Green99 pro strats and early game goals

[Squire]

Green 99 is coming. You won't have that precious fungi, no more running to the EC tunnels for buffs or to try to push bones and silk for crucial early cash. What are some early quests, techniques, strategies you do on a fresh EQ server? What are some early goals and gear you try to achieve? What is on your fresh start checklist? Share your strats, goals, tips, and tricks below!

For me first thing I like to run to quest NPCs who give you a bag, such as

https://wiki.project1999.com/Crush_the_Undead
https://wiki.project1999.com/Skeleton_Killing
https://wiki.project1999.com/The_Cigar
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ice_Goblin_Beads
https://wiki.project1999.com/Air_Tight_Box_Quest

Until you can get some backpacks of your own

[Tethler]

My pro strat is to wait 2 months then start so I can level with buffs from the EC tunnel.

[aaezil]

Eq is a journey not a destination.

[Widan]

1-6 on mail quests
6-8 or 9 bone chips quest

Now you've got 30-40pp and can buy all spells and start killing mobs.

[White_knight]

Pro strat: if you think you're getting a manastone and DE mask - you're not ....unless you plan to play 20 hrs a day and are part of the group that gets the camps on lock down.

10 practically homeless bald men will trade those camps between each other.

Sorry to be the logical rational response.

[Tethler]

Pro strat: if you think you're getting a manastone and DE mask - you're not ....unless you plan to play 20 hrs a day and are part of the group that gets the camps on lock down.

10 practically homeless bald men will trade those camps between each other.

Sorry to be the logical rational response.

This. I wasn't actually planning to even roll a character on green, but my brother wants me to make a character with him. /sigh

[Quinas]

This. I wasn't actually planning to even roll a character on green, but my brother wants me to make a character with him. /sigh

https://i.imgur.com/v18ISeG.png

[Osprey39]

Pro strat: if you think you're getting a manastone and DE mask - you're not ....unless you plan to play 20 hrs a day and are part of the group that gets the camps on lock down.

10 practically homeless bald men will trade those camps between each other.

Sorry to be the logical rational response.

I just don't get the obsession people have with those 2 items. I mean at least the mana stone is useful for awhile but the mask? It's a pure vanity item. The fact that people will be camping those things around the clock does not compute to me.

[Legidias]

>Not making a mage coalition to bum rush content

Illusion mask is pimp item to use even way past velious for bragging rights on your DE monk.

Manastone has limited usability in old world only, and basically is just for wiz / druid

[joppykid]

I just don't get the obsession people have with those 2 items. I mean at least the mana stone is useful for awhile but the mask? It's a pure vanity item. The fact that people will be camping those things around the clock does not compute to me.

It allows you to go into some zones you would normally be KoS in (OT, Neriak to name a few) so it is more than just a vanity item.

[DromalPhrenia]

I just don't get the obsession people have with those 2 items. I mean at least the mana stone is useful for awhile but the mask? It's a pure vanity item. The fact that people will be camping those things around the clock does not compute to me.
It's a (not indoor restricted, unlimited charge) shrink item for large races. For small races, it lets them avoid having to jump certain small ledges/steps and allows them to make certain jumps they can't otherwise make.

And Fashion Quest is the true endgame, with DE fashion being top tier. Plus you get to be a DE Monk, DE Ranger, DE Shaman, DE Druid, DE Paladin...

[mcoy]

https://i.imgur.com/v18ISeG.png

Beat me to it.

-Mcoy

[Yasi]

Also, the Guise coolness factor will not even come close to the coolness factor it had the good old times or on this server. On blue99, it is cool because it hasn't been dropping for ages, most ppl who have it stopped playing and if you have one now, you're prolly one of a few active players with Guise.

On other classic server, everyone and their mom camps the mask and everyone and their mom has the mask. Clicking your DE elf mask on green99 will make u as cool as juggling around three pairs of bone chips.

[Axlrose]

The ideal troll effort from Rogean would be to have them removed from the game at the very beginning, but make people think they are within the game.

Reading all these green server threads and people's assumptions of this and that might just be in for a rude surprise.

[Thugnuts]

Share your strats, goals, tips, and tricks below!


- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

- I just "broke up" with my last RL friend. Known the guy for twenty years but if I didn't let him go, I know he'd just be communicating with me and trying to hang out and stuff while I'm playing. Also no girlfriend, because I'm red pilled to the max and don't want to lower my standards.

- Been stocking up on tuna fish pouches and boxes of ritz crackers for those late camp munchie attacks. I'm also thinking about moving my refrigerator into my bedroom and stocking it with 100% ready-to-eat food items that way I never have to cook or do dishes.

- I'm also retraining my body to become comfortable with a polyphasic sleep cycle. That basically means I'll take like one 2 hour nap per day, and offset that with short micro naps of like 20-35 minutes at a time, depending on what I'm camping. I've also secured a small supply of caffeine pills to help me when I absolutely can't sleep at all. And I mean real caffeine pills, manufactured by the Soviet Union specifically for long-term storage in case of protracted warfare. Sweet deal out of Ukraine, meant to hit you like a bolt of lightning.

- Main goals are to create the top raiding/farming guild on Green and maintain complete dominance of the raid scene for the entire classic timeline. Think TMO and Aftermath, but more hostile and edgy and driven by the will to conquer.

[caveslug]

Green 99 is coming. You won't have that precious fungi, no more running to the EC tunnels for buffs or to try to push bones and silk for crucial early cash. What are some early quests, techniques, strategies you do on a fresh EQ server? What are some early goals and gear you try to achieve? What is on your fresh start checklist? Share your strats, goals, tips, and tricks below!


Gasp people will have to /group, instead of soloing all the content in twink gear.

[Dugface]

- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

- I just "broke up" with my last RL friend. Known the guy for twenty years but if I didn't let him go, I know he'd just be communicating with me and trying to hang out and stuff while I'm playing. Also no girlfriend, because I'm red pilled to the max and don't want to lower my standards.

- Been stocking up on tuna fish pouches and boxes of ritz crackers for those late camp munchie attacks. I'm also thinking about moving my refrigerator into my bedroom and stocking it with 100% ready-to-eat food items that way I never have to cook or do dishes.

- I'm also retraining my body to become comfortable with a polyphasic sleep cycle. That basically means I'll take like one 2 hour nap per day, and offset that with short micro naps of like 20-35 minutes at a time, depending on what I'm camping. I've also secured a small supply of caffeine pills to help me when I absolutely can't sleep at all. And I mean real caffeine pills, manufactured by the Soviet Union specifically for long-term storage in case of protracted warfare. Sweet deal out of Ukraine, meant to hit you like a bolt of lightning.

- Main goals are to create the top raiding/farming guild on Green and maintain complete dominance of the raid scene for the entire classic timeline. Think TMO and Aftermath, but more hostile and edgy and driven by the will to conquer.

All valid suggestions.

[spoof2424]

Green 99 is coming. You won't have that precious fungi, no more running to the EC tunnels for buffs or to try to push bones and silk for crucial early cash. What are some early quests, techniques, strategies you do on a fresh EQ server? What are some early goals and gear you try to achieve? What is on your fresh start checklist? Share your strats, goals, tips, and tricks below!

For me first thing I like to run to quest NPCs who give you a bag, such as

https://wiki.project1999.com/Crush_the_Undead
https://wiki.project1999.com/Skeleton_Killing
https://wiki.project1999.com/The_Cigar
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ice_Goblin_Beads
https://wiki.project1999.com/Air_Tight_Box_Quest

Until you can get some backpacks of your own

awesome posts. going to get the scoop on all of these bag quests at once on the double

[Nuggie]

I like your ambition Thugnuts. Also the level of detail to your plans.

[Axlrose]

I like your ambition Thugnuts. Also the level of detail to your plans.
There is only one thing wrong with Thugnuts's list - twenty years ago, he would have been playing EverQuest when it first came out and would not have had any friends back then either! :p

[Lionsfan616]

My pro strat is not get divorced over a game.

I'll update you guys in December.

[Rang]

- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

- I just "broke up" with my last RL friend. Known the guy for twenty years but if I didn't let him go, I know he'd just be communicating with me and trying to hang out and stuff while I'm playing. Also no girlfriend, because I'm red pilled to the max and don't want to lower my standards.

- Been stocking up on tuna fish pouches and boxes of ritz crackers for those late camp munchie attacks. I'm also thinking about moving my refrigerator into my bedroom and stocking it with 100% ready-to-eat food items that way I never have to cook or do dishes.

- I'm also retraining my body to become comfortable with a polyphasic sleep cycle. That basically means I'll take like one 2 hour nap per day, and offset that with short micro naps of like 20-35 minutes at a time, depending on what I'm camping. I've also secured a small supply of caffeine pills to help me when I absolutely can't sleep at all. And I mean real caffeine pills, manufactured by the Soviet Union specifically for long-term storage in case of protracted warfare. Sweet deal out of Ukraine, meant to hit you like a bolt of lightning.

- Main goals are to create the top raiding/farming guild on Green and maintain complete dominance of the raid scene for the entire classic timeline. Think TMO and Aftermath, but more hostile and edgy and driven by the will to conquer.

too real

[Osprey39]

>Not making a mage coalition to bum rush content

Illusion mask is pimp item to use even way past velious for bragging rights on your DE monk.

Manastone has limited usability in old world only, and basically is just for wiz / druid

You're not a DE monk. You're a human monk with an illusion mask. Everyone knows there are no true dark elf monks.

It allows you to go into some zones you would normally be KoS in (OT, Neriak to name a few) so it is more than just a vanity item.

Nobody that can't go there by default HAS to go to either of those places though. Tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of EQ characters have gone their entire lifespans without setting foot in either place. Camping an item for days so you can go use a bank you don't really need to use is crazy.

It's a (not indoor restricted, unlimited charge) shrink item for large races. For small races, it lets them avoid having to jump certain small ledges/steps and allows them to make certain jumps they can't otherwise make.

And Fashion Quest is the true endgame, with DE fashion being top tier. Plus you get to be a DE Monk, DE Ranger, DE Shaman, DE Druid, DE Paladin...

Again, you are not a DE monk, ranger or paladin. You are a human, wood elf or high elf wearing an illusion mask. Everyone else knows there are no dark elf pallies so they aren't scratching their heads wondering how you managed to make one. They know you are wearing the damn mask.

Honestly, these excuses are pretty weak. Why don't you just admit you have OCD and be done with it?

[DromalPhrenia]

Also, the Guise coolness factor will not even come close to the coolness factor it had the good old times or on this server. On blue99, it is cool because it hasn't been dropping for ages, most ppl who have it stopped playing and if you have one now, you're prolly one of a few active players with Guise.

On other classic server, everyone and their mom camps the mask and everyone and their mom has the mask. Clicking your DE elf mask on green99 will make u as cool as juggling around three pairs of bone chips.
lol if you think you're getting a guise on green as me and my poopsock pro farm crew cycle endless alts through the camp, im gonna have guises on DE's just to keep you guessing as to my real race

[DromalPhrenia]

Again, you are not a DE monk, ranger or paladin. You are a human, wood elf or high elf wearing an illusion mask. Everyone else knows there are no dark elf pallies so they aren't scratching their heads wondering how you managed to make one. They know you are wearing the damn mask.

Uh, the goal isn't to trick people into thinking I somehow made a DE Pally. It's that a Dark Elf Paladin with a flaming sword looks a billion times cooler than a human or dwarf or whatever.

And if you have a guise, you WANT everyone to know you have a guise, because its a status symbol. I wouldn't want a guise on a class that can be a dark elf, except for small races and large races for the other reason I mentioned (free shrink / not getting blocked by certain geometry)

[Osprey39]

Uh, the goal isn't to trick people into thinking I somehow made a DE Pally. It's that a Dark Elf Paladin with a flaming sword looks a billion times cooler than a human or dwarf or whatever.

And if you have a guise, you WANT everyone to know you have a guise, because its a status symbol. I wouldn't want a guise on a class that can be a dark elf, except for small races and large races for the other reason I mentioned (free shrink / not getting blocked by certain geometry)

Sorry to break it to you but no sane person gives 2 shits that you have a guise bud. You're going on about having an item on a emulator server for a 20 year old game like it's a big deal. The only status that thing is a symbol of is unemployment.

[Squire]

You're not a DE monk. You're a human monk with an illusion mask. Everyone knows there are no true dark elf monks.



Nobody that can't go there by default HAS to go to either of those places though. Tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of EQ characters have gone their entire lifespans without setting foot in either place. Camping an item for days so you can go use a bank you don't really need to use is crazy.



Again, you are not a DE monk, ranger or paladin. You are a human, wood elf or high elf wearing an illusion mask. Everyone else knows there are no dark elf pallies so they aren't scratching their heads wondering how you managed to make one. They know you are wearing the damn mask.

Honestly, these excuses are pretty weak. Why don't you just admit you have OCD and be done with it?

God I bet you're a fun guy at parties.

[Osprey39]

God I bet you're a fun guy at parties.

Because I think getting excited over some vanity item in a 20 year old game is stupid? Ok man, whatever you want to think...

[Crede]

Uh, the goal isn't to trick people into thinking I somehow made a DE Pally. It's that a Dark Elf Paladin with a flaming sword looks a billion times cooler than a human or dwarf or whatever.

Underrated post.

If my epic’d pally had a guise, he’d likely be 60 by now, instead of stuck at 51 for a year.

[loramin]

unless you plan to play 20 hrs a day and are part of the group that gets the camps on lock down.

I 100% agree that these items will be a shit show and that they will be incredibly hard to get, but I haven't given up hope that you're wrong about the "lock down" part. Locking down camps just goes against so much of both what this server is about ('merit"-ocracy) and what live was about (read the old GM/Guide handbooks and then try to tell me with a straight face that you could lock a camp down in classic ... if the GMs on your server were doing their job properly at least).

I haven't given up hope that everyone behind Project 1999 won't just throw in the towel because "it's only a few items", and that they will change the server rules to "keep Green classic" (and prevent lock downs) before it is released.

[Walex]

Because I think getting excited over some vanity item in a 20 year old game is stupid? Ok man, whatever you want to think...

Plays 20-year-old game. Doesn't think it's stupid.

Thinks how you play 20-year-old game is stupid.

[Frug]

God I bet you're a fun guy at parties.

He knows more about EQ than a lot of people.... and you think he goes to parties? Good one.

[Erati]

Farm PGTs

[Nuggie]

I think some dudes here are over looking the functionality of a barb sham having a guise. Making that trip for spells sucks.

[Neach]

let me tell you the best strat for green99 community, play world of Warcraft this fall if you know whats good for you....

[matticas]

Eq is a journey not a destination.

I love thinking of EQ this way. <3

[Zekayy]

I 100% agree that these items will be a shit show and that they will be incredibly hard to get, but I haven't given up hope that you're wrong about the "lock down" part. Locking down camps just goes against so much of both what this server is about ('merit"-ocracy) and what live was about (read the old GM/Guide handbooks and then try to tell me with a straight face that you could lock a camp down in classic ... if the GMs on your server were doing their job properly at least).

I haven't given up hope that everyone behind Project 1999 won't just throw in the towel because "it's only a few items", and that they will change the server rules to "keep Green classic" (and prevent lock downs) before it is released.

Lol then you havent experienced chardok AE/AOE they would hold a list people would put their friends on the list over the next person that asked........

[kotton05]

I just don't get the obsession people have with those 2 items. I mean at least the mana stone is useful for awhile but the mask? It's a pure vanity item. The fact that people will be camping those things around the clock does not compute to me.

Ultra vision, junk buff, faction change on some servers... great for large races...

[loramin]

Lol then you havent experienced chardok AE/AOE they would hold a list people would put their friends on the list over the next person that asked........

I've been playing here for at least half a decade now, so I very much remember the Chardok AoE days :) (or should that be a :mad:?)

But I wasn't not talking about the players: players will do any assholish thing necessary to get their pixels, IF it's in the rules (a Guise is no good if your account is banned).

I was talking about the staff, who set the rules. I still have hope they'll make a modification (it wouldn't take a huge one) to the play nice policies to prevent lockdowns, both because they go against what every top-end guild member on this server claims they want ("competition") and against everything the classic Play Nice Policy stood for (and again, also the classic GM guidebook itself, which is out there on the web for any interested parties to read).

[Fifield]

Prostrat: pretty common knowledge but play an ench or necro if you wanna farm lower guk all day and make cash. If thats what your into

Goals: My personal goal is to reach lvl 50 on a necro before kunark and reunite with some old friends. Could care less about mana stones or guises.

That bag post was awesome ty, i was thinking of the najena ones that have the 25% WR too

[Gozuk]

You're not a DE monk. You're a human monk with an illusion mask. Everyone knows there are no true dark elf monks.

Again, you are not a DE monk, ranger or paladin. You are a human, wood elf or high elf wearing an illusion mask. Everyone else knows there are no dark elf pallies so they aren't scratching their heads wondering how you managed to make one. They know you are wearing the damn mask.

This guy is awesome lol. Please post more often

[mattydef]

I want a guise specifically to trick other players into thinking i'm an actual dark elf monk. How cool would that be? I would get so many tells from people like "wow man how did you make a dark elf monk? You are so awesome!".

[Jibartik]

Sorry to break it to you but no sane person gives 2 shits that you have a guise bud.

I feel this way about 100% of your posts! :cool: Sorry you're all ready mad that we will have guises and you wont because of play time lol

[Jibartik]

I want a guise specifically to trick other players into thinking i'm an actual dark elf monk. How cool would that be? I would get so many tells from people like "wow man how did you make a dark elf monk? You are so awesome!".

wait.. in classic you can roll a dark elf monk??

[Keza]

My first goal is to unlock meditate without losing my sanity. My only pro strat is never trying any of the auto-chess clones until green comes out in the hopes that it can entertain me while standing there waiting for my hp/mp to regen and that I don't get bored of it before I get meditate.

Second goal - Getting in at least one fight because I accidentally tagged a mob that someone I couldn't see was about to melee.

Third goal - Bickering in ooc with extremely intelligent individuals who need to tell everyone that they will never get a MS/guise, thus crushing the dreams of the stupid casuals who only play green to fulfill their lifelong goal of getting these mythical world-changing items by playing 2-4 hours per week.

Fourth goal - Taking part in the biomass of noobs graveyard rushing a faerie royal guard because it's high level and might have ph@t lewtz.

Fifth goal - Joining a casual super-guild in order to get groups more easily and make friends, only to end up hating them all slightly less than the leadership that will use a loot council that suspiciously benefits officers more than the rest.

Final goal - Unleashing my full potential as an Iksar.

[Seungkyu]

=.

Oh man this is way too accurate.

Anyone have a similar guide for evil players? I'm just going to skip all the guise drama and roll a dark elf. :)

[Trelaboon]

I really wanted to roll a Human Ranger and get myself a guise. I started on p1999 the day it opened, but I never bothered to camp the mask, because honestly I had NO idea the server would be around for a decade; and I definitely didn’t think I’d be playing it that long if it had. The fact is though, that next fall I’ll be in the craziest school semester of my life, moving into a new place, working and juggling my family life. All of that considered, I’ll likely play a Human Rogue. They will level quickly, they’re awesome for groups and raids, their epic is hella easy, and my Rogue is one of my favorite level 60’s (I have 8) on p99. I suspect I will be super casual on Green, so the odds of me getting a mask are slim anyway, and the odds of leveling a class with a 40% exp penalty high enough to even camp one before it drops is also unlikely.

Most likely, I’ll roll in the Qeynos area and just hang around in blackburrow. I feel like that zone will be poppin’.

[Jibartik]

One thing progresion servers always suffer from is melee classes being abscent for a month, like basically 10% of the pop rolls a melee class first.

So hell yes to more rogues!

Im thinking of going ogre war and saying screw all the mana/guise drama too..

Would be fun to just group with people through all the chaos and be a big ham with knives.

[Frug]

wait.. in classic you can roll a dark elf monk??

Not that I recall. Just human till Kunark, then add Iksar.

[Tecmos Deception]

Gasp people will have to /group, instead of soloing

Fuck that.


awesome posts. going to get the scoop on all of these bag quests at once on the double

You could farm backpacks or the gold to buy them off noob mobs before you could circle norrath to pick up those containers. Or better, do certain mail quests for guaranteed xp and coin without competing over mob kills.


Plays 20-year-old game. Doesn't think it's stupid.

Thinks how you play 20-year-old game is stupid.

This is definitely classic.

[fastboy21]

Green99 goals:

1. Have fun
2. Make friends
3. Have fun with new friends
4. Laugh at people who think you can "win" EQ

[ScottBerta]

I still don’t understand why everyone wants to jump on green to waste more time on this game. Ya, I’m hooked and have spent thousands of hours playing to get what I have but I don’t want to spend thousands of hours to do it again... Like sweet, I just wasted another 3 years of my life so I can have exactly what I attained in the last 3 years of my life.

[Tenderizer]

I still don’t understand why everyone wants to jump on green to waste more time on this game. Ya, I’m hooked and have spent thousands of hours playing to get what I have but I don’t want to spend thousands of hours to do it again... Like sweet, I just wasted another 3 years of my life so I can have exactly what I attained in the last 3 years of my life.

but you wont have exactly the same thing. The expansions will move fast enough to keep you mostly on a main unless you play godlike hours. No more locked at kunark for years with accounts full of chardok aoe toons and the like.

[caveslug]

I still don’t understand why everyone wants to jump on green to waste more time on this game. Ya, I’m hooked and have spent thousands of hours playing to get what I have but I don’t want to spend thousands of hours to do it again... Like sweet, I just wasted another 3 years of my life so I can have exactly what I attained in the last 3 years of my life.

A chance to level up without everyone and their dog twinked out trivializing all the content. Even a new player to Blue, can hang around EC tunnel or any starting zone and get free gear.

Should help split up the population a bit too, so Blue isn't so crowded in certain zones.

[Widan]

I still don’t understand why everyone wants to jump on green to waste more time on this game. Ya, I’m hooked and have spent thousands of hours playing to get what I have but I don’t want to spend thousands of hours to do it again... Like sweet, I just wasted another 3 years of my life so I can have exactly what I attained in the last 3 years of my life.

Cause velious is the worst of the 'classic' timeline and old world true classic is the best

[aaezil]

Everyone thinks green will be the best thing ever until every single orc spawn in crushbone is a camp

[Jibartik]

I still don’t understand why everyone wants to jump on green to waste more time on this game. Ya, I’m hooked and have spent thousands of hours playing to get what I have but I don’t want to spend thousands of hours to do it again... Like sweet, I just wasted another 3 years of my life so I can have exactly what I attained in the last 3 years of my life.

Well on the other hand I dont understand why people play this game to make progress, I just play it to play it. So if I'm on green, it makes everyone play the zones I like the most, so why not play it to play it, on a server where everyone is forced to play in the best zones and use the best (rusty) type of weapons? :p

[Izmael]

Instead of merging Green into Blue, maybe it could be merged into Red.

This way, the immutability of Blue is preserved, while Red is being given a new influx of players, since some of them will inevitably try Red with all their gear in there.

[Jibartik]

what is the immutability of blue? That 90% of the guises and manastones have been banned for RMT?

[Kayso2]

old world true classic is the best

Drugs. We still have some class imbalance in Velious, but it was horrible in classic. Poor Balance. Poor itemization. Lack of content.

[cactus]

You could farm backpacks or the gold to buy them off noob mobs before you could circle norrath to pick up those containers. Or better, do certain mail quests for guaranteed xp and coin without competing over mob kills.


Maybe the idea is you grab one bag local to your character just to help load up bonechips, store food etc, until you can afford bags, and not run around the entire world.

dingus.

[Jibartik]

can hail an NPC in the misty noobie hunting yards to recive a bag. can mean the difference between a spell or 2 by level 9

this is important stuff

[Jibartik]

Drugs. We still have some class imbalance in Velious, but it was horrible in classic. Poor Balance. Poor itemization. Lack of content.

classic: The best version of the game.
Kunark: Good balanced expansion, bad art direction.
velious: Broken expansion with zones that are too big/poorly designed, Unbalanced totally over powered items, and a singular focus on toxic end game raiding and toxic players.

Prove me wrong.

[Jimjam]

Drugs. We still have some class imbalance in Velious, but it was horrible in classic. Poor Balance. Poor itemization. Lack of content. I preferred Everquest as an exploration sandbox full of world building (cleric smarty pants).

[Utmost]

Pro strat: Form a crew

[Trelaboon]

Classic really sucks as a melee. Weapon choices were horrible. Warriors were okay with Yaks, and monks were okay with fists, but Rogues really sucked

[Jibartik]

it was an era of mortal men

[Widan]

Drugs. We still have some class imbalance in Velious, but it was horrible in classic. Poor Balance. Poor itemization. Lack of content.

Raiding is by far the worst and least fun part of everquest and velious doesn't offer much other than that

[Buellen]

NOT a pro tip just something that requires little killing since almost all low level mobs will be killed and starting zone congestion.

Qeynos: Good race probably a ranger

1. The Crate http://wiki.project1999.com/The_Crate_(good) or http://wiki.project1999.com/The_Crate_(evil)

2. Taxes Quest (http://wiki.project1999.com/Taxes)

3. Turn in The Crate Quest

4. finish collecting taxes in Qeynos hills

5. Run to surefall glade ( kill whatever i can find alive along way )

6. Get mail quest and Statue quest ( http://wiki.project1999.com/Nesiff%27s_Statue)

7. Run back to Qeynos turn in / grab quests and Repeat

( Yes i know you can do the crate by itself over and over faster than all this running, but that get quickly boring )

[7thGate]

Raiding is by far the worst and least fun part of everquest and velious doesn't offer much other than that

Its got my favorite zone to mess around in on small groups though, Siren's Grotto. Though Kedge is also really fun for the classic levels.

[Halfcell]

velious: Broken expansion with zones that are too big/poorly designed, Unbalanced totally over powered items, and a singular focus on toxic end game raiding and toxic players.

Prove me wrong.

Or, you know, the expansion that defined all MMO's for the next decade and a half. Velious is responsible for the true success and longevity of EQ, WoW, Rift, and pretty much every other MMO since. In fact, Velious's echoes can even be felt in games like Destiny, the Division, and Anthem (or rather, Anthem died immediately because of it's lack of that echo).

The foundational impact that Velious had on gaming cannot be overstated imo. It's the most important content ever released in EQ, it is this games true legacy.

[Jibartik]

Oh yea, we all really love the decade and a half of MMO gaming that came after Velious around these parts.

[Nuggie]

Bwuahahaha

Getting back on topic:

High elf ench: mail route > bone chips > unrest + wisps and light stones/GLS's to S.Ro Delf > HPH > HK / SolA / city guards > Lguk > finish maxing JC.

Probably make my cleric somewhere in there while waiting for groups/spots to open up.

[azeth]

Classic really sucks as a melee. Weapon choices were horrible. Warriors were okay with Yaks, and monks were okay with fists, but Rogues really sucked

This guy knows

[kotton05]

Oh yea, we all really love the decade and a half of MMO gaming that came after Velious around these parts.
I lol’d

[Zipity]

Highelf cleric mail quest til 14 via corpsing mail and dragging two corpses at a time, un rest til 19 then double DA training the group of mages at Lguk EE camp so my mage bros can move in and get me a manastone > Ivu+Invis from same mage bros before I double DA train people at guise camp for my monks mask. Eating two lvl 19 account bans for manastone and guise 100% worth it.

[Halfcell]

Oh yea, we all really love the decade and a half of MMO gaming that came after Velious around these parts.

A fair point, P99 forums are probably not the venue for arguing the positives of progress in gaming, but it doesn't change the argument. Velious is not a bad expansion just because you don't raid.

If you don't raid, and you're not a loot whore, every MMO since Velious release and most of the MMO lites like Destiny and Warframe are probably not for you. Hell there will probably be hints of Velious in Borderlands 3 when it comes out.

[wagorf]

Uh, the goal isn't to trick people into thinking I somehow made a DE Pally. It's that a Dark Elf Paladin with a flaming sword looks a billion times cooler than a human or dwarf or whatever.

And if you have a guise, you WANT everyone to know you have a guise, because its a status symbol. I wouldn't want a guise on a class that can be a dark elf, except for small races and large races for the other reason I mentioned (free shrink / not getting blocked by certain geometry)

LOL i really want to hear this guy say that in person, i'd be ROFL for 10 minutes

[Widan]

Or, you know, the expansion that defined all MMO's for the next decade and a half. Velious is responsible for the true success and longevity of EQ, WoW, Rift, and pretty much every other MMO since.

You mean Planes of Power, the best and most comprehensive raid expansion? Also the expansion that peaked EQ in terms of subscriber numbers? That expansion?

[Halfcell]

You mean Planes of Power, the best and most comprehensive raid expansion? Also the expansion that peaked EQ in terms of subscriber numbers? That expansion?

Planes of Power was indeed all of those things, but Velious is what started it all. All PoP really did was expand and improve on what Velious invented.

Also, PoP was pretty much the expansion that killed EQ too. The gear-inflation was so bad it made all previous expansions obsolete in a way that Velious and even Luclin didn't.

Even deep into Luclin there were still items out of VP that were basically as good as VT loot. Not many, but some. PoP destroyed everything before it, and started the precedent of "new expansion, all your old shit sucks" that plagues EQ to this day.

[NachtMystium]

classic: The best version of the game.
Kunark: Good balanced expansion, bad art direction.
velious: Broken expansion with zones that are too big/poorly designed, Unbalanced totally over powered items, and a singular focus on toxic end game raiding and toxic players.

Prove me wrong.

Wow new record. The toxic word didn’t get said until page 7. Not bad but let’s keep trying to improve on that guys.

Also, horrible opinions on the expansions. See you on green

[Jibartik]

Nact if people keep saying the word toxic around you it might not be them.

c u there!

[Jimjam]

Jibber, I agree with you mate! Pre Temple of Sol Ro itemisation was the bomb!

[Endonde]

Planes of Power was indeed all of those things, but Velious is what started it all. All PoP really did was expand and improve on what Velious invented.

Also, PoP was pretty much the expansion that killed EQ too. The gear-inflation was so bad it made all previous expansions obsolete in a way that Velious and even Luclin didn't.

Even deep into Luclin there were still items out of VP that were basically as good as VT loot. Not many, but some. PoP destroyed everything before it, and started the precedent of "new expansion, all your old shit sucks" that plagues EQ to this day.

I dunno if you have really looked at the gear differences between Kunark, and Velious.

Velious really got the ball rolling on gear inflation, you went from barely any items near 100 hp or mana, to pretty much every slot being 100 hp/mana. Kunark the gear gap wasn't really that bad and most of the power creep that did exist was because of the 10 level increase and the spells that came with that.

Just look at the differences between a nearly BiS Kunark monk, and a BiS Velious monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Diamondfist_End_Game

I know it isn't a popular opinion around these parts but Velious is a really shitty expansion, it doesn't offer much outside of raiding which to me is the worst part of Everquest, Luclin and Kunark are far superior, even PoP which was primarily a raiding expansion similar to Velious made the raiding seem like a journey, rather than Velious which is just oh look here are a bunch of dragons for you!

[Halfcell]

I dunno if you have really looked at the gear differences between Kunark, and Velious.

Velious really got the ball rolling on gear inflation, you went from barely any items near 100 hp or mana, to pretty much every slot being 100 hp/mana. Kunark the gear gap wasn't really that bad and most of the power creep that did exist was because of the 10 level increase and the spells that came with that.

Just look at the differences between a nearly BiS Kunark monk, and a BiS Velious monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Diamondfist_End_Game

I know it isn't a popular opinion around these parts but Velious is a really shitty expansion, it doesn't offer much outside of raiding which to me is the worst part of Everquest, Luclin and Kunark are far superior, even PoP which was primarily a raiding expansion similar to Velious made the raiding seem like a journey, rather than Velious which is just oh look here are a bunch of dragons for you!


Well, I mean you could make the same case for classic to kunark though. The difference between a character in full PoHate gear even you leveled him to 60, and a character in full Kunark BiS is extreme. It is the nature of expansions to make your character better through new gear.

My point, though, is that Velious didn't make everything you did in previous expansions obsolete. You can see it today, Aftermath and Riot still go kill mobs in Hate and Fear, hell the races for Fear Golems or Draco at 3am on a Wednesday get downright heated.

Once PoP came out there was no reason to ever go back to a previous expansion, except for maybe 1 or 2 clickies out of Vex Thal. Everything was obsolete. It was the first EQ expansion to do that.

[zodium]

I dunno if you have really looked at the gear differences between Kunark, and Velious.

Velious really got the ball rolling on gear inflation, you went from barely any items near 100 hp or mana, to pretty much every slot being 100 hp/mana. Kunark the gear gap wasn't really that bad and most of the power creep that did exist was because of the 10 level increase and the spells that came with that.

Just look at the differences between a nearly BiS Kunark monk, and a BiS Velious monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Diamondfist_End_Game

I know it isn't a popular opinion around these parts but Velious is a really shitty expansion, it doesn't offer much outside of raiding which to me is the worst part of Everquest, Luclin and Kunark are far superior, even PoP which was primarily a raiding expansion similar to Velious made the raiding seem like a journey, rather than Velious which is just oh look here are a bunch of dragons for you!

I like the part where you handwave adding 10 levels to literally everyone away as less significant to power creep than a particular class of top-end Velious gear that most people will never see.

This analysis is sound, very sound, maybe one of the soundest ever. I definitely believe you at least did a cursory sanity check to see if your gut feelings actually make sense before sharing them with us here.

[Endonde]

Well, I mean you could make the same case for classic to kunark though. The difference between a character in full PoHate gear even you leveled him to 60, and a character in full Kunark BiS is extreme. It is the nature of expansions to make your character better through new gear.

My point, though, is that Velious didn't make everything you did in previous expansions obsolete. You can see it today, Aftermath and Riot still go kill mobs in Hate and Fear, hell the races for Fear Golems or Draco at 3am on a Wednesday get downright heated.

Once PoP came out there was no reason to ever go back to a previous expansion, except for maybe 1 or 2 clickies out of Vex Thal. Everything was obsolete. It was the first EQ expansion to do that.



The difference in Kunark gear and Classic gear is not nearly as large as the Velious to Kunark gap. I just threw together a Magelo page for a Pre-Kunark Monk it definitely isnt BiS since I just threw it together mostly off the wiki gear suggestions but it's close enough. Resist choices are pretty limited in both expansions for monks and you often had to choose either resists or hp, so my monk is mostly geared for hp because the Kunark monk I chose is also mostly geared for hp.

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Red:Planar_monk

https://wiki.project1999.com/Magelo_Blue:Hokushin

The Kunark monk gains a whopping 300 hp, 50 ac, and 65 MR. Now lets compare that to what the Velious monk gains over his Kunark counterpart, the Velious monk gains 1600 hp, 450 ac, and 85 Magic resist (enough for him to reach cap with his clicky flower). The Velious monk doesn't have to choose if he wants resists or hp, he easily obtains both, It's also important to note that the only Kunark item that the Velious monk wears is his epic, while the Kunark monk wears 8 seperate pieces of gear from Classic.

The idea of comparing P99 guilds and their desire to kill old content versus live guilds desire to kill old content is pretty disingenuous. P99 guilds kill everything because the turn over on this server is really huge, and there is never a shortage of people who need gear, So you have to go get that gear from any source available, and on live if a guild clearing PoP needed to recruit players they could typically poach new members from the raiding guilds doing Luclin or Velious content. There is also the issue that P99 guilds are about 3 times the size of a normal live guild so even if you kill every Velious dragon it isn't enough to gear all of your members. Also players on live weren't nearly as geared as the players on P99 so the power creep probably appeared less severe on live but on P99 where we are stuck in Velious forever the difference between Kunark and Velious gear becomes incredibly clear.

Velious was a bad expansion sorry.


I like the part where you handwave adding 10 levels to literally everyone away as less significant to power creep than a particular class of top-end Velious gear that most people will never see.

This analysis is sound, very sound, maybe one of the soundest ever. I definitely believe you at least did a cursory sanity check to see if your gut feelings actually make sense before sharing them with us here.

I'm not really saying the 10 levels doesn't contribute to power creep, it certainly does, Torpor alone is absolutely insane power creep. I'm just saying that power creep didn't just randomly take off in Luclin and PoP.

[zodium]

I'm not really saying the 10 levels doesn't contribute to power creep, it certainly does, Torpor alone is absolutely insane power creep.

you think so?? wow, maybe Actually, Velious Bad Because Power Creep doesn't make as much sense as those 10,000 words you just wrote might otherwise suggest

[Nirgon]

>Not making a mage coalition to bum rush content

Illusion mask is pimp item to use even way past velious for bragging rights on your DE monk.

Manastone has limited usability in old world only, and basically is just for wiz / druid

You know about complete heal and stone for cleric I hope

[Jibartik]

Well, I mean you could make the same case for classic to kunark though. The difference between a character in full PoHate gear even you leveled him to 60, and a character in full Kunark BiS is extreme. It is the nature of expansions to make your character better through new gear.

Well I beg to differ, gear in classic and fear/hate were regularlly raided during kunark for end game players, if you look at warrior bis in kunark at leastg 3 items are pre kunark, while if you look at bis warrior velious 0 are. And that's an almost unfair take because they wear pure AC and that is the one stat kunark bumped with class armor, so thats with a full set of colbot, if you want stats, you're going to be wearing 3-5 more peaces of classic blazing ro or hate armor. I mean just look at the monk linked above, its wearing like 90% classic gearz.

Which brings me to my next nerdy point...

I like the part where you handwave adding 10 levels to literally everyone away as less significant to power creep than a particular class of top-end Velious gear that most people will never see.

The difference between levels and gear is that levels do not make entire zones irrelevant, if you still need the gear from those zones, then you still need to go back to get it, even if you're high level. High level farming is what EQ is virtually all about next to raiding for end game players.

After velious almost 90-100% of classic itemization that is not a rechargable click, is virtually useless.

when you jump the HPs up from +10 to +25, its not unrealistic that a raider would still wear the +10 HP item, but if you jump them from +25 to +100, a raider would be a trash can if they were wearing the +10 item.

levels =/= gearing in terms of devaluing older expansions. Levels will trivialize older content but gear can make it outright irrelevant.

That siad I think Kunark was also a bit too powerful (just not as over powered as velious was) If it were up to me, Kunark would be a level 55 expansion that would have made it perfection, and velious would be the level 60 one.

[Halfcell]

Well I beg to differ, gear in classic and fear/hate were regularlly raided during kunark for end game players, if you look at warrior bis in kunark at leastg 3 items are pre kunark, while if you look at bis warrior velious 0 are. And that's an almost unfair take because they wear pure AC and that is the one stat kunark bumped with class armor, so thats with a full set of colbot, if you want stats, you're going to be wearing 3-5 more peaces of classic blazing ro or hate armor. I mean just look at the monk linked above, its wearing like 90% classic gearz.


This may be true, though I don't think warriors from Kunark to Velious are the best example. Bosses in velious hit unbelievably hard, and they needed a huge gear boost to even be able to survive a round of AoW or Vyemm, or even a flurry drake.

I also dont think comparing BiS to BiS is really fair. In PoP the lower tier Tranquility armors would be near BiS in previous expansions. A character in "damn good" Kunark gear wasn't swapping out for Thurg gear.

My point wasn't that expansions don't inflate gear, my point was that PoP inflated it so much that it made everything before it obsolete, and that this started a brutal trend that has harmed MMOs ever since.

I watched it happen on Agnarr. Vex Thal gear getting swapped out for drops from low ass planes bosses, and by PoTime literally no one wearing a stitch from any previous expansion with the one exception of the Aten Ha Ra neck.

One example, though this is an edit so I dont have time to find the link, was a 2h axe ... something or other Windblade, that dropped from trash in a low level plane, that was as good as NToV and Vex Thal 2 handers. Or the Cord Hilted Spike Driver, every bit as good as a Blade of Carnage, but it dropped from a miniboss in Plane of Innovation.


Found it, it's just Windblade
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=16695

Why ever go back to Velious or Luclin when XP trash drops this shit?

[Jibartik]

One of the lessons I wish the gaming industry could learn from p99 is that it ran the first two expansions for what, 8 years? and the economy was strong all the way through. Static player base. Active community. And all with zero expansions, just bug fixes and ascetic changes.

Very impressive. It seems like games think they need to make huge updates to keep players interested when really, just tightening up the graphics on level 3 for a few years while we re-roll and re-roll and re-roll, is a perfectly balanced and IMO better way to manage mmo expansions.

[Halfcell]

One of the lessons I wish the gaming industry could learn from p99 is that it ran the first two expansions for what, 8 years? and the economy was strong all the way through. Static player base. Active community. And all with zero expansions, just bug fixes and ascetic changes.

Very impressive. It seems like games think they need to make huge updates to keep players interested when really, just tightening up the graphics on level 3 for a few years while we re-roll and re-roll and re-roll, is a perfectly balanced and IMO better way to manage mmo expansions.


This I completely agree with.

[Immok]

One of the lessons I wish the gaming industry could learn from p99 is that it ran the first two expansions for what, 8 years? and the economy was strong all the way through. Static player base. Active community. And all with zero expansions, just bug fixes and ascetic changes.

Very impressive. It seems like games think they need to make huge updates to keep players interested when really, just tightening up the graphics on level 3 for a few years while we re-roll and re-roll and re-roll, is a perfectly balanced and IMO better way to manage mmo expansions.

Would P99 be so successful though if it charged a monthly fee? Once people are paying for something they get a lot more demanding.

[NegaStoat]

Would P99 be so successful though if it charged a monthly fee? Once people are paying for something they get a lot more demanding.

I'm an old school gamer and the service that is most important to me when it comes to paying a monthly subscription is anti cheat and rules enforcement. When I sit down to play a session of a game I'm paying for, I have expectations from the game I am playing that I will enjoy what it offers and that the consequences for people breaking the printed rules and ruining my enjoyment are real.

Older games like Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, City of Heroes and even World of Warcraft through most of pre burning crusade absolutely dropped the hammer down on asshats breaking the rules and harassing people if they were given evidence. People employing cheats or attempting to, and this included scams, frauds, or swindles, also lost their crap on the first confirmed report. Full stop - not a temp ban.

Considering the player base we have on P1999, a LOT of leniency is being offered to repeat offenders that absolutely know what they are doing, especially with the raid scene, and especially with key targets for highly prized loot drops (fountain campers, anyone?) as well as zone abuse with power leveling sessions.

The short of it is, the P1999 staff isn't prepared to offer what commercial servers once did for this game format. Even if a monthly sub was involved.

[Zuranthium]

Classic really sucks as a melee. Weapon choices were horrible. Warriors were okay with Yaks, and monks were okay with fists, but Rogues really sucked

it was an era of mortal men

Yep. If things in the game are going to be unbalanced, I would prefer casters being more powerful then melee. Magic is supposed to represent something more powerful than mere man, and in terms of game design it means more interdependence. Rogues were indeed horrible in classic until they got Evade and the backstab buff, but they are perfectly fine once those changes get put in. They become OP in the expansions with their chart-topping DPS and self-healing items.

Kunark is definitely better than Velious though and a fairly reasonable place to be in terms of overall balance and world design, if going strictly in terms of "in-era design". The itemization in Velious hurts the game way too much, the raids are more boring with the overinflated HP of the mobs, and it's a visually less interesting place overall. Even compare Temple of Veeshan to Veeshan's Peak. The former is mostly just flat and nonsensical. All those random, generic halls that dragons stand around in. It doesn't have a lot of conceptual depth - it's too World of Warcraft. Veeshan's Peak feels more like a place that dragons actually live and it's more interesting to journey through.

If it were up to me, Kunark would be a level 55 expansion that would have made it perfection, and velious would be the level 60 one.

I like the general idea you're getting at here, but strictly in terms of classic design, this would make Kunark worse. Removing 5 levels doesn't make melee that much less powerful, because their power increase comes mainly from gear + abilities they get by level 55, whereas casters losing their spells and being resisted WAY more by higher level mobs puts them at a big disadvantage. That is, except for Clerics, who are already super problematic because of the C-heal mechanic.

There would be an increased number of raid targets or even general upper end grouping targets that slow would become unreliable on, which means more Clerics and pointless downtime would be required for the boring C-heal chain. Not to mention how Wizards would fare without Lure of Ice and even getting resisted sometimes on the weaker Lures. Ick.

[zodium]

levels =/= gearing in terms of devaluing older expansions. Levels will trivialize older content but gear can make it outright irrelevant.

sure, leveling will "trivialize" older content while gear will make it "outright irrelevant." these are definitely real different things with real differences that have real gameplay implications, rather than a graphite-thin rhetorical straw for which you have reflexively grasped to momentarily convince yourself the torrent of chatter you're emitting has some connection to the reality in which the rest of us live.

One of the lessons I wish the gaming industry could learn from p99 is that it ran the first two expansions for what, 8 years? and the economy was strong all the way through. Static player base. Active community. And all with zero expansions, just bug fixes and ascetic changes.

Very impressive. It seems like games think they need to make huge updates to keep players interested when really, just tightening up the graphics on level 3 for a few years while we re-roll and re-roll and re-roll, is a perfectly balanced and IMO better way to manage mmo expansions.

hmm yes this must have continued to happen in spite of velious, a badly itemized expansion.

[zodium]

maybe the most bizarre thing about putting velious as the cutoff point for where the power creep 'all went wrong' is that luclin was the expansion where they changed the business model from a more or less holistically designed world to a theme park progression with independent content islands, which is the entire reason this server exists in the first place.

[enjchanter]

I know it isn't a popular opinion around these parts but Velious is a really shitty expansion, it doesn't offer much outside of raiding which to me is the worst part of Everquest, Luclin and Kunark are far superior, even PoP which was primarily a raiding expansion similar to Velious made the raiding seem like a journey, rather than Velious which is just oh look here are a bunch of dragons for you!

Amen brother
Kunark forever !

[fortior]

It's a bad idea when your goal is to increase game expansion sales, but I honestly think it's okay if some rare drops from tough bosses stay relevant forever, or at least for a very long time.

It's dumb that a sword dropped by a lore-important deity gets outclassed by trash drops from random dime a dozen dragons three expansions down the line

[Izmael]

The server is meant to reflect Nilbog's vision of "good" EQ. Nothing else matters, really.

If you happen to agree with him, great (I do).

If you don't... TAKP is right there and is also a good server.

[7thGate]

With regards to the classic->Kunark power shift, it was enormous. If I'm looking at Rogue piercers, and say "what's a relatively easy to acquire weapon for a raiding rogue look like", classic is going to be like a 10/24 eyerazzia or a 9/27 shrieking ahlspiess. Kunark, its going to be Ragebringer. Yes, someone with an ebonsting and a 41% sky haste belt is going to see a much smaller difference, but the difficulty and volume of loot between raiding the higher islands in sky with level 50's and no clicky clerics vs. doing the Rogue epic is huge.

I don't know how many of you leveled up with old world weapons and then got a Ragebringer. I wasn't even in this boat, because even with with ALS level restrictions to prevent taking advantage of the glut of weapons that come out of Seb and HS, it was clearly massively easier to go camp an Iksar Berserker Club and a Jade Chokdai prod than to try for any equivalent old world weaponry. A planar trash equipped classic rogue should be slightly stronger than those, but not by very much, and the transition from those to Ragebringer? Absolutely nuts.

Lots of classes are going to see a similar shift. Just getting infinite 96% Clicky Rez alone is massive, massive power creep. Focus of Spirit makes non-stamina stats mostly irrelevant since capping strength becomes trivial for basically everyone. Torpor completely changes shaman power levels. Wizards get lure spells to be able to really hit high end targets, etc.

[Jibartik]

True, weapons were both lacking in classic, and made pretty irrelevant with Kunark I wont disagree with that. But I'm the kinda guy that wished kunark was ratcheted down 5 levels and all the items reduced in power by about 25% so, it's not gonna take much to convince me that kunark was also too powerful.

It's just that compared to what you get with velious, it's not as powerful.

edit: wait, let me clarify :o not as powerful, with regards to making earlier content irrelevant.

[aaezil]

Even at lvl 60 with velious gear breaking into fear isnt trivial for instance. Theres power creep but it’s not as bad as the later expansions where toons could solo all the kunark and velious bosses.

[Jibartik]

Even at lvl 60 with velious gear breaking into fear isnt trivial for instance. Theres power creep but it’s not as bad as the later expansions where toons could solo all the kunark and velious bosses.

good thing they revamped all the item's in that zone to make people want to go back, after the devs made it all irrelevant with velious's itemisation :o

[Jimjam]

I'd consider pre-kunark planes a different phase to vanilla EQ. Itemisation of dragons, temple of sol ro and planes are things I consider separate to 'true' vanilla.

[Jibartik]

I'd consider pre-kunark planes a different phase to vanilla EQ. Itemisation of dragons, temple of sol ro and planes are things I consider separate to 'true' vanilla.

I like that actually, if kunark, and velious were cut up and spread out over the course of like twice or three times as many years, updated intermittently, I bet not only would they have had time to make each update even better but it would be like the rate that I think would have been cooler than just dropping a huge content dump every year.

[zodium]

With regards to the classic->Kunark power shift, it was enormous. If I'm looking at Rogue piercers, and say "what's a relatively easy to acquire weapon for a raiding rogue look like", classic is going to be like a 10/24 eyerazzia or a 9/27 shrieking ahlspiess. Kunark, its going to be Ragebringer. Yes, someone with an ebonsting and a 41% sky haste belt is going to see a much smaller difference, but the difficulty and volume of loot between raiding the higher islands in sky with level 50's and no clicky clerics vs. doing the Rogue epic is huge.

I don't know how many of you leveled up with old world weapons and then got a Ragebringer. I wasn't even in this boat, because even with with ALS level restrictions to prevent taking advantage of the glut of weapons that come out of Seb and HS, it was clearly massively easier to go camp an Iksar Berserker Club and a Jade Chokdai prod than to try for any equivalent old world weaponry. A planar trash equipped classic rogue should be slightly stronger than those, but not by very much, and the transition from those to Ragebringer? Absolutely nuts.

Lots of classes are going to see a similar shift. Just getting infinite 96% Clicky Rez alone is massive, massive power creep. Focus of Spirit makes non-stamina stats mostly irrelevant since capping strength becomes trivial for basically everyone. Torpor completely changes shaman power levels. Wizards get lure spells to be able to really hit high end targets, etc.

yeah it's inane, just think about like transitioning from single to double backstab, or getting POTG, or literally anything lol

i'm wondering how many posts it's gonna take jibartik to realize that his entire case rests on defining "content relevance" as "drops loot i, subjectively, would want"

[Jibartik]

yeah it's inane, just think about like transitioning from single to double backstab, or getting POTG, or literally anything lol

i'm wondering how many posts it's gonna take jibartik to realize that his entire case rests on defining "content relevance" as "drops loot i, subjectively, would want"

Are you seriously going to sit here and tell me that my fantasies about a video game hurt you?

I personally think content relevance pertains to how relevant the loot that drops in that content is in relationship to use during end game. Big deal.

[Jibartik]

also pre kunark is best i win cant beat me la~!

[zodium]

also pre kunark is best i win cant beat me la~!

ok i'll get on board with this, pre kunark was cool as hell

[Jibartik]

woo hoo choo choo next stop green99

https://i.imgur.com/ivnt0jx.png

[NegaStoat]

Honest question. Will Green launch with actual classic Fish Roll baking where you could make a substantial profit from the vendor because it returned 2 per combine? I guess a follow up question would involve profit from vendor from making bows until it was nerfed near Kunark's launch.

Aside from the obvious method of making banded armor and then doing Tunnel Quest, I'm looking at classic ways of making cash that won't involve competing with the hordes of players in their teens / early 20's killing anything that might drop a bronze weapon or bandit sash.

[Jimjam]

I like that actually, if kunark, and velious were cut up and spread out over the course of like twice or three times as many years, updated intermittently, I bet not only would they have had time to make each update even better but it would be like the rate that I think would have been cooler than just dropping a huge content dump every year.

This would work really well for Velious!

Start with iceclad, add tofs, then EW and CC to introduce the idea of abandoned dwarf explorers, then GD and Thurg to introduce the true velious dwarfs and the idea of their wars with the Giants. Then add the frost giant side of kael so people can pick a side...

Aaaah velious would be so much deeper like this!!

[Muggens]

Would play on jib n jams slowbox

[Nuggie]

Honest question. Will Green launch with actual classic Fish Roll baking where you could make a substantial profit from the vendor because it returned 2 per combine? I guess a follow up question would involve profit from vendor from making bows until it was nerfed near Kunark's launch.

Aside from the obvious method of making banded armor and then doing Tunnel Quest, I'm looking at classic ways of making cash that won't involve competing with the hordes of players in their teens / early 20's killing anything that might drop a bronze weapon or bandit sash.

I highly suspect Green will indeed not have a bunch of little things that were nerfed as exploits. However, only a dozen or so people have access to that information and I haven't seen anything from them about it since Green's super casual announcement.

[ScribinTheScribe]

Green 99 is coming. You won't have that precious fungi, no more running to the EC tunnels for buffs or to try to push bones and silk for crucial early cash. What are some early quests, techniques, strategies you do on a fresh EQ server? What are some early goals and gear you try to achieve? What is on your fresh start checklist? Share your strats, goals, tips, and tricks below!

For me first thing I like to run to quest NPCs who give you a bag, such as

https://wiki.project1999.com/Crush_the_Undead
https://wiki.project1999.com/Skeleton_Killing
https://wiki.project1999.com/The_Cigar
https://wiki.project1999.com/Ice_Goblin_Beads
https://wiki.project1999.com/Air_Tight_Box_Quest

Until you can get some backpacks of your own

This is a great idea for a thread where we can all share what we know. I hope we can get it back on topic!

Players starting in Gfay can visit the Warrior guild in Kelethin for a free 4 slot bag with medium capacity. http://wiki.project1999.com/Shark_Meat_Quest

This one is from Ak`anon 10 slots, small capacity. http://wiki.project1999.com/Crate_for_Tonics

This noobie quest starts in Kaladim (there's a Qeynos version too) it yields random rewards, one of them is a +3 int earring! http://wiki.project1999.com/The_Gnome_Take

This is a level 5-6 quest that starts in Neriak, yields a 6 slot 5% WR bag with small Capacity http://wiki.project1999.com/Featherweight_Pouch

[Videri]

Hopping on the pro bag strat train, here's my favorite starter bag.
http://wiki.project1999.com/Tailored_Large_Bag
You make them from Low Quality Bear Skins and a Silk Cord. Trivial at 36, so accessible pretty early. Though they have 2 less slots than a backpack, they weigh only 0.8 and have 10% weight reduction. For certain races/classes, they're better; and even on medium-strength characters, it can be nice to mix and match some backpacks and medicine bags and these things.

LQ Cat and Wolf skins make similar light 6-slot bags with smaller item size capacity, so perhaps useful for characters not near bears.

[waltjig]

The ideal troll effort from Rogean would be to have them removed from the game at the very beginning, but make people think they are within the game.

Reading all these green server threads and people's assumptions of this and that might just be in for a rude surprise.

Well considering the entire point of the green server is to recreate an actual classic experience, and this is an emulated experience from 1999, I’d say we are most certainly not in for any surprises at all. . Unless you can’t read.

[Jibartik]

Dont forget to buy large sewing kits! Work on that tailoring while youre out in the brush as a bonus :)

[cactus]

Kind of a well-known one but, avoid the greedy merchants.

Merchants like the female inside the freeport bank, boomba the big, or the male just inside the qeynos gates will give you 50% less for your wares and charge you 50% more for theirs. This is especially important when every silver piece counts early on. Don't sell your precious cracked staff to these guys (see list below)

https://wiki.project1999.com/Greedy_Merchant

[Jibartik]

+1 for all the bug collectors out there that keep their bug collection box till they are 60

[gkmarino]

- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

- I just "broke up" with my last RL friend. Known the guy for twenty years but if I didn't let him go, I know he'd just be communicating with me and trying to hang out and stuff while I'm playing. Also no girlfriend, because I'm red pilled to the max and don't want to lower my standards.

- Been stocking up on tuna fish pouches and boxes of ritz crackers for those late camp munchie attacks. I'm also thinking about moving my refrigerator into my bedroom and stocking it with 100% ready-to-eat food items that way I never have to cook or do dishes.

- I'm also retraining my body to become comfortable with a polyphasic sleep cycle. That basically means I'll take like one 2 hour nap per day, and offset that with short micro naps of like 20-35 minutes at a time, depending on what I'm camping. I've also secured a small supply of caffeine pills to help me when I absolutely can't sleep at all. And I mean real caffeine pills, manufactured by the Soviet Union specifically for long-term storage in case of protracted warfare. Sweet deal out of Ukraine, meant to hit you like a bolt of lightning.

- Main goals are to create the top raiding/farming guild on Green and maintain complete dominance of the raid scene for the entire classic timeline. Think TMO and Aftermath, but more hostile and edgy and driven by the will to conquer.
Holy hell this was funny, scary, and a flurry of truths. Damn.

[Amatsu]

My advice would be to start learning now or soonish where you can do quests/exp areas that arent overly thrashed with people. Most people are habitual and stick to what they know so knowing some outside sources would be good.

I'm hype for the whole starting over from scratch with absolutely nothing available to just buy at EC and doing tradeskills and all, which if you're not gonna be a hardcore raider its an advisable thing to do while people pass by you in level, catch up later when areas disperse a bit. But there will without a doubt be minimally 20+ people with buckets prepared that will dominate the good zones for a good month lol.

[Mazoku]

You all forget that on blue server the GMs learned from everyone camping and fighting over the Manastones and Guise of Deceivers..They also dropped in East Commonlands from RANDOM mobs..so did Rubicite. Guk is NOT the only place those items drop. Good luck to everyone. Really ANYTHING could happen on Green. On blue we had a GIANT werewolf raid in West Commonlands. You are all limiting yourselves to past experiences and expectations of what is to come based on those expectations. The mind is the limit.

[Tethler]

Dont forget to buy large sewing kits! Work on that tailoring while youre out in the brush as a bonus :)

And having the containers eat all the contents if you accidentally touch the combine button. Classic.

[Halfcell]

Well, some the potential strats also depend on which totally non-classic P99 specific nerfs go in on green right away. Examples being, are PBAoE spells going to be nerfed to 25 mobs on day 1? Are Seafuries going to drop copper and seafoam, or will they be back to Ruby Crowns on the regular? These types of things will alter my playstyle choices for sure.

[Fammaden]

Well, some the potential strats also depend on which totally non-classic P99 specific nerfs go in on green right away. Examples being, are PBAoE spells going to be nerfed to 25 mobs on day 1? Are Seafuries going to drop copper and seafoam, or will they be back to Ruby Crowns on the regular? These types of things will alter my playstyle choices for sure.

I believe people brought back word from that EQ con Q&A that the devs confirmed those kind of nerfs would be live on green from day one.

[Jibartik]

And having the containers eat all the contents if you accidentally touch the combine button. Classic.

So I remember this, but its not on p99, that a titanium client fix? :(

Or was it a patch? Meaning we may see it on green? :D

[Nuggie]

I don't recall losing stuff to sewing kits.

[Jibartik]

I don't recall losing stuff to sewing kits.

I feel like me and my friend used to live in constant fear of it, and my friend had more hubris than me. But then again, so many of my memories were fantasies cus its all just a blur.

[NegaStoat]

I feel like me and my friend used to live in constant fear of it, and my friend had more hubris than me. But then again, so many of my memories were fantasies cus its all just a blur.

I completely recall this, along with a combine eating everything if the contents didn't match a recipe exactly. I learned on the first day to NEVER use a crafting container as a backpack after my magician lost his food, drink, and 4 stacks of malachite after hitting level 8 from a large sewing kit purchased from kelethin. I got off the hook quite cheap to learn that lesson.

[Bristlebaner]

Pro strat: if you think you're getting a manastone and DE mask - you're not ....unless you plan to play 20 hrs a day and are part of the group that gets the camps on lock down.

10 practically homeless bald men will trade those camps between each other.

Sorry to be the logical rational response.

Winner.

[Pyrocat]

https://wiki.project1999.com/The_Emissary

Completable as soon as you can reliably kill https://wiki.project1999.com/Slayer_Captain

Rewards you with a 10 slot, 50% WR bag. One of the first things I did on p99 way back when.

[Jimjam]

Well, some the potential strats also depend on which totally non-classic P99 specific nerfs go in on green right away. Examples being, are PBAoE spells going to be nerfed to 25 mobs on day 1? Are Seafuries going to drop copper and seafoam, or will they be back to Ruby Crowns on the regular? These types of things will alter my playstyle choices for sure.

The seafury nerd was based on documented in game evidence from a live server. The drop rate of valuables on p99 sea furies was too damn high!

[Atychiphobia]

Very new to this game and will create a Halfling Druid as my starting character.

Any good strats on a new server being in Rivervale?

[central scrutinizer]

I'm going to play the one class I've never played

[Jimjam]

Very new to this game and will create a Halfling Druid as my starting character.

Any good strats on a new server being in Rivervale?

You can spend the first level running soup from Fools Gold to Deputy Lowmat to secure your first level and some extra spells. A lot of mobs in misty are level 2+, so waiting til level 2 and having extra spells will open up your immediate XP options.

[Nuggie]

I completely recall this, along with a combine eating everything if the contents didn't match a recipe exactly. I learned on the first day to NEVER use a crafting container as a backpack after my magician lost his food, drink, and 4 stacks of malachite after hitting level 8 from a large sewing kit purchased from kelethin. I got off the hook quite cheap to learn that lesson.

My comment was in reference to early P99 days. I apologize for my sloppiness. Does yours refer to live? It was very much a thing on live.

[Isey]

I'm going to play the one class I've never played

Have to ask...which?

[fortior]

I might play an enchanter or mage, not sure which one yet. Mages sound like fun on a fresh server since you really just need levels and spells, enchanters sound like fun since they're kind of the same except a little less self sufficient on a fresh server, I think. Talking pet weapons and no cha gear and all.

[Crede]

Mage/enc no doubt best classic classes. Especially if the pet penalty isn’t a thing for awhile mages will really be ideal.

[fortior]

Leaning more towards dark elf enchanter cause of the raw potential, but I can definitely see mages doing super well.

[Nuggie]

Mage groups are going to tear it up, but where does that get you? Can't farm gear for another class real well with a mage until you get epic(affaik, any pro-mages want to say otherwise and I will relent). Then you're mediocre at best solo, groups can tear up most dungeons.

[hagglebaby]

I can’t wait for green to launch. I think I’m going to just roll my main in this thread tonight.

[DromalPhrenia]

Mage groups are going to tear it up, but where does that get you? Can't farm gear for another class real well with a mage until you get epic(affaik, any pro-mages want to say otherwise and I will relent). Then you're mediocre at best solo, groups can tear up most dungeons.

if you're doing it alone, you're going to lose no matter what

group of mages is the smart plan

[Zuranthium]

Mage groups are going to tear it up, but where does that get you? Can't farm gear for another class real well with a mage until you get epic(affaik, any pro-mages want to say otherwise and I will relent). Then you're mediocre at best solo, groups can tear up most dungeons.

Mage pets alone in classic do better DPS than any actual melee character who doesn't have Plane of Sky equipment (which is late classic era only). Mages, Necros, and Enchanters are exactly the classes that will best be able to farm gear and money (Bards can contribute quite well with a Charm pet too, even if it's much more annoying than a regular pet or Enchanter charm, because of breaking every 24 seconds). Melee classes are frankly irrelevant in Classic, aside from the God/Dragon fights, because of how pets get feared away by them. Which is fine with me. :cool:

Ranking the power level of classes at launch in Classic:

01. Necromancer (Fine Steel Daggers drastically hastened the attack speed of their pets, it was crazy; they did the top DPS + so many other tools)
02. Enchanter
03. Mage (their pets were bugged to not be able to use weapons like Necro pets could back in the day, yet they were still super powerful)
04. Bard
05. Druid (being able to charm in Sol B and Plane of Fear is a thing, and their overall versatility as a class shines the most in this era of the game)
06. Cleric
07. Shaman
08. Wizard (Ports + burst damage actually doing something relevant in this era, makes them a more significant class than melee characters)
09. Warrior
10. Monk (top melee DPS in this era and Feign Death is nice, but Warriors with their higher magic resist and HP are more relevant for the one thing that melee actually matter for here - the Dragon/God fights)
11. Shadowknight (when considering how the normally weak SK pets improve significantly with Fine Steel Daggers, SK's might actually have the overall best DPS of any melee character in this era, when judging outside of Dragon/God fights)
12. Ranger
13. Paladin
14. Rogue (pre-buff Sneak/Hide, pre-buff Backstab, weaker primary weapon if they want to Backstab in the first place, and no Evade is a huge yikes...can sometimes get around aggro issues by utilizing proximity from a caster's Root/Blind, but that may cause more work for a group, without great payoff since Rogues at this point are just middling DPS)

[Widan]

You have warriors way too high. No sol ro quests for the first six months. Yaks won't be available to the average player for a long while. Any group that's not all casters will need an SK or Pal to tank.

[hagglebaby]

I can’t wait for green to launch. I think I’m going to just roll my main in this thread tonight.

Server: p99 green
Name: Hagglebaby
Class: Enchanter
Race: Gnome
Deity: Agnostic
Gender: Female
Face: White hair
CHA: +25
STA: +5
Starting City: Ak’Anon


Please don’t take my name

[Wendak]

You have warriors way too high. No sol ro quests for the first six months. Yaks won't be available to the average player for a long while. Any group that's not all casters will need an SK or Pal to tank.

Definitely not true the first time around on Blue. Most of the warriors were using 2x obsidian dagger for aggro until SSOY iirc.

[Widan]

Obsidian shards will not push a warrior ahead of pal or sk in dps or aggro.

[Jimjam]

Obsidian shards will not push a warrior ahead of pal or sk in dps or aggro.
What weapon will a paladin be using from a 20-40 dungeon that will out dps a pair of 6/25 with DD on an equivalently experienced warrior?

[Nuggie]

I thought we, here on P99, didn't get the weapon delay of the pet toys?

[pasi]

2x Obsidian Shard was the goto since they proc at such a low level and are common enough. Crookstinger + PGT work as well. Gnoll Lariats kick in at 25, but their damage is ass. Fast weapon damage bonus isn't much either.

Yak are good because they also have a great ratio. Kicsh Der Pavz is a good option pre-Ykesha.

Dex is super important since white threat is trash with shit weapons and damage bonuses aren't really a thing until the 30s.

The reality of the matter is there are two good ways to keep the mob focused on the warrior.
1) Keep the mob rooted and have the warrior stand on top of it. Problem is good is a good chunk of aggro and if it breaks, mob might run toward whatever caster.
2) Group with a mage or necro pet that can hold aggro. If the pet is top of the threat chart and the warrior is the highest threat person in melee range: the warrior will tank.

[Wendak]

Obsidian shards will not push a warrior ahead of pal or sk in dps or aggro.

Exactly what weapons do you think SHD gets that makes them a strong DPS option?

[Widan]

Ghoulbane is more dps not counting its proc even. For SK's Dark Reaver is an equivalently easy weapon to get and it outperforms both.

At the high end a warrior with two Yaks will outperform a knight with a Mithril 2h due to procs, assuming similar haste values.

As the majority of people will not have the high end weapons while leveling up the order of best tanks should be SK > Pal > War

[pasi]

What weapon will a paladin be using from a 20-40 dungeon that will out dps a pair of 6/25 with DD on an equivalently experienced warrior?

Not necessarily a dungeon weapon, but Man-o-War is a solid weapon in that range thats basically free (Quid is a cash camp that will be permafarmed for non-tranix enchanter hat).

My inclination is that 19/41 w/ chaotic feedback proc would out damage two 6/25 without much of a damage bonus.

With that said, anyone considering melee to be "good dps" in classic is out of their mind.

[Zuranthium]

Ghoulbane is more dps not counting its proc even. For SK's Dark Reaver is an equivalently easy weapon to get and it outperforms both.

At the high end a warrior with two Yaks will outperform a knight with a Mithril 2h due to procs, assuming similar haste values.

As the majority of people will not have the high end weapons while leveling up the order of best tanks should be SK > Pal > War

Warriors can just use Axe of the Slayers, and don't forget they have critical hits. Who cares about aggro? In this era, monsters can just bounce between different melee party members and it's fine. Casters shouldn't be doing anything that generates more aggro than a melee during a fight, and anyway there's something called Root or Pet aggro. Also, SK's/Paladins/Rangers don't have meditate in the first part of Classic - their spellcasting is extremely limited.

Again, the only real power of the shitty melee classes in Classic is being a meatbag for Dragon/God fights, and Warriors are the best at doing that. So they are the best melee class. For those poor souls who choose not to roll a caster as their first character on a new Classic server, Paladins with Ghoulbane have a small moment to "shine" since the dead side of L-Guk is the #1 place to be, but they're hardly spectacular. And really, when considering the huge exp penalty, a Warrior is going to be 3 or 4 levels higher than a Paladin in the same amount of played time, and that matters a lot for DPS.

[Nuggie]

On another note, early on we had a druid that basically monopolized the PKT spawned. Would be a good reason to make a druid.

[jacobar]

- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

- I just "broke up" with my last RL friend. Known the guy for twenty years but if I didn't let him go, I know he'd just be communicating with me and trying to hang out and stuff while I'm playing. Also no girlfriend, because I'm red pilled to the max and don't want to lower my standards.

- Been stocking up on tuna fish pouches and boxes of ritz crackers for those late camp munchie attacks. I'm also thinking about moving my refrigerator into my bedroom and stocking it with 100% ready-to-eat food items that way I never have to cook or do dishes.

- I'm also retraining my body to become comfortable with a polyphasic sleep cycle. That basically means I'll take like one 2 hour nap per day, and offset that with short micro naps of like 20-35 minutes at a time, depending on what I'm camping. I've also secured a small supply of caffeine pills to help me when I absolutely can't sleep at all. And I mean real caffeine pills, manufactured by the Soviet Union specifically for long-term storage in case of protracted warfare. Sweet deal out of Ukraine, meant to hit you like a bolt of lightning.

- Main goals are to create the top raiding/farming guild on Green and maintain complete dominance of the raid scene for the entire classic timeline. Think TMO and Aftermath, but more hostile and edgy and driven by the will to conquer.

Please take me with you

[Bristlebaner]

- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

- I just "broke up" with my last RL friend. Known the guy for twenty years but if I didn't let him go, I know he'd just be communicating with me and trying to hang out and stuff while I'm playing. Also no girlfriend, because I'm red pilled to the max and don't want to lower my standards.

- Been stocking up on tuna fish pouches and boxes of ritz crackers for those late camp munchie attacks. I'm also thinking about moving my refrigerator into my bedroom and stocking it with 100% ready-to-eat food items that way I never have to cook or do dishes.

- I'm also retraining my body to become comfortable with a polyphasic sleep cycle. That basically means I'll take like one 2 hour nap per day, and offset that with short micro naps of like 20-35 minutes at a time, depending on what I'm camping. I've also secured a small supply of caffeine pills to help me when I absolutely can't sleep at all. And I mean real caffeine pills, manufactured by the Soviet Union specifically for long-term storage in case of protracted warfare. Sweet deal out of Ukraine, meant to hit you like a bolt of lightning.

- Main goals are to create the top raiding/farming guild on Green and maintain complete dominance of the raid scene for the entire classic timeline. Think TMO and Aftermath, but more hostile and edgy and driven by the will to conquer.

I can get behind this. You have guild leader written all over you.

[Ivar]

Really surprised no one has mentioned jewelcrafting, wasn't it so profitable at the start.

[Widan]

It's semi profitable. Platinum rings, veils, necks are the money makers first six months. Then when sol ro gets added hp rings will be easy to make. Stuff using higher end gems won't be so common til Kunark. If you wanna sell the gold stuff to new players at the start you're going to have to move volume cause you won't be getting more than a 10-20pp profit on most of that stuff.

Whether any of that is more profitable than just farming loot as the most OP class in the game? Seems unlikely.

[Zuranthium]

People payed well for stat jewelry in Classic, but current age players won't value them as high. Stein of Moggok was also extremely lucrative, it was the item most wanted by INT casters aside from pretty looking +INT Robes. That thing seriously sold for up to 1,000 plat at the start of the Stein craze and literally everyone would get one as soon as they had the money for it. But people won't pay that these days since they have the wiki knowledge.

[Orionsaight]

im not going to be able to play until December but im looking forward to green. I figured that's what the announcement was about.

[Videri]

People payed well for stat jewelry in Classic, but current age players won't value them as high. Stein of Moggok was also extremely lucrative, it was the item most wanted by INT casters aside from pretty looking +INT Robes. That thing seriously sold for up to 1,000 plat at the start of the Stein craze and literally everyone would get one as soon as they had the money for it. But people won't pay that these days since they have the wiki knowledge.

Trying to knock down stein prices for your Green99 wizard, eh, Zuranthium? ;)

[Zuranthium]

Haha, more like my Necro, Enchanter, or Mage!

Not that I will play it, if they are just trying to slavishly copy the classic code. There's nothing left to play that game for. I want an immersive MMORPG (ideally with meaningful PvP), not a pixel farm fest where everyone is going to ignore the RPG element, where there's nothing left to discover, nothing worth competing for, and virtually no joy left.

[Nuggie]

I think we will find plenty of people enJOYing it because they missed P99 the first time around. I will probably have a presence due to Pantheon being so far out...

[Dulu]

I'll play on Green if it's PvE, but dear god I hope it's Teams PvP.

"Play nice" rules are such a huge PITA on fresh PvE servers, especially one like this with no dynamic spawns or layering. Everything is going to be camped, around the clock.

Killing people for camps would be so much more fun.

[Zuranthium]

I think we will find plenty of people enJOYing it because they missed P99 the first time around. I will probably have a presence due to Pantheon being so far out...

Perhaps some people will enjoy it. Don't think I will, Blue-server p99 bored me after 1 month when I found it (and I'm someone who ADORED the original Everquest). If the devs are only trying to copy the same old game code, it's going to play nothing like it did in 1999. It will be a hollow experience. I'm sure it will be marginally better than what current p99 is, because at least Old World era EQ has less boring timesinks and less twinking and creates a tighter community, but it's not going to be worth my time if they don't try to make the content more dynamic.

[aaezil]

Perhaps some people will enjoy it. Don't think I will, Blue-server p99 bored me after 1 month when I found it (and I'm someone who ADORED the original Everquest). If the devs are only trying to copy the same old game code, it's going to play nothing like it did in 1999. It will be a hollow experience. I'm sure it will be marginally better than what current p99 is, because at least Old World era EQ has less boring timesinks and less twinking and creates a tighter community, but it's not going to be worth my time if they don't try to make the content more dynamic.

After reading that i’m glad the devs are making these emu servers for their enjoyment not for yours or mine

[Zuranthium]

Hmm, everyone wants to create something for their own enjoyment. Or for profit, which they believe will allow them buy enjoyment. It's more a question of if people know how to do such a thing, and how many other people will agree with their opinion and want to join in the same type of enjoyment.

A lot of people are running in circles without finding what they are looking for, often thinking they are on the right path, when they aren't. Some people may know exactly what's best for themselves and a certain system, but not have the means of making it happen. Such is the world, but do have to fight to shape it how we think is best.

[Pogi]

I would like to main a ranger this go around, but will Rangers be completely shunned from groups on a fresh server?

[cactus]

I'll play on Green if it's PvE, but dear god I hope it's Teams PvP.

"Play nice" rules are such a huge PITA on fresh PvE servers, especially one like this with no dynamic spawns or layering. Everything is going to be camped, around the clock.

Killing people for camps would be so much more fun.

agreed

[Wallicker]

Locking down the locket of escape 24/7 until it stops dropping then owning a monopoly on fast mobilizations to ToV.

[Mewse]

I would like to main a ranger this go around, but will Rangers be completely shunned from groups on a fresh server?

If exp penalties are going to be around, hybrids in general are going to have a tough time I think. Since the exp penalty doesn't just apply to you, but your whole group.

It's dumb, but it's classic - so that's probably how it's going to be on Green.

[Nuggie]

Locking down the locket of escape 24/7 until it stops dropping then owning a monopoly on fast mobilizations to ToV.

The first time around there were a few guilds that did lock out certain camps. They eventually lost them for one reason or another. Server goes down, someone falls asleep, sloppy play and dies, etc.

I think whatever current play nice rules are will make this succeed/fail.

[loramin]

The first time around there were a few guilds that did lock out certain camps. They eventually lost them for one reason or another. Server goes down, someone falls asleep, sloppy play and dies, etc.

I think whatever current play nice rules are will make this succeed/fail.

Please, gods of P99, all it will take is a slight rules amendment to our current PnP (something to the effect of "all camps must be passed to the next person waiting in line") to completely eliminate "camp locks".

And P99 should eliminate them, because "camp locks" were very much not a part of classic EQ. Heck, if you read the guide book from back then, people weren't even forced to pass to the next in line: if two people disagreed over a camp the guide just showed up and (after trying to get the two to compromise) literally made them /random to see who got it!

And after the random, the winner was forced to hand the camp over to the other person. Try locking a camp down with those rules :)

8.2.3 Contested Spawn Complaints

When a complaint is received indicating that a spawn or kill is contested, a disruption investigation should first be initiated according to the procedures of section 8.2.2 to determine if harassment or Zone/Area disruption is occurring. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, instruct the parties involved in the contested spawn situation to work out a compromise. Then leave the scene.

If another complaint is received involving the same spawn site, another disruption investigation should be initiated. After following those procedures and issuing warnings as necessary, if any of the parties involved were involved in the initial situation, establish a compromise for the parties to which the parties are required to abide. The compromise should be as described in section 8.2.3.1. Any party refusing to abide by the compromise established by the CS Representative should be issued a warning for disruption.

8.2.2.2 When a Disruption call comes in, the process is as follows:

Identify the complainer and the suspected antagonist. Document their character name, level, zone, and account name.
Go to the zone in question, remaining invisible and anonymous, being sure not to tell
the petitioner you are coming.
Bring a fellow Guide if possible, preferably invisible and /anon.
Observe the behavior in question and that of those complaining.
If there is no problem with the behavior as you and your fellow Guide see it, then explain this to the complainer and close the call.

8.2.3.1 The compromise will require all parties to take turns killing the spawn(s). All parties involved in the contested spawn should be instructed to use /random 0 100 to choose a number. The CS Representative then uses /random 0 100. The individual with the closest number to the CS Representative’s number will be next in the rotation. The CS Representative then bases the rest of the rotation order on how close the other parties’ numbers were to theirs. The compromise established by a CS Representative must be objective and not require the CS Representative to choose one customer over another based on subjective criteria. The CS Representative is the arbiter in any disputes in establishing the compromise.

[Ltldogg]

Please, gods of P99, all it will take is a slight rules amendment (something to the effect of "all camps must be passed to the next person waiting in line") to completely eliminate "camp locks".

And P99 should eliminate them, because "camp locks" were very much not a part of classic EQ. Heck, if you read the guide book from back then, people weren't even forced to pass to the next in line: if someone else wanted the camp the guide just showed up and made the two random to see who got it!

Agree 100%

[fortior]

And P99 should eliminate them, because "camp locks" were very much not a part of classic EQ. Heck, if you read the guide book from back then, people weren't even forced to pass to the next in line: if two people disagreed over a camp the guide just showed up and (after trying to get the two to compromise) literally made them /random to see who got it!

Signed

[Wallicker]

Roflmao and you think the people here would t show up on 8 different toons to random against you?

[Seungkyu]

I would like to main a ranger this go around, but will Rangers be completely shunned from groups on a fresh server?

I think a lot of people are going to be starting as a solo class for farming. Enchanter/Druid/Necromancer. However, this will mean the rest of the server that is grouping will want a rare tank.

And this is where I'll step in with my Troll SK, and I think you should be able to tank as a ranger too.

That being said, as one of the few high level rangers you will have a chance for the legendary Scimitar of the Mistwalker. https://wiki.project1999.com/Scimitar_of_the_Mistwalker

[fortior]

Roflmao and you think the people here would t show up on 8 different toons to random against you?

If they have 8 toons logged at that spot capable of killing the mob then why not

[SuperSsyke]

Manastone? I'll get more use out of a Greater Lightstone. Mask? Ninja please...

My strategy would be 100% dependent upon the state of bard mechanics and the stance of the GMs on swarm kiting...


Run it like Shining Time Station! Chew-Chew!

[OngorDrakan]

What is Green going to be? Besides for you youngins. Get it. Green. Green behind the ears. Hairless. I dont get it.

[Nuggie]

Uhh.... If that was a serious question(or for those that don't know): it is going to be a fresh server launched, as close as possible, from day 1. No kunark, no patches(those get automagically added at the specific time they did on live[in theory]). Everyone starts at level 1.

[Orionsaight]

I wish it started with kunark. but I was so bummed out when EQ died; so I don't want to rain on someone elses parade. Also would love team pvp too. That would be quite a gamble to make though.

[pink grapefruit]

What is Green going to be? Besides for you youngins. Get it. Green. Green behind the ears. Hairless. I dont get it.

It's "green" bc it recycles by starting over again at day 1 classic once the sleeper is killed. It will be pvp teams, though we don't yet know what the teams will be.

[Nuggie]

Allegedly recycles. Hasn't been confirmed by management. Would be really cool though.

[Dulu]

It's "green" bc it recycles by starting over again at day 1 classic once the sleeper is killed. It will be pvp teams, though we don't yet know what the teams will be.

Good!

I've waited 9 years for Teams PvP!

Thank the gods! So glad they confirmed this.

[pink grapefruit]

Good!

I've waited 9 years for Teams PvP!

Thank the gods! So glad they confirmed this.

I knowwwww!

finally the people are getting what they want :)

so excited <3

[Fammaden]

You red people are like some weird cult recruiters, except instead of being a successful scam like Scientology or Lularoe, everyone just laughs at you or ignores you.

[cactus]

It's "green" bc it recycles by starting over again at day 1 classic once the sleeper is killed. It will be pvp teams, though we don't yet know what the teams will be.

green isn't a teams server. nobody has ever said that.

green is a recycling pve server as far as anyone knows.

You red people are like some weird cult recruiters, except instead of being a successful scam like Scientology or Lularoe, everyone just laughs at you or ignores you.

stfu.

[Orionsaight]

pve servers are for doctors and emergency workers on call. Jk do what u want :). sorry am I going too off topic?

[Scribin]

My first goal is to unlock meditate without losing my sanity. My only pro strat is never trying any of the auto-chess clones until green comes out in the hopes that it can entertain me while standing there waiting for my hp/mp to regen and that I don't get bored of it before I get meditate.



I don't want to burst your bubble but a round of TFT takes anywhere from 15-30 minutes to finish and I heard AutoChess/underlords games last even longer xD

[Scribin]

There's 20 pages in this thread and maybe... 1 page with posts about the title of the thread... let's get back to day dreaming about when green goes live. There is a sub forum where people are encouraged to post their rants all day long. If you find yourself in an online argument with somebody, type out your argument in notepad, save it and close note pad. come back the next day and see if you still feel like posting it.

[Buellen]

South Qeynos:

Water flask quest Great expierence at 5 BUT make you quickly kos to corrupt guards which happen to spawn mostly at night time found out hard way doing test runs.

hope the helps some folks.

PS

Crate quest runs with a few tax collection quest turn's in after reaching level 2 reached level 4 in 44 mins. tried water flask quest till level 5.5 before got creamed by corrupt guards .

[loramin]

South Qeynos:

Water flask quest Great expierence at 5 BUT make you quickly kos to corrupt guards which happen to spawn mostly at night time found out hard way doing test runs.

hope the helps some folks.

PS

Crate quest runs with a few tax collection quest turn's in after reaching level 2 reached level 4 in 44 mins. tried water flask quest till level 5.5 before got creamed by corrupt guards .

For anyone who is interested, with Green coming I figured the wiki could really use guides for each starting city, covering all the basic details about quests and such (stuff like what's in that quote). So, I created a bunch of broken links on the wiki's guides page (http://wiki.project1999.com/Players:Adventure), and then made a Halas Guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Halas_Starting_Guide) to get the ball rolling.

Amazingly enough someone else picked that ball up and made an awesome Kelethin guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Kelethin_Starting_Guide). So, no pressure on anyone, but if the idea of sharing tips on how to get started on Green appeals to you, feel free to edit these guides.

You don't have to go hardcore and make an entire guide either; if everyone who reads this post were to add just one sentence worth of knowledge to just one guide page ... we'd have a bunch of complete guides in no time.

[Ltldogg]

For anyone who is interested, with Green coming I figured the wiki could really use guides for each starting city, covering all the basic details about quests and such (stuff like what's in that quote). So, I created a bunch of broken links on the wiki's guides page (http://wiki.project1999.com/Players:Adventure), and then made a Halas Guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Halas_Starting_Guide) to get the ball rolling.

Amazingly enough someone else picked that ball up and made an awesome Kelethin guide (http://wiki.project1999.com/Kelethin_Starting_Guide). So, no pressure on anyone, but if the idea of sharing tips on how to get started on Green appeals to you, feel free to edit these guides.

You don't have to go hardcore and make an entire guide either; if everyone who reads this post were to add just one sentence worth of knowledge to just one guide page ... we'd have a bunch of complete guides in no time.

This is excellent loramin. Thanks for the work you put in; it will be extremely helpful for many!

[jolanar]

The Halas starting guide is missing two quests IMO.

The first is the wooly mammoth calf quests for Rogues that gets them a full set of black tinted banded armor if done enough times.

The second is the orc bracer quest. Orc bracers from troopers and shamans when given 2 at a time to Cindl nets you a piece of leather armor. Either chest, legs or gloves.

Both of these quests can be done in early/mid teens.

[loramin]

The Halas starting guide is missing two quests IMO.

The first is the wooly mammoth calf quests for Rogues that gets them a full set of black tinted banded armor if done enough times.

The second is the orc bracer quest. Orc bracers from troopers and shamans when given 2 at a time to Cindl nets you a piece of leather armor. Either chest, legs or gloves.

Both of these quests can be done in early/mid teens.

You're totally right. Any chance I can talk you into editing the wiki and adding those (because I love to see more people contribute to the wiki? :D)

If not I'll add them when I can.

[ineubis]

Early goals/strats:

- Make another DE SK
- Answer unsolicited questions like "Why did you make a dark elf?" and "Is a DE SK any good?" for the rest of his life.
- Repeat

[Ltldogg]

My early goals:

1. Play classes I enjoy
2. Group with people and make new friends
3. Enjoy the best content of any game I've ever played
4. Enjoy the new car smell and high population

[Jibartik]

South Qeynos: Water flask quest

I can't figure out what quest you were talking about, there are 3 that reward you with a water flask, but none where you turn one in?

[Videri]

I can't figure out what quest you were talking about, there are 3 that reward you with a water flask, but none where you turn one in?

Guard Lasen is parched!

[stebbins99]

Sup Jibartik! It's a quest wherein you hand water flasks to a guard in south qeynos. It makes you KoS to corrupt guards in qeynos very quickly. They dude that you turn the H20 into wanders around a bit and also disappears at night. I got a druid up to lvl 5 in like 30 minutes but was already KoS to corrupt guards

[Nuggie]

Exp on this quest sounds broken.

[Jibartik]

Exp on this quest sounds broken.

I imagine this is classic "real quick" everquest time dilation.

You know when someone is like, Ill be there in 5

Then they show up 4 hours later and are like, all I did was buy rations I was here right on time!

But that said if it is not that is definitely broken lol

[jolanar]

You're totally right. Any chance I can talk you into editing the wiki and adding those (because I love to see more people contribute to the wiki? :D)

If not I'll add them when I can.

Done!

[loramin]

Done!

:D

[Nuggie]

I imagine this is classic "real quick" everquest time dilation.

You know when someone is like, Ill be there in 5

Then they show up 4 hours later and are like, all I did was buy rations I was here right on time!

But that said if it is not that is definitely broken lol

Wiki says says 8 water for 1% of level 11. I saw a post on the TAKP saying level 11 is 330K'ish exp. 3.3K / 8 = 412. If that post was ballpark close this isn't super. Not many are going to be able to afford making it game breaking at the start though with how fast exp scales up each level, I think.

[OngorDrakan]

Train to zone is the game I play.
FD is the way I stay.
Hope your SoW don't go away.

Peace.

[Zuranthium]

We don't know the server details yet, but assuming they stick to their "exact classic code" mantra, it will be a particularly annoying because of how many un-Classic changes there will be. Let's look at the code differences in early/mid 1999 that currently seem like they won't be reflected on Green p99:

01.) There was no Play Nice Policy, it was only exploits that GM's cared about, or maybe sometimes training when it was the same person doing it non-stop (and that wasn't something people were banned for, it was just a warning and maybe the person gets ported out of the zone if they don't stop for awhile).

02.) Player corpses could be looted by anyone who was consented. My immediate thought was that this is a bad classic feature, but actually it could add an interesting dynamic for a server like p99 during this era. It means corpse recovery is a bigger challenge if you don't absolutely trust someone. In a highly experienced and linked-in community like this, an individual's rep would go to shit instantly if they kept someone's items...unless they did it to a player who is part of an opposing faction. Between not having a Play Nice Policy and this feature, it's like having soft-coded PvP. More competition and social dynamic to players' actions.

03.) Necromancer and Enchanter summoned pets (Skeletons and Animations) had their attack speed lowered when given low-delay weapons, and the Enchanter summoned pets had less health than their current p99 numbers. Mage pets couldn't use weapons for quite some time, until several months after the pet nerf that took away the attack delay "bug" and lowered the overall power level of the Level 44 + 49 pets.

04.) Casting spells inherently reset your attack timer, ie - slowed down your attack speed. This meant that trying to cast and melee at the same time was significantly less powerful.

05.) Mage summoned item "Sword of Runes" procced on all targets, not just Elementals, when given to pets. Took a long time for the playerbase to figure out, since the Mage pets couldn't use weapons for so long and low-delay weapons were better before that changed. Also, Water Pets had additional health regeneration and the Fire Pet had to cast its damage shield on itself after being summoned, sometimes taking a non-trivial amount of time to do so (and won't do it while engaged in combat); things which still aren't even fixed on current p99 I don't think.

06.) The Necromancer "heal other players with your own health" spell used to not have recast delay, and early in the game their Lifetaps were completely unresistible by any target. Necromancer-only guilds were easily able to clear out Plane of Fear.

07.) Plane of Fear came out about 3.5 months after the game's launch and initially didn't have a minimum level requirement. It was only open for a month like that, before being shut down for several weeks and then re-opened. Plane of Hate came about a month after Fear re-opened, launched by an event in Kithicor. The frequency of item drops in the Planes was much lower than the current rate, until about 3 months after Plane of Hate was released.

08.) Hybrid classes had no meditate, their mana pool was much smaller, and they got some of their spells at a later level or not at all, as compared to Kunark timeline. I discussed this many years ago, but not sure if the devs ever put it in a database to be fixed for future servers (don't think it was fixed when Red server launched in pre-Kunark era).

09.) Charm had no message when it broke (for any class who could do it). Semi-related: Enchanter "Whirl Til You Hurl" was very OP in the earliest era of the game.

10.) Cities had much faster respawn timers on NPCS - things were very hunted for exp and cash in these places. Similarly, shopkeepers everywhere were exp-killable and didn't artificially take less damage than normal.

11.) Rogue hide/sneak was no different than normal invis and their backstab had a much lower minimum damage (and of course no Evade, but I assume the devs would at least get this right for a new server launch; Rogues didn't get it until nearly Kunark). Also, they could potentially pick-pocket ANY item from any NPC. Drama!!

12.) Shaman potion making didn't work.

13.) It was pitch-black at night, and in various underground places, without a lightsource or Infra/Ultra vision (which themselves had unique color tints), and overall the game was darker when it wasn't daytime with clear weather. This being an issue with the p99 client is certainly a difficult problem, but I do wonder exactly how much work they've put into trying to make it as Classic as possible.

14.) Needing to look at the Spellbook when meditating until Level 35, and the Spellbook taking up the entire screen whenever opened. The latter issue is allegedly a p99 client problem, but the former is not. That said...it was overkill in Classic. Something like having the Spellbook partially covering the screen until your Meditation skill hits 60 (level 11 for casters), and only fully covering it when re-arranging the spellbook itself, would make more sense.

[Videri]

Damn, Zur! I pray to Mithaniel Marr for the courage to play on Project Zuranthium.

[heartbrand]

As a guide during the PnP area, you absolutely would get warned/suspended/banned for KS'ing / racism / training, etc. I don't know where you're getting "exploits" only from. Maybe like the first week of live or something they didn't police training but there absolutely was punishment for that stuff.

[Zuranthium]

As a guide during the PnP era

Why are you talking about the PnP era? Of course there was punishment after it got put in, but the Play Nice Policy didn't exist for quite some time (I don't remember the exact date it was put in, some help researching this would be nice). There was absolutely allowable "killstealing", see also how the Pantheon devs who worked on original EQ want that feature in their new game. Training was definitely a thing too, and people started getting very tactical doing it with Feign Death. GM's would step in when it was considered overly excessive, but before the PnP came into existence it was not something a person could be banned for (unless considered an exploit with pathing). It was just an emergent aspect of gameplay, like kiting things around with DoT's. Extremely foul language / harassment was of course always off limits, but that should be obvious.

[tsuchang]

Originally Posted by Thugnuts View Post
- Poop in bags. I've already been saving my plastic grocery store bags for several weeks and have a proper toilet seat mounted to a 5 gallon bucket. I'm also lucky in that my garbage pick up bin is right below my bedroom window. It's still a solid 12 feet away from my desk, but I'm thinking I can just rush to the window between spawns and throw my poop bags directly into my can for the garbage collection on Mondays.

It would be great if there was a two or three story drop to the container just for the sound effect.

[Jibartik]

I love classic EQ but I don't understand how the PnP is bad or not classic?

Like what do people want, if they don't like the play nice policy?

You after like a 2 month run where training is allowed? Serious question, I know it sounds sarcastic but I am genuinely curious when i hear someone say they don't think the PnP is classic, what they are after.

Seperate note:

15.) Dots did full damage on mobs while they ran for like 2? 3 months?

[Buellen]

God yes @Jibartik

So Silly that people got pissed at druids because they could kite anything boooo. would be fun to have that capability again even if only for 3 months 8).

I rem people would send hate tells because i would kite mobs in commons lands that they could not think of killing without a full grp.

[loramin]

We don't know the server details yet, but assuming they stick to their "exact classic code" mantra, it will be a particularly annoying because of how many un-Classic changes there will be. Let's look at the code differences in early/mid 1999 that currently seem like they won't be reflected on Green p99:

01.) There was no Play Nice Policy, it was only exploits that GM's cared about, or maybe sometimes training when it was the same person doing it non-stop (and that wasn't something people were banned for, it was just a warning and maybe the person gets ported out of the zone if they don't stop for awhile).

02.) Player corpses could be looted by anyone who was consented. My immediate thought was that this is a bad classic feature, but actually it could add an interesting dynamic for a server like p99 during this era. It means corpse recovery is a bigger challenge if you don't absolutely trust someone. In a highly experienced and linked-in community like this, an individual's rep would go to shit instantly if they kept someone's items...unless they did it to a player who is part of an opposing faction. Between not having a Play Nice Policy and this feature, it's like having soft-coded PvP. More competition and social dynamic to players' actions.

...

The devs have already made clear (prior even to Green's announcement) that there are some classic thing P99 just won't have. Not necessarily because the staff doesn't want them, but because they're too much work for too little benefit.

Project M and dropping coins on the ground will be like this, and (I believe) being able to loot someone else's corpse when consented will also (but I'm only 99% certain because I only save GM quotes about rulings, not ones about Green ... anyone else is welcome to look through old staff postings for proof though :)).

As for all the other things on that impressive list Zur compiled, we've got just two months left. File bugs on it if you care, but otherwise ... the staff will either explicitly tell us which classic things they won't do in the big "pre-Green announcement" ... or else they won't, and in two months we'll login and see for ourselves,

The point is, it's reasonable to expect that anything which is dramatically different from how Blue works now, and which only existed on Live for a short time, probably won't be on Green. And for the next two months, other than speculating wildly, all we can do is have some patience ...
https://i.imgur.com/T1Kzx9S.jpg

[Zuranthium]

I love classic EQ but I don't understand how the PnP is bad or not classic?

The PnP is not classic because it factually was not in the game for a LONG time. I'm pretty sure it didn't get implemented until 2000, and definitely was not in the game for the first 6 months. And it's bad because it makes the game boring.

Even beyond that, the PnP on p99 right now isn't what it was in classic!! Back then, the PnP stated that all camps must be shared among anyone who shows up and wants to camp it, which is NOT how things work here.

Seperate note: Dots did full damage on mobs while they ran for like 2? 3 months?

It didn't get changed until 6 months into the game. DoT's actually had slightly lower durations up until that point; they were nerfed for kiting purposes but buffed for root rotting or fear kiting or tank-and-spank.

The devs have already made clear (prior even to Green's announcement) that there are some classic thing P99 just won't have. Not necessarily because the staff doesn't want them, but because they're too much work for too little benefit.

Allowing people to compete for content by outdamaging each other requires 0 effort. No game code change, no GM intervention needed. It actually cuts down on the amount of work GM's have to do, because any petitions about "killstealing" get auto-ignored, since that's how the game works.

If they are blatantly ignoring something that was essential to 1999 Everquest and requires nothing at all to implement (while declaring they are trying to make the game as classic as possible), then they are massive hypocrits and bad designers.

[loramin]

If they are blatantly ignoring something that was essential to 1999 Everquest and requires nothing at all to implement (while declaring they are trying to make the game as classic as possible), then they are massive hypocrits and bad designers.

Yeah, they could be "hypocrits and bad designers" .. or maybe they just don't agree with you that people being assholes to each other is an essential part of what classic EQ was all about.

[Nuggie]

Zuranthium, I like your passion, but I think you're not going to get what you want.

[Jimjam]

Lack of universal PNP doesn't mean there was no intervention. Previous to PNP enforcement was down to GM initiative.

All PNP did was codify enforcement to achieve a parity of standards across servers. It is disingenuous to stipulate no PNP = total anarchic Wild West Ffa.

[Zuranthium]

Yeah, they could be "hypocrits and bad designers" .. or maybe they just don't agree with you that people being assholes to each other is an essential part of what classic EQ was all about.

It's not "being assholes" to each other. It's competition. It's the game world being alive. It's social dynamic. The people who don't want to compete for content are free to band together, blacklist all of the "Kill Stealers" from their guilds and groups, and avoid the areas where they know others are going to be fighting over content (or call in reinforcements to areas where you were "there first" and feel you have claim to). That's exactly what happened back in the day.

The MOST asshole policy of all is the one p99 currently has. People allowed to indefinitely solo-lock camps. Have no skill and no life? Then p99 is for you! This is not classic in any way at all. If there is going to be a Play Nice Policy, then it should be the one that was actually put into the game eventually - people sharing camps.

The current p99 policy also encourages RMT. A small group of players being able to indefinitely lock down camps means they get sole ownership over certain items on a server, and thus can create a business around selling those items to everyone else, who now have a 0% chance of obtaining that item without buying it.

Lack of universal PNP doesn't mean there was no intervention. Previous to PNP enforcement was down to GM initiative.

All PNP did was codify enforcement to achieve a parity of standards across servers. It is disingenuous to stipulate no PNP = total anarchic Wild West Ffa.

It was explicitly the intent of the game designers to have competition, and there are articles written by players circa September 1999 talking about their tactics for combating "kill stealers". At no point is "petitioning a GM" ever mentioned as a solution. The game was most definitely a FFA during 1999.

GM's had power to intervene, but they were not there to stop competition. They were there to stop exploits, to pull players out of being bugged into a wall, and to stop extreme harassment (verbal abuse, or a high level player specifically following around a low level player and killing everything the low-level player engages).

[Halfcell]

Zuranthium, whether it is "classic" or not, p99's history has pretty clearly proven that the PnP is necessary. Hell it's present shows that. Riot had a BP of Eradication ninjalooted not a week ago. How many times would I have to train that guy, or steal his kills, or how much would I have to ruin his reputation to make that a fair trade?

Yes, the corpse probably should have been locked down, and normally stuff like that is, but that's no more a justification for stealing than saying and unlocked front door means you should get to rob a house.

Another example, I took a shot at soloing Aillysh the other day on my shaman. You are telling me that someone should have been able to roll up and memblur her at 5% and steal that kill? With no repercussions? I guess I could just follow them around for weeks and train them every chance I had right?

PnP exists for the same reason laws exist in the real world. So that when someone robs my house I can go to the cops instead of finding him and shooting him. The strong praying on the weak is bad, but the shitty praying on the vengeful creates a cascading effect of damage that never ends, never stops, and hurts more than just those involved to begin with.

[fortior]

It's not "being assholes" to each other. It's competition.

It's not real competition. It's implementing the one kind of competition your favorite classes excel at while preventing the other classes from fighting back through pvp.

[Zuranthium]

It's not real competition.

LOL, it's exactly "real competition". Most damage done = win. The same as whoever is the highest jumper or fast runner or scores the most goals, wins in an athletic competition. What's not real competition is declaring everyone a winner regardless of skill and performance (which is what the original PnP catered to), or even worse, the current p99 mechanic of people being able to own a camp by doing nothing but sitting around. That mechanic not only rewards having no skill, but also actively blocks other people from even trying.

Similarly, the mechanic of "who tags a spawn first" when that's an option is extremely stupid as well; something that essentially comes down to random luck or who happens to live closest to the server host, to have the fastest ping.

The biggest issue is zerg guilds for high end content, and that exists these days regardless of being allowed to have competition via DPS or not. In actual classic-era Everquest, a huge zerg force would lag people out, and thus actually make it less desirable have huge numbers at a single raid. Which is a really good argument for why p99 should implement raid size limits: it would recreate how classic EQ actually played. They already nerfed AOE farming with the argument that people couldn't do it to such an extent back then because of getting lagged out (and that's entirely true).

It's implementing the one kind of competition your favorite classes excel at while preventing the other classes from fighting back through pvp.

Has nothing to do with my favorite classes, only the facts of how the game actually was. Other classes aren't prevented from fighting back either, what are you talking about? Melee were relatively weak until Kunark, but that's simply classic. Even still, a melee with decent weapons in 1999 can still add more DPS to the score total than a Wizard. If you are contesting a high content area, then a "burst" caster allows you to win specific NPC's, but means you will lose many as well.

Zuranthium, whether it is "classic" or not, p99's history has pretty clearly proven that the PnP is necessary. Hell it's present shows that. Riot had a BP of Eradication ninjalooted not a week ago. How many times would I have to train that guy, or steal his kills, or how much would I have to ruin his reputation to make that a fair trade?

The answer is entirely up to you. That's supposed to be how a real MMORPG operates.

If an item at a raid is ninjalooted by someone not in the guild, then it inherently means the guild failed anyway. The rules of the game are that corpses become unlocked to the non-winning party after a certain amount of time. The world owns the corpse at that point, not any individual group. Also, the concept of "ninjalooting" was in fact ALLOWED by Rogues during early era Everquest! Their pick pocket skill was designed to do exactly that. They were supposed to be shadowy figures within the game, not DPS bots.

Another example, I took a shot at soloing Aillysh the other day on my shaman. You are telling me that someone should have been able to roll up and memblur her at 5% and steal that kill? With no repercussions? I guess I could just follow them around for weeks and train them every chance I had right.

Damage dealt = the winner. If you did 95% damage, then you're the winner. Memblur shouldn't be working like that; people in 1999 weren't aware of the mechanic, if it was even working like that at the time (or may have been told not to do it by GM's), otherwise top guilds would have used it early on to power level their alts. Something like this falls under the realm of what would have been considered an exploit, so it's not allowed.

[fortior]

LOL, it's exactly "real competition". Most damage done = win. The same as whoever is the highest jumper or fast runner or scores the most goals, wins in an athletic competition. What's not real competition is declaring everyone a winner regardless of skill and performance (which is what the original PnP catered to), or even worse, the current p99 mechanic of people being able to own a camp by doing nothing but sitting around. That mechanic not only rewards having no skill, but also actively blocks other people from even trying.

Similarly, the mechanic of "who tags a spawn first" when that's an option is extremely stupid as well; something that essentially comes down to random luck or who happens to live closest to the server host, to have the fastest ping.

Rules you don't like: rules giving melees good odds as well.

Rules you do like: rules which allow any caster anywhere to take a mob a melee player wants without any recourse.

I get it, you want to have an easier time on the new server, but you should really just get good instead of hiding your real intentions behind another twenty-line forum post about how the PnP should be nixed (but please don't enable PvP because my poor caster butt might get owned!)

Green is going to recreate the classic video game. The classic experience will never be recreated, unless you want to put everyone on dial-up again, blind casters while medding, remove wikis, etc. The classic video game environment is recreated, everything else (PnP, /petition rules, player agreements) doesn't have to adhere to your memories. If p99's community was on classic EQ from day 1, the PnP would have been implemented on day 2.

[Jimjam]

The following players have been banned from the Phase 4 EverQuest beta test for failure to comply with repeated warnings against exploiting mobs and other PvP+ players on the Rallos Zek server.
Chat Handle/Character Name:
Tweed/Tweed
Bendoggius/Smizzurf
Lucenthawk/Lucenthawk
Jakila/Revken
DustyAirs/Amoush
lou76/Llan

The following player has been banned for ignoring repeated warnings against the use of profanity and racial slurs on the Chat server.
Moonrings


CSR classic since beta.

[Zuranthium]

Rules you don't like: rules giving melees good odds as well.

Rules you do like: rules which allow any caster anywhere to take a mob a melee player wants without any recourse.

I get it, you want to have an easier time on the new server, but you should really just get good instead of hiding your real intentions behind another twenty-line forum post about how the PnP should be nixed

This is incredibly stupid. Take your entirely wrong assumptions and straw-man arguments elsewhere.

Green is going to recreate the classic video game.

The classic video game is exactly as I have been describing. You just don't understand what EQ was, or don't want to listen to the facts.

The classic experience will never be recreated, unless you want to put everyone on dial-up again, blind casters while medding, remove wikis, etc.

That wouldn't recreate the classic experience, since we already have the zone/mechanics knowledge, and things like casters needing to look at the spellbook is in fact "the classic video game". Nor can wikis be controlled by a developer; they are inherent to the internet now.

Something close to (or better than...) the classic experience can be recreated, but it won't happen using the exact classic game code. Regardless, if creating the classic code accurately is what p99 is purporting to do, then that's what they should do. This includes the PnP (or lack thereof), as it is literally a game code set forth by the original designers, as in any D&D game.

However, there have been modifications on p99 that strive to make it closer to the classic experience, rather than the exact game code at the time. Some things will always be a battle between "how the game actually played decades ago" vs "how the game code works with modern technology and player knowledge". With more than 1 type of server, the devs don't need to limit themselves to one specific thing in the first place. There are options, and we don't yet know the exact Green server specifics.

CSR classic since beta.

...and your point is? That only solidifies exactly what I've said. People were banned only for exploits or hate speech before the PnP. Also where are you pulling that from?

[Jimjam]

revisions.txt from the eq folder.

[fortior]

The PnP was implemented when it was needed on live. A version of it has been implemented on p99 'earlier' (with regards to the timeline at least), since p99 isn't played by a MMO-naive population and needed it at an earlier time.

[Orionsaight]

Sorry to get more off topic. If I could just put in my two cents. I think luclin made me think EQ was forever unchangeable. But things have to change over time one day. Maybe EQ just has had more changes for the worst than for the better. But as long as the game is 92 percent classic, im happy /shrugs.

[Zuranthium]

The PnP was implemented when it was needed on live.

It was implemented when it was implemented. People were "KSing" since the start. The company made a decision that they felt would suit their financial interests, the same as new features put in for any of the expansions.

The game was originally meant to have players competing, if opposing parties wanted to fight for the same content. That's how it worked in MUDs, and EQ was based off MUDS, which the designers were avid players of. It's what is slated to be in Pantheon.

There are two main reasons for why the PnP came to be:

1. Server overcrowding: there were way too many players on most of the servers as the game's lifespan grew, and the company failed to implement new servers and control server populations well enough.

2. Newage players entering into the game: as the game went on, it became less and less of an RPG, and new players just wanted to level as fast as possible in order to catch up with their higher level friends, or to "beat the game". Lots of influx of players who weren't there for an open world MUD-type experience, and instead came from a console type gaming expectation.

[fortior]

You're assuming release-day EQ was the finished product as envisioned by the devs. The incomplete quests and random useless quest items show the opposite.

It's not a competition if the only way to fight is to deliver damage to a bag of monster HP. That's like making two pro boxers slug it out against the same sandbag inside the ring.

[Zuranthium]

You're assuming release-day EQ was the finished product as envisioned by the devs. The incomplete quests and random useless quest items show the opposite.

No that isn't what I'm assuming. What does certain things being incomplete in the game have to do with the fact that the devs intended for people to be able to fight over NPC's? Moreover, what does it have to do with the fact that it was allowed for a long time in classic, when we are talking about what the classic code was? Here also is a quote on their stance:

"Someone coming into your camp and killing your mobs is not griefing or malicious. You might not like it, but it's not against any rule. If they stay there and you compete with them for 5 hours and lose all mobs, that's still not griefing or malicious."

It's not a competition if the only way to fight is to deliver damage to a bag of monster HP.

I think you need to learn the definition of competition. It may not be the most complex or skillful form, but it's certainly better than the alternative of "whoever pings a target first" or no competition at all. This is PvE, in a game 20 years old. You keep trying to talk about damage dealt not being competition, while offering no better alternative, and acting like the worse options are a better form of competition. It seems like you just want to sit in front of a spawn all day long and be able to mindlessly farm pixels.

[Zuranthium]

I've found the date of when the Play Nice Policy was implemented - March 14, 2000. So for an entire year it wasn't in the game. This particular clause is especially important:

Contested Spawns
There are cases where two or more groups wish to kill the same thing. In these cases, the groups are required to compromise.

The PnP on p99 is no way classic. Never, ever, ever in the game was it meant for someone to be able to sit at a camp non-stop and own it, if there were other players there who wanted to contest.

Page 26 -- https://www.scribd.com/doc/53542242/48825912-EverQuest-the-Ruins-of-Kunark-Revised-Expanded-Prima-Official-eGuide

[enjchanter]

Im gunna play another enchanter but i think im gunna go dark elf this time

[fortior]

I've found the date of when the Play Nice Policy was implemented - March 14, 2000. So for an entire year it wasn't in the game. This particular clause is especially important

Okay, I don't like it, but after reading up on that quote as well as the PnP with the links you posted, I gotta say you're right. This particular version and timeline of the PnP is more classic. I think the team will go for some kind of PnP from the start though, just to get rid of all the petition spam.

[kerafym]

10 practically homeless bald men

:D:D:D

[E-Queue]

I just love the Qeynos area. QHills, Blackburrow, and Karana bandits are so fun and nostalgic. I'll definitely be starting there. There's great money to be had off bandit sashes and GLs from NK (assuming you can find a magic weapon!) for an early leg up economically. I'll probably play as either a druid, a ranger, or an enchanter. Or maybe a paladin or SK or monk or...

Okay, so I only have the starting location decided. Class TBD! Should be fun.

[Rick Sanchez]

Lower Guk will be the biggest shit show ever.

[loramin]

The whole thing that's missing from the "classic PnP or not" debate is the basic fact that we don't have a classic staff. Live did.

By necessity we can't have the same PnP policies (or "on the fly non-PnP" policies), because we have a few very kind people who generously donate their time to help resolve conflicts ... vs. live which had at least one paid GM "assigned' to a server, plus other rotating paid GMs, plus "Guides" that were paid with free game time.

Same reason we can't have boxing even though that'd be more classic too: we're just not live.

[Dolalin]

Everyone says the Qeynos area is the place to level, but I bet it'll be so rammed at launch that individual gnolls will be camped in BB. So I bet you'd make faster xp in a place like AkAnon or Rivervale where there's less crowding.

[jolanar]

FYI if you level a mage to 8 first, you can summon magic weapons (1h pierce and 2hb), bandages, food, water and 4 slot 100% WR bags for any alt you want. Might be something to consider.

[Jibartik]

I dont understand the PnP debate at all.

It sounds exactly like someone saying "this server isnt classic because I have already camped all these zones in 1999"

It just doesnt seem any different than that to me.

anyway someone once told me this "Shutup, not everyone plays EQ the way you do" and I stopped trying to tell people what was right or wrong.

I feel like if you have a problem with PnP you just have to suck it up, the majority of players dont agree with you.

[Zuranthium]

The whole thing that's missing from the "classic PnP or not" debate is the basic fact that we don't have a classic staff. Live did.

By necessity we can't have the same PnP policies (or "on the fly non-PnP" policies), because we have a few very kind people who generously donate their time to help resolve conflicts.

This isn't true in the slightest. It doesn't take any more GM support to have the classic PnP of "people must take turns at camps, in order of who showed up; no single person owns a camp."

And as already mentioned, it takes less GM support to allow competition over content, which is how the game actually operated for an entire year in classic. Any petitions about "kill-stealing" just get auto ignored (unless it's a higher level player specifically following someone everywhere they go and killing everything they try to fight, which is considered harassment, and should be stated as such by the person petitioning - no different than now).

[Jibartik]

Is this guy still trying to convince everyone what makes EQ classic is how the owners of the server handle petitions?

[loramin]

This isn't true in the slightest. It doesn't take any more GM support to have the classic PnP of "people must take turns at camps, in order of who showed up; no single person owns a camp."

And as already mentioned, it takes less GM support to allow competition over content, which is how the game actually operated for an entire year in classic. Any petitions about "kill-stealing" just get auto ignored (unless it's a higher level player specifically following someone everywhere they go and killing everything they try to fight, which is considered harassment, and should be stated as such by the person petitioning - no different than now).

I would point out that if the classic rules were enforced here the staff would do nothing except show up and conduct rolls over who gets what ... but you know, let's not and say we did. This conversation isn't even worth having.

Is this guy still trying to convince everyone what makes EQ classic is how the owners of the server handle petitions?