"Fair and legitimate chance at a target" (cont)

[arsenalpow]

I wasn't gonna post in this thread, but then 293 posts later, my opinion changed and there's a couple things I'd like to say.

Firstly, we as a staff and as a community, are juggling many different play-styles here on P99. That includes everything from players that will only ever reach mid levels and those level appropriate dungeons, it includes super casual guilds that may only get together once a week or every other week to farm planes, guilds that are capable of downing content but do not want to do anything besides show up to partake in that content, as well as guilds that are willing to track, race, be in voice chat & on batphones, mobilize & react to things extremely fast at any time, and a bunch of play-styles that fall between the aforementioned descriptions.

When you are dealing with that many different people, with that many different play-styles, it is literally impossible for one single course of action to make everyone happy. Surely it's possible to make one group happy, but i'm a firm believer in the school of a good negotiation means no one walks away from the table completely satisfied.

It really bothers me when I see some (not all) of the casual guilds acting like the staff doesn't care about them, and never does anything to help them. We dramatically shorted the variance window from what it was as a direct response to casual guilds complaining that it was too big (and lets be honest, hardcore guilds hated it and complained about it too), so we agreed to shorten the windows on the condition that players would stop poopsocking; we held up our end of the bargain, players did not. At this point, we will not entertain offers from players that involve the promise to stop the sock (because they already spent that card, and the staff is still awaiting it to be delivered), and we will not offer to shorten the variance any more (for the same reason).

Now, as for racing; my personal opinion aside, there is literally no universe in which an argument can be made that having an hour to kill a target that you FTE does anything besides help casual guilds get to experience more content. This change was added solely for the purpose of helping casual guilds, without destroying or removing play-styles that are enjoyed by the more hardcore guilds.

That said, Project 1999 is literally the only place where you can play Classic EQ with any kind of population and also still enjoy a competitive raid scene. It is not a server that allows you to just show up and press the "free loot" button, and it's not a server that rewards you for simply existing. And as much as I hate saying it, I have had to tell guild leaders that if all they really want is instanced raid zones, or a forced rotation, that maybe P99 just isn't the right server for them or their guild. Literally every other server has instances and/or rotations, and some guilds might just be happier there.

Before anyone tries to jump in and play the "we don't care about pixels, we just care about experiencing content" card, let me just stop you because if it was just about content and not about loot people would have been more than ok with rotating all but two VP dragons (PD & Hosh), and people would have been ok with literally any mob split or agreement, as it would still result in casual guilds getting more content than they would be getting if there was absolutely nothing in put in place (be it by staff or a player agreement).

People can complain all they want, but at the end of the day if you guild isn't forcing its members to be in voice chat, isn't utilizing some form of batphone, or is somehow still under the belief that you have to stare at a screen for 16 hours to get a mob, then you guys need to look inwards and fix those problems (and yes, those are absolutely problems if you want to be a raiding guild) because there's literally nothing that the staff or player-base can do to help you if you aren't willing to help yourselves first.

In closing, I'm sick of hearing things aren't "fair". Things are more fair now than they have been in 5+ years. Fair doesn't mean everyone gets the same amount of mobs or loot. Fair means everyone gets the same opportunity to kill those mobs or get that loot, and right now, while it might not be the perfect system for your desired play-style, it is a 100% fair system as it gives everyone a fair and equal opportunity to engage any content, and doesn't even require your raid force to be parked or even in game anymore as you now have the hour to kill.

This message has been brought to you by the letter P and the number 99.

Translation: shit ain't changing, gtfo casuals.

[Pokesan]

i like the part where he specifically claims to not be picking a side

and then the rest of the post is just telling casuals to git gud

[arsenalpow]

i like the part where he specifically claims to not be picking a side

and then the rest of the post is just telling casuals to git gud

I also enjoyed that.

[bigjerry]

i like the part where he specifically claims to not be picking a side

and then the rest of the post is just telling casuals to git gud

i like the part where u reddit

[booter]

Thanks for the gold, kind stranger!

[khanable]

Translation: shit ain't changing, gtfo casuals that want to raid.

the non-raid scene is pretty nice!

[Nexii]

Can someone expand on what Sirken meant by players promising to stop the sock? As far as I understand your only options to get a raid kill are to sock or by player agreement. It seems a little idealistic to think that 100% of guilds will reach agreement for 100% of raid targets.

[maskedmelonpai]

It looks to me as more of an indictment on self-defeat, not casuals ^^ I am super casual and participate in all aspects of the game from leveling to questing to farming and even slaying ntov Dragons. And I have doing it all. I understand that I am disadvantaged in certain areas because of my casual approach (for example I have no tov loot despite killing dozens of dragons), but that's my choice ^^ if I want to play more, I can, that price is too high for me though. I'm not willing to pay it. Every other casual has the same options.

The beautiful thing about the current arrangement is actually diversity ^^ Casuals must rely on hardcores to see everything just as hardcores must rely on casuals to feed the machine. There aren't enough hardcores to form a single entity and lock everything down. Conversely casuals just don't have the time investment required to progress. Casuals cannot exclude hardcores and hardcores cannot exclude casuals whom they rely heavily on to respond to batphones ^^

[RedXIII]

Call me crazy but i really enjoy reading what he thinks. A+

#GitGud!

[maskedmelonpai]

the non-raid scene is pretty nice!

A/A both have LOTS of casuals along with Rustle and of course CSG. In fact most are casual, so there plenty of room for casuals to raid. They just can't exclude hardcores/neckbeards.

[Daldaen]

Can someone expand on what Sirken meant by players promising to stop the sock? As far as I understand your only options to get a raid kill are to sock or by player agreement. It seems a little idealistic to think that 100% of guilds will reach agreement for 100% of raid targets.

This is what confused me...

Players agreed to stop socking. That was back in 96-hour Variance era with just Velious targets, no rules even about FTEing a mob with a tracker on the spawn.

A lot has evolved since then. Specifically the racing rules in ToV and Kael now allow for a full hour to kill your mob. Which in turn reduces socking. If you want there to be less people sitting around waiting to race, I guarantee you every guild would sign up to a 2 Racer limit if the Variance gets dropped to 2 hours. Then the socking that would occur would be 2 racers per guilds and a ranger. Hell im sure guilds would agree to give up bind sight tracking if the variance reduction was on the table.

Suggesting it is off the table because socking didn't stop... when you're referring to a period of 3 years with multiple rule changes over that time? I just don't follow.

[Daldaen]

Just Kunark targets** stupid no edit.

[Whirled]

concede

[Nexii]

This is what confused me...

Players agreed to stop socking. That was back in 96-hour Variance era with just Velious targets, no rules even about FTEing a mob with a tracker on the spawn.

A lot has evolved since then. Specifically the racing rules in ToV and Kael now allow for a full hour to kill your mob. Which in turn reduces socking. If you want there to be less people sitting around waiting to race, I guarantee you every guild would sign up to a 2 Racer limit if the Variance gets dropped to 2 hours. Then the socking that would occur would be 2 racers per guilds and a ranger. Hell im sure guilds would agree to give up bind sight tracking if the variance reduction was on the table.

Suggesting it is off the table because socking didn't stop... when you're referring to a period of 3 years with multiple rule changes over that time? I just don't follow.

I've only raided under post Velious rules. Yes, they do seem strange to me. So too many players were socking under raid bosses, so instead guilds had to start at the zoneline. Yet there's no limit to the number of runners.

[Vallanor]

I'm not sure I really understand what exactly is being poopsocked these days? In ToV, the only people in zone during repop days are racers and a handful of AFK people. Is he talking about people standing at the race line waiting on a spawn? That doesn't seem like a poopsock to me. I think of a poopsock as an entire kill force logged in ready to go. With racing, there is really not benefit to doing that.

The only mobs I know that are poopsocked by that definition are fear golems and Severilous, and only a couple guilds are putting themselves through that ordeal (why, I don't know).

Maybe I'm missing something?

[nyclin]

my real question is why the staff would even care about socking in the first place.. it doesn't affect them in the slightest

now, unclear rules & what seems like an obsession with being Arbiter of Fun.. that creates work for the staff

[FatMice]

My respect for Sirken has been elevated to new levels.

[kotton05]

Pretty much these newbies don't know how shit it was before most these rules

[bigjerry]

now imagine if everything was in the open how much more fun this could be

i blame copyright law

[Gimp]

Repops are never addressed in those posts.

Kinda annoying.

[Danth]

The folks who make the rules here rather favor the hardcore, competitive mindset. That might've been news....in 2009. In 2017 just accept P1999 for what it is and take it or leave it. The post quoted at the start of this thread says much the same ("not for everyone").

Danth

[kotton05]

maybe someone else does repops

[Danth]

Cant edit so here's more random thought: Heck, Sirken even explains why they favor the mode of gameplay that they do: They feel it isn't available elsewhere. That's even a decent point; the counter-point is that a more-or-less classic EQ isn't really available elsewhere either so that's why you have that horde of filthy casuals here at all. If there was another near-classic server which used a ruleset catering to a more casual mindset I suspect P1999's population wouldn't be where it is now.

Danth

[Leiker]

Its better now than it used to be, something many new players don't really understand.
Atleast we actually have(had?) working agreements. Something we didnt have for 48935 years of Kunark.

tl;dr nothing to see buisness as usual.

[Barcelona]

Cant edit so here's more random thought: Heck, Sirken even explains why they favor the mode of gameplay that they do: They feel it isn't available elsewhere. That's even a decent point; the counter-point is that a more-or-less classic EQ isn't really available elsewhere either so that's why you have that horde of filthy casuals here at all. If there was another near-classic server which used a ruleset catering to a more casual mindset I suspect P1999's population wouldn't be where it is now.

Danth

You are just asking for the phinny/takp/p2002 fanboys to chime in...

[Raev]

I don't understand how the P99 staff can seriously believe they are catering to casual players at all when everything that matters requires FTE racing. 99% of the server does not want to sit there for 0-16 hours and then lose to someone alt-tab cheating.

[Ravager]

Basically Sirken's response was to tell 80% of the server to go play someplace else if they don't like it, then lock the thread. Diplomacy at its finest.

[bigjerry]

there are ppl in this thread, perhaps a majority, who read sirken's post

sit back and process that for a few mins

[Sirken]

Translation: shit ain't changing, gtfo casuals.

Honestly, if that's what you got from my post, then either I utterly failed in delivering my message or you have consumed entirely too much of your own koolaid and are only seeing what you want to see.

<3

[Freakish]

I'm not sure I really understand what exactly is being poopsocked these days? In ToV, the only people in zone during repop days are racers and a handful of AFK people. Is he talking about people standing at the race line waiting on a spawn? That doesn't seem like a poopsock to me. I think of a poopsock as an entire kill force logged in ready to go. With racing, there is really not benefit to doing that.

The only mobs I know that are poopsocked by that definition are fear golems and Severilous, and only a couple guilds are putting themselves through that ordeal (why, I don't know).

Maybe I'm missing something?

Kunark era had entire raid forces logged out at raid targets or when the windows were low enough, logged in and all trying to get that kill. It evolved from gms having to check logs of each kill to see who had fte to yellow text to go poopsock the zones. For a lot of targets there were still raid forces logged in at landline ready for that coth, specifically vs and trak were highly contested each spawn.

Today's raids share a similarity in that there's a plethora of racers from any guild at one time but I don't consider that anything like what it was. I don't know what targets are even poopsocked these days. Maybe a yelinak for coth races? Unless GMs consider raiders racing a poopsock in which case its never going to change.

[RedXIII]

I think a lot of us here grew much more respect for you than we initially may have had, Sirken. Good post

-Hjial

+1

A+ SirKen.

[arsenalpow]

Honestly, if that's what you got from my post, then either I utterly failed in delivering my message or you have consumed entirely too much of your own koolaid and are only seeing what you want to see.

<3

2 guilds / 10% of the server will continue to see 90% of the raid content, status quo remains intact as usual

[Kaight]

literally

literally

literally

Literally

literally

literally

[Kodim]

It's always a good thing to know where the server stands/it's direction.

Stop complaining and deal with it, or go play on Phinny where you'll be much happier.

[Sirken]

2 guilds / 10% of the server will continue to see 90% of the raid content, status quo remains intact as usual

ok, so the latter. got it, thanks!

[kotton05]

✌️��

Listening to Dave Chapellll killin em softly

[Vianna]

This is what confused me...

Players agreed to stop socking. That was back in 96-hour Variance era with just Velious targets, no rules even about FTEing a mob with a tracker on the spawn.

A lot has evolved since then. Specifically the racing rules in ToV and Kael now allow for a full hour to kill your mob. Which in turn reduces socking. If you want there to be less people sitting around waiting to race, I guarantee you every guild would sign up to a 2 Racer limit if the Variance gets dropped to 2 hours. Then the socking that would occur would be 2 racers per guilds and a ranger. Hell im sure guilds would agree to give up bind sight tracking if the variance reduction was on the table.

Suggesting it is off the table because socking didn't stop... when you're referring to a period of 3 years with multiple rule changes over that time? I just don't follow.

The variance is pretty classic and less on some mobs right now. More on others.

[arsenalpow]

ok, so the latter. got it, thanks!

If you say so. I had to take an entire guild to a different server to see content. So did Haggard Krew and numerous other guilds, not to mention the countless other guilds that crashed against the top 10% and straight quit. Raid scene sounds super healthy.

[RedXIII]

If you say so. I had to take an entire guild to a different server to see content. So did Haggard Krew and numerous other guilds, not to mention the countless other guilds that crashed against the top 10% and straight quit. Raid scene sounds super healthy.

#GitGud.

Or join a guild who has Usain Bolts (rofl, loved the reference).

[RedXIII]

just kidding Chest, i am happy that you and other found a server and raid scene that can accomodate your needs. Have fun ;)

[Skew]

Females take note. Chest is the sort of dude who will stalk your Facebook and Instagram for years after you broke up (although word is he does like to cuck)

[Ravager]

It's always a good thing to know where the server stands/it's direction.

Stop complaining and deal with it, or go play on Phinny where you'll be much happier.
Or, for your nostalgia fix, you can play other games from 1999 that are arguably better: Crazi Taxi, Medal of Honor, FFVIII, GTA II, Planescape: Torment (this one defintitely), Super Smash Bros., Chrono Cross, Unreal Tournament, Ocarina of Time (Nov. 1998, but Majora's Mask was 2000, so I am okay splitting the difference for both) etc., etc., etc.

[Swish]

Or, for your nostalgia fix, you can play other games from 1999 that are arguably better: Crazi Taxi, Medal of Honor, FFVIII, GTA II, Planescape: Torment (this one defintitely), Super Smash Bros., Chrono Cross, Unreal Tournament, Ocarina of Time (Nov. 1998, but Majora's Mask was 2000, so I am okay splitting the difference for both) etc., etc., etc.

Nah, half the charm in 1999 was meeting people from across the world and joining them in grouping to slay orcs, goblins and dragons.

I know BDA likes its own instances but don't forget to mingle with others <3

[Speedi]

I have noticed Chest has been more active speaking out about the p99 raid scene lately. Could it be he knows Phinny's shelf life is coming to an end for the majority of his guild members? So while not playing on p99, he is still actively trying to change the p99 raid scene to fit his needs. So his members will have a home when Phinny dies out.

My prediction:

Even though Chest has openly talked bad about p99 while he has been on Phinny, Chest and BDA will return once PoP has lost its allure

How bout it Chest, am I close?

See you soon!

Love,

Speedi

[Phantasm]

Repops are never addressed in those posts.

Kinda annoying.

Never have I heard anyone complain about repops. Very few people have cited reasons against reduced variance.

Why does the notion of increased earthquakes go ignored if it is universally appreciated as a good idea? I no understand??

[wrighter00]

Its better now than it used to be, something many new players don't really understand.
Atleast we actually have(had?) working agreements. Something we didnt have for 48935 years of Kunark.

tl;dr nothing to see buisness as usual.

Some new players genuinely want to know how it's come to this point, and no one seems to want to have an honest discussion about it. It's seemingly popular to just tell new players off or assume their whining. At this point it should be easy to see that coming onto the raid scene now would be confusing AF. People say one thing and do another.

[Pheer]

guys wait just a second........




.











.







.





.













what the fuck is a raid mob?

[Mistle]

Never have I heard anyone complain about repops. Very few people have cited reasons against reduced variance.

Why does the notion of increased earthquakes go ignored if it is universally appreciated as a good idea? I no understand??

Because apparently Sirken can't do them and Rogean isn't around enough to stay on top of it.

[Mistle]

I have noticed Chest has been more active speaking out about the p99 raid scene lately. Could it be he knows Phinny's shelf life is coming to an end for the majority of his guild members? So while not playing on p99, he is still actively trying to change the p99 raid scene to fit his needs. So his members will have a home when Phinny dies out.

My prediction:

Even though Chest has openly talked bad about p99 while he has been on Phinny, Chest and BDA will return once PoP has lost its allure

How bout it Chest, am I close?

This isn't close. There is at least a year of worthwhile raids coming on Phinny, content that at least raiders care about even if no one else does from GoD on.

This time next year? We can have this conversation again, but if BDA goes anywhere it won't be back to p99, this server is creatively dead and Velious found seriously wanting. If it moves again, figure Takp or p2002. P2002 has the better client, Takp has the better staff, both servers intend to stop at PoP, and one or two guilds aren't permitted to run wild over everyone else like they habitually are here. BDA also doesn't need to bring the entire crew since both servers allow up to threeboxing; if some people don't make the move it's not the end of the world.

Some people simply aren't interested in Sirken's concept of "enjoyable competitive raiding". We call them "normal people" outside of this hellhole. Might surprise some of the fruitcakes here but nowhere else is sitting in front of a door waiting for an audio trigger on a shared stream so you can alt-tab your window to fuck up your own framerate on a race to a mob in which you cannot let your attention slip for a second or you automatically lose for up to sixteen hours at a time for a single mob is considered normal. Step back and get a look at the forest some time. Sirken's rules are batshit insane. Yes, even if they were even worse in the past. He laughs at you for even following them. He certainly would never do them himself.

[Nexii]

Never have I heard anyone complain about repops. Very few people have cited reasons against reduced variance.

Why does the notion of increased earthquakes go ignored if it is universally appreciated as a good idea? I no understand??

I think because the devs consider quakes 'not classic'. I'd say that FTE racing from a zoneline with myriad ambiguous rules is much further from classic than a quake based solution would be. From what I understand, Sony/Verant didn't base disputes on FTE or DPS racing back in classic. It was more a first in force rule, which admittedly was subjective. I think with quakes you'd see less competing anyways. Players will take the easy/uncontested target over trying to go for something that is contested.

[Swish]

Translation: shit ain't changing, gtfo casuals.

BDA werent casual when you were here, just bad. For someone who doesnt play here you're still very vocal about P99 raiding - is there a Phinny exit strategy when the server dies after PoP

Seems like you're trying to lay groundwork for a more BDA friendly (as in bad zerg guild) raid environment and these are the first steps :o

[Mistle]

BDA werent casual when you were here, just bad.

BDA Vulak kills - at least a dozen

Swish Vulak kills - has Swish ever been in ToV?

[Swish]

@Chest

you have consumed entirely too much of your own koolaid and are only seeing what you want to see.

[Swish]

BDA Vulak kills - at least a dozen

Swish Vulak kills - has Swish ever been in ToV?

So you agree BDA werent casuals? Seems like its whichever shoe fits the BDA argument as usual.

"we're the bad guys, nwo brother"

"everyone hates us"

"the raid environment is wrong, not us"

"we're not respecting the rotation anymore"

"staff is oppressing us casual guilds - we're as casual as Veloci Shift you guys"


Slippery as fuck, get a single identity like everyone else and stick to that side of the fence. This is advice for when you come back, you're welcome.

Yes I've been in ToV.

[Tasslehofp99]

I have a blast raiding casually with Aftermath. Since I dont have the same amount of time these days as I used to I can't really keep my raid attendance up as much. However, I still get to partake in raids, get items I want, and have fun doing so.


Sirken's post is spot on, really. If you want loot and you want to raid its possible if you put the effort in. Problem really is that there are too many guilds that want to form alliances which never really work instead of merging. There are currently 2 alliances that could (and should, imho) merge and capably compete every single week against A/A.

[Mistle]

So you agree BDA werent casuals? Seems like its whichever shoe fits the BDA argument as usual.

They take whatever identity this board gives them and laughs about it. Nobody cares.


Yes I've been in ToV.

On red, the epitome of competitive raiding, I am sure.

:D

[Tankdan]

For almost all of my P99 life I have been in the guild that was #1. Now that I'm not playing P99, It seems silly how the end-game raid rules are structured currently. If I was in A/A currently, id be happy with the current rules, because no casual fucks are going to throw away their real lives like A/A do and therefore they won't secure any pixels.

Right now the raid rules benefit the 2 top guilds, that aint even debatable. The 1 Hour to FTE made raiding a lot more boring. You literally log in now just to collect free pixels. Beforehand, logging in, grouping up, setting up rotations, all while the dragon was INCOMING was what made raiding so thrilling. Now you're hard pressed to wipe on 96% of the mobs.

So the current raid rules made A/A raiding boring to the extend that a ton of veterans just don't even play this game now, and smaller guilds are still getting next to nothing. But it's a damn good server to level some alts on.

The person that dedicates more time should get to see more pixels, thats the point of video games. But we are here to experience Classic Everquest, so a line should be drawn.

There are a lot of better ways to go about this than the current rules. Bag limits, C/R/FFA rotations, whatever, something has to be better than this.

[Culkasi]

Honestly, if that's what you got from my post, then either I utterly failed in delivering my message or you have consumed entirely too much of your own koolaid and are only seeing what you want to see.

<3

Honestly Sirken, thats what we all got from it. It might not be the message you tried to deliver, but it was the one you delivered

[polishanarchy]

Kinda weird that this discussion has to be continued in RNF

Some people like how raiding works now, that's cool for them. I don't really get it personally.

[Sadiki]

Somehow, this server has escalated to the point where no one remembers what EverQuest was really about and why so many people return to a 17 year old game. Giving in and pleasing the top few guilds has resulted in a jumbled mess of lawyerquesting, cheating, and stepping on everyone else no matter what the cost.

Saying that the raiding scene is fair because anyone has a shot at FTE on a mob and therefore has a chance isn't quite right. The people who benefit from these rules all gather in one spot so there's almost no competition. It's different than if every raiding guild was constantly getting FTEs, but there's no reason to not join the team that gets 99% of the spawns. These rules are only fair in theory.

I don't really understand why a place has to be made for people who obviously don't want what EverQuest offered back in the day. Classic wasn't about logging on to drag a mob to a zoneline in 5 minutes, or sitting on scout with 30 other people clicking furiously, or any other bs we currently do. Taking a step back from this shitshow makes it all look so silly.

Just rotate mobs. Make raiding more casual. Kick people out who make it a horrible place to be. This isn't a business. People still get pixels while sharing.

[khanable]

^ consider takp

For reals

[necro316]

Somehow, this server has escalated to the point where no one remembers what EverQuest was really about and why so many people return to a 17 year old game. Giving in and pleasing the top few guilds has resulted in a jumbled mess of lawyerquesting, cheating, and stepping on everyone else no matter what the cost.

Saying that the raiding scene is fair because anyone has a shot at FTE on a mob and therefore has a chance isn't quite right. The people who benefit from these rules all gather in one spot so there's almost no competition. It's different than if every raiding guild was constantly getting FTEs, but there's no reason to not join the team that gets 99% of the spawns. These rules are only fair in theory.

I don't really understand why a place has to be made for people who obviously don't want what EverQuest offered back in the day. Classic wasn't about logging on to drag a mob to a zoneline in 5 minutes, or sitting on scout with 30 other people clicking furiously, or any other bs we currently do. Taking a step back from this shitshow makes it all look so silly.

Just rotate mobs. Make raiding more casual. Kick people out who make it a horrible place to be. This isn't a business. People still get pixels while sharing.

you're a hypocrit

there is no right way to play Everquest, just because you like to do some things doesn't make it "classic" or " the way it should be played" or "what it was about on live". It's Everquest, you make your own fun. People like to spend their days in EC tunnel making plat, others twinking alts, others raiding hardcore, others helping others etc etc...

your view of the game isn't the only one, you don't have the BEST way to play Everquest

grow up, people who spend more effort will get more loot. that's how Everquest has always worked

no offense pal but your parents should have smacked you a bit more growing up, you're embarrassing yourself

[Halfelfbard]

Crying scum.

[kotton05]

Crying scum.

Gettem

[paulgiamatti]

I had to take an entire guild to a different server to see content. So did Haggard Krew and numerous other guilds, not to mention the countless other guilds that crashed against the top 10% and straight quit. Raid scene sounds super healthy.

You won't find a fan of the raid scene in me, but these are basically the best possible arguments one could put forth in its favor. Your guild played a pivotal role in trashing the R/C system, and HK was nearly as toxic and corrosive as Lorb Bob. I can't really think of any other notables - Indignation was a slightly less shitty version of HK. We all know what happened to IB, TMO, Taken, Asgard, and The A-Team, but I guess you could say the homogenization those guilds into larger, more poop-socky entities is the essence of the problem.

[kotton05]

You forgot FE and full circle, both of which basically merged with tmo (not BDA for some reason)

[Ravager]

Nah, half the charm in 1999 was meeting people from across the world and joining them in grouping to slay orcs, goblins and dragons.

I know BDA likes its own instances but don't forget to mingle with others <3
There are better games for that too.

Do you think BDA is only Chest? BDA is more than one person and they do take apps, so yeah, they meet people from all over and slay orcs together too.

Why are you so mad that people can be dissatisfied with a hobby project that caters to a fraction of the people interested in it?

[Ravager]

You won't find a fan of the raid scene in me, but these are basically the best possible arguments one could put forth in its favor. Your guild played a pivotal role in trashing the R/C system, and HK was nearly as toxic and corrosive as Lorb Bob. I can't really think of any other notables - Indignation was a slightly less shitty version of HK. We all know what happened to IB, TMO, Taken, Asgard, and The A-Team, but I guess you could say the homogenization those guilds into larger, more poop-socky entities is the essence of the problem.
Velious trashed the R/C system. Hate BDA all you want, but there was never going to be R/C at Velious launch, so hate them for real reasons instead of made up ones.

[arsenalpow]

Well the rotation at least lasted for a year. That's some sort of progress, yet it was mocked and shamed by the class C guilds and largely ignored by the staff. The raid scene is a disaster because of two inflexible raiding entities and the staff that allow them to be man children.

I can't say this enough; p99 is not the place for you if you want to raid in Everquest, period. Phinny has instancing, TAKP has an actual rotation, or play a different game.

I was not happy leaving p99, my monk had everything I wanted based on the targets we could reasonably attain, a guise, all 5 PoM flowers, etc. The vast majority of BDA was also sad to leave because 5+ years is a lot to invest into a server/game. However, moving on to Phinny was so much healthier for the guild overall and everyone is exponentially happier. The officer core is only 5-6 people and their roles are well defined, no one is getting burnt out. As a guild you actually get to progress and your fun isn't dictated by a tiny sect of degenerates.

If CSG or Fires or Venerate or Anon want to continue scrapping for targets and socking for 16 hours at a time and being relegated to HoT or sky raids then I wish you all the best, but the second you make the switch to something new you'll realize how asinine the p99 raiding construct actually was and you'll get whiplash from the hindsight.

[Leiker]

Fact of the matter is that the server has vastly improved since BDA decided to go somewhere else.

[arsenalpow]

Fact of the matter is that the server has vastly improved since BDA decided to go somewhere else.

You're absolutely correct, and that's likely why CSG holds out. They think eventually they'll get to clear ToV because someday there won't be Awakened or Aftermath or another entity standing in their way.

[Leiker]

You're absolutely correct, and that's likely why CSG holds out. They think eventually they'll get to clear ToV because someday there won't be Awakened or Aftermath or another entity standing in their way.

Nah nobody has such delusions. I dont think anyone in CSG even wants to be toptier raiders, those who do just join A/A. A lot of us regular members were actually quite burned out with the recent pixelfest. I cant imagine going through that week after week. We just want to kill some stuff here and there.

When you suffered through this server during Kunark, Velious seems easymode. We're actually killing mobs now. Though its very discouraging (but not suprising) to find out that some guilds are actually cheating to get ahead in footraces.

Personally, if I wanted to leave the server I would have done it back in Kunark when you couldnt even get an epic without being TMO. Though some of the newer players who have put less time into P99 might be tempted to make the switch.

[Swish]

I think that is the key to enjoying P99. Having encounters that dont feel so textbook and trivial, and enjoying them at your own pace - and trying not to get involved in the politics of the raid discussion forum particularly.

[Gimp]

Because apparently Sirken can't do them and Rogean isn't around enough to stay on top of it.

The solution to this issue seems rather obvious. Why is there still only one person capable of doing quakes, especially if he's hardly ever around? Nothing against the guy, just doesn't make much sense.

[raato]

For almost all of my P99 life I have been in the guild that was #1. Now that I'm not playing P99, It seems silly how the end-game raid rules are structured currently. If I was in A/A currently, id be happy with the current rules, because no casual fucks are going to throw away their real lives like A/A do and therefore they won't secure any pixels.

Right now the raid rules benefit the 2 top guilds, that aint even debatable. The 1 Hour to FTE made raiding a lot more boring. You literally log in now just to collect free pixels. Beforehand, logging in, grouping up, setting up rotations, all while the dragon was INCOMING was what made raiding so thrilling. Now you're hard pressed to wipe on 96% of the mobs.

So the current raid rules made A/A raiding boring to the extend that a ton of veterans just don't even play this game now, and smaller guilds are still getting next to nothing. But it's a damn good server to level some alts on.

The person that dedicates more time should get to see more pixels, thats the point of video games. But we are here to experience Classic Everquest, so a line should be drawn.

There are a lot of better ways to go about this than the current rules. Bag limits, C/R/FFA rotations, whatever, something has to be better than this.

This. I'd also rather take coth-ducking or no-csr train wars instead of current system any day, atleast it would make raiding top end more interesting for those who its designed for on this server while maintaining certain level of mental illness thats supported by P99 staff. I know we wouldn't most likely get much done, but we aren't supposed to and I'm fine with that.

The real problem is over population and only way to fix it is new server(s) and movelog, reduce spawn times (or more earthquakes) or adjust raid targets harder and more rewarding pixel wise to match the current population, one way is classic another two aren't. I guess one way to fix this is also Sirken telling 90% of the server population to gtfo like he just did.

--

Also 2 questions about TAKP. 1.) Does prenerf CoS still drop? and 2.) How about holgresh elder beads?

[khanable]

I don't know enough about the server to answer that raato. You can ask on their forums. They're a nice bunch.

[arsenalpow]

Mistle is pretty active on TAKP I think. He could likely answer some questions.

[Daldaen]

TAKP has almost 0 legacy items.

0 prenerfed CoFs and Holgresh beads. Also no prenerf Fungi staves, Manastones, etc.

The intent of the server is to emulate Al'Kabor as it existed and on AK there were about 2-3 of those legacy items handed out at GM events. The GMs over there realize that it would be very unfair to hand out items of such power at a GM event so they didn't.

A few guises exist I think from people who did lots of beta testing for the server as those were pretty commonly rewarded at GM events on AK. Also their anniversary custom quest they did this year awarded some Rubicite armor, again an item with almost no impact on balance or unfairness. Just fashionquest.

-----

The biggest limiting factor for TAK for most players will be the limited QoL features you've come to expect using the nonclassic Titanium client here. Specifically no scroll wheel to 3rd person, no mana shown in inventory, no DoT damage shown and no hidecorpses looted.

They do have a lot of custom user account features that are incredible though. You can pull up your game account tab and it will show you all 10 of your accounts, where every character is camped out (zone and location), and their stats. You can also click on a link under each character to see a complete list of their inventory and bank, alphabetized. Furthermore you can easily move a character from one of your accounts to another account you have. So for example you can move your Cleric off its account onto another account to Rez a character on the clerics account. Or a wizard to port, etc. This account moving tool only takes about 15 seconds to process the move. It's great.

[arsenalpow]

The Phinny QOL features are what really hooked me. After living in the wilderness that was p99, finally having a guild window and raid window made life soooooo much easier.

[khanable]

The Phinny QOL features are what really hooked me. After living in the wilderness that was p99, finally having a guild window and raid window made life soooooo much easier.

NOT CLASSIC FEEL BAD ABOUT YOUR ENJOYMENT

[Daldaen]

NOT CLASSIC FEEL BAD ABOUT YOUR ENJOYMENT

I have no qualms with Phinigels not classic status. It doesn't aim to be classic. It aims to progress. Eventually into the level 105 expansions and shit.

[arsenalpow]

NOT CLASSIC FEEL BAD ABOUT YOUR ENJOYMENT

I enjoy not having to do corpse runs naked. Playing on P99 is like when Goku was training in extra gravity, and then once he's back in regular gravity shits way easier just by comparison. Killing some of these PoP targets will be a challenge, but it's not wall staring for 16 hours and lawyerqyesting while getting tells of concede the entire time.

[Legday]

I guess one way to fix this is also Sirken telling 90% of the server population to gtfo like he just did.

I guess if we're going with him telling them to gtfo then we might as well all agree that the 90% figure is incorrect and irrelevant.

The number of people that he really told to gtfo are the participants of the raid scene that aren't A/A, and A/A active members make up at least 25% of those, but probably more like 40%. So let's not all shit our pants over a 90/10 ratio like it's so lopsided. At least half of the server isn't even part of the raid scene.

[khanable]

I have no qualms with Phinigels not classic status. It doesn't aim to be classic. It aims to progress. Eventually into the level 105 expansions and shit.

I enjoy not having to do corpse runs naked. Playing on P99 is like when Goku was training in extra gravity, and then once he's back in regular gravity shits way easier just by comparison. Killing some of these PoP targets will be a challenge, but it's not wall staring for 16 hours and lawyerqyesting while getting tells of concede the entire time.

My post was sarcasm

Nerds

[arsenalpow]

I guess if we're going with him telling them to gtfo then we might as well all agree that the 90% figure is incorrect and irrelevant.

The number of people that he really told to gtfo are the participants of the raid scene that aren't A/A, and A/A active members make up at least 25% of those, but probably more like 40%. So let's not all shit our pants over a 90/10 ratio like it's so lopsided. At least half of the server isn't even part of the raid scene.

How deep is the active Afternath and Awakened rosters? Then compare that to every single guild that raids. All of CSG, Fires, Venerate, Anon, Div, Kittens, etc. I'm not even sure which side rustle belongs in because you definitely have some reformer neckbeards that could relapse at any time.

You A/A nuts are so oblivious to everyone else though. I'm not surprised that you would think you comprise 40% of the raid scene.

[arsenalpow]

My post was sarcasm

Nerds

I know. Just elaborating.

[Legday]

How deep is the active Afternath and Awakened rosters? Then compare that to every single guild that raids. All of CSG, Fires, Venerate, Anon, Div, Kittens, etc. I'm not even sure which side rustle belongs in because you definitely have some reformer neckbeards that could relapse at any time.

You A/A nuts are so oblivious to everyone else though. I'm not surprised that you would think you comprise 40% of the raid scene.

And I'm not surprised, given your history and the fact that you still shit post on these forums, that you took my 25-40 spread and called it 40.

The point is that its not 10, since some other people have used that number to make Sirken's post look much more lopsided than it really is.

[deezy]

I'm not even sure which side rustle belongs in because you definitely have some reformer neckbeards that could relapse at any time.
I'm pretty sure the rustle environment is to get the most amount of pixels for the least amount of effort.

[arsenalpow]

And I'm not surprised, given your history and the fact that you still shit post on these forums, that you took my 25-40 spread and called it 40.

The point is that its not 10, since some other people have used that number to make Sirken's post look much more lopsided than it really is.

My point is that you and the rest of A/A are severely underestimating the number of raid entities on p99. If they don't even come near your bubble it's like they don't exist to you.

[Legday]

My point is that you and the rest of A/A are severely underestimating the number of raid entities on p99. If they don't even come near your bubble it's like they don't exist to you.

Spoken like someone who isn't around anymore, at all.

I know, probably pretty close to exactly, how many numbers all of those guilds that you mentioned pull at different times of the day, etc.

The reason for this is that those guilds are getting involved more and more so we actually are looking out for them to be competing on any given spawn. Something I was also aware of when you all were around, but the fact that you think I/we didn't doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know about you.

[Daldaen]

My post was sarcasm

Nerds

Does not compute.

[kotton05]

Sirken didn't tell the casual 90% to leave. But he said if you're unhappy there are other places. I mean that's such a neutral viewpoint stop trying to twist what he said nerds.

[Eponymous Anonymous]

I'm pretty sure the rustle environment is to get the most amount of pixels for the least amount of effort.

They put in plenty of effort for those pixels, just not in game.

[arsenalpow]

Spoken like someone who isn't around anymore, at all.

I know, probably pretty close to exactly, how many numbers all of those guilds that you mentioned pull at different times of the day, etc.

The reason for this is that those guilds are getting involved more and more so we actually are looking out for them to be competing on any given spawn. Something I was also aware of when you all were around, but the fact that you think I/we didn't doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know about you.

You're making my point for me. You're just now seeing Fires/Venerate at the starting line so now you consider them a raiding entity, whereas a very large guild like kittens doesn't count in your eyes because you don't see them in your bubble. There's a massive amount of smaller guilds that would love to raid but the cost of doing business is too high on p99 so they're relegated to a rogue epic here and there, or maybe some scraps in Hate or Fear. That's not on your radar so they aren't factored into your count. I don't think you're maliciously dismissing them, you just have your hardcore raid blinders on.

[Breaken]

You guys (Chest and Legday) are arguing two different topics.

Chest is right, A/A makes up maybe 10% of the raid scene. Legday is also right, A/A makes up maybe 40%+ of the ToV/Kael/Skyshrine/Thurgadin/etc. raid scene. So.. Sure, there are droves of guilds and players raiding on this server. They raid Plane of Fear clears, Plane of Hate crawls, maybe Chardok Royals, maybe Halls of Testing clears.. But they don't show up for the end game raiding. Of course they will say it is due to the raid scene, and I am sure that is true for them. But either way, if you don't show up to try, how can you argue?

[Raev]

Also 2 questions about TAKP. 1.) Does prenerf CoS still drop? and 2.) How about holgresh elder beads?

TAKP is not a progression server. So no manastones, no elder beads, no circlets, etc. As far as I know this is because the original Al'Kabor booted up straight into Planes of Power, so one one had them on AK live.

[Legday]

You guys (Chest and Legday) are arguing two different topics.

Chest is right, A/A makes up maybe 10% of the raid scene. Legday is also right, A/A makes up maybe 40%+ of the ToV/Kael/Skyshrine/Thurgadin/etc. raid scene. So.. Sure, there are droves of guilds and players raiding on this server. They raid Plane of Fear clears, Plane of Hate crawls, maybe Chardok Royals, maybe Halls of Testing clears.. But they don't show up for the end game raiding. Of course they will say it is due to the raid scene, and I am sure that is true for them. But either way, if you don't show up to try, how can you argue?

Still, 10% is criminally low and the number is being used to make a point (falsely).

A/A each have over 100 active raiders. Being conservative we can call that 200 active raiders (it is much higher). 200 is 10% of 2,000. Can you honestly tell me that there are 1,800 non-A/A active raiders on this server?

Again, I don't mean to nitpick the number but calling it 90/10 is clouding the issue.

[Daldaen]

TAKP is not a progression server. So no manastones, no elder beads, no circlets, etc. As far as I know this is because the original Al'Kabor booted up straight into Planes of Power, so one one had them on AK live.

In my guild on AK one shadowknight had a prenerf CoS he won in a GM event. It was OP as hell though and the GMs on TAK decided to never give out those items. There was some debate on it during alpha but fortunately saner heads prevailed.

None of those OP items that got removed on Live will exist on TAK. EQ as it was meant to be played!

[arsenalpow]

You guys (Chest and Legday) are arguing two different topics.

Chest is right, A/A makes up maybe 10% of the raid scene. Legday is also right, A/A makes up maybe 40%+ of the ToV/Kael/Skyshrine/Thurgadin/etc. raid scene. So.. Sure, there are droves of guilds and players raiding on this server. They raid Plane of Fear clears, Plane of Hate crawls, maybe Chardok Royals, maybe Halls of Testing clears.. But they don't show up for the end game raiding. Of course they will say it is due to the raid scene, and I am sure that is true for them. But either way, if you don't show up to try, how can you argue?

They don't show up because of the risk vs reward. The reward is shiny pixels. The risk is being exposed to any or all of the 10 p99 raid scene plagues.

[Raev]

So let's not all shit our pants over a 90/10 ratio like it's so lopsided.

Well, if you are counting the players who quit after realizing the raid scene was bat shit crazy, it's probably 99:1. And let's not forget that only about 50 people actually race. Everyone else just zergs, and as Dannyl pointed out with 1 hour it's pretty boring if you aren't racing (which is also boring).

[arsenalpow]

Still, 10% is criminally low and the number is being used to make a point (falsely).

A/A each have over 100 active raiders. Being conservative we can call that 200 active raiders (it is much higher). 200 is 10% of 2,000. Can you honestly tell me that there are 1,800 non-A/A active raiders on this server?

Again, I don't mean to nitpick the number but calling it 90/10 is clouding the issue.

I mean we could call it 80/20 but it's splitting hairs. A vast majority of the server can't progress through content due to the costs associated with raiding on p99. None of those guilds want handouts, they just don't want to sock, batphone, screen share, rule lawyer, etc so in your eyes they don't deserve anything.

[arsenalpow]

Well, if you are counting the players who quit after realizing the raid scene was bat shit crazy, it's probably 99:1. And let's not forget that only about 50 people actually race. Everyone else just zergs, and as Dannyl pointed out with 1 hour it's pretty boring if you aren't racing (which is also boring).

That's also a fair point if you consider everyone that walked away after being exposed to the raid scene. BDA toughed it out for years, other guilds got absorbed (raptured, enraptured, full circle) and others just quit (BDA, HK, etc)

[Legday]

Well, if you are counting the players who quit after realizing the raid scene was bat shit crazy, it's probably 99:1. And let's not forget that only about 50 people actually race. Everyone else just zergs, and as Dannyl pointed out with 1 hour it's pretty boring if you aren't racing (which is also boring).

You won't get any argument from me on the one hour lockout & racing rules in general.

Shit sucks.

Bring back mages and insta pulls.

[Culkasi]

Make another blue server already. Keep a classic timeline and then when velious is released allow transfers from current server. They can rotate there if they want.

I honestly don't get why they don't do this. The really interesting part would be to see which of the servers would, over time, have the best and most healthy population. I know where my money is.

[Sirken]

Sirken didn't tell the casual 90% to leave. But he said if you're unhappy there are other places. I mean that's such a neutral viewpoint stop trying to twist what he said nerds.

thank you for both restoring my faith in this community's reading comprehension skills, and also for not trying to twist my words in either a positive or negative way to suit your personal agenda.

[Fasttimes]

You won't get any argument from me on the one hour lockout & racing rules in general.

Shit sucks.

Bring back mages and insta pulls.

Bring back jav pulling and camping at at eashan door. Mages sucked

[bigjerry]

thank you for both restoring my faith in this community's reading comprehension skills, and also for not trying to twist my words in either a positive or negative way to suit your personal agenda.

this sirken post is at the threshold of readable length. if you are reading a sirken post of double this size, your forum chops are lacking.

[arsenalpow]

thank you for both restoring my faith in this community's reading comprehension skills, and also for not trying to twist my words in either a positive or negative way to suit your personal agenda.

What's my personal agenda? I don't have a skin in the p99 game anymore. Neither does Raev or any of the other retired folks that agree with me? Maybe, just maybe you're wrong.

[Raev]

I'm not 100% retired, but I'm only logging in for a few batphones a week and I haven't done any farming in months.

Somehow I can't seem to explain to the staff that the vast majority of players here would be fine with competition as long as that competition doesn't center around poopsocking, undetectable cheating, 3AM batphones, and rule lawyering. Rogean automating repops would be a massive step forward here.

[Pokesan]

sirken didn't tell casuals to leave. he told them to leave if they want to raid.

that's an important difference for some reason

[Barcelona]

I personally was not around during the R/C/FFA days, and I may not understand fully how it all worked. It is my understanding that this system allowed for all of the above requests, in a fair and negotiable way (everyone gave up something).

It allowed for the:
1. competition that some crave
2. a chance for those to enjoy encounters they may not otherwise have,
3. hell, it even allowed for the poopsock 16 hour wallstaring if that was your thing.

It seems to me none of these were all of the time 24/7.

All things in moderation I suppose

It almost seems what we need is everyone to come to the table and develop this system again, as it pertains to at least SOME VELIOUS RAID MOBS, if not, all of them. I for one personally enjoy the rush of competition, with no uncontested rotations. I guess what I am wondering is this:

Was this R/C/FFA system a way to have guilds compete with each other, with whom are on the same level, give or take, of competition?

[Naethyn]

The problem with AC is that it doesn't reduce the maximum potential damage, it only reduces the number of high damage hits you take. That means no matter how much AC you stack you will always take max hits. For this reason it is far better to just have max HP for targets like AoW, Red Dragons, and Growth minis. Does that mean AC is broke? No, it just doesn't make it impossible to be max hit.

[arsenalpow]

I personally was not around during the R/C/FFA days, and I may not understand fully how it all worked. It is my understanding that this system allowed for all of the above requests, in a fair and negotiable way (everyone gave up something).

It allowed for the:
1. competition that some crave
2. a chance for those to enjoy encounters they may not otherwise have,
3. hell, it even allowed for the poopsock 16 hour wallstaring if that was your thing.

It seems to me none of these were all of the time 24/7.

All things in moderation I suppose

It almost seems what we need is everyone to come to the table and develop this system again, as it pertains to at least SOME VELIOUS RAID MOBS, if not, all of them. I for one personally enjoy the rush of competition, with no uncontested rotations. I guess what I am wondering is this:

Was this R/C/FFA system a way to have guilds compete with each other, with whom are on the same level, give or take, of competition?

I'll try to answer this but I'm on a phone. The system allowed for differing play styles but the end result was the class C big dogs were still getting the vast majority of the kills. Class R had a rotation for a year that eventually fell apart when the big guilds (BDA, Taken, Div) got frustrated with the way the smaller guilds would each keep a rotation slot but continue to ally for targets thus bloating the rotation. This led to class R being hardcore-lite.

The p99 raid scene is an arms race. Once a new effective tactic becomes discovered it gets adopted by everyone. Not using the best tactics means you don't get loot so everyone is forced to adapt to the highest common denominator. The class system could come back into play but there would have to be an insane amount of cooperation between all the class R guilds. Historically that never works out long term because you end up with 6-10 dividing up 33% of the content, and realistically it will be less than that because you can be sure there will be a selection of mobs that only class C gets access to (in kunark only class C guilds got access to VP)

[Ravager]

And I'm not surprised, given your history and the fact that you still shit post on these forums, that you took my 25-40 spread and called it 40.

The point is that its not 10, since some other people have used that number to make Sirken's post look much more lopsided than it really is.

It is lopsided, since one side is bigger than the other and the 60-75% side (going by your numbers) got told to go play somewhere else. That's a pretty significant portion of the server.

[Bubbles]

The original server rules were the first group of associated people to put 15 butts on a spawn point got the mob.

That was how little the staff wanted to be involved in the raid scene in the beginning.

Fast forward 8 years, and here we are. Only difference is the raiding scene still has a self-important view of itself.

Nilbog didn't build this beast to grab popcorn and see who got Lord Nagafen each week. New flash.

[Raev]

The problem with AC is that it doesn't reduce the maximum potential damage

This is neat, simple, logical, and wrong. For example, suppose you are tanking the Avatar of War. A full round requires:

Flurry check (say 0.5)
Dual wield check x2 (say 0.8)
Double attack check x4 (say 0.8)
Hit check x 8 (say 0.6)
Max hit check x 8 (say 0.55 for an HP stacking warrior, or 0.40 for an AC stacking warrior)


So the Avatar will get 8 max hits on an HP stacking warrior approximately every 50,000 attack rounds (p = 0.5 * 0.8^6 * 0.6^8 * 0.55^8) and on the AC stacking warrior every 700,000 attack rounds (p = 0.5 * 0.8^6 * 0.6^8 * 0.55^8).

TLDR: AC does in fact reduce the maximum practical damage.

[Fasttimes]

Basically all you need is 46.5 monks with whirlwind and mallets

[Naethyn]

This is neat, simple, logical, and wrong. For example, suppose you are tanking the Avatar of War. A full round requires:

Flurry check (say 0.5)
Dual wield check x2 (say 0.8)
Double attack check x4 (say 0.8)
Hit check x 8 (say 0.6)
Max hit check x 8 (say 0.55 for an HP stacking warrior, or 0.40 for an AC stacking warrior)


So the Avatar will get 8 max hits on an HP stacking warrior approximately every 50,000 attack rounds (p = 0.5 * 0.8^6 * 0.6^8 * 0.55^8) and on the AC stacking warrior every 700,000 attack rounds (p = 0.5 * 0.8^6 * 0.6^8 * 0.55^8).

TLDR: AC does in fact reduce the maximum practical damage.

AC will defineatly reduce the total damage taken over the fight, but my point is the mobs maximum hit does not get reduced. With more AC you'll see a 1568 hit from AoW far less often, but it won't prevent it from occurring. This means a tank with more health is preferred over a tank who takes less a damage over time with a rolling ch chain.

[Skew]

Basically all you need is 46.5 monks with whirlwind and mallets

[FatMice]

I would to be apart of that.

[FatMice]

*love

[khanable]

*love

I spent 30 seconds very curious which way this would go

[Raev]

I still want to do it. This server is 95% monk so I'm sure it's possible.

Breaken, Detoxx, you know you wanna see this happen . . . .

[Phantasm]

My mallet/disc stand ready

[Legday]

It is lopsided, since one side is bigger than the other and the 60-75% side (going by your numbers) got told to go play somewhere else. That's a pretty significant portion of the server.

Me: It is lopsided, just not 90/10.

You: It is not 90/10, but it is lopsided.

[SpinFin]

I definitely notice AC having a huge benefit during smaller group type adventures.

For the top end content, HP is king imo. AoW/Tunare/Vyemm

This is comment is based on 1500+ or 1600+ AC depending on weapon/situational gear choice.

[Danth]

I definitely notice AC having a huge benefit during smaller group type adventures.

For the top end content, HP is king imo. AoW/Tunare/Vyemm

This is comment is based on 1500+ or 1600+ AC depending on weapon/situational gear choice.

For group content you're looking at 1100-1300 AC unless you're talking about people who're overgeared for the content. Don't need north Temple Veeshan gear to do Velketor or Necropolis. That's not really worth discussing any more than the effectiveness of level thirty players in Crushbone.

Also, somehow we went from, "If you want to raid, either be hardcore, ally with those who are, or go someplace else," to a discussion on the relative value of armor versus health. Odd.

Danth

[Ravager]

Me: It is lopsided, just not 90/10.

You: It is not 90/10, but it is lopsided.

You presented 60/40 up to 75/25 as though it was more acceptable. My point is it's still treating the majority of the player base like they don't matter, which is fine. If they feel that way, they should just be up front about it, say this is how it is on the front page and maybe they can save a lot of people a lot of time fighting a broken raid system.

"Relive the classic Everquest MMORPG Gaming Experience as it was in 1999 and onward, except for raiding."

[Llodd]

Dear Sirken,
There is no where else for those of us who don't want to sell our souls for pixels to go for as good or realistic classic experience. ~(something you happily and with conviction tell us everytime you stream - "nobody does classic eq like p99")

Open up another server like some people have suggested, one for the hardcore, and one for those that wouldn't mind rotating a few things once in a while. Doesnt even have to be full on rotations, just something that lets those that would like to see classic EQ at the top end once in a while without sacrificing their lives.

[Sadiki]

you're a hypocrit

there is no right way to play Everquest, just because you like to do some things doesn't make it "classic" or " the way it should be played" or "what it was about on live". It's Everquest, you make your own fun. People like to spend their days in EC tunnel making plat, others twinking alts, others raiding hardcore, others helping others etc etc...

your view of the game isn't the only one, you don't have the BEST way to play Everquest

grow up, people who spend more effort will get more loot. that's how Everquest has always worked

no offense pal but your parents should have smacked you a bit more growing up, you're embarrassing yourself

hahaha R&F is my favorite forum. Hard to take this seriously, but -

On live if you felt like doing a quest you could usually just go find the NPC up and do it.
On live you could just wait for a NToV full repop and randomly schedule a day to go kill a few of them and they would likely still be up.
On live you couldn't do any of the stuff that's encouraged by the rules here, because they actually supported a Play Nice Policy.

Stuff spawned and was usually up for days regardless of what it was. Here, even the most minor things are destroyed within seconds. There is no 'best way' to play EQ, but it's not an opinion that this isn't what the game was. You only keep that kind of fun and community by driving out the toxicity that entered MMOs after EQ's prime-time, not by catering to it. I appreciate that Sirken wants to make everyone happy, but EQ actually had a sense of wonder and community. Putting in 'more effort' didn't consist of joining a certain guild and staring at a wall while they tag a mob for you. You joined like minded individuals and dungeon crawling was fun and exciting.

The fact that people would rather 'win' everything than have fun on an EQ emulation server confuses me. If your fondest memories include socking spawns and killing dragons with different models at zonelines over and over, I feel bad for you.

[Papa]

tl;dr we cant cater to everyone so we're going to cater to the extremely neckbeardy no-lifer minority with EXTREMELY non-classic server mechanics

[RedXIII]

hahaha R&F is my favorite forum. Hard to take this seriously, but -

On live if you felt like doing a quest you could usually just go find the NPC up and do it.
On live you could just wait for a NToV full repop and randomly schedule a day to go kill a few of them and they would likely still be up.
On live you couldn't do any of the stuff that's encouraged by the rules here, because they actually supported a Play Nice Policy.

Stuff spawned and was usually up for days regardless of what it was. Here, even the most minor things are destroyed within seconds. There is no 'best way' to play EQ, but it's not an opinion that this isn't what the game was. You only keep that kind of fun and community by driving out the toxicity that entered MMOs after EQ's prime-time, not by catering to it. I appreciate that Sirken wants to make everyone happy, but EQ actually had a sense of wonder and community. Putting in 'more effort' didn't consist of joining a certain guild and staring at a wall while they tag a mob for you. You joined like minded individuals and dungeon crawling was fun and exciting.

The fact that people would rather 'win' everything than have fun on an EQ emulation server confuses me. If your fondest memories include socking spawns and killing dragons with different models at zonelines over and over, I feel bad for you.

consider red99 server. its like that. dragons waiting for you there for ages...

[maskedmelonpai]

Really the only ones left out are the 10% of vocal casual whiners. Everyone else just play the game and level up or join A/A or CSG if they want. It's not 90% who are complaining. All the whining casuals on the boards here are a gross misrepresentation of actual casuals who just play and fun. All the people on this board pretending to be casual and whining are just failed neckbeards ^^

[pasi]

It's almost like there is a reason why every single major MMORPG (including Everquest) instanced content from 2003 onward.

This server intends to mimic (mostly) Everquest from a mechanical perspective in the appropriate era. 7 day respawns that drop 2-4 loot for 80 players. These problems are inherent with EQ of this era - there isn't enough content on the high end.

It's unlikely to change.
Don't like it? Play TAKP, P2002, Phinigel, etc.

[Barcelona]

consider red99 server. its like that. dragons waiting for you there for ages...

I honestly don't understand why this isn't happening, everyone says "open a new server" when there is an almost empty server there for the taking. From what I am told starting fresh there isn't even that difficulty because of the crazy exp bonuses there. Get 60 in a flash and raid what you want, have the added bonus of "handling things on your own" when it comes to contested raid mobs...

[Nexii]

It's almost like there is a reason why every single major MMORPG (including Everquest) instanced content from 2003 onward.

This server intends to mimic (mostly) Everquest from a mechanical perspective in the appropriate era. 7 day respawns that drop 2-4 loot for 80 players. These problems are inherent with EQ of this era - there isn't enough content on the high end.

It's unlikely to change.
Don't like it? Play TAKP, P2002, Phinigel, etc.

Later MMOs instituted instanced content because it was cheaper to administer, not because it was inherently better.

You could have automated quakes every 7 days or so and no need for instances. It would still be open world competition.

The second issue is that blue is overpopulated. P99 would do better to shutter red and open another blue server. Red servers were never more than 10% of the playerbase on live either.

[Vallanor]

I honestly don't understand why this isn't happening, everyone says "open a new server" when there is an almost empty server there for the taking. From what I am told starting fresh there isn't even that difficulty because of the crazy exp bonuses there. Get 60 in a flash and raid what you want, have the added bonus of "handling things on your own" when it comes to contested raid mobs...

I started reading this and thought you were going to say "I don't understand why people keep suggesting this" but you took a slightly different turn. :)

It's a PvP server which is fundamentally different from a PvE server in a multitude of ways. The fact that it's underpopulated doesn't suddenly make it a viable alternative to a crowded PvE server. Most of us play on blue because EQ PvP isn't our cup of tea. No amount of free dragons will change that.

[Pokesan]

It's almost like there is a reason why every single major MMORPG (including Everquest) instanced content from 2003 onward.

This server intends to mimic (mostly) Everquest from a mechanical perspective in the appropriate era. 7 day respawns that drop 2-4 loot for 80 players. These problems are inherent with EQ of this era - there isn't enough content on the high end.

It's unlikely to change.
Don't like it? Play TAKP, P2002, Phinigel, etc.

things could change very quickly if we got rid of the drugs at the very top of the raiding scene

[Barcelona]

Completely understood. But some complain about variance, not a thing on red99. Others complain about wanting to really compete and not have to track/poopsock. Also not a thing on red, well, you may want to "track" where competing guilds are at times I imagine. :D

[Lammy]

But either way, if you don't show up to try, how can you argue?

I think it's because standing at the line for potentially 16 hours straight is not most people idea of fun.

[Tankdan]

Make another blue server already. Keep a classic timeline and then when velious is released allow transfers from current server. They can rotate there if they want.

Classic timeline blows. It's the reason most content wasn't farmed until 1-2 expansions later. NTOV's glory days for most people were beginning and middle of Luclin. It was even raided in PoP by most guilds. And most people weren't even 60 when Velious launched, which is why a lot of top end guilds had nearly free reign on the top raid zones. If P99 server was classic timeline we'd be in Depths of Darkhollow expansion right now and the server would be beaten and dead 2-3 years ago before it ever reached it's population peak.

Should do 2 years per expansion, first year is no rotations, 2nd year is Class C/R/FFA rotations. Rinse repeat for each expansion till the end of PoP then start over again if there is still an audience.

[Krashin]

I think it's because standing at the line for potentially 16 hours straight is not most people idea of fun.

Truth. Kerb made it about 15 mins on the line and said

" Turns out this isn't for me" and gated

[Papa]

Really the only ones left out are the 10% of vocal casual whiners. Everyone else just play the game and level up or join A/A or CSG if they want. It's not 90% who are complaining. All the whining casuals on the boards here are a gross misrepresentation of actual casuals who just play and fun. All the people on this board pretending to be casual and whining are just failed neckbeards ^^

someone ban this man who is posting around his other banned forum account :cool:

[Mistle]

That was how little the staff wanted to be involved in the raid scene in the beginning.

CSR on this server should be forced to participate in their own rules if they want to implement them.

Let's see how long these rules last then.

There is no way Sirken would do a hundredth of the shit he forces everyone else here to do for mobs.

[Sadiki]

CSR on this server should be forced to participate in their own rules if they want to implement them.

Let's see how long these rules last then.

There is no way Sirken would do a hundredth of the shit he forces everyone else here to do for mobs.

Sirken forms up a GM guild, goes on to FTE 100% of mobs for the next 6 months.

[maskedmelonpai]

CSR on this server should be forced to participate in their own rules if they want to implement them.

Let's see how long these rules last then.

There is no way Sirken would do a hundredth of the shit he forces everyone else here to do for mobs.

He don't force anyone to do anything and that is his point. Everyone chooses to track stuff and hanging out at the door in tov. That is his point about socking and why they won't change variance, because people are still hangin' out for the duration of a spawn window waitin' for it to spawn. If you don't want to do it, join a guild with people who do it so you don't have to. It super simple ^^

[wrighter00]

My point is that you and the rest of A/A are severely underestimating the number of raid entities on p99. If they don't even come near your bubble it's like they don't exist to you.

With the AW / AM suspension agreement, there were a few casual, but capable guilds involved. Those who were left out were added as they found out more. When AM was back for the next AW suspension agreement, their were less large targets to go around and less smaller targets to give out. AM also wanted targets to stay specifically for Racing, practically knowing they'd be the only ones wasting time sitting there. They also decided to move on mobs they assumed some guilds wouldn't down at the tail end and They couldn't stand the thought of Awakened getting them. On this past AW suspension, while some other people were considering including Kittens, Divinity, Infernus, Paradigm Shift, Veloci Shift etc more. AM basically outlined that they wanted nearly all the prime targets and left minimal targets that were the lowest tier possible. Targets that would have gone to the appropriate guilds.

If that's not spot on with your post, idk what is. People have it a bit backwards. It's not that the newer or casual guilds are whiners or entitled. Some of us are just trying to be agreeBle so that no one has to waste their time and nerd out in max effort mode all the time. It shouldn't be that hard to understand

[bktroost]

I started reading this and thought you were going to say "I don't understand why people keep suggesting this" but you took a slightly different turn. :)

It's a PvP server which is fundamentally different from a PvE server in a multitude of ways. The fact that it's underpopulated doesn't suddenly make it a viable alternative to a crowded PvE server. Most of us play on blue because EQ PvP isn't our cup of tea. No amount of free dragons will change that.

No but moving A/A and their competitive nature to Red makes every ounce of sense in the world. Many A/A members want to return to the days of instant engages and pulling with batphones ringing as they did in years past. One of the biggest complaints from the competitive side is the lack of excitement and chance to prove yourself with skill.

Can you imagine trying to do Vulak or Vyemm with such speed that your opponent cannot even form their raid as the other guild controls an enemy train and attempts to battle you mid fight? I'm sure the competition of Red would being a whole new element of fun to the playstyle that A/A long for.

I've even heard many members and leaders in the hardcore scene say that if mass transfer were an option they would do it.

[maskedmelonpai]

someone ban this man who is posting around his other banned forum account :cool:

IRONY (^。~)v

[mattydef]

"Everyone chooses to stand at the tov door". I'm pretty that's the exact opposite of the truth. Most people actually don't want to sit in one spot for 16 hours and call that competing, that's the point trying to be made in the majority of these threads that pop up. If they want people to compete for these mobs they should get rid of the variance all together, let a specific number of people per guild line up and race for the FTE and not worry about socking whatsoever.

[Sadiki]

I've even heard many members and leaders in the hardcore scene say that if mass transfer were an option they would do it.

Nemce pls don't leave

[Rang]

I can't wait to quit this server for the next TLP so all the winners in A/A can say "SEE THOSE CASUALS SUCK SO BAD AT EQ LUL". Enjoy your coffin.

[Metalopolis]

He don't force anyone to do anything and that is his point. Everyone chooses to track stuff and hanging out at the door in tov. That is his point about socking and why they won't change variance, because people are still hangin' out for the duration of a spawn window waitin' for it to spawn. If you don't want to do it, join a guild with people who do it so you don't have to. It super simple ^^

I mean if people are gonna sit on the line for the duration of a 16 hour variance window anyways, they might as well just decrease the variance; a 4 hour window would surely be more casual friendly.

[Skew]

No but moving A/A and their competitive nature to Red makes every ounce of sense in the world. Many A/A members want to return to the days of instant engages and pulling with batphones ringing as they did in years past. One of the biggest complaints from the competitive side is the lack of excitement and chance to prove yourself with skill.

Can you imagine trying to do Vulak or Vyemm with such speed that your opponent cannot even form their raid as the other guild controls an enemy train and attempts to battle you mid fight? I'm sure the competition of Red would being a whole new element of fun to the playstyle that A/A long for.

I've even heard many members and leaders in the hardcore scene say that if mass transfer were an option they would do it.


Id say half the top 2 raid guilds would love this , the other half really are warm bodies who dont want that kind of hassle. As someone who fluctuates between warm body and try-hard myself at this point in P99 if a large enough guild or group of friends were given the chance to /char copy to Red i would go. Never going to happen on a 50 pop server though or having to reroll. Id like to see 300 people move over from blue.

[BallzDeep]

No but moving A/A and their competitive nature to Red makes every ounce of sense in the world. Many A/A members want to return to the days of instant engages and pulling with batphones ringing as they did in years past. One of the biggest complaints from the competitive side is the lack of excitement and chance to prove yourself with skill.

Can you imagine trying to do Vulak or Vyemm with such speed that your opponent cannot even form their raid as the other guild controls an enemy train and attempts to battle you mid fight? I'm sure the competition of Red would being a whole new element of fun to the playstyle that A/A long for.

I've even heard many members and leaders in the hardcore scene say that if mass transfer were an option they would do it.

This is the kind of mentality that is wrong with the casuals. I don't often commend Sirken but I do in this situation. Why? Because no matter the situation and no matter who you are trying to cater to, someone will always try and get the upper hand. Move A/A to red? Next up and coming guild will decide they want more and will become the new A/A in time and someone will complain. You can't cater to everyone so you need to cater to the people who are willing to invest the most time into the project. I'm not saying it's smart to spend all your time in EQ but there are literally plenty of other progression type servers where you can play instanced raiding while still getting the dose of "OGC is better than AoS." The mentality still exists there but instead MQ is used.

When classic EQ was in Velious, 0 Targets were up in NToV. I was on Povar and Triton was clearing it constantly so the number 2 guild would not have a shot. People gravitate towards this game because the more time you put in, the more you will get. People like the feeling of superiority in video games. That applies to playing an Multi-player FPS with friends, Raiding instances in WoW or to classic EQ. In Everquest to feel superior you need to neckbeard and it is neckbearding to the fullest extent. Some people thrive and love that. Those people will always shit on the people who aren't willing to. This will always be the issue, there is no solution to the problem. The game was created this way and always has been this way. Anything different isn't classic Everquest.

[mattydef]

Do people not realize that almost everything about the current raid scene is un classic? Might as well go the extra mile and make it a little more tolerable for more than just the unemployed/retired/disabled.

[BallzDeep]

Do people not realize that almost everything about the current raid scene is un classic? Might as well go the extra mile and make it a little more tolerable for more than just the unemployed/retired/disabled.

Do you not realize that is impossible and someone will always go out of their way to go up and beyond? You put in a rotation and it's just a matter of time before more and more guilds join and one guild thinks that it's stupid they started with 3 guilds in the rotation and now there is 12. History will repeat itself. While the game isn't classic, neckbeards getting the mobs is classic in every open world game.

[Ravager]

The only ones who came to any realizations are the people who don't play here anymore.

[mattydef]

Do you not realize that is impossible and someone will always go out of their way to go up and beyond? You put in a rotation and it's just a matter of time before more and more guilds join and one guild thinks that it's stupid they started with 3 guilds in the rotation and now there is 12. History will repeat itself. While the game isn't classic, neckbeards getting the mobs is classic in every open world game.

I never said anything about a rotation smart guy. I'm sure everyone is willing to compete/race for fte, as long as they don't have to waste up to 16 hours of their time in order to try and do that. Last I checked standing in one spot looking at a wall didn't require any skill and isn't competitive at all, anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. Until the focus of competition is put specifically on the race for fte itself instead of the huge waiting windows, the people with the least amount of real life responsibilities will always have the edge. Lower variance, and i guarantee you will see way more people lining up to compete, but the neckbeards up top wouldn't want this because they pretend to want the challenge but once you take away their biggest advantage (no life) they will cry.

[Maner]

hahaha R&F is my favorite forum. Hard to take this seriously, but -

On live if you felt like doing a quest you could usually just go find the NPC up and do it.
On live you could just wait for a NToV full repop and randomly schedule a day to go kill a few of them and they would likely still be up.
On live you couldn't do any of the stuff that's encouraged by the rules here, because they actually supported a Play Nice Policy.

Stuff spawned and was usually up for days regardless of what it was. Here, even the most minor things are destroyed within seconds. There is no 'best way' to play EQ, but it's not an opinion that this isn't what the game was. You only keep that kind of fun and community by driving out the toxicity that entered MMOs after EQ's prime-time, not by catering to it. I appreciate that Sirken wants to make everyone happy, but EQ actually had a sense of wonder and community. Putting in 'more effort' didn't consist of joining a certain guild and staring at a wall while they tag a mob for you. You joined like minded individuals and dungeon crawling was fun and exciting.

The fact that people would rather 'win' everything than have fun on an EQ emulation server confuses me. If your fondest memories include socking spawns and killing dragons with different models at zonelines over and over, I feel bad for you.

this guy never played live in era

[bigjerry]

I mean if people are gonna sit on the line for the duration of a 16 hour variance window anyways, they might as well just decrease the variance; a 4 hour window would surely be more casual friendly.

already covered this long ago. increase variance until the camping stops or neckbeards start dying of exhaustion. 30 day variance. 180 day variance. restrict pixel flow until the bacterial colonies die of dehydration.

[mattydef]

already covered this long ago. increase variance until the camping stops or neckbeards start dying of exhaustion. 30 day variance. 180 day variance. restrict pixel flow until the bacterial colonies die of dehydration.

Pretty extreme solution, but I can get behind this.

[Sadiki]

this guy never played live in era
Confirmed only played Velious content after PoP was released.

[Troxx]

already covered this long ago. increase variance until the camping stops or neckbeards start dying of exhaustion. 30 day variance. 180 day variance. restrict pixel flow until the bacterial colonies die of dehydration.

I would happily get behind this.

There's so much that is not classic about this server when it comes to raiding that I would honestly and fully support the concept of letting a guild get a single instance of a single zone every 2 months or so that lasts a week so that those with lives can actually experience content.

The only bad aspect about p99 is the raid scene, but I understand that's a symptom of a drawn out timeline and a finite end. Given enough time there was bound to be everyone at the top and not enough content to go around.

[Pokesan]

already covered this long ago. increase variance until the camping stops or neckbeards start dying of exhaustion. 30 day variance. 180 day variance. restrict pixel flow until the bacterial colonies die of dehydration.

harsh but fair. the promise to stop socking was a lie players told to the staff.

don't we love our staff members folks?

[JurisDictum]

I fundamentally disagree EQ was ever supposed to be about competition. At least, not on a PvE server.

I never gave one shit who the "best runner" on p99 was -- and almost no one else does either. There are literally like 20 guys that give it a second thought in the entire world. Frankly, a mental health professional would have a field day with them.

No substantial amount of people actually care about the competition on p99. It's too bad people can't just enjoy their childhood game without a group of no-lifers ruining it for them.

[Mistle]

I fundamentally disagree EQ was ever supposed to be about competition. At least, not on a PvE server.

It definitely did not. Fact is the EQ devs didn't know wtf it was going to look like when EQ released. They only started to get any idea at all late in beta. The idea of sitting and camping mobs? Never occurred to them. They thought groups of people would get together and dive dungeons, moving as they went.

Obviously by the time Kunark released they had a better idea but Kunark's design was already well along by then. They did NOT embrace competition, they decided to try to lock the hardcore content behind a key that gated how many people could get into it.

It did not work.

Some servers enforced a rotation, some did not. Velious was the next try. Surely they could just put in enough content to keep everyone happy?

It did not work.

Luclin tried to do more. Yet more content, ring events, locking behind keys dropped by a cockblock mob, AND the monsters tuned so that the hardcore would be spending hours clearing and even fighting the boss mobs themselves rather than sniping at each other (VT under classic balance was quite the ordeal, as you guys might recall).

It did not work.

PoP was going to be the final try at it with a massive set of keyed boss raids but as it happened the dev team broke up (for the second time) during this period and the new people had a different idea. Fuck trying to manage the complaints coming from this retarded and unintended idea of "competition" - from this point on, they would just instance everything. No more competition.

This worked.

tl,dr: EQ was never intended to be about direct competition and those who think it was are the ones with a seriously deluded concept of the game, looked down on with bafflement by people who play games actually designed for competition from the start.

Seriously, though, it is embarrassing that we are even discussing this on the anniversary of the Bowling Green Massacre. Have you people no shame?

[Phantasm]

You will always hit a dead end in rationalizing with people if you flat out say competition was never intended or isn't healthy for the server and its population. Fact is, many people enjoy the thrill of racing against runners or guilds to prep and engage targets. Straight up, that shit is a blast.

Now where I think you might have ground to communicate is the premise of variance. Variance is obviously one of the most talked about issues with the raid scene, but its proposed goal (stop poopsocking) obviously has had little effect (not to mention its nonclassicness!)

Reduced variance enables many people to make time to actually get on the line.

Three step solution to the raid scene:
Reduce variance to 2-4 hours
Biweekly repops with a +/- 3 day variance on Wednesdays.
Have any rules written enforced and leave anything unsaid permissible. If you don't write down rules, you can never expect people to follow them. Someone comes up with a strat that ultimately is deemed as wrong, write it down as a rule. if someone breaks it after that, suspend/ban them. No gray area bullshit, make a plain as day representation of the rules that you will enforce and leave everything else fair game.

[Metalopolis]

Brad McQuaid himself said during one of their Pantheon streams that EQ was never meant to be competitive.....And neither will Pantheon be. They're designed as games with the intended purpose COOPERATION not competition.

This was in relation to numerous questions they received about Pantheon's fully-open-world nature and how they plan to prevent specific examples of the problems related to the P99 raid scene.

[maskedmelonpai]

it all a matter of cattle vs wolves. Some like to hunt, to stalk, to chase. They're quick and powerful. Some prefer to just sit around and graze. They're slow and fat or small and quick, but prone to panic. im a cattle who like to run wit the wolves. sometimes I get chewed on, but I gum them up good and I just keep at it until I tire of it and return to grazing. all cattle are free to run with the wolves. They don't chew so much on the ones in their pack cause they know they're useful.

If you a confused cattle you can continue lamenting the torment of the graze, or you can let some wolves lead you to another spot. there might be some adventure along the way, but you can always return to you grass if you get bored with it. cattle can't kill dragons without wolves though. they too slow and not mean enough.

[Skew]

Brad McQuaid himself said during one of their Pantheon streams that EQ was never meant to be competitive.....And neither will Pantheon be. They're designed as games with the intended purpose COOPERATION not competition.

This was in relation to numerous questions they received about Pantheon's fully-open-world nature and how they plan to prevent specific examples of the problems related to the P99 raid scene.

Hi Metal hows it going.

Brad McQuaid should have done a 101 course in Human Behaviour before making a game based around having lots of Humans playing it at once.
Its like we dont have 10,000 years of recorded civilisation to study.

[Tankdan]

Classic EQ felt like cooperation, not competition, to me. Our server rotated mobs with virtually no incidents, some servers were more cutthroat. Expansions came and went so fast that the top guild generally had the hardest zone(s) to themselves.

[Skew]

Theres competition everywhere in everything but sure, its relative.
I was on The Nameless and the competition there in the first few expansions was to have server firsts.

[Ravager]

Seriously, though, it is embarrassing that we are even discussing this on the anniversary of the Bowling Green Massacre. Have you people no shame?
Let's all bow our alternative heads in alternative silence.

[Ravager]

You will always hit a dead end in rationalizing with people if you flat out say competition was never intended or isn't healthy for the server and its population. Fact is, many people enjoy the thrill of racing against runners or guilds to prep and engage targets. Straight up, that shit is a blast.
Many =/= Most and here is the problem.

[Phantasm]

The "many" could kill everything on the server without batting a lash. Saying its not fair or demanding change effectively silences their wants which isnt fair. Comprimise is the precursor to change. If you want to change anything you need to stop thinking that the server is meant for casuals. Find a comprimise that closes the gap between casual/hardcore by maintaining a fair ruleset. Anything less is unfair to most and anything more is unfair to many.

Also, how are pvp minded games not competitive? Our server may not be pvp per se, but thats how things work. Simply saying its not supposed to be like this doesnt mean its broken, just different. Everyone is free to join, the price of admission may be a bit higher than you want to pay.

I think too many people come across as scorned lovers on here. Your wants and concern are beholden to your grudges. As it is the raid scene is most welcoming to the casual way of life, more welcoming than it ever has been on this server. Instead of taking advantage of this many opt to demand more from the hardcore. Why should they lament? When youre camping PS did you say "Go ahead and take some of his spawns"? No you say camp taken. The thing is the camps have been available for all, you just have to get there first

[kotton05]

It's easier than ever to be a raiding guild. In kunark it truly was about the top 5% that saw targets. Now guilds in rags are getting shots at top end mobs due to current rule set.

[Ravager]

The "many" could kill everything on the server without batting a lash. Saying its not fair or demanding change effectively silences their wants which isnt fair.

Sharing isn't fair. Got it.

[arsenalpow]

It's easier than ever to be a raiding guild. In kunark it truly was about the top 5% that saw targets. Now guilds in rags are getting shots at top end mobs due to current rule set.

Go on

[maskedmelonpai]

Sharing isn't fair. Got it.

Yes, there is nothing inherently fair about sharing. Would you care to share your paycheck or wife with the good elfs of this p99 or your new home phinny?

And no, that doesn't mean sharing cant be fair, only that it is not necessarily fair. It is application dependent ^^

[Raev]

it all a matter of cattle vs wolves.

The biggest problem this server has is people like you intentionally distorting the picture into an R/K type imbalance. The vast majority of casual players would be fine with a competitive system that didn't revolve around poopsocking, cheating, etc. The problem with EQ is that the mechanics are just straight up terrible for direct same-zone player competition (see Troll's post).

[Phantasm]

Sharing isn't fair. Got it.

Demanding blood from people who are willing to invest a lot of time kind of is

[Mythanor]

Yes, there is nothing inherently fair about sharing. Would you care to share your paycheck or wife with the good elfs of this p99 or your new home phinny?

And no, that doesn't mean sharing cant be fair, only that it is not necessarily fair. It is application dependent ^^

sharing pixels in a free elf simulatar =/= sharing wife with some poopsocking neckbeards. And the fact you even make that comparison and think it's a valid one, says more about you then anything else you've posted....

Safe Travels.

[Ravager]

Yes, there is nothing inherently fair about sharing. Would you care to share your paycheck or wife with the good elfs of this p99 or your new home phinny?

And no, that doesn't mean sharing cant be fair, only that it is not necessarily fair. It is application dependent ^^
False Analogy. Try again.

[Daldaen]

Launch Luclin. Make it a one-way trip for the first 6-12 months. So that once you're in Luclin you may not return to Velious or Kunark.

This way the neckbeards would rush to Luclin for AAs and new raid content and the casuals would have their opportunity to experience Velious raids unmolested.

[Ravager]

Demanding blood from people who are willing to invest a lot of time kind of is
My nieces like to make busywork for themselves and call it work too, but at the end of the day it's still just a game and they're not forcing the other kids on the playground to play by their rules and telling them to leave if they don't like it.

What's remarkable is there's a server designed specifically for the kind of gameplay those that want to work or compete for it that is going basically unused. But it's not competition they want, it's "winning" they want, so they play on the server they can "win".

[maskedmelonpai]

sharing pixels in a free elf simulatar =/= sharing wife with some poopsocking neckbeards. And the fact you even make that comparison and think it's a valid one, says more about you then anything else you've posted....

Safe Travels.

Of course it's not an equivalent exchange ^^ (at least to most) It serves only to simply refute the point that sharing is inherently fair. It's not and as I said, it can be but simply sharing to share is not fair :c If you would prefer a trail, I can do that too ^^

Suppose you and I are partners. We perform together. Our entire act is collaborative. We are both of equivalent appeal with more or less the same number of fans. How should the proceeds of our performances be split?

Suppose we tire of performing and enter the field of widget manufacture. We open a business together and both are employed by it. I manage to produce 3 widgets per day while you produce 5. How should the proceeds from widget sales be split.

Now suppose you don't like me anymore, but my love for you remains steadfast and I open a new branch office in attempt to mend our relationship, where I manage to produce one additional widget per day. How should the proceeds from widget sales be split?

Now suppose Raev opens a widget shop. His widgets are very well designed and reliable. He produces 3, but they stale and boring and nobody wants to by them. How should the proceeds of widget sales be split?

Our relationship continues to deteriorate despite my best efforts and you leave me for another cattle. Our business is torn like my heart, but we all continue in the widget industry. Our production and sales remain unchanged. How should the proceeds of widget sales be split?

Now suppose Trollolololol enters the widget industry. His widgets are by all standards ordinary, but he works 21 hours everyday producing and selling widgets. He produces 28 widgets, saturating the market and sells them all before we are able to finish ours. How should the proceeds from the sale of widgets be split?

[Whirled]

ITT: nerds argue over not sharing a game made in 1999.

[maskedmelonpai]

The biggest problem this server has is people like you intentionally distorting the picture into an R/K type imbalance. The vast majority of casual players would be fine with a competitive system that didn't revolve around poopsocking, cheating, etc. The problem with EQ is that the mechanics are just straight up terrible for direct same-zone player competition (see Troll's post).

No, most casuals are perfectly happy playing the game casually like me. And no, the hardcore/casual schism is not an r/k thing. That not the analogy I was going for. Cattle are generally speaking docile, peaceful, which is what I like about EQ and why I don't like most modern games, they too frenzied.

[prc018100]

I think the issue really involves two things:

1. Too many people in the same sandbox with limited content

Two options for this: First, you could add a 2nd or 3rd server with one-way transfers available would help solve this by allowing more casual guilds to move around. Yes, I still think one or two guilds would still get the majority of content. However, it would be more and more difficult to people to monopolize content with less people. Second (which i think is a worse solution), is the idea of automated quakes or just flat out increase respawn rates dramatically on bosses. This would obviously flood the market even more with items, but give everyone a better chance of getting to see content.

2. Too many people that spend an unhealthy amount of time on this game.

Unfortunately, there really isn't a good solution to this. Even if you locked accounts out after 20 hours in a week or something, people would just make multiple accounts etc. and find a way around it. This could be something cool done to an additional server though.

Another thought. I've never heard of anyone get banned for cheating in the end-game raid content. Rather than keep suspending guilds for the same actions over and over. Why don't they ban these accounts of the repeat offenders? You'd probably be doing them a favor by getting them a break from their addiction anyway.

[Pokesan]

No, most casuals are perfectly happy playing the game casually like me. And no, the hardcore/casual schism is not an r/k thing. That not the analogy I was going for. Cattle are generally speaking docile, peaceful, which is what I like about EQ and why I don't like most modern games, they too frenzied.

who made you president of the casuals??

another self-appointed tinpot dictator like "Mayor" Nemce (believe me, that vote was rigged BIG TIME)

[Ravager]

Of course it's not an equivalent exchange ^^ (at least to most) It serves only to simply refute the point that sharing is inherently fair. It's not and as I said, it can be but simply sharing to share is not fair :c If you would prefer a trail, I can do that too ^^

Suppose you and I are partners. We perform together. Our entire act is collaborative. We are both of equivalent appeal with more or less the same number of fans. How should the proceeds of our performances be split?

Suppose we tire of performing and enter the field of widget manufacture. We open a business together and both are employed by it. I manage to produce 3 widgets per day while you produce 5. How should the proceeds from widget sales be split.

Now suppose you don't like me anymore, but my love for you remains steadfast and I open a new branch office in attempt to mend our relationship, where I manage to produce one additional widget per day. How should the proceeds from widget sales be split?

Now suppose Raev opens a widget shop. His widgets are very well designed and reliable. He produces 3, but they stale and boring and nobody wants to by them. How should the proceeds of widget sales be split?

Our relationship continues to deteriorate despite my best efforts and you leave me for another cattle. Our business is torn like my heart, but we all continue in the widget industry. Our production and sales remain unchanged. How should the proceeds of widget sales be split?

Now suppose Trollolololol enters the widget industry. His widgets are by all standards ordinary, but he works 21 hours everyday producing and selling widgets. He produces 28 widgets, saturating the market and sells them all before we are able to finish ours. How should the proceeds from the sale of widgets be split?
tl;dr Find a better analogy.

[maskedmelonpai]

who made you president of the casuals??

another self-appointed tinpot dictator like "Mayor" Nemce (believe me, that vote was rigged BIG TIME)

I am not a president, just an Ambassador. I speak for those who do not. I lend my voice to those who have not. I extend my care on behalf of those who care not.

I am super casual and have casually experienced all this wonderland has to offer, one little bite at a time. I've had casual encounters with dragons and gods and orcs and dead all alike. I am eminently qualified.

[FatMice]

TL;DR

blob:http://imgur.com/d5bb43bb-0355-4bc5-9fee-839bc3d9f7cc

[FatMice]

http://imgur.com/npMMHJg

Why Gifs don't work with Imgur!?!

[Muggens]

I am not a president, just an Ambassador. I speak for those who do not. I lend my voice to those who have not. I extend my care on behalf of those who care not.

I am super casual and have casually experienced all this wonderland has to offer, one little bite at a time. I've had casual encounters with dragons and gods and orcs and dead all alike. I am eminently qualified.

You're a good ambassador for casuals :) Btw that avatar again is great. Thighs lukin good

[Danth]

I am not a president, just an Ambassador. I speak for those who do not. I lend my voice to those who have not. I extend my care on behalf of those who care not.

Aren't you the guy who said he's been on dozens of Temple Veeshan raids with absolutely nothing to show for it? Ah yes, here's the comment:
(for example I have no tov loot despite killing dozens of dragons)

That seems less like an ambassador and more like a serf sucking up to his lord out of fear of losing what few table scraps he's been given.

Danth

[Papa]

melon is in A/A

[Ella`Ella]

Aren't you the guy who said he's been on dozens of Temple Veeshan raids with absolutely nothing to show for it? Ah yes, here's the comment:


That seems less like an ambassador and more like a serf sucking up to his lord out of fear of losing what few table scraps he's been given.

Danth

Any good lawyer would get this argument overruled.

Melon simply states that regardless of having killed "dozens of dragons", which could have been from any dragon bearing zone, does not have ToV loot. There is no mention as to the exclusivity of their dragons to ToV.

OVERRULED.

[maskedmelonpai]

Aren't you the guy who said he's been on dozens of Temple Veeshan raids with absolutely nothing to show for it? Ah yes, here's the comment:


That seems less like an ambassador and more like a serf sucking up to his lord out of fear of losing what few table scraps he's been given.

Danth

That's a silly assertion ^^ I don't play for pixels. I play for fun. And fun I have, experiencing content. That the whole point ^^ if pixels were important though I could still get them with the same play time. I'd just spend more time killing dragons and less time doing other fun things. I like variety. And having fun ^^

You can too, but you don't want to.

[kotton05]

http://imgur.com/npMMHJg

Why Gifs don't work with Imgur!?!

Aww you're so adorable long long ago someone ruined all video links

[Pokesan]

melon is in A/A

is he really?

feeling pretty betrayed right now

[Danth]

That's a silly assertion ^^ I don't play for pixels. I play for fun. And fun I have, experiencing content.

You won't find many people in the game less interested in pixels than me--I haven't upgraded my own character in more than a year. Good enough is good enough, and upgrades lose their luster when I can already do the jobs I want to do. I know exactly what you mean about playing the game for its own sake. That being said, I'd feel robbed if I showed up to "dozens" of raids to progression content and was left with nothing to show for it. There's playing for pixels....then there's at least giving somebody a token of appreciation for his useful effort. That's why your comment stuck out to me. I think you deserve more than a pat on the back while the lords you serve deck themselves out in their virtual riches.

Danth

[maskedmelonpai]

You won't find many people in the game less interested in pixels than me--I haven't upgraded my own character in more than a year. Good enough is good enough, and upgrades lose their luster when I can already do the jobs I want to do. I know exactly what you mean about playing the game for its own sake. That being said, I'd feel robbed if I showed up to "dozens" of raids to progression content and was left with nothing to show for it. There's playing for pixels....then there's at least giving somebody a token of appreciation for his useful effort. That's why your comment stuck out to me. I think you deserve more than a pat on the back while the lords you serve deck themselves out in their virtual riches.

Danth

Well, my guild not loot council and I don't know many here that are tbh, so they don't assign loot. Have to spend dkp or win rolls to get loot, which I think is pretty fair. I have dkp, so I can get loot, just not always present when something I want or can use drops and when something does, I don't usually want it all that much and so either don't bid on it or bid low. I am indecisive and stingy ^^

[khanable]

http://imgur.com/npMMHJg

Why Gifs don't work with Imgur!?!

need the hacks dawg

http://i.imgur.com/npMMHJg.jpg

[maskedmelonpai]

melon is in A/A

you are sassy papa. I see a thriving friendship between us.

[FatMice]

need the hacks dawg

http://i.imgur.com/npMMHJg.jpg

It's a great gif for this thread, but it lost it's allure with my failings in posting.

How did you do that?

[khanable]

It's a great gif for this thread, but it lost it's allure with my failings in posting.

How did you do that?

just put .jpg at the end of the url

http://i.imgur.com/cBHAD7P.jpg

[maskedmelonpai]

It's a great gif for this thread, but it lost it's allure with my failings in posting.

How did you do that?

When you upload to imgur, float you cursor over the upper right then click the drop down next to get links and copy the forums/by code one^^

There was a super fantastic tutorial somewhere around here on this, but looks like it got deleted ^^;

[JurisDictum]

Also, how are pvp minded games not competitive? Our server may not be pvp per se, but thats how things work.

That's what were debating.... I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but "the way things work" is entirely optional to the server staff.

For example, why is it okay to single pull dragons to the zone in? That's the key thing to me that makes p99 nothing like classic EQ. Add in the ridicules raid "racing" rules and you're left with almost no one who thinks things are run well...except for the leadership of A/A. Not the masses that make killing those dragons possible mind you...just (some of) the leaders.

At least there was some fun when A/A was racing via batphone to kill the dragon first...now there isn't even that part.

And again, virtually no one has a lot of fun racing. It's not even 1%. Just because a few weridos do, doesn't make it a good solution.

I've been playing Counter-stike. And its fun even if you don't win a lot of the times. That's because it is a competitive game -- built for competition. If I were to suggest to my friends we all que together to kill bots -- no one would be interested. It's not that kind of game.

You don't even have to get into this hardcore vs casual thing. It's about whats fun. The vast majority of people agree the current ruleset is not fun. It would be nice if the staff would fix that. But it's their decision.

All I can do is not play until they do...which will probably be forever.

[bigjerry]

That's what were debating.... I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but "the way things work" is entirely optional to the server staff.

For example, why is it okay to single pull dragons to the zone in? That's the key thing to me that makes p99 nothing like classic EQ. Add in the ridicules raid "racing" rules and you're left with almost no one who thinks things are run well...except for the leadership of A/A. Not the masses that make killing those dragons possible mind you...just (some of) the leaders.

At least there was some fun when A/A was racing via batphone to kill the dragon first...now there isn't even that part.

And again, virtually no one has a lot of fun racing. It's not even 1%. Just because a few weridos do, doesn't make it a good solution.

I've been playing Counter-stike. And its fun even if you don't win a lot of the times. That's because it is a competitive game -- built for competition. If I were to suggest to my friends we all que together to kill bots -- no one would be interested. It's not that kind of game.

You don't even have to get into this hardcore vs casual thing. It's about whats fun. The vast majority of people agree the current ruleset is not fun. It would be nice if the staff would fix that. But it's their decision.

All I can do is not play until they do...which will probably be forever.

nice post I didn't read it

can someone tell me what A/A stands for?

[Daldaen]

nice post I didn't read it

can someone tell me what A/A stands for?

Alcoholics Anonymous.

[FatMice]

http://imgur.com/tloc18Z.jpg

[radda]

2. Too many people that spend an unhealthy amount of time on this game.

Unfortunately, there really isn't a good solution to this. Even if you locked accounts out after 20 hours in a week or something, people would just make multiple accounts etc. and find a way around it. This could be something cool done to an additional server though.


This is the most moronic thing I've read here in awhile.

[maskedmelonpai]

This is the most moronic thing I've read here in awhile.

It's a start. I think we should rotate server access. Liek there are, um 168 hours in a week and that is roughly 1/10 of the server population, so, we could break the week up into 1680 slots of 6 minutes each that people could register for. There'd be no shenanigans like slot sharing permitted. It'd be a use it or lose it sorts thing. That way we could ensure everyone had equal access to pixels and nobody was wasting more of their lives on this thing than we could ourselves. We also wouldn't have to deal with other people. No wait lists, no over level farmers, no power levelers, no trains or ksers ^^

[Nexii]

Endgame variances/spawn timers were never designed with 500 raiders in mind. Most classic servers had about 100 raiders at most...probably half of that hardcores. Sony recognized this reality later when it came to epics, they had to reduce timers on many as more players approached endgame.

So blue has around 5-10x the raiders that a typical classic server would have had. Due to this abundance, every top end raid target is engaged/killed instantly. I just don't agree with Sirken's blaming the players for socking or racing raid bosses. What alternative is there when GM-enforced FTE rules are a thing? Sony administered more subjectively in classic (usually first in force, or forced sharing, not on FTE or DPS until much later). Which worked quite well when bosses weren't as contested.

I feel like P99 staff should have some sort of player liaison position. Maybe that's asking for a lot to care. I do enjoy raiding here, just the same, but it could be a lot better.

[Ravager]

Endgame variances/spawn timers were never designed with 500 raiders in mind. Most classic servers had about 100 raiders at most...probably half of that hardcores. Sony recognized this reality later when it came to epics, they had to reduce timers on many as more players approached endgame.

So blue has around 5-10x the raiders that a typical classic server would have had. Due to this abundance, every top end raid target is engaged/killed instantly. I just don't agree with Sirken's blaming the players for socking or racing raid bosses. What alternative is there when GM-enforced FTE rules are a thing? Sony administered more subjectively in classic (usually first in force, or forced sharing, not on FTE or DPS until much later). Which worked quite well when bosses weren't as contested.

I feel like P99 staff should have some sort of player liaison position. Maybe that's asking for a lot to care. I do enjoy raiding here, just the same, but it could be a lot better.
Good post. Will be ignored by Sirken.

[Mistle]

I feel like P99 staff should have some sort of player liaison position.

I think the P99 staff should have to play under the rules they unilaterally set up.

Watch how fast this shit changes the first day Sirken sits at a door for a few hours.

[Detoxx]

That's what were debating.... I know this is difficult for some people to understand, but "the way things work" is entirely optional to the server staff.

For example, why is it okay to single pull dragons to the zone in? That's the key thing to me that makes p99 nothing like classic EQ. Add in the ridicules raid "racing" rules and you're left with almost no one who thinks things are run well...except for the leadership of A/A. Not the masses that make killing those dragons possible mind you...just (some of) the leaders.

At least there was some fun when A/A was racing via batphone to kill the dragon first...now there isn't even that part.

And again, virtually no one has a lot of fun racing. It's not even 1%. Just because a few weridos do, doesn't make it a good solution.

I've been playing Counter-stike. And its fun even if you don't win a lot of the times. That's because it is a competitive game -- built for competition. If I were to suggest to my friends we all que together to kill bots -- no one would be interested. It's not that kind of game.

You don't even have to get into this hardcore vs casual thing. It's about whats fun. The vast majority of people agree the current ruleset is not fun. It would be nice if the staff would fix that. But it's their decision.

All I can do is not play until they do...which will probably be forever.

Hit me up on CS, Blooddrunk

[Nexii]

I think the P99 staff should have to play under the rules they unilaterally set up.

Watch how fast this shit changes the first day Sirken sits at a door for a few hours.

The rules were unliteral? I was under the impression that players had some input. Though they pre-date my time here, it'd be interesting to know the history.

[Swish]

All I see here is angry nerds and staff bashing - they're patient but I think there's limits before that hammer is dropping on a few people.

If the players helped set the rules and now complain about them, while also asking for more rules... I don't think you can pin the current situation on the staff.

Also, I'm going to say it... there's a P99 server where most of the shit everyone is complaining about doesn't apply. And before you type "lol dead server" it actually solves 90% of the problems everyone seems to have on blue in terms of raiding.

[Papa]

it solves many problems but also introduces others that people clearly don't want (PvP)

PvE servers had a much higher % of the EQ population back in the day and the same is true on P99

[Ravager]

Only weirdos want PvP and only degenerates want competitive PvE. Cleanse the servers of both.

[bktroost]

who made you president of the casuals??

another self-appointed tinpot dictator like "Mayor" Nemce (believe me, that vote was rigged BIG TIME)

Ah but Pokesan you are one of my favorite p99 trolls.

[entruil]

Only weirdos want PvP and only degenerates want competitive PvE. Cleanse the servers of both.

I don't get all the hate of PvP on these boards... coin-loot, LnS, add those to level range and its about as blue as it gets, unless they are competing for pve only,which doesn't meld and creates the lycanthrope atmosphere because not enough peasants with pitchforks and the occasional fungi from the fun guy who didn't pull his ring quick enough...

[entruil]

whoops didnt realize it was this thread...

sorry... I actually logged into blue when I read original quoted post, got a helm upgrade immediately... it also inspired me

[Supreme]

I think this server needs a split...

[bigjerry]

I think this server needs a split...

LOL its this guy

[Zekayy]

No but moving A/A and their competitive nature to Red makes every ounce of sense in the world. Many A/A members want to return to the days of instant engages and pulling with batphones ringing as they did in years past. One of the biggest complaints from the competitive side is the lack of excitement and chance to prove yourself with skill.

Can you imagine trying to do Vulak or Vyemm with such speed that your opponent cannot even form their raid as the other guild controls an enemy train and attempts to battle you mid fight? I'm sure the competition of Red would being a whole new element of fun to the playstyle that A/A long for.

I've even heard many members and leaders in the hardcore scene say that if mass transfer were an option they would do it.

This happened back in the train war days of vp

[schnickusaurus]

rofl :) so much trouble just because of high end pixel greed :p

Imo after looping 1st new blue server, continue to luclin!! Let the casuals experience ToV ffs, Sirken should seriously look for staff who are willing to progress to luclin after next time line . Its their only way of letting most of server experience ToV ?

[entruil]

rofl :) so much trouble just because of high end pixel greed :p

Imo after looping 1st new blue server, continue to luclin!! Let the casuals experience ToV ffs, Sirken should seriously look for staff who are willing to progress to luclin after next time line . Its their only way of letting most of server experience ToV ?

[Sunwell's Clutch] derivative of Developer's Dilemma... or Honor of Sound Belief!

I pick number 2.

[Swish]

rofl :) so much trouble just because of high end pixel greed :p

Imo after looping 1st new blue server, continue to luclin!! Let the casuals experience ToV ffs, Sirken should seriously look for staff who are willing to progress to luclin after next time line . Its their only way of letting most of server experience ToV ?

Next server is discord or pvp teams, hopefully.

[Zekayy]

After reading 20+ pages of this thread I got cancer, so thanks for that chest.

[schnickusaurus]

rofl :) so much trouble just because of high end pixel greed :p

Imo after looping 1st new blue server, continue to luclin!! Let the casuals experience ToV ffs, Sirken should seriously look for staff who are willing to progress to luclin after next time line . Its their only way of letting most of server experience ToV ?

Btw the 'ffs' was not to you Sirken it was to all of server pop including Dev team etc ie incl all :)

[kotton05]

This happened back in the train war days of vp

Yes zekay and I'm waiting for it to happen again!!!

I'd be so happy.

[saujee]

Git Good or Die Tryin'

[Zekayy]

Yes zekay and I'm waiting for it to happen again!!!

I'd be so happy.


it would make p99 great again

[JurisDictum]

rofl :) so much trouble just because of high end pixel greed :p

Imo after looping 1st new blue server, continue to luclin!! Let the casuals experience ToV ffs, Sirken should seriously look for staff who are willing to progress to luclin after next time line . Its their only way of letting most of server experience ToV ?

Its really not a problem with greed. The problem is the contest is wall staring and its a retarded way to spend your time. It almost certainly damages your brain doing that more then once in awhile...It's not even a joke.

There's always going to be people that do what it takes to be the best on the server. There always has been. There are always hardcores and casuals. I agree with that part of Sirkins' opinion.

But it ruins the raid scene when everything is a staring contest. Apparently, because some people that don't even raid think its funny to make people stare at walls. The hope is that they will quit. But its been like what? 8 years of these people not quitting?

There's a couple of solutions that would make this all a lot better:

A) 1 quake a week -- still a single pull race between hardcore guilds, but much more fun.

B) Have dragons work like rare spawns and just make guilds farm ToV. At least they would be playing the game instead of staring at walls.

C) Rotation.

D) Do not allow single pulls. If multiple dragons are in window around the same time (like almost always), guilds would have to hold the spawns in force to get a chance to kill it when it spawned. Otherwise they would have to clear to it.

All of these options would be a lot more like classic EQ imo.

[JurisDictum]

And we should just get rid of all this lawyering. Unless someone literally drags a dragon into another raid force and flops it on them -- its the other raids responsibility to stay out of the way.

If people weren't constantly single pulling dragons -- a lot of this would go away.

[Bazia]

erase red and launch casual blue server also wipe current blue and relaunch "hardcore" blue

every1 wins

[Ravager]

erase red and launch casual blue server also wipe current blue and relaunch &quot;hardcore&quot; blue

every1 wins

Hardcore Blue would have the population of Red, because that is the number of people that want to play that way.

[LostCause]

merge red with blue delete red forever move to phinny

[Maner]

And we should just get rid of all this lawyering. Unless someone literally drags a dragon into another raid force and flops it on them -- its the other raids responsibility to stay out of the way.

If people weren't constantly single pulling dragons -- a lot of this would go away.

None of the current suspensions have been due to training....

[RedXIII]

Solution: Leave the way it is. And get the fuck out of here if you dont like it.

There is no other competitive server if you want to compete. But there are SEVERAL others with rotation and welfare instanced pixels...

[Pokesan]

Solution: Leave the way it is. And get the fuck out of here if you dont like it.

There is no other competitive server if you want to compete. But there are SEVERAL others with rotation and welfare instanced pixels...


solution: you suck my dick

bout as helpful as your idea plus I get to cum in your mouth

[Quinn]

solution: you suck my dick

bout as helpful as your idea plus I get to cum in your mouth

Chauvinistic man-child.....who the fuck says "and I get to cum in your mouth" other than a child, trying to be an adult, yet has never experienced what it's actually like to "cum in someone's mouth." Grow up poke, you can do better.

[Swish]

Merge blue into red, force people to pvp... then use the blue server for the discord server.

Best idea yet. You're welcome.

[Pokesan]

Chauvinistic man-child.....who the fuck says "and I get to cum in your mouth" other than a child, trying to be an adult, yet has never experienced what it's actually like to "cum in someone's mouth." Grow up poke, you can do better.

this chardok cuck is mad i cummed in his mouth

[Lazie]

Merge blue into red, force people to pvp... then use the blue server for the discord server.

Best idea yet. You're welcome.

Most idiotic idea for sure.

[bigjerry]

Chauvinistic man-child.....who the fuck says "and I get to cum in your mouth" other than a child, trying to be an adult, yet has never experienced what it's actually like to "cum in someone's mouth." Grow up poke, you can do better.

LOL this post was the cumshot, him in your mouth