Catherins attempt at lawyering

[kotton05]

So I had to police your trackers for over 3 hours because TMO is ignorant of the raid rules? im sorry but I do not really buy that.

Where are the time stamps or fraps? You ain't policing shit. If he had spawned we knew it'd be gg we don't get the dragon. He was being shown exact loc of spawn. Done this a lot longer than you have.

[Yibz]

Our trackers don't answer to known cheaters in opposing guilds. Once they got confirmation they moved.

[Frogie305]

http://media.giphy.com/media/w6MNHOoLEzBVm/giphy.gif
http://media1.giphy.com/media/ptr0TVuChJ9ks/200.gif
http://media0.giphy.com/media/f4ewNgH8gZfVu/200.gif
https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR_eOcCpRf3alV_AAvoXwLIoLurNgwig UOFW7xmuwNQ938QWfCN9w

[Lazie]

So I had to police your trackers for over 3 hours because TMO is ignorant of the raid rules? im sorry but I do not really buy that.

Where are the time stamps or fraps? You ain't policing shit. If he had spawned we knew it'd be gg we don't get the dragon. He was being shown exact loc of spawn. Done this a lot longer than you have.

Catherin was clearly standing on the spawn at the time of the screen shots (If that was indeed the spawn point. Who knows without fraps and a current loc popping on screen ?). So clearly Taken should be at the mercy of the server as well.

[KagatobLuvsAnimu]

Get this server chat shit out of R&F.

[Shinko]

lmao class R so bad

[GnashingOfTeeth]

http://media.giphy.com/media/pNMrBB93GgPny/giphy.gif

[Lazie]

Please explain to me how I am to gather any sort of evidence on what is going on if I do not get close enough for a moment to do so?


Very easily. Run fraps. Dragons do not aggro from a certain range (Hint: It's why you can get in jav range to jav them before they face aggro). You don't have to stand on a spawn to screenshot/fraps people.

[Heebo]

Very easily. Run fraps. Dragons do not aggro from a certain range (Hint: It's why you can get in jav range to jav them before they face aggro). You don't have to stand on a spawn to screenshot/fraps people.

You have to be careful because fraps also records your TeamSpeak if you happen to be bragging about your autofire programs at the time.

http://i.imgur.com/48VbUy2.gif

[Lazie]

You have to be careful because fraps also records your TeamSpeak if you happen to be bragging about your autofire programs at the time.

http://i.imgur.com/48VbUy2.gif

That is true. I forgot he has a problem with talking about the rules he breaks while fraps is running.

[Lazie]

At least Argh is in there talking sense. If the mages weren't KoS what is the difference of standing on the spawn or right outside of Javelin range ? It seems like maybe the mages involved were taking Catherin's insistence on doing CotH ducking and doing it smarter than he was by not being KoS. I could see why he was upset they figured out an advantage.

There is no rule that says a tracker can't stand on the spawn of a Dragon. The Trackers just can't engage and pull the dragon.

[Lazie]

Also I'd like someone with access in that thread to ask the question...

What is the difference between being bound at a target and having a person standing at the target as a mobile bind basically cothing ? Aside from the difference in cast time with CotH and gate obviously. I don't see the difference and the GMs have ruled that being bound at a raid mob is illegal. Aren't mages just basically binds for all the pullers on these mobs ? Heck they give a bigger advantage because they can gate any class to the spawn!

[Detoxx]

This is just a hail mary to try and screw over TMO because you lost, and not to mention your dislike of TMO. We work within the confinements of the raid rules, and because you lost doesnt mean we did anything wrong. You guys are destroying the raid scene, and become something that most guilds cant stand. Your retarded CoTH ducking, that your guild starts with 16 hours in windows, is something no one wants to do, but you still do it. When asked by other guilds to stop, or why you guys are doing it when no one wants to, we get a shrug and you just continue to do it. On top of that, you try to blame the other guilds and say "we didnt start it, we tried to stop but they continued..." etc. Bullshit. Ive tracked next to your trackers and see them start it, and continue to do it when Ive personally asked them to agree to stop.

Pathetic.

[Servellious]

The tears on this box will never stop. It's like anything someone can bitch cry and complain about they will. Absolutely pathetic.

[kotton05]

If it was chest, he'd at least make sense of what he was about to petition and not fabricate rules. I think you're a good person for the server bro.. But Catherine is clearly going full retard. Smh.

I can't even troll and say prove it, when in fact you've already proven you don't have proof Catherine or an understanding of the rules:)

[quido]

Catherin is a dumb cunt.

[Hailto]

Avoid all this bullshit and play Archeage, game is fun.

[Eponymous Anonymous]

http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/587/277/d16.jpg

[Fazlazen]

Catherin is a dumb cunt.

[Kingore]

Best part is its a dude pretending to be a woman.

[Detoxx]

Best part is its a dude pretending to be a woman.

Best part is a dude pretending to be a woman while pretending to be this big server hero while using autofire

[Whiteberry]

Catherin is a dumb cunt.
Indeed my fellow normal human.. Not a guy wishing he was a chick.. Smh

[Whiteberry]

Oh and retarded enough to admit to cheating while on fraps.. LOL

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Rule lawyering on a server where the only recourse is to lawyer the rules???

[nyclin]

gm enforced raid rotation for all mobs GO

the resulting river of tears will flood rnf with glory for months to come

[indiscriminate_hater]

once this server goes custom content, they should make catherin into one of the new bosses. she'll shoot 1000 javelins/sec at the main tank and have an AOE called hormonal discharge which, if unresisted, gives the text 'your neck bristles with pain as new hair shoots forth from the skin', boots you to your desktop, opens up an internet browser, and navigates to your region's classified employment ads on craigslist

[Skew]

once this server goes custom content, they should make catherin into one of the new bosses. she'll shoot 1000 javelins/sec at the main tank and have an AOE called hormonal discharge which, if unresisted, gives the text 'your neck bristles with pain as new hair shoots forth from the skin', boots you to your desktop, opens up an internet browser, and navigates to your region's classified employment ads on craigslist

For Halloween i heard the GMs are spawning a 500lb Lady Gaga called "Catherin A'fire" Loot table is a bag of salty tears and a broken guise of the deceiver.

[Aviann]

I'm pretty sure most of the guilds represented in this thread has had members using autofire.

Let's call the waaaanbulance.

[Oleris]

Things I personally like: R/C rotation and less variance.

Velious will solve all though

[Ravager]

lmao class R so bad

Shinko is in a class of his own.

[Faron]

Can anyone confirm what shinko sounds like on vent? I'm picturing an even more desperate for attention tiggles + lisp.

[Clark]

Afraid not Faron.

[Servellious]

Can anyone confirm what shinko sounds like on vent? I'm picturing an even more desperate for attention tiggles + lisp.

Fuck you Shinko is the man

[Kingore]

Can anyone confirm what shinko sounds like on vent? I'm picturing an even more desperate for attention tiggles + lisp.

I used to think Shinko was the biggest douchebag around, till I actually got to know him. Pretty decent guy. Would guild with again.

[Kingore]

Best part is its a dude pretending to be a woman.

I don't think my prior quote has gotten enough attention. HE USES A VOICE CHANGER TO MAKE PEOPLE THINK HE IS A FEMALE.

Do you guys not see something wrong with this? It's seriously so fucked up.

[Raev]

Can anyone confirm what shinko sounds like on vent? I'm picturing an even more desperate for attention tiggles + lisp.

No one can top Tiggles' high register.

Shinko really isn't such a terrible guy; I think he's just kind of insecure.

[quido]

The one time I heard Catherin in a recording she sounded like the chick from the Portal games.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I know this isn't about voice changes or autofire, but seeing as there's no where else to put this:

Catherin's post is nothing short of a false narrative aimed solely at painting a rules violation where none exists. Not only are the evidentiary standards used miserably low, he fails to elaborate how or why out of place mages constitute a violation, when there has been no spawn, and thus no harm. It's a witch hunt created to rally the townsfolk with torches and pitchforks.

The GM posts and rulings cited are all clearly aimed at the consequences caused when you have parked trackers. Parking a tracker in the wrong spot should not be done because of the RESULT when the mob spawns. The key is that the mob has spawned and the encounter is thus tainted. If a group is farming Tola when Trak is in window, does that guild lose the kill? Only if the group was present when it spawns; this is well established. By Catherin's logic a mage merely running through the area is in violation. A single person camping king 8 hours before Trak spawns forfeits the kill for the guild despite having logged many hours before it spawned. It is a completely unworkable standard that borders on thought crime and it is utterly incapable of being properly policed.

Perhaps most laughably, Catherin has the utterly shameless nerve to be upset and seek GM enforced retribution because he was spoken to in anything less than a tone of complete reverence. This is the same person who put "DEAL WITH IT" sunglasses in his signature as a direct response to community outcry of his cheating with third party programs. The audacity and outright opportunism of this individual is appalling.

[Frieza_Prexus]

...before he joined tmo:
and then this lol when Eadric called him out:

Don't worry, we'll get a TMO tag on you too one day, and we'll all have tea and lololol about these shenanigans.

[Godefroi]

In Metallikus's world, everything is bipolar. You're either Good guys or bad guys.

Someone should let him know guilds merges at time (IB with Dojo, TMO with FE). The only guild that never merges is his. Afterall well, FE was created by BDA Drop outs, same goes for Omni.

Maybe there is a reason for that hmmm, go figure lol. Perhaps the fact that Chest is a butthurt loser with other butthurt fanboys like you ?

Meh, jeez, I posted in RnF again I'll never get those 2 minutes back :(

[holsteinrx7]

I forget if Catherin is the annoying bish from inglorious basterds or taken because they both have that in common and I'm no longer in those guilds. Nothing like broads squaking orders over teamspeak allllll day.

[holsteinrx7]

Again, if it was pvp there would be no lawyering.

[Servellious]

After being feed bullshit and lies (TMO training BDA when it was Xerxes on orders from chest is my favorite) for so long eventually one wakes up and realizes the truth and sees things clearly. Your guilds leadership is incompetent it's time to move on. You got a lot of free time on your hands though you should dig and find some more stuff. I sure remember some great stories of having access to bda officer forums.




















and then this lol when Eadric called him out:[/QUOTE]

[Raev]

(TMO training BDA when it was Xerxes on orders from chest is my favorite)

whoa whoa whoa, please elaborate

[Aviann]

Should've named this thread

"Check out me crying over things other people did"

[Servellious]

whoa whoa whoa, please elaborate

One word firewall

[Faron]

join red and get vp geared in 2 months or keep standing in line for pixels for 3 years on blue with no pvp

HEH

ok fuck it I give up. Where do I sign up?

[Joyelle]

Nothing like broads squaking orders over teamspeak allllll day.

Why don't you save the misogynistic superiority complex for when you can actually play the game with some competence?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

In Metallikus's world, everything is bipolar. You're either Good guys or bad guys.

Someone should let him know guilds merges at time (IB with Dojo, TMO with FE). The only guild that never merges is his. Afterall well, FE was created by BDA Drop outs, same goes for Omni.

Maybe there is a reason for that hmmm, go figure lol. Perhaps the fact that Chest is a butthurt loser with other butthurt fanboys like you ?

Meh, jeez, I posted in RnF again I'll never get those 2 minutes back :(

That's really more borderline personality disorder.

Ready for that tmo bda merger. Chest come home.

Also, executioner's blade.jpg

[Ravager]

That's really more borderline personality disorder.

Ready for that tmo bda merger. Chest come home.

Also, executioner's blade.jpg

Just merge all the guilds and call it Global OOC. Then everyone is a winner, yay!

[kotton05]

Just merge all the guilds and call it Global OOC. Then everyone is a winner, yay!

That'd be like red!

Catherine quick to retract tho. With frivolous petitions like this should really move to class c.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Just merge all the guilds and call it Global OOC. Then everyone is a winner, yay!

Cmon rav. Remember the good times!

[Lazie]

So basically this turned into Catherin not understanding the raid rules while trying to tell other people they were breaking the rules.

[kotton05]

Petitions should be like challenges in football. You get two per month, don't waste them etc.

[Clark]

Petitions should be like challenges in football. You get two per month, don't waste them etc.

lol

[Anichek]

Don't worry, we'll get a TMO tag on you too one day, and we'll all have tea and lololol about these shenanigans.

Confirmed Anthrax has ghost app in TMO - only in BDA as a spy and to stay in line in our loot vending machine because pixels.

[Anichek]

After being feed bullshit and lies (TMO training BDA when it was Xerxes on orders from chest is my favorite) for so long eventually one wakes up and realizes the truth and sees things clearly.

Confirmed Chest in TMO - has been the entire time.


BDA will never merge with TMO, we're a guild of TMO alts already - just waiting to spring the trap on the rest of Class R. Suckers.

[Anichek]

Oh, and without quotes:

Cucumbers = Derubael

Confirmed BDA is TMO Class R Alt Army, has GM in guild and on payroll, and Anthrax + Chest turn in the greatest acting performances the server has ever seen on a routine basis.

slowclap.gif

[Raev]

One word firewall

that's three words, and I'm not sure what any of them mean

[Lictor]

So Cath and GMs both realize the jig is up and drop the case like a sac of Arby's. Now Asguard officer is calling for a 2 Week Suspension!! Lol this just gets better and better!!

Ah boo. He/she/it didn't roll over on his guildmates this time at the first sign of trouble? Boring.

[Anichek]

triple post = fail poster

You find my lack of outward anger disturbing.

http://i.imgur.com/ZG6iKr3.gif

[Swish]

Still wondering tho... how was using 3rd party software not a bannable offence in Catherin's case?

Autofire isn't for winners pals, keep the streets clean or everyone gon' get some.

[Servellious]

that's three words, and I'm not sure what any of them mean

It was a matter of Xerxes being told to bring mobs through the firewall into bda camp with it a train came. Chest as usual convinced us all it was a TMO train and cries and yells and stomped his feet. Now imagine every time chest has cried foul with no evidence to back it up. One can only imagine how many of those "trains" were prolly BDA training themselves. There is a reason people call certain guilds feeder guilds it's because eventually the members learn how corrupt and inept the leadership is and they move on.

[Aviann]

Still wondering tho... how was using 3rd party software not a bannable offence in Catherin's case?

Autofire isn't for winners pals, keep the streets clean or everyone gon' get some.

I would imagine that it'd be because of the investigation that would have to follow, involving 3/4 top tier guilds on the server.

[kotton05]

Derubael

I honestly don't see how Sirken's statement of "no trackers on the spawn point period" could be interpreted any other way than how it was stated, but,

Please give me examples of:

What evidence I can provide that makes where they are standing clearer than a screenshot with a loc. I know someone on that staff knows the location of Sev and can put the pieces together with what was provided.

And how I am supposed to get something clearer than a screenshot with a loc without actually getting close enough to provide that.

Basically, what are you looking for that you consider solid? Because this will happen again. And it will keep happening until someone finally gets caught and pays for it. The last few FFA Faydedars had agro by trackers which then died and dropped the agro onto other trackers, effectively killing all the trackers. I had originally petitioned this hoping someone could actually pop in quickly and see what was going on for themselves, as that would have worked out a lot better than me providing the unrealistic proof that seems to be required (what is needed is not clear, even if I get enough then im in violation to get it)

This has been going on regularly since the first sev dispute and nobody can give anyone enough to "prove it"

you gave no proof. L2petition quest.

have you not read this thread? god save taken from the internal disruption this person may be causing. yall having the blind leading the blind. maybe some taken members will see how stupid this really is and school cat on it.

[ManosMan]

I would pay a lot of dollars (and completely give up any actual account) for a ghost/gm account for the sole purpose of following raids around. Two guilds in one raid zone? I'm there. It's must-see entertainment, like MTV but the New Jersey people get each other killed. Or sort of like the freak show episodes of Springer meeting the chair throwing episodes of Springer.

[Lazie]

you gave no proof. L2petition quest.

Derubael

I honestly don't see how Sirken's statement of "no trackers on the spawn point period" could be interpreted any other way than how it was stated, but,

Please give me examples of:

What evidence I can provide that makes where they are standing clearer than a screenshot with a loc. I know someone on that staff knows the location of Sev and can put the pieces together with what was provided.

And how I am supposed to get something clearer than a screenshot with a loc without actually getting close enough to provide that.

Basically, what are you looking for that you consider solid? Because this will happen again. And it will keep happening until someone finally gets caught and pays for it. The last few FFA Faydedars had agro by trackers which then died and dropped the agro onto other trackers, effectively killing all the trackers. I had originally petitioned this hoping someone could actually pop in quickly and see what was going on for themselves, as that would have worked out a lot better than me providing the unrealistic proof that seems to be required (what is needed is not clear, even if I get enough then im in violation to get it)

This has been going on regularly since the first sev dispute and nobody can give anyone enough to "prove it"

You gave no proof whatsoever of what you were trying to prove. Even if the proof you provided was the spawn point. IT SHOWED YOU ON THE SPAWN POINT AS WELL!!

Catherin you continually are a person in the raid environment who pushes the envelope to the point of breaking rules you don't understand.

1. You used autofire and got busted on a fraps admitting it.
2. You engaged and pulled a dragon that you nor your guild had FTE on. The GM's let you skate on that one.

Now you are trying to tell people you don't understand how to gather evidence of people on a spawn point ? Well first you download fraps. Got that ? Good now install it. Got that ? Good now start it! That's all you need since luckily you possess a bard with bind site. Go to the area before Sev spawns. Target the player you think is break a rule from well out of aggro range. Now bind site on them. Done.

[Lazie]

breaking* ^^

[Detoxx]

Woah woah woah Lazie, you can bring a moron to water....

S/hes obviously clueless about any of this, and we should just let it continue to embarass itself.

[Lazie]

Woah woah woah Lazie, you can bring a moron to water....

S/hes obviously clueless about any of this, and we should just let it continue to embarass itself.

I try to help the little people.

[Detoxx]

My guess is that she lost even using autofire (again) and it's bitter

[Servellious]

Where were the tmo trackers when sev spawned?

[Uuruk]

Catherin is proof you don't need to be good at everquest to be successful on this server. Just need a box of twinkies, welfare, and your handy redguides account and you can be successful just like Catherin.

[Lazie]

C/R rotation and then FFA on repops is the most realistic way to go in my opinion.

100% FFA repops effectively eliminate the sockfest/magecoh/drama that we have been experiencing every single time these FFA mobs come along.

To me it really is a no brainer that this takes care of a lot of issues. The biggest one separating Class C and R from each other. Repops become a true race while Class C can continue their thing in Class C while Class R can continue their thing in Class R

The other thing I really think needs to happen is we need some clear expectations on moving out of Class C if it doesn't work out for us. Moving to Class C is like the current FFA monstrosity now, except you are forced to do it on every mob, every time.

It was staffs goal to provide an environment to move want to move to class C, but you must see this is not that environment. I know that moving my guild to class C, even if we got a target or two here and then would ultimately destroy my guild. I would never in my right mind put my guild in that position.

Why does this person even have access to the raid forums ? Clearly has no clue what he is talking about. Every time he makes a post about the raid scene half of what he types is incorrect.

[Man0warr]

There is a reason people call certain guilds feeder guilds it's because eventually the members learn how corrupt and inept the leadership is and they move on.

Nah it's always pixels.

[Cecily]

Sometimes it's the people.

[BurgyK]

You would be pretty disappointed. shit gets blown out of proportion on forums not in game.

[Lazie]

I asked for Derubaels opinion. of yours of course you will give it anyways but I will always assume what you say is in the best interest of you and yours only.

Why is the chat box that you have set for tells scrolled up in your last screenshot ?? Please reply.

[Lazie]

This previous post is more of you saying I need to prove it. Derubael already said I did not have enough to prove it. I backed off this particular incident Move on.

I followed the protocol no matter which way you try to slice it. I just forget that you guys wrote the book on rule lawyering, and im trying to get some clear info so I can do better the next time your guild pulls the same shit.

Why are you so upset over me trying to find out clearly what the GMs want in future scenarios? Do you expect me to take your word on it?

You did not follow protocol even in it's barest form. The GM already told you in his 2 posts what to do in the same scenario. Can you not comprehend english ?

[Cecily]

This is the best possible argument for separate raiding classes, keeping people who don't know how to raid away from people who do. FFA interaction is mercifully short. Having to "compete" against idiots like this simply isn't fun, so a big thank you to Rogean and pals for giving us what we didn't know we wanted.

[Lazie]

This is the best possible argument for separate raiding classes, keeping people who don't know how to raid away from people who do. FFA interaction is mercifully short. Having to "compete" against idiots like this simply isn't fun, so a big thank you to Rogean and pals for giving us what we didn't know we wanted.

I just am aghast that this guy leads a guild in some form.

[Clark]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EqaiivYM6k

[Skew]

Why is this moran not banned for being caught red handed using Autofire?

[Uuruk]

Why is this moran not banned for being caught red handed using Autofire?

Why would it matter honestly?

[Ele]

kindly back off.

[Lazie]

Guy starts a troll petition not understanding what he needs to petition and what the rules are. Gets called out for it. Tells people they are flaming. I'm confused.

[Raev]

This is the best possible argument for separate raiding classes, keeping people who don't know how to raid away from people who do. FFA interaction is mercifully short. Having to "compete" against idiots like this simply isn't fun, so a big thank you to Rogean and pals for giving us what we didn't know we wanted.

Then do you support C/R rotation on normal spawns plus FFA repops?

[Ella`Ella]

FFA repops?

With no bag limit.

[Daldaen]

With no bag limit.

With VP being FFA and not turning you to Class Neckbeard on repop. Sure.

[Lazie]

With VP being FFA and not turning you to Class Neckbeard on repop. Sure.

How many hours a week would you say you play EQ ? If it is more than say 24. Congrats you play more hours than 80% of TMO.

[Detoxx]

With VP being FFA and not turning you to Class Neckbeard on repop. Sure.

If you dont see the flaw in your quick to respond quip, you shouldnt try to make new rules.

[Lazie]

If you dont see the flaw in your quick to respond quip, you shouldnt try to make new rules.

It would be interesting the sheer amount of trains in VP when they tried though. Then they would be rezzing all their raiders during the extent of the repop while everything inside of and outside of VP gets killed.

[Daldaen]

It would be interesting the sheer amount of trains in VP when they tried though. Then they would be rezzing all their raiders during the extent of the repop while everything inside of and outside of VP gets killed.

I'd be more interested to see the petitions Class R guilds file when Class C's trains get dropped on them cause they don't understand how unclassic the raid strategies of VP are on this server.

The tears from both sides would be quite delectable.

And nah, not really close to 24 hours. I sleep early and have been busy last few weekends. Maybe soon I'll try to neckbeard out a weekend. I get bored easily so I can't neckbeard the same as you all with your 16 hour wall staring. Will probably be on Alts.

[Cecily]

Then do you support C/R rotation on normal spawns plus FFA repops?

As much as I'd like complete segregation, IB is horribly boring to raid against. They aren't allowed to speak in public channels, whereas class R people are kinda entertaining while you're waiting on a spawn. If we go full rotation, this game will really feel like instanced content with absolutely no reason for guilds to interact with each other.

As far as VP, Class R needs to stay out. The skill level required to pull the zone and not have the literal whole zone kill everyone is a little higher than I'd feel comfortable entrusting with casual guilds in a competitive environment.

[Lazie]

I'd be more interested to see the petitions Class R guilds file when Class C's trains get dropped on them cause they don't understand how unclassic the raid strategies of VP are on this server.

The tears from both sides would be quite delectable.

And nah, not really close to 24 hours. I sleep early and have been busy last few weekends. Maybe soon I'll try to neckbeard out a weekend. I get bored easily so I can't neckbeard the same as you all with your 16 hour wall staring. Will probably be on Alts.

You definitely don't understand a thing about VP if that is your thoughts on what will happen.

[drktmplr12]

the state of raiding on this server is beyond ridiculous. it reminds me of small claims court or ricky lake type shit. how did it get this bad? :confused:

everyone should just read the thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168758) again and think REAL HARD about it.

you will soon find yourself questioning why the hell you give a shit about participating in it.

[Ele]

the state of raiding on this server is beyond ridiculous. it reminds me of small claims court or ricky lake type shit. how did it get this bad? :confused:

everyone should just read the thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168758) again and think REAL HARD about it.

you will soon find yourself questioning why the hell you give a shit about participating in it.

Lack of progression. Nothing new for people at the top to move on to.

[skipdog]

It was a matter of Xerxes being told to bring mobs through the firewall into bda camp with it a train came. Chest as usual convinced us all it was a TMO train and cries and yells and stomped his feet. Now imagine every time chest has cried foul with no evidence to back it up. One can only imagine how many of those "trains" were prolly BDA training themselves. There is a reason people call certain guilds feeder guilds it's because eventually the members learn how corrupt and inept the leadership is and they move on.

This made me laugh really hard, mainly because in my very short time in BDA(like only a couple weeks), I saw Chest blame multiple BDA trains on TMO and the BDA members eat it all up like it was their job.

[Raev]

With no bag limit.

Do you really think the bag limit will matter?

I mean look. If guilds are competing based on legitimate skill then I say to the fastest go the mostest. If you can mobilize and kill 5 mobs before the R guilds then I say to the fastest go the mostest. If your plan is to collude with IB to leave VP for last while you shuffle between camped alts at VS, CT, and Sev and IB shuffles between camped alts at Trakanon, Innoruuk, and Faydedar? Not so much.

[Cecily]

The brainwashing that goes on in BDA is no joke. Guild is a fucking cult.

[Raev]

fuck not being able to edit my retarded babble on rnf. Anyway you get the point.

[Reguiy]

the state of raiding on this server is beyond ridiculous. it reminds me of small claims court or ricky lake type shit. how did it get this bad? :confused:

everyone should just read the thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168758) again and think REAL HARD about it.

you will soon find yourself questioning why the hell you give a shit about participating in it.

Agreed. The raid discussion forum should be renamed to, "Why instances exist in modern day MMOs."

[Lazie]

Do you really think the bag limit will matter?

I mean look. If guilds are competing based on legitimate skill then I say to the fastest go the mostest. If you can mobilize and kill 5 mobs before the R guilds then I say to the fastest go the mostest. If your plan is to collude with IB to leave VP for last while you shuffle between camped alts at VS, CT, and Sev and IB shuffles between camped alts at Trakanon, Innoruuk, and Faydedar? Not so much.

No that is not what he meant by imposing no bag limit. Say we drop the bag limit and make VP FFA as well on repops. If Class R guilds(The ones with VP keys) tie up their raid force in VP without ever raiding there competitively then they pretty much assured they are going to watch IB/TMO kill what they want in VP and then move outside of VP and kill what the guilds that didn't go to VP didn't.

This is no offense to Class R guilds wanting to try. It's just by the time they respond to the earthquake and mobilize to VP and try to setup how they plan to setup and pull in there. 3 or 4 of the VP dragons will be dead already. Nexona will be left up last and in cases where everything is FFA will be left alone for the Class R guilds to try to pull and kill while IB and TMO fights for whatever is outside of VP.

[Raev]

No that is not what he meant by imposing no bag limit. Say we drop the bag limit and make VP FFA as well on repops. If Class R guilds(The ones with VP keys) tie up their raid force in VP without ever raiding there competitively then they pretty much assured they are going to watch IB/TMO kill what they want in VP and then move outside of VP and kill what the guilds that didn't go to VP didn't.

This is no offense to Class R guilds wanting to try. It's just by the time they respond to the earthquake and mobilize to VP and try to setup how they plan to setup and pull in there. 3 or 4 of the VP dragons will be dead already. Nexona will be left up last and in cases where everything is FFA will be left alone for the Class R guilds to try to pull and kill while IB and TMO fights for whatever is outside of VP.

Well obviously it would be quite unfair to the Class C guilds if repops were straight FFA and the bag limit stayed at two. If that was Unbrella's meaning then I agree completely. Whether the bag limit was raised/eliminated or VP targets did not count or whatever, something would have to be done.

My suspicion is most people in Class R want VP to be FFA on repops because a) it prevents IB/TMO from colluding to leave the zone for last and b) it lets them dream their dreams of a crown of rile

[arsenalpow]

This made me laugh really hard, mainly because in my very short time in BDA(like only a couple weeks), I saw Chest blame multiple BDA trains on TMO and the BDA members eat it all up like it was their job.

The brainwashing that goes on in BDA is no joke. Guild is a fucking cult.

I force them all to call me "glorious dead leader."

Anyone who isn't missing part of their brain can see how things really go down on this server. I'm outspoken and not very fond of TMO, there's been multiple instances where they've wronged me and my guild.

Every other guild goes through this process with TMO whether it was FE (who joined them for the pixels) to Taken or even someone tinier like Asgard. You get in the way of TMO pixels and you'll get the full treatment. You'll get the spies in your guildchat and forums, you'll get the spin cycle on RnF, you'll get the blatant lies and badmouthing, and even when you catch them doing something completely heinous unless you have 4 different fraps at 4 different angles with complete logs timestamps and R Kelly's mom saying "ya that's my boy Robert, always peeing on bitches" it will only end in some slap on the wrist.

[Lazie]

I force them all to call me "glorious dead leader."

Anyone who isn't missing part of their brain can see how things really go down on this server. I'm outspoken and not very fond of TMO, there's been multiple instances where they've wronged me and my guild.

Every other guild goes through this process with TMO whether it was FE (who joined them for the pixels) to Taken or even someone tinier like Asgard. You get in the way of TMO pixels and you'll get the full treatment. You'll get the spies in your guildchat and forums, you'll get the spin cycle on RnF, you'll get the blatant lies and badmouthing, and even when you catch them doing something completely heinous unless you have 4 different fraps at 4 different angles with complete logs timestamps and R Kelly's mom saying "ya that's my boy Robert, always peeing on bitches" it will only end in some slap on the wrist.

Anyone with half a brain believes half of what you spew. No offense of course I am sure you are enjoyable outside of this environment to be around. You are just very bad at making assumptions and very good at being incorrect 90% of the time.

[Susvain2]

Can anyone confirm what shinko sounds like on vent? I'm picturing an even more desperate for attention tiggles + lisp.

shinko is hilarious. he sounds like a regular guy. not much of canadian accent

[Xerxes]

uhh that firewall train was totally my fuckup. i didnt understand mechanics back then as well as i do now. but looking back on my time in bda, im pretty sure in most cases tmo did train bda on purpose. not everytime someone claimed they did im sure, but there was definitely truth to some of the claims!

[Lazie]

Well obviously it would be quite unfair to the Class C guilds if repops were straight FFA and the bag limit stayed at two. If that was Unbrella's meaning then I agree completely. Whether the bag limit was raised/eliminated or VP targets did not count or whatever, something would have to be done.

My suspicion is most people in Class R want VP to be FFA on repops because a) it prevents IB/TMO from colluding to leave the zone for last and b) it lets them dream their dreams of a crown of rile

Pretty much what I assume as well. I mean it is not like they couldn't be competitive if they put in the time in VP. It just takes them learning the mechanics which they wouldn't be able to do quickly in an FFA environment in there.

[Susvain2]

i cant even tell if Catherin was serious. Ask your own trackers, for hours and including when Sev spawned, the TMO trackers were right next to Taken/IB everyone elses trackers.

If Sev spawned when the TMO tracker was on the spawn, we woulda got in trouble. But it didnt.

[Lazie]

i cant even tell if Catherin was serious. Ask your own trackers, for hours and including when Sev spawned, the TMO trackers were right next to Taken/IB everyone elses trackers.

If Sev spawned when the TMO tracker was on the spawn, we woulda got in trouble. But it didnt.

Who knows if they were ever on the spawn by his screenshots ? Seriously it was a complete troll petition from the start with the evidence he tried to use.

[Susvain2]

It was admitted by a TMO member there at the tracking early on, we were on the spot briefly (not sure why) and we moved. If we didnt move, and it spawned. It would be GG forfeit.

How come IB hasn't said anything anywhere? They were there the whole time

[khanable]

This made me laugh really hard, mainly because in my very short time in BDA(like only a couple weeks), I saw Chest blame multiple BDA trains on TMO and the BDA members eat it all up like it was their job.

oooh I remember you

You were that guy that got his cleric banned and then did all that MQ2 shit on stream and caused a big ruckus here, no?

anyway, yea, Chest blames everything on TMO. I once fell out of PoS and he sent Unbrella a nasty tell insinuating that he teamed up with Jeremy to send packets of wasd to my ip causing me to run off the island.

Crazy shit.

[Funkutron5000]

I will never not laugh at the Larrikan's mask thread.

[Cecily]

Making fun of TMO was some good times.

[Aviann]

Making fun of TMO was some good times.

Still is

[nyclin]

everyone should just read the thread (http://www.project1999.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168758) again and think REAL HARD about it.

you will soon find yourself questioning why the hell you give a shit about participating in it.

[Troubled]

At least you guys got Catherin to stop coth ducking for a few seconds to type responses and take screenshots. Pras TMO.

[Susvain2]

who here hasnt made a x1000 anti tmo threads only to end up joining The Bad Guys?

he who fucks nuns will later join the church

[chief]

If a mob is in window you are not allowed to walk on the mobs spawn location or you will be guild suspended

[Cecily]

The floor is lava!

[Shinko]

how come TMO guild leader is an FE officer?

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

how come TMO guild leader is an FE officer?

http://www.myfacewhen.net/uploads/6242-i-have-no-idea-what-im-doing.gif

[Fael]

Reading the raid forum is a fairly depressing thing to do for several reasons. First, the degree of spite that exists among our server’s guild leaders is shameful. Second, our server’s guild leaders display a frightening deficiency in logical reasoning. I will give the CS staff a pass when they occasionally say illogical things, because they are having to weigh through so much irrelevant information that it is undoubtedly difficult to parse. Third, our raid forums gives the main stream media a run for its money in terms of perpetuating misinformation and out-right lies.

Catherine's post is a perfect example:

As a preliminary, the notion that being in the “wrong place” is by itself a raid violation worthy of a suspension is an extreme position to say the least. Something more is needed. Generally, the conduct must CAUSE a wrong. Thus, for raid interference to occur, you need a dragon to spawn and you need that person who is wrongly positioned to effect the dragon.

This argument sort of reminds me of Taken’s (surprise, surprise) previous position in the last dispute that their disregard of an FTE message was justified because of other player’s "illegal aggro" from being too slow to the draw on a jav. It is a conclusion that is so stupid, that it is perhaps difficult for Sirken and company to anticipate.

But even if you take the position that Sirken was essentially saying that no person shall ever pass within aggro range of Sev's spawn point during the 16 hour window, you still have to get around his use of the word "park." And then also his use of the term “poop socking the raid location,” and then his reference to persons getting FTE.

These other words suggest that Sirken was simply saying that if guilds continue to sit on the spawn point and coth duck, action will be taken. No matter how you cut it, Sirken’s statement very, very likely was not intended to suggest that a player is not allowed to show a new person Sev's spawn location at the beginning of his window. This falls well short of "parking," or "poopsocking," or getting FTE. Now if Sev spawned and they got aggro… that is something else entirely.

But the real problem with this whole scenario is the fact that Catherine misrepresented her/himself (so many rumors I generally have no idea) to Derubael. What he did constitutes misrepresentation because he deliberately used the evidence to create an inference that Ferment was at that spot when he coth’d Yibz to get fte. I know he wasn’t because I was bind site on him 30 minutes from the spawn and the entire group of Cother’s were all hanging out together coth ducking. Prove it you say? Of course, this is P99 where you have to prove that another person’s accusation is false. Nevermind the fact that Sev’s window lasted 15ish hours; and that if TMO mages really “poopsocked” such that it gave them an advantage at the 2 hour mark, there would be a heck of a lot of guilds freaking out about it and taking pictures and fraps. Misery loves company.

But all this is besides the point… because what these leaders need to do is grow the fuck up. If someone is in the wrong spot tell them, allow them to move to the right spot. Tell others in their guild that they need to wake up and move. We can compete against each other in a friendly way. I can guarantee you that if someone in our guild was notified we would freak out and get it fixed, because its just tragic when 4 people spend 16 hours of their life coth ducking and its all for not because they were being ignorant and were in the wrong spot.

You might say, “it’s not my responsibility,” Dolic; I am a douche bag and I like being a douche bag. If that’s the case, then be that way. Let it all unfold and if TMO engages sev in an improper way, let TMO get suspended. Or petition a GM and waste his time, when it could all get resolved in a simple way and we can move on.

The current rules have us coth ducking on weekends like a bunch of pathetic low lifes. At least we can have some civility towards one another, and compete honestly.

Instead many of our guilds are run by nerds that with gigantic pixilated chips on their shoulders: You have Catherine misrepresenting herself to the CS staff. You have Chest jumping in to say “TMO was defiant and trolled in response, never moved, and benefited from it.” Chest is a true believer so its hard to fault him for being psychotic. But even then, how can TMO troll when they didn’t say anything—Catherine deliberately didn’t show their response to her! And then, of course, he is a liar or just makes stuff up, where he says we benefited from it. (see evidence of eventual FTE’er being out of antonian jav range). Perhaps he too like the rest of you don’t understand what cause and effect is.

Thankfully, Argh of A Team is a lone champion of clear thought fighting the good fight (i.e. he knows what the word disrupt means). But his clear thought is murdered by Artaenc, who suggests a 2 week raid suspension for this “clear violation.” Drakakade… im not sure what he is trying to say, but I think he too misses the point as he assumes that TMO was “poopsocking.”

In short, this minor fucking incident that in no way causally effected Sev’s FTE has spawned a three page raid forum discussion amongst brain dead guild leaders. It produced 3 responses from Derubeal, each one as long as this God damn ridiculously long post.

At this point, I kind of hate all of you. Mostly because I know I've stepped into your arena, and I am woefully unprepared to do battle on your very low level.

Maybe I should just go red.

Dolic

[arsenalpow]

blah blah blah
so anyone that disagreed with your stance is ruining the server, agrh agrees with your position so he's an ok guy

you're a moron

[Detoxx]

At least you guys got Catherin to stop coth ducking for a few seconds to type responses and take screenshots. Pras TMO.

Lol you think for one second s/he does it? naw she pawns that off on her peons while sitting on her bard afk lol

[Detoxx]

so anyone that disagreed with your stance is ruining the server, agrh agrees with your position so he's an ok guy

you're a moron

You're a fucking nutjob man, holy shit. You hold grudes against a tag that is completely different than the guild that "wronged you" for years. You are the problem with this server, and you brainwash your guildies into thinking what YOU want them to think. Thats psychotic. Get over it, its a fucking video game.

[runlvlzero]

tldr

http://i.imgur.com/j7Ktz5Y.gif

[Fael]

so anyone that disagreed with your stance is ruining the server, agrh agrees with your position so he's an ok guy

you're a moron

Chest, you said that we benefited from having a mage at the spawn location 10+ before it spawns.

Could you explain how? I actually want to understand how your mind works. Are you a liar? Do you simply fail to make any reasonable attempt ascertain the truth of things you say? Or is there a wire loose?

[Detoxx]

Chest, you said that we benefited from having a mage at the spawn location 10+ before it spawns.

Could you explain how? I actually want to understand how your mind works. Are you a liar? Do you simply fail to make any reasonable attempt ascertain the truth of things you say? Or is there a wire loose?

Have you read anything this guy posts? You're wasting your time. TMO is at fault for everything, BDA is a saint, Taken is being unfairly targeted, 10 guilds in harmony, spearheaded a rotation....blah blah blah

[DetroitVelvetSmooth]

Detoxx ITT every post

http://troll.me/images2/leave-britney-alone/leave-tmo-alone.jpg

[arsenalpow]

Why should the community be forced to decide a punishment? Not even trolling, serious question.

Catherin pointed out an infraction, IB once made aware of the infraction moved. TMO was defiant and trolled in response, never moved, and benefitted from it. Sirken's statement is well known, TMO has raided plenty of times to know this. Why should blatant disregard for a known rule need tacit approval from the community?

I think the complete disregard even after the dialogue shows a behavior pattern that we've seen so many times before. Levy a strong punishment to discourage this type of behavior and to set an example going forward that this type of crap won't be tolerated by the staff or community.

That was my post. "Benefitted from it" is under the assumption that your location aided your ability to successfully get FTE. It's the same assumption Catherin had to make when she said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I don't know if it helped TMO or if they would have gotten FTE anyways etc etc"

I'm more concerned with the behavior itself and not the specific infraction and/or the gains. I specifically said pattern of behavior for a reason. You can disagree all you want but I'm above the opinion that Catherin shouldn't have to be policing your guild. IB was in the wrong, was told about the rule and they gladly moved away. The TMO response was basically "fuck you, we do what we want" which has been the general opinion of your guild since it's inception.

This pattern of behavior can be seen in the Dinacarl train. "Fuck you, we train if we want" and there next to no repercussions. That's the main issue that I have. Every time your guild bends a rule or fucks IB over in VP you act like it's your god given right to do so and 95% of the time the staff either defends you or it's a slap on the wrist. Every time should be a demerit and those penalties should escalate. Saying that class c (and VP specifically) should expect collateral damage when "competing" for targets because VP is such a complicated zone is bullshit.

You and your guild should be held to the same standards as everyone else. You aren't fucking special, you don't get to stand on a spawn point and Catherin shouldn't have to watch you like a hawk and have multiple instances of fraps proving it to make sure you behave like everyone else. The forum lawyering is nauseating too.

Y'all wonder why none of the class R guilds want to get into class C, it's because of your guilds turns the raid scene into a circus and it's been like that for 4 years. Grow up.

[arsenalpow]

*of the opinion

Going to bed. This server is awful.

[Servellious]

assumption used in the first sentence that right there is the entire problem people just like to assume and have not one shred of evidence of wrong doing I mean ffs the logs show our fte person being out of jav range when Coth'd yet you guys are on a fucking witch hunt. Shit is completely mind blowing. I think guilds and guild leaders need to start getting suspended for formulating fake accusations on other guilds and crying wolf every time they don't get a cookie.

[Heebo]

You aren't fucking special, you don't get to stand on a spawn point and Catherin shouldn't have to watch you like a hawk and have multiple instances of fraps proving it to make sure you behave like everyone else.

You're right. He only needs one instance of us standing on the spawn - when the dragon popped. He doesn't have that because we weren't.

[Fael]

That was my post. "Benefitted from it" is under the assumption that your location aided your ability to successfully get FTE. It's the same assumption Catherin had to make when she said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I don't know if it helped TMO or if they would have gotten FTE anyways etc etc"
.
.
.
I'm more concerned with the behavior itself and not the specific infraction and/or the gains. I specifically said pattern of behavior for a reason. You can disagree all you want but I'm above the opinion that Catherin shouldn't have to be policing your guild. IB was in the wrong, was told about the rule and they gladly moved away. The TMO response was basically "fuck you, we do what we want" which has been the general opinion of your guild since it's inception.

You guys are the leaders of the premier guilds. ALL OF YOU, need to be held accountable for the toxicity that underpins our server's raid scene.

Each of you fire of petitions based on false assumptions on a regular basis. And whatever guild is being accused, whether its BDA, Taken, IB, TMO, whoever, is attacked by the rest of the sharks in a way that ignores the truth of things and perpetuates false assumptions.

I do agree however. This has become "a circus and it's been like that for 4 years." The server is fucked up in this regard, and everyone does need to "Grow up." And it starts with you, with catherine, getsome, TMO leaders. You guys are the leaders. You guys need to stop with this petty bull shit.

Dolic

[Juevento]

*of the opinion

Going to bed. This server is awful.

Dude, fuck this place. Sirken and Deru letting TMO shit on everyone for years ruined it.

Come to Archeage and be a pirate! Tahyang server.

Someone starts some beef, you just go on ahead and fuck them up or die trying. There is none of this bluebie bullshit that goes on here.

[Lazie]

That was my post. "Benefitted from it" is under the assumption that your location aided your ability to successfully get FTE. It's the same assumption Catherin had to make when she said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I don't know if it helped TMO or if they would have gotten FTE anyways etc etc"

I'm more concerned with the behavior itself and not the specific infraction and/or the gains. I specifically said pattern of behavior for a reason. You can disagree all you want but I'm above the opinion that Catherin shouldn't have to be policing your guild. IB was in the wrong, was told about the rule and they gladly moved away. The TMO response was basically "fuck you, we do what we want" which has been the general opinion of your guild since it's inception.

This pattern of behavior can be seen in the Dinacarl train. "Fuck you, we train if we want" and there next to no repercussions. That's the main issue that I have. Every time your guild bends a rule or fucks IB over in VP you act like it's your god given right to do so and 95% of the time the staff either defends you or it's a slap on the wrist. Every time should be a demerit and those penalties should escalate. Saying that class c (and VP specifically) should expect collateral damage when "competing" for targets because VP is such a complicated zone is bullshit.

You and your guild should be held to the same standards as everyone else. You aren't fucking special, you don't get to stand on a spawn point and Catherin shouldn't have to watch you like a hawk and have multiple instances of fraps proving it to make sure you behave like everyone else. The forum lawyering is nauseating too.

Y'all wonder why none of the class R guilds want to get into class C, it's because of your guilds turns the raid scene into a circus and it's been like that for 4 years. Grow up.

Really...show us where a member of our guild said "fuck you, we do what we want". Please show us where Catherin didn't intentionally scroll his chatbox up to hide what the guy responded to him. As for the Fear train by Dinacarl...You overran a guild already in the zone and are partially to blame for his overreaction. If you had been a courteous member of the server and respected that another guild was in the zone 40 minutes before you zoned in. I doubt anyone would have gotten angry and overreacted.

[Lazie]

You guys are the leaders of the premier guilds. ALL OF YOU, need to be held accountable for the toxicity that underpins our server's raid scene.

Each of you fire of petitions based on false assumptions on a regular basis. And whatever guild is being accused, whether its BDA, Taken, IB, TMO, whoever, is attacked by the rest of the sharks in a way that ignores the truth of things and perpetuates false assumptions.

I do agree however. This has become "a circus and it's been like that for 4 years." The server is fucked up in this regard, and everyone does need to "Grow up." And it starts with you, with catherine, getsome, TMO leaders. You guys are the leaders. You guys need to stop with this petty bull shit.

Dolic

Exactly. It's the leadership that causees 90% of the problems between members of other guilds. I never have a single problem with the average BDA,Taken,Divinity,IB etc. member in game. Then we come to these forums and see the BS spewed in that raid forum to try to gain a leg up because the leadership of the guild has some sort of bone to pick.

[Lazie]

I mean come on Chest. These are the messages you send on the forums trying to put on a nice face.

"We are Class R we don't want to play your game."

"I have honor and ethics"

This is a decision in game I personally saw you make in game that totally contradicts that.

"They were in Fear first, but I don't care zone in and KILL!!!"

Sometime in the near future maybe you want to try to make your actions mirror your words and not seem like a liar.

[Tibador]

Blame the Gm's for the server getting this way if they would have put a stop to this shit 4 years ago maybe the children of this server would have gotten the clue they cant behave like tards.

If you let children behave in a disrespectful manner when they are young they will only be worse when they get older, it started back with IB, Transcendence and Divinity were fighting for mobs and the management let it continue and now its morphed into this shit.

So i don't exactly blame the Guild leaders / officers they are just playing the game the server has allowed.

[Lazie]

Blame the Gm's for the server getting this way if they would have put a stop to this shit 4 years ago maybe the children of this server would have gotten the clue they cant behave like tards.

If you let children behave in a disrespectful manner when they are young they will only be worse when they get older, it started back with IB, Transcendence and Divinity were fighting for mobs and the management let it continue and now its morphed into this shit.

So i don't exactly blame the Guild leaders / officers they are just playing the game the server has allowed.

I just don't understand the complete unwillingness to sit and talk to each other without blowing a gasket and overreacting. Most of the issues come from dealing with Chest and Catherin surprisingly. Part of 2 guilds you would think would want things to be better than this constant petitioning and arguing. The server has been great and RNF dead from Drama for the most part. Look at the last few issues and see who starts it. It's right in there in the raid forum.

;)

[Uuruk]

The really shitty part is GMs waste so much time on you guys acting like little bitches over pixels.

[chief]

When was standing on the spawn point of a mob that hasn't spawned been an issue, if said mob spawns while someone is on the spawn point that is another story. Quit wasting the gm's time, you would think the cheating RL of taken would know the raid rules by now.

[Alarti0001]

I force them all to call me "glorious dead leader."

Anyone who isn't missing part of their brain can see how things really go down on this server. I'm outspoken and not very fond of TMO, there's been multiple instances where they've wronged me and my guild.

Every other guild goes through this process with TMO whether it was FE (who joined them for the pixels) to Taken or even someone tinier like Asgard. You get in the way of TMO pixels and you'll get the full treatment. You'll get the spies in your guildchat and forums, you'll get the spin cycle on RnF, you'll get the blatant lies and badmouthing, and even when you catch them doing something completely heinous unless you have 4 different fraps at 4 different angles with complete logs timestamps and R Kelly's mom saying "ya that's my boy Robert, always peeing on bitches" it will only end in some slap on the wrist.

ITT Spin post about others spin posts? K

[Alarti0001]

Dude, fuck this place. Sirken and Deru letting TMO shit on everyone for years ruined it.

Come to Archeage and be a pirate! Tahyang server.

Someone starts some beef, you just go on ahead and fuck them up or die trying. There is none of this bluebie bullshit that goes on here.

Archeage is boring as shit.

[holsteinrx7]

make class C PVP and forget FFA. class R and C only. C truely competitive. /thread

[Glitterati]

guys, guys, guys, GUYS.....I got a golden Sylvanas Windrunner last night for my Hearthstone deck!

[Tann]

Shhhhhhhhhh....

http://i.imgur.com/rsTwxwQ.gif

[toolshed]

Love how TMO acts like these hard asses but they need the GMs to spoon feed VP to them or they fucking cry hahah

[Servellious]

Love how TMO acts like these hard asses but they need the GMs to spoon feed VP to them or they fucking cry hahah

Is this guy delusional? Who is the ones crying for gm's to give them more welfare ebt cards

[toolshed]

Is this guy delusional? Who is the ones crying for gm's to give them more welfare ebt cards

Am I mistaken? GMs locking every other guild out of VP other than TMO/IG isn't favoritism??

[Heebo]

guys, guys, guys, GUYS.....I got a golden Sylvanas Windrunner last night for my Hearthstone deck!

Already saw your FB update, nerd

[SyanideGas]

Lol, this thread.

[mropey]

Best part is its a dude pretending to be a woman.

Lmfao!

[Susano]

Am I mistaken? GMs locking every other guild out of VP other than TMO/IG isn't favoritism??

Class R's lack of ambition is all that's keeping them out of VP, nothing to do with GM's.

In fact, the GM's *GAVE* Class R the keys to VP literally when they included Trakanon in the Class R spawn cycle.

The only reason a Class R guild hasn't tried to break into VP is because they are afraid of losing their easy loots, the whole time accusing Class C of being the ones loot hungry.

If Class C was really as loot hungry as you guys think, some of us would have already made a Class R guild and wrecked your shit and destroyed the rotation. That hasn't happened simply because the assumption that Class C are pixel obsessed monsters is off base. CLASS C IS JUST A PLAY STYLE GUYS, STOP PERSECUTING US!

[Glitterati]

Already saw your FB update, nerd

<3 u!!

[Servellious]

Am I mistaken? GMs locking every other guild out of VP other than TMO/IG isn't favoritism??

The only favortism is gm's allowing guilds to play T-ball.

[central scrutinizer]

As far as VP, Class R needs to stay out. The skill level required to pull the zone and not have the literal whole zone kill everyone is a little higher than I'd feel comfortable entrusting with casual guilds in a competitive environment.

Just to play devil's advocate...casual/hardcore raiding is probably not any real indication of skill on p99. I myself just play here to do quests I never did on live, and find groups to run up the slacker dps classes I never got to play from 1-60 in the zones that I love and I have no interest (or time) for getting back into raiding (I play for like 2 hours tops in a sitting, if that).

But I pulled the hell out of VP when it was new and a lack of infinite alt armies and (timely) cs involvement made for much higher stakes (also our concerns for contesting went far beyond simply establishing FTE). I could probably still do it in my sleep. Especially with so many CS safety nets protecting me from my opposition, which I never ever saw happen on live, no matter whose pile was getting camped.

There are probably tons of folks on p99 who choose to play casually but do possess the knowledge from live to do everything that you do on p99. Probably far better, because they came up without benefits such as the massive alt armies that p99 has due to it being free and account trading/sharing being allowed for so long, and of course the fact that there is no new ground to break, nobody has to learn as they go, they can just head over to google and find out everything. And technical considerations of course. I imagine raids go a lot smoother here now that pretty much anybody with a remotely modern machine will never have to do things like look at the ground all raid, which was a thing that some people had to do on live.

It's not exactly new content. And vp as it stands on p99 with train rules being enforced and such is probably a pale shadow of real cutthroat vp from live, or even old p99.

[Prismaticshop]

Catherin spotted on liveleak

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=33a_1413938972

[arsenalpow]

You guys are the leaders of the premier guilds. ALL OF YOU, need to be held accountable for the toxicity that underpins our server's raid scene.

Each of you fire of petitions based on false assumptions on a regular basis. And whatever guild is being accused, whether its BDA, Taken, IB, TMO, whoever, is attacked by the rest of the sharks in a way that ignores the truth of things and perpetuates false assumptions.

I do agree however. This has become "a circus and it's been like that for 4 years." The server is fucked up in this regard, and everyone does need to "Grow up." And it starts with you, with catherine, getsome, TMO leaders. You guys are the leaders. You guys need to stop with this petty bull shit.

Dolic

I'm about done with this thread, but here's my thoughts on your rebuttal.

The raid scene toxicity that underpins this server is a byproduct of a raiding style that was developed at the genesis of p99 and continues thrive today in class C guilds. You're saying every guild leader should be cognizant of this an do what they can to reduce this toxicity right? Class R has been doing this. We've done it for almost a year now.

What would stop BDA and Taken from killing every 3rd Trakanon or VS that comes through Class R? We could be creating an arms race in Class R but we're not. More good has come from the class R rotation than anything else ever has on this server. I believe in a harmonious raid scene and I've put my money where my mouth is.

When TMO was suspended years ago we opened up content for the masses. We think that's how raiding should be. Not stomping over every tiny guild for the thrill of the hunt whether you need the loot or not. Not saying "oh even though that guild has 40 people there let's see if we can rush in and snake it out from under them" as opposed to maybe having some honor deciding that maybe it's not cool to leapfrog 40 people.

You want to talk petty? Our last petitions against TMO were for the Dinacarl train. That's the last issue I can think of that we actively pursued against your guild. Petty is more inline with Unbrella browbeating Derubael until he cracked and issued BDA a Class R Nagafen suspension over an FFA incident even after Sirken said the entire issue was already resolved. That's petty.

I'm doing everything I personally can do to help foster a less toxic raid environment regardless of the daily slings and arrows that are lobbed at me and my guild on the daily. If you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you. I'm doing my part. If you want to make changes look no further than IB and TMO leadership.

[Sckrilla]

Damn, it's all so clear now! You truly are the savior of P99, Chest! I completely understand now. Thank you for all you have done for the raiding scene and Class R guilds alike!

[arsenalpow]

Damn, it's all so clear now! You truly are the savior of P99, Chest! I completely understand now. Thank you for all you have done for the raiding scene and Class R guilds alike!

Thank you for your snarky response. Dolic wants change, I explained my mindset and the actions I've taken to help bring that change to the server. This isn't about being a savior, and I'm not, every guild (and their leadership) that adheres to the rotation is doing their part to change the culture but the upper echelons of raiding are still cutthroat and vicious just like it was 4 years ago.

The main point of contention is where C and R overlap. Our disparate mindsets are forced to coexist and drama happens. Keep the current ruleset and eliminate the FFA portion with full repops being the FFA option. It would help the health of this server massively.

[Cecily]

I think the server's health is fantastic compared to what it was previously. A-team has epics, you know?

[Susvain2]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. AM I ON CRAZY PILLS

DEAR CATHERIN AND CHEST

if TMO member was on Sev spawn point and Sev spawned - TMO would have been suspended/forfeited the mob

BUT, the member moved and was with everyone else in the correct spot when Sev spawned. So NO HARM = NO FOUL. what the fuck how is this thread so long how are you two this insane. What is hard to understand. Holy fuck. No one in TMO is trying to get over on ya'll by standing on Sev spawn point, that person would get reprimanded and in trouble, and would cost the guild more trouble than killing Sev is worth

[arsenalpow]

I think the server's health is fantastic compared to what it was previously. A-team has epics, you know?

I'm not sure if that's the barometer of server health but it's a start. Everyone getting to experience content is a good thing.

[Susvain2]

holy fucking nerds.

listen, essentially we (staff) are saying the same thing. if nothing pops i obviously dont care where people are, because no harm no foul. but if the mob pops and you have trackernerds on the spawn spot, their trackernerd will/should get aggro, and as such they would be breaking the "trackers can't FTE" rule.

its really getting ridiculous the way some of you are picking apart staff posts to benefit yourselves. all of the raiding guilds need to stop trying to game the system and play the game within the rules, or you're gonna have a bad time.

<3
Sirks

oh look! Sirken had said basically the same exact thing as i had said! This was truly insane on Catherin to rule lawyer this. Made no sense. This Catherin creature needs to have "its" head examined

[Derubael]

Petty is more inline with Unbrella browbeating Derubael until he cracked and issued BDA a Class R Nagafen suspension over an FFA incident even after Sirken said the entire issue was already resolved. That's petty.

I am convinced you continue to phrase this way to intentionally drive me insane. Sirken not only helped to set up this meeting, helping to choose a date and time as well as being on the phone with Unbrella when we made the decision to attempt to mediate their dispute, and was also present for the entire discussion, being an integral part of the final decision to remove BDA from a RNagafen. Clearly being "browbeaten" when we are asked all of one time to set this up while working out another dispute involving TMO.

For the sake of my sanity please refrain from incorrectly conveying these events in the future.

[Sckrilla]

That spinculture tho!

[runlvlzero]

I think this could be all solved by spawning an NPC named Carson Mccabe at each encounter and all participants would need to pay 10,000 RMT points (pp peices) to the NPC for a lotto ticket. Then he would despawn and 'a dealer' would spawn and they would each turn in their lotto tickets (each ticket would have a unique #) and the one ticket that won would dictate which guild gets to engage the merbs and there would be a despawn of 'a dealer' and then a 10 minute countdown which would allow the other guilds time to gtfotw before engaging the merbs.

[Susvain2]

So, to recap this morning

I roflpwn Chest,
Derubael roflstomps Chest,

Chest if you come to RNF ya gonna have a bad time

[Lazie]

I am convinced you continue to phrase this way to intentionally drive me insane. Sirken not only helped to set up this meeting, helping to choose a date and time as well as being on the phone with Unbrella when we made the decision to attempt to mediate their dispute, and was also present for the entire discussion, being an integral part of the final decision to remove BDA from a RNagafen. Clearly being "browbeaten" when we are asked all of one time to set this up while working out another dispute involving TMO.

For the sake of my sanity please refrain from incorrectly conveying these events in the future.

It's Chest. The guy will hold a grudge that isn't real about that for another 2 years.

[Lazie]

Thank you for your snarky response. Dolic wants change, I explained my mindset and the actions I've taken to help bring that change to the server. This isn't about being a savior, and I'm not, every guild (and their leadership) that adheres to the rotation is doing their part to change the culture but the upper echelons of raiding are still cutthroat and vicious just like it was 4 years ago.

The main point of contention is where C and R overlap. Our disparate mindsets are forced to coexist and drama happens. Keep the current ruleset and eliminate the FFA portion with full repops being the FFA option. It would help the health of this server massively.

You really are not the expert on what Class C raiding is. Hearsay is not the same as being a part of. You literally have not one iota what it's like because you simply sit on the sideline and moan about what other people do without actually knowing what they do. It does lead to comical anecdotes when you attempt to explain it though.

[Lazie]

And as I told you guys 2 days ago when this thread started. There was never a rule that stopped non-kos mages from standing right on top of spawns. The rule was always trackers can't FTE and Pull.

[khanable]

Class R can you please stop being crybaby jerkoffs over every "what if" encounter

It would make me feel a lot better about logging into the game

Thanks

[Derubael]

Am I mistaken? GMs locking every other guild out of VP other than TMO/IG isn't favoritism??

nvm chest, sanity just went out the window, don't bother. not worth saving at this point.

[Cecily]

I'm not sure if that's the barometer of server health but it's a start. Everyone getting to experience content is a good thing.

I absolutely agree. What we have going is good enough to carry us into Velious. I understand you feel differently, but you and the people you represent have solid options now that didn't exist before. Players don't have to feel like their only options to raid are signing up with my guild or IB. I was speaking with a low 50s ranger today in a class R guild who was pretty optimistic about his odds of getting the next VS stone. I'm happy for him and hope he gets it soon. That guy wouldn't have had any hope in the old TMO dominated raid scene, and I woulda just felt bad for him and guilty for helping to keep things that way.

I don't know what I'm trying to say here besides it's such a far cry from what it was previously that it's hard for me to imagine how class R has any complaints. Your system is slower and it seems like you're trying for a bigger slice of the pie. Rotating what is now FFA would be a net gain for class R. It's looking after your people's best interests, I understand. But it'll never be enough, no matter how much you get. 100% of the kills isn't enough, believe me I know. The system is not perfect, but you're raiding on a consistent basis now and I'm glad for that. I hope you are too.

[runlvlzero]

I'm am an absolute saintly saintess and you should be a grateful class R persona, you ingrate.

http://i.imgur.com/oaERvZo.jpg

[Cecily]

Is what I was trying to say, ty.

[FindCorpse]

I wish I had 4 hands so I could give this thread 4 thumbs down. I wonder why we can't accomplish anything as a community? This hardcore VS casual arguments been going on for years sounds like some of you guys need to hug it out. Grab a snickers because there are a bunch of divas up in here. /doublefacepalm

[Lazie]

nvm chest, sanity just went out the window, don't bother. not worth saving at this point.

I sent you a PM with a question if you find time to look at it.

[Cecily]

I'm *trying* to hug it out with Chest and you're sticking your rotten taken nose into it. It's not about casual vs hardcore. It's about the unchecked animosity between TMO and lesser guilds, like yours. You should really try to be nicer to us.

[Uuruk]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT. AM I ON CRAZY PILLS

DEAR CATHERIN AND CHEST

if TMO member was on Sev spawn point and Sev spawned - TMO would have been suspended/forfeited the mob

BUT, the member moved and was with everyone else in the correct spot when Sev spawned. So NO HARM = NO FOUL. what the fuck how is this thread so long how are you two this insane. What is hard to understand. Holy fuck. No one in TMO is trying to get over on ya'll by standing on Sev spawn point, that person would get reprimanded and in trouble, and would cost the guild more trouble than killing Sev is worth

Hey buddy, it's just a game calm down. Go outside maybe or adopt a pet.

[Alarti0001]

Am I mistaken? GMs locking every other guild out of VP other than TMO/IG isn't favoritism??

You are mistaken. Any other guild can become class C and join in the VP fun.
Derp?

[Alarti0001]

I am convinced you continue to phrase this way to intentionally drive me insane. Sirken not only helped to set up this meeting, helping to choose a date and time as well as being on the phone with Unbrella when we made the decision to attempt to mediate their dispute, and was also present for the entire discussion, being an integral part of the final decision to remove BDA from a RNagafen. Clearly being "browbeaten" when we are asked all of one time to set this up while working out another dispute involving TMO.

For the sake of my sanity please refrain from incorrectly conveying these events in the future.

So basically you are saying Chest is spinning details? Oh I'm surprised.

[kotton05]

Chest you're biting the hand that feeds. We're all playing the same game here. Sirk and deru both rule pretty fair and do their best (although I may not be happy sometimes with it). With that said, we once had a talk (our guild liaisons and GM's) about frivilous petitions and how to settle amongst ourselves. TMO really tried to do that. Then we found to that over time even when we settled disputes with IB they would still petition us. It was close to a petition ratio of 3 IB to every 1 TMO petition iirc. So now we're forced to petition but we reluctantly filed stupid ones with fear of what the GM's said about wasting their time...

Now with that said... Is being punished for stupid petitions from raid guilds out of the question? If there was punishment that involved that I'm sure people would think long and hard about filing one or fabricating something like this. IB is great at filing 10 petitions in hopes one sticks. I wish I knew the GM's exact thoughts on filing petty claims...


TL:DR Chest youre a lost cause. Catherine is a fabricator. The raid scene is doomed without some sort of case study or rules against stupid petitions.

[Fael]

Chest, i actually appreciate the sincerety in your responses.

I suppose what I really am reacting to is the modus operandi of the raid leaders on the raid forum. All it takes is one person to make a shady accusation that is not rooted in reality... And then the rest of the community jumps in on the attack, calling for suspensions without any regard to what really happened.

That said, to some degree Catherine actually was doing a good job helping self police the raid scene by telling ib and TMO to back up out of range. She is not requires to do it, but it's necessary. This is something raid leaders do all the time, such as when guild members have been leveling past the zone line when trak and vs are in widow. Call it preventative measures. To some extent that's your job--you guys helped craft these rules, and seemingly propose new ones on a daily basis.

As I've said before, you don't have to do it. Let TMO screw up and get suspended. But what is absolutely crazy is the idea that you can take a fraps of something that occurred at the beginning of a window, something that was fixed, and then use it as a basis for a suspension after the fact, particularly when no raid interference occurred. That is a form of rule lawyering that should be frowned upon by te community and not supported with open arms.

Dolic

[arsenalpow]

I am convinced you continue to phrase this way to intentionally drive me insane. Sirken not only helped to set up this meeting, helping to choose a date and time as well as being on the phone with Unbrella when we made the decision to attempt to mediate their dispute, and was also present for the entire discussion, being an integral part of the final decision to remove BDA from a RNagafen. Clearly being "browbeaten" when we are asked all of one time to set this up while working out another dispute involving TMO.

For the sake of my sanity please refrain from incorrectly conveying these events in the future.

Ok let's break this down. First, a timeline of the pertinent events.

1) 6/8/14 (give or take a day) Nagafen dies to Taken. BDA ran in with about 10 people at around 15% or something to get some hits in. Taken and BDA were of the opinion that Naggy was going down no matter what. TMO was of the opinion that Taken was wiping and by BDA assisting it cost them an attempt on Nagafen assuming Taken would have wiped.

Unbrella immediately files a petition saying as much. The official violation in his mind was that since BDA had trackers there and Taken had trackers there so once BDA assisted (regardless of the circumstances) BDA/Taken became a combined raidforce thus violating the more than two tracker rule.

As an insight to that incident, I wasn’t there. I didn’t make the call to go in and beat on Naggy, but from the officer present the entire thing was done as a goof on our side. The intent wasn’t “omg Taken is wiping, let’s make sure TMO doesn’t get dem pixels” even if was being spun like that. Whatever, let’s move on.


2) 6/14/14 (give or take a day) The infamous Dinacarl incident. This incident led to Sirken having a conversation with all the class R guild leaders separately (probably a week later or so) to discuss if GT was unfairly drummed out of the rotation. GT imploded soon after the incident because they had some very inept leadership. Class R did everything in our power to help them acclimate to the system.

During Sirken's conversation with me (that lasted nearly 2 hours) the topic of Unbrella's Nagafen petition came up. Sirken assured me it was a non issue and that it was case closed.


3) 7/29/14 TMO eats a VP raid suspension from an IB petition that dated back to May. TMO is obviously upset because they felt blindsided by it and I don’t blame them, I’d be pissed too.


4) 8/15/14 Derubael PMs me about a pending petition from TMO

Between points 3 and 4 TMO was going into full PetitionQuest mode. The staff had a fundamental shift as to how they were dealing with the petition system so Unbrella was making sure any and every possible petition that hadn’t been answered was going to get answered. TMO felt slighted by the way the IB petition against them was handled (rightfully so) so any old petitions that had been dismissed were being resurrected so the full scope of each incident could be analyzed and the new staff stance could be applied just like the IB petition.


Here’s the conversation between Derubael and I. Things got relatively heated because I was on vacation and I had felt lied to by Sirken at this point. Derubael and I don’t really get along lol…

I'm being told that TMO has an outstanding petition against BDA/Taken. Since it's gone unresolved, we need a BDA representative to come sit down with myself, Sirken, Unbrella, and a Taken rep.

I'm not sure of the exact specifics. The BDA rep doesn't have to be you if you don't want to deal with this - just as long as it's someone with the authority to make a decision without needing to check with anyone.

Sirken and I are only there as moderators. We refuse to get involved in any capacity beyond that.

Let me know what a good time is for you/your rep. We'd like to get this resolved this weekend.

I have no information on this outstanding petition.

Neither do I - but we're all going to sit down and hash it out regardless. They feel they have a legitimate claim and that needs to be addressed. What is a good time for you or your rep?

I don't want to send a rep to anything without information as to what it's about. The only thing I can think of is a Nagafen dispute from months ago where we finished off a kill Taken had FTE on without any coordination with Taken. Sirken 100% assured me via a conversation in our vent that the issue was closed, so give me more information and if it's legit I'll send a rep but I don't enjoy being summoned up on a whim over a dead issue that the head server GM said was closed just because Unbrella thinks he can strongarm us in a sitdown.

I'm on the phone with the head server GM right now and we both agree this needs to be dealt with. I believe it is the situation you outlined with Nagafen and helping taken to down the target. We need a rep from BDA or we will just assume you guys are acquiescing to whatever TMO wants as a resolution. Since that's dumb, it would be great if you would send someone.

As a side note, when I send a PM asking for your cooperation as it relates to p99 I expect those requests to be followed. I don't want to have to be dealing with this in the first place and neither does Sirken so we'd appreciate some cooperation when being given a reasonable request. I wouldn't be bringing something up without consulting with my associate first anyway.

Let us know when you have time or a representative has time to sit down and go over this. Neither of us has done a thorough review of the situation - that's up to you guys as players to look at and come to an agreement on.

I want to Sirken to send me a PM stating that we're being called to the carpet on an issue that he said to me personally that was resolved. If you want to talk to someone hop in BDA and find an officer. Sadad and cucs are in the loop.

I don't know what your issue is with me, or why you feel the need to constantly be difficult, but I'm tired of it. We have enough to do without you adding to that workload. I've done my best in the past few months to show you respect and have been met with nothing but resistance and difficulty.

Sirken will not be sending you a PM. You are being asked by a GM to attend a meeting with the senior server CSR staff and the guilds in question. If you have any reservations about that, you can ask Sirken about it yourself. Until then, you will follow instructions given to you by any member of the CSR staff, including the Guides. If you don't like that, you can take it up with Rogean. I know he loves it when players don't follow simple and reasonable instructions given to players by the CSR staff.

As BDA's guild leader I shouldn't need to contact anyone else in your guild about this. You can either send a rep or not - it makes no difference to me. But if you are unable to be present or unwilling to attend, BDA will not get a say in what happens to them, and will need to rely on Taken to negotiate for them.

If you'd like to be difficult, I can be difficult as well. The next time you refuse to follow instructions given to you by any member of the CSR staff, we'll suspend your account. It's unacceptable for you to treat the staff this way.

As always, if you have a problem with any of this, you are welcome to copy and paste it to Rogean. I've done my best to work with you and try to put whatever bad blood we had between us in the past to rest, but if you want to continue being an ass I'm happy to enforce every rule we have regarding treatment of CSR staff.

We're expecting an answer in the next day or two. That should be plenty of time to find a rep and a time.

I'm not in fucking town and I'm not being fucking difficult. Look at this from my perspective. I had a two hour conversation with Sirken, this was when he was interrogating people after the GT fiasco. I was told by Sirken that this matter was HANDLED. The fact that I cannot get confirmation from Sirken and am instead being told different by you is disconcerting at best and completely frustrating at worst.

I feel like Unbrella asked Dad to handle this issue and Sirken told him it wasn't a valid petition so Unbrella then Unbrella went behind dads back to ask Mom (you) to handle it and here we are.

I don't have a problem with you individually and with all the issues I've had with Sirken he at least treats me with a modicum of respect and doesn't say "show up or forfeit" so I want to confirm this through Sirken. I want him to tell me he's going back on his word that he gave to me.


I have no idea what went on between you and Sirken. He has told me this issue wasn't resolved. Regardless, if I ask for a BDA rep to be present for a raid dispute, I don't want to be argued with. I have enough to deal with as it is. You can give me a time that works for your rep, or put me in contact with the person you would like to represent you. If you have a separate issue to take up with Sirken, do that on your own time - my only interest is getting this set up and out of the way.

So I'd like Sirken to confirm that then. A GM gave me his word. I want it confirmed.

Great. Then we will schedule this without BDA present.

So when can I speak with Sirken?



At this hearing (that I didn’t attend, Sadad did) we adamantly stressed that there was no collaboration between us and Taken. Our actions were of our own volition and we had no contact with Taken nor was any loot shared. Taken was dismissed. Derubael said that he and Sirken were only going to moderate the discussion, it ended up being Derubael/Sirken handing down a punishment because obviously BDA and TMO were never going to see eye to eye on situation. I don’t believe there were any fraps of screenshots of BDA and Taken trackers holding hands tracking together. I don’t think it would have mattered anyways because we were going to be guilty regardless. Even though this was an FFA encounter Derubael/Sirken decided to use the leverage of the rotation to implement our punishment which was to be suspended from our next Class R Nagafen in the rotation slot, which incidentally just came to pass. So this Nagafen incident happened in early June, we were suspended from our Nagafen rotation slot that just came up in mid October so maybe we’ll see Nagafen again around Christmas. A solid 4 month suspension.



The point of this wall of text is to illustrate the differences in the way that the staff handles class C versus class R guilds. Everyone knows Sirken and Derubael prefer the class C mindset, this was evident during the initial class meetings. It’s not like they despise class R, but it’s the same reason why they ask in their podcasts “I wonder why no one moves to class C, all these benefits, etc etc” and to date more class R guilds have been suspended than class C guilds. That’s obviously because there’s more class R guilds but it’s also because that’s just how the punishments have fallen. Even when ALL of class R agreed that Azure Guard shouldn’t have been suspended due to the raid sheet not functioning nothing was done about it. In class C IB and TMO just give mobs up back and forth on a weekly basis. Oh you trained us on this Nexona attempt, you get the next one with no competition, everything is cool now right? I don’t think it’s legislated fairly across the board and that needs to change.

TLDR – mew mew mew class R class C blah blah blah

[FindCorpse]

All I am saying here is seems like same old people interested in personally attacking others rather than constructively criticizing and accomplishing some sort of goal. I am so casual on this server now I am a non factor. Cecily you know I haven't stuck my dirty rotten taken nose in anything that's a generalization. Rants and flames is for entertainment value only, if you want to try to make changes you all know where to make the posts. Your leadership and our leadership can work things out just not in this forum.

[khanable]

As I've said before, you don't have to do it. Let TMO screw up and get suspended. But what is absolutely crazy is the idea that you can take a fraps of something that occurred at the beginning of a window, something that was fixed, and then use it as a basis for a suspension after the fact, particularly when no raid interference occurred. That is a form of rule lawyering that should be frowned upon by te community and not supported with open arms.

http://myreactiongifs.com/gifs/thumbsupcomputerkid.gif

[kotton05]

Your sense of entitlement is thru the roof, why can't you be like ok I'll figure it out and get a level head rep or you to go... Biting the hand that feeds... Sounds like derubael really gave you a chance.

[ManosMan]

I have no information on this outstanding petition.
You are such an unbelievable piece of work that you would quote yourself saying this as a first response and think it makes you look good. Then immediately after, "I don't wanna send a rep" and "but I don't enjoy being summoned up on a whim". What an attitude you have...

[arsenalpow]

So I mostly agree with you Dolic but let's try this hypothetical. Let's assume TMO is on the spawnpoint and gets FTE by the usual means. They either get to keep the loot because the Mage was factioned and the staff changes the scope of their statement or it's deemed illegal and the loot is destroyed. Doesn't it behoove Catherin and Taken to police this kind of thing to make sure the loot isn't destroyed and their time isn't wasted? I'd assume the solution would be that TMO is skipped in the next FFA Sev if it were a violation but it doesn't reimburse the time spent working on that kill.

Just curious, and be honest, in let's say the past 3 months how many times have TMO and IB resolved an incident by saying "ok we'll skip the next dragon because we fucked up this time"

[Prismaticshop]

Chest was beaten by his dad or what ? What's up with this freak lol

[Llodd]

Lol fucking holy hell.

The level of disrespect to GM's is through the roof.

[Cecily]

All I am saying here is seems like same old people interested in personally attacking others rather than constructively criticizing and accomplishing some sort of goal. I am so casual on this server now I am a non factor. Cecily you know I haven't stuck my dirty rotten taken nose in anything that's a generalization. Rants and flames is for entertainment value only, if you want to try to make changes you all know where to make the posts. Your leadership and our leadership can work things out just not in this forum.

I was kidding. I do maintain that the raid scene is fine, it's just the people in it who suck. We all need to grow up and stop hating on one another and trying to screw each other over with petitions. Imagine if all guilds lost the hostile attitude, would be a completely different feel to the server.

[kotton05]

So I mostly agree with you Dolic but let's try this hypothetical. Let's assume TMO is on the spawnpoint and gets FTE by the usual means. They either get to keep the loot because the Mage was factioned and the staff changes the scope of their statement or it's deemed illegal and the loot is destroyed. Doesn't it behoove Catherin and Taken to police this kind of thing to make sure the loot isn't destroyed and their time isn't wasted? I'd assume the solution would be that TMO is skipped in the next FFA Sev if it were a violation but it doesn't reimburse the time spent working on that kill.

Just curious, and be honest, in let's say the past 3 months how many times have TMO and IB resolved an incident by saying "ok we'll skip the next dragon because we fucked up this time"

We've skipped the next spawn more than you know. It sucks but we don't have to wait months to see it spawn again...

Also taken clearly violated the FTE rule and ruined a FFA sev yet nothing was done about it. Now taken is trying to rule lawyer and police stuff.... Smh.

[FindCorpse]

I was kidding. I do maintain that the raid scene is fine, it's just the people in it who suck. We all need to grow up and stop hating on one another and trying to screw each other over with petitions. Imagine if all guilds lost the hostile attitude, would be a completely different feel to the server.

I have literally been saying that for years, look at my old username Deneauth you will see lol. I am an old timer on this server now I have seen some shit and to be completely honest even though its not perfect this is the healthiest I have ever seen the raid scene on this server. I still like the idea of class R class C rotation with a full FFA on repop with a bag limit of some kind. VP personally doesn't interest me at all I truly don't have the time right now to complete my key.

[ManosMan]

Imagine if all guilds lost the hostile attitude, would be a completely different feel to the server.
No kidding? I'm sure I'm not the only case of a good raider checking out this server, getting close to 60, scoping out the forums to see which guild looks good and then never logging in to the actual game again. What the hell is the point? I could hit 60, apply to a 'class C' guild with a link to a phone app called "Apply to BDA" where you tap around catching flying dicks in your mouth, and get loot handed to me at the price of my soul, or I could apply and join an unambitious 'class R' guild who seems very content eating monthly scraps that fall from the government cheese platter.

I'd rather play red.............

[ManosMan]

http://i.imgur.com/KHrYwJr.gif

[Walth]

No kidding? I'm sure I'm not the only case of a good raider checking out this server, getting close to 60, scoping out the forums to see which guild looks good and then never logging in to the actual game again. What the hell is the point? I could hit 60, apply to a 'class C' guild with a link to a phone app called "Apply to BDA" where you tap around catching flying dicks in your mouth, and get loot handed to me at the price of my soul, or I could apply and join an unambitious 'class R' guild who seems very content eating monthly scraps that fall from the government cheese platter.

I'd rather play red.............


While I don't have a desire to play on red, I am approaching level 60 and have been looking for a guild.

The crap between this post and the raid post being referred to has completely turned me off to several guilds I thought at first may be a good fit.

[FindCorpse]

No kidding? I'm sure I'm not the only case of a good raider checking out this server, getting close to 60, scoping out the forums to see which guild looks good and then never logging in to the actual game again. What the hell is the point? I could hit 60, apply to a 'class C' guild with a link to a phone app called "Apply to BDA" where you tap around catching flying dicks in your mouth, and get loot handed to me at the price of my soul, or I could apply and join an unambitious 'class R' guild who seems very content eating monthly scraps that fall from the government cheese platter.

I'd rather play red.............

Sums up my original post

http://i59.tinypic.com/15bzuu.jpg

Lol i love that meme

[FindCorpse]

While I don't have a desire to play on red, I am approaching level 60 and have been looking for a guild.

The crap between this post and the raid post being referred to has completely turned me off to several guilds I thought at first may be a good fit.

I got to head to work but to your post Walth I can say I truly understand why you would feel this way. Our server has become top heavy and there are some very, very competitive raiders on this server. The only advice I have is try a few different guilds out and see which group of people you enjoying playing and hanging out with the most. There are a lot of really nice people in all the guilds!

[Man0warr]

I don't know what I'm trying to say here besides it's such a far cry from what it was previously that it's hard for me to imagine how class R has any complaints. Your system is slower and it seems like you're trying for a bigger slice of the pie. Rotating what is now FFA would be a net gain for class R. It's looking after your people's best interests, I understand. But it'll never be enough, no matter how much you get. 100% of the kills isn't enough, believe me I know. The system is not perfect, but you're raiding on a consistent basis now and I'm glad for that. I hope you are too.

Chest (and other class R Leaders) don't want to get rid of the FFA spawn (except for repops/sim repops) because it will get Class R slightly more loot (~17%). They want to get rid of it so that Class R and Class C never have to interact at all.

How many petitions and RNF drama would be curtailed if Class R and Class C never had to fight over mobs? You guys have your spawns and all of VP, and Class R has theirs. It's such a huge boon to the GM staff I can't believe they haven't considered it at this point.

Class C doesn't want to get rid of FFA because it's 17% more loot to Class R (actually less than that as Class R gets some percentage of FFA pops). That and maybe they secretly like fucking over Class R guilds, causing drama, and RNFing.

[Aviann]

Chest (and other class R Leaders) don't want to get rid of the FFA spawn (except for repops/sim repops) because it will get Class R slightly more loot (~17%). They want to get rid of it so that Class R and Class C never have to interact at all.

How many petitions and RNF drama would be curtailed if Class R and Class C never had to fight over mobs? You guys have your spawns and all of VP, and Class R has theirs. It's such a huge boon to the GM staff I can't believe they haven't considered it at this point.

Class C doesn't want to get rid of FFA because it's 17% more loot to Class R (actually less than that as Class R gets some percentage of FFA pops). That and maybe they secretly like fucking over Class R guilds, causing drama, and RNFing.

BUT HOW WOULD THEY GEAR THEIR ALTS?!

[Heebo]

Chest (and other class R Leaders) don't want to get rid of the FFA spawn (except for repops/sim repops) because it will get Class R slightly more loot (~17%). They want to get rid of it so that Class R and Class C never have to interact at all.

How many petitions and RNF drama would be curtailed if Class R and Class C never had to fight over mobs? You guys have your spawns and all of VP, and Class R has theirs. It's such a huge boon to the GM staff I can't believe they haven't considered it at this point.

Class C doesn't want to get rid of FFA because it's 17% more loot to Class R (actually less than that as Class R gets some percentage of FFA pops). That and maybe they secretly like fucking over Class R guilds, causing drama, and RNFing.

Ok then let's make the FFA cycle class C. Mobs will now be C, C, R - no more FFA, more loot to class C but R doesn't care about the extra loot. Win win.

[knix]

/ducks

I cannot believe what Chest is posting. GM disrespect, No concept of what he did to GT, no responsibility for his own actions.
TMO tried to work with whoever was at that naggy raid that day, got no where, there was a clear violation by your team, instead of taking like a man, and own up to the mistake. You played the blame game. I was there that day there was no BDA running in at 15percent, you ran in when taken was failing, while naggy was winning vs taken. Ran past our assembled raid who was waiting for Taken to pull it together or die, so we could engage cleanly after reset. It would have been BDA vs TMO for a clean engage after reset, instead your team ran in to "help" taken. but . if joint raid.. you both had trackers, so liar liar.

And yes you blackballed GT. You even brow beat them for having anything to do with TMO, simply sharing Fear that day with TMO was guilt by association or some shit because you told them to not have anything to do with TMO , like TMO was the Teenage boy with the van outside, and you were the Father looking at his 18 year old daughter, threatening her to stay away from that boy!!!

OMG disrespect to Derubael and Sirken is out the roof. OMG.

I want to understand, why are BDA members staying in BDA dealing with Chest. You all have a thing about being ruled by an overlord?

[Ravager]

They want to get rid of it so that Class R and Class C never have to interact at all.

I think this is the point GMs can't wrap their heads around. The reason there's 10 guilds sharing the R mobs is the same reason there's 1k+ population on the blue server and 200+ on the red server at peaks. Only the minority want to play the game cut-throat.

[Man0warr]

I want to understand, why are BDA members staying in BDA dealing with Chest. You all have a thing about being ruled by an overlord?

Because no one wants to be guilded with an old whore who types like a 9 year old.

[kotton05]

Because no one wants to be guilded with an old whore who types like a 9 year old.

Rustled? Cuz I'm sure insulting grammar is the last resort of someone who's wrong on the internet.

[Ravager]

Rustled? Cuz I'm sure insulting grammar is the last resort of someone who's wrong on the internet.

The same could be said about telling someone they're rustled. Just sayin'.

[kotton05]

True~_~

[Man0warr]

I'm so rustled.

[Derubael]

. Derubael and I don’t really get along lol…

naw we get along just fine, whatchu talkin about?

I was not serious when I made this post:

nvm chest, sanity just went out the window, don't bother. not worth saving at this point.

But since you really, really want to see me totally lose it this morning, I'll simply point out three things:

1) Nothing in your post disproves anything I said. Unbrella's petition was literally ignored for a ridiculous amount of time, at which point it was finally addressed in a Skype call with Myself, Sirken, and Unbrella, where a mediation was requested. i don't know if Sirken was even fully aware of what he was telling you not to worry about during your conversation together - and yes, I can see why having this brought back up months later may have frustrated you - but the fact remains that you had both GM's agreeing to mediate for the TMO dispute against BDA

2) We have few viable options when "forced" to discipline Class R guilds when a dispute cannot be mediated by players, due to the way Class R rotates mobs. If we tak away, say, the next FFA Nagafen.... there's no real punishment there - we have no idea if you would have even gone after that target to begin with. So we are more or less forced to take away a rotation mob if it becomes necessary to address a situation that way. To be perfectly honest I am very thankful that you guys in Class-R rarely have conflicts like this that need to be escalated to that level, as they seem to be more difficult to find a fair and appropriate punishment for a violation.

To close this out, your last statement, while perfectly legitimate from your point of view, lacks the full picture required to truly make that judgement. Any bias that you may have thought was present is a combination of growing pains from the raid scene transition combined with biased perception of events - don't take that to be an insult, almost everyone carries some kind of bias, especially without having access to any of the Class C disputes - where mobs are forfeited all the time to compensate for infractions. I think that over time it will become clear we are really striving for fairness and cooperation as often as is possible in today's raid scene.

Now lets stop trying to make my head explode, ty!

[Nirgon]

Stop running off the GMs guys seriously

[Clark]

Rustled? Cuz I'm sure insulting grammar is the last resort of someone who's wrong on the internet.

Grammar is Great!

[arsenalpow]

naw we get along just fine, whatchu talkin about?

I was not serious when I made this post:



But since you really, really want to see me totally lose it this morning, I'll simply point out three things:

1) Nothing in your post disproves anything I said. Unbrella's petition was literally ignored for a ridiculous amount of time, at which point it was finally addressed in a Skype call with Myself, Sirken, and Unbrella, where a mediation was requested. i don't know if Sirken was even fully aware of what he was telling you not to worry about during your conversation together - and yes, I can see why having this brought back up months later may have frustrated you - but the fact remains that you had both GM's agreeing to mediate for the TMO dispute against BDA

2) We have few viable options when "forced" to discipline Class R guilds when a dispute cannot be mediated by players, due to the way Class R rotates mobs. If we tak away, say, the next FFA Nagafen.... there's no real punishment there - we have no idea if you would have even gone after that target to begin with. So we are more or less forced to take away a rotation mob if it becomes necessary to address a situation that way. To be perfectly honest I am very thankful that you guys in Class-R rarely have conflicts like this that need to be escalated to that level, as they seem to be more difficult to find a fair and appropriate punishment for a violation.

To close this out, your last statement, while perfectly legitimate from your point of view, lacks the full picture required to truly make that judgement. Any bias that you may have thought was present is a combination of growing pains from the raid scene transition combined with biased perception of events - don't take that to be an insult, almost everyone carries some kind of bias, especially without having access to any of the Class C disputes - where mobs are forfeited all the time to compensate for infractions. I think that over time it will become clear we are really striving for fairness and cooperation as often as is possible in today's raid scene.

Now lets stop trying to make my head explode, ty!

I don't disagree that I'm biased towards my own position, it's a predisposition and I'd say it's a relatively rational thought process, but re-read our PM conversation. It was tantamount to saying "do what I say or else" instead of going back and conferring with Sirken and admitting "yes chest, Sirken said this was a resolved issued but now due to new staff regulations we are re-opening the case and requesting you to send a rep.

That thought differs greatly from "I have no idea what this is about, I don't know/care what Sirken has told you, show up or it's a summary judgement against you and/or I'll just ban your accounts #DunkPic"

TMO and IB can just swap mobs indefinitely where the class R guilds are painted into a corner because we've created a rotation. We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

[kotton05]

Peas deru and holy shit it looks like the p99 community needed a vent thread. Ever since I joined rnf has always made work more fun. Lately it's been so sad.

I appreciate every one of you!

Now let's take a step forward. Does anyone have ideas on how to make the scene better? What if a collective made a case study thread with petitions and rulings from raid disputes? Would anyone wanna tackle that to help create solid references and a more concrete standard in when/what/how to petition correctly? This would help current and new guilds greatly also avoid frivilous claims.

[arsenalpow]

Peas deru and holy shit it looks like the p99 community needed a vent thread. Ever since I joined rnf has always made work more fun. Lately it's been so sad.

I appreciate every one of you!

Now let's take a step forward. Does anyone have ideas on how to make the scene better? What if a collective made a case study thread with petitions and rulings from raid disputes? Would anyone wanna tackle that to help create solid references and a more concrete standard in when/what/how to petition correctly? This would help current and new guilds greatly also avoid frivilous claims.

The simple solution is C/R, remove FFA, full repops FFA. Removes the point where C and R are forced to interact and removes a shit ton of drama.

[Cecily]

But how are we ever gonna be pals if we never see each other?

[indiscriminate_hater]

Set up a new server for each guild in class R, problem solved

[Derubael]

I don't disagree that I'm biased towards my own position, it's a predisposition and I'd say it's a relatively rational thought process, but re-read our PM conversation. It was tantamount to saying "do what I say or else" instead of going back and conferring with Sirken and admitting "yes chest, Sirken said this was a resolved issued but now due to new staff regulations we are re-opening the case and requesting you to send a rep.

That thought differs greatly from "I have no idea what this is about, I don't know/care what Sirken has told you, show up or it's a summary judgement against you and/or I'll just ban your accounts #DunkPic"


I was talking to Sirken while messaging you and that was never mentioned. He was more put off by the attitude that was coming my way than anything else. It's not uncommon for us to forget things we've talked about with players in the past, which may have been the case here.


TMO and IB can just swap mobs indefinitely where the class R guilds are painted into a corner because we've created a rotation. We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

To be honest I don't think this is as much of a problem as you are making it out to be - Class R guilds engaging targets with CLass C guilds tend to be very cautious and very rarely will break a rule that requires GM intervention during an FFA encounter. The option for these two guilds to mediate their own dispute is always on the table as well. At this point, after expressing our frustration as nicely as possible all across the forums, I am shocked that anyone would truly believe we like chaos or drama. That kind of shit drives us crazy and takes us away from the real work we need to be doing for the server. If everyone worked at cooperating as hard as they did collecting pixels, we may be able to finally create a raid scene everyone truly enjoys.

and rainbows and unicorns and shit :)

[arsenalpow]

Set up a new server for each guild in class R, problem solved

Do you realize how fast that would be funded if Rogean gave it the greenlight? At minimum there's 200 players that are signed up for the BDA boards. If I get $20 from just half of them there's $2,000 towards the startup costs and that's minimal amount from 1 guild. I believe almost every guild in Class R minus A-Team and I think Omni were on board with this idea when I proposed it a few months ago.

My initial idea was a blue server with /movelog and the raid system would be created and enforced in the spirit of the class R rotation. I even had a guide that was willing to step into a full time GM role to handle the the stuff a council of raid leaders couldn't handle (corpse rots, items disappearing, true admin issues)

Rogean could put a $10,000 budget line on that thing and I could get it funded in a week I'd bet.

[Visual]

We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

You speak like you have some kind of bargaining leverage over the staff. They don't owe you anything. You should be getting nothing, zilch, nada. They have been overly generous.

[knix]

TMO and IB can just swap mobs indefinitely where the class R guilds are painted into a corner because we've created a rotation. We aren't going to break the rotation to avoid punishment because we aren't assholes but it's almost like that's what you want, to sow a bit of chaos.

Rarely if EVER does TMO or IB do anything to each other to intentionally cause a raid infraction, but with pathing, and attempts going for FTE at the same time, shit happens. Also we all have newer players that newb it up and accidentally train the other team. And when that happens, we step up. (remember the FFA VS we accidentally trained trackers?, not only did we give up that attempt at VS (that BDA took down) , but we got the next VS and the loots to the guild we harmed.)

I mean we look at some fraps and say, what were they thinking, but some fraps/screenshots look like Catherine's attempt to disparage us at Sev. I am sure IB feels the same way.

IF BDA wouldn't have jumped in and helped Taken on that naggy, OR Responded to our officer at the time, when we pointed out via tells and OOC that what they were doing Right now was in violation of the rules, you wouldn't have to pretend to take the high road "not going to break class R rotation".

If BDA didn't jump in to help Taken on that naggy to screw TMO who was there waiting, why did they (BDA) join in Taken's fight.

[ManosMan]

The simple solution is C/R, remove FFA, full repops FFA. Removes the point where C and R are forced to interact and removes a shit ton of drama.
Who is forcing you to attempt free for all targets?

[arsenalpow]

Yes Knix, all TMO and IB raid violations are akin to breaking eggs to make an omelette, it just happens you see because of how elite your strategies are and how difficult VP is as a zone to master. But anytime BDA or Taken or any other non class C guild does something infraction worthy it's a calculated scheme to deny the loot deprived members of TMO. You're fucking delusional.

[arsenalpow]

Who is forcing you to attempt free for all targets?

No one, which is why you rarely see BDA at the FFA sockfests. Some extra pixels aren't worth the drama that comes from dealing with class C guilds.

[Frieza_Prexus]

People don't work together because there's never an allowance for good faith mistakes. Mistakes between C and R can never simply get a foul and send the other guy to the free throw line. It's always got to be a technical foul with a 5 game suspension and $250,000 fine.

The community outcry for 2 week suspensions (a punishment with no basis in rule or fact) in the Raid Discussion thread is a perfect example.

[knix]

Yes Knix, all TMO and IB raid violations are akin to breaking eggs to make an omelette, it just happens you see because of how elite your strategies are and how difficult VP is as a zone to master. But anytime BDA or Taken or any other non class C guild does something infraction worthy it's a calculated scheme to deny the loot deprived members of TMO. You're fucking delusional.

spin, and didn't answer question.

Why did BDA ignore server raid rules, and kill Naggy for Taken, on their failing attempt?

[TMBLOW]

spin, and didn't answer question.

Why did BDA ignore server raid rules, and kill Naggy for Taken, on their failing attempt?


not sure if srs

if you are, you are dumb.

[arsenalpow]

spin, and didn't answer question.

Why did BDA ignore server raid rules, and kill Naggy for Taken, on their failing attempt?

Show me the rule we broke. Go find me a quote.

[Locust]

People don't work together because there's never an allowance for good faith mistakes. Mistakes between C and R can never simply get a foul and send the other guy to the free throw line. It's always got to be a technical foul with a 5 game suspension and $250,000 fine.

The community outcry for 2 week suspensions (a punishment with no basis in rule or fact) in the Raid Discussion thread is a perfect example.

Taken wants TMO to be 2 week suspended for standing on Sev's spawn point during window

wait

the same guild who recently kill stole a Sev

the same guild who united every other guild on the server against them in a public outcry

the same guild who perpetuates coth ducking?

who poop socks and employs ultra competitive raid tactics?

WHO REMAINS CLASS R?

wants TMO to be suspended?

what a joke

[Raev]

The raid scene toxicity that underpins this server is a byproduct of a raiding style that was developed at the genesis of p99 and continues thrive today in class C guilds.

EverQuest mechanics make for retarded competition. The whole concept of a dungeon crawl is that you zone in and gradually move through more and more difficult monsters until coming face to face with the boss. When you have multiple teams there, whoever engages the 2nd to last mob will lose. So instead we have all sorts of retarded strategies about how to train stuff all over the place so we can avoid killing the 2nd to last mob at all.

The trivial difficulty level of the Kunark expansion makes this worse, because both the staff and the class C guilds have this attitude about how Live had distinct tiers of guilds. But those tiers were created by the content: expansions were released every 6 months which meant a huge amount of AAs to grind and new items to get - and people couldn't read up on Alla to zip through their quests. That is not the case here: the reality is (aside from VP keys) most R guilds could clear all of VP: it's just not that hard when no one else is there. Instead of creating new content, the staff has created artificial time sinks which make most people /facepalm hard. Then they wonder why no one else wants to go into Class C.

The solution is repops: by spreading the player base out we solve both problems, and at the same time things remain more or less competitive because faster guilds get more targets, and if you wipe someone may come and eat your lunch. Velious will help massively as well, because the targets will be more difficult and there will be many more of them.

Speaking of repops, we haven't had one in quite a while!

[ManosMan]

No one, which is why you rarely see BDA at the FFA sockfests. Some extra pixels aren't worth the drama that comes from dealing with class C guilds.
So what you're saying is that there's already a system in place that works how you want it. R isn't forced to interact with C at all. I'm glad your solution is keeping you happy.

[knix]

Show me the rule we broke. Go find me a quote.

Not my job to educate you on server raid rules.

Answer question please, remember I don't know is an acceptable answer, but there has to be some reason why BDA thought that it was a good idea to assist Taken on their kill. You are certainly butt hurt enough about the suspension, I am sure you have had discussions with your guildmates that were there to know their rational.

[TMBLOW]

who poop socks and employs ultra competitive raid tactics?

WHO REMAINS CLASS R?



The horror of another guild showing up

the HORROR

TMO in game- "Can you guys not try hard pls?"

TMO on forums - " LOL try HARDER"

[Man0warr]

Answer question please, remember I don't know is an acceptable answer, but there has to be some reason why BDA thought that it was a good idea to assist Taken on their kill. You are certainly butt hurt enough about the suspension, I am sure you have had discussions with your guildmates that were there to know their rational.

It doesn't matter why we jumped in on a mob that was almost dead (and another group of Taken was running right ahead of us to finish him off), it's not against the rules to attack another Guild's mob in an FFA situation. Maybe we wanted some Solusek Mining gnome faction?

Which is why Unbrella had to resort to saying it was only against the rules because we were working together from the very beginning (despite BDA never speaking with Taken, or getting any share of the loots, there's no way it was premeditated) and thus we had 4 trackers there instead of 2.

[Anichek]

/ducks

I cannot believe what Chest is posting. GM disrespect, No concept of what he did to GT, no responsibility for his own actions.
TMO tried to work with whoever was at that naggy raid that day, got no where, there was a clear violation by your team, instead of taking like a man, and own up to the mistake. You played the blame game. I was there that day there was no BDA running in at 15percent, you ran in when taken was failing, while naggy was winning vs taken. Ran past our assembled raid who was waiting for Taken to pull it together or die, so we could engage cleanly after reset. It would have been BDA vs TMO for a clean engage after reset, instead your team ran in to "help" taken. but . if joint raid.. you both had trackers, so liar liar.

And yes you blackballed GT. You even brow beat them for having anything to do with TMO, simply sharing Fear that day with TMO was guilt by association or some shit because you told them to not have anything to do with TMO , like TMO was the Teenage boy with the van outside, and you were the Father looking at his 18 year old daughter, threatening her to stay away from that boy!!!

OMG disrespect to Derubael and Sirken is out the roof. OMG.

I want to understand, why are BDA members staying in BDA dealing with Chest. You all have a thing about being ruled by an overlord?

I cannot believe (well, actually I can) what Knix is posting.

We (BDA) and we (the FAP, yeah that's what we call it) didn't blackball GT. IF TMO was going to try to assist GT in their growth and raid capability - why not help them kill some Class C mobs, train them up so they can immediately enter the competitive class as they wanted to?
As much as Class C says we shouldn't talk about Class C because we don't know the truths, you shouldn't be talking about Class R because you don't know the truths either.

a clear violation by your team = Dincarl trains, anyone? PLENTY of evidence submitted on that one.

Listen, I'm not a huge vocal "fuck TMO" guy - I do not agree with many views that much of your guild has, but that doesn't mean they are of less value than my personal views, or for that matter Chest's views.

Chest feels disrespected by Sirken because he was told an issue was handled, closed, done - and then BDA was punished postmortem for it. In that specific instance, it was like the left hand didn't know what the right hand had already done.

Chest and Derubael aren't peas-n-carrots like Forrest and Jenny - it's known. So the fact that Derub was driving the "investigation" only added fuel to that fire. The fact that the GM's RECOGNIZED THE CLASS R ROTATION and leveraged a penalty against our Class R assigned mob, when the determined "infraction" was on an FFA spawn, has a greater impact than TMO or IB determining they will "sit one out".

We took the punishment, begrudgingly, and still feel it wasn't valid in the first place, as well as wasn't reasonable to have it applied to the PLAYER MADE AGREEMENT that is the Class R rotation.

We like the Kool-Aid, we have a ton of interaction both inside and outside the guild. We play other games together, we have RL get togethers and get drunk and badmouth TMO face to face because of the Kool-Aid. All in all, we're a hate-filled machine full of Anti-TMO mongers. Is that the answer you're looking for?

[arsenalpow]

Not my job to educate you on server raid rules.

Answer question please, remember I don't know is an acceptable answer, but there has to be some reason why BDA thought that it was a good idea to assist Taken on their kill. You are certainly butt hurt enough about the suspension, I am sure you have had discussions with your guildmates that were there to know their rational.

So what you're saying is there isn't a rule against what we did? Got it.

[Anichek]

naw we get along just fine, whatchu talkin about?

I was not serious when I made this post:



But since you really, really want to see me totally lose it this morning, I'll simply point out three things:

1) Nothing in your post disproves anything I said. Unbrella's petition was literally ignored for a ridiculous amount of time, at which point it was finally addressed in a Skype call with Myself, Sirken, and Unbrella, where a mediation was requested. i don't know if Sirken was even fully aware of what he was telling you not to worry about during your conversation together - and yes, I can see why having this brought back up months later may have frustrated you - but the fact remains that you had both GM's agreeing to mediate for the TMO dispute against BDA

2) We have few viable options when "forced" to discipline Class R guilds when a dispute cannot be mediated by players, due to the way Class R rotates mobs. If we tak away, say, the next FFA Nagafen.... there's no real punishment there - we have no idea if you would have even gone after that target to begin with. So we are more or less forced to take away a rotation mob if it becomes necessary to address a situation that way. To be perfectly honest I am very thankful that you guys in Class-R rarely have conflicts like this that need to be escalated to that level, as they seem to be more difficult to find a fair and appropriate punishment for a violation.

To close this out, your last statement, while perfectly legitimate from your point of view, lacks the full picture required to truly make that judgement. Any bias that you may have thought was present is a combination of growing pains from the raid scene transition combined with biased perception of events - don't take that to be an insult, almost everyone carries some kind of bias, especially without having access to any of the Class C disputes - where mobs are forfeited all the time to compensate for infractions. I think that over time it will become clear we are really striving for fairness and cooperation as often as is possible in today's raid scene.

Now lets stop trying to make my head explode, ty!

Heads exploding - requesting code changes to implement that into game, please.

[Ravager]

It will be a fun day when Deru loses it, logs on and just starts Deathtouching people at random.

http://rubbercat.net/simpsons/flanders-sniper.jpg

[Ella`Ella]

So what you're saying is there isn't a rule against what we did? Got it.

Somewhere in your 10,000 posts asking to clarify rules in the Raid Discussion thread, it was addressed that 3 or more players from separate guilds on a single target would be considered a joint raid and thus would both be subject to lock-out.

You became a joint raid by default and thus violated the 2-tracker rule. Either that or you maliciously caused raid interference and prohibited another guild from a legitimate attempt should Taken have wiped.

[knix]

It doesn't matter why we jumped in on a mob that was almost dead.
Naggy was not almost dead, that is a lie you are telling yourself to minimize your involvment.
it's not against the rules to attack another Guild's mob in an FFA situation.
I believe this point is wrong. Try again, and still avoiding the question, because the truth is that you were butt hurt at TMO and were doing it to deny TMO an attempt at this Naggy.


Which is why Unbrella had to resort to saying it was only against the rules because we were working together from the very beginning (despite BDA never speaking with Taken, or getting any share of the loots, there's no way it was premeditated) and thus we had 4 trackers there instead of 2.

So if what you did wasn't against the rules, why did the GM's think that you deserved a suspension from this event.

So what you're saying is there isn't a rule against what we did? Got it.
No i said, Playing dumb doesn't suit you, and I am not going to entertain your asinine request.

[arsenalpow]

Somewhere in your 10,000 posts asking to clarify rules in the Raid Discussion thread, it was addressed that 3 or more players from separate guilds on a single target would be considered a joint raid and thus would both be subject to lock-out.

You became a joint raid by default and thus violated the 2-tracker rule. Either that or you maliciously caused raid interference and prohibited another guild from a legitimate attempt should Taken have wiped.

But where's the rule that says you can't attack a dragon that is about to die? What about people from an opposing guild trying to get a faction hit? Is that interference too?

[Uuruk]

Chest getting shit on by all the females today. Where's Catherin?

[Ella`Ella]

But where's the rule that says you can't attack a dragon that is about to die? What about people from an opposing guild trying to get a faction hit? Is that interference too?

It's the same rule that says you can't attack a dragon with 3 or more people from another guild without it being considered a joint raid. I'm going to ignore the second part of your question.

[Susvain2]

help create solid references

sick reference merkk

[Heebo]

But where's the rule that says you can't attack a dragon that is about to die? What about people from an opposing guild trying to get a faction hit? Is that interference too?

Does someone need to draw you a Venn diagram illustrating dragons you can and can't attack?

[Llodd]

Chest feels disrespected by Sirken because he was told an issue was handled, closed, done - and then BDA was punished postmortem for it. In that specific instance, it was like the left hand didn't know what the right hand had already done.

This really doesn't matter. It is at the behest of the GM's to reopen any grievance/petition/whatever whenever they want to regardless of whether or not it has been brought to a conclusion or not.

What he should have done is agreed to Deru's request and dealt with it later in a respectful manner.