The Common Man's NToV Raid Rules Thread

[Gimp]

Anytime TMO or Asgard yells about trains or conceding or lawyering I just imagine they are some frothing mad SEC superfan like from the Paul Finebaum show.

BDA ARE A BUNCH OF CHEATERS, DETOXX IS THE BEST GUILDLEADER THERE IS. ROLL DAMN TIDE!!!11!!

Don't you dare compare those idiots to the magnificent Bama fanbase

[Rararboker]

Everyone knows? We've been using it since release without issue. Only had problems once people tried pulling raid mobs across the whole zone.

[jcr4990]

Sounds like a terrible camp spot then if your whole raid force can't fit into the safe spot.

Everyone knows Detoxx is claiming that spot just so he can cry wolf when he gets "trained" by unaggroed mobs so he can lawyerquest a concession.

https://media.giphy.com/media/fdGkCOiM0oOqI/giphy.gif

[falkun]

Again, Taken pulled Ikatair out of NToV. BDA happens to get a couple FTEs (but continues to let him path back to his room), and it's our fault he was a) initially trained out of NToV and b) that Elament left his guild's camp, got a brand new FTE, and trained his own guild. Please tell me how BDA getting two split second FTEs changed the fate of Ikatair. The same events would have happened if BDA hadn't been in the zone.

[JboxCSU]

Again, Taken pulled Ikatair out of NToV. BDA happens to get a couple FTEs (but continues to let him path back to his room), and it's our fault he was a) initially trained out of NToV and b) that Elament left his guild's camp, got a brand new FTE, and trained his own guild. Please tell me how BDA getting two split second FTEs changed the fate of Ikatair. The same events would have happened if BDA hadn't been in the zone.

Ahhhhh I thought BDA had initial aggro on Iki.

If true, the real culprit is...

Taken!

F Taken!!

[falkun]

[Sun Oct 11 20:07:58 2015] Ikatiar the Venom engages Cashrip! <--- Who?
[Sun Oct 11 20:08:24 2015] Ikatiar the Venom engages Relbaic!
[Sun Oct 11 20:08:55 2015] Ikatiar the Venom engages Chest!
[Sun Oct 11 20:09:27 2015] Ikatiar the Venom engages Elament! <-- Idiot TMO mage who wiped TMO's raid
Cashrip is taken iirc.

[falkun]

Taken trains Forgard. Down with AssForTaken.

[Maner]

Again, Taken pulled Ikatair out of NToV. BDA happens to get a couple FTEs (but continues to let him path back to his room), and it's our fault he was a) initially trained out of NToV and b) that Elament left his guild's camp, got a brand new FTE, and trained his own guild. Please tell me how BDA getting two split second FTEs changed the fate of Ikatair. The same events would have happened if BDA hadn't been in the zone.

as stated by your own guild. BDA got their FTEs while trying to split iki and the train. Meaning they took responsibility of the train by attempting to pull out of it. How can you sit there and say it was takens train even though your pullers were running it around trying to split out iki as well?

[Maner]

Sounds like a terrible camp spot then if your whole raid force can't fit into the safe spot.

Everyone knows Detoxx is claiming that spot just so he can cry wolf when he gets "trained" by unaggroed mobs so he can lawyerquest a concession.

150 people were past that door and were wiped by your train. It wasn't just forsaken as rampage and asgard were also killed by your pull.

[Man0warr]

as stated by your own guild. BDA got their FTEs while trying to split iki and the train. Meaning they took responsibility of the train by attempting to pull out of it. How can you sit there and say it was takens train even though your pullers were running it around trying to split out iki as well?

Remove BDA from the equation, the same thing would have happened.

150 people were past that door and were wiped by your train. It wasn't just forsaken as rampage and asgard were also killed by your pull.

You mean your mage's pull? FTE is all that matters, and your mage had it.

[JboxCSU]

as stated by your own guild. BDA got their FTEs while trying to split iki and the train. Meaning they took responsibility of the train by attempting to pull out of it. How can you sit there and say it was takens train even though your pullers were running it around trying to split out iki as well?

Still Takens train IMO.

Don't pull targets across the zone.

[falkun]

as stated by your own guild. BDA got their FTEs while trying to split iki and the train. Meaning they took responsibility of the train by attempting to pull out of it. How can you sit there and say it was takens train even though your pullers were running it around trying to split out iki as well?

So an unaggroed train that BDA intercepts is now our responsibility? By that VERY SAME LOGIC, the train no longer belonged to BDA and ownership was transferred to Elaments of Forgard the moment he FTE'd. How can you sit there and say it was BDA's train even though your puller was running it back in to your camp as well?

[jcr4990]

as stated by your own guild. BDA got their FTEs while trying to split iki and the train. Meaning they took responsibility of the train by attempting to pull out of it. How can you sit there and say it was takens train even though your pullers were running it around trying to split out iki as well?

If Taken initially pulled it and BDA just tried to split Iki as he was pathing back how in the shit could it possibly be blamed on BDA? Like others have said if BDA wasn't even in the zone the same result would have happened. You desperately want to peg this on BDA but you're being ridiculous. Lot's of accusations against Chest for not "manning up" and admitting when his guild is at fault (Even when they aren't) yet nobody wants to take the blame for being out of camp resulting in the aggroing the mob to begin with.

Not a real bright fella are ya?

[Oleris]

stopped reading after page 15.

[Maner]

Remove BDA from the equation, the same thing would have happened.



You mean your mage's pull? FTE is all that matters, and your mage had it.

chest aggroing iki to try and pull him out of the train constitutes a pull. That train pathing back and agroing people and sending out a new FTE message is not a pull and does not somehow give responsibility for that train to elament. Look up the raiding rules yourself, its quite clear about what constitutes a train I believe.

Taken has already apologized for the training, so remove BDA from the equation and there wouldn't even be a problem. Add BDA and their constant deflection as opposed to just being adults and you have a RNF post.

[falkun]

chest aggroing iki to try and pull him out of the train constitutes a pull. That train pathing back and agroing people and sending out a new FTE message is not a pull and does not somehow give responsibility for that train to elament. Look up the raiding rules yourself, its quite clear about what constitutes a train I believe.

Taken has already apologized for the training, so remove BDA from the equation and there wouldn't even be a problem. Add BDA and their constant deflection as opposed to just being adults and you have a RNF post.

You must be new to the raid scene, FTE is FTE regardless if its obtained by a monk, an SK, a bard, or, in this case, a mage. It was a pull because your mage brought a mob he FTE'd back to your camp. It is not BDA's responsibility to make sure your FTE's and engages do not contain adds and that the mob arrives in camp when your raid is ready to engage. Blame your pullers.

[Maner]

If Taken initially pulled it and BDA just tried to split Iki as he was pathing back how in the shit could it possibly be blamed on BDA? Like others have said if BDA wasn't even in the zone the same result would have happened. You desperately want to peg this on BDA but you're being ridiculous. Lot's of accusations against Chest for not "manning up" and admitting when his guild is at fault (Even when they aren't) yet nobody wants to take the blame for being out of camp resulting in the aggroing the mob to begin with.

Not a real bright fella are ya?

Taken already manned up and apologized for training and said they wouldn't pull ntov to wtov. trying to split the boss out of a train constitutes a pull. If BDA had let the train reset then you are right, it wouldn't have been their problem. However instead of letting it reset they attempted to split the named out making it the 2nd pull, and thus taking responsibility for Taken's train.

No one was out of camp, that is your fearless leader spinning shit so he doesn't have to admit to making a stupid call. When people aren't training mobs all over TOV you can move around the stairs and even outside of the door without a problem. Neither BDA or Taken gave warning of what they were doing ahead of time or what the status of their trains was. So how do you expect people behind a closed door, that doesn't stop agro anyway, to know that a train is currently pathing back?

[Maner]

You must be new to the raid scene, FTE is FTE regardless if its obtained by a monk, an SK, a bard, or, in this case, a mage. It was a pull because your mage brought a mob he FTE'd back to your camp. It is not BDA's responsibility to make sure your FTE's and engages do not contain adds and that the mob arrives in camp when your raid is ready to engage. Blame your pullers.

LOL really? So I could say pull vindi past your raid in kael, FD and then when Vindi agros your raid and sends out a new FTE its now your fault? Good to finally understand the uneducated rules BDA lives by I guess. Have fun raiding now that your entire guild seems to think its ok to train a raid as long as you can drop threat before they get proximity agro....

[JboxCSU]

Think of it this way -
Scenario 1 - Guild A pulls a mobs all the way the fuck across a zone. My thought is they own that train as the mob(s) return to their spawn point.

Scenario 2 - Guild A pulls mob halfway across the zone, Guild B tags it and drops it off all the way across the zone. In this case, Guild B the mob from where they tagged the mob to the zone line, and Guild A owns it from their loss of aggro to the mobs spawn.

Scenario 3 - Guild A pulls a mob all the way across the zone, drops aggro and the mob starts walking back. Guild B attempts to split, and drags the mobs slightly off course of their return path, and drops aggro. In this case, Guild B owns the train from the mobs patching back to where they snagged aggro from the mobs. Guild A takes the train back when the mobs start walking back on their original path.

This situation is Scenario 3. That fucking train was walking down that path whether or not BDA attempted the split or not.

My opinion it's Takens train.

[Nibblewitz]

LOL really? So I could say pull vindi past your raid in kael, FD and then when Vindi agros your raid and sends out a new FTE its now your fault? Good to finally understand the uneducated rules BDA lives by I guess. Have fun raiding now that your entire guild seems to think its ok to train a raid as long as you can drop threat before they get proximity agro....

You could try, but our members get DKP for not standing in traffic.

[falkun]

Your raid location is not our problem when we did not train over you. By your logic, you expect us to train Ikatair BACK to his room, and drop aggro there. NO ONE does this. The best ANYONE does is let a mob reset. Well guess what BDA was doing? Letting a mob reset. It is not BDA's fault that YOUR raid was in the way of a mob resetting. Also, if Elament had stayed in the cubby, he would not have aggroed Ikatair. It is not BDA's fault YOUR PULLER aggroed Ikatair and brought him to camp when your raid was ill prepared to engage him.

[Maner]

Think of it this way -
Scenario 1 - Guild A pulls a mobs all the way the fuck across a zone. My thought is they own that train as the mob(s) return to their spawn point.

Scenario 2 - Guild A pulls mob halfway across the zone, Guild B tags it and drops it off all the way across the zone. In this case, Guild B the mob from where they tagged the mob to the zone line, and Guild A owns it from their loss of aggro to the mobs spawn.

Scenario 3 - Guild A pulls a mob all the way across the zone, drops aggro and the mob starts walking back. Guild B attempts to split, and drags the mobs slightly off course of their return path, and drops aggro. In this case, Guild B owns the train from the mobs patching back to where they snagged aggro from the mobs. Guild A takes the train back when the mobs start walking back on their original path.

This situation is Scenario 3. That fucking train was walking down that path whether or not BDA attempted the split or not.

My opinion it's Takens train.

your opinion would be correct if BDA hadn't attempted to peel from takens pull, since BDA has admitted they wanted to split out iki, they knowingly took responsibility for the train. You cant say it would have been takens fault if BDA hadn't touched it so its takens fault after BDA touched it....

[Maner]

Your raid location is not our problem when we did not train over you. By your logic, you expect us to train Ikatair BACK to his room, and drop aggro there. NO ONE does this. The best ANYONE does is let a mob reset. Well guess what BDA was doing? Letting a mob reset. It is not BDA's fault that YOUR raid was in the way of a mob resetting. Also, if Elament had stayed in the cubby, he would not have aggroed Ikatair. It is not BDA's fault YOUR PULLER aggroed Ikatair and brought him to camp when your raid was ill prepared to engage him.

so mages are pullers now?

[falkun]

How can you say its BDA's fault after Taken touched it and also not conclude its Forgard's fault after BDA touched it?

[falkun]

so mages are pullers now?
Its EQ, anyone's a puller that gets FTE.

[JboxCSU]

your opinion would be correct if BDA hadn't attempted to peel from takens pull, since BDA has admitted they wanted to split out iki, they knowingly took responsibility for the train. You cant say it would have been takens fault if BDA hadn't touched it so its takens fault after BDA touched it....

If BDA tried to split, they own tje train from where they took aggro to where they dropped it.

Again, If BDA didn't attempt to split, all those mobs were going to take that path anyways.

[falkun]

And mages make fantastic pullers. TMO used them to great effect when the rules dictated no PC could be on 1.5 to pull nobles. Send a mage pet up to noble and there's not a PC on the island!

[jcr4990]

So lemme get this straight. Taken pulls mob across zone. BDA tries to pull as its pathing back and fails. Forsaken pulls unintentionally as its pathing back and wipes. God damn BDA's fault again!

Makes a lot of sense dude. You totally aren't making yourself look like a fool. Please keep posting.

https://media.giphy.com/media/iDJuQR0UmiqOI/giphy.gif

[Zampini]

https://media.giphy.com/media/WtBDAH97eXAmQ/giphy.gif

[Gimp]

so mages are pullers now?

I used to FTE in VP on a chanter.

So yes, mages are pullers.

[bktroost]

so mages are pullers now?

Absolutely, DA idol, bind, gate potion, self invis, mages make very good pullers.

[Man0warr]

Divinity uses a mage puller for WToV all the time, and he's pretty successful.

[Man0warr]

LOL really? So I could say pull vindi past your raid in kael, FD and then when Vindi agros your raid and sends out a new FTE its now your fault? Good to finally understand the uneducated rules BDA lives by I guess. Have fun raiding now that your entire guild seems to think its ok to train a raid as long as you can drop threat before they get proximity agro....

No, because where we engage Vindi in Kael it's impossible for him to aggro our raid unless you did it intentionally.

This is why sitting a raid in the middle of fucking NToV entrance is not a good camp spot. You just open yourself up to get trained if anyone is attempting Eashen (or Ikitar if you have a dumb mage not in the cubby).

Like was said, Detoxx does it just to be a pest for other guilds trying to attempt raid targets so he can call foul. He demands concede at the drop of a hat.

[Gimp]

No, because where we engage Vindi in Kael it's impossible for him to aggro our raid unless you did it intentionally.

This is why sitting a raid in the middle of fucking NToV entrance is not a good camp spot. You just open yourself up to get trained if anyone is attempting Eashen (or Ikitar if you have a dumb mage not in the cubby).

Like was said, Detoxx does it just to be a pest for other guilds trying to attempt raid targets so he can call foul. He demands concede at the drop of a hat.

He's been doing this for years.

[Sweettouch]

Maker is just upset Detoxx and his slimy ways failed.as usual,so he is getting his dkp for blaming a guild who isn't at fault. Sound familiar?

[Sweettouch]

Maner even dang phone

[Alenon]

Whatever happened to just fighting apart as his spot? I know on live we coh'd right in front of him. Just had to kill the green con mini's, took me a lot of deaths to find the spot but skips everything and no trains. Easy peasy

[Man0warr]

Because on Live you had no competition waiting behind you to engage trash mobs so they can leapfrog right over and grab the boss.

That's why training shit around exists on this server.

[Llodd]

Don't worry guys Velious will solve everything.

[Alenon]

Because on Live you had no competition waiting behind you to engage trash mobs so they can leapfrog right over and grab the boss.

That's why training shit around exists on this server.

Oh it was always a race, but aary was never pulled. Fight him in the hall corner so it's just a race to that area, not a shitshow of pulls all over tov

[Alenon]

And since you can cog straight to hatching, you don't have to pull anything, or you shouldnt

[Tuljin]

Don't worry guys Velious will solve everything.

Lol now with Velious out we really see how much 5 years of Kunark, 2 solid years of a Chardok AOE machine, variance, and the proliferation of the number of "raid" guilds has completely fucked this server beyond belief.

The server staff is very short staffed and they do a remarkable job with P99 despite their lack of human resources. I am grateful that this game is free (which is why I play) and that I can log into Norrath with friends and adventure and kill mobs whenever I want.

We can blame a small population of this server which has become the hegemony that has completely fucking ruined the "fun" of this game. 5 years of one expansion plus players with online videogame addiction and running RMT AOE rackets is a recipe for disaster. The top end population of this server has exploded and it has created tons of "raid" guilds with countless AOE powerleveled alts. They all "follow the leader" and the precedent that has been set in order to "raid" and "be a guild member" has gone completely off the tracks and it is an absolute train wreck.

TL:DR this server fucking sucks thanks to a very small percentage of online video game addicts that really have been fucking up this server for years. Very few of us acknowledged this early, most of us came to the server too late to even realize what has happened. I have had many personal interactions with all the "top dog" players on this server and have personally told many of them to go fuck themselves. Once you free yourself from the pixel shackles you will see. Until then have fun jumping through flaming hoops for a bunch of assholes just go get pixels that don't even fucking matter.

[maestrom]

Whatever happened to just fighting apart as his spot? I know on live we coh'd right in front of him. Just had to kill the green con mini's, took me a lot of deaths to find the spot but skips everything and no trains. Easy peasy

What Manowarr said.

On live, where most servers had either a rotation or a "first in force" atmosphere (if not a rule), guilds that had designs on killing a target rarely had to worry about another guild running past them to engage it while they killed trash.

In your scenario on P99, you CoTH your raid to the target and pull the trash or two around the boss. The moment the trash aggros you, another guild will tag the boss and run away with it.

On P99, guilds can't kill trash, they have to train it away, kite it, or just deal with it while they kill the boss.

It got this way because 200 people would sit on target spawns and insta-gib targets. The staff, correctly I think, didn't like this. So they made a rule that you couldn't be past IZ when a target spawns or you'd be DQ'd from engaging the mob. The guild that gets aggro first gets the mob, which seems like a logical idea, but it creates a system where no one wants to kill trash because the second the boss is alone, another guild will tag it.

Personally, I think raid targets should be treated like literally every other static spawn in the game. They're just big camps. You have to have a force there strong enough to kill the target, and as long as you have that force there, no one else can come in and take your mob.

Both take staff intervention to enforce, and switching to FIF would have some growing pains of course.

The difference is, with FIF, the target is claimed in a peaceful train-free IZ, rather than people frapsing trash trains and fighting about who trained who and whether a pull is a train or whatever.

[dafier]

Most of us operate outside the realm of BDA logic though so maybe youre just having trouble conceptualizing the issues? Maybe I could draw you a diagram or a map or something?

For one, you should not put words in others mouths. Second, I highly doubt you can draw anything since you can't even come up with a solution to the ToV pulling.

and, it's you're*

and, you mean visualizing, not conceptualizing. The conception is already out there and even Detoxx, surprisingly understands the conception. Visualizing the solution is the issue.

dictionary.com much bro?

/sigh

[arsenalpow]

Did you just go straight grammar cop while dropping in an "understands the conception" ?

Sigh.

[dafier]

ugh....I am saying that everyone understands the conception. The issue is visualization of the solution.

[arsenalpow]

Concept
Conceptualize

[Ostros]

o i am laffin

[dafier]

:( You are not supposed to help them. geez

[Pokesan]

do you do this shit on purpose dafier

[dafier]

do you do this shit on purpose dafier

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02709/terry-thomas-gent_2709096b.jpg

A true gentlemen never gives way.

[Kekephee]

ugh....I am saying that everyone understands the conception. The issue is visualization of the solution.

You gotta


ACCEN

TUATE THE POSITIVE

[SCB]

All of you guys are fags (not in the cool dudes-blowing-dudes way, but in the actually-shitty way) and none of you are doing the content as it was intended.

You're like grown adults fighting over a game of Putt Putt that you're also rule-lawyering the shit out of. Only you're not grown adults and this is an old-ass game.

Rotations. Sharing. Screw the coth mages and the monks and rush content and be fucking beastmode for once in your pussy neckbeard lives.

God knows you'll never do anything comparable to that level of "bravery" irl.

[SCB]

All of you guys are fags (not in the cool dudes-blowing-dudes way, but in the actually-shitty way) and none of you are doing the content as it was intended.

You're like grown adults fighting over a game of Putt Putt that you're also rule-lawyering the shit out of. Only you're not grown adults and this is an old-ass game.

Rotations. Sharing. Screw the coth mages and the monks and rush content and be fucking beastmode for once in your pussy neckbeard lives.

God knows you'll never do anything comparable to that level of "bravery" irl.


If this server had any balls we'd order Batchalls for top-end content and we'd find out who the real bad motherfuckers are. Instead we get this whiny bitch-fest.

[Tuljin]

Funny how the truth shuts threads down around here, isn't it?

[Kileras]

All of you guys are fags (not in the cool dudes-blowing-dudes way, but in the actually-shitty way) and none of you are doing the content as it was intended.

You're like grown adults fighting over a game of Putt Putt that you're also rule-lawyering the shit out of. Only you're not grown adults and this is an old-ass game.

Rotations. Sharing. Screw the coth mages and the monks and rush content and be fucking beastmode for once in your pussy neckbeard lives.

God knows you'll never do anything comparable to that level of "bravery" irl.

this is so fantastic.

http://i.imgur.com/4HIzSz0.gif

[Kileras]

R'n'F antics aside. Is the only downside to making a civil rotation / sharing mobs the lack of pixel gain? It seems like it would be way more fun for everyone involved to be able to schedule "your night" and crawl through there killing mobs. I know the idea of a rotation is probably impossible, but it seems like there must be a way to make some kind of rotation + FTE on certain mobs or something in order to keep up the fun and spirit of racing while avoiding a complete mess.

[Man0warr]

That is the main downside. Rampage has no reason to be part of a rotation.

[Kekephee]

R'n'F antics aside. Is the only downside to making a civil rotation / sharing mobs the lack of pixel gain? It seems like it would be way more fun for everyone involved to be able to schedule "your night" and crawl through there killing mobs. I know the idea of a rotation is probably impossible, but it seems like there must be a way to make some kind of rotation + FTE on certain mobs or something in order to keep up the fun and spirit of racing while avoiding a complete mess.

The downside is small guilds that can't kill shit team up to kill shit and share multiple rotation slots, at the expense of bigger guilds that can kill that shit, then when the people who are losing out on mobs because of the smaller guilds' cheating try to get it fixed everybody accuses BDA of trying to kill the rotation and leaves the rotation- then says it's BDA's fault everybody left the rotation.

[JboxCSU]

That's a long sentence.

[Kekephee]

That's a long sentence.

It's a very complicated issue, people blaming BDA for their cheat codes not working anymore.

[Kileras]

This is different, it's ntov, I think you big guilds have proven that alliances are somewhat necessary. You should have one spot on a rotation, no double dipping. Make a few mobs part of rotation the rest/all fte after certain period of time. Your fighting over rampage scraps anyway, if they refuse to a rotation or deal just make the rotation/agreement about the scraps.

None of this applies to me, our guild is not interested in the mess nor is of size to do it alone. I just find it interesting to talk about, and while the flaming gets gnarly I sympathiZe with all involved that that certainly does not look fun. There has to be a better solution.

[maestrom]

One of the objections to FiF was: How do you keep a large guild from splitting into several small guilds in order to claim multiple targets, while still allowing smaller guilds that NEED to team up to be able to claim under FIF?

I came up with a solution that I like.

Keeping in mind that a guild or alliance would only be able to claim ONE target at a time, and claiming a target releases any existing claims.

In order for guilds to team up to claim for FIF, they have to post about it in advance, and such alliance (or dissolution of an alliance) would not take effect for 7 days from when the post was made.

This would allow Kittens who say meow to form an alliance with Blackheart Pirates and be able to claim targets, but it would not allow Forsaken to fracture into 2 or 3 guilds and claim targets together and independently.

[JboxCSU]

It's a very complicated issue, people blaming BDA for their cheat codes not working anymore.

Chest trains people intentionally.

[maestrom]

One of the objections to FiF was: How do you keep a large guild from splitting into several small guilds in order to claim multiple targets, while still allowing smaller guilds that NEED to team up to be able to claim under FIF?

I came up with a solution that I like.

Keeping in mind that a guild or alliance would only be able to claim ONE target at a time, and claiming a target releases any existing claims.

In order for guilds to team up to claim for FIF, they have to post about it in advance, and such alliance (or dissolution of an alliance) would not take effect for 7 days from when the post was made.

This would allow Kittens who say meow to form an alliance with Blackheart Pirates and be able to claim targets, but it would not allow Forsaken to fracture into 2 or 3 guilds and claim targets together and independently.

"But what if BHP tries to claim a target without any Kittens there?"

BHP would be allowed to claim the target without the Kittens, but the kittens would not be able to claim a target at the same time. They would have to either join with BHP and kill the BHP target, or would have to convince BHP to come claim their target. But an alliance would not be able to claim two or more targets at once.

Also. Since I've never said it before. Un-claimed targets remain FTE.

[Kileras]

"But what if BHP tries to claim a target without any Kittens there?"

BHP would be allowed to claim the target without the Kittens, but the kittens would not be able to claim a target at the same time. They would have to either join with BHP and kill the BHP target, or would have to convince BHP to come claim their target. But an alliance would not be able to claim two or more targets at once.

Also. Since I've never said it before. Un-claimed targets remain FTE.

I'm not trying to part the seas here. Ntov is just a different beast... It's my understanding that guilds large enough to do it know they can, and those that can't know they can't. The break off for smaller targets model doesn't seem to apply in tov, and as of now there is no rotation on any other part of the game so the issue is void.

I just wanted to clarify if people hated rotations because it limited their access to pixels or content to be busy with, or because everyone just assumes rampage wouldn't allow it. It's complicated but I'm sure you could lay some groundwork to make it possible, it would just require all the big guild to decide that they might not have ntov mobs every weekend and that it was worth passing up the chance of pixels, for a consistent rotation and classic ntov experience.

[Aviann]

Please god no rotation. Just lay down the hammer on people training.

[maestrom]

I'm not trying to part the seas here. Ntov is just a different beast... It's my understanding that guilds large enough to do it know they can, and those that can't know they can't. The break off for smaller targets model doesn't seem to apply in tov, and as of now there is no rotation on any other part of the game so the issue is void.

I just wanted to clarify if people hated rotations because it limited their access to pixels or content to be busy with, or because everyone just assumes rampage wouldn't allow it. It's complicated but I'm sure you could lay some groundwork to make it possible, it would just require all the big guild to decide that they might not have ntov mobs every weekend and that it was worth passing up the chance of pixels, for a consistent rotation and classic ntov experience.

Oh I know what you're saying :P But to be clear, NToV is only a different beast at the moment. Rampage is the only guild that can reliably do everything in NToV... for now. Eventually NToV will be farmable by pretty much every guild that calls itself a raid guild.

But that's kind of the point. I'm not worried about Forsake breaking into 2 guilds and taking out two NToV targets, I'm worried about Forsaken breaking into 2 guilds and taking NToV and Lodi, or Trak, or other low-priority raid targets.

Right now, if Trak and NToV_Dragon_A are in window at the same time, it costs Uber_Guild_1 nothing to leave a tracker at Trak, main force in ToV, and then if trak pops it can just camp over and kill trak and then pick up right where it left off in NToV.

Under FIF, If UG1 abandoned NToV to kill a trak pop, UG2 would just claim the target that UG1 dropped. There is still a competitive aspect to the game. Whoever gets their raid force on and in the zone first gets to claim the target. It just eliminates the need to train all over Norrath to swipe FTE.

[Kluwen1]

That is the main downside. Rampage has no reason to be part of a rotation.

Maybe they do? Seem to be needing Divinity quite a bit lately.

[Stormfists]

Please god no rotation. Just lay down the hammer on people training.

But trains aren't punishable by the GMS, why stop the fun?

I flop trains on people to make sure they roll more monks for revenge flops.

I wont stop until the server is 99% monks, other 1% wizards for versatility.

I cant stop. I want to train you right now.

God, I love training.

Sincerely,
Chest on Storms account.

[Prismaticshop]

I say we call the rampage divinity alliance: Virginity

/toréador

[captnamazing]

I say we call the rampage divinity alliance: Virginity

lol

[JboxCSU]

I say we call the rampage divinity alliance: Virginity

I approve of this message.