List Integrity

[Grakken]

EE PH has been up for two hours now. Fateweaver has taken the camp hostage being slot 1, demanding others kill it for him.

Level 35 is too low for List. Or add rules, mandating slot 1 engage PH in a reasonable time frame. Two hours is not reasonable.

[Zal22]

This is gold

[DarkwingDuck]

Kill it for him then morons

[Nirgon]

Called this with the /list mechanic lol

Just like all those blue raid rules

The people are the problem

[Grakken]

Kill it for him then morons

I'm missing Rubi wrists. Can you go farm that for me?

[Crovax]

To be fair. I was in a party since 5AM.

The healer finally got the mana stone and the mage (Harm) was bugged and couldnt get on the list. Him and I were duoing it for the most part and he said he would stay until someone else showed up and got on the list.

Grakken showed up and trained us (Could have been a mistake). I asked if we should get one more person or just duo it and he refused to help.

Masterize showed up and I asked if he wanted to party. He refused and said I wasn't strong enough (We are the same level).

You guys will not bully me into losing my spot.

[Zal22]

By not killing it "for him" you are just prolonging your own wait time. Morans.

[Jimjam]

4 manastones coukd have dropped in that time.

[Crovax]

And to prove my point. Chat logs. I was in a party doing just fine. We thought Grakken was joining to contribute. https://i.imgur.com/il2tMOK.png

More chat log showing the situation of me being partied with Grakken more than willing to help and contribute and him trying to force me to solo it.

https://i.imgur.com/tbuPZw2.png

Not sure why people are pretending like I am level 5 and want someone to kill it for me. I am the appropriate level for the /list and have been willing to help from the very beginning before Grakken or anyone else showed up.

[aaezil]

Hahahahaha

Ha

[Crovax]

To further prove my point. Look up at the above chat log where I was literally in the party before Grakken and we were doing just fine (Someone got their manastone). That I was offering to continue to help.

Then Masterize shows up and Grakken acts like I refused to help kill.

https://i.imgur.com/DhGE3tA.png

[baakss]

I thought Teal was supposed to be the less toxic one?!

Green MS camp pretty chill except for the heartbreak from LD's and such.

[lituviel]

I'm sure you will be hearing from myself or my wonderful Guides if that situation occurs

from post : https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2993208&postcount=105

[Crovax]

from post : https://www.project1999.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2993208&postcount=105

Sure if you ignore the fact I have been farming it all day. Literally have chat logs of being in the party who just got a mana stone and the healer and mage leaving and me offering to party with Grakken (who refuses) and then when Masterize shows up and Hails the first thing I do is offer to party (And he refuses).

This isn't a case of me being level 35 and showing up and /listing. I am #1 on the list and have been contributing the entire time the party has been going.

[lituviel]

Then if you want people to help you on YOUR camp. You must share the item with them, defo roll it would make a compromise.
Simple.

[Grakken]

This isn't a case of me being level 35 and showing up and /listing. I am #1 on the list and have been contributing the entire time the party has been going.

But you're not contributing. PH has been up for over 2 hours. You've done 0 about that.

[Crovax]

But you're not contributing. PH has been up for over 2 hours. You've done 0 about that.

I have contributed as much as you have. PH has been up for over 2 hours. You've done 0 about that.

If you guys pull it I will be fighting it as well. You have trained me once already.

[Grakken]

I have contributed as much as you have. PH has been up for over 2 hours. You've done 0 about that.

If you guys pull it I will be fighting it as well. You have trained me once already.

I have 0 desire to camp a 10 hour camp for a complete stranger.

[Nirgon]

Should be legal to train a hostage taker

[Crovax]

Should be legal to train a hostage taker

I mean. I don't think it is illegal. But if someone trains you and then says, "Go pull that even con and solo it"-Might be wise to take a step back and FD.

I was here before them. Helped the last person get a manastone. Grakken joined my party. Then he left my party. Then came here and acted like I refused to help lol.

When the next person shows up the first thing I do is send a message asking if they want to party. There is no way to spin this that I refused to help but here they are trying lol. Especially no way to spin this that "Demanded" others to kill it for me. I was literally partied with the person who created this thread. And have the chat logs where I was wanting to duo with him and asked if we should get a third. Which is when he states that I can't solo it so I shouldn't be here.

Same thing with the next person who arrived. I didn't stay silent and hoped he killed them. I didn't demand he kill them. I asked if he wanted to party. Doesn't make sense to say, "We don't want to party with you and refuse to help you" then turn around say, "He's holding the camp hostage"! He's Demanding us to kill for him by having invited us to his party, and asking if we want to join him, lol.

[lituviel]

Then share Manastone with them if you require their help.
Not sure what you don't understand there.

[baakss]

More people will show up who won't try to bully you out of your spot. Stand strong!

[Dolalin]

Llandris said in another thread to petition this BS, I would start there.

[Grakken]

More people will show up who won't try to bully you out of your spot. Stand strong!

Its not bullying to expect someone to be able to kill what they are camping. If /list didn't exist would a person be able to hold a camp because they "dibs" it? This is ridiculous.

He should be expected to engage the mob.

[Zal22]

More people will show up who won't try to bully you out of your spot. Stand strong!

[baakss]

Its not bullying to expect someone to be able to kill what they are camping. If /list didn't exist would a person be able to hold a camp because they "dibs" it? This is ridiculous.

He should be expected to engage the mob.

On Green we're just helping each other ala scout roll. Nobody is bringing a group or a duo or a trio.

Nobody currently on the list on Green is capable of solo'ing, but we're not being jerks about it.

[Swish]

On Green we're just helping each other ala scout roll. Nobody is bringing a group or a duo or a trio.

Nobody currently on the list on Green is capable of solo'ing, but we're not being jerks about it.

The quicker it dies, the quicker it respawns <3

[Ataria]

Currently on green we are all ping-ponging it off each other, lol. All of us are engaging, helping. We are all 35-36, and not sure if any of us could solo it. Maybe one of us could, but doubtful, but regardless, we are all helping out - faster it goes down, faster for the next one to spawn!

[WaffleztheAndal]

If you can’t take the EE down then leave the camp. If your friends or whatever are gone and you can no longer handle the camp, cede it to the next in line who can. I’m pretty sure strangers aren’t obligated to help you keep your camp, and if you can no longer do it with you and your own backup then I’m pretty sure you are not allowed to hold the camp hostage.

[Crovax]

If you can’t take the EE down then leave the camp. If your friends or whatever are gone and you can no longer handle the camp, cede it to the next in line who can. I’m pretty sure strangers aren’t obligated to help you keep your camp, and if you can no longer do it with you and your own backup then I’m pretty sure you are not allowed to hold the camp hostage.

One of my friends from the previous group came back. I think Almond said he is coming back but he might still be sleeping. But before the mage even came back other strangers showed up who were willing to help and we are back to fighting the good fight against evil eyes.

And I never stated anyone was obligated to help me. Grakken joined my party. When he left and told me to solo I never replied, "You need to help me!", or, "You are obligated to help me!".

When Masterize showed up and I asked if they wanted to party and they said no. I didn't say, "You need to help me!", or, "You are obligated to help me!".

I wasn't sitting there idly by. I sent tells to everyone 35+ trying to recruit more people to come. If someone was 35+ and not anon there is a good chance they got a tell from me telling them that the list was only on 2 (When it was just me and grakken) and I even went to discord. I think I might have went a little hard on my efforts in that front to be honest. And again I wasn't sending them tells saying, "kill them for me" but asking if they wanted to duo the spot and that spot 3 was open. Some people I sent a tell to that can confirm this. Perplexa. Petmaster. Duraz. Magnatic. Kavion. Coming. Veilillth. Those are the people I could find in my chat window still at least. I was actively trying until people showed up willing to fight as well.

[lituviel]

One of my friends from the previous group came back. I think Almond said he is coming back but he might still be sleeping. But before the mage even came back other strangers showed up who were more than willing to help and THEY ARE BACK fighting EE for me.

[Fammaden]

Masterize showed up

Found your problem right here.

[WaffleztheAndal]

One of my friends from the previous group came back. I think Almond said he is coming back but he might still be sleeping. But before the mage even came back other strangers showed up who were more than willing to help and we are back to fighting the good fight against evil eyes.

You should have lost the camp when you were no longer able to hold it. I’m not nor will I ever attempt this camp because it’s fucking madness, but you aren’t allowed to hold a camp hostage.

[Nirgon]

This is why you need pvp

[Sarkhan]

Seems someone saw a chance at taking out someone ahead of them on list and didn't want to help.
Just help everyone and it will go faster. Good thing fate had FD, also did I read it wrong, Grakken already had a manastone???

35 is appropriate level to party at the EE, you should be able to get upgrades and items in a capable party, I wouldn't want to have to wait until 30 to solo dvinn to get a dirk just because I can't solo him yet fully capable to meaningfully contribute in a party to earn it.

[Crovax]

You should have lost the camp when you were no longer able to hold it. I’m not nor will I ever attempt this camp because it’s fucking madness, but you aren’t allowed to hold a camp hostage.

The makes a pretty gray area. Because the only reason I lost the ability to safely kill the camp was because Grakken joined. Then he left. Which means that guilds could join the list and groups then force people who were there for 20+ hours to have to leave which.... Seems silly. If Grakken didn't join the mage would have stayed until someone else showed up (you can look at the chat logs I posted to confirm this).

[skorge]

Just imagine how bad the /list will be once everyone hits 35, haha...OMG, OMG, OMG

I can see all the servers shutting down, literally

[cd288]

One of my friends from the previous group came back. I think Almond said he is coming back but he might still be sleeping. But before the mage even came back other strangers showed up who were willing to help and we are back to fighting the good fight against evil eyes.

And I never stated anyone was obligated to help me. Grakken joined my party. When he left and told me to solo I never replied, "You need to help me!", or, "You are obligated to help me!".

When Masterize showed up and I asked if they wanted to party and they said no. I didn't say, "You need to help me!", or, "You are obligated to help me!".

I wasn't sitting there idly by. I sent tells to everyone 35+ trying to recruit more people to come. If someone was 35+ and not anon there is a good chance they got a tell from me telling them that the list was only on 2 (When it was just me and grakken) and I even went to discord. I think I might have went a little hard on my efforts in that front to be honest. And again I wasn't sending them tells saying, "kill them for me" but asking if they wanted to duo the spot and that spot 3 was open. Some people I sent a tell to that can confirm this. Perplexa. Petmaster. Duraz. Magnatic. Kavion. Coming. Veilillth. Those are the people I could find in my chat window still at least. I was actively trying until people showed up willing to fight as well.

You're both kind of in the wrong, IMO. You're wrong because you shouldn't even be listing for the MS if you can't take down the mob yourself IMO. Just kind of dumb that you are able to do that and essentially hold up the whole process/the line because you are unable to kill the relevant mob(s).

Grakken is an ass for not agreeing just to be courteous/classy and help you despite you listing for something you can't take down.

At any rate, I can't wait to get high enough level to charm the EE because I like having it as a pet and watch everyone go insane (jk...kinda)

[unleashedd]

when my CLR hits 35, im heading over the EE camp and /listing. solo, grouped, dont care - the list function is there and if im number 1 and alone and people show up and refuse to kill PH BECAUSE im number 1 and cant solo it, then you bet your ass that shit will stagnate into no manastones for days...

#TeamCrovax

[cd288]

when my CLR hits 35, im heading over the EE camp and /listing. solo, grouped, dont care - the list function is there and if im number 1 and alone and people show up and refuse to kill PH BECAUSE im number 1 and cant solo it, then you bet your ass that shit will stagnate into no manastones for days...

#TeamCrovax

I believe the Guides have said this is a petionable offense. No one is obligated to help you (as jerk of a move as it may be of them not to). If you can't handle the mob solo and you try and hold things up then you'll get petitioned and probably get in trouble.

[Tecmos Deception]

The makes a pretty gray area. Because the only reason I lost the ability to safely kill the camp was because Grakken joined. Then he left. Which means that guilds could join the list and groups then force people who were there for 20+ hours to have to leave which.... Seems silly. If Grakken didn't join the mage would have stayed until someone else showed up (you can look at the chat logs I posted to confirm this).

It's not a gray area. It just doesn't work in your favor, so you're trying to make up excuses for why you should be entitled to the drop from a camp that you can't handle. Nobody could screw over the #1 person as long as the #1 person can handle the camp on their own... just like you're supposed to be able to with every other camp.

Everyone else involved are dicks too. But you're still in the wrong.



Also this is all just fantastic. Lol.

[Crovax]

It's not a gray area. It just doesn't work in your favor, so you're trying to make up excuses for why you should be entitled to the drop from a camp that you can't handle. Nobody could screw over the #1 person as long as the #1 person can handle the camp on their own... just like you're supposed to be able to with every other camp.

Everyone else involved are dicks too. But you're still in the wrong.



Also this is all just fantastic. Lol.

Oh, can you link me to that rule? I didn't see it listed anywhere in the rules for /list that you need to be able to hold a camp solo in order to have a slot for it. If that is a rule I will make sure to level to a point where that is possible instead of the level that is listed.

Would still be pretty shady for someone to join a party then immediately leave it to try and push someone out of the list lol. But if that was a literal rule then it would make more sense then trying to force a rule that isn't there.

[Phaezed-Reality]

This is what pvp is for.

[Tecmos Deception]

Oh, can you link me to that rule? I didn't see it listed anywhere in the rules for /list that you need to be able to hold a camp solo in order to have a slot for it. If that is a rule I will make sure to level to a point where that is possible instead of the level that is listed.

But if you are just making up excuses then... I mean. Why? :P

It doesn't stop being a camp just because there are extra rules involved. Your situation isn't specifically addressed (yet) because...

So, to play devil's advocate here, what would stop a solo character from hanging out near camp (invis, itu, fd, rogue sneak/hide) and being #1 on the list, but not being able to kill the mob.
Along comes a group and kills said mob - does the solo person get the item, provided they weren't afk this whole time?

Am I reading this correctly?

You are correct. But your situation is unrealistic. These mobs will be permacamped as soon as players are within level range until the point they are removed.

... because Rogean didn't expect people like you would be a problem.

And indeed this wouldn't probably have come up except for the server split and the lockout currently being longer than the 7 days it's supposed to be, since both of those things chop down the number of people who would be behind you and possibly willing to help kill the mob.

[unleashedd]

so either come ready to solo it, bring a group, or dont come at all??? cause joining a group which is already there while being on the list last would result in crovax scenario...

[cd288]

Oh, can you link me to that rule? I didn't see it listed anywhere in the rules for /list that you need to be able to hold a camp solo in order to have a slot for it. If that is a rule I will make sure to level to a point where that is possible instead of the level that is listed.

Would still be pretty shady for someone to join a party then immediately leave it to try and push someone out of the list lol. But if that was a literal rule then it would make more sense then trying to force a rule that isn't there.

Lol now you're just being an idiot and looking progressively worse here. You want to be able to list for something without being able to actually kill it and then expect/demand that other people help you accomplish your goal. That's not the way it works. Sure, people can help you if they want (kind of makes sense for them to since the faster things are downed theoretically the faster MS's will show up). However, they are not obligated to and if you hold up the list because you want to try and get a valuable item without being able to actually kill the mob then you're being a jerk/selfish. Also, the Guides have said you can be petitioned for doing what you're doing, so by all means go ahead and keep doing it and get yourself in trouble. Or, alternatively, go get a couple of levels and come back when you can actually kill the thing.

Btw, in your screenshots it looks like you mentioned the mob was yellow. Yellow mobs are not impossible to solo in EQ, just difficult/risky. So what it kind of comes down to is that you technically could kill the mob, but since it could also possibly kill you you're afraid to lost your spot (aka being selfish).

[Crovax]

so either come ready to solo it, bring a group, or dont come at all??? cause joining a group which is already there while being on the list last would result in crovax scenario...

I had a group. You can check the chat log. The mage was staying until we found a replacement. Grakken was that replacement. He then left the party and told me to solo it lol Then claimed I refused to help.

I had been at the camp for around 20 hours before he showed up.

[unleashedd]

The mage was staying until we found a replacement. Grakken was that replacement. He then left the party and told me to solo it lol Then claimed I refused to help.


neckbeards gonna neckbeard. this is how to literaly bump people off list#1 spot :( sad

[cd288]

I had a group. You can check the chat log. The mage was staying until we found a replacement. Grakken was that replacement. He then left the party and told me to solo it lol Then claimed I refused to help.

I had been at the camp for around 20 hours before he showed up.

And while he might be rude for doing that, there's no obligation for him to help you and you can't hold up the list because you're unable to kill the necessary mob(s) solo. Would you show up at like level 5 and expect to be able to hold down the number 1 spot on the list when you can't kill the mob? No, you wouldn't.

You're being selfish

[Crovax]

Lol now you're just being an idiot and looking progressively worse here. You want to be able to list for something without being able to actually kill it and then expect/demand that other people help you accomplish your goal. That's not the way it works. Sure, people can help you if they want (kind of makes sense for them to since the faster things are downed theoretically the faster MS's will show up). However, they are not obligated to and if you hold up the list because you want to try and get a valuable item without being able to actually kill the mob then you're being a jerk/selfish. Also, the Guides have said you can be petitioned for doing what you're doing, so by all means go ahead and keep doing it and get yourself in trouble. Or, alternatively, go get a couple of levels and come back when you can actually kill the thing.

Btw, in your screenshots it looks like you mentioned the mob was yellow. Yellow mobs are not impossible to solo in EQ, just difficult/risky. So what it kind of comes down to is that you technically could kill the mob, but since it could also possibly kill you you're afraid to lost your spot (aka being selfish).

Name calling is always the best way to start an argument. When your argument has no real substance.

Again. I never expected/demanded anyone to help me kill anything. Your whole starting premise is based on a lie.

And ya, I never said yellows are impossible to solo. I specifically stated multiple times that I could kill it if I am lucky on resist but it would be dangerous and unnecessary. The only reason I ended up in that situation was because of Grakken. And I spent that time sending tells to people and looking for more people in discord. It wasn't until a few more people showed up and then we went back to killing it.

And Grakken had trained me earlier and then a monk showed up and they kept trying to pressure me into pulling. So I felt the safetest measure was to wait until I had people around who I didn't think were going to try and kill me lol

[Jack N]

Raise the level required to 40 or 45.

[Kornaki]

Grakken showing up and taking the #2 spot on the list to block anyone else from joining is the problem here. You can't expect someone else to come in and group with the #1 person while you sit on your lazy bum. The point of the list mechanic is in part to make the groups at these camps look like they're classic.

[Jack N]

That's the point of the /list mechanic you say?

[Crovax]

Grakken showing up and taking the #2 spot on the list to block anyone else from joining is the problem here. You can't expect someone else to come in and group with the #1 person while you sit on your lazy bum. The point of the list mechanic is in part to make the groups at these camps look like they're classic.

Except I didn't show up empty handed. I was in a party for around 18/19 hours when this happened.

and I wasn't the last person to join the party. There were three people behind me who just gaved up. And when Alport got his manastone I had one person behind me still (Harm) and we were able to duo just fine. He said he was going to stay until a replacement was found.

Grakken was that replacement. He joined the party. I didn't expect him to join. He joined. He was in my party. After Harm left then Grakken left the party and tried to muscle me out of the /list.

[Deckk]

This all sounds really healthy!

Play a warrior. No stones needed. Wait... that didn't come out right.

[baakss]

This all sounds really healthy!

Play a warrior. No stones needed. Wait... that didn't come out right.

Warrior can use Manastone to stay berserk :D

[Deckk]

Warrior can use Manastone to stay berserk :D

Yes, but then I’m a candidate to wind up offing myself by accident. I’m clumsy, ya know?

[Legidias]

Lol I literally called this out to Rogean (#2+ would hold the camp hostage and refuse to help kill until the #1 gave up) and was brushed off cause he thought it would be perma camped and people would always kill PH.

[curtischoy]

We are all dumber after reading any amount of this thread.

[Fawqueue]

Crovax seems to think whether or not he was in a group at some point in the past is a relevant detail, when in fact it doesn't matter if he's not in a group currently. They should have seen this coming...and honestly, if the EE/PH hasn't died in the last 30 minutes it should boot #1 off the list to get things moving along again.

[Crovax]

Crovax seems to think whether or not he was in a group at some point in the past is a relevant detail, when in fact it doesn't matter if he's not in a group currently. They should have seen this coming...and honestly, if the EE/PH hasn't died in the last 30 minutes it should boot #1 off the list to get things moving along again.

I do not think that. No where in the /list rules does it state, "You need a party to do this". But people continue to keep stating, "You can't just show up and expect people to kill the PH/EE for you".

So I am pointing out I didn't just show up. I was in a party for 18/19 hours. I was in a party killing it when Grakken arrived. Duoing with a Mage.

The reason that stopped is because Grakken agreed to join (Mage was waiting for someone to replace him so the party could continue). Grakken joins. Harm leaves and then Grakken leaves and tells me to solo it or leave the /list. Then immediately comes here to make a post about how I refused to help (Though I have screen shots that prove otherwise).

This wasn't a case of, "Someone showed up and was alone and couldn't do it omg!111!!". It was a case of someone joining a party then leaving it to force that situation

TLDR: That has never been my point. it is a counter argument to others people argument. I have followed the rules outlined in /list. If people want to see it changed that's cool give your feedback. But until it is changed you are stating your opinion and not facts.

[Daldaen]

Crovax isn’t claiming the camp here. He’s just on the list.

Any group is able to come in, take the camp and kill EE and loot all the bags they want. They don’t have to invite Crovax, they don’t have to buff him, they don’t even have to talk to him.

The camp is open and free to be claimed.

The one caveat is that if a Manastone drops, he will get it. That’s the whole point of the list system. This is working as intended. You know, except for the drop rate part.

[Chocolope]

Masterize is probably the worst monk I've seen on the server. Loves to threaten petition and try to bully, though hes just a bad that cries a lot in tells.

I hope this dude locked you up for hours.
Stick to your premade gomer.

[Legidias]

Crovax seems to think whether or not he was in a group at some point in the past is a relevant detail, when in fact it doesn't matter if he's not in a group currently. They should have seen this coming...and honestly, if the EE/PH hasn't died in the last 30 minutes it should boot #1 off the list to get things moving along again.

Exactly what it shouldn't do. If this is the case, people will come, see there's #1 on the list, and then just wait him out to leave. According to the "solo or lose it" logic, clerics should basically not ever get any gear or plat in the game.

The helping single player get X item works fine on blue with scout / goblin, but people too greedy on classic servers.

[Bookie]

Sooooooo all the people choosing Grakken's side:

I was #2 at the Jboots camp. The #1 was a 38 rogue. it was him, my 27 necro, and no one else. I soloed the triple spawn because I was getting exp. I did this for a long time in the spirit of the /list. But according to everyone else, I should have just muscled him out of there because I am sure a rogue could not keep up with all the necro dots and the HTs from Drelzna.

That sounds like an asshole move to me.

[Modwolf]

This is how the list works. These fools delaying their own stones.

[AegnorP99]

Crovax isn’t claiming the camp here. He’s just on the list.

Any group is able to come in, take the camp and kill EE and loot all the bags they want. They don’t have to invite Crovax, they don’t have to buff him, they don’t even have to talk to him.

The camp is open and free to be claimed.

The one caveat is that if a Manastone drops, he will get it. That’s the whole point of the list system. This is working as intended. You know, except for the drop rate part.

Someone gets it finally.

[cd288]

Name calling is always the best way to start an argument. When your argument has no real substance.

Again. I never expected/demanded anyone to help me kill anything. Your whole starting premise is based on a lie.

And ya, I never said yellows are impossible to solo. I specifically stated multiple times that I could kill it if I am lucky on resist but it would be dangerous and unnecessary. The only reason I ended up in that situation was because of Grakken. And I spent that time sending tells to people and looking for more people in discord. It wasn't until a few more people showed up and then we went back to killing it.

And Grakken had trained me earlier and then a monk showed up and they kept trying to pressure me into pulling. So I felt the safetest measure was to wait until I had people around who I didn't think were going to try and kill me lol

The reason you ended up in the situation wasn't because of Grakken. The reason you ended up in the situation was because you listed for something that you can't kill without help. If you show up to list for something that you can't solo, then you accept the risk that other people might not help you and therefore you'd have to give up your spot if you're number 1 on the list. If you don't want to take that risk, then go get a couple levels and then list, rather than listing when you're not a sufficient level and blaming others for your mistake/greed.

I don't disagree that it's kind of rude not to help the person who is number 1 kill the mob, but there's no obligation to. Therefore, you put yourself in this situation because you listed when you're not able to actually kill the mob. No one else is to blame for the situation.

[Modwolf]

Everyone will go here at 35 if they can solo or not. The rules are cut and dry. They won't change. Complain all you want you won't get a stone until the person ahead of you does.

[unleashedd]

if i show up to heal as a cleric, am last on list, and then am basically abandoned (for whatever reason), i am shit out of luck although am on top of list now???

[cd288]

Everyone will go here at 35 if they can solo or not. The rules are cut and dry. They won't change. Complain all you want you won't get a stone until the person ahead of you does.

Except I believe it's been said that blocking the list from progressing because you show up and can't kill the mob and refuse to engage, you can be petitioned for that

[Modwolf]

if i show up to heal as a cleric, am last on list, and then am basically abandoned (for whatever reason), i am shit out of luck although am on top of list now???

You are good, not everyone is stupid and will help. They waste their own time not helping kill.

[Crovax]

The reason you ended up in the situation wasn't because of Grakken. The reason you ended up in the situation was because you listed for something that you can't kill without help. If you show up to list for something that you can't solo, then you accept the risk that other people might not help you and therefore you'd have to give up your spot if you're number 1 on the list.

Can you point out where that rule is listed? I cannot find it anywhere.


I don't disagree that it's kind of rude not to help the person who is number 1 kill the mob, but there's no obligation to. Therefore, you put yourself in this situation because you listed when you're not able to actually kill the mob. No one else is to blame for the situation.

Here is the thing. I didn't expect him to help me. When he said he wasn't going to help and he will wait until I solo one I didn't beg him to continue to kill it. I didn't come and make a forum thread and cry about it. I said okay. I started looking for people who could help me with it.

Eventually people showed up and things started rolling again. I followed the rules for /list.

If you disagree with the rules you can give your feedback and maybe they will change it. If they want people to solo it I would suggest upping the level requirement to something that suggest, "You need to be able to solo this" or just add, "You need to be able to solo this" as part of the rules.

[beversami]

Book up?

[Modwolf]

Here is the thing. I didn't expect him to help me. When he said he wasn't going to help and he will wait until I solo one I didn't beg him to continue to kill it. I didn't come and make a forum thread and cry about it. I said okay. I started looking for people who could help me with it.

Eventually people showed up and things started rolling again. I followed the rules for /list.


Post when you get the stone. Is grakken sitting in a corner pouting that you got help?

[stewe]

Except I believe it's been said that blocking the list from progressing because you show up and can't kill the mob and refuse to engage, you can be petitioned for that

where did you hear this BS, show me were a Dev/GM/Guide has said it is petition able not another player saying it

[baakss]

Except I believe it's been said that blocking the list from progressing because you show up and can't kill the mob and refuse to engage, you can be petitioned for that

No, it wasn't actually. You're inferring things from Llandris' post without getting proper clarification on what he meant. I certainly interpreted his post differently than you are right now.

Personally, I think you're confused about camps and lists.

Think of it this way: You have a full exp group camping ass/sup right now and everyone has their guise already and cannot list.

I arrive and list. Now what you're suggesting is I have to be able to kill the ghoul assassin. Sounds good, but does that now mean you're not allowed to touch him or his ph until the list is empty? That doesn't make any sense. The camp and list are different things.

Daldaen put it best:

Crovax isn’t claiming the camp here. He’s just on the list.

Any group is able to come in, take the camp and kill EE and loot all the bags they want. They don’t have to invite Crovax, they don’t have to buff him, they don’t even have to talk to him.

The camp is open and free to be claimed.

The one caveat is that if a Manastone drops, he will get it. That’s the whole point of the list system. This is working as intended. You know, except for the drop rate part.

[Palemoon]

wow. Did not see this one coming. The top six people on the /list should help kill place holders, period.

yall need pvp , bad.

[nicemace]

Stay strong bro don't give up. The retards not helping are just trying to bully you out. Ignore them you aren't doing anything wrong.

[Mirakk82]

I don't see anywhere where it says that you have to be able to -solo- the mob in question in order to advance. Now, you should be able to maintain a group able to clear it, sure. That I can't dispute

And to be fair, he IS trying to do that. It's the other people on the list who are being pricks about it, and refusing to help because they'd rather see him bumped from the list then just help the process along, and we can clearly see that.

So no, I don't think he's the real A-hole here.

[Veeshan31]

Wow so it looks like Grakken and Masterize are confirmed scumbags. Ill make sure to never help them out with anything. Nice job you cowards. I hope you never get a manastone.

Its people like them that make me really hate this community. Masterize even twisted Rogeans words. "He never expected people like you" talking about the guy that was #1 on list. No Masterize, you idiot. He never expected people like YOU. That would purposefully not help in order to bully someone off the list.

[Sarkhan]

if i show up to heal as a cleric, am last on list, and then am basically abandoned (for whatever reason), i am shit out of luck although am on top of list now???

[Lojik]

Except I believe it's been said that blocking the list from progressing because you show up and can't kill the mob and refuse to engage, you can be petitioned for that

How is Corvax blocking the list from progressing? Literally anyone can come and engage it. He's even offering to team up to take it down.

[Modwolf]

Wow so it looks like Grakken and Masterize are confirmed scumbags. Ill make sure to never help them out with anything. Nice job you cowards. I hope you never get a manastone.

Its people like them that make me really hate this community. Masterize even twisted Rogeans words. "He never expected people like you" talking about the guy that was #1 on list. No Masterize, you idiot. He never expected people like YOU. That would purposefully not help in order to bully someone off the list.

[Rooj]

I doubt very seriously Crovax is the first person or the last to show up at one of these camps being unable to solo it. If the camps are so popular and there's almost always several people there to help kill the mob, no one is ever going to assume that they'll have to be able to solo it. And as it's been mentioned, the rules never say anything about having to be able to solo it. Read the first responses to the thread here: https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=337066
Crovax was willing to do his part at the camp, but others weren't. If anything the others are absolutely the problem here, being the ones who are CHOOSING to not help the list progress. However there doesn't seem to be any rules regarding participation either, other than perhaps Llandris's post, so /shrug. So I guess the list just sits there until people start showing up to help. If I were high enough level, I'd have come there and helped.

[lituviel]

So to make it clear I am Masterize and I actually engaged the mob to clear the drama 20 minutes after arriving and understanding the situation.

Crovax who was waiting FD and not doing anything for more than 2Hours didn't even bother accept group, did not bother answer my messages and not even a thank when we killed his PH.


To me it is still logic that you want to claim an Item you have to be able to solo the camp. Specially in this case.
If you can't solo it and REQUIRE help of others than you should be able to share the loot with a roll, like anything else.
Or this rule need to be stated by a GM or someone I don't know.

I ended up helping because it makes sense to restart the rotation for the sake of the server, and it was a succesfull move. Even if now grakken is still not helping and I understand his position.

We're here about to help each other and have fun.

To me an adjustement is necessary, I'm not sure if a timer is a good choice on mob spawn with a boot of the list in the end.
A dedicated rule (as many other on the server... ) should do it since people are again abusing system.

[WaffleztheAndal]

So if it’s working as intended that Crovax shows up to a camp he can’t handle and is still entitled to the next manastone that drops, this is really just manastone welfare/charity. I never thought I’d say this, but man Red seems attractive about now.

[nicemace]

Did you read the initial information? It's always been the case and is very clear. Do not confuse list with camp.

It's pretty much under the understanding that people shouldn't be dicks to each other. If there is a list, there is a group capable of killing the mob. Don't be dicks, no problemo.

[Cuktus]

Waiting 18 hours+ to have your group die and then have people claim "sucks to be you, /quit loser" is just insane to me. Ya know, all that time, just poof, its gone? It seems fairly reasonable to me to expect there are going to be enough people at any give them to delete EE without much issue, yeah?

That said, "Help yourself, help /list 1" is also pretty crazy. Why should I help someone who shouldn't be here? If you can't handle the mob, you can't handle the mob. No killing, no looting, leave. This ain't your loot.

Writing this out, what's fair, what ain't, I think I have made up my mind. The server is for a "Classic Experience", yes? In classic, were people more friendly/helpful/less greedy (in general) or were people more solo minded/self minded? If we think friendly, then everyone needs to help kill /list mobs. If we thinking folks were more about solo, then start booting people from /list if the mob stays up too long.

Just my 2cp.

[Rooj]

So if it’s working as intended that Crovax shows up to a camp he can’t handle and is still entitled to the next manastone that drops, this is really just manastone welfare/charity. I never thought I’d say this, but man Red seems attractive about now.

How many people have shown up thus far being unable to solo the camp? There is almost always people there, there is almost always no reason to solo it. The sad part is, even in THIS situation, there still was no reason to solo it because the player in question was NOT alone at the camp.

[Enme]

Enme/Harms

Wow just wow. How about some kindness to others?
I couldn't even /list since the reset is broken and I couldn't bring myself to just log and leave a stranger in a situation where he couldn't solo a mob. I had no idea the situation would result in someone choosing to bully Fate instead of helping.

Life is filled with these decisions. Choose better

[lituviel]

Nice job you cowards. I hope you never get a manastone.



FIY I already have my manastone, I came here with my friend who was a druid 35 to HELP him get his.

So we need to :

Help the #1 to #x guys for 10 hours average item untill everyone's happy in order to get this done ?
We can't just sit here and do afk check every few minutes, then get rdy for real business when we're in charge of the camp ? We have to do it for the others since they can't solo it ?

if it is so, I would agree the rule, but it is not stated like this AND it is not logical to fight PH for 40 - 100 hours if you're #10 on list. *

Sorry, that's just a game, get back to real life.

[Modwolf]

This user is on your Ignore List.
Today 11:32 AM


Thank you for making your forum account known. In game name already acquired.

[Chocolope]

get back to real life.

No one cares, you know why? We've had interactions with you in game and know youre a clown. Take your own advice. You wont be getting any help with progression, hope your awful premade bucks up for u.

[korzax]

Should be legal to train a hostage taker

you have no clue about the difference between laws, and rules.

The rules should allow training, not the law.

[Man0warr]

From an outside observer, seems like Grakken/Masterize are huge douchebags who realized they could bully the #1 off the List to get their own manastone quicker.

[korzax]

Its not bullying to expect someone to be able to kill what they are camping. If /list didn't exist would a person be able to hold a camp because they "dibs" it? This is ridiculous.

He should be expected to engage the mob.

The fact that you refused to help, makes you the ass, not him.

What is so wrong with helping people, you guys are so selfish sometimes.

[lituviel]

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340978


2. To add insult to injury, we have players who couldn't normally hold down these camps, holding down these camps. Further adding to the que.

Example. A level 25 warrior had Jboot camp, but couldnt get in the door, and couldnt kill Rathyl. The camp was held for several hours without the PH ever being killed. Most players under 30 would struggle holding down that room solo.


So this sounds fair enough too ?
We have same case, different position.

[Crovax]

So to make it clear I am Masterize and I actually engaged the mob to clear the drama 20 minutes after arriving and understanding the situation.


Odd. I remember Minimio (who is still here) and Bellezza (Also still here) being the ones that offered to help which I accepted. When we starting fighting then yes, you stayed for the first fight against the PH. Then wanted me to thank you afterwards.

You could see the situation pretty clear here. I will attach a screen shot of the chat in case you forgot.

https://i.imgur.com/DhGE3tA.png



Crovax who was waiting FD and not doing anything for more than 2Hours didn't even bother accept group, did not bother answer my messages and not even a thank when we killed his PH.

Yeah. After Grakken tried to train me the first time and then a monk shows up. Yeah I stayed FD until there were people there to see what is going on. And incase you try to gaslight and pretend you didn't know what happened you reference you are going to do 3 petitions (there was only 2 of you, 1 including Grakken) and you said you were going to post on the forums (You didn't, Grakken did).



To me it is still logic that you want to claim an Item you have to be able to solo the camp. Specially in this case.


Show me a rule that states this.



If you can't solo it and REQUIRE help of others than you should be able to share the loot with a roll, like anything else.
Or this rule need to be stated by a GM or someone I don't know.

This isn't a rule. This is your opinion. Players are not governed by your opinions.



I ended up helping because it makes sense to restart the rotation for the sake of the server, and it was a succesfull move. Even if now grakken is still not helping and I understand his position.

This would make sense if you decide to help and started fighting. You didn't. We have Minimio and Bellezza to thank for that.


We're here about to help each other and have fun.

Sure after your attempt to bully didn't work. After your threat of three petitions didn't work. And after your posting in the forums didn't work. Then after people show up to help that made your bully tactics not work then yeah. After all that you seemed ready to help each other and have fun, lol.



To me an adjustement is necessary, I'm not sure if a timer is a good choice on mob spawn with a boot of the list in the end.
A dedicated rule (as many other on the server... ) should do it since people are again abusing system.


You seem to think using the /list section as intended is abuse. It's not. I would agree this camp does need to be adjusted though but for entirely different reasons.

[Lojik]

Here's a thought: If someone is ahead of you on list and you don't want to help kill it, why not just GO DO SOMETHING ELSE. If he's sitting there by himself just clicking afk checks he's wasting his own time. If you really really just need the manastone or you'll start having convulsions if you don't have (another?) one in a week or less, then help him kill it. Like seriously, is it a manastone or a crack rock? Based on the threads on this I'm assuming it's some form of the latter.

[Chocolope]

The funniest part of this to me, personally, is that it hasn't been two days since lituviel/masterize was hard training people in HHK, like straight FD Tyrana and 3 guards right ontop of them. He and his premade then proceeded to pull mobs that others had been camping for hours. Now he wants to talk about camp / list integrity? hahaha
This guy is a guy.

[Grakken]

The fact that you refused to help makes you the ass, not him.

What is so wrong with helping people, you guys are so selfish sometimes.

I don't understand. When did the absence of charity become rude or selfish? If I hold the door open for someone, I'm nice. If I don't, I'm an ahole?

This is 10 hours of charity to a complete stranger. I don't understand why it is being compelled.

I did not bully him out of anything. Had I just logged off, he'd be in the same scenario. Three hours of a PH up and no one killing it.

[E-Queue]

From an outside observer, seems like Grakken/Masterize are huge douchebags who realized they could bully the #1 off the List to get their own manastone quicker.

[Haynar]

You can argue this either way. The person at #1 cant kill mob. So should they lose their spot? Or are those that wont help, causing a zone disruption?

I would expect some tweaks are made to the /list functionality. The whole /list idea, is meant to not require staff to babysit these specific rare item spawns. And getting the rare item will still require putting in the time.

There is no /claim. Here is your new manastone. Grats me!

The intent is to make these camps manageable, and prevent from becoming non-stop shitshows.

[Lojik]

I don't understand. When did the absence of charity become rude or selfish? If I hold the door open for someone, I'm nice. If I don't, I'm an ahole?

This is 10 hours of charity to a complete stranger. I don't understand why it is being compelled.

I did not bully him out of anything. Had I just logged off, he'd be in the same scenario. Three hours of a PH up and no one killing it.

THE HORROR

[lituviel]

This would make sense if you decide to help and started fighting. You didn't. We have Minimio and Bellezza to thank for that.


Nope, you were FD'ed in the back we started grouping, we were grouped with them, you didn't even bother accepting the invite.

Panoramix and I engaged the PH.

However you don't show screeshot of following conversation. There's a reason to it.

We ended up helping you to get this started and taking your side and you still put me down.
Whatever, stupidity.

[Modwolf]

I don't understand. When did the absence of charity become rude or selfish? If I hold the door open for someone, I'm nice. If I don't, I'm an ahole?

This is 10 hours of charity to a complete stranger. I don't understand why it is being compelled.

I did not bully him out of anything. Had I just logged off, he'd be in the same scenario. Three hours of a PH up and no one killing it.

You made this thread calling him out. You are an asshole.

[Grakken]

Or are those that wont help, causing a zone disruption?



I don't get how it is a zone disruption. For 2 hours it was just me and him. If I had logged off he'd be in the same scenario.

I honestly don't think he has broken P99 Rules. I just find it offensive I'm obligated to farm a manastone for a stranger. I'm happy to wait in line, he just isn't able to move the line forward. He couldn't solo it or get a group to come kill it for him in that time. There should be some time limit to engage appropriate to the encounter.

[Lojik]

You can argue this either way. The person at #1 cant kill mob. So should they lose their spot? Or are those that wont help, causing a zone disruption?

I would expect some tweaks are made to the /list functionality. The whole /list idea, is meant to not require staff to babysit these specific rare item spawns. And getting the rare item will still require putting in the time.

There is no /claim. Here is your new manastone. Grats me!

The intent is to make these camps manageable, and prevent from becoming non-stop shitshows.

The problem is people will create shitstorms out of nothing to change rules/features to benefit themselves, which seems to be the case here. I don't think every shitstorm that occurs needs to result in rule/feature changes. I'd wager the vast majority of the population on this server, had they been in Grakken/Masterizes situation would have grouped up with Fate right away and started chuggin on those PH's, or just logged off cause they didn't want to wait (probably) 24+ hours for a chance at a stone. Now, if you put the question in some sort of poll "should people be required to help kill ph/mob for #1 on list if they want to move up" then that number would probably drop closer to 50%. Good thing most people don't "just" do what's required of them and nothing less, for the most part.

[korzax]

The reason you ended up in the situation wasn't because of Grakken. The reason you ended up in the situation was because you listed for something that you can't kill without help. If you show up to list for something that you can't solo, then you accept the risk that other people might not help you and therefore you'd have to give up your spot if you're number 1 on the list. If you don't want to take that risk, then go get a couple levels and then list, rather than listing when you're not a sufficient level and blaming others for your mistake/greed.

I don't disagree that it's kind of rude not to help the person who is number 1 kill the mob, but there's no obligation to. Therefore, you put yourself in this situation because you listed when you're not able to actually kill the mob. No one else is to blame for the situation.

The reason he found himself in the mess was because person2 joined, the other guy left because of that action, and then person2 left the party so he could screw the #1

Everything about this just makes the second guy look like an asshole, and anyone, like you, that is arguing the opposite is just trolling at this point.

[Lojik]

I don't get how it is a zone disruption. For 2 hours it was just me and him. If I had logged off he'd be in the same scenario.

I honestly don't think he has broken P99 Rules. I just find it offensive I'm obligated to farm a manastone for a stranger. I'm happy to wait in line, he just isn't able to move the line forward. He couldn't solo it or get a group to come kill it for him in that time. There should be some time limit to engage appropriate to the encounter.

Lol

[Grakken]

You made this thread calling him out. You are an asshole.

Yeah, because I think it is BS what he is doing. IMO I think he is being the Ahole for holding the camp hostage. He could have engaged the mob at anytime. I didn't thwart him. He just wouldn't fight.

[Modwolf]

CD always trolls.

[korzax]

if i show up to heal as a cleric, am last on list, and then am basically abandoned (for whatever reason), i am shit out of luck although am on top of list now???

Yes, according to the assholes that play this game, you shouldn't get to have a MS.

[Cuktus]

Nicky Flippers: Let's just say that if a tree falls in the forest you'll get three stories: yours, mine and the tree's.

[Chocolope]

Yeah, because I think it is BS what he is doing. IMO I think he is being the Ahole for holding the camp hostage. He could have engaged the mob at anytime. I didn't thwart him. He just wouldn't fight.

cool opinion, no one cares

[lituviel]

Yes, according to the assholes that play this game, you shouldn't get to have a MS.

Or use the right class for this camp maybe ? Like let's see.. this game entire mechanic about class and challenge ?

[Modwolf]

You can't hold it hostage. You kill EE, stone drops. #1 loots it or not, he is still removed from the list. Wasting your own time.

[Crovax]

I don't understand. When did the absence of charity become rude or selfish? If I hold the door open for someone, I'm nice. If I don't, I'm an ahole?

This is 10 hours of charity to a complete stranger. I don't understand why it is being compelled.

I did not bully him out of anything. Had I just logged off, he'd be in the same scenario. Three hours of a PH up and no one killing it.

You realized I never once asked you to help kill it, right? For example. Did I create this thread? No. I didn't. Who created this thread then? You did. Did I make three /petitions? No. I didn't. Again. That was you guys (Unless Masterize was lying).

And you are right you didn't bully me out of anything. You tried though. Joining the group and then dropping and telling me to solo it or leave. That is attempting to bully me out of it. Bringing your friends to /petition or at least threaten petitions and make a post on the forums about it. Again. All you guys.

I never once complained in chat saying, "Oh please help me killl these guys". I never once even mentioned you in chat. I specifically stated to you and masterize I wouldn't reply to you in chat because I wasn't going to engage with that behavior in game.

I tried to group with you. We were actually in the group. You left and told me to solo or leave. I tried to group with Masterize and he told me I was too weak and need to leave and he was going to /petition. I put in the effort. I didn't like you said, "Refuse to help" lol.

Afterwards I sent tells to all the people 35+ looking for people to and join. I wasn't just there FD, I was actively looking for people.

When the mage and druid came I didn't hesitate at all to start helping with the kill once they started fighting. I never once said you need to help (Though I do appreciate the help you are putting in now and I also respect that you haven't said anything unwarranted since we stopped replying in chat). I never once hinted that I wanted you to help and if you didn't create this thread you wouldn't have heard a word from me about this. I do admit this thread is the driving force keeping me awake though.

So I am also thankful for that.

[Grakken]

Yes, according to the assholes that play this game, you shouldn't get to have a MS.

In my opinion you should get manastone like you get any other pixel in this game. Go solo it, or get a group to help you.

This has become an entitlement system. I don't disagree with what they are trying to do with it. I like it. I just thing it needs some fine tuning.

Suggestions I have for the list system:
Add ability to list as a group. And let group decide looter.
Increase level to solo /list.
Slot 1 has X time to engage or be removed from slot. 10 minutes for EE seems reasonable. Maybe 15.

[Modwolf]

Though. I do admit this thread is the driving force keeping me awake.

So I am also thankful for that.

Lol inadvertently getting help from your foes. Keep it up!! Get that manastone.

[WaffleztheAndal]

I think this thread has run it’s course. Grakken and Masterize are assholes and Crovax is looking for manastone welfare/charity, and has gotten it.

/thread

[Crovax]

You can argue this either way. The person at #1 cant kill mob. So should they lose their spot? Or are those that wont help, causing a zone disruption?

I would expect some tweaks are made to the /list functionality. The whole /list idea, is meant to not require staff to babysit these specific rare item spawns. And getting the rare item will still require putting in the time.

There is no /claim. Here is your new manastone. Grats me!

The intent is to make these camps manageable, and prevent from becoming non-stop shitshows.

To be fair I think the system worked. They tried to push me out of a spot. But because of the /list they couldn't. The moment others showed up things went smoothly back on track without a need of a guide there.

[PabloEdvardo]

Or are those that wont help, causing a zone disruption?

While you can currently hold a camp 'hostage' at #1 in a couple of ways, I still see the danger in adjustments that favor the opposing situation. A guild with sufficient online members could rotate people in-and-out and hold a camp permanently, if they have ways of booting people who they say "can't hold it alone" (read: aren't guild members / friends).

Currently, at least if you can solo the camp, you can hold a spot on the list (assuming no training / foul play).

At some level, my hope for the /list system was that it would force groups to form with pick-up members. e.g. that for these camps, at all times, all the people on the /list there are grouped, and helping each other, and as people get the item, they leave the group, so the next /list'ed can join.

Instead, like the typical min/max loot-fiend EQrs we are, we've found ways of exploiting the mechanics of the /list system, to either hold it hostage from a legitimate group that deserves to be there, or to force someone off the camp because your friends have greater numbers than theirs.

[Modwolf]

I'm excited to get my stone. The list is working as intended and from the sound of it, the line sounds smallish/reasonable if there were only 2 people on the list.

[korzax]

I don't understand. When did the absence of charity become rude or selfish? If I hold the door open for someone, I'm nice. If I don't, I'm an ahole?

This is 10 hours of charity to a complete stranger. I don't understand why it is being compelled.

I did not bully him out of anything. Had I just logged off, he'd be in the same scenario. Three hours of a PH up and no one killing it.

Was that before, or after you failed to train him, that you had the epiphany to just not help. Your intentions are very obvious to the people reading the screenshots that Crovax posted.

[korzax]

You can argue this either way. The person at #1 cant kill mob. So should they lose their spot? Or are those that wont help, causing a zone disruption?

I would expect some tweaks are made to the /list functionality. The whole /list idea, is meant to not require staff to babysit these specific rare item spawns. And getting the rare item will still require putting in the time.

There is no /claim. Here is your new manastone. Grats me!

The intent is to make these camps manageable, and prevent from becoming non-stop shitshows.

I don't think you succeded in creating less drama.

[Modwolf]

Instead, like the typical min/max loot-fiend EQrs we are, we've found ways of exploiting the mechanics of the /list system, to either hold it hostage from a legitimate group that deserves to be there, or to force someone off the camp because your friends have greater numbers than theirs.
You can't hold it hostage. You kill EE, stone drops. #1 loots it or not, he is still removed from the list. and can't force someone off. Your statement is false.

[Grakken]

To be fair I think the system worked. They tried to push me out of a spot. But because of the /list they couldn't. The moment others showed up things went smoothly back on track without a need of a guide there.

I never tried to push you out of your spot. I just don't want to earn it for you. I want you to earn it. I hope you get your MS. I just take issue of it being borne off other's sweat and not your own.

I think this showcases why some tweaks need to be made. Level 40 -44 to list here, or 35 if in a group.

[korzax]

I don't get how it is a zone disruption. For 2 hours it was just me and him. If I had logged off he'd be in the same scenario.

I honestly don't think he has broken P99 Rules. I just find it offensive I'm obligated to farm a manastone for a stranger. I'm happy to wait in line, he just isn't able to move the line forward. He couldn't solo it or get a group to come kill it for him in that time. There should be some time limit to engage appropriate to the encounter.

Keep going, that hole you are digging is mighty fine.

[Grakken]

Was that before, or after you failed to train him, that you had the epiphany to just not help. Your intentions are very obvious to the people reading the screenshots that Crovax posted.

To be fair I did train him on accident. My pet fell through the floor when I summoned him. That was not intentional, and I believe even Fate would agree. I died for it. I ran the mobs away from EE and died. He was FD the whole time.

[korzax]

In my opinion you should get manastone like you get any other pixel in this game. Go solo it, or get a group to help you.

This has become an entitlement system. I don't disagree with what they are trying to do with it. I like it. I just thing it needs some fine tuning.

Suggestions I have for the list system:
Add ability to list as a group. And let group decide looter.
Increase level to solo /list.
Slot 1 has X time to engage or be removed from slot. 10 minutes for EE seems reasonable. Maybe 15.

Yep, go solo or go home, eq isn't a game where you grp, it's a game where you solo or you don't get things. Guess a couple dragons are gonna be alive for sometime then.

[Bazia]

stop beign assholes and help jesus christ

[PabloEdvardo]

Can't be held hostage and can't force someone off. Your statement is false.

Hostage: #1 necro/monk/sk fd in drelzna room answering afk checks, not participating in kills

Forcing off: #1 on list can't hold it alone, so #2/3 who are working together drop group with #1 and don't assist on next kill, go invis or similar, leave for a few minutes, do anything to let that person die, while the "grace period" allows them to stay on list. Stay invis/don't kill pops when person tries to CR, so they can't CR in time. #1 loses spot.

[Grakken]

Yep, go solo or go home, eq isn't a game where you grp, it's a game where you solo or you don't get things. Guess a couple dragons are gonna be alive for sometime then.

I don't think you read what I said in the quote. I said solo it or get a group to do it. I'm confused. I never said soloing is the only way. Please read it again.

[korzax]

I never tried to push you out of your spot. I just don't want to earn it for you. I want you to earn it. I hope you get your MS. I just take issue of it being borne off other's sweat and not your own.

I think this showcases why some tweaks need to be made. Level 40 -44 to list here, or 35 if in a group.

BLAH BLAH BLAH, i'm a selfish ass, and i don't play well with others. That's you.

[DarkwingDuck]

stop beign assholes and help jesus christ

No shit.
This is 1 of the reasons you’ve been playing since 99 and still live at home.

[Modwolf]

Hostage: #1 necro/monk/sk fd in drelzna room answering afk checks, not participating in kills

Forcing off: #1 on list can't hold it alone, so #2/3 who are working together drop group with #1 and don't assist on next kill, go invis or similar, leave for a few minutes, do anything to let that person die, while the "grace period" allows them to stay on list.

Hostage: the items drops they get removed. False
Forcing: they don't engage and you turn into grakken. Or you try train and get banned for training. False

[Bazia]

"m going to completely grief this dude for the incredibly small statistical chance this situation could benefit me"

[lituviel]

Yep, go solo or go home, eq isn't a game where you grp, it's a game where you solo or you don't get things. Guess a couple dragons are gonna be alive for sometime then.

And you share this couple of dragon loot.

Try at least to understand the situation or just stop saying stupidity.

[stewe]

In my opinion you should get manastone like you get any other pixel in this game. Go solo it, or get a group to help you.

This has become an entitlement system. I don't disagree with what they are trying to do with it. I like it. I just thing it needs some fine tuning.

Suggestions I have for the list system:
Add ability to list as a group. And let group decide looter.
Increase level to solo /list.
Slot 1 has X time to engage or be removed from slot. 10 minutes for EE seems reasonable. Maybe 15.

Your first suggestion is not very good at ALL, that would defeat the purpose of the list cause then guilds could just keep cycling in their own guildies into the group and locking down the camp

[korzax]

And you share this couple of dragon loot.

Try at least to understand the situation or just stop saying stupidity.

Share, are you crazy.

[Grakken]

Your first suggestion is not very good at ALL, that would defeat the purpose of the list cause then guilds could just keep cycling in their own guildies into the group and locking down the camp

Stewe, the group gets one manastone, looter gets locked out. Group gets removed from list.

[bubur]

This was my nightmare when I was down to list spot one after a few hours, that everyone I had helped get a stone would leave me and i wasn't sure if I could solo it

Just help him kill it and /list behind him you maniac

[Meiva]

If the list system didn't exist, this guy would have to form a group or GTFO. I'm not sure he is in the right. It does seem a bit entitled thanks to #1 on this bogus list.

[Modwolf]

But the list system does exist. Get used to it & adapt. Boomer.

[PabloEdvardo]

Hostage: the items drops they get removed. False
Forcing: they don't engage and you turn into grakken. Or you try train and get banned for training. False

We must have much different interpretations of what defines hostage and forcing, as evidenced by this thread. Many here consider that behavior to be holding it hostage, and "turning into grakken" seems to be a divisive opinion, as well.

I'm a bit confused by your choice to curtly denounce everything I said without contributing anything in return, though. That's the behavior of an arrogant prick, not someone trying to advance the discussion. So I'll refrain from engaging your comments any further.

[Grakken]

But the list system does exist. Get used to it & adapt. Boomer.

you made me lol at boomer.

I think its healthy to discuss the system's woes and strengths for future tweaking.

[Sarkhan]

stop beign assholes and help jesus christ

[Arentak]

Kill it for him then morons

That should have been /thread.

[Crovax]

Post when you get the stone. Is grakken sitting in a corner pouting that you got help?

I got the stone :) And naw. Grakken was there helping with each kill. We didn't chat or anything but things were as cordial as they could be with the situation given.

In the end I think the /list is working. It took me 3 days to get a spot farming Shralok Packs because a guild was rotating it and that is a starting newbie item. This was a minor squabble (In my opinion) that was bigger here on the forums then it was in game and was fixed without needing a guide to show up thanks to the list.

I still think it could use some slight tweaking for Manastone but it is a solid step to keeping things going without a guide showing up. And now off to sleep for me!

[Modwolf]

We must have much different interpretations of what defines hostage and forcing, as evidenced by this thread. Many here consider that behavior to be holding it hostage, and "turning into grakken" seems to be a divisive opinion, as well.

I'm a bit confused by your choice to curtly denounce everything I said without contributing anything in return, though. That's the behavior of an arrogant prick, not someone trying to advance the discussion. So I'll refrain from engaging your comments any further.

You think you know things you don't. And I didn't think you deserved anymore but since you need help understanding.
No1 was holding it hostage. 2 aholes didn't help so the camp stood still. They could kill the camp on their own and if #1 loots it or not he is removed from the list. Nothing is held up.

You can't force anyone off the list. If you read this whole thread you would know that the attempted bullying to force him off was a failure and training someone will get you banned.

Thus proving you can't hostage or force this camp.

Comprehension is hard.

[Sagus]

I got the stone :)

Congrats! I enjoyed sifting through pages of drama and sad to see it end, but I'm glad it all worked out alright. :cool:

[Rooj]

I never tried to push you out of your spot. I just don't want to earn it for you. I want you to earn it. I hope you get your MS. I just take issue of it being borne off other's sweat and not your own.

I think this showcases why some tweaks need to be made. Level 40 -44 to list here, or 35 if in a group.

I don't think anything needs to be changed. This situation is going to be rare, and when the average playerbase gets into the mid 30s range, probably never going to hear about it again. It's going to be funny soon when real competition starts showing up and you can't get a stone because the list is so long. Yet if you had just helped the guy, which is in the spirit of Everquest, hell you might both have a stone right now. Instead, you make this forum post, which has done nothing but get you blacklisted because you're being greedy and selfish.

Then you try to say shit like "I never tried to push him out of his spot." You were invited to the camp, and when you got there, you were #2. You saw an opportunity since #1 couldn't solo the camp, so you left the group and refused to participate in the camp. If you want him to earn it, well guess what - the dude was there all day. You came there and immediately expected to be #1, so who is it that should be EARNING their right to loot? Not only did #1 try to find people to come to the camp, but he had already been there all day. What exactly did YOU do to contribute to earn #1 on the list? No one is going to believe anything other than you saw a chance to get an easy #1 spot on the list, hoping #1 would fall asleep soon.

Again, I think nothing needs to be changed, if this situation happens, it simply happens. If the mob just sits there and doesn't get killed, that's just what happens. Not going to happen often or for long. If you care so much about this rare situation happening, then DO YOUR PART IN HELPING and the situation DOESN'T EXIST.

[Veeshan31]

Well this was definitely a backfire thread. Way to make yourself known as scumbags, Grakken and Masterize

[Grakken]

Then you try to say shit like "I never tried to push him out of his spot." You were invited to the camp, and when you got there, you were #2. You saw an opportunity since #1 couldn't solo the camp, so you left the group and refused to participate in the camp.

You have it wrong. I gated from doing Rubi to check on manastone camp, as I do imbetween everything I do. It was down to 1 person, so I listed. The group invite came later. Then he mentions the mob is yellow and thinks we need more people to do it. It rubbed me the wrong way.

[Veeshan31]

You have it wrong. I gated from doing Rubi to check on manastone camp, as I do imbetween everything I do. It was down to 1 person, so I listed. The group invite came later. Then he mentions the mob is yellow and thinks we need more people to do it. It rubbed me the wrong way.

Your only making yourself look worse with every post.

[lituviel]

Rooj, you have it completely clear.
Maybe this situation will or won't happen again.
However if this could be tuned up in rules or a player consensus... This situation would surely never happen again.

Apart all the rage and stupidity in this post... We have people for tuning and people against.

Eq is about helping to access content/items/pixels ... But it is also about sharing when you do something together.
I don't mind listing as group ... we kinda did since we were 2 in party when I had mine to make sure I could hold the camp

That was my way to see this camp.
If it is wrong and many people don't understand or agree. Maybe yes it needs a little add-on in rules to make it clear.
Lately I often go on teal in european morning and see 3/4 people max. This situation can happen again

[Grakken]

Your only making yourself look worse with every post.

How?

[Veeshan31]

Rooj, you have it completely clear.
Maybe this situation will or won't happen again.
However if this could be tuned up in rules or a player consensus... This situation would surely never happen again.

Apart all the rage and stupidity in this post... We have people for tuning and people against.

Eq is about helping to access content/items/pixels ... But it is also about sharing when you do something together.
I don't mind listing as group ... we kinda did since we were 2 in party when I had mine to make sure I could hold the camp

That was my way to see this camp.
If it is wrong and many people don't understand or agree. Maybe yes it needs a little add-on in rules to make it clear.
Lately I often go on teal in european morning and see 3/4 people max. This situation can happen again

Your way is to be an ass and refuse to help another player. Normal people dont think like this. They would just help clear the placeholders. The problem isn't /list. The problem is you.

If you really did not want to help another player get a manastone, you would of just left the camp. The fact that you stayed and weren't going to help is what makes you a scumbag.

You even petitioned the #1 on the list to try and get him kicked off.

[lituviel]

Your way is to be an ass and refuse to help another player. Normal people dont think like this. They would just help clear the placeholders. The problem isn't /list. The problem is you.

Congratulations.
You're part of the stupidity I stated before.
Now move on and stop repeating stupid stuff.

[nicemace]

It's pretty simple. The list ensures there is a group that is able to kill the mob at the location. The only way the mob doesn't die is if people choose to be unhelpful dickheads. Work as a team and kill the mob. Pretty Simple. Or you can choose to be the unhelpful dickheads that you are and try bully people around.... which makes you look like dickheads...which is what everyone is telling you.

It's not charity, its simply grouping. Don't be dicks.

[Grakken]

Your way is to be an ass and refuse to help another player. Normal people dont think like this. They would just help clear the placeholders. The problem isn't /list. The problem is you.

If you really did not want to help another player get a manastone, you would of just left the camp. The fact that you stayed and weren't going to help is what makes you a huge asshole.

Normal people don't ask random strangers to spend their whole saturday helping them move, then people call you an Ahole for not helping a stranger.

Its weird to expect that type of charity from strangers.

[Veeshan31]

Normal people don't ask random strangers to spend their whole saturday helping them move, then people call you an Ahole for not helping a stranger.

Its weird to expect that type of charity from strangers.

Your an scumbag for staying and trying to get the #1 lister kicked off. If you didn't want to help, then leave the camp. The fact that you put in 3 petitions and tried to bully him off the list is why your a scumbag.

[Mercius]

Normal people don't ask random strangers to spend their whole saturday helping them move, then people call you an Ahole for not helping a stranger.

Its weird to expect that type of charity from strangers.

helping someone move = clicking a mob in everquest

:rolleyes:

[Grakken]

Your an scumbag for staying and trying to get the #1 lister kicked off. If you didn't want to help, then leave the camp. The fact that you put in 3 petitions and tried to bully him off the list is why your a scumbag.

I still have yet to see evidence how I bullied him. Not killing a mob for someone isn't bullying.

[Smaxx]

People should be getting laid more.....

[Veeshan31]

I still have yet to see evidence how I bullied him. Not killing a mob for someone isn't bullying.

Threatening and petitioning someone to try and get them kicked off the list IS bullying. Are you retarded? Did you miss the screenshots that were posted?

[nicemace]

I still have yet to see evidence how I bullied him. Not killing a mob for someone isn't bullying.

you mean coming to the forums to try shame someone into giving up their position isn't bullying? haha. you're cooked mate.

[Grakken]

Threatening and petitioning someone to try and get them kicked off the list IS bullying. Are you retarded? Did you miss the screenshots that were posted?

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I am Grakken. Please show me a threat.

[bubur]

Normal people don't ask random strangers to spend their whole saturday helping them move, then people call you an Ahole for not helping a stranger.

Its weird to expect that type of charity from strangers.

If I was a toy train hobbiest, I may ask a fellow enthusiast to help me move them or obtain a particularly rare one.

I mean... We're talking about emulated eq, its /list system, and manastone ph's, not toy trains or moving labor. The mental gymnastics are getting complicated. If you got there second, you'd only be helping yourself to help the guy who got there first, right?

[Veeshan31]

I think you're confusing me with someone else. I am Grakken. Please show me a threat.

First off, Im lumping you in with Masterize, but I'll concede that I did not see you say that you petitioned. Second, you made this forum post. That right there is an attempt to bully. Again, if you did not want to help, you could of just left the camp and moved on.

[Grakken]

you mean coming to the forums to try shame someone into giving up their position isn't bullying? haha. you're cooked mate.

I never said in my OP he should give up his position. He was holding slot 1 hostage. And said 35 is too low for list at this camp. I stated a problem. And a fix for the system.

If someone feels shame for facts, I can't control their feelings.

[nicemace]

I never said in my OP he should give up his position. He was holding slot 1 hostage. And said 35 is too low for list at this camp. I stated a problem. And a fix for the system.

If someone feels shame for facts, I can't control their feelings.

well he wasn't holding #1 hostage.

and you know exactly what you were doing lol.

[Veeshan31]

Grakken you are so far gone and instead of just admitting you were wrong and being a dick, your continuing to argue you were right. It just makes you look worse. Almost as bad as Masterize.

[Grakken]

If I was a toy train hobbiest, I may ask a fellow enthusiast to help me move them or obtain a particularly rare one.

I mean... We're talking about emulated eq, its /list system, and manastone ph's, not toy trains or moving labor. The mental gymnastics are getting complicated. If you got there second, you'd only be helping yourself to help the guy who got there first, right?

I see your point as far as the analogy muddys the water ( i think thats one of your points).

But continuing with your example, Id say its closer to him asking a fellow enthusiast - who he has never met - to buy him a rare train.

[bubur]

It's funny because when I got to 35 and went to the camp, I felt really lucky to start at slot 2.

I /listed, said "yo" and number 1 and I grouped up to pummel eyes together. It was pretty cool and normal. When he got his, he even stayed a few cycles until another guy got there to make sure I wouldn't have issues. Then I helped the next guy find the camp in between ph's. Very pleasant in general

Ppl here are describing some really unfortunate behavior. This is not the way homies

[unleashedd]

Nagafen raid time. Guild runs on DKP system. You know someone with more DKP than you is attending - do you attend?

THAT is the list system.

[Gustoo]

It's funny because when I got to 35 and went to the camp, I felt really lucky to start at slot 2.

I /listed, said "yo" and number 1 and I grouped up to pummel eyes together. It was pretty cool and normal. When he got his, he even stayed a few cycles until another guy got there to make sure I wouldn't have issues. Then I helped the next guy find the camp in between ph's. Very pleasant in general

Ppl here are describing some really unfortunate behavior. This is not the way homies

Is the list legitimately only 2 people long on some server right now?

[Grakken]

Grakken you are so far gone and instead of just admitting you were wrong and being a dick, your continuing to argue you were right. It just makes you look worse. Almost as bad as Masterize.

This has been a continuing theme I keep responding to. We fundamentally disagree on what the absence of charity is. You are saying if you don't so something nice for someone you are an Ahole. I believe charity is should be met with gratitude and lack of charity shouldn't be met with hostility.

Another example: someone comes up to me and asks me for a SoW. You think I am an Ahole if I don't SoW him. I disagree. I believe we have an entitlement problem in this community.

[bubur]

Is the list legitimately only 2 people long on some server right now?

My experience was like that last Sunday night on teal. This whole issue/thread seems to be rooted in the camp being kinda empty

Nice problem to have tbh, sad it is being blown way out of hand. Hope the staff ignores it

[nicemace]

This has been a continuing theme I keep responding to. We fundamentally disagree on what the absence of charity is. You are saying if you don't so something nice for someone you are an Ahole. I believe charity is should be met with gratitude and lack of charity shouldn't be met with hostility.

Another example: someone comes up to me and asks me for a SoW. You think I am an Ahole if I don't SoW him. I disagree. I believe we have an entitlement problem in this community.

its not entitlement. he's not under leveled. he is in the range that is acceptable for a group to be at that mob. the list ensures there are people there that can group... or you can do what you did and choose to be a dickhead and not contribute to the group.

but if you want to behave that way that is all good. just don't be shocked when people call you out on your shitty behavior.

its more of a dickhead problem than an entitlement problem.

[Veeshan31]

This has been a continuing theme I keep responding to. We fundamentally disagree on what the absence of charity is. You are saying if you don't so something nice for someone you are an Ahole. I believe charity is should be met with gratitude and lack of charity shouldn't be met with hostility.

Another example: someone comes up to me and asks me for a SoW. You think I am an Ahole if I don't SoW him. I disagree. I believe we have an entitlement problem in this community.

Again why is it so hard to understand. Its not the fact that you didnt help him. Its the fact that you stayed there and tried to bully your way to the #1 list spot. If you did not want to help then you should of left. If you were going to stay, then yes you should help. Its common sense. Everyone gets a drop quicker. That's how /list works. The only motivation to stay there and not help the #1 person would be your hoping to take his #1 spot. What other reason did you have for staying and not helping?

[Yoite]

At some level, my hope for the /list system was that it would force groups to form with pick-up members. e.g. that for these camps, at all times, all the people on the /list there are grouped, and helping each other, and as people get the item, they leave the group, so the next /list'ed can join.
.

ya this is what i excepted too. i dont understand the want to be so competitive in this game. you are not even competing for anything really, you are just being rude and mean to each other. that type of behavior will not lead to a happy life, whether your get your mana stone crack rock or not.

[bubur]

eq out here trying to help us all find the way to lasting happiness in our lives

[lituviel]

Grakken you are so far gone and instead of just admitting you were wrong and being a dick, your continuing to argue you were right. It just makes you look worse. Almost as bad as Masterize.

I was about to answer then I realized that you just have no clue what you're reading and obviously calling people is your way to go.
I feel sorry for you.

Oh and lol for : Veeshan31

Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 37

Not sure if you're new and lost-fan-of-dramas or old with a spoiled forum account that forced you to get rid of your past.

Both cases sucks really.

[aaezil]

You can argue this either way. The person at #1 cant kill mob. So should they lose their spot? Or are those that wont help, causing a zone disruption?

I would expect some tweaks are made to the /list functionality. The whole /list idea, is meant to not require staff to babysit these specific rare item spawns. And getting the rare item will still require putting in the time.

There is no /claim. Here is your new manastone. Grats me!

The intent is to make these camps manageable, and prevent from becoming non-stop shitshows.

Huh. Kind of funny how at least two of us brought this exact situation up to Rogean on the /list announcement page and he basically laughed at it saying its something that wouldn’t come up.

Whelp here we are friends

[kjs86z]

Consider Blue today!

[Grakken]

its not entitlement. he's not under leveled. he is in the range that is acceptable for a group to be at that mob. the list ensures there are people there that can group... or you can do what you did and choose to be a dickhead and not contribute to the group.

but if you want to behave that way that is all good. just don't be shocked when people call you out on your shitty behavior.

its more of a dickhead problem than an entitlement problem.

The group? You mean me and one other person? Had I just decided to log off, he would still be in the spot of having the PH up for 3 hours? At no point during any PH killing did I not participate.

I agree he is not under leveled based off of the rules. I never accused him of being entitled. The backlash of people attacking me (which was never slot 1) saying I have an obligation to kill the mob for him. That is entitlement.

All the list does is give anyone willing to wait a bite at the apple. Read my OP, I posted the specific problem and a remedy. The remedy was not (remove this guy from the list). The remedy was, "we need to tweak the list system". Forward thinking.

[TheRusty]

This is why you need pvp

Red's right there. With its glorious population of 16. Feel free to make it 17.

[Mirakk82]

Here's a thought: If someone is ahead of you on list and you don't want to help kill it, why not just GO DO SOMETHING ELSE. If he's sitting there by himself just clicking afk checks he's wasting his own time. If you really really just need the manastone or you'll start having convulsions if you don't have (another?) one in a week or less, then help him kill it.

/thread

[Grakken]

Its the fact that you stayed there and tried to bully your way to the #1 list spot.

Never bullied him. I didn't even talk to him.

If you were going to stay, then yes you should help.

Why? This is the entitlement I keep referring to. Why do I have an obligation to kill a mob for someone?

[Enme]

Enme/Harms

First Evil Eye killed on Green Beta was killed solo by my lvl 35 mage with a lvl 34 Air pet.

35 is not too low for Eye camp. My group started farming the Eye on Green Sunday night after the Friday launch. We were 7 high teens 20 level.

[Veeshan31]

Never bullied him. I didn't even talk to him.



Why? This is the entitlement I keep referring to. Why do I have an obligation to kill a mob for someone?

Why else would you stay at the camp? If you did not want to help, then leave. Go do something else.

If you want a manastone and your #2 in line, then you help #1 in line. Thats how it works. Your not obligated to help but you're only hurting yourself and the #1 by not helping. Do i really need to explain this to you?

[nicemace]

The group? You mean me and one other person? Had I just decided to log off, he would still be in the spot of having the PH up for 3 hours? At no point during any PH killing did I not participate.



yeah but that's not what happened is it. instead of grouping with him you tried to bully him out to take his spot. you knew full well what you were trying to achieve.

[Bakuh]

glad i got to see this, some people truly are trash lol

[turbosilk]

Never bullied him. I didn't even talk to him.



Why? This is the entitlement I keep referring to. Why do I have an obligation to kill a mob for someone?

It's called playing nice. I hear it may even be a policy. Something something golden rule too.

I helped an ench #2 on list kill the EE after I got my manastone because he needed a bit of time to have some others come help him. Why? Because my obligation is to play nice and let's show some humanity. I want a good reputation, these are people playing not npcs.

I'm not obligated to stop and help someone if their car breaks down in the middle of no where but what kind of person am I if I just drove on by without stopping to at least offer assistance?

[Natewest1987]

EE PH has been up for two hours now. Fateweaver has taken the camp hostage being slot 1, demanding others kill it for him.

Level 35 is too low for List. Or add rules, mandating slot 1 engage PH in a reasonable time frame. Two hours is not reasonable.

oh.my.god.

im usually not cool with name & shame, but, this deserves a bird pooping on him the next time he leaves his house. Also, this is probably a very unpopular opinion, but made me think... you should only be able to /list on the item if you can actually use it. Not sure what class he is, but just realized how dumb it would be to sit there for 30 hours and lose out to a warrior or rogue.

[Natewest1987]

It's called playing nice. I hear it may even be a policy. Something something golden rule too.

I helped an ench #2 on list kill the EE after I got my manastone because he needed a bit of time to have some others come help him. Why? Because my obligation is to play nice and let's show some humanity. I want a good reputation, these are people playing not npcs.

I'm not obligated to stop and help someone if their car breaks down in the middle of no where but what kind of person am I if I just drove on by without stopping to at least offer assistance?

A car breaking down in the middle of the road is NOT the same thing, unless its causing a massive traffic jam that will last for days.

[Grakken]

It's called playing nice. I hear it may even be a policy. Something something golden rule too.

So your interpretation of the play nice policy: Turbo, will you farm fine steel for me for 10 hours? If you don't you're not playing nice.



I'm not obligated to stop and help someone if their car breaks down in the middle of no where but what kind of person am I if I just drove on by without stopping to at least offer assistance?

This isn't a car broken down scenario. This is someone saying "Hey I can't afford coachella tickets. Buy them for me, or I won't let you go.

[Natewest1987]

Enme/Harms

First Evil Eye killed on Green Beta was killed solo by my lvl 35 mage with a lvl 34 Air pet.

35 is not too low for Eye camp. My group started farming the Eye on Green Sunday night after the Friday launch. We were 7 high teens 20 level.

omg. can we be friends

[Mendo]

This situation was brought up to Rogean when he first talked about /list. His reply was basically that if people want a manastone they will have to help kill it to get high on the list. Basically people would be idiots to not help kill the mob and push themselves higher on the list.

[turbosilk]

So your interpretation of the play nice policy: Turbo, will you farm fine steel for me for 10 hours? If you don't you're not playing nice.





This isn't a car broken down scenario. This is someone saying "Hey I can't afford coachella tickets. Buy them for me, or I won't let you go.

This is why I imagine you have social issues. People are trying to help you understand.

[Veeshan31]

This situation was brought up to Rogean when he first talked about /list. His reply was basically that if people want a manastone they will have to help kill it to get high on the list. Basically people would be idiots to not help kill the mob and push themselves higher on the list.

Never put it past a person to be an idiot. Grakken and Masterize are proving to not only be scumbags, but also idiots.

This will go down in p99 forumquest history as a great backfire thread.

[bubur]

You arrive at the list and find yourself at spot #2, do you a) wait in line like a ragweed pansy and do what you can to help move the que forward, or b) use every tool at your disposal to undermine the que, destroy the list and all competitors, and warp to the top spot like a golden haired chad lioness who don't settle for no sloppy seconds?

[Rooj]

Rooj, you have it completely clear.
Maybe this situation will or won't happen again.
However if this could be tuned up in rules or a player consensus... This situation would surely never happen again.

That's just it. The frequency of the issue doesn't warrant a forum post, a petition, any changes, or any staff intervention whatsoever. The system is working perfectly. There's just no sense in the staff wasting any of their time on something that is hardly ever going to happen, especially since what is happening isn't even that big of a deal in the first place.

[strawman]

is the placeholder still sitting there alive while everyone bickers on the forums or did something happen in the 20 pages of this thread i didn't read

[Zal22]

Guy got his stone regardless. OP and friend end up looking like assholes.

Where is that guy that puts backfire threads in his sig?

[Legidias]

Can't believe thread is rated 1 star. Clearly this is 5 star backfire entertainment (move to RnF tho)

[WaffleztheAndal]

Guy got his stone regardless. OP and friend end up looking like assholes.

Where is that guy that puts backfire threads in his sig?

All three parties got dog piled pretty hard in this thread.

[welly321]

Wow what a backfire thread! Got to love when socially retarded people hamstring themselves.

If I was a guild leader of Grakken or Masterize, they would be swiftly kicked out.

[nyclin]

normal person perspective: there's someone else here, and they're #1 on the list. due to the way /list works, I'm gonna have to help if I want a chance at this item, or I can just go do something else.

crazy person perspective: there's another person here, I'm going to stomp my feet and demand that they remove themselves from the list because obviously I should be #1, because I deserve the item more than the person that was waiting at the camp for longer than me. I'm also going to petition them and post about it on the forums. when people try to point out that I'm kind of being a dick, I'm going to double down and call the person at #1 entitled.

[Fammaden]

This situation was brought up to Rogean when he first talked about /list. His reply was basically that if people want a manastone they will have to help kill it to get high on the list. Basically people would be idiots to not help kill the mob and push themselves higher on the list.

Well, he got the bolded part right about the playerbase at least.

[welly321]

All three parties got dog piled pretty hard in this thread.

No, the OP was the one who was wrong. I think we have clearly established that now.

[WaffleztheAndal]

normal person perspective: there's someone else here, and they're #1 on the list. due to the way /list works, I'm gonna have to help if I want a chance at this item, or I can just go do something else.

crazy person perspective: there's another person here, I'm going to stomp my feet and demand that they remove themselves from the list because obviously I should be #1, because I deserve the item more than the person that was waiting at the camp for longer than me. I'm also going to petition them and post about it on the forums. when people try to point out that I'm kind of being a dick, I'm going to double down and call the person at #1 entitled.

Corvax is just as bad as the other two. He showed up to a camp he can’t handle and expects the charity of others to get him his item.

[welly321]

Corvax is just as bad as the other two. He showed up to a camp he can’t handle and expects the charity of others to get him his item.

Oh really? From what I have seen from his chat transcripts, he had been at the camp helping others get their stones for over 10 hours. Then Grakken joined him and refused to help kill the PH/Eye. I didnt see him expecting anything. He simply refused to concede his #1 spot on the list. Would you, after helping others for 10 hours?

[nectarprime]

Grakken should stop being a little baby and just help kill the ph. It's not rocket science - the more kills happen, the better the chance everyone gets the drop.

[deadlycupcakez]

am curious to know the current status of this list 12 hours later -- DID NOT READ 22 pages of Bluebie BS

edit: god i get so much joy of these players suffering the closest thing to pvp they can get on this server.. when their rule lawyering bites back omg its like Marie Kondo for my EQ problem

[zodium]

Corvax is just as bad as the other two. He showed up to a camp he can’t handle and expects the charity of others to get him his item.

Correct, people should only help each other out when every individual person can do the job themselves.

[welly321]

Correct, people should only help each other out when every individual person can do the job themselves.

haha this was gold. Also i'm pretty sure WaffleztheAndhal = Grakken

[Magerin]

And to think Fateweaver was a douch bag who KS'd me in Kithicor forest. That assmonkey shoulda been suspended for that but instead the GM gave him the camp. Its amazing how bad behavior seems to be rewarded on this server.

[welly321]

And to think Fateweaver was a douch bag who KS'd me in Kithicor forest. That assmonkey shoulda been suspended for that but instead the GM gave him the camp. Its amazing how bad behavior seems to be rewarded on this server.

I think you missed the memo. This is a backfire thread.

[Modus]

https://i.imgur.com/il2tMOK.png
.

I was in Cazic-Thule at the time of the server crash - alone.

Grakken claimed he was "in the middle of a rubicite named" during the crash.

I can confirm this is a lie.

What else is he hiding?!

[Magerin]

They should kick up the list mini to 40 or 45, knowing most / some classes cant solo the camp they would need the help of others. I found it confusing to why i was asked to help the person ahead of me clear the Jboots camp when with out he he would dead and id have the camp. There should be a 10 min lock out that if you dont kill the PH within the same amount a normal AFK Check is done, the #1 person should be removed from the list. That would solve this problem of people who SHOULDNT BE camping from camping it and holding the camp this way.

[welly321]

I was in Cazic-Thule at the time of the server crash - alone.

Grakken claimed he was "in the middle of a rubicite named" during the crash.

I can confirm this is a lie.

What else is he hiding?!

I dont think Grakken is hiding anything. He has been pretty open about his stupidity and childish behavior.

My guess is that him "being in the middle of a rubicite named" was just his socially inept self trying to sound cool to elf friends.

[Old_PVP]

This is why you need pvp

Hear, Hear.

Bluebies will never understand.

From what I skimmed... OP sounds reasonable...Grakken, a dick. PVP would have fixed her real good though.

[nectarprime]

They should kick up the list mini to 40 or 45, knowing most / some classes cant solo the camp they would need the help of others. I found it confusing to why i was asked to help the person ahead of me clear the Jboots camp when with out he he would dead and id have the camp. There should be a 10 min lock out that if you dont kill the PH within the same amount a normal AFK Check is done, the #1 person should be removed from the list. That would solve this problem of people who SHOULDNT BE camping from camping it and holding the camp this way.

lol no, how about you just be a non shit human

[zodium]

They should kick up the list mini to 40 or 45, knowing most / some classes cant solo the camp they would need the help of others. I found it confusing to why i was asked to help the person ahead of me clear the Jboots camp when with out he he would dead and id have the camp. There should be a 10 min lock out that if you dont kill the PH within the same amount a normal AFK Check is done, the #1 person should be removed from the list. That would solve this problem of people who SHOULDNT BE camping from camping it and holding the camp this way.

lol this is like badperson.txt

[zodium]

I don't understand why I should have to help people who need my help when it would be to my advantage simply to let them die. Unethical!

[zodium]

And what's up with all the homeless people sleeping in the EC tunnel? I'm all for helping the poor, but I pay my taxes and I shouldn't have to see that kind of thing on my way to work. Someone should do something!

[Legidias]

Imagine going to a hospital and telling everyone waiting for a kidney / liver transplant in front of you that they can't afford it themselves and have to rely on government / insurance to get it, so they should just get out of line.

[heyokah]

I was in Cazic-Thule at the time of the server crash - alone.

Grakken claimed he was "in the middle of a rubicite named" during the crash.

I can confirm this is a lie.

What else is he hiding?!
Not reading the whole thread, but /exposed

[Sarkhan]

I was in Cazic-Thule at the time of the server crash - alone.

Grakken claimed he was "in the middle of a rubicite named" during the crash.

I can confirm this is a lie.

What else is he hiding?!

sounds like Grakken saw server crash and saw a great opportunity to a quick way to top of the list.

Fate's comrade straight up said he'd go to bed if they got a healer so Grakken joined group. Sabotage.
After the group left he noticed another opportunity seeing the guy would be screwed solo he decided he could strongarm his way to #1 and skip a possible 10 hours of waiting. I mean, screw helping people.

Every bit of him from showing up to camp to joining group was all opportunities he saw at getting quick on list. Grakken plays to win, not to make friends.

This whole thread though is another thing entirely and admittedly I came with pitchfork raised and torches burning but seeing the screenshots changed everything. Backfire-thread is 10/10 entertainment and filled my lunch breaks at work.

[Grakken]

sounds like Grakken saw server crash and saw a great opportunity to a quick way to top of the list.

Fate's comrade straight up said he'd go to bed if they got a healer so Grakken joined group. Sabotage.
After the group left he noticed another opportunity seeing the guy would be screwed solo he decided he could strongarm his way to #1 and skip a possible 10 hours of waiting. I mean, screw helping people.

Every bit of him from showing up to camp to joining group was all opportunities he saw at getting quick on list. Grakken plays to win, not to make friends.

This whole thread though is another thing entirely and admittedly I came with pitchfork raised and torches burning but seeing the screenshots changed everything. Backfire-thread is 10/10 entertainment and filled my lunch breaks at work.

This is wrong on many counts. Looks at his screenshots again. The party conversation happened before I was part of the group. I left cazic 10 mins after servers came up. Was gonna log out when I saw only one in list. So I listed, I was invited to group minutes later.

[Yoite]

sounds like Grakken saw server crash and saw a great opportunity to a quick way to top of the list.

Fate's comrade straight up said he'd go to bed if they got a healer so Grakken joined group. Sabotage.
After the group left he noticed another opportunity seeing the guy would be screwed solo he decided he could strongarm his way to #1 and skip a possible 10 hours of waiting. I mean, screw helping people.

Every bit of him from showing up to camp to joining group was all opportunities he saw at getting quick on list. Grakken plays to win, not to make friends.

This whole thread though is another thing entirely and admittedly I came with pitchfork raised and torches burning but seeing the screenshots changed everything. Backfire-thread is 10/10 entertainment and filled my lunch breaks at work.

yup pretty much...
thats fucked up man

[rebeccablack]

its been a while since we had a good old fashioned backfire thread

[Crovax]

I see your point as far as the analogy muddys the water ( i think thats one of your points).

But continuing with your example, Id say its closer to him asking a fellow enthusiast - who he has never met - to buy him a rare train.

That isn't a fair analogy. I never asked you to get me anything. You said you weren't going to help and wanted me to do it solo. I never once said, "You need to help me". I never once said, "Please help me". Nothing remotely close to that.

You keep trying to imply that is the the case but it is an alright lie.

It's more like we are train enthusiast and there is a public event where people are getting a rare train if they show up and get a ticket. For each person who got a ticket. And I got there before you. But because you wanted to be first you threw a tantrum and started screaming at the top of your lungs that you wanted your train first, and then everyone started looking at you like, "Why is this grown adult throwing a tantrum?"

That's the situation. I /listed. I put in the hours and the work. I never once asked you to help me in anyway after you suggested I should solo. I didn't complain in chat. I didn't start crying in the forums.

I didn't start crying to my friends and try to get them to push you off. I think I have been as cordial as possible all things considered.

[Modus]

Remember when Boromir joined the Fellowship of the Rings and started off as good-guy human pally but then was tempted by the power of the One Ring and overcome by greed and lust for power, which caused him to betray and deceive his pals and ultimately destroy himself and his reputation forever?

This is kinda like that.

[Grakken]

That isn't a fair analogy. I never asked you to get me anything. You said you weren't going to help and wanted me to do it solo. I never once said, "You need to help me". I never once said, "Please help me". Nothing remotely close to that.

You keep trying to imply that is the the case but it is an alright lie.


I never meant to imply you did. Most of those references were debating other's point of view of a hypothetical, not your actions. But after re-reading my OP, you're right I did imply with the word "demanding". I should have said "the situation demanded."

I apologize for that misrepresentation. It wasn't my intention. But the core problem of OP still exists. And, I'd like to see some changes to future /lists.

[Grakken]

. I think I have been as cordial as possible all things considered.

I agree, and have said as much in other posts and to people talking to me in tells.

[TheRusty]

I never meant to imply you did. Most of those references were debating other's point of view of a hypothetical, not your actions. But after re-reading my OP, you're right I did imply with the word "demanding". I should have said "the situation demanded."

I apologize for that misrepresentation. It wasn't my intention. But the core problem of OP still exists. And, I'd like to see some changes to future /lists.

The core problem of the OP is that you can't figure out that the PH would die if you grouped with the dude and killed it, thus expediting the odds of both of you getting a manastone at some point.

"BWUR UHR DURR WHY SHOULD I HELP?!" - because you want the camp and that's the best way to get it. You're being a damn self-defeating fool out of what, some sort of weird pride thing? Some Randian Superman fantasy? Get over it, kill the mob, and it'll respawn faster

[beeshma_nameless]

Imagine going to a hospital and telling everyone waiting for a kidney / liver transplant in front of you that they can't afford it themselves and have to rely on government / insurance to get it, so they should just get out of line.

Imagine posting a completely unrelated analogy for a ManaStone camp in everquest and failing to realize the disconnect in even thinking this is apt! :)

I do think for some people here getting the mana stone is as important (or more?) thank getting a lifesaving kidney :(

[Albane]

Just imagine how bad the /list will be once everyone hits 35, haha...OMG, OMG, OMG

I can see all the servers shutting down, literally

The people who are not level 35 yet, do not have the time to camp a 12 hour camp. It will continue to go to the poop sockers who are all level 35+ already.

[ZiggyTheMuss]

Imagine going to a hospital and telling everyone waiting for a kidney / liver transplant in front of you that they can't afford it themselves and have to rely on government / insurance to get it, so they should just get out of line.

Because that's a totally reasonable analogy... :rolleyes:

I think everyone involved in this situation was a shitbag. The list was created to cut down on CSR tickets for the staff. It was NOT created to turn these rare camps into some kind of black friday bullshit where all you have to do is stand in line and claim your prize.

You guys are assholes for not helping him and keeping the line moving.

He was an entitled shitbag for wanting strangers to camp an item for him.

The list MUST be tweaked to avoid people exploiting it like this. I agree that the minimum level needs to be raised. To be on the list you should be capable of SOLOING what you are camping. You know, like how normal camps work?

[gkmarino]

What if you have to use the bathroom? How do you not fail the AFK check?

[nyclin]

What if you have to use the bathroom? How do you not fail the AFK check?

teamviewer on your phone and hope you can muddle through it before you time out

[Kornaki]

The list MUST be tweaked to avoid people exploiting it like this. I agree that the minimum level needs to be raised. To be on the list you should be capable of SOLOING what you are camping. You know, like how normal camps work?

I once played a game where camps worked by people grouping together to kill stuff, even if they weren't first in line for the loot. You may have heard about it, is called classic eq.

[Modwolf]

What if you have to use the bathroom? How do you not fail the AFK check?

Laptop

[Crovax]

oh.my.god.

im usually not cool with name & shame, but, this deserves a bird pooping on him the next time he leaves his house. Also, this is probably a very unpopular opinion, but made me think... you should only be able to /list on the item if you can actually use it. Not sure what class he is, but just realized how dumb it would be to sit there for 30 hours and lose out to a warrior or rogue.

To put it in context. I did not ever demand anyone kill anything. You can see screen shots of the chat logs. I was in a party with two other people. Our healer got the mana stone and said he would stay until another healer showed up. Grakken showed up.

Our mage was logging but said he would stay until another showed up so the group could continue. Grakken joined the party. Harms the mage left the party. Grakken then left the party and told me to solo it or leave.

He wanted that #1 slot. The moment his friend Masterize (Monk) and a druid show up I asked if they wanted to party for the camp (Again you can check screenshots of the chat at the start of the thread). They said no that I was too weak and need to leve. Masterize then said he was going to do a /petition x3 and post in the forums. Masterize didn't post in the forums though Grakken did.

Again the chat logs are there. I never demanded anything from them. I offered to do with each person there. They tried to refuse and hoped I would log out but I had already been at that camp since 4/5am in the morning and it was around midnight when this happened (Or shortly after the server crashed).

So no. I didn't feel entitled to them helping. After each of them refused to help I disengaged in chat. I didn't come to the forums and cry about it. I didn't do a /petition demanding they engage or leave /list.

The moment a friendly mage and druid duo showed up and started fighting it I immediately re-engaged in fighting just like I would have if Grakken himself started fighting. And after that moment everything was back to normal camp wise.

Never held a camp hostage. Someone tried to push me off the /list and failed drastically.

[deadlycupcakez]

would still love to know the current status of this camp - it doesnt appear that sleep happened, so is this list still on pause?