Someone Translate this wall of text from Omni

[maskedmelon]

This is getting extremely convoluted and circuitous. I never said any of those things, at this point you're just arguing against what you think the mentality of most raiders on the server is. Not what I've actually said in this or other threads. I've ONLY pointed out the time investment by leadership and key members, I've never claimed that entire guilds work just as hard as they do. As a matter of fact I literally called them cogs in the loot machine.

A guild is a team, and the only people who should be concerned about team members not pulling their weight are the people in charge of and on that team. If the leadership and key members are willing to give them loot for showing up and doing whatever it is they need them to do, there's nothing illegitimate about that player getting loot. These players don't negate the time put in by the leadership or key member.

The end result of the teams efforts as a whole are what matter, not whether or not an outsider has determined that x amount of the players didn't work hard enough and thus aren't meeting the criteria for "competing" or "deserving" loot.

going to step in here and declare ChampionStanding winner of this word war for his use of "circuitous," a very fine word indeed and most deserving of these 5 points.

5 points to Griffondor.

Also, for continued excellence in trolling with shiptoast, I'm awarding loramin 5 internet points and nominate him for server guide.

5 points to Slytherin.

[pogs4ever]

GM Event quake once a year (p99 or classic anniversary) where targets are divided up. Killed in the most classic style as possible instead of the most efficient. Take screenshots/video. Marketing for your guild and p99 server.

Put on your bronze and mithril two hander and fight Nagafen. Fight faydedar in the water. Crawl up to inny’s room and get grav fluxed 100 yards constantly. Bust into the thurgadin royal court and murder everyone red-wedding esque. A dead tormax in front of his throne of whoever’s dragon head that is.

That’s my dream for a rotation/classic nostalgia experiences. The other 51+ cycles be competition or whatever.

[tyrant49333]

If you want a rotation just go to the live servers where you and your substandard guild can wipe over and over in an instanced raid zone in peace

[Legday]

I never said any of those things, at this point you're just arguing against what you think the mentality of most raiders on the server is. Not what I've actually said in this or other threads.

qft

[Ripqozko]

As opposed to the exemplary humility demonstrated by those on the other side of this discussion:





Yes, a real class act in humility for sure.

Don't worry, unless you've designated the bronze armor I collect in Mistmoore to gift to new players leveling up in Gfay as your pixels too, you don't have to worry about me taking any of your precious pixels. Both guilds I have been a part of no longer exist on this server due to the toxic raid scene.

Have no concern. I know my place on the loot/raid totem pole that has been assigned to me by the neckbeard society here based on my work-life balance. And just in case I forgot, I know I can always come here to have it rubbed in my face. :)

glad you know your place, moved to resolved.

[Kefit]

Just handle raid mobs the same as the Drusella and Lucan camps.

Each raid mob is its own camp and can be held as such between spawns. Your guild has to maintain a presence in the camp and clear the trash whenever it pops. Do this for a week uninterrupted and that raid mob is yours whenever it spawns.

Now any guild can get any mob they want, though they'll need to take care to not wipe to a flurry drake that pops at 2am or whatever.

[YendorLootmonkey]

glad you know your place, moved to resolved.

Thanks, prick.

[Baylan295]

Omni is not an uber guild though. They are trying to argue the rules from the sideline. The current raid competition between AM / Core / AG is quite cordial these days.

Someone isn’t in leadership. Lol

[enjchanter]

I think the bigger issue is that vulak robes only drop for guilds I'm not in

[Fammaden]

Just handle raid mobs the same as the Drusella and Lucan camps.

Each raid mob is its own camp and can be held as such between spawns. Your guild has to maintain a presence in the camp and clear the trash whenever it pops. Do this for a week uninterrupted and that raid mob is yours whenever it spawns.

Now any guild can get any mob they want, though they'll need to take care to not wipe to a flurry drake that pops at 2am or whatever.

I mean this is sort of the end result of the OP's train of thought. If Kittens/TSS/DBB/Asgard whoever wants to spend a Saturday sitting in fear clearing trash during golem window to claim a golem spawn as their camp, let them. If they wipe a guild with the "trackers" can come in and mop up their failed mob. Ditto Trak, if that guild first Trak kill means you are willing to pull juggs while camping the window in the lair while other guilds have more pressing matter, when why not let them?

From there its just the (classic!) play nice policy stuff. Run logs and fraps, can show you were first at camp with a reasonable force. If some other guild wants to try training or KS'ing you have recourse. Anyone who does try might find that guild they fucked with to be a thorn in their side for future events.

Couple this with more earthquakes assuming staff isn't babysitting too much (maybe, maybe not) and lots of people can take shots at shit that feels out of reach, but still have to "compete and put in work" to do it.

[Jimjam]

Yes, let's put Jugs and Tovtrash on permafarm, why should dragons follow different rules to the rest of Everquest!?

Equal plights for raid and group targets!

[Kefit]

I mean this is sort of the end result of the OP's train of thought. If Kittens/TSS/DBB/Asgard whoever wants to spend a Saturday sitting in fear clearing trash during golem window to claim a golem spawn as their camp, let them. If they wipe a guild with the "trackers" can come in and mop up their failed mob. Ditto Trak, if that guild first Trak kill means you are willing to pull juggs while camping the window in the lair while other guilds have more pressing matter, when why not let them?

My suggestion of treating raid mobs as Drusella/Lucan style camps was mostly meant as a joke, because the idea of a guild clearing VP or ToV trash for a week straight to get dibs on a raid target amuses me greatly. And they'd do it too.

But when you put it that way, this idea might actually have an ounce merit when applied to some lower end (but still worthwhile and contested) raid content.

[Kefit]

Actually nah it would just result in the top guild having small rotating dedicated teams "camping" all the remotely worthwhile Kunark and old world targets too.

I mean if they can do it for Shiny Brass Idols then they can do it for White Dragon Scales and AoNs too.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Ditto Trak, if that guild first Trak kill means you are willing to pull juggs while camping the window in the lair while other guilds have more pressing matter, when why not let them?

BDA tried "putting in the work" to do this, the neckbeards had a meltdown because someone else was getting pixels (despite "putting in work"), and long story short, this is why you can't XP in Seb if Trak is in window and your guild wants to compete for it.

It has to be "putting in work" as defined by the same neckbeards who decide who deserves pixels on this server.

[JayDee]

Yeah permarooting the bosses causes problems with push to interrupt and such. Making them summon at 100% is still classic and solves the stupid trains to entrance without causing the push problem.

I understand and your solution may be just as good, if not better.

But I would say push can be handled the same as it would not without the mob physically move along the axis. I am not sure how much of a hurdle that is coding wise, but conceptually you just have it interrupt the same amount in relation to how much push it would have caused.

I am against any changes, but if I had to choose between these or camp counselor GM intervention, it's this. At the end of the day, the player should feel like they are in control.

[loramin]

This is getting extremely convoluted and circuitous. I never said any of those things

There's an element of fairness to this: when arguing with people for 25 pages its easy to lose track of exactly what everyone said. On top of that, I purposely reference things person A said when talking to person B, because this isn't 20 tiny individual conversations, it's one big one.

But also, I'm making assumptions based on what you said. For instance, when I wrote:

When you (and not just you, many in this thread) are in "defend P99 competition" mode you're all about how "competition" is what's important, and it doesn't even matter about organizing people to kill dragons.


I was referring to stuff like:

Serious question tho Loramin. What is it about the current situation that makes you feel like you or people you are concerned about have absolutely no chance at contesting ToV or top end content?

Inherent in that is the idea that we should have competition right? That competition is good, and that only the deserving few who "contest" ToV deserve it? You never say any of those things, but I have a hard time seeing that quote without a context that doesn't assume "competition" = good (with an underlying assumption that only those who "compete" in non-classic P99 games deserve to kill dragons in the classic EQ sense).

So maybe you never explicitly said "competition is more important than killing the dragons", but A) you implied it, and B) other people in this thread more or less have said that, and we're having a larger conversation. So while I certainly wouldn't want to put words in your mouth (that would be dishonest arguing), I also don't think it's unfair to (say) pin you as a defender of "competition".

[Baylan295]

I think the bigger issue is that vulak robes only drop for guilds I'm not in

RIP the dream, brother. RIP.

[Champion_Standing]

There's an element of fairness to this: when arguing with people for 25 pages its easy to lose track of exactly what everyone said. On top of that, I purposely reference things person A said when talking to person B, because this isn't 20 tiny individual conversations, it's one big one.

But also, I'm making assumptions based on what you said. For instance, when I wrote:



I was referring to stuff like:



Inherent in that is the idea that we should have competition right? That competition is good, and that only the deserving few who "contest" ToV deserve it? You never say any of those things, but I have a hard time seeing that quote without a context that doesn't assume "competition" = good (with an underlying assumption that only those who "compete" in non-classic P99 games deserve to kill dragons in the classic EQ sense).

So maybe you never explicitly said "competition is more important than killing the dragons", but A) you implied it, and B) other people in this thread more or less have said that, and we're having a larger conversation. So while I certainly wouldn't want to put words in your mouth (that would be dishonest arguing), I also don't think it's unfair to (say) pin you as a defender of "competition".


I favor open content and player made agreements over artificial constraints and GM intervention. I don't support shitty behavior and tactics or the "get mobs at all costs" mentality. I don't like the "competition" line because it holds all the negative connotations from past shitheads that used it as a mask for their behavior. I'd rather say contesting content, we're rebranding here for a new era.

I personally think if you don't like the open world content model that leads to multiple people wanting the same items or mobs or camps at the same time, Classic Everquest is fundamentally not a game you'll enjoy playing. This is just a reality at every level of the game as I said before. It's not surprising that the best and rarest stuff in the game is the most hotly contested.

I really don't have a whole lot of skin in the game, rotations or not I'd probably stand the same chances of actually getting any significant raid loot. But I just think it would be boring. I'd take the 52+ CHANCES of getting Vulak a year over my guaranteed rationed 8.6 Vulaks per year under a rotation system any time. Which brings me back to my original point. A rotated zone is effectively an instance for whoever is up. I'd rather they just go ahead and instance ToV so we can all kill dragons in our instance every weekend, instead of having to wait 4-8 weeks for our instance to refresh.

[aaezil]

EXACTLY like the snapshot of live this server replicates from 2001.

Sounds like you weren't playing a high level toon around the time velious was dropped on live. Raid mobs were up all the time. On most servers all but one guild could even field enough 50-60 lvl players to down dragons, let alone the insane non classic everything dying within 3 minutes of spawning non classic training/pulling mechanics non classic clicky use list goes on and on and on... Basically the raid scene on p99 is lightyears away from what everquest raiding was in real velious.

[Heebs13]

Sounds like you weren't playing a high level toon around the time velious was dropped on live. Raid mobs were up all the time. On most servers all but one guild could even field enough 50-60 lvl players to down dragons, let alone the insane non classic everything dying within 3 minutes of spawning non classic training/pulling mechanics non classic clicky use list goes on and on and on... Basically the raid scene on p99 is lightyears away from what everquest raiding was in real velious.

Everything you said is true, but how would you fix this?

Put a limit on total characters a person can have / play? Something like 2 characters per IP, and if a character is logged onto from more than 2 IPs (let's say 1 for home, 1 for work), it raises a flag that a GM investigates? Basically start cracking down on shared toons and alts?

Do a full server wipe every year or two?

Remove recharges?

Remove certain clicky items (cough cough DA Idol cough cough)?

Gonna piss off a lot of people if they do any of the above really.

[destrozi]

Sounds like you weren't playing a high level toon around the time velious was dropped on live. Raid mobs were up all the time. On most servers all but one guild could even field enough 50-60 lvl players to down dragons, let alone the insane non classic everything dying within 3 minutes of spawning non classic training/pulling mechanics non classic clicky use list goes on and on and on... Basically the raid scene on p99 is lightyears away from what everquest raiding was in real velious.

Did you read what I wrote instead of cherry picking a single sentence from my post?

[radda]

GM Event quake once a year (p99 or classic anniversary) where targets are divided up. Killed in the most classic style as possible instead of the most efficient. Take screenshots/video. Marketing for your guild and p99 server.

Put on your bronze and mithril two hander and fight Nagafen. Fight faydedar in the water. Crawl up to inny’s room and get grav fluxed 100 yards constantly. Bust into the thurgadin royal court and murder everyone red-wedding esque. A dead tormax in front of his throne of whoever’s dragon head that is.

That’s my dream for a rotation/classic nostalgia experiences. The other 51+ cycles be competition or whatever.

pras Detoxx's serverwide tov crawl

[loramin]

Classic Everquest is fundamentally not a game you'll enjoy playing.

It amazes me that you can get through this long conversation and still say this with a "straight face". NOTHING, I repeat:

NOTHING!!!

about the current P99 "competition" system is in any way classic EverQuest. Classic EverQuest is about groups of people organizing to kill dragons; how can you not understand that? P99's competition system is wholly separate from that (to the point where multiple people in this thread have said they literally don't care about the "killing dragons part", and all they care about is beating other people at the P99 competition game).

I really don't have a whole lot of skin in the game, rotations or not I'd probably stand the same chances of actually getting any significant raid loot. But I just think it would be boring.

Wait, so you're putting all this effort into defending a non-Classic EQ system you're barely even involved with, because you think a system which has never even been tried for a single day on P99 (but which was used, very successfully, on live/classic EQ servers) might be "boring" relative to the system we've had for 10 years that you barely participate in?!? A system that has clearly encouraged:

shitty behavior and tactics or the "get mobs at all costs" mentality

for the entire decade that we've had some variation of it place? :eek:

I'm at a loss.

[Champion_Standing]

What Live servers had the GMs set up a rotation for content? I'm sure we can point to plenty of player made agreements, but those are not the same thing. As I said before I favor open content and PLAYER MADE AGREEMENTS over the staff putting restrictions on content. It's funny that you immediately take that to mean I'd never accept any other system than FTE racing.

Shitty behavior continues because the slap on the wrist punishment makes breaking the rules worth it to certain people. Start banning some of the big trouble makers and you'd have a LOT better situation all around.

[Jimjam]

Genuine ignorant question here; Is FTE a classic resolution process for determine who takes the treasure from a mob?

Do we have classic levels of 'KSing' here?

[Legday]

It amazes me that you can get through this long conversation and still say this with a "straight face". NOTHING, I repeat:

NOTHING!!!

about the current P99 "competition" system is in any way classic EverQuest. Classic EverQuest is about groups of people organizing to kill dragons; how can you not understand that? P99's competition system is wholly separate from that (to the point where multiple people in this thread have said they literally don't care about the "killing dragons part", and all they care about is beating other people at the P99 competition game).



Wait, so you're putting all this effort into defending a non-Classic EQ system you're barely even involved with, because you think a system which has never even been tried for a single day on P99 (but which was used, very successfully, on live/classic EQ servers) might be "boring" relative to the system we've had for 10 years that you barely participate in?!? A system that has clearly encouraged:



for the entire decade that we've had some variation of it place? :eek:

I'm at a loss.

I disagree

[Maschenny]

Loramin do you have evidence of rotations being a server rule in Velious? I was on Fennin Ro, one of the largest servers, and there was nothing like a ToV rotation on that server.

[Nexii]

It also presupposes that a GM enforced rotation would somehow be less work for the staff. It'd be way more work to hammer out a rotation week in and week out that'd please all guilds than to enforce the current state of affairs. And that's why it remains so.

[Raev]

Loramin/Yendor, you guys should just go play on TAKP. There are GM enforced rotations and you can do Luclin, which actually has a few more interesting raids than tank & spank Velious. Boxing isn't even mandatory. Having been a champion of rotations in the past, I can vouch that they are Boring.

The truth is you are living in the golden age of Project 1999 raiding! You don't have to track every raid target for 96 hours at a time, but merely wait for bi-monthly repop! Literally all you would have to do is take the Aegis alliance to north during a repop and start crawling in. Raid rules do not allow the zone pull guilds to train you. You would get Vulak easily as long as you had part of your guild on each side of the lava pit.

But you refuse to do this, because you don't want to put even the smallest amount effort in. Instead you are following your r-selected evolutionary strategy of status signaling and manipulation. And you are getting told to fuck off. Newsflash: it's only going to get worse. We normal people have had enough insufferable tools like you destroying the country. And your epigenetics are simply not tuned for the imminent (more) k-selected future. If you toughen up a bit, your life from here will be one failure after another.

[hobart]

Literally all you would have to do is take the Aegis alliance to north during a repop and start crawling in. Raid rules do not allow the zone pull guilds to train you. You would get Vulak easily as long as you had part of your guild on each side of the lava pit.

But you refuse to do this, because you don't want to put even the smallest amount effort in.

You're clueless, Trumptard. Go figure.

There's no bi-monthly repops and you're nuts if you don't think Detoxx and co will pull their raid mobs right the fuck over you. They'll /shout and /ooc once their FTE goes out of course. And you'll either consider yourself warned and get the fuck out of the way or you'll get plowed.

You don't get to stand on the tracks on P99 and then claim outrage for getting trained. I love the concept, but it won't work here. Also, who are you going to complain to when you do get trained?

The lights are on, but no one is home.

[Hotel]

Loramin/Yendor, you guys should just go play on TAKP. There are GM enforced rotations and you can do Luclin, which actually has a few more interesting raids than tank & spank Velious. Boxing isn't even mandatory. Having been a champion of rotations in the past, I can vouch that they are Boring.

The truth is you are living in the golden age of Project 1999 raiding! You don't have to track every raid target for 96 hours at a time, but merely wait for bi-monthly repop! Literally all you would have to do is take the Aegis alliance to north during a repop and start crawling in. Raid rules do not allow the zone pull guilds to train you. You would get Vulak easily as long as you had part of your guild on each side of the lava pit.

But you refuse to do this, because you don't want to put even the smallest amount effort in. Instead you are following your r-selected evolutionary strategy of status signaling and manipulation. And you are getting told to fuck off. Newsflash: it's only going to get worse. We normal people have had enough insufferable tools like you destroying the country. And your epigenetics are simply not tuned for the imminent (more) k-selected future. If you toughen up a bit, your life from here will be one failure after another.

[Baylan295]

Loramin/Yendor, you guys should just go play on TAKP. There are GM enforced rotations and you can do Luclin, which actually has a few more interesting raids than tank & spank Velious. Boxing isn't even mandatory. Having been a champion of rotations in the past, I can vouch that they are Boring.

The truth is you are living in the golden age of Project 1999 raiding! You don't have to track every raid target for 96 hours at a time, but merely wait for bi-monthly repop! Literally all you would have to do is take the Aegis alliance to north during a repop and start crawling in. Raid rules do not allow the zone pull guilds to train you. You would get Vulak easily as long as you had part of your guild on each side of the lava pit.

But you refuse to do this, because you don't want to put even the smallest amount effort in. Instead you are following your r-selected evolutionary strategy of status signaling and manipulation. And you are getting told to fuck off. Newsflash: it's only going to get worse. We normal people have had enough insufferable tools like you destroying the country. And your epigenetics are simply not tuned for the imminent (more) k-selected future. If you toughen up a bit, your life from here will be one failure after another.

One guild was actually told to get out of ToV by Sirken when they were doing just this.

[loramin]

Loramin do you have evidence of rotations being a server rule in Velious? I was on Fennin Ro, one of the largest servers, and there was nothing like a ToV rotation on that server.

Ok, first off "in Velious" is an incredibly loaded term. Velious on live lasted almost exactly a year (it was released in December 2000, and Luclin was released in December 2001). Here, even if you completely ignore the fact that everyone was gearing up in Kunark gear for seven years prior, Velious itself has still lasted more than three times as long as Velious ever did on live (and counting).

But second, even going by the most literal definition of "in Velious", yes. This is far from the first time we've (we as in the forum collectively) had this discussion, and in previous discussions people chimed in with stories of rotations in that era. I'm too lazy to go find said discussions, so I don't know what servers exactly, but the conversation exists and can be found with a bit of Googling. As has already been noted my server, Bristlebane, absolutely had them, but they weren't introduced until later (Luclin/PoP) ... but even so, if you compare P99 to Bristlebane they'd already be rotating by now.

Now, turnabout is fair play: do you have evidence from live for any of the P99 "competition" mechanisms besides FTE itself? Even FTE messages never existed on live, because live (despite all this talk about how stiff competition was on it) never had anywhere close to the number of FTE fights P99 has.

[Mead]

So rotations on your server weren't in the classic era

Got it

[loramin]

It also presupposes that a GM enforced rotation would somehow be less work for the staff. It'd be way more work to hammer out a rotation week in and week out that'd please all guilds than to enforce the current state of affairs. And that's why it remains so.

That's why the staff almost released (well, technically they did, and then rolled back) a rotation?

As I mentioned before, a rotation absolutely could be less work, even if the staff didn't enlist the players ... but IMHO the smart thing to do would be setup systems that force the players to do the enforcement (eg. whoever has HoT this week has to observe new guilds trying to beat the gatekeeper mob so they can join the rotation).

[Maschenny]

Competition just happens when multiple people or groups want the same target. Why would i need to find evidence of it?

Also, i don't consider what you posted to be evidence. Some hearsay from another thread?

[Ripqozko]

Loramin is the AoC of p99

[Hotel]

Loramin is the AoC of p99

He's so deluded that he may actually take that as a compliment

[enesis]

Aegis does do NTOV crawls and folks have floated the idea about crawling in during a repop for some of the "lesser" dragons. Unfortunately, it will probably never happen because of the incredible amount of salt that would instantly flow from the pull-to-entrance guilds if we were in their way. And then we'd get trained. Remember when BG setup at the WToV entrance? Go read those threads if you were being serious in your suggestion. Our officers/members know that drama is the likely result of setting up and crawling during a repop and most do not want to deal with the whining about it. Most of my interactions with the big raiding guilds outside NToV suggest the same. The least appealing thing about NToV to me is the inevitable rule lawyering that it entails; if I had to identify what is keeping Aegis out of NToV, I’d point to the people who frequent it.

In addition to avoiding drama because guilds cannot play nice, the best part about a rotation would be that it allows for actual dungeon crawls. The fact that an NTOV crawl has happened once during the last two years (or maybe the history of the server?) shows that a crawl style of raiding is not a practical option in the coth + pull-to-entrance raid environment. Don’t you guys like a little foreplay?! Or maybe that’s not a concept you are familiar with (ouch).

P.S., rotation or not, the bigger guilds will still go at other targets full bore. See the recent 300+ people fear repops or the past few Sundays where AM has socked sev with us for the entire window. The same guilds are are at pretty much every Sev/CT/Golem/Kozzalym repop as well. AM kills gore within minutes of it spawning in the middle of the night. It's completely disingenuous to suggest that competition for other targets would somehow "get worse" if NToV was rotated. It is a totally empty threat. So in that regard, who cares?

[Hotel]

Aegis does do NTOV crawls and folks have floated the idea about crawling in during a repop for some of the "lesser" dragons. Unfortunately, it will probably never happen because of the incredible amount of salt that would instantly flow from the pull-to-entrance guilds if we were in their way. And then we'd get trained. Remember when BG setup at the WToV entrance? Go read those threads if you were being serious in your suggestion. Our officers/members know that drama is the likely result of setting up and crawling during a repop and most do not want to deal with the whining about it. Most of my interactions with the big raiding guilds outside NToV suggest the same. The least appealing thing about NToV to me is the inevitable rule lawyering that it entails; if I had to identify what is keeping Aegis out of NToV, I’d point to the people who frequent it.

In addition to avoiding drama because guilds cannot play nice, the best part about a rotation would be that it allows for actual dungeon crawls. The fact that an NTOV crawl has happened once during the last two years (or maybe the history of the server?) shows that a crawl style of raiding is not a practical option in the coth + pull-to-entrance raid environment. Don’t you guys like a little foreplay?! Or maybe that’s not a concept you are familiar with (ouch).

P.S., rotation or not, the bigger guilds will still go at other targets full bore. See the recent 300+ people fear repops or the past few Sundays where AM has socked sev with us for the entire window. The same guilds are are at pretty much every Sev/CT/Golem/Kozzalym repop as well. AM kills gore within minutes of it spawning in the middle of the night. It's completely disingenuous to suggest that competition for other targets would somehow "get worse" if NToV was rotated. It is a totally empty threat. So in that regard, who cares?

mad cuz bad

[enesis]

mad cuz bad

You and like six other dudes in particular have been flipping shit in every thread that even tangentially concerns a rotation.

[Hotel]

You and like six other dudes in particular have been flipping shit in every thread that even tangentially concerns a rotation.

I definitely would stop playing in a rotated environment with ~7 guilds and I also know that's music to your ears. But when all the attractive and successful people stop playing, no one will care about this server.

[enesis]

attractive and successful




haahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahh

[Raev]

Unfortunately, it will probably never happen because of the incredible amount of salt that would instantly flow from the pull-to-entrance guilds if we were in their way.

Are you so terrified at the thought of being on the business end of a Detoxx flame that you can do nothing but status signal? How r-selected of you. Rabbits don't fight over territory. Have you considered the following:

The staff are -><- this close to announcing a rotation anyway, and that they would look with more favor on this concept if the non-zone pull guilds made even a token effort?
Sirken is no longer lead GM. If you start crawling TOV on a repop Aftermath has to decide whether to roll the dice with Braknar (who announced the rotation!) with a 20 day raid suspension at stake.
Worst case you spend 1-2 hours corpse summoning and rezzing.


Embrace the conflict! Feel your amygala powering up!

Don’t you guys like a little foreplay?! Or maybe that’s not a concept you are familiar with (ouch).

With r-selected people, it's always about the volume of sex. You win in a resource-rich environment by reproducing the most.

[Hotel]

haahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahh

I bet I'm hotter than you IRL

[enesis]

Are you so terrified at the thought of being on the business end of a Detoxx flame that you can do nothing but status signal? How r-selected of you. Rabbits don't fight over territory. Have you considered the following:

The staff are -><- this close to announcing a rotation anyway, and that they would look with more favor on this concept if the non-zone pull guilds made even a token effort?
Sirken is no longer lead GM. If you start crawling TOV on a repop Aftermath has to decide whether to roll the dice with Braknar (who announced the rotation!) with a 20 day raid suspension at stake.
Worst case you spend 1-2 hours corpse summoning and rezzing.


Embrace the conflict! Feel your amygala powering up!



With r-selected people, it's always about the volume of sex. You win in a resource-rich environment by reproducing the most.

Terrified? No. Do I have better things to do with my time? Undoubtedly. The references to evolutionary theory are ironic in the context of an argument about investing unhealthy amounts of time and energy into Everquest. How do any of you r-selected folks in aftermath actually reproduce when its all a big circlejerk?

[Hotel]

Terrified? No. Do I have better things to do with my time? Undoubtedly. The references to evolutionary theory are ironic in the context of an argument about investing unhealthy amounts of time and energy into Everquest. How do any of you r-selected folks in aftermath actually reproduce when its all a big circlejerk?

Girls are all over my dick 24/7. Guess you wouldn't understand as an unattractive beta male.

[enesis]

Girls are all over my dick 24/7. Guess you wouldn't understand as an unattractive beta male.

This is the third post in the same thread on the p99 RNF board where you have declared yourself attractive

hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah

[Hotel]

This is the third post in the same thread on the p99 RNF board where you have declared yourself attractive

hahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah

Truth hurts. I posted my pic in the thread below this one if you wan't to see what a 6'4 alpha male looks like.

I bet you won't show us yours.

[Champion_Standing]

Terrified? No. Do I have better things to do with my time? Undoubtedly

I seriously doubt that. Nobody who has anything to do plays P99.

[Jimjam]

In bed on his notepad dual screening forumquest and dragonchase sim while two 5/7 broads sate his carnal needs.

Speaking of evolutionary theory, someone has snuck into lulz's niche!

[enesis]

Truth hurts. I posted my pic in the thread below this one if you wan't to see what a 6'4 alpha male looks like.

I bet you won't show us yours.

That's four. But in any event, I am married (to a woman), so you do not have to worry about proving how attractive and successful you are to me. I am taken and otherwise not your type.

[enesis]

I seriously doubt that. Nobody who has anything to do plays P99.

I would rather ride the boat back and forth across ocean of tears than argue about trains with the NToV brain trust. Or sleep.

[Hotel]

That's four. But in any event, I am married (to a woman), so you do not have to worry about proving how attractive and successful you are to me. I am taken and otherwise not your type.

5*

[loramin]

You and like six other dudes in particular have been flipping shit in every thread that even tangentially concerns a rotation.

That's about the level of discourse here: it is Rants and Flames after all (not that it stays in this forum).

The group of "real men who compete through made-up unclassic mechanisms and believe everyone else is a loser/whiner/baby" do their best to drown out any actual meaningful dialog, while making no desire to actually convince anyone of anything except by shouting the loudest. And they are exactly who I've been railing against with all my "let's have an honest debate" stuff.

Thankfully, some people here aren't like that. I'll drag Champion through the mud any day of the weak for trying to claim that P99 "competition" is in any way classic, but I have so much respect for the guy for actually engaging. And he's not the only one: if you filter out the "shouters" there really has been an interesting dialog going on in this thread.

And that is what I hope my real audience sees. Not me "losing" the debate because a bunch of idiots keep trying to shout me down, but me having an interesting, not black and white (though obviously I feel my position is stronger) debate with the few people willing to have it, honestly, with me.

Ultimately, only one person's opinion on all this really matters (though I would think/hope that Rogean would consider the other GMs' opinions also). So I hope that if he/they read this thread, they are able to see past the fact that it's RNF and people yell a lot. I hope they can see some actual points being made on both sides about what's best for the server, and if they do I hope they'll see how much better for the server overall (not for RNF, and not for the top guilds) a rotation system would be,

[Terrel]

That's about the level of discourse here: it is Rants and Flames after all (not that it stays in this forum).

The group of "real men who compete through made-up unclassic mechanisms and believe everyone else is a loser/whiner/baby" do their best to drown out any actual meaningful dialog, while making no desire to actually convince anyone of anything except by shouting the loudest. And they are exactly who I've been railing against with all my "let's have an honest debate" stuff.

Thankfully, some people here aren't like that. I'll drag Champion through the mud any day of the weak for trying to claim that P99 "competition" is in any way classic, but I have so much respect for the guy for actually engaging. And he's not the only one: if you filter out the "shouters" there really has been an interesting dialog going on in this thread.

And that is what I hope my real audience sees. Not me "losing" the debate because a bunch of idiots keep trying to shout me down, but me having an interesting, not black and white (though obviously I feel my position is stronger) debate with the few people willing to have it, honestly, with me.

Ultimately, only one person's opinion on all this really matters (though I would think/hope that Rogean would consider the other GMs' opinions also). So I hope that if he/they read this thread, they are able to see past the fact that it's RNF and people yell a lot. I hope they can see some actual points being made on both sides about what's best for the server, and if they do I hope they'll see how much better for the server overall (not for RNF, and not for the top guilds) a rotation system would be,

I'm not any good at RnF either, Loramin. Not my personality. But you hear lots of loud voices in here, eh?

FWIW, I agree with you, and I'm sure most do. Here are my thoughts on this matter:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2861024#post2861024

[YendorLootmonkey]

But you refuse to do this, because you don't want to put even the smallest amount effort in. Instead you are following your r-selected evolutionary strategy of status signaling and manipulation. And you are getting told to fuck off. Newsflash: it's only going to get worse. We normal people have had enough insufferable tools like you destroying the country. And your epigenetics are simply not tuned for the imminent (more) k-selected future. If you toughen up a bit, your life from here will be one failure after another.

Except you forget I DID put the time and effort in. Years ago. I did some "poopmittening" (camping out for and tracking mobs nearing the end of window, not poopsocking the entire window.) I did the FTE races pulling Talendor, Gorenaire, and Sev.

It was all stupid and required me to be chained to a computer pressing track for hours at a time, understand all sorts of raid rules, sign up for a batphone, jump on at 4am on a weekend (wasn't going to answer batphones on a work night... that's where I drew the line) to help Vesica Dei or, later BDA, kill a raid mob.

Then some asshole troll who had access to our forums posted a RL pic of my guildleader for the RNF sociopaths to make fun of here, chasing her and the core of my guild off to another server to get away from the toxicity.

Those who were left mostly merged with BDA. So I did the raid shit with them for a while, but wasn't about to poopsock all of Velious so I quit. Came back, retired from raiding altogther, and just spending my time helping new players level and gear up.

I haven't the heart to tell them that certain groups of these people who have made this game an unhealthy obsession will never let them see certain content unless they join an uber guild and "put in the correct level of time/effort" mandated by server bullies who are dead set against them seeing any raid loot, who will go through legendary efforts to make sure they don't get any raid loot, and will actively rub it in their faces on the forums like a bunch of entitled asshole elitists.

So no, I have no need to join TAKP. My home, or whatever is left of it after toxic sociopaths chased the majority of my friends in two guilds away, is right here. I am done raiding, I am no threat to anyone's precious loot. Like I said, I know my place on the totem pole around here.

What pisses me off is that my place was decided for me by other players who somehow deemed themselves the arbiters of who deserves what, not by game mechanics or developers.

But hey, if it makes everyone feel better to call this competition "classic" every time there's an assault on the status quo, despite this level of competition was artificially created by having no progression beyond Velious and allowing players to gear their characters for 6+ years of Kunark, then so be it.

[America]

Except you forget I DID put the time and effort in. Years ago. I did some "poopmittening" (camping out for and tracking mobs nearing the end of window, not poopsocking the entire window.) I did the FTE races pulling Talendor, Gorenaire, and Sev.

It was all stupid and required me to be chained to a computer pressing track for hours at a time, understand all sorts of raid rules, sign up for a batphone, jump on at 4am on a weekend (wasn't going to answer batphones on a work night... that's where I drew the line) to help Vesica Dei or, later BDA, kill a raid mob.

Then some asshole troll who had access to our forums posted a RL pic of my guildleader for the RNF sociopaths to make fun of here, chasing her and the core of my guild off to another server to get away from the toxicity.

Those who were left mostly merged with BDA. So I did the raid shit with them for a while, but wasn't about to poopsock all of Velious so I quit. Came back, retired from raiding altogther, and just spending my time helping new players level and gear up.

I haven't the heart to tell them that certain groups of these people who have made this game an unhealthy obsession will never let them see certain content unless they join an uber guild and "put in the correct level of time/effort" mandated by server bullies who are dead set against them seeing any raid loot, who will go through legendary efforts to make sure they don't get any raid loot, and will actively rub it in their faces on the forums like a bunch of entitled asshole elitists.

So no, I have no need to join TAKP. My home, or whatever is left of it after toxic sociopaths chased the majority of my friends in two guilds away, is right here. I am done raiding, I am no threat to anyone's precious loot. Like I said, I know my place on the totem pole around here.

What pisses me off is that my place was decided for me by other players who somehow deemed themselves the arbiters of who deserves what, not by game mechanics or developers.

But hey, if it makes everyone feel better to call this competition "classic" every time there's an assault on the status quo, despite this level of competition was artificially created by having no progression beyond Velious and allowing players to gear their characters for 6+ years of Kunark, then so be it.

let the thread know if ur gullet's been stretched enough yet to fit this post down it

[ReadOnly]

There's a reason no one is even attempting to seriously discuss the issue in the 5+ day old thread https://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=320575

No one wants to seriously debate or even discuss this. The fact that this conversation is even occurring in RnF is a travesty. Nothing good can come from posting in here, ever.

[Ravager]

Good things happen in RnF. It's where Swish gets banned.

[YendorLootmonkey]

let the thread know if ur gullet's been stretched enough yet to fit this post down it

As long as you let us know when your sphincter is loosened enough to take that impending NTOV rotation of which you got a short preview.

[America]

As long as you let us know when your sphincter is loosened enough to take that impending NTOV rotation of which you got a short preview.

what in God's name are you talking about my main is lvl 56

get this man some help the trees are talking to him about EverQuest raids

[YendorLootmonkey]

what in God's name are you talking about my main is lvl 56

get this man some help the trees are talking to him about EverQuest raids

I apologize, I thought you were a neckbeard. :)

[Ravager]

You weren't wrong. Anyone who post RnF is a neckbeard.

[Bardp1999]

heheheE

[America]

You weren't wrong. Anyone who post RnF is a neckbeard.

My pronouns are she/her

[Elerial]

Your pronouns are what we assign to you.

[Jimjam]

Your pronouns are what we assign to you.

Warmbody, neck beard, wall starer. Competative, casual. Filthy.

[Ravager]

My pronouns are she/her

Don't be sexist. It's 2019. Women can grow neckbeards too.

[Elerial]

Probably identifies with shortcake too.

[Phenyo]

It amazes me that you can get through this long conversation and still say this with a "straight face". NOTHING, I repeat:

NOTHING!!!

about the current P99 "competition" system is in any way classic EverQuest. Classic EverQuest is about groups of people organizing to kill dragons; how can you not understand that? P99's competition system is wholly separate from that (to the point where multiple people in this thread have said they literally don't care about the "killing dragons part", and all they care about is beating other people at the P99 competition game).



Wait, so you're putting all this effort into defending a non-Classic EQ system you're barely even involved with, because you think a system which has never even been tried for a single day on P99 (but which was used, very successfully, on live/classic EQ servers) might be "boring" relative to the system we've had for 10 years that you barely participate in?!? A system that has clearly encouraged:



for the entire decade that we've had some variation of it place? :eek:

I'm at a loss.

You are bad for this server.