical%20respiratory%20illness%20 (,infection%20(detection%20of%20adenoviruses%2C%20 human) has the same problem and seems to be based on the same study. Simply put, there is no actual science supporting mask usage. https://aapsonline.org/mask-facts/ has a good summary of, yes, peer reviewed papers that show why. The biggest randomized clinical trial in Denmark (6000 participants) came up negative or, if you want to be generous, indicated a very, very small and not statistically significant reduction in transmission.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7680614/

I also read this paper. May I suggest you take a different tack? The guy is an exercise physiologist. His area of expertise is oxygen starvation. The biggest problem we have right now is "oh, it's no big deal, just wear a mask" people. What you should be saying is "Let us imagine that masks did somehow work and stop COVID. Guess what? They increase your resting heart rate by 5 bpm! They increase your stress response! Low oxygen causes CANCER! Where are your clinical studies that long term mask wearing is safe? Because you only have a 0.25% chance of dying from COVID aka the flu. If improving your odds there costs you a 10% chance of a bout with cancer due to low oxygenation, are you really winning?"

[Horza]

I also read this paper. May I suggest you take a different tack? The guy is an exercise physiologist. His area of expertise is oxygen starvation. The biggest problem we have right now is "oh, it's no big deal, just wear a mask" people. What you should be saying is "Let us imagine that masks did somehow work and stop COVID. Guess what? They increase your resting heart rate by 5 bpm! They increase your stress response! Low oxygen causes CANCER! Where are your clinical studies that long term mask wearing is safe? Because you only have a 0.25% chance of dying from COVID aka the flu. If improving your odds there costs you a 10% chance of a bout with cancer due to low oxygenation, are you really winning?"

Who needs to bother with peer review when we have ignorant Republicans eager to confirm their biases?

[Raev]

Science major, check.

By the way dude, I get it. It's pretty clear you have 15 IQ points on our pal G13 (not that he is stupid, by any means). I'd guess something like this is going on:

I'm a good person! I care about other people, and I wear a mask to keep them safe and, hey, even if it doesn't do all that much at least they can feel comfortable around me and I'm willing to make that sacrifice for them because I'm a good person. Hey, here's this retard on the internet posting an unreviewed paper claiming that I'm a BAD PERSON and my FACE DIAPER doesn't work. I'm going to go dunk on him in a polite way. <google search> OK, here's this paper regarding masks and N95 respirators. It doesn't say exactly what I was looking for, but if N95s are better than masks, masks should be better than nothing at all. And it's peer reviewed and a RCT! Plus, if I am wrong about this then I have to wonder why CNN, NPR, WaPo, and everyone I meet are telling me that masks work. IF they don't, then I have to reevaluate my whole life. All of my friends are suddenly idiots. That's definitely not the case, right? Of course not. I mean, my friends are good people too and they are all highly educated and interesting, intelligent people. I'm definitely not wrong, and I'll insert a few zingers just to make my intellectual superiority clear. <post>

I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for this because I tend to do the same thing. And you aren't wrong; you aren't a bad person at all. The problem is you are a PERSON. Even when you have the IQ points, it takes a huge amount of mental discipline to lock the emotional self away in a corner and prevent your mind from coming to the desired conclusion rather than the correct one, and I certainly don't always succeed myself.

So my challenge to you is: go read a few peer reviewed papers from both sides. Lock your emotional self away. See what conclusion you come to. Start with this one, the 6000 man Danish study (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817). There are, by the way, several flaws with it. I won't give away the surprise, though!

[Horza]

Defending a non-peer reviewed medical journal that's known mostly for promoting AIDS denialism while accusing the other guy of being brainwashed by the mainstream media is peak American conservatism.

[Jibartik]

"masks dont work unless theyre n95 but I wont get one of those instead ill post about how masks dont work I am very smart lol"

[Kaveh]

Being unemployed and posting Twitter articles 24/7 is peak American liberalism

[Byue]

Sweden is not the shining gun you think it is, for various reason.
First, if they don't want to work, they don't have to, because of strong social nets and this mean, if someone is sick, or think they are, they can safely stay home which already creates quite a drastically different experience than the US could ever hope to achieve.
Secondly, they are more educated.
Sorry not sorry but the USA is not known for their brightest, uh Florida.

Lastly, they didn't have to lockdown because most people did just that, of their own volition because that country cares about each others.

Also it is weird because sometimes, I just say, "the us is similar to that..." and before I get to finish my sentence, you get angry that I could have linked the US to an inferior country but then again, I forgot that if it further your agenda you will have no qualms comparing.

Lastly, it has truly been refreshing see people on the right spew shit like my body my choice.... about a mask?!

We see you, hypocrites.
We fucking see you.


Sweden is not the model you think it is, by any measure. (https://www.google.com/search?q=sweden+miracle+covid&rlz=1C1ONGR_enCA942CA942&oq=sweden+miracle+covid&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160j33i21.2638j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)

[Horza]

Being unable to distinguish leftists from liberals is peak American flyover.

[Kaveh]

Being unable to distinguish leftists from liberals is peak American flyover.

Got me there, you’re all dickless unemployeds to me

[Horza]

Got me there, you’re all dickless unemployeds to me

I don't know why a single person is worried about you lunatics having a chance in hell of making a comeback during the midterms.

[FatherSioux]

Would one of you DFL types care to lay out the requirements for masks not being required?

What hypothetical hurdles would a society have to clear before the reality is acceptable?

[Gwaihir]

Ok, but what if the masks make other people more comfortable and allow the country to open up faster? Would you stop being a contrarian and wear one if that were the case?

Redneck
Open up faster....
Don't be such a cock guzzler.
As if there's a correlation. There's not

[starkind]

If you incarcerate someone, holding them, against their will and with the threat of force or put them in a mental institution then force them to be around someone not wearing a mask or sick you are a murderer and a Nazi.

[G13]

Hunter S. Thompson wrote for the Rolling Stone, extensively. He's laughing at you from the grave, or rather the sky where his ashes were shot.

Rolling Stone ...

lol

Have you been able to change the size of the virus yet? Didn't think so.

Who needs to bother with peer review when we have ignorant Republicans eager to confirm their biases?

The guy linked a writer for Dr. Who to confirm his bias. Really?

Face Diapers are a symbol of control. Maskholes enjoy telling people what to do.

By the way dude, I get it. It's pretty clear you have 15 IQ points on our pal G13

Citing Politifact doesn't gain you 15 IQ points. I understand you were trying to be polite though, so I'll leave it at that.

Would one of you DFL types care to lay out the requirements for masks not being required?

What hypothetical hurdles would a society have to clear before the reality is acceptable?

If you live in Oregon prepare to be wearing one forever. I get it though, Dr. Who on Twitter is super super smart, so shut up, wear your diaper and science or something

Don't worry they promise to repeal it "someday"

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-oregon-6f7f919d27644d02c330da5a8648af95

If you incarcerate someone, holding them, against their will and with the threat of force or put them in a mental institution then force them to be around someone not wearing a mask or sick you are a murderer and a Nazi.

What about a Nursing Home?

[starkind]

OP is clearly angry about something.

https://i.imgur.com/9oXzTnJ.png



What about a Nursing Home?

Only healthy old age people who need assistance and companionship and structure and shuffledboard and miniputput golf and wateryoga and art therapy should be in nursing homes, the sick and diseased (regardless of age) should go to hospitals, hospice. That includes mental illnesses. Where they have more trained and more professional more licensced and more monitored staff and higher standards of medicine than just 'wipe everything with clorox haffassedly and feed them bromided bread and rat poisoned plastic shit'.

Also get rid of all of the administrators and upper management and send people to prison for not taking care of their folks. People who run nursing homes should be held under a tribunal of local people and shouldn't be allowed to live in palaces in China or Dubai or Russia. If they operate in the states. Maybe send people to foreign countries and pay them foreign aid so we just don't have to deal with it here. That'd suit replublicanism. Outsource the problem literally. The big problem is they can get out on the street here and have habeous corpus (deep /s).

[G13]

OP is clearly angry about something.

https://i.imgur.com/9oXzTnJ.png



Only healthy old age people who need assistance and companionship and structure should be in nursing homes, the sick and diseased should go to hospitals, hospice.

People who live in Oregon "Hold My Beer"

I agree the sick and diseased should be in Hospitals. Cuomo and other Blue State Governors shipped them off into Nursing Homes as virus bombs to thin the herd.

[starkind]

People who live in Oregon "Hold My Beer"

I agree the sick and diseased should be in Hospitals. Cuomo and other Blue State Governors shipped them off into Nursing Homes as virus bombs to thin the herd.

Ya that was fucked up. Watching this girl who was put in psyche should have been chained to an ICu bed, she was young too, wasted a life.

[starkind]

The redacted version of what I said is OKER, my big rant is terrible just ignore it. I'm in ragemode.

[starkind]

It's what's hiding under my male anger. And why I want power and have power fantasies.

[starkind]

The entire world is fucked up TLDR please take car4e of your families you are responsible karmicly and dharmicly for them.

sorry if ur poor and sick urself

[Byue]

Maskholes like telling people what to do.

Like republicans telling women they should keep their rapist's baby?

my body, my choice amirite lol.



edit: New-York city has less cases than all of Georgia.
With a very similar population.
Yet, a city. vs a state.

Red states win!

[Byue]

Cuomo and other Blue State Governors shipped them off into Nursing Homes as virus bombs to thin the herd.

Number of deaths in red state outperform blue states.


And obviously, you got less cases in red states who the fuck want to go to Idaho.
It's also relatively easier to socially distance in most red states. People there know it is easy because nobody lives there and this may be why sister fucking is such a big thing on pornhub but hey, we're not judging.


Less people, more death.
You guys doing great.

[G13]

Maskholes like telling people what to do.

Like republicans telling women they should keep their rapist's baby?

my body, my choice amirite lol.



edit: New-York city has less cases than all of Georgia.
With a very similar population.
Yet, a city. vs a state.

Red states win!



Number of deaths in red state outperform blue states.


And obviously, you got less cases in red states who the fuck want to go to Idaho.
It's also relatively easier to socially distance in most red states. People there know it is easy because nobody lives there and this may be why sister fucking is such a big thing on pornhub but hey, we're not judging.


Less people, more death.
You guys doing great.

u mad?

why so much children abuse bro?

[G13]

lol

14413

https://torontosun.com/news/world/epsteins-sick-mantra-on-teen-sex-victims-the-younger-the-better

[Byue]

u mad?

why so much children abuse bro?

Be clear about what you mean.

[G13]

Be clear about what you mean.

14414

[Horza]

Be clear about what you mean.

All that he has left to fall back on is QAnon garbage.

jC2jsRrzCrs

[G13]

All that he has left to fall back on is QAnon garbage.

You keep trying to derail the thread with conspiracy theories

lol

[Horza]

Trump wishing alleged sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell well is no theory.

[G13]

Trump wishing alleged sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell well is no theory.

If Trump shows up on Epstein's flight logs let me know and make a thread about that

Otherwise stop trolling and attempting to derail every thread with your antics

[Bardp1999]

Hope this helps

https://i.imgur.com/L6QN5Ju.jpg

[starkind]

it should decrease the general velocity of the face farts as well and make the spread smaller and in less numbers

[Trexller]

@bardp1999

some weird fetish you got there bro

[Kaveh]

Number of deaths in red state outperform blue states.


And obviously, you got less cases in red states who the fuck want to go to Idaho.
It's also relatively easier to socially distance in most red states. People there know it is easy because nobody lives there and this may be why sister fucking is such a big thing on pornhub but hey, we're not judging.


Less people, more death.
You guys doing great.

New York and New Jersey did quite poorly

Florida is a “red” state and has a disproportionate number of morons and seems to have done OK by American standards. I don’t think it’s as simple as population density and who sits in the gubernatorial office.

[G13]

Hope this helps

https://i.imgur.com/L6QN5Ju.jpg

Nope

No help whatsoever

[starkind]

Am I allowed to believe in face diapers and wear one, or two, or three?? if so that's kewl, I'm happy IDGAF what other non stellar ppl do or don't do

honestly during non pandemic seasons i just want to go all Quarian anyway

https://i.imgur.com/nIMJih.jpg

No one needs to see what I look like when I'm RFID'd

[FatherSioux]

Trump wishing alleged sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell well is no theory.

It's definitively a theory.

[Raev]

Horza, pal, you have got to graduate from the Red/Blue hate machine. When it comes to actually important issues like medical tyranny and printing money there is no difference between the parties. Trump initiated Operation Warp Speed which was directly responsible for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine fiasco and the upcoming Pfizer & Moderna vaccine fiascos. You can tell Trump was controlled opposition by the way the media covered him constantly. In contrast, when Ron Paul was leading the Republican nomination he simply disappeared. I remember the Daily Show calling out Fox news for a report on the Iowa Primary where they covered the politicians who came in 1/3/4/5 and they simply refused to admit Ron Paul (#2) existed.

G13, I hope you were not too offended by my comment. I am increasingly convinced that people with greater intellects only generate better rationalizations of whatever positions their emotions demand they take. But I think you are underestimating Ennewi a bit; I'm guessing his IQ is quite high.

[Bardp1999]

im not going to wear one outside
inside, fine

https://i.imgur.com/2gDzd72.jpg

[Horza]

Ron Paul lol

It's definitively a theory.

jC2jsRrzCrs

[Trexller]

“Those that trade essential liberties for temporary security deserve to have neither.” -Benjamin Franklin

[Byue]

It's absurd.

There is a strong trail between Trump and Epstein.

And eh did wish Ghislaine Maxwell well.

"he's a lot of fun to be with" trump, talking about Epstein.


We... we have access to the same google, right?
Or is there a conservopedia that searches for right wingers abstract and alternative results?

[Byue]

“Those that trade essential liberties for temporary security deserve to have neither.” -Benjamin Franklin

He was talking about the japanese camps in america bro. /s

[G13]

G13, I hope you were not too offended by my comment. I am increasingly convinced that people with greater intellects only generate better rationalizations of whatever positions their emotions demand they take. But I think you are underestimating Ennewi a bit; I'm guessing his IQ is quite high.

No offense taken at all

I agree he is very intelligent. I wouldn't take that away from him, but even the most intelligent people among us sometimes are unable to discern when politics is influencing medical decisions

Intelligence doesn't necessary = Common Sense

[Kaveh]

Horza, pal, you have got to graduate from the Red/Blue hate machine. When it comes to actually important issues like medical tyranny and printing money there is no difference between the parties. Trump initiated Operation Warp Speed which was directly responsible for the Johnson and Johnson vaccine fiasco and the upcoming Pfizer & Moderna vaccine fiascos. You can tell Trump was controlled opposition by the way the media covered him constantly. In contrast, when Ron Paul was leading the Republican nomination he simply disappeared. I remember the Daily Show calling out Fox news for a report on the Iowa Primary where they covered the politicians who came in 1/3/4/5 and they simply refused to admit Ron Paul (#2) existed.

G13, I hope you were not too offended by my comment. I am increasingly convinced that people with greater intellects only generate better rationalizations of whatever positions their emotions demand they take. But I think you are underestimating Ennewi a bit; I'm guessing his IQ is quite high.

6 cases of clotting out of 6.8 million doses administered is a fiasco? Tylenol kills more people

[Trexller]

He was talking about the japanese camps in america bro. /s

So ben franklin was still alive in the 1940s? got it.

[Byue]

So ben franklin was still alive in the 1940s? got it.

No edits and a /s.

This should be clear enough.
But I'll one up myself: America doesn't seem to mind taking liberties from some to gain a bit more security. Virtually everyone on earth is being spied upon, right now, by the NSA.

What a shitty sentence to say as an American and even worse, as a republican.
lol.

Edit: preemptive strikes wins the day, too.

[Horza]

Can someone just tell me why Trump wished sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell well if he isn't a kiddy fucker?

[G13]

Can someone just tell me why Trump wished sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell well if he isn't a kiddy fucker?

Only if you tell us why Clinton is all over his flight logs to "Pedo Island"

[Cassawary]

Can someone just tell me why Trump wished sex trafficker Ghislaine Maxwell well if he isn't a kiddy fucker?

DoJ is part of the executive branch, so he can't, as executive, be showing bias or it could ruin the case. I think he was trying to be neutral but is also an idiot.

qzonqHWUdVw

[Byue]

DoJ is part of the executive branch, so he can't, as executive, be showing bias or it could ruin the case. I think he was trying to be neutral but is also an idiot.

qzonqHWUdVw

or, or, and this is just an idea, he did party with Epstein like the photos we have as proof confirm.

Edi: man up, be honest, if Biden wished Ghislaine Maxwell well, would you try to find a reason or... people's court convict?

[G13]

I certainly won't be voting for Clinton in 2024, but can you say the same about pedo Trump?

14416

[Horza]

Hillary isn't going to primary Biden and I'm not sure what she has to do with your willingness to continue supporting a pedophile like Trump.

[Byue]

Hillary isn't going to primary Biden and I'm not sure what she has to do with your willingness to continue supporting a pedophile like Trump.

if he continues talking about Hilary, you have less energy to show him his own lies, his dear leader lies and the way his reasoning is rotten.

[Cassawary]

or, or, and this is just an idea, he did party with Epstein like the photos we have as proof confirm.

Edi: man up, be honest, if Biden wished Ghislaine Maxwell well, would you try to find a reason or... people's court convict?

Yeah I would, I mostly just like being contrary.

[G13]

Hillary isn't going to primary Biden and I'm not sure what she has to do with your willingness to continue supporting a pedophile like Trump.

Biden can barely read a teleprompter

What are you smoking?

[Byue]

Yeah I would, I mostly just like being contrary.

fair & candid.

[Gynecologist]

Lol p99 community so lame now rip

[Byue]

Biden can barely read a teleprompter

What are you smoking?


Trump made great speeches and for the first few months of his presidency, almost read from the transcript well, too. Good one.

[Toxigen]

Haven't worn a mask for almost a month. Not planning to put one on ever again.

If you got the vaccine you're a fucking idiot.

[bubur]

If you got the vaccine you're a fucking idiot.

i got it and can confirm

vasectomies are pretty expensive though so its a win win for me if it goes bad

[FatherSioux]

Anti vaccine crowd makes it easy to spot the ones to keep the kids away from.

[Byue]

If I presented you with 100 chocolate pieces and said 1 of those is dog shit, you would probably not eat those chocolate and i's just a 1% chance.

I really hope you do get covid.
please infect your parents just so that if you happen to survive without repercussion, you might still feel bad about it but it's ok, they had comorbidities: they were old and that is what old people do: they die.

Edit: I am not mean, I apparently wish you something fake but even if it was real, nobody dies from it. But since I wished you get it and that your parents do too, we'll see how outraged you are and how stupid I am and etc.

[FatherSioux]

I think I speak for many, we all hope you find peace. We also hope you find your medication.

[Byue]

Biden can barely read a teleprompter

What are you smoking?

I think I speak for many, we all hope you find peace. We also hope you find your medication.

This forum has:


a resident nazi
one dude constantly praising bombing other countries.
one dude who speaks of jesus and the fall of morals in the 21st century.
always-Trumpets who will literally tell you that there is no photos of Trump and Epstein together like google doesn't exist.
Someone who is an immigrants but hate immigrants.
fascists elements.
compulsive liars.


and somehow I am singled out for the medication?

Is this because I remind you of your shitty history, or the fact you never really won a war by yourself unless it was against native women and children lacking your technology or against other Americans. Or when I remind you that everything you hate about this world is probably on the right wing of the spectrum and definitely rooted in capitalism?

What gives.

[HalflingSpergand]

I hope u find peace but skip the meds

[Byue]

I hope u find peace but skip the meds

I'm not on meds.
I'm educated which seem crazy when you're not.

[hobart]

but even the most intelligent people among us sometimes are unable to discern when politics is influencing medical decisions

Intelligence doesn't necessary = Common Sense

That's you Trumptard. Except the intelligent part.

There's no upside to conspiring to trick the public into wearing masks. There's only the >0%<100% net benefit.

The virus doesn't fly around on little bee wings. Masks are somewhat effective in containing and filtering someof the fluids in which the virus can travel. It's also effective in doing the same for other viruses. The net effect of all of this is a reduction in hospitalizations which helps keep the health care system from getting overwhelmed which is when deaths spike. How are you too stupid to understand this?

[Jibartik]

This forum has:


a resident nazi
one dude constantly praising bombing other countries.
one dude who speaks of jesus and the fall of morals in the 21st century.
always-Trumpets who will literally tell you that there is no photos of Trump and Epstein together like google doesn't exist.
Someone who is an immigrants but hate immigrants.
fascists elements.
compulsive liars.


and somehow I am singled out for the medication?

Is this because I remind you of your shitty history, or the fact you never really won a war by yourself unless it was against native women and children lacking your technology or against other Americans. Or when I remind you that everything you hate about this world is probably on the right wing of the spectrum and definitely rooted in capitalism?

What gives.

do me

[HalflingSpergand]

No u seem pretty basic , almost robotic

[Jibartik]

wrong account

[HalflingSpergand]

Was talking to the french fry

[Byue]

wrong account

fuck.

No u seem pretty basic , almost robotic
It's because I'm educated, logical and honest.

I mean, again, some people here are like, "bomb the middle east and make a glass crater out of it for all I care he eh he" and I am... almost robotic?
I am very human.
I have flaws. I mention them, I get upset, I apologize, I get high, I get back down, I get angry and cranky, relaxed and nice and I mean, you seen me doing most of those while some of you have only one mode on: mean, pro-trump and fuck all the left.

Which is more robotic?

[HalflingSpergand]

Ok maybe a robotic woman

[Byue]

Ok maybe a robotic woman

would still refuse to suck your dick.
Even if I was a woman.
The last woman on earth and you, the last man.
Find a nearby gun. Blow my brains out. bye.

I guess if I was a robot I would fit your fantasy more because even though I want to refuse, you would program me to do it.
Even if it disgust me.

[bubur]

I feel like we're making break thrus here

whose rdy for the vegas meet up

[G13]

That's you Trumptard. Except the intelligent part.

There's no upside to conspiring to trick the public into wearing masks. There's only the >0%<100% net benefit.

The virus doesn't fly around on little bee wings. Masks are somewhat effective in containing and filtering someof the fluids in which the virus can travel. It's also effective in doing the same for other viruses. The net effect of all of this is a reduction in hospitalizations which helps keep the health care system from getting overwhelmed which is when deaths spike. How are you too stupid to understand this?

They don't do anything. Face Diapers are pointless.

All Maskholes are Democrats

Democrats are all about control and telling other people what to do because they are miserable and hate themselves

[Cassawary]

would still refuse to suck your dick.
Even if I was a woman.
The last woman on earth and you, the last man.
Find a nearby gun. Blow my brains out. bye.

I guess if I was a robot I would fit your fantasy more because even though I want to refuse, you would program me to do it.
Even if it disgust me.

It's every man's dream to be the progenitor of a recapitulating species :o

@jib

[bubur]

speaking of

If I presented you with 100 chocolate pieces and said 1 of those is dog shit, you would probably not eat those chocolate and i's just a 1% chance.

I really hope you do get covid.

I'd beat any of you pussies in choco-shit roulette. I'll bet my manastone on it. fuck it I'll go to 40 chocos just by myself. present them

[Byue]

speaking of



I'd beat any of you pussies in choco-shit roulette. I'll bet my manastone on it. fuck it I'll go to 40 chocos just by myself. present them


Yo if a manastone is in play, let's twitch it out. I can arrange it.
I can bake 100 chocolates. have you inspect them through camera and have someone chooses for us.

Edit: plus you sort of win because I eat my chocolate while I just open yours see if you ate shit. so if i get the shit one, you will know. :'(


I feel like we're making break thrus here

whose rdy for the vegas meet up

I don't really want to get shot but perhaps I could visit the US when this all blows over.

[Kaveh]

If I presented you with 100 chocolate pieces and said 1 of those is dog shit, you would probably not eat those chocolate and i's just a 1% chance.

I really hope you do get covid.
please infect your parents just so that if you happen to survive without repercussion, you might still feel bad about it but it's ok, they had comorbidities: they were old and that is what old people do: they die.

Edit: I am not mean, I apparently wish you something fake but even if it was real, nobody dies from it. But since I wished you get it and that your parents do too, we'll see how outraged you are and how stupid I am and etc.

Ummm why would I take a 1/100 chance of eating dog shit? What is wrong with Canada? All this time we’ve been in Afghanistan and we should’ve been pounding you guys

[bubur]

I've made worse wagers

like on election night HEH

[Byue]

Ummm why would I take a 1/100 chance of eating dog shit? What is wrong with Canada? All this time we’ve been in Afghanistan and we should’ve been pounding you guys

I took the most conservative numbers on covid. 1% death.
Most people here laugh at covid but wouldn't laugh at eating shit.

Tho I would much rather eat dog shit than die.

This is showing hypocrisy in action, you see. :)

[Kaveh]

Please don’t eat dog shit dude, proving a point isn’t worth it

[Byue]

I've made worse wagers like on election night HEH

We all know the feel.
Luckily, for the most part, Amerikkka hasn't really changed, it's still global empire and shit. It's not like your life depended on it say like the referendum in which Pinochet asked the Chileans if they wanted to continue having a dictator propped up by the US or become a democracy.

Please don’t eat dog shit dude, proving a point isn’t worth it


You walked right in the trap, and it's ok that you do this because when you fall in front of others, it makes you vulnerable.

I don't want to eat dog shit.
Nobody wants to.
Get covid.

[bubur]

ya I mean if it was a 1% chance of cyanide, may have to think on it a bit or have a few bros there to hold my hand

but my dog eats shit all the time it can't be that bad. for real though, trying to get him to stop

[hobart]

They don't do anything. Face Diapers are pointless.

All Maskholes are Democrats

Democrats are all about control and telling other people what to do because they are miserable and hate themselves

Every medical licensing board in every state disagrees with you.

Next time you get sick or need surgery, don't go to a doctor. They're all dumb and have fallen for the conspiracy for years.

[G13]

Every medical licensing board in every state disagrees with you.

Next time you get sick or need surgery, don't go to a doctor. They're all dumb and have fallen for the conspiracy for years.

What a pathetic strawman. Surgery is completely different than an ever evolving mask policy that magically grants the politicians whose boots you like near absolute power

Fraudci is all over the place commenting on things that have nothing to do with medicine and contradicting himself literally from one interview to the next. The guy has become a prostitute for left wing talk shows pushing fear porn. Narcissism on full display.

Medicine has been infected by Politics. The Left infects everything with their junk politics and junk science like Global Warming. You can't even watch a football game without some millionaire many times over bending his knee pretending to be a victim.

By all means, wear your face diaper and appeal to the bureaucrats in lab coats for authority if it makes you feel better, but people like you are annoying and stupid because you're merely using this situation to try and tell people what to do. It's annoying and you're stupid.

[Byue]

yeah fuck rich folks who think they are victim.

LIKE DONALD FUCKING TRUMP.

Is it weird that by most measures, leftist countries tend to do better, overall.
Especially when it come to covid.

Brazil right wing is pretty fucking strong to the point where their president is basically a Trump replica saying things like I wouldn't even rape you, you're too ugly to journalists and wow i brazil doing well thee days because of their non junk politics.

[zodium]

but my dog eats shit all the time it can't be that bad. for real though, trying to get him to stop

the dog shit is ideology.

https://i.imgur.com/MxqmPHQ.gif

[Kaveh]

We all know the feel.
Luckily, for the most part, Amerikkka hasn't really changed, it's still global empire and shit. It's not like your life depended on it say like the referendum in which Pinochet asked the Chileans if they wanted to continue having a dictator propped up by the US or become a democracy.




You walked right in the trap, and it's ok that you do this because when you fall in front of others, it makes you vulnerable.

I don't want to eat dog shit.
Nobody wants to.
Get covid.

I’m Pfizer x2 and would never let the Chinese poison me with their illness, NATO all day. Can’t wait to drink from the skulls of the godless

[Byue]

bruv you vaccinated.
I'm jealous and happy you made a good decision.

Zodium, my favourite philosopher OBVOUSLY is Diogenes.
Slavoj Zizek is so trash.

[zodium]

Zodium, my favourite philosopher OBVOUSLY is Diogenes.
Slavoj Zizek is so trash.

ah yes, diogenes and zizek, two philosophers who are, famously, worlds apart, and whose ideas are in violent conflict.

[Wrekt]

bruv you vaccinated.
I'm jealous and happy you made a good decision.

Zodium, my favourite philosopher OBVOUSLY is Diogenes.
Slavoj Zizek is so trash.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DankLeft/comments/jsn1u0/diogenes_was_based_and_breadpilled/

[bubur]

half the posts on 4 of our open threads are from that reddit

cool, I now feel like I'm being trolled and lied to

[Ennewi]

By the way dude, I get it. It's pretty clear you have 15 IQ points on our pal G13 (not that he is stupid, by any means). I'd guess something like this is going on:



I have a tremendous amount of sympathy for this because I tend to do the same thing. And you aren't wrong; you aren't a bad person at all. The problem is you are a PERSON. Even when you have the IQ points, it takes a huge amount of mental discipline to lock the emotional self away in a corner and prevent your mind from coming to the desired conclusion rather than the correct one, and I certainly don't always succeed myself.

So my challenge to you is: go read a few peer reviewed papers from both sides. Lock your emotional self away. See what conclusion you come to. Start with this one, the 6000 man Danish study (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817). There are, by the way, several flaws with it. I won't give away the surprise, though!

Conclusions are about as problematic as beliefs. Either a person knows something with a reasonable amount of certainty or they don't, that's it. I don't know, but I suspect and with these suspicions continue to inform myself. The OP doesn't know, but believes he does and refuses to separate knowledge, or lack thereof, from belief. My contention is that, if there are unknowns still than the best course of action is to take certain precautions and implement preventative measures, just in case. Nothing that could potentially lead to a myriad of other serious manmade problems, such as using an app to track infections more effectively. There is always the underlying question of individual rights (or privileges), which was the point of that Seinfeld episode.

Emotional attachment to an idea is not worthwhile, on an individual, communal, or global level. One way to gauge emotions in an online forum is to simply assess the content of each post. Which is least informative or more antagonistic? Which is laced with profanity? Which is written in all caps?

Time will tell who is and isn't correct, IQs be damned. As for not being wrong or a bad person, everyone has been a bit of both; when or whether we are able to recognize where we are wrong and bad, and to what extent, is what separates the individual from the habitual. But even so, people are flawed and so are their studies, as you pointed out. Thanks for the link all the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

Have a nice day.
Consider skateboarding.

George was not around for the deadliest of viruses, and he isn't around now to speak for himself. Views change with life experience, especially among those who question what is accepted truth, personal or otherwise. And anyway, Carlin was already practicing social distancing, farther than six feet, because of how increasingly annoying people were to him.

Also, if Carlin is the standard by which all others are measured, reconsider skateboarding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxMOeL580Yk

This forum has:


a resident nazi
one dude constantly praising bombing other countries.
one dude who speaks of jesus and the fall of morals in the 21st century.
always-Trumpets who will literally tell you that there is no photos of Trump and Epstein together like google doesn't exist.
Someone who is an immigrants but hate immigrants.
fascists elements.
compulsive liars.


and somehow I am singled out for the medication?

Is this because I remind you of your shitty history, or the fact you never really won a war by yourself unless it was against native women and children lacking your technology or against other Americans. Or when I remind you that everything you hate about this world is probably on the right wing of the spectrum and definitely rooted in capitalism?

What gives.

I take issue with being the resident Jesus freak. From here on out, only Buddha quotes.

They don't do anything. Face Diapers are pointless.

All Maskholes are Democrats

Democrats are all about control and telling other people what to do because they are miserable and hate themselves

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sonia_Zak
Dr Sonia Zakrzewski Flag of European Union

@Sonia_Zak
Replying to
@DrMatthewSweet
The joys of Medical Hypotheses. That journal is such a problem

The link that you opened this thread with and based your entire argument on has serious credibility issues, which haven't been addressed. Parroting the same lines over and over won't make what you believe and want others to believe any more true. That you assume I, and others, belong to a single party based on one global issue/personal decision is nothing new and one of the underlying problems with American politics.

[nostalgiaquest]

George was not around for the deadliest of viruses, and he isn't around now to speak for himself. Views change with life experience, especially among those who question what is accepted truth, personal or otherwise. And anyway, Carlin was already practicing social distancing, farther than six feet, because of how increasingly annoying people were to him.

Also, if Carlin is the standard by which all others are measured, reconsider skateboarding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxMOeL580Yk


Haha god damn, Ennewi bringing the heat all over this thread.

[Toxigen]

X29lF43mUlo

[Jibartik]

haha I love my generation.

we skipped school.

hated church.

blamed our parents.

and got all our knowledge from comedians.

[Ennewi]

X29lF43mUlo

Insert internet explorer meme here.

[Shodo]

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but here's my small effort to combat dangerous misinformation.

TLDR: the linked article in the original post is misleading, to say the least. You should think of it as the science journal equivalent of an opinion/editorial piece in a newspaper.

1) This is not a "study," it's what most journals would term a review article. The author did not do any original research, he's just giving his interpretation/opinion of a bunch of other studies. He's also not an expert on this topic, except for possibly the effects of wearing a mask while exercising - his degree is in clinical exercise physiology.

2) To be generous, I'll call his conclusions "a big stretch." To be more specific, the articles he cites as evidence for his claims fall under three categories: articles that have been debunked/outweighed by other results, textbooks/manuals with no specific reference to a particular section (i.e. useless), and articles that say the complete opposite of what this author says they do. For example, this questionable claim:

"Due to the difference in sizes between SARS-CoV-2 diameter and facemasks thread diameter (the virus is 1000 times smaller), SARS-CoV-2 can easily pass through any facemask"

cites https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337/ as evidence. The results of that study in fact indicate "combinations of various commonly available fabrics used in cloth masks can potentially provide significant protection against the transmission of aerosol particles," with surgical masks being more effective than common cloth masks for smaller particle sizes (although both still reduced transmission).

3) Any article from the Medical Hypotheses journal that this was published in should not be considered settled science. The journal's goal is to, in short, publish opinion articles that "foster the diversity and debate upon which the scientific process thrives," not to present research. You can read the full statement here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/journal/medical-hypotheses/about/aims-and-scope.

[HalflingSpergand]

DANGEROUS

[BlackBellamy]

Apologies if this has already been addressed, but here's my small effort to combat dangerous misinformation.

TLDR:

https://imgur.com/fLVLhWn.jpg

[Jibartik]

So just like the last 30 years, it's 30 years of this, and then another 30 years of even worse than this?

We are just postponing the inevitable.

Start world war 3 now, before we figure out how to make AI kill drones.

[BlackBellamy]

TLDR;

https://imgur.com/w953qmD.jpg

[BlackBellamy]

TLDR;

https://imgur.com/ydx6duv.jpg

[Cassawary]

DANGEROUS

Masks reduce viral load. Never knew we had so many bug chasers in this country.

[Toxigen]

Masks reduce viral load. Never knew we had so many bug chasers in this country.

I'll take your full viral load.

[Jibartik]

idk I heard masks are some shadow organizations scheme to make you interested in a forced vasectomie.

[Byue]

This forum be crazy sometimes.

Leftists go like look, it is raining and you'll see the right wingers under their umbrellas being angry and shouting that it is in fact, sunny outside.

Wild af.

[starkind]

Masks reduce viral load. Never knew we had so many bug chasers in this country.

I'll take your full viral load.

https://i.imgur.com/r0kK2.gif

[Horza]

I'll take your full viral load.

This is what conservatives think humor is supposed to be like. :(

[Jibartik]

They also think its this:

"haha wet ass pusy? who's ever heard of anything like that!"

[Cassawary]

They also think its this:

"haha wet ass pusy? who's ever heard of anything like that!"

Enough about ben shapiro and his wife

[Jibartik]

Cant give a viral load if you have a vasectomy.

[BlackBellamy]

https://i.imgur.com/r0kK2.gif

If your helicopter isn't taking you past your belly button it's time to try something new.

[Jibartik]

If your helicopter isn't taking you past your belly button it's time to try something new.

Now that women rule the world men body shame each other.

[Byue]

Now that women rule the world men body shame each other.

women rule the world?

[Ennewi]

women rule the world?

“I think women rule the world and that no man has ever done anything that a woman either hasn't allowed him to do or encouraged him to do.”

[Ennewi]

If your helicopter isn't taking you past your belly button it's time to try something new.

Is-it-true-that-Alfred-hitchcock-did-not-have-a-belly-button (https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Alfred-hitchcock-did-not-have-a-belly-button)

[G13]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Sonia_Zak
Dr Sonia Zakrzewski Flag of European Union

The link that you opened this thread with and based your entire argument on has serious credibility issues, which haven't been addressed. Parroting the same lines over and over won't make what you believe and want others to believe any more true. That you assume I, and others, belong to a single party based on one global issue/personal decision is nothing new and one of the underlying problems with American politics.

Masks are a conformity test. Nothing more.

I expected a better response. Maybe you aren't as intelligent as Raev suggests

Clearly there is a partisan divide with masks and their effectiveness at stopping the spread of Covid. This is textbook Hegelian Dialectic. Governments have been using the pandemic as a massive power grab and they don't plan on giving that power back (Look at Oregon)

Instead of providing a large random clinical trial that proves masks stop the spread of Covid or even Influenza, you created a strawmen attacking the credibility of the original link. That solves the problem of you actually having to provide any evidence masks do something

You also severely handicapped your own credibility by tossing out lazy links from Politifact, Rolling Stone, Wikipedia and even invoking The Koch brothers like they are akin to Hitler or something. It's absurd. If anyone has a credibility problem it's you.

If I'm wrong, provide the evidence masks work. Currently, there is no consensus that they really do anything, especially the vast majority of masks people are wearing (including home made masks)

As I stated before, medicine (like everything else lefties get their dirty hands on) has become political, so any source that contradicts the face diaper/lock down narrative becomes CNN vs Fox News. That's really all your doing. Disguising a political argument as a medical argument.

[Horza]

Masks are a conformity test. Nothing more.

I expected a better response. Maybe you aren't as intelligent as Raev suggests

Clearly there is a partisan divide with masks and their effectiveness at stopping the spread of Covid. This is textbook Hegelian Dialectic. Governments have been using the pandemic as a massive power grab and they don't plan on giving that power back (Look at Oregon)

Instead of providing a large random clinical trial that proves masks stop the spread of Covid or even Influenza, you created a strawmen attacking the credibility of the original link. That solves the problem of you actually having to provide any evidence masks do something

You also severely handicapped your own credibility by tossing out lazy links from Politifact, Rolling Stone, Wikipedia and even invoking The Koch brothers like they are akin to Hitler or something. It's absurd. If anyone has a credibility problem it's you.

If I'm wrong, provide the evidence masks work. Currently, there is no consensus that they really do anything, especially the vast majority of masks people are wearing (including home made masks)

As I stated before, medicine (like everything else lefties get their dirty hands on) has become political, so any source that contradicts the face diaper/lock down narrative becomes CNN vs Fox News. That's really all your doing. Disguising a political argument as a medical argument.

Are you seriously just now realizing there is a partisan divide in terms of Republicans' preference for party-vetted ideologues over internationally recognized experts with decades of experience like Fauci?

I guess it's not particularly surprising considering your pathetic attempts to defend the Koch brothers and Fox News in the same post.

[Cassawary]

Is-it-true-that-Alfred-hitchcock-did-not-have-a-belly-button (https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Alfred-hitchcock-did-not-have-a-belly-button)

https://i.imgur.com/iY8KSA3.jpg

[Gravydoo II]

Lol when you dont wear a mask then cry about how nobody wants to deal with your stupid ass. You cant buy or sell without the mark of the beast, remember?

Weird how they got rid of the vaccine passport for the average man. If you want to go hang with the republican donors, go to a republican event, you have to have the passport and prove you've had the vaccine. That should tell you everything. Its no consequence to them if you die, fuck you. If their donors die, thats a problem. You're just a little vote. The more people that die the better it is for republicans anyways. Less people, less votes.

Now why would they do that if its evil communist terrorism and against jesus and all that??

Google it.
https://www.newsweek.com/gop-florida-fundraiser-requires-negative-covid-test-gov-ron-desantis-bans-vaccine-passports-1581489

Thats just the top one of 100,000 pages saying it. Must be qanon and al Qaeda or something tricking everyone.

[Ennewi]

Masks are a conformity test. Nothing more.

I expected a better response. Maybe you aren't as intelligent as Raev suggests

Clearly there is a partisan divide with masks and their effectiveness at stopping the spread of Covid. This is textbook Hegelian Dialectic. Governments have been using the pandemic as a massive power grab and they don't plan on giving that power back (Look at Oregon)

Instead of providing a large random clinical trial that proves masks stop the spread of Covid or even Influenza, you created a strawmen attacking the credibility of the original link. That solves the problem of you actually having to provide any evidence masks do something

You also severely handicapped your own credibility by tossing out lazy links from Politifact, Rolling Stone, Wikipedia and even invoking The Koch brothers like they are akin to Hitler or something. It's absurd. If anyone has a credibility problem it's you.

If I'm wrong, provide the evidence masks work. Currently, there is no consensus that they really do anything, especially the vast majority of masks people are wearing (including home made masks)

As I stated before, medicine (like everything else lefties get their dirty hands on) has become political, so any source that contradicts the face diaper/lock down narrative becomes CNN vs Fox News. That's really all your doing. Disguising a political argument as a medical argument.

So, it's reasonable to assume, you didn't read the Rolling Stone article. In it are details revolving around the father of the Koch brothers and how he conducted business with Stalin (albeit with some reluctance later), who is akin to Hitler or something. This isn't absurd. If anyone has a credibility problem, it's the Koch brothers. In the other link, Charles Koch even admitted "boy, did we really screw up" which was the larger point being made.

Please name sources that you would consider to be credible. Also, unless I missed a post somewhere, you still have yet to name any of those scientists you alluded to earlier; doing so would help your credibility.

If medicine has become political, as you say, than all governments with conflicting ideologies would actually be collaborating in secret against their citizens, using the need for masks and vaccines as opportunity to control. If that is what you're arguing than it begs the question: Is the earth flat? Or better yet, do vaccines cause autism?

As I stated before, medicine (like everything else lefties get their dirty hands on) has become political, so any source that contradicts the face diaper/lock down narrative becomes CNN vs Fox News. That's really all your doing. Disguising a political argument as a medical argument.

Everything is political or at least can be construed as being politically motivated. Basically I could make a similar argument and say that all you're really doing is pushing postmodernist views while claiming to be scientific, with no credible evidence to back that claim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjQA0e0UYzI

I already provided a link earlier which demonstrated the effectiveness of mask use long before the topic became so contentious, though I have not had the opportunity to doublecheck all of the evidence associated with it. That's still better than what you've offered which leads into one final point.

Using big words won't win the argument, not with me at least. Hegelian Dialectic? We aren't reenacting the scene from Good Will Hunting. This isn't a bar and there aren't any girls around to try and impress.

[Gravydoo II]

"The left makes everything political" someone roll that beautiful bean footage of republicans making literally any and everything political. Including nascar, people silently kneeling, ellen, coffee makers, burning your shoes you already paid for... uhh what else. Assaulting the capitol then denying it and making your position on what your eyes saw and what republicans are saying is now political.

Political correctness means "this is what is right according to my party" not to reality. The right wing is suffering from soviet style political correctness. If you say something like "man made climate change is real and sea levels are rising" you cannot be a republican. Its not politically correct, according to their party.

Its so sad, they dont even know it. They think it means "this is what is socially acceptable" because they make everything political. Dr suess is now political. Masks are political. Believing in the study of reality, science, is now political cause of you idiots. Vaccines are political. Abortions are political. Shit that has nothing to do with you, at all. You made it political, even though no government money is spent on it.

[-TK-]

Believing in the study of reality, science, is now political cause of you idiots. Vaccines are political. Abortions are political. Shit that has nothing to do with you, at all. You made it political, even though no government money is spent on it.

In what altered reality are you living that no government money funded any of this type of stuff? Literally all of it has government money involved. The government spent $2.5 billion (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/24/fact-check-donations-research-grants-helped-fund-moderna-vaccine/6398486002/) alone to help develop and buy the Moderna vaccine.

[Byue]

oh shit so there ARE moderations on these forums.
Since these trolls collect the post count, we got something to work with, now.

Also, masks are apolitical.
Science says they help.

You know, stop putting all of your faith in science to find technological fix to solve climate change and everything if you can't even handle simple scientific facts like wear a mask.

In what altered reality are you living that no government money funded any of this type of stuff? Literally all of it has government money involved. The government spent $2.5 billion (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/24/fact-check-donations-research-grants-helped-fund-moderna-vaccine/6398486002/) alone to help develop and buy the Moderna vaccine.

Dude, you missed the point but just to eb clear, 2.5 billion is for both helping to develop the vaccine and buy doses.
"All in all, U.S. agencies committed about $2.5 billion to help develop Moderna’s vaccine and buy doses, according to the New York Times. "

"Moderna and NIAID had already been working on mRNA vaccines, with an agreement in place, when the coronavirus came along.

"The agreement consisted of some level of funding from Moderna to the NIH, along with a roadmap for NIAID and Moderna investigators to collaborate on basic research into mRNA vaccines and eventually development of such a vaccine," the Harvard article states. "Such agreements are not unusual for government agencies in general or the NIH in particular."

[HalflingSpergand]

Help me daddy, heeeelllp me

[Horza]

Considering I've been banned for like a third of this account's existence, there are definitely moderators on these forums.

[Byue]

Considering I've been banned for like a third of this account's existence, there are definitely moderators on these forums.

And I'm glad I now know how to report these!

[starkind]

https://i.imgur.com/iY8KSA3.jpg

that was a good film or w/e i think i remember seeing something like this and it was actually a pretty fun watch

[BlackBellamy]

That boy needs a better t-shirt:


https://imgur.com/L0GUjZ0.jpg

[-TK-]

Dude, you missed the point but...

No, I did not miss the point. The poster I responded to literally said 'You made it political, even though no government money is spent on it' after referencing the vaccine. I responded to show an easily 'researched' instance of where taxpayer dollars were spent on something he said they were not. Don't try to move the goalpost because your buddy made an ignorant claim. You're obviously more informed than he is, but he's got to ride his own rap of ignorance. The vaccine was the easiest one to discredit so I picked it for the sake of timeliness.

As far as those making it political; the article states, 'The Department of Health and Human Services and Moderna both told Axios the two parties agree to what is in news releases when it comes to federal government funding and other support provided to advance the vaccine.' This shows that the government has influence over the information released about the vaccine because they tossed in the money. This, in turn, opens up something that would otherwise be more dictated by scientific norms to government influence. It also goes on to say.. 'To say that the vaccine is fully funded by the federal government discounts a small but very real private donation to Vanderbilt University Medical Center.' This leads the reader to believe that while, yes, the money was to develop and buy, the majority financial stakeholder in the effort to create the vaccine is the US government. Money begets influence, no? So it's reasonable to be wary of political slant behind news and press releases around the vaccine. It's not like we can't find previous examples of governments using financial influence for partisan or illicit gains through private corporations or universities. The scale of the money spent would definitely result in additional government oversight of the project considering the possible ramifications of the results, and I know that from experience because the larger the government project I get, the more bureaucrats I have to deal with to get it done and get paid.

I'm not arguing for or against the vaccine, and the dollar amount that went into research vs. buying doses doesn't really matter. I'm acknowledging the US taxpayer's stake in the development, and that there is some justification for healthy skepticism of what we're told about it.

[Raev]

My contention is that, if there are unknowns still than the best course of action is to take certain precautions and implement preventative measures, just in case.

Apologies if this has already been addressed ... To be generous, I'll call his conclusions "a big stretch."

That is why I find the OP's paper so interesting. He is saying that mask usage likely has substantial long-term negative consequences including immune weakness due to chronically low blood oxygen. Do either of you have any opinion on this part of the paper? Because if the author is correct, the efficacy of masks versus covid virions is simply irrelevant.


I already provided a link earlier which demonstrated the effectiveness of mask use long before the topic became so contentious, though I have not had the opportunity to doublecheck all of the evidence associated with it.

Just a reminder that your article compared masks to N95s, not masks vs none. It's hard to see this as relevant when virtually no one is wearing an N95 mask.

Also, masks are apolitical. Science says they help.

Science states that masks do not work with a reasonable level of confidence. You can read the Danish study (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817) or a review by the British government here (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x). TLDR: 8 randomized trials, 6 negative, 1 irrelevant (the one Ennewi found), and 1 that did find an effect in combination with hand sanitizer. The sad reality is that peer review and the scientific method are no match for billions of dollars in funding, and thus we have to read garbage like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337/:

Although the filtration efficiencies for various fabrics when a single layer was used ranged from 5 to 80% and 5 to 95% for particle sizes of <300 nm and >300 nm, respectively ...... Overall, we find that combinations of various commonly available fabrics used in cloth masks can potentially provide significant protection against the transmission of aerosol particles.

The conclusion is obviously completely unwarranted by the actual results.

[Raev]

I'm not arguing for or against the vaccine, and the dollar amount that went into research vs. buying doses doesn't really matter. I'm acknowledging the US taxpayer's stake in the development, and that there is some justification for healthy skepticism of what we're told about it.

Great post. Modern scientism has gotten as bad as Medieval Catholicism. Real science works by well designed experiments and good statistics, not using repeatedly stating word SCIENCE, wearing lab coats, or even the process of peer review.

[Horza]

I appreciate your attempt to sound intelligent but anyone who thinks wearing a mask causes low blood oxygen and chronic immune weakness is a gullible idiot.

[FatherSioux]

I appreciate your attempt to sound intelligent but anyone who thinks wearing a mask causes low blood oxygen and chronic immune weakness is a gullible idiot.

AKA: I refuse to believe anything counter to what I originally thought. Actually a mentality that is quite prevalent in the “science” community.

[Horza]

You can't argue masks are too porous to reduce the spread of Covid but also oxygen-depriving death traps and expect people to take you seriously.

[HalflingSpergand]

We want it so bad were going to prove it with science!
Science is broken, it didn't even exist

[Raev]

You can't argue masks are too porous to reduce the spread of Covid but also oxygen-depriving death traps and expect people to take you seriously.

Why is this inconsistent at all? Masks reduce the quantity of air you can move around your face but, because they are porous relative to aerosol droplets, barely change the quality.

Fortunately, SCIENCE (https://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/neuro/v19n2/3.pdf) is here to answer these questions. Surgeons wearing masks over 4 hours saw their blood oxygenation drop from 97% to 96% and their pulse rates rise 5 bpm. Obviously no one is going to drop dead just because they put a mask on, but it's entirely reasonable to think this will cause chronic stress.

[Jibartik]

buy an n95 mask you gimps

[Gravydoo II]

In what altered reality are you living that no government money funded any of this type of stuff? Literally all of it has government money involved. The government spent $2.5 billion (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/11/24/fact-check-donations-research-grants-helped-fund-moderna-vaccine/6398486002/) alone to help develop and buy the Moderna vaccine.

Talking about the NFL, nascar, abortion, all of it. Has nothing to do with government then republicans try to or use government to punish them. I wasnt talking about the vaccine. I was talking about all the things republicans attack and cancel with government or cry about in government, even though not 1 cent of tax payer money is spent on it. Not one fucking cent. Abortion especially. Has nothing to do with government at all yet its all you idiots vote for even though its ILLEGAL to spend tax payer money on it.

I also meant vaccines, like the ones you get when you're a kid if your parents are not retarded. Those ones. Not moderna and shit. Stop looking for shit to cry about. I wasnt even talking about that and you know it.

[Byue]

You can't argue masks are too porous to reduce the spread of Covid but also oxygen-depriving death traps and expect people to take you seriously.

this is pretty much on point.

[HalflingSpergand]

Its designed to be argued both ways

[G13]

So, it's reasonable to assume, you didn't read the Rolling Stone article. In it are details revolving around the father of the Koch brothers and how he conducted business with Stalin (albeit with some reluctance later), who is akin to Hitler or something. This isn't absurd. If anyone has a credibility problem, it's the Koch brothers. In the other link, Charles Koch even admitted "boy, did we really screw up" which was the larger point being made.

I don't care about The Koch Brothers

They are irrelevant as is Rolling Stone

Please name sources that you would consider to be credible. Also, unless I missed a post somewhere, you still have yet to name any of those scientists you alluded to earlier; doing so would help your credibility.

If medicine has become political, as you say, than all governments with conflicting ideologies would actually be collaborating in secret against their citizens, using the need for masks and vaccines as opportunity to control. If that is what you're arguing than it begs the question: Is the earth flat? Or better yet, do vaccines cause autism?

I'm not claiming all medicine has become political. There is no political gain to politicize something like treating Dementia. That wouldn't require a nation wide lock down with draconian government policies and mask mandates. Nobody can see a virus, so it's easy to manipulate public fear through propaganda and convince people to throw away their civil rights in the interest of "safety"

You can literally replace Covid with "Global Warming" and force the same draconian government policy on everyone. The crisis empowers governments and the elite while weakening individual rights. Corrupt bureaucrats have been given a gift nicely wrapped to skirt around constitutional norms and it needs to stop

And stop trying to derail the conversation with idiotic questions - stick to the topic. It only shows the weakness of your own position.


Everything is political or at least can be construed as being politically motivated. Basically I could make a similar argument and say that all you're really doing is pushing postmodernist views while claiming to be scientific, with no credible evidence to back that claim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjQA0e0UYzI

I already provided a link earlier which demonstrated the effectiveness of mask use long before the topic became so contentious, though I have not had the opportunity to double check all of the evidence associated with it. That's still better than what you've offered which leads into one final point.

Everything The Left touches becomes political. Sports, Medicine, Our Judicial System (Hi Maxine Waters) shopping at Walmart, ect. ect. ect.

The Left IS political in everything it does because it cannot exist without being a revolutionary political movement

Masks don't do anything. There is a long history of large random clinical trials that all show 99.999999999% of the masks people are wearing are totally useless to stop the spread of influenza infections. There is not a large body of research data in relation to random clinical trials that prove masks stop the spread of Covid. There are however, studies that show they don't which are being censored or people on the left are trying to discredit them for obvious reasons

Using big words won't win the argument, not with me at least. Hegelian Dialectic? We aren't reenacting the scene from Good Will Hunting. This isn't a bar and there aren't any girls around to try and impress.

Just a stupid response

Raev was wrong about you

[Byue]

i would like to be a right winger so I could be more like my D&D DM, always right even when he is wrong.


Sounds fun.

[Horza]

This guy thinks Biden is a revolutionary lol

[BallzDeep]

Every medical licensing board in every state disagrees with you.

Next time you get sick or need surgery, don't go to a doctor. They're all dumb and have fallen for the conspiracy for years.

Most doctors are idiots. Medical misdiagnosis is the third leading cause of death in the US. That doesn't include things that are not subject to death. This is also the case in Canada and even worse of medical wait times.

[Cassawary]

This guy thinks Biden is a revolutionary lol

Well he promised to be the most pro-Union president in history.

have you ever known a Union to be revolutionary? :eek:

[zodium]

i think your performance art "Everything The Left Touches" about a man experiencing his loss of privilege from declining material conditions in the empire as oppression is pretty cool, g13.

[Tethler]

Jesus christ, I'm so tired of these idiot threads and the idiots that keep posting them.

It. Does. Not. Matter. That. The. Virus. Is. Smaller. Than. The. Mask.

The virus doesn't fly through the air independently, you fucking mongoloid. It travels in small water droplets that are caught by the mask at a high rate. (Yes, it doesn't catch them all). I'm pretty sure I can get a local chiropractor to sign off of something if that helps, since you like to lean on arguments from people who aren't virologists.

Dipshits like you are the reason that the virus is still going strong.

In case you were wondering, i peppered in a good amount of Ad Hominem because: fuck you

[Ennewi]

I don't care about The Koch Brothers

They are irrelevant as is Rolling Stone



I'm not claiming all medicine has become political. There is no political gain to politicize something like treating Dementia. That wouldn't require a nation wide lock down with draconian government policies and mask mandates. Nobody can see a virus, so it's easy to manipulate public fear through propaganda and convince people to throw away their civil rights in the interest of "safety"

You can literally replace Covid with "Global Warming" and force the same draconian government policy on everyone. The crisis empowers governments and the elite while weakening individual rights. Corrupt bureaucrats have been given a gift nicely wrapped to skirt around constitutional norms and it needs to stop

And stop trying to derail the conversation with idiotic questions - stick to the topic. It only shows the weakness of your own position.




Everything The Left touches becomes political. Sports, Medicine, Our Judicial System (Hi Maxine Waters) shopping at Walmart, ect. ect. ect.

The Left IS political in everything it does because it cannot exist without being a revolutionary political movement

Masks don't do anything. There is a long history of large random clinical trials that all show 99.999999999% of the masks people are wearing are totally useless to stop the spread of influenza infections. There is not a large body of research data in relation to random clinical trials that prove masks stop the spread of Covid. There are however, studies that show they don't which are being censored or people on the left are trying to discredit them for obvious reasons



Just a stupid response

Raev was wrong about you

IIRC Raev made the error of equating weather with climate change in a thread a few years back and everyone made sure he never forgot it, myself included. I cannot for the life of me find that thread now, and it may have been another regular on the forums but that's doubtful as Raev has consistently denied that climate change is occurring.

Regardless, you still have not provided names for those scientists mentioned earlier. Also, there are no links for all of the trials you just referred to, which would allow everyone to verify that what you're saying is factual.

If the one surviving Koch brother is irrelevant, with all of his money and influence in Witchita, than you are even less relevant. By all accounts, the dead brother is also more relevant in comparison, unless you somehow happen to have more funds to work with than his estate, in which case you ought to be donating it to p99 so that everyone can experience custom content. If money is irrelevant in a capitalistic society than what is relevant? The Koch brothers are money. They essentially own a college and half of Wichita. They funded a senator's campaign, who then became governor and nearly bankrupted the state of Kansas. Even those who consider their views to be backwards would not claim that they are irrelevant. But you have, so either it is a case of trolling or willful ignorance.

To quote myself quoting smarter people from two years ago...


09-05-2019, 11:35 PM
"Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous."
Dietrich Bonhoeffer

"We must make a clear distinction between belief and faith, because, in general practice, belief has come to mean a state of mind which is almost opposite of faith. Belief, as I use the word here, is the insistence that the truth is what one would "lief" or wish it to be. The believer will open his mind to the truth on the condition that it fits in with his preconceived ideas and wishes. Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be." ... "In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not self-deception." Alan Watts

[Ennewi]

Just a reminder that your article compared masks to N95s, not masks vs none. It's hard to see this as relevant when virtually no one is wearing an N95 mask.

Likely because of hospital policy or because no patient would consent to their doctor forgoing the use of any mask. That one was shown to be more effective than the other implies that either would have been favorable over none at all. That isn't irrelevant.

Science clearly states that masks do not work. You can read the Danish study (https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-6817) or a review by the British government here (https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x). TLDR: 8 randomized trials, 6 negative, 1 irrelevant (the one Ennewi found), and 1 that did find an effect in combination with hand sanitizer. The sad reality is that peer review and the scientific method are no match for billions of dollars in funding, and thus we have to read garbage like https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32329337/:

The conclusion is obviously completely unwarranted by the actual results.

If we can we agree not to use the word science as though we were quoting it directly, that would be a good start. At best, one might be referring to the scientific community or consensus among experts, which ought to be mentioned by name instead.

I am still reading through the Denmark link, but here's another link to serve as a counterargument which I am also still reading through...

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

There are no studies that have directly measured the filtration of smaller or lateral particles in this setting, although, using Schlieren imaging, it has been shown that all kinds of masks greatly limit the spread of the emission cloud (79), consistent with a fluid dynamic simulation that estimated this filtration level at 90% (80). Another study used a manikin and visible smoke to simulate coughing, and found that a stitched cloth mask was the most effective of the tested designs at source control, reducing the jet distance in all directions from 8 feet (with no mask) to 2.5 inches (81).

One possible benefit of masks for source control is that they can reduce surface transmission, by avoiding droplets settling on surfaces that may be touched by a susceptible person. However, contact through surfaces is not believed to be the main way SARS-CoV-2 spreads (82), and the risk of transmission through surfaces may be small (83).

In summary, there is laboratory-based evidence that household masks have filtration capacity in the relevant particle size range, as well as efficacy in blocking aerosols and droplets from the wearer (67). That is, these masks help people keep their emissions to themselves. A consideration is that face masks with valves do not capture respiratory particles as efficiently, bypassing the filtration mechanism, and therefore offer less source control (84).

Conclusion
Our review of the literature offers evidence in favor of widespread mask use as source control to reduce community transmission: Nonmedical masks use materials that obstruct particles of the necessary size; people are most infectious in the initial period postinfection, where it is common to have few or no symptoms (45, 46, 141); nonmedical masks have been effective in reducing transmission of respiratory viruses; and places and time periods where mask usage is required or widespread have shown substantially lower community transmission.

Footnotes
↵1To whom correspondence may be addressed. Email: jphoward@usfca.edu.
Author contributions: J.H., Z.L., H.-M.v.d.W., L.-H.T., V.T., R.S., and F.Q. designed research; J.H., A.H., Z.L., Z.T., H.-M.v.d.W., L.-H.T., V.T., R.S., and F.Q. performed research; J.H., A.H., Z.L., L.-H.T., V.T., F.Q., and C.M.R. analyzed data; and J.H., A.H., Z.L., Z.T., V.Z., H.-M.v.d.W., A.v.D., A.P., L.F., L.-H.T., V.T., G.L.W., C.E.B., R.S., F.Q., D.H., L.F.C., C.M.R., and A.W.R. wrote the paper.

The authors declare no competing interest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proceedings_of_the_National_Academy_of_Sciences_of _the_United_States_of_America

Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America (often abbreviated PNAS or PNAS USA) is a peer-reviewed multidisciplinary scientific journal. It is the official journal of the National Academy of Sciences, published since 1915, and publishes original research, scientific reviews, commentaries, and letters. According to Journal Citation Reports, the journal has a 2019 impact factor of 9.412.[1] PNAS is the second most cited scientific journal, with more than 1.9 million cumulative citations from 2008 to 2018.[2] In the mass media, PNAS has been described variously as "prestigious",[3][4] "sedate",[5] "renowned",[6] and "high impact".[7]
PNAS is a delayed open access journal, with an embargo period of 6 months that can be bypassed for an author fee (hybrid open access). Since September 2017, open access articles are published under a Creative Commons license. Since January 2019, PNAS is online-only, although print issues are available on-demand.


Editors
The following people have been editors-in-chief of the journal:

1914–1918: Arthur A. Noyes
1918–1940: Raymond Pearl
1940–1949: Robert A. Millikan
1950–1955: Linus Pauling
1955–1960: Wendell M. Stanley
1960–1968: Saunders Mac Lane
1968–1972: John T. Edsall
1972–1980: Robert Louis Sinsheimer[23]
1980–1984: Daniel E. Koshland, Jr.
1985–1988: Maxine Singer
1988–1991: Igor B. Dawid
1991–1995: Lawrence Bogorad
1995–2006: Nicholas R. Cozzarelli
2006–2011: Randy Schekman
2011–2017: Inder Verma[24]
2018–2019: Natasha Raikhel
2019–present: May Berenbaum
The first managing editor of the journal was mathematician Edwin Bidwell Wilson.

[nostalgiaquest]

Jesus christ, I'm so tired of these idiot threads and the idiots that keep posting them.

It. Does. Not. Matter. That. The. Virus. Is. Smaller. Than. The. Mask.

The virus doesn't fly through the air independently, you fucking mongoloid. It travels in small water droplets that are caught by the mask at a high rate. (Yes, it doesn't catch them all). I'm pretty sure I can get a local chiropractor to sign off of something if that helps, since you like to lean on arguments from people who aren't virologists.

Dipshits like you are the reason that the virus is still going strong.

In case you were wondering, i peppered in a good amount of Ad Hominem because: fuck you

BuT tHeNs hOwS cOmE Is CaN sMeLlS mY fArTs ThRoUgHs mY pAnTs!?

[HalflingSpergand]

I've noticed obese people wear masks

[Raev]

IIRC Raev made the error of equating weather with climate change in a thread a few years back and everyone made sure he never forgot it, myself included.

Probably you mean this (https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2329774#post2329774). I'm not particularly proud of that little zinger at the end in hindsight, but I don't think the actual post is wrong. In any case, I hope we can confine our discussions to masks today!

That one was shown to be more effective than the other implies that either would have been favorable over none at all.

This is clearly wrong: in some cases there is a minimum requirement for any action to be beneficial. For example, just because a cloth bag can hold a bowling ball but a plastic bag breaks does not mean that using the plastic bag is better than carrying the bowling ball with your bare hands.

I am still reading through the Denmark link

Cool; I hope you enjoy it! And I hope I am not being too greedy when I ask you to consider reading the link I posted earlier about the doctors in surgery. It's short. However, I thought I'd take a look at https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118 and quite frankly . . . this is a classic example of politicized science. Let's take a look at some of the quotes:

Therefore, we should not be surprised to find that there is no RCT for the impact of masks on community transmission of any respiratory infection in a pandemic.

I have to confess this sentence made my blood boil. This, right here, is political science. 'Hey, all previous work on masks not working on viral transmission? That doesn't matter! We are in a pandemic. Why are we in a pandemic? We say so!' and then, 'Oh by the way, without an RCT we cannot rule out millions of potential causes that might bias our results. No problem! We're in a pandemic! It's SCIENCE because we say it is!' If there is one thing I hope we can agree on it is that this paper is written by twits.

It found that “in an adjusted analysis of compliant subjects, masks as a group had protective efficacy in excess of 80% against clinical influenza-like illness.” However, the authors noted that they “found compliance to be low, but compliance is affected by perception of risk. In a pandemic, we would expect compliance to improve.” In compliant users, masks were highly effective at reducing transmission.

Again, this is simply dishonest because they are attempting to make it seem that compliance causes protection, when most likely the causality runs in the OTHER direction: people stopped using the masks because they got sick!

That review concluded that “there was insufficient evidence to provide a recommendation on the use of facial barriers without other measures.”

Just throwing this out there; 1/3 of the review papers they quote disagrees with them. No effort is made to refute this opinion.

Overall, direct evidence of the efficacy of mask use is supportive, but inconclusive. Since there are no RCTs, only one observational trial, and unclear evidence from other respiratory illnesses, we will need to look at a wider body of evidence.

So even the authors admit that their cherry picked studies are not conclusive.

Consider, for instance, the impact of source control: Its effect occurs to other individuals in the population, not the individual who implements the intervention by wearing a mask.

This, by the way, is the main potential flaw in the Danish study. This past year has been the first time that government succeeded in convincing entire communities to wear masks.

We need to consider first principles—transmission properties of the disease, controlled biophysical characterizations—alongside observational data, partially informative RCTs (primarily with respect to PPE), natural experiments (26), and policy implementation considerations—a discursive synthesis of interdisciplinary lines of evidence which are disparate by necessity

Translation: we are about to crank the bullshit level up to 11, but hey, we're SCIENCE. I can only repeat that all of these after the fact observational studies are garbage. There are a million different reasons why COVID deaths can be lower in a particular nation. The biggest one, by the way, is simply fraud. Unless you seriously believe the Chinese numbers . . .

We recommend that public officials and governments strongly encourage the use of widespread face masks in public, including the use of appropriate regulation.

And boom, the money shot. Totally unwarranted by the actual body of the paper, but everyone involved is now sure to get their next $ million grant form NIH.

I hate writing these choppy usenix style point by point refutation posts. Anyway, I hope you can see why I claim that this is an opinion piece, not science.

[Toxigen]

Gee who would have guessed when the Feds opened the free money spigot we'd have fraudulent numbers?

If you believe "the numbers", wear a mask, and/or got the vaccine....you're beyond helping.

[Raev]

It travels in small water droplets that are caught by the mask at a high rate. (Yes, it doesn't catch them all).

Isn't the whole danger of a viral infection that even one COVID virion can enter your cells and cause a chain reaction? If so, what is the benefit of a device that only catches some of the particles?

In case you were wondering, i peppered in a good amount of Ad Hominem because: fuck you

I stopped insulting people online when I realized it only made me even more angry (occasionally I relapse; old habits die hard). Now I just kind of watch sadly as we all doublethink ourselves into Mad Max.

[Jimjam]

Isn't the whole danger of a viral infection that even one COVID virion can enter your cells and cause a chain reaction? If so, what is the benefit of a device that only catches some of the particles?


Yes, but also no.

Viral load, how much of it you are exposed to, will affect the chance of becoming infected.

Think of it as a bunch of level 9 SKs casting disease cloud on a dragon. Unlikely that a single one will land the spell, but if you have enough of them spam casting you can close enough guarantee one cast would eventually get through.

[Fammaden]

So you're saying that masks are resist gear?

[HalflingSpergand]

No they are cloth veils with -5 cha, some people think there is a hidden +5 sv disease stat but i dont

[Raev]

Think of it as a bunch of level 9 SKs casting disease cloud on a dragon. Unlikely that a single one will land the spell, but if you have enough of them spam casting you can close enough guarantee one cast would eventually get through.

Sir, please do not activate my autism with incorrect EverQuest analogies. We both know that no number of L9 SKs can land disease cloud on a dragon due to level caps!

But seriously, I don't think this argument really makes sense. Let's try and walk through this a bit. Every time I go to the grocery store I breathe in air that comes from the lungs of literally hundreds of other people. Every day I breathe in something like a million microorganisms. Let's say that everyone agrees to wear masks (N95s are a different story) and as a result 95% of particles are filtered out. I'm still breathing in 50,000 microorganisms every day. Multiply by 400+ days since the hysteria began and we are still at 20 million microorganisms. Why are we not all sick constantly? Is everyone over the past 100 years idiots for not wearing masks 24/7?

The only logical conclusion to me is that the probabilistic model is wrong. In other words, if you are vulnerable to disease by virtue of being old, obese, or generally unhealthy then you will eventually find a flavor of microorganism that decomposes you. On the other hand, if you are young, fit, and healthy then only possible danger of covid is drowning in a tub of sputum.

If I could live my life over again, I would devote it to proving that germs seek their natural habitat-diseased tissue-rather than being the cause of dead tissue. In other words, mosquitoes seek the stagnant water, but do not cause the pool to become stagnant.

No they are cloth veils with -5 cha, some people think there is a hidden +5 sv disease stat but i dont

http://wiki.project1999.com/Maggot_Ridden_Flesh seems quite accurate with both negative cha and negative disease! Or there is http://wiki.project1999.com/Forsaken_Pariah_Mask . . .

[Toxigen]

No they are cloth veils with -5 cha, some people think there is a hidden +5 sv disease stat but i dont

-5 cha
-25 int
-100 sta

Porous Veil of the Unthinking

[Gravydoo II]

imagine believing since virus is small, holes are big, virus go through. Like... oh my god. Its like when a retarded baby puts the square peg in the round hole and it works but its obviously wrong...

[bomaroast]

Dipshits like you are the reason that the virus is still going strong.


Incorrect. The virus is still going strong because it's a virus and that's what they do. No human is to blame.

[Jibartik]

Imagine being so out of shape that you cant breathe with a mask on but think that covid isnt a threat to you specifically lol

[Toxigen]

Imagine being so out of shape that you cant breathe with a mask on but think that covid isnt a threat to you specifically lol

Guy, I run a sub 1:50 half marathon. I hate having a mask on my face. Also already had covid.

[G13]

IIRC Raev made the error of equating weather with climate change in a thread a few years back and everyone made sure he never forgot it, myself included. I cannot for the life of me find that thread now, and it may have been another regular on the forums but that's doubtful as Raev has consistently denied that climate change is occurring.

Regardless, you still have not provided names for those scientists mentioned earlier. Also, there are no links for all of the trials you just referred to, which would allow everyone to verify that what you're saying is factual.

If the one surviving Koch brother is irrelevant, with all of his money and influence in Witchita, than you are even less relevant. By all accounts, the dead brother is also more relevant in comparison, unless you somehow happen to have more funds to work with than his estate, in which case you ought to be donating it to p99 so that everyone can experience custom content. If money is irrelevant in a capitalistic society than what is relevant? The Koch brothers are money. They essentially own a college and half of Wichita. They funded a senator's campaign, who then became governor and nearly bankrupted the state of Kansas. Even those who consider their views to be backwards would not claim that they are irrelevant. But you have, so either it is a case of trolling or willful ignorance.

To quote myself quoting smarter people from two years ago...

Random Clinical Trial showing that masks don't do anything to prevent the spread of the common cold

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19216002/

Randomized Clinical Trial (N95 vs Medical Mask) Influenza

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

Randomized Clinical Trial (N95 vs Surgical) Influenza

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2749214

Face Mask vs Influenza

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/epidemiology-and-infection/article/face-masks-to-prevent-transmission-of-influenza-virus-a-systematic-%20review/64D368496EBDE0AFCC6639CCC9D8BC05

Masks vs Influenza

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/j.1750-2659.2011.00307.x



Spoiler Alert - Masks don't do anything

Stop trying to derail the thread with your Koch nonsense.

[G13]

Jesus christ, I'm so tired of these idiot threads and the idiots that keep posting them.

It. Does. Not. Matter. That. The. Virus. Is. Smaller. Than. The. Mask.

The virus doesn't fly through the air independently, you fucking mongoloid. It travels in small water droplets that are caught by the mask at a high rate. (Yes, it doesn't catch them all). I'm pretty sure I can get a local chiropractor to sign off of something if that helps, since you like to lean on arguments from people who aren't virologists.

Dipshits like you are the reason that the virus is still going strong.

In case you were wondering, i peppered in a good amount of Ad Hominem because: fuck you

Wow what an idiotic post. You can get off your high horse now.

Even with the masks, aerosol particles smaller in diameter than the holes in the masks remain that can contain the virus. Not to mention the huge gaps on each side of the mask. Have you not seen people wearing them?

Masks don't do anything

It's been a gradual control experiment. Pavlov's dogs.

1) 2 week lock down to flatten the curve
2) Initial mask mandate
3) Vaccine(s)
4) People telling you to double mask and social distance even after having been vaccinated (No Agenda there nah)
5) Vaccine Passport
6) Vaccine ID (can't go to events currently like sports/entertainment venues
7) Eternal Mask Mandate (See Oregon) what's the point of being vaccinated?

But you're stupid if you question any of it right? Like that's supposed to hurt my ego and make me care when Governments are using a pandemic to stomp all over Constitutional Rights?

[Jibartik]

Having had covid is not a badge of honor its either a badge of wage slavery or stupidity.

[Cassawary]

It's been a gradual control experiment. Pavlov's dogs.


How is this like Pavlov's dogs, drooler?

[HalflingSpergand]

Everyone gets sick

[Raev]

Having had covid is not a badge of honor its either a badge of wage slavery or stupidity.

Please stop with the victim blaming (https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/halt/how-to-avoid-victim-blaming/) Jibartik!

Victim-blaming is the attitude which suggests that the victim rather than the perpetrator bears responsibility for the assault. Victim-blaming occurs when it is assumed that an individual did something to provoke the violence by actions, words, or dress. Many people would rather believe that someone caused their own misfortune because it makes the world seem a safer place, but victim-blaming is a major reason that survivors of COVID do not report their infections. Many survivors are already grappling with feelings of guilt and shame for what has happened. It is essential that administrators do not reinforce these feelings. No matter what they were wearing, how much they had to drink, the victim should not be blamed. It is never the victim’s fault.

Also:

imagine believing since virus is small, holes are big, virus go through. Like... oh my god. Its like when a retarded baby puts the square peg in the round hole and it works but its obviously wrong...

Imagine being so out of shape that you cant breathe with a mask on but think that covid isnt a threat to you specifically lol

Just to be clear, I support your right to wear a mask and post online. My complaint is with Scientism, namely acting like people are correct because of their job description even when they no longer follow the processes from which they derive their authority. It's like a Puritan at the Salem Witch Trials saying his opinion is derived form God because his priest told him so.

I think this is enough posts for the next few months. I will leave it to Toxigen and G13 to carry on the noble battle against ignorance.

[Toxigen]

Even Bill Maher is calling bullshit on MSM's gross fear-mongering campaign.

Qp3gy_CLXho



https://i.imgur.com/xAXLrim.jpg

[Cassawary]

Even Bill Maher is calling bullshit on MSM's gross fear-mongering campaign.

Qp3gy_CLXho

The Importance of Bill Maher’s Liberal Contrarianism (https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/04/the-importance-of-bill-mahers-liberal-contrarianism/)

[Toxigen]

Looks like Denis Leary just got replaced as boomers' favorite conservative comedian.

Except he's a liberal....and he's calling it like it is.

Maybe watch the video?

[Horza]

Maher is a comedian and if you think he's very liberal you're falling for kayfabe.

[Toxigen]

Maher is a comedian and if you think he's very liberal you're falling for kayfabe.

Politics aside (if you're even capable of that)....just watch the video and tell me he's wrong.

[G13]

Maher is a comedian and if you think he's very liberal you're falling for kayfabe.

If you actually believe what you typed it shows more how extreme you've been led to by your puppet masters than Maher's politics

Just because you're a liberal doesn't mean you don't question what your politicians do

[Horza]

Maher last month: “People go to parties now and they’re like, ‘Can I talk? I don’t know your girlfriend, she might be woke.’” The bit began with calling for liberals to come up with a new “stand your ground law for cancel culture. So that when the woke mob comes after you for some ridiculous offense, you’ll stand your ground and stop apologizing, because I can’t keep up anymore with who’s on the shit list.”

[G13]

Maher last month: “People go to parties now and they’re like, ‘Can I talk? I don’t know your girlfriend, she might be woke.’” The bit began with calling for liberals to come up with a new “stand your ground law for cancel culture. So that when the woke mob comes after you for some ridiculous offense, you’ll stand your ground and stop apologizing, because I can’t keep up anymore with who’s on the shit list.”

You're acting like Cancel Culture is a good thing and not Fascist to the core

You're self owning and you don't even realize it

You don't understand fundamentally was Liberalism is


Maybe you should stop posting. It's not helping you.

[Horza]

Cancel culture is a dog whistle for conservatives.

[Toxigen]

Zero comment on the content of the video...just keep on going with the political bullshit.

Typical.

[G13]

Cancel culture is a dog whistle for conservatives.

Whenever you have nothing, you just run back to bashing Conservatives

You don't understand how far you've strayed from Liberalism (what it is supposed to be)


Unless you want to pretend Maher is now a Conservative? Please go ahead and try so I can just laugh at you

[Horza]

Sorry no one else is interested in your boomer comedy.

[zodium]

You don't understand fundamentally was Liberalism is

this is essential to being a liberal tho

[Cassawary]

https://i.imgur.com/4VMsKOb.png

[Cassawary]

Zero comment on the content of the video...just keep on going with the political bullshit.

Typical.

You only like Bill Maher cuz he says the gamer word.

[Toxigen]

You only like Bill Maher cuz he says the gamer word.

I have no idea what that means.

FWIW I've never paid any attention to Bill Maher before. I happened across that video and posted it out of relevance.

These overtly politicized shit-for-brains just couldn't stand to discuss the content at face value. Seems to be par for the course here now.

[Jibartik]

Democrats: Politicians shouldn't have ot pass purity tests!

People: I like this comedian.

Democrats: HE IS IMPURE HE IS IMPURE!