Class "R" rotation and Sky about to fall apart

[Clasick]

1. There are more and more raid capable class R guilds up and coming; there are not enough sky slots for everyone to have a dedicated day

2. There is no transparency with the Class "R" rotation and everything is very cloak and dagger. Without transparency the rotation system is ripe for exploiting by current guilds controlling it.

3. You actually expect a new guild trying work within your rotation to trust you with whatever bullshit you put down their throats and yet not have access ? Why would I want to be part of your system when all you display is contempt; the whole thing is shady as fuck.

4. Any guild not class 'C' is class 'R' by default. Stop trying to post dumb shit like a guild has to kill such and such to be considered class 'R' or a raid guild. Those are your player made class "R" rotation rules and have nothing to do with the enforceable server rules. Just get off your high horse already. Remember AG you got nothing before these new raid rules were in place, fuck you acting all superior and trying to shit on other guilds wanting to raid.

5. Fuck you Chest, who put you and your guild in charge ? You are acting like the very same power hungry shits you keep claiming to be against

[bigsykedaddy]

1. There are more and more raid capable class R guilds up and coming; there are not enough sky slots for everyone to have a dedicated day

2. There is no transparency with the Class "R" rotation and everything is very cloak and dagger. Without transparency the rotation system is ripe for exploiting by current guilds controlling it.

3. You actually expect a new guild trying work within your rotation to trust you with whatever bullshit you put down their throats and yet not have access ? Why would I want to be part of your system when all you display is contempt; the whole thing is shady as fuck.

4. Any guild not class 'C' is class 'R' by default. Stop trying to post dumb shit like a guild has to kill such and such to be considered class 'R' or a raid guild. Those are your player made class "R" rotation rules and have nothing to do with the enforceable server rules. Just get off your high horse already. Remember AG you got nothing before these new raid rules were in place, fuck you acting all superior and trying to shit on other guilds wanting to raid.

5. Fuck you Chest, who put you and your guild in charge ? You are acting like the very same power hungry shits you keep claiming to be against


Preach!!! and oh yeah Chest is a fucking beta.

[Argh]

http://mentalfloss.com/sites/default/legacy/blogs/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/vlasic.jpg

[Shinko]

just man up and come to class C

lots of mobs in FFA/class C

[sanforce]

burn it to the ground

[Chest]

You watch your fucking mouths. You know who the fuck you're talking to?

[bktroost]

http://i.imgur.com/HRopinC.png

[Juevento]

1. There are more and more raid capable class R guilds up and coming; there are not enough sky slots for everyone to have a dedicated day

2. There is no transparency with the Class "R" rotation and everything is very cloak and dagger. Without transparency the rotation system is ripe for exploiting by current guilds controlling it.

3. You actually expect a new guild trying work within your rotation to trust you with whatever bullshit you put down their throats and yet not have access ? Why would I want to be part of your system when all you display is contempt; the whole thing is shady as fuck.

4. Any guild not class 'C' is class 'R' by default. Stop trying to post dumb shit like a guild has to kill such and such to be considered class 'R' or a raid guild. Those are your player made class "R" rotation rules and have nothing to do with the enforceable server rules. Just get off your high horse already. Remember AG you got nothing before these new raid rules were in place, fuck you acting all superior and trying to shit on other guilds wanting to raid.

5. Fuck you Chest, who put you and your guild in charge ? You are acting like the very same power hungry shits you keep claiming to be against

1. The sky rotation had nothing whatsoever to do with Class C or Class R.

2. This is actually a very good point. I don't like the secret FAP boards that Class R uses to come up with their rotations and such. It does seem fishy and you are very correct that should some malevolence arise from the Class R rotation, this will be the source of it. There are way too many individuals that make up the raid scene for a select few to hold the reins. This same sentiment applies to the officer RnF boards in this forum as well.

3. Being the new kid on the block is rough. Keep working with the folks in the rotation and I promise you it will work out for your guild. Look at Asgard, they weren't an original part of the rotation but are now viewed as among the best stewards of Class R and a model guild.

4. There is a list of server recognized class r guilds at project1999.org/raid.php. You might want to check that out sometime.

5. I think your rage is likely misplaced here. Chest is an asshole. But he is Class Rs asshole. You can't rage against AGs newfound pixels and at the same time rage that you can't get in on the rewards. Like I said, work with the folks in the rotation and you'll find yourself swimming in pixels in no time.

There are things I would like to see improved with the rotation, the FAP boards are an abomination to start. But overall it's a fist way of not having 2 or 3 guilds get EVERYTHING.

[Artaenc]

http://i.imgur.com/HRopinC.png

Looks like a fearless leader of some sort that hides behind his computer's skirt obviously.

[Arteker]

You watch your fucking mouths. You know who the fuck you're talking to?

http://i59.tinypic.com/2076ujl.jpg

[Ambrotos]

It's been confirmed that the anon poster is really Lazie.

[Iphice]

Remember AG you got nothing before these new raid rules were in place, fuck you acting all superior and trying to shit on other guilds wanting to raid.

Did I miss something?

[Strifer]

What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the*USA*and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.

Fixed

[Argh]

It's been confirmed that the anon poster is really Lazie.
Confirmed beta. Afraid to lead the charge against class R.

[Bazia]

yeah thanks so much for having a class C roster and very geared up toons but choosing to stay in class R because your not very good at the game

really doing the smaller more appropriately geared class R guilds a favor

[Heebo]

yeah thanks so much for having a class C roster and very geared up toons but choosing to stay in class R because your not very good at the game

really doing the smaller more appropriately geared class R guilds a favor

lol

[Clasick]

Big bad Metallikus and BDA would like the 'R' class to be greatfull for them making the rotation and whatever scraps they allow for the other guilds.

So let me get this right, people should get in on the rotaion and play by your rules or else BDA and the 2 other zerg guilds will just steamroll everyone just like TMO/FE/IB used too ? I call bullshit because without this rotation of yours you would have to be tracking and FTE'ing like everyone else; the very thing your guild is dead set aginst

Oh hang on a second, woulden't that make you the same as the guilds and their playstyles you've been crying so hard about all these years ?

Meet the new boss.....

[Ravager]

yeah thanks so much for having a class C roster and very geared up toons but choosing to stay in class R because your not very good at the game

really doing the smaller more appropriately geared class R guilds a favor

How quickly it's forgotten why there's a class C and class R to begin with.

[Ravager]

Big bad Metallikus and BDA would like the 'R' class to be greatfull for them making the rotation and whatever scraps they allow for the other guilds.

So let me get this right, people should get in on the rotaion and play by your rules or else BDA and the 2 other zerg guilds will just steamroll everyone just like TMO/FE/IB used too ? I call bullshit because without this rotation of yours you would have to be tracking and FTE'ing like everyone else; the very thing your guild is dead set aginst

Oh hang on a second, woulden't that make you the same as the guilds and their playstyles you've been crying so hard about all these years ?

Meet the new boss.....

BDA taking 1 in 8 Trakanons. Enjoy your 7/8 scraps Class R!

[Splorf22]

If anything, the fact that the sky rotation is jammed is a testament to the success of the R/C/FFA system in general, and the Class R rotation in particular. We now have a ton of new players entering the endgame.

How this is some sort of knock on BDA is beyond me.

[Bazia]

apparently so bda can find a way to bully smaller guilds while at the same time be protected from being bullied by bigger guilds themselves

i can see why they initiated this whole setup

[Clasick]

apparently so bda can find a way to bully smaller guilds while at the same time be protected from being bullied by bigger guilds themselves

i can see why they initiated this whole setup

Will you have my baby ?

[Troubled]

1. There are more and more raid capable class R guilds up and coming; there are not enough sky slots for everyone to have a dedicated day

2. There is no transparency with the Class "R" rotation and everything is very cloak and dagger. Without transparency the rotation system is ripe for exploiting by current guilds controlling it.

3. You actually expect a new guild trying work within your rotation to trust you with whatever bullshit you put down their throats and yet not have access ? Why would I want to be part of your system when all you display is contempt; the whole thing is shady as fuck.

4. Any guild not class 'C' is class 'R' by default. Stop trying to post dumb shit like a guild has to kill such and such to be considered class 'R' or a raid guild. Those are your player made class "R" rotation rules and have nothing to do with the enforceable server rules. Just get off your high horse already. Remember AG you got nothing before these new raid rules were in place, fuck you acting all superior and trying to shit on other guilds wanting to raid.

5. Fuck you Chest, who put you and your guild in charge ? You are acting like the very same power hungry shits you keep claiming to be against

Has to post on anon account to convey childish feelings.

On a scale of 1 to America how free do you feel?

http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/pictures/American-Flag-close-focus.jpg

[Tewaz]

Come to Red and take what you want.

[Arteker]

If anything, the fact that the sky rotation is jammed is a testament to the success of the R/C/FFA system in general, and the Class R rotation in particular. We now have a ton of new players entering the endgame.

How this is some sort of knock on BDA is beyond me.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2v9zvwg.jpg

[khanable]

RIP Class R

Seeking asylum in drama free class C, please send pixel case packages

[bktroost]

Or just join preexisting guilds. Velious is coming, 100 smaller guilds will not be able to stand up as well to end game raiding content. There are 8 casual guilds and 2 competitive ones.

I only started AG years ago because the raid scene was garbage and my goal was to get enough influence on this server to make some form of a difference for the casuals. Dulas and I eventually did impact the raid scene, to some small part, but definitely for the better. If I was completely new to this server I would see no reason to start a new guild.

Cucumber, Cobblestone, Fearstalker, Drak, Powtle, Artaenc and even Unbrella are all pretty good friends and great leaders. I wonder where i'd be if I wasn't in AG.... hmmm

[zanderklocke]

4. Remember AG you got nothing before these new raid rules were in place, fuck you acting all superior and trying to shit on other guilds wanting to raid.



I'm confused. You were attacking BDA/Chest, and then all of a sudden you brought up Azure Guard?

How do they tie into this?

[khanable]

getting mad at azure guard is like getting mad at a puppy

like, why the fuck you mad a puppy

[khanable]

fuck i can't even make sentences today

[Pullyn]

Cucumbers, have my babies.

[zanderklocke]

like, why the fuck you mad a puppy


you mad a puppy


you mad a puppy



you mad a puppy

[zanderklocke]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0359hSerDeE

[Bazia]

Or just join preexisting guilds. Velious is coming, 100 smaller guilds will not be able to stand up as well to end game raiding content. There are 8 casual guilds and 2 competitive ones.

I only started AG years ago because the raid scene was garbage and my goal was to get enough influence on this server to make some form of a difference for the casuals. Dulas and I eventually did impact the raid scene, to some small part, but definitely for the better. If I was completely new to this server I would see no reason to start a new guild.

Cucumber, Cobblestone, Fearstalker, Drak, Powtle, Artaenc and even Unbrella are all pretty good friends and great leaders. I wonder where i'd be if I wasn't in AG.... hmmm

kk so your volunteering to join an existing guild to make more room for others

thanks

[Iphice]

getting mad at azure guard is like getting mad at a puppy

like, why the fuck you mad a puppy

Damn, are we really being compared to puppies?! I need to train some people and shout obscenities in /ooc to get our street cred up.

[Wildino]

http://movieboozer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/chucky4.jpg

[Invoke]

Or just join preexisting guilds. Velious is coming, 100 smaller guilds will not be able to stand up as well to end game raiding content.


http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a9/a95f692fc0fd0d126aa028d6a21611773b21ffeb81b9d1acd8 c2deba70e40851.jpg

[Frieza_Prexus]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a9/a95f692fc0fd0d126aa028d6a21611773b21ffeb81b9d1acd8 c2deba70e40851.jpg

Haha

[Shinko]

class R need to merge like class C does, duh

[Havok_4ever 2014]

Damn Chest , What a mouth on you .... and this is the person that supposedly moderates the player made Class " R " rotation.

As for me , I had a Level 60 wizard back in the day on the Erolissi Marr where I moderated the VS/Trakanon rotation for a 6 month period where 20 guilds were in the rotation and for the most part the rotation ran very smoothly. Guilds would report to me when they down either raid mob the I would " Publicly " post on the main server boards.

Guilds back in the day had no secret agendas because they respected everyones' space be it Kunark Dragons or PoA/PoF/PoH ( Mind you we raced to hit the planes at 4-5 am ) .. . FTE did not exist for the simple fact that officers from various guilds vying for the same target discussed thier problems and came up with a mutual resolution to thier problems , minimum drama since we did not dismiss the opposing guilds .

I agree that the Class `` R `` rotation should be in the public domain where any up and coming guilds are able to view who has what and when so maybe an mutual agreement can be made between guilds regardless of who administers to the rotation where said administrator should always remain indifferent

Nuff said ,

Fitzroy Greymalkin 1999-2005 ( Retired , EMarr and Maelin Starpyre Servers )
Divastation Greymalkin ( GT ) 2014- ( P1999 Server )

[Artaenc]

Damn Chest , What a mouth on you .... and this is the person that supposedly moderates the player made Class " R " rotation.

As for me , I had a Level 60 wizard back in the day on the Erolissi Marr where I moderated the VS/Trakanon rotation for a 6 month period where 20 guilds were in the rotation and for the most part the rotation ran very smoothly. Guilds would report to me when they down either raid mob the I would " Publicly " post on the main server boards.

Guilds back in the day had no secret agendas because they respected everyones' space be it Kunark Dragons or PoA/PoF/PoH ( Mind you we raced to hit the planes at 4-5 am ) .. . FTE did not exist for the simple fact that officers from various guilds vying for the same target discussed thier problems and came up with a mutual resolution to thier problems , minimum drama since we did not dismiss the opposing guilds .

I agree that the Class `` R `` rotation should be in the public domain where any up and coming guilds are able to view who has what and when so maybe an mutual agreement can be made between guilds regardless of who administers to the rotation where said administrator should always remain indifferent

Nuff said ,

Fitzroy Greymalkin 1999-2005 ( Retired , EMarr and Maelin Starpyre Servers )
Divastation Greymalkin ( GT ) 2014- ( P1999 Server )

The issue with making the rotation public is guilds that are FFA will be able to see who's up next and gauge whether they can easily poach them or not. It is one of the disadvantages to the smaller up and coming class R guilds. Hiding the rotation actually protects the struggling new guilds.

[Man0warr]

You must be new here - this isn't EMarr.

Class R rotation is private for a reason - if you can't accept that then you don't have to join.

[Artaenc]

You must be new here - this isn't EMarr.

Class R rotation is private for a reason - if you can't accept that then you don't have to join.

What are you talking about? Nobody EVER disrespects anyone's space on P99 ever! You must be from Red99

[Lazie]

It's been confirmed that the anon poster is really Lazie.

Betabrotos.

[Juevento]

You must be new here - this isn't EMarr.

Class R rotation is private for a reason - if you can't accept that then you don't have to join.

That's bullshit and you know it.

The rotation and those boards don't need to be private. One or two officers from each guild should not be deciding how shit goes down in Class R.

[Artaenc]

kk so your volunteering to join an existing guild to make more room for others

thanks

yes, we're in talks of merging all of the class R guilds' alts or some mains to create a super neckbeard guild to take the existing class C's pixels to combat against the TMO injection of alts into GT.

[Havok_4ever 2014]

And the reason is what ? Enlighten me , and lose the whole FFA component considering rotation should mean rotation

[Lazie]

Or just join preexisting guilds. Velious is coming, 100 smaller guilds will not be able to stand up as well to end game raiding content. There are 8 casual guilds and 2 competitive ones.

I only started AG years ago because the raid scene was garbage and my goal was to get enough influence on this server to make some form of a difference for the casuals. Dulas and I eventually did impact the raid scene, to some small part, but definitely for the better. If I was completely new to this server I would see no reason to start a new guild.

Cucumber, Cobblestone, Fearstalker, Drak, Powtle, Artaenc and even Unbrella are all pretty good friends and great leaders. I wonder where i'd be if I wasn't in AG.... hmmm

Heck man most of this community is awesome. People read rants and flames and take things too literally a lot, but you run into more helpful and cool individuals in this game than you do assholes. Your guild Azure Guard is one of the best at fostering a friendly and helpful environment too and most of us appreciate it and respect it.

[Arteker]

yes, we're in talks of merging all of the class R guilds' alts or some mains to create a super neckbeard guild to take the existing class C's pixels to combat against the TMO injection of alts into GT.

tmo alts in asgard outnumer GT as whole guild and u should know it

[Splorf22]

And the reason is what ? Enlighten me , and lose the whole FFA component considering rotation should mean rotation

The GMs refuse to enforce the Class R rotation, so it's purely a player thing, and there are currently two R guilds who do not recognize it (Doljo and now GTMO). If the R rotation is public, those guilds can know when the smaller/less coordinated/more time constrained guilds are up on the rotation which would make it easier to snipe mobs.

Doljo in fact joined the Class R rotation for 24 hours just so they could look at the spreadsheet.

[Clasick]

Class R rotation is private for a reason - if you can't accept that then you don't have to join

And don't worry.
With this additude and cloak and dagger shit; get used to more and more guilds declining your rotation

So what is the reason it's private again ?
It's probably in the rotation's best intrest to be transparent and welcoming of guilds or new commers will not Join and you will have to compete to get mobs

Consider this. It's only going to take a couple of guilds competing for FTE in class R to destroy and make the rotation impossible.

[Troubled]

That's bullshit and you know it.

The rotation and those boards don't need to be private. One or two officers from each guild should not be deciding how shit goes down in Class R.

[Troubled]

That's bullshit and you know it.

The rotation and those boards don't need to be private. One or two officers from each guild should not be deciding how shit goes down in Class R.

It's as many officers or reps from each guild that they please.

[Ella`Ella]

That's bullshit and you know it.

The rotation and those boards don't need to be private. One or two officers from each guild should not be deciding how shit goes down in Class R.

Everyone calm down. Juevento is absolutely correct when he says that one or two officers from each guild should not be deciding how shit goes down in Class-R.

I will decide.

[Juevento]

It's as many officers or reps from each guild that they please.

Oh good well I hope you guys decide on good stuff for the other 95% of people who have no say in how stuff works.

[Splorf22]

Unbrella vs Chest duel to the death for dictatorship of class R sounds like a plan to me

[Arteker]

Unbrella vs Chest duel to the death for dictatorship of class R sounds like a plan to me

http://i59.tinypic.com/1pa58z.jpg

[Pico]

how many critical life mistakes does someone have to make to become a leader of a raid guild on p99

[bktroost]

Heck man most of this community is awesome. People read rants and flames and take things too literally a lot, but you run into more helpful and cool individuals in this game than you do assholes. Your guild Azure Guard is one of the best at fostering a friendly and helpful environment too and most of us appreciate it and respect it.

:D:D

Lazie wins server's best tagger and nicest lizard award XD

[bktroost]

Everyone calm down. Juevento is absolutely correct when he says that one or two officers from each guild should not be deciding how shit goes down in Class-R.

I will decide.

Lol I was actually thinking we should give all the info out and let RnF decide the rotation. That'd be fun....

[Iphice]

:D:D

Lazie wins server's best tagger and nicest lizard award XD

.... wtf

[Clasick]

Get ready to compete for dem mobs !

[Man0warr]

You guys said you were 2-3 months away from killing Maestro, so we will totally be ready.

[Artaenc]

tmo alts in asgard outnumer GT as whole guild and u should know it

Confirmed, this is 100% correct!

[Clasick]

I'll let you in on a little secret
There is more than 2 guilds that are not buying you secret rotation.

Be as smug as you want but you must realize the rotation will not work when guilds get their mobs sniped by the other 3+ guild that say fuck your secret rotation. It may not be this week or the next but make no mistake. We are coming for your merbs

I would entertain a transparent rotation but am not going to blindly join a rotation where everything is secret and the rules on how stuff is rotated is secret too. It's like asking me to sign a contract without reading it. You guys might see it a protection your rotation but the net result is you just come off like there is no trust and give off the impression that its a closed old boys club.

Would your guild want to join under those circumstances ?
How many of the guild currently in the rotation have been treated this way ?
Seems to me there no trust or a basic level of respect being extended to new guilds wanting to enter the rotation.

So keep cracking one liners,
How can you not see if you turn away enough guilds the very rotation you seem to want protected will fall apart and you'll be only be able to compete with tracking and FTE

[Havok_4ever 2014]

I am just waiting for any rebuttal from Chest , considering he administers the rotation

[Emsee]

I expect R to fall apart in Velious. New buffs and gear will trivialize Kunark to the point that you don't need many to kill shit. Even the casualist of the casual can scrounge up enough to fully HoT/Kael gear themselves out.

[Archalen]

And don't worry.
With this additude and cloak and dagger shit; get used to more and more guilds declining your rotation

So what is the reason it's private again ?
It's probably in the rotation's best intrest to be transparent and welcoming of guilds or new commers will not Join and you will have to compete to get mobs

Consider this. It's only going to take a couple of guilds competing for FTE in class R to destroy and make the rotation impossible.

Are you a serial killer? Or just foreign? Your sentence structure creeps me out.

[Archalen]

I am just waiting for any rebuttal from Chest , considering he administers the rotation

I haven't read the thread, but I assume you've already admitted you created two accounts: Havok and Clasick. You put spaces in between your punctuation and your words is what tipped me off, among other things.

So creepy.

[Cecily]

Who should I speak with about getting our new Class-R guild <TMO Alts> a slot in the rotation?

[Chest]

I am just waiting for any rebuttal from Chest , considering he administers the rotation

How's this? Go fuck yourself.

[Archalen]

Guess Chest isn't as creeped out as I am.

[Amra]

This is pretty much the only reason the information isn't public to new guilds...

Doljo in fact joined the Class R rotation for 24 hours just so they could look at the spreadsheet.

[Archalen]

How's this? Go fuck yourself.

Wait, you're an impostor. You made a mock account of somebody your obsessed with, yet somehow you still don't creep me out as much as the other guy.

[hatelore]

Come to Red and take what you want.

[bktroost]

.... wtf

*cough* OUTSIDE of AG. That is CLEARLY a given Iphice....:o

[Lazie]

*cough* OUTSIDE of AG. That is CLEARLY a given Iphice....:o

haha

[bktroost]

I'll let you in on a little secret
There is more than 2 guilds that are not buying you secret rotation.

Be as smug as you want but you must realize the rotation will not work when guilds get their mobs sniped by the other 3+ guild that say fuck your secret rotation. It may not be this week or the next but make no mistake. We are coming for your merbs

I would entertain a transparent rotation but am not going to blindly join a rotation where everything is secret and the rules on how stuff is rotated is secret too. It's like asking me to sign a contract without reading it. You guys might see it a protection your rotation but the net result is you just come off like there is no trust and give off the impression that its a closed old boys club.

Would your guild want to join under those circumstances ?
How many of the guild currently in the rotation have been treated this way ?
Seems to me there no trust or a basic level of respect being extended to new guilds wanting to enter the rotation.

So keep cracking one liners,
How can you not see if you turn away enough guilds the very rotation you seem to want protected will fall apart and you'll be only be able to compete with tracking and FTE


Here is my response:

Burn it down. At the end of the day we will all go home to our girlfriends, wives, children, families and be just fine. It's a game my friend and it is not real. The hate and bitterness that has driven you to fabricate these plots and conspiracies is very real and very unhealthy.

Go to a coffee shop sometime and meet a nice lady...or dude, whatever. I promise you this game won't mean nearly as much.

[contemptor]

BDA/Taken could kill 75% of the mobs in class R, but they instead played a large part in working with the other guilds to make a rotation, so they take significantly less mobs. Yet TMO compares them to class R overlords taking advantage of them.

And for the only other argument that which is BDA should be class C, stop pretending you want competition at your javspam circle jerk. You swallowed FE which was one of a whopping 3 guilds you had to compete against.

[Ravager]

Who should I speak with about getting our new Class-R guild <TMO Alts> a slot in the rotation?

Make it <Just Alts> and let my alts join and we'll talk.

[Bazia]

BDA/Taken could kill 75% of the mobs in class R, but they instead played a large part in working with the other guilds to make a rotation, so they take significantly less mobs. Yet TMO compares them to class R overlords taking advantage of them.

And for the only other argument that which is BDA should be class C, stop pretending you want competition at your javspam circle jerk. You swallowed FE which was one of a whopping 3 guilds you had to compete against.

yeah thanks so much for having a class C roster and very geared up toons but choosing to stay in class R because your not very good at the game

really doing the smaller more appropriately geared class R guilds a favor

[Cecily]

Make it <Just Alts> and let my alts join and we'll talk.

That's not a bad idea, but then it loses all of the Class-C oppression that makes it a fun idea in the first place.

[Dragonsblood1987]

It's probably chests alt account, just so he could leave tough guy replies.

[FindCorpse]

RnF crowd is too immersed. I would tell you all to lighten up and enjoy the game you you are all way beyond that at this point. *shrug* Haters gonna hate.

[Lazie]

BDA/Taken could kill 75% of the mobs in class R, but they instead played a large part in working with the other guilds to make a rotation, so they take significantly less mobs. Yet TMO compares them to class R overlords taking advantage of them.

And for the only other argument that which is BDA should be class C, stop pretending you want competition at your javspam circle jerk. You swallowed FE which was one of a whopping 3 guilds you had to compete against.

They could kill 66% Lockouts prevent 75%.

[Lazie]

BDA/Taken could kill 75% of the mobs in class R, but they instead played a large part in working with the other guilds to make a rotation, so they take significantly less mobs. Yet TMO compares them to class R overlords taking advantage of them.

And for the only other argument that which is BDA should be class C, stop pretending you want competition at your javspam circle jerk. You swallowed FE which was one of a whopping 3 guilds you had to compete against.

Um we keep trying to do away with Javspamming for Class C and FFA targets to make it less work for everyone so more guilds can enjoy it. Don't yell at us for that being a mechanic that is allowed.

[Roublard]

Oh noes , the sky is falling on our heads

[contemptor]

Um we keep trying to do away with Javspamming for Class C and FFA targets to make it less work for everyone so more guilds can enjoy it. Don't yell at us for that being a mechanic that is allowed.
That's the thing, I don't care if you want to javspam or live your life through EQ. You can't create rules to reduce immersion/obsession. In the long run, you all will find a way to ensure you get your pixels regardless of the 'dedication' required. That's why you are in class C. But to imply that because BDA has a large member base and the core has played for a while, doesn't mean we should be required to stoop to that level to raid.

[contemptor]

They could kill 66% Lockouts prevent 75%.
Well darn, that completely destroyed my point.

[Troubled]

That's the thing, I don't care if you want to javspam or live your life through EQ. You can't create rules to reduce immersion/obsession. In the long run, you all will find a way to ensure you get your pixels regardless of the 'dedication' required. That's why you are in class C. But to imply that because BDA has a large member base and the core has played for a while, doesn't mean we should be required to stoop to that level to raid.

rnf

[Autotune]

I will lead any class R guild to the promise land, just paypal me 40mil US

[Tasslehofp99]

WtB GM enforced time limit on how long a guild can stay class R without attempting to move up.

Class R bullies BDA are taking advantage of the system.

[Hailto]

You watch your fucking mouths. You know who the fuck you're talking to?

The servers biggest crybaby who politics gm's to have his only shot at loot?

[contemptor]

WtB GM enforced time limit on how long a guild can stay class R without attempting to move up.

Class R bullies BDA are taking advantage of the system.
Tassle, BDA is recruiting class C players willing to track and FTE spam 24/7, please app and lead us to the promised land.

JK, we know you are only willing to sacrifice your guild membership when it leads to less contested pixels.

[Tasslehofp99]

Tassle, BDA is recruiting class C players willing to track and FTE spam 24/7, please app and lead us to the promised land.

JK, we know you are only willing to sacrifice your guild membership when it leads to less contested pixels.

No ty not interested in opressing smaller class R guilds with y'all.

[contemptor]

No ty not interested in opressing smaller class R guilds with y'all.
Oppression = rotating equally. Oh the horror

[contemptor]

Tassle if it wasn't for "two" TMO cheating members most of your pathetic guild would have already quit and RMTd off the server by now.

[Ambrotos]

Tassle if it wasn't for "two" TMO cheating members most of your pathetic guild would have already quit and RMTd off the server by now.

Actually most of FE did already before the merg. Some of the members who only had a few accounts banned moved on to new TMO. By far the worst guild in that regard outside of eqmac IB.

[Tasslehofp99]

If youre rotating equally why should any non class C guild be excluded in said rotation at the behest of BDA's guild leader?


Any guild with a sufficient kill force for their target mobs should be welcomed right into class R. Instead what you have is bullshit politics and some bogus self righteous behaviour among those "in charge " of class R.

Kind of reminds me of how the class R guilds got together and made a rotation for sky without initially even approaching any reps from FE and we were stuck with whatever was left because chest held a grudge against FE.

Same exact just thing happened when genocidal tendencies (a newer guild that BDA has leapfrogged during raids, a violation of the new PNP under chest's orders)tried to enter the class R rotation. BDA -- class R overlord cowards -- did everything in their power to make it harder for GT to get into class R.

Shit is pathetic, class R needs rules revisited. Add a time limit on how long a guild can remain in class R that way guilds who are class C in reality can't abuse the system in the way BDA has.

[arsenalpow]

If youre rotating equally why should any non class C guild be excluded in said rotation at the behest of BDA's guild leader?


Any guild with a sufficient kill force for their target mobs should be welcomed right into class R. Instead what you have is bullshit politics and some bogus self righteous behaviour among those "in charge " of class R.

Kind of reminds me of how the class R guilds got together and made a rotation for sky without initially even approaching any reps from FE and we were stuck with whatever was left because chest held a grudge against FE.

Same exact just thing happened when genocidal tendencies (a newer guild that BDA has leapfrogged during raids, a violation of the new PNP under chest's orders)tried to enter the class R rotation. BDA -- class R overlord cowards -- did everything in their power to make it harder for GT to get into class R.

Shit is pathetic, class R needs rules revisited. Add a time limit on how long a guild can remain in class R that way guilds who are class C in reality can't abuse the system in the way BDA has.

you are so fucking ignorant

[Tasslehofp99]

you are so fucking ignorant

No u

[Torino]

In any case...

The rotation makes sure that a few guilds doing just take it all.

Believe me when I tell you that there is a core to BDA that plays enough so that if the rotation was not in place, there would be VERY little left for the smaller guilds.
There would be a constant fight to get merbs.

This may not be 100% perfect for 100% of everyone..but it sure is better than TMO/IB just taking everything...
Right?


~Torino
54 Druid

[Pint]

Actually most of FE did already before the merg. Some of the members who only had a few accounts banned moved on to new TMO. By far the worst guild in that regard outside of eqmac IB.

new lore detected, but how reliable is the source!

[Pint]

I will lead any class R guild to the promise land, just paypal me 40mil US

hmm, whats your stance on btc and what guarantees can you make? also would you accept souls as an alternate form of currency?

[Tasslehofp99]

Seriously, how long does BDA expect to stay class R?

You should realize as the population on server grows more and more guilds will be looking to enter class R. Are you really going to keep attempting to prevent new guilds from joining the rotation like you tried with genocidal tendencies?

Do you think its fair that such a well established and large guild like BDA has such a dominion over the less established class R guilds that wish to progress?

Why should you have any sway over when each guild can attempt a class R mob? If any guild that wishes to join class R has to go through you first and have their reputation shit on all over the forums in the process why would anyone in class R want to play with your guild or appease your wishes chest?

[Ambrotos]

It's like things never change. Lose one crazy fucking druid, find a new one asap.

I can't tell the difference.

http://i61.tinypic.com/t885co.jpg

[Tasslehofp99]

Lol @ ambrotos always gunning for me whenever I speak about BDA

You know we actually have a solid raid system worked out here now and BDA is doing everything they can to bring back the stagnant raid scene we used to have. Why defend them? :(

[Man0warr]

BDA doesn't and can't control who joins the rotations.

[PsychoTass]

Seriously, how long does BDA expect to stay class R?

You should realize as the population on server grows more and more guilds will be looking to enter class R. Are you really going to keep attempting to prevent new guilds from joining the rotation like you tried with genocidal tendencies?

Do you think its fair that such a well established and large guild like BDA has such a dominion over the less established class R guilds that wish to progress?

Why should you have any sway over when each guild can attempt a class R mob? If any guild that wishes to join class R has to go through you first and have their reputation shit on all over the forums in the process why would anyone in class R want to play with your guild or appease your wishes chest?

Why should YOU have any say in anything? You go from TMO hater to nut sucker overnight. Now you seem to think people forgot your whiny ass posts frothing with rage rage cuz tmo took your merbs!

[Torino]

Seriously, how long does BDA expect to stay class R?

You should realize as the population on server grows more and more guilds will be looking to enter class R. Are you really going to keep attempting to prevent new guilds from joining the rotation like you tried with genocidal tendencies?

Do you think its fair that such a well established and large guild like BDA has such a dominion over the less established class R guilds that wish to progress?

Why should you have any sway over when each guild can attempt a class R mob? If any guild that wishes to join class R has to go through you first and have their reputation shit on all over the forums in the process why would anyone in class R want to play with your guild or appease your wishes chest?

You act like TMO and IB are just itching to share the rotation.
The Class R rotation is people getting together and figuring out a way to share.

That is not what TMO wants.
They want what gives them the most lewt.

[Tasslehofp99]

Why should YOU have any say in anything? You go from TMO hater to nut sucker overnight. Now you seem to think people forgot your whiny ass posts frothing with rage rage cuz tmo took your merbs!

All things change with time, sir.

If you really think this incarnation of TMO is the same as the one from 2 to 3 years ago then I won't bother responding to you further.

[Lazie]

That's the thing, I don't care if you want to javspam or live your life through EQ. You can't create rules to reduce immersion/obsession. In the long run, you all will find a way to ensure you get your pixels regardless of the 'dedication' required. That's why you are in class C. But to imply that because BDA has a large member base and the core has played for a while, doesn't mean we should be required to stoop to that level to raid.

This is fallacy as always. You make the raid scene easier and BDA always finds excuses not to compete.

[Lazie]

new lore detected, but how reliable is the source!

It isn't we are talking about Ambrotos here.

[Sirken]

Are you really going to keep attempting to prevent new guilds from joining the rotation like you tried with genocidal tendencies?
would love to see proof of this.


also, for all you young aspiring guilds, no players can tell you you're not allowed to kill mobs. if your guild is not locked out, you can race any other guild to that mob. so if you feel that the dirty wizards behind the curtain are not being fair, then talk with a few other guild leaders to see if they feel the same way. maybe you're a lil crazy, or maybe others will feel the same way.

the rotation is player made and enforced, so no guilds are forced to be a part of this if they do not want to be. that being said, its kinda hard to say chest is doing anything shady with the rotation unless hes the world greatest lil secret keeper. if he was doing unfair or underhanded acts, it would cause guilds to buck the rotation, and start a revolution.

Class R is whatever Class R wants it to be, be that a friendly sharing rotation, or, a cutthroat race vs other Class R guilds. we as a staff created a system that allows for one or both or those.

[PsychoTass]

All things change with time, sir.

If you really think this incarnation of TMO is the same as the one from 2 to 3 years ago then I won't bother responding to you further.

The only thing that changed is which team you play for.
Your lackluster response confirms that.

[Tasslehofp99]

You act like TMO and IB are just itching to share the rotation.
The Class R rotation is people getting together and figuring out a way to share.

That is not what TMO wants.
They want what gives them the most lewt.

I never said TMO or IB wanted anything to do with any rotation. My only concern with regards to rotations is that you can't exclude any up and coming guilds and that guilds can't just stay in class R forever.

There should atleast be guilds attempting to progress.

I mean BDA killed VP dragons in 2011 or something right? Lol why are they still class R?

[Ambrotos]

Lol @ ambrotos always gunning for me whenever I speak about BDA

You know we actually have a solid raid system worked out here now and BDA is doing everything they can to bring back the stagnant raid scene we used to have. Why defend them? :(

I don't gun for singular people. If it looks like I do, I do for the stupid fucks who guild hop and jump on other people's coat tails because they can't accomplish anything more than sucking their new guild's dick in RnF and crying every fucking time. You were a useless player at level 40 and every single guild vd/bda/fe/tmo you have been in.

Look at the very same posts you made a year ago. Or hell up till you decided to beg to join TMO so they could keep carrying you around. You would make post after post about how unfair it was because your guild sucked and couldn't stand up to TMO in the raid scene. Cried for change, cried because whatever you did, you just were a tag along.

It's not what I wanted, or how hard Sirken and Deru tried to make it their way. It's what Rogean and Nilbog want's for the server and that vision.

If the Class R people feel there is an issue, they can raid whatever they want and say fuck their player made agreement and kill as many mobs as they want as long as they follow the lock out. Each and every single one of those guilds has the ability to team up and fuck the others over.

Rogean decided a two player type set up would be best. If guilds want to move up and play 24hr pixel quest then they can. Or they can play and not worry about having to raid against an established guild and relive classic eq encounters by working it out with the other guilds.

It's not your choice, nor your fight to even question the other raiding section. Go back sucking the ecocks of the better players than you, in the very same guild you hated so bad a few months ago. It's like you have abused girlfriend syndrome.

[Pint]

This is fallacy as always. You make the raid scene easier and BDA always finds excuses not to compete.

in bda's defense (slap me bc idk why im defending bda) they have said a thousand times that they simply do not want to compete. i mean for most of our guilds it is already a chore to convince people that its worth their time to log on at 5am to kill an imaginary dragon and thats when the kill is guaranteed by the class R rotation. so you remove the guaranteed kill and you enter an environment where youre going to lose 9 out of every 10 attempts to the fanatics, then you finally get that 1 in 10 kill and the only result is a bunch of people shit talking your guild and your members and putting you on blast on the forums. i mean the top tier guilds on this server have never fostered an environment for friendly competition, it always turns toxic between the entities competing.

[Torino]

I think you have some odd reasoning as to what seperates class R and C.

Class C guilds are the hardcore raiders, they raid most days out of the week.

BDA ( no matter HOW long they have been killing stuff) is a casual guild.

If they wanted to be hardcore gamers, I am sure they "could" move up to class C, but the member base/leadership seems to be ok with where they are at now...Why force them up? Should an entire guild have to change their play style because your 2nd,3rd or 4th alt cant get the gear it wants?

Don't get me wrong, I am all about guilds ( ALL ) being able to compete just like the others, but like I said earlier...there is not going to be a way to make 100% of everyone happy

[Sirken]

would love to see proof of this.


also, for all you young aspiring guilds, no players can tell you you're not allowed to kill mobs. if your guild is not locked out, you can race any other guild to that mob. so if you feel that the dirty wizards behind the curtain are not being fair, then talk with a few other guild leaders to see if they feel the same way. maybe you're a lil crazy, or maybe others will feel the same way.

the rotation is player made and enforced, so no guilds are forced to be a part of this if they do not want to be. that being said, its kinda hard to say chest is doing anything shady with the rotation unless hes the world greatest lil secret keeper. if he was doing unfair or underhanded acts, it would cause guilds to buck the rotation, and start a revolution.

Class R is whatever Class R wants it to be, be that a friendly sharing rotation, or, a cutthroat race vs other Class R guilds. we as a staff created a system that allows for one or both or those.


and another thing, nobody in Class R can punish anyone else in Class R for receiving help from other Class R or even Class C guilds. If a guild has the political savvy to get the other Class R or Class C guilds to assist them, then more power to them.

Remember, the staff has the full right and authority to push a guild into Class C if we feel it's needed to preserve Class R as a whole, or if we find a guild abusing the privilege of being in Class R.

[Troubled]

If youre rotating equally why should any non class C guild be excluded in said rotation at the behest of BDA's guild leader?


Any guild with a sufficient kill force for their target mobs should be welcomed right into class R. Instead what you have is bullshit politics and some bogus self righteous behaviour among those "in charge " of class R.

Kind of reminds me of how the class R guilds got together and made a rotation for sky without initially even approaching any reps from FE and we were stuck with whatever was left because chest held a grudge against FE.

Same exact just thing happened when genocidal tendencies (a newer guild that BDA has leapfrogged during raids, a violation of the new PNP under chest's orders)tried to enter the class R rotation. BDA -- class R overlord cowards -- did everything in their power to make it harder for GT to get into class R.

Shit is pathetic, class R needs rules revisited. Add a time limit on how long a guild can remain in class R that way guilds who are class C in reality can't abuse the system in the way BDA has.



Seriously, how long does BDA expect to stay class R?

You should realize as the population on server grows more and more guilds will be looking to enter class R. Are you really going to keep attempting to prevent new guilds from joining the rotation like you tried with genocidal tendencies?

Do you think its fair that such a well established and large guild like BDA has such a dominion over the less established class R guilds that wish to progress?

Why should you have any sway over when each guild can attempt a class R mob? If any guild that wishes to join class R has to go through you first and have their reputation shit on all over the forums in the process why would anyone in class R want to play with your guild or appease your wishes chest?

Pointless, but anyway...

BDA is but one voice in 10 or so and has no implicit decisive value when it comes to all things class R. We all are constantly in talks and have meetings to decide what may or may not be in the best interest(although at the time it seems like it's _probably_ best) of keeping our friendly rotation alive and as fair as possible for new guilds entering, guilds that have weakened, and 'powerhouse' R guilds so that everyone is as happy as is reasonable if they look at every viewpoint from the wide scope of views that makes up class R.

We don't lord over anything, and while Chest is a recognizable and loud voice, he doesn't hold any more weight on decisions than say Drakakade, Fearstalker, Artaenc, the Europa council, Phiren, Cloki, etc.

TMO's constant spin to the contrary is questionable at best and it shows how little they are involved in or even know about what goes on in class R, despite what you'd like people to think.

The rotation is a very fluid and organic process that tries to compensate when a mistake has been made to come up with solutions to problems and everyone weighs in. Deliberation on a verdict is a long and arduous process with many hands at the wheel.

You are specifically looking through the viewpoint of 1 guild that you infiltrated and flustered to the point of them leaving the server out of frustration. With how little interaction BDA has with class C at this point, I'm curious why you even care what Chest has to say at this point, other than pure malicious intent.

[Bazia]

alot of talking but boils down to the mentality of the current R guilds that new guilds need to "prove" themselves if they want in (aka wait serveral months) if they werent around when the raid change happened

if ur a new raid guild not currently in the rotation who wants to see those mobs this year you should probably plan on competing for it because you aint seeing a spot in the rotation till 2015 because of the greed of the current R guilds

[Pint]

and another thing, nobody in Class R can punish anyone else in Class R for receiving help from other Class R or even Class C guilds. If a guild has the political savvy to get the other Class R or Class C guilds to assist them, then more power to them.


hmm, could you quantify the level of help that we are allowed to receive from class C? is it simply the 2 person limit and can they help on class R mobs since this thread is about class R mobs? i dont mean to be that guy, i am just genuinely interested bc this stance could change the way my guild looks at the raid scene.

[Troubled]

and another thing, nobody in Class R can punish anyone else in Class R for receiving help from other Class R or even Class C guilds. If a guild has the political savvy to get the other Class R or Class C guilds to assist them, then more power to them.

Remember, the staff has the full right and authority to push a guild into Class C if we feel it's needed to preserve Class R as a whole, or if we find a guild abusing the privilege of being in Class R.

Don't fully disagree. I think it comes down to preferred playstyles. If class R ever came down to an FTE fest and to the victor go the spoils, I would think that after a period, a somewhat accurate judgment could be made as to what guild would be ready for class C.

However, as you can see at this point, most class R guilds are vastly different from the class C guilds in preferred play style, and movement to class C for guilds in class R of their current mentality would be a strain on that guild at the least, and an unjust punishment for simply existing as they wish.

[Troubled]

alot of talking but boils down to the mentality of the current R guilds that new guilds need to "prove" themselves if they want in (aka wait serveral months) if they werent around when the raid change happened

if ur a new raid guild not currently in the rotation who wants to see those mobs this year you should probably plan on competing for it because you aint seeing a spot in the rotation till 2015 because of the greed of the current R guilds

Again, not true. Making up stories.

[Bazia]

is true

[Troubled]

is true

no u

[Tasslehofp99]

I don't gun for singular people. If it looks like I do, I do for the stupid fucks who guild hop and jump on other people's coat tails because they can't accomplish anything more than sucking their new guild's dick in RnF and crying every fucking time. You were a useless player at level 40 and every single guild vd/bda/fe/tmo you have been in.

Look at the very same posts you made a year ago. Or hell up till you decided to beg to join TMO so they could keep carrying you around. You would make post after post about how unfair it was because your guild sucked and couldn't stand up to TMO in the raid scene. Cried for change, cried because whatever you did, you just were a tag along.

It's not what I wanted, or how hard Sirken and Deru tried to make it their way. It's what Rogean and Nilbog want's for the server and that vision.

If the Class R people feel there is an issue, they can raid whatever they want and say fuck their player made agreement and kill as many mobs as they want as long as they follow the lock out. Each and every single one of those guilds has the ability to team up and fuck the others over.

Rogean decided a two player type set up would be best. If guilds want to move up and play 24hr pixel quest then they can. Or they can play and not worry about having to raid against an established guild and relive classic eq encounters by working it out with the other guilds.

It's not your choice, nor your fight to even question the other raiding section. Go back sucking the ecocks of the better players than you, in the very same guild you hated so bad a few months ago. It's like you have abused girlfriend syndrome.

Damn dude you got me so wrong its not even funny :(

Wasn't in VD/BDA ever.
Acquired 90% of the gear I had on my druid prior to FE being created and was a top 20 raider in FEuntil its end.
I rode no coattails, sir.

Ran my own guild for 18 months, who's roots continued on into other guilds and still exist in TMO today. TMO is not the same guild that I trash talked over years because their leadership disbanded the guild and it was recreated.


Just seems like you are taking easy shots at someone who's trash talking the guild you were affiliated with. It even seems as if you still have a grudge against those who broke off from BDA to form FE (I wasn't one of them btw, I was in acyrid at that point doing my own thing.)

As I said earlier though I have no interest in any class R business, really. Other than why BDA is the only guild with VP kills + VP loot allowed to remain in class R, shouldn't they have started out in class C under these circumstances like FE/IB/TMO did?

Anyway take it easy dude, logging in game to play now..forumquesting done for the night.

[arsenalpow]

and another thing, nobody in Class R can punish anyone else in Class R for receiving help from other Class R or even Class C guilds. If a guild has the political savvy to get the other Class R or Class C guilds to assist them, then more power to them.

Remember, the staff has the full right and authority to push a guild into Class C if we feel it's needed to preserve Class R as a whole, or if we find a guild abusing the privilege of being in Class R.

Allowing a class C guild to "assist" ? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a class system? So you're saying TMO could just tank/heal/dps for GT and it's totally kosher? I don't fucking buy it.

Also, forcibly moving a guild to class C is ridiculous. For the 184848474th time the classes are differentiated by playstyle. Forcing a guild, let's say BDA, into class C is forcing a playstyle on someone.

BDA, Taken, and the rest of the class R guilds have made major sacrifices to make this system work and what do we get, subterfuge from class c, attempts to manipulate new guilds to wreck the rotation. The TMO spin after GT bolted from the rotation is absurd. We bumped them up the list for maestro, the early AM repop screwed up their situation, and then TMO in their ear had them convinced that we were just stringing them along. For fucks sake we've indignation and Asgard since this kicked off and we'll be adding omni, harmony, and maybe moonlight crusaders at some point.

We have over 10 guilds working together and compromising like fucking adults and instead being fucking amazed we get blowback and ridicule. This is the usual TMO spin, shit on anything that isn't the way the want it.

[Troubled]

Allowing a class C guild to "assist" ? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a class system? So you're saying TMO could just tank/heal/dps for GT and it's totally kosher? I don't fucking buy it.

Also, forcibly moving a guild to class C is ridiculous. For the 184848474th time the classes are differentiated by playstyle. Forcing a guild, let's say BDA, into class C is forcing a playstyle on someone.

BDA, Taken, and the rest of the class R guilds have made major sacrifices to make this system work and what do we get, subterfuge from class c, attempts to manipulate new guilds to wreck the rotation. The TMO spin after GT bolted from the rotation is absurd. We bumped them up the list for maestro, the early AM repop screwed up their situation, and then TMO in their ear had them convinced that we were just stringing them along. For fucks sake we've indignation and Asgard since this kicked off and we'll be adding omni, harmony, and maybe moonlight crusaders at some point.

We have over 10 guilds working together and compromising like fucking adults and instead being fucking amazed we get blowback and ridicule. This is the usual TMO spin, shit on anything that isn't the way the want it.

go to bed faggot

[Torino]

I never said TMO or IB wanted anything to do with any rotation. My only concern with regards to rotations is that you can't exclude any up and coming guilds and that guilds can't just stay in class R forever.

There should atleast be guilds attempting to progress.

I mean BDA killed VP dragons in 2011 or something right? Lol why are they still class R?

I think you have some misconceptions as to what seperates class C and class R guilds on this server.

Class C guilds are hardcore, and raid nearly every day of the week

While Class R guilds are more casual.

BDA guild members are not going to be forced into changing their play styles so that peoples 3rd and 4th alt can get more loot.

[Ambrotos]

Where isthis full right and authority to push a guild into Class C? coming from? Nothing in writing or from Rogaen's mouth ever alluded to any such authority or right. This sounds more like empty threats with no merit.

It was discussed during our staff talks. If it keeps going the way it is, I see no reason why it can't stay the same. But when one guild starts getting all the FTE/majority of the mobs while not on lockout, then it would be brought up.

Rogean has the final say about those things, but will weigh everything from what the staff has seen.

Can remove your tin hat now.

[Troubled]

It was discussed during our staff talks. If it keeps going the way it is, I see no reason why it can't stay the same. But when one guild starts getting all the FTE/majority of the mobs while not on lockout, then it would be brought up.

Rogean has the final say about those things, but will weigh everything from what the staff has seen.

Can remove your tin hat now.

That tin foil hat is part of that dude's head at this point.

[Bazia]

u knew the repop was coming ur full of shit dude

[Sirken]

Where isthis full right and authority to push a guild into Class C? coming from? Nothing in writing or from Rogaen's mouth ever alluded to any such authority or right. This sounds more like empty threats with no merit.

was brought up just a few days ago
[6/23/2014 2:49:10 PM] Rogean: The staff has the full right and authority to push a guild into class C.

and spoiler alert, the staff reserves the right to do whatever it feels it should do, or must do, at any time, for the betterment of the server.

[Troubled]

was brought up just a few days ago
[6/23/2014 2:49:10 PM] Rogean: The staff has the full right and authority to push a guild into class C.

and spoiler alert, the staff reserves the right to do whatever it feels it should do, or must do, at any time, for the betterment of the server.

Don't fully disagree. I think it comes down to preferred playstyles. If class R ever came down to an FTE fest and to the victor go the spoils, I would think that after a period, a somewhat accurate judgment could be made as to what guild would be ready for class C.

However, as you can see at this point, most class R guilds are vastly different from the class C guilds in preferred play style, and movement to class C for guilds in class R of their current mentality would be a strain on that guild at the least, and an unjust punishment for simply existing as they wish.

[Lazie]

Where isthis full right and authority to push a guild into Class C? coming from? Nothing in writing or from Rogaen's mouth ever alluded to any such authority or right. This sounds more like empty threats with no merit.

That's right stay hidden in Class R with a roster bigger than any guild on the server.

[Bazia]

bda gotten so bold after the power trips on smaller raid guilds they are telling staff what they can and cannot do

[Tasslehofp99]

Serious question, why didn't BDA atleast start out in class C like FE, TMO, and IB?

BdA also had VP kills and loot in the past just like those other guilds. Did I miss something here?

[Lazie]

Allowing a class C guild to "assist" ? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a class system? So you're saying TMO could just tank/heal/dps for GT and it's totally kosher? I don't fucking buy it.

Also, forcibly moving a guild to class C is ridiculous. For the 184848474th time the classes are differentiated by playstyle. Forcing a guild, let's say BDA, into class C is forcing a playstyle on someone.

BDA, Taken, and the rest of the class R guilds have made major sacrifices to make this system work and what do we get, subterfuge from class c, attempts to manipulate new guilds to wreck the rotation. The TMO spin after GT bolted from the rotation is absurd. We bumped them up the list for maestro, the early AM repop screwed up their situation, and then TMO in their ear had them convinced that we were just stringing them along. For fucks sake we've indignation and Asgard since this kicked off and we'll be adding omni, harmony, and maybe moonlight crusaders at some point.

We have over 10 guilds working together and compromising like fucking adults and instead being fucking amazed we get blowback and ridicule. This is the usual TMO spin, shit on anything that isn't the way the want it.

You are the one who tends to shit on other people when things don't go your way. Trying to attribute that to us is comical coming from you.

[arsenalpow]

Serious question, why didn't BDA atleast start out in class C like FE, TMO, and IB?

BdA also had VP kills and loot in the past just like those other guilds. Did I miss something here?

We got our VP kills when TMO were on vacation. We never actively chased VP mobs when it was a trainfest.

[Troubled]

Serious question, why didn't BDA atleast start out in class C like FE, TMO, and IB?

BdA also had VP kills and loot in the past just like those other guilds. Did I miss something here?


Serious answer.
Probably because of BDA's mentality toward raiding. Why so concerned bro?

[Sirken]

Allowing a class C guild to "assist" ? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a class system? So you're saying TMO could just tank/heal/dps for GT and it's totally kosher? I don't fucking buy it.

Also, forcibly moving a guild to class C is ridiculous. For the 184848474th time the classes are differentiated by playstyle. Forcing a guild, let's say BDA, into class C is forcing a playstyle on someone.

BDA, Taken, and the rest of the class R guilds have made major sacrifices to make this system work and what do we get, subterfuge from class c, attempts to manipulate new guilds to wreck the rotation. The TMO spin after GT bolted from the rotation is absurd. We bumped them up the list for maestro, the early AM repop screwed up their situation, and then TMO in their ear had them convinced that we were just stringing them along. For fucks sake we've indignation and Asgard since this kicked off and we'll be adding omni, harmony, and maybe moonlight crusaders at some point.

We have over 10 guilds working together and compromising like fucking adults and instead being fucking amazed we get blowback and ridicule. This is the usual TMO spin, shit on anything that isn't the way the want it.

the purpose of the class system was to make sure everyone got a chance to kill mobs and get pixels. as long as the class c guilds arent benefiting from the kill, i dont see why it would matter. if anything, it helps class r kill more mobs and get more pixels, something you have been adamantly, and openly fighting for.

[Troubled]

Also, when the initial repop happened when the rules were set, we didn't rush to VP and become class C.

[Bazia]

he's only for it if he can control who gets the mobs

[Pint]

the purpose of the class system was to make sure everyone got a chance to kill mobs and get pixels. as long as the class c guilds arent benefiting from the kill, i dont see why it would matter. if anything, it helps class r kill more mobs and get more pixels, something you have been adamantly, and openly fighting for.

so can we invite class C guilds to assist us on our class R mobs as long as those toons do not receive any loot from the kills? are you just sharing your opinions atm or are your stances something that are actionable and that we can move forward with?

[arsenalpow]

the purpose of the class system was to make sure everyone got a chance to kill mobs and get pixels. as long as the class c guilds arent benefiting from the kill, i dont see why it would matter. if anything, it helps class r kill more mobs and get more pixels, something you have been adamantly, and openly fighting for.

No, it allows a class C guild to put their hand up the back of a class R guild and work them like a fucking puppet. That allows a class C guild to represent their interests in class R, that's bullshit.

[Lazie]

every time someone calls me out for having a tin foil hat, a GM gets busted for RMT-ing marshmellows for pulling raid favors for TMO or a guild gets half their accounts suspended for RMT or raid suspended for cheating.

How many BDA members in their history got busted for RMT and which guild again got the server first raid suspension under the new system ? Inform us sir.

[Sirken]

No, it allows a class C guild to put their hand up the back of a class R guild and work them like a fucking puppet. That allows a class C guild to represent their interests in class R, that's bullshit.

why would a class r guild agree to any terms that leave them with a class c guild's hand up their back working them like a "fucking puppet" ?

[Pint]

why would a class r guild agree to any terms that leave them with a class c guild's hand up their back working them like a "fucking puppet" ?

free loot?

[Argh]

Why wold fucking puppets have slots for hands up their back?

[arsenalpow]

why would a class r guild agree to any terms that leave them with a class c guild's hand up their back working them like a "fucking puppet" ?

Because they want loot? Let's say GT sticks around, TMO says "we'll help you kill anything you want as long as you say fuck the rotation" GT gets the loot they want, TMO wrecks the rotation and shits on class R and specifically BDA.

[Rellapse40]

I don't gun for singular people. If it looks like I do, I do for the stupid fucks who guild hop and jump on other people's coat tails because they can't accomplish anything more than sucking their new guild's dick in RnF and crying every fucking time. You were a useless player at level 40 and every single guild vd/bda/fe/tmo you have been in.

Look at the very same posts you made a year ago. Or hell up till you decided to beg to join TMO so they could keep carrying you around. You would make post after post about how unfair it was because your guild sucked and couldn't stand up to TMO in the raid scene. Cried for change, cried because whatever you did, you just were a tag along.



thank god i am not a dick rider like most of these fgts on this server

i pick a side n never flip flop

+1 for the tru *****s

[Bazia]

i thought it was stated that staff doesnt care about the class r player rotation

[Troubled]

Tasslehof not interested in my responses.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nXGPZaTKik&feature=kp

[Tasslehofp99]

So trying to help up and coming players progress equals fucking over class R?

Seems legit.

[Rellapse40]

Taslehof how do u feel about this comment?

"You were a useless player at level 40 and every single guild vd/bda/fe/tmo you have been in. "


hahahah


god ur terrible



how fat n lonely ru tho

[Frieza_Prexus]

I just want to chime in briefly. It's not that class c benefits from assisting R guilds. It's that the different classes represent radically different play styles. If class c is allowed to interact with class R then the play style of C bleeds over into R. This means that there is less distinction between the two classes thus frustrating the purpose of the class system. I believe it would best fulfill the purpose of this segregated system to disallow class c interaction with class R on a raid level.

Too many people think of the restricted class to be made of guilds that are not capable of completing with class C. However, this is not the case. The restricted class exists because however capable guilds may be, they do not wish to match the play style of the competitive class. Skill and ability have no bearing here. It is strictly a desire to match one play style or the other. This is why it is imperative that the lines be distinct and the segregation remain absolute.

[Troubled]

I just want to chime in briefly. It's not that class c benefits from assisting R guilds. It's that the different classes represent radically different play styles. If class c is allowed to interact with class R then the play style of C bleeds over into R. This means that there is less distinction between the two classes thus frustrating the purpose of the class system. I believe it would best fulfill the purpose of this segregated system to disallow class c interaction with class R on a raid level.

Too many people think of the restricted class to be made of guilds that are not capable of completing with class C. However, this is not the case. The restricted class exists because however capable guilds may be, they do not wish to match the play style of the competitive class. Skill and ability have no bearing here. It is strictly a desire to match one play style or the other. This is why it is imperative that the lines be distinct and the segregation remain absolute.

[arsenalpow]

I just want to chime in briefly. It's not that class c benefits from assisting R guilds. It's that the different classes represent radically different play styles. If class c is allowed to interact with class R then the play style of C bleeds over into R. This means that there is less distinction between the two classes thus frustrating the purpose of the class system. I believe it would best fulfill the purpose of this segregated system to disallow class c interaction with class R on a raid level.

Too many people think of the restricted class to be made of guilds that are not capable of completing with class C. However, this is not the case. The restricted class exists because however capable guilds may be, they do not wish to match the play style of the competitive class. Skill and ability have no bearing here. It is strictly a desire to match one play style or the other. This is why it is imperative that the lines be distinct and the segregation remain absolute.
Jesus Christ I agree with a TMO member.

[Clark]

Actually most of FE did already before the merg. Some of the members who only had a few accounts banned moved on to new TMO. By far the worst guild in that regard outside of eqmac IB.

:confused::confused:

[Pint]

I just want to chime in briefly. It's not that class c benefits from assisting R guilds. It's that the different classes represent radically different play styles. If class c is allowed to interact with class R then the play style of C bleeds over into R. This means that there is less distinction between the two classes thus frustrating the purpose of the class system. I believe it would best fulfill the purpose of this segregated system to disallow class c interaction with class R on a raid level.

Too many people think of the restricted class to be made of guilds that are not capable of completing with class C. However, this is not the case. The restricted class exists because however capable guilds may be, they do not wish to match the play style of the competitive class. Skill and ability have no bearing here. It is strictly a desire to match one play style or the other. This is why it is imperative that the lines be distinct and the segregation remain absolute.

haha why dont you plan a sit down with the rest of your guildies, maybe they'll believe you since they clearly arnt buying what bda is selling.

[Ambrotos]

I once asked Xasten to put in a guide app. More tmo favoritism.

[Clark]

Taslehof how do u feel about this comment?

"You were a useless player at level 40 and every single guild vd/bda/fe/tmo you have been in. "


hahahah


god ur terrible



how fat n lonely ru tho

You're a fucking retard man rofl.

[Lazie]

So what we learned. Chest has a fetish for sticking his hand up things and treating those things like puppets. Anthrax is still crazy.

[Rellapse40]

u wanna fight fatboy?

[Tasslehofp99]

alot of talking but boils down to the mentality of the current R guilds that new guilds need to "prove" themselves if they want in (aka wait serveral months) if they werent around when the raid change happened

if ur a new raid guild not currently in the rotation who wants to see those mobs this year you should probably plan on competing for it because you aint seeing a spot in the rotation till 2015 because of the greed of the current R guilds

Straight from the mouth of the most recent guild to attempt entering class R rotation.

Taslehof how do u feel about this comment?

"You were a useless player at level 40 and every single guild vd/bda/fe/tmo you have been in. "


hahahah


god ur terrible



how fat n lonely ru tho

I responded to ambrotos like 5 pages ago. Pretty sure hes confusing me with someone else though.

Ps I don't really consider myself a nut rider or a turncoat. Half of the current TMO players are people that I've been guilded with since 2010 when I ran my own guild. If anything I've stuck with the same crew since I started, more or less. Also, I'm pretty sure I was lvl 50 before ambrotos was even a staff member or had any interaction with me.

Rellapse, If you really think the TMO of 2014 is the same as the TMO from 2010 to 2013ish then im not really sure there's a point to responding to you.

Its funny though that so many of you who have never even had any direct interaction with me seem to claim to know me so well.

[Daldolma]

thank god i am not a dick rider like most of these fgts on this server

i pick a side n never flip flop

+1 for the tru *****s

picking sides is for betas

fuck both sides, burn it down

[Rellapse40]

exactly what i wud say if i was a nut rider

[Rellapse40]

Metallikus you have been crying since 2010

shut the fuck up already

u fat sad fucking virgin

go outside

[Pint]

Its funny though that so many of you who have never even had any direct interaction with me seem to claim to know me so well.

well i mean you do have almost 2000 posts on this forum not including rnf, so to say we've had no interaction with you is a little misleading.

[Lazie]

I think if TMO wants to help up and coming players progress, they should offer up a piece of the pie they are entitled to instead of trying to offer up a piece of the pie that they are not entitled to.

TMO / IB share 1/3 of the mobs exclusively and then they compete for 1/3 of the mobs in the C/R/FFA system. That is 2/3s of the servers mobs.

Everyone else on the server shares 1/3 of the mobs in an equal opportunity rotation system.

TMO, please put up or shut up. Offer up a portion of your giant portion of the mobs to the up and comers. Stay out of class R business.

Every guild on the server has access to the FFA mobs. Just because you choose not to compete with your bloated roster for them doesn't mean you get to equate those mobs to Class C. If you want a larger piece of the pie earn it. His points are as valid as any you have made about Class R mobs.

[Torino]

Every guild on the server has access to the FFA mobs. Just because you choose not to compete with your bloated roster for them doesn't mean you get to equate those mobs to Class C. If you want a larger piece of the pie earn it. His points are as valid as any you have made about Class R mobs.

Bloated rosters?

How many accounts you think TMO has compared to anyone else on the guild?

laugh.

[Tasslehofp99]

well i mean you do have almost 2000 posts on this forum not including rnf, so to say we've had no interaction with you is a little misleading.

True enough, I suppose

I think most people only see my wacky RNF posts and think that I must be some super uptight and bitter dude. Anyone who really knows me would probably say otherwise, I think anyway lol.

[Rellapse40]

uh o got a anon elf warrior from bda talking shit

[Rellapse40]

True enough, I suppose

I think most people only see my wacky RNF posts and think that I must be some super uptight and bitter dude. Anyone who really knows me would probably say otherwise, I think anyway lol.

naw ur a cunt

[Pint]

Every guild on the server has access to the FFA mobs. Just because you choose not to compete with your bloated roster for them doesn't mean you get to equate those mobs to Class C. If you want a larger piece of the pie earn it. His points are as valid as any you have made about Class R mobs.

hes not saying he wants more of the class C targets, hes saying that new and upcoming guilds want targets and that the majority of the targets are in C and FFA since less guilds are vying for those spawns. if tmo is truly worried about these up and coming guilds, im sure those guilds would love to joint raid some FFA targets with tmo for loot and raiding experience.

[Torino]

I would not say anon...
since my forum name is my game name..

[Rellapse40]

can bda people just go cry on their shitty website?

i mean jesus christ u have more members than tmo+ib combined in rnf crying every day

[Troubled]

can bda people just go cry on their shitty website?

i mean jesus christ u have more members than tmo+ib combined in rnf crying every day

Nothing to cry about. Doin just fine being a part of class R.

[Torino]

AND...
We did not start this BDA flame thread.

only so many times you can get called out before coming out and knocking heads.

[Ella`Ella]

would love to see proof of this.


also, for all you young aspiring guilds, no players can tell you you're not allowed to kill mobs. if your guild is not locked out, you can race any other guild to that mob. so if you feel that the dirty wizards behind the curtain are not being fair, then talk with a few other guild leaders to see if they feel the same way. maybe you're a lil crazy, or maybe others will feel the same way.

the rotation is player made and enforced, so no guilds are forced to be a part of this if they do not want to be. that being said, its kinda hard to say chest is doing anything shady with the rotation unless hes the world greatest lil secret keeper. if he was doing unfair or underhanded acts, it would cause guilds to buck the rotation, and start a revolution.

Class R is whatever Class R wants it to be, be that a friendly sharing rotation, or, a cutthroat race vs other Class R guilds. we as a staff created a system that allows for one or both or those.

I sent you screenshots from the Class-R forums of proof of this!

[Ella`Ella]

Because they want loot? Let's say GT sticks around, TMO says "we'll help you kill anything you want as long as you say fuck the rotation" GT gets the loot they want, TMO wrecks the rotation and shits on class R and specifically BDA.

I'm comin' for that ass, Chest. Sleep tight.

[Hailto]

Chest is like the p99 welfare queen, taken advantaged of and disenfranchised by every norrathian citizen. It's such a sad story.

[Dillian]

You watch your fucking mouths. You know who the fuck you're talking to?

who gives a shit.

[khanable]

OMG THE R ROTATION JUST COLLAPSED

ENTITLED LEVEL 52 DRUIDS AND NOW DEFUNCT EBT CARDS EVERYWHERE

pls text "C CARES" to 101020 to donate 1 pixel

your pixels will make a difference

[bktroost]

why would a class r guild agree to any terms that leave them with a class c guild's hand up their back working them like a "fucking puppet" ?

To seriously and intelligently reply to Sirken's question I say: because there is a class feud that this server has fostered for many years. Whenever I finally do stop playing this game and I look back I will likely not remember FE, IB, Divinity, Taken ect. I will remember TMO, just as I remember Fires of Heaven from live. They are a very large, very public entity and they have grown bored with this games content so they turn to their other favorite thing to do, feud with the casual scum.

TMO as a whole clearly stated they do not endorse their members joining with Class R guilds for any reason. They did not state that they "punish it" but they did make it clear they want to make it as undesirable as possible. (Unbrella can reiterate the finer details, I'm sure). But their members individually have been branching off to join with smaller guilds under the "good Samaritan" guise of "no loot please, just helping out."

What do they gain? They add very small guilds to the rotation and essentially create a TRUE welfare program for guilds that are nowhere near raid ready. The rotation is more than happy to accept any guild that is really raid ready and we are seeing that happen with Harmony, Omni and a few others. But the more guilds that join the rotation the more unattractive class R appears.

They want to think Class R out as much as possible so that it forces hungrier guilds into class C. I personally think that the reason GMs like you don't care about this is because it has been stated by you and Deru that you want to see larger guilds in Class R progress. Deru once stated that Class R is called this because he wants us to understand we are restricted and that class C is more profitable, therefore more attractive.

Well, truthfuly, it could be a massive hoard of free loot, but class R players don't care about the loot. We care about the play style. Ask me to trade my job/girlfriend/way of life for a crown of Rile and I will deny you every time.


TL;DR synopsis: Because it makes Class R more difficult and they seek that for either the feud factor or to push more guilds into Class C (aka new blood).

[bktroost]

They want to thin* Class R out as much as possible

[Torino]

To seriously and intelligently reply to Sirken's question I say: because there is a class feud that this server has fostered for many years. Whenever I finally do stop playing this game and I look back I will likely not remember FE, IB, Divinity, Taken ect. I will remember TMO, just as I remember Fires of Heaven from live. They are a very large, very public entity and they have grown bored with this games content so they turn to their other favorite thing to do, feud with the casual scum.

TMO as a whole clearly stated they do not endorse their members joining with Class R guilds for any reason. They did not state that they "punish it" but they did make it clear they want to make it as undesirable as possible. (Unbrella can reiterate the finer details, I'm sure). But their members individually have been branching off to join with smaller guilds under the "good Samaritan" guise of "no loot please, just helping out."

What do they gain? They add very small guilds to the rotation and essentially create a TRUE welfare program for guilds that are nowhere near raid ready. The rotation is more than happy to accept any guild that is really raid ready and we are seeing that happen with Harmony, Omni and a few others. But the more guilds that join the rotation the more unattractive class R appears.

They want to think Class R out as much as possible so that it forces hungrier guilds into class C. I personally think that the reason GMs like you don't care about this is because it has been stated by you and Deru that you want to see larger guilds in Class R progress. Deru once stated that Class R is called this because he wants us to understand we are restricted and that class C is more profitable, therefore more attractive.

Well, truthfuly, it could be a massive hoard of free loot, but class R players don't care about the loot. We care about the play style. Ask me to trade my job/girlfriend/way of life for a crown of Rile and I will deny you every time.


TL;DR synopsis: Because it makes Class R more difficult and they seek that for either the feud factor or to push more guilds into Class C (aka new blood).

well said.

[Argh]

More like Project1899. Desegregate these classes.

I had a dream.... yada yada yada.... free at last.

[Sirken]

To seriously and intelligently reply to Sirken's question I say: because there is a class feud that this server has fostered for many years. Whenever I finally do stop playing this game and I look back I will likely not remember FE, IB, Divinity, Taken ect. I will remember TMO, just as I remember Fires of Heaven from live. They are a very large, very public entity and they have grown bored with this games content so they turn to their other favorite thing to do, feud with the casual scum.

TMO as a whole clearly stated they do not endorse their members joining with Class R guilds for any reason. They did not state that they "punish it" but they did make it clear they want to make it as undesirable as possible. (Unbrella can reiterate the finer details, I'm sure). But their members individually have been branching off to join with smaller guilds under the "good Samaritan" guise of "no loot please, just helping out."

What do they gain? They add very small guilds to the rotation and essentially create a TRUE welfare program for guilds that are nowhere near raid ready. The rotation is more than happy to accept any guild that is really raid ready and we are seeing that happen with Harmony, Omni and a few others. But the more guilds that join the rotation the more unattractive class R appears.

They want to think Class R out as much as possible so that it forces hungrier guilds into class C. I personally think that the reason GMs like you don't care about this is because it has been stated by you and Deru that you want to see larger guilds in Class R progress. Deru once stated that Class R is called this because he wants us to understand we are restricted and that class C is more profitable, therefore more attractive.

Well, truthfuly, it could be a massive hoard of free loot, but class R players don't care about the loot. We care about the play style. Ask me to trade my job/girlfriend/way of life for a crown of Rile and I will deny you every time.


TL;DR synopsis: Because it makes Class R more difficult and they seek that for either the feud factor or to push more guilds into Class C (aka new blood).

thank you Nemce. thats essentially what i was looking for.

but i would be curious to know if anyone from Class R disagrees with the logic behind Nemce's post here, or if everyone pretty much shares that opinion.

[Bazia]

think he covered it pretty clearly, they want to be able to decide who is "raid ready" and when and if they should be allowed to join the rotation so they can deny guilds they deem "not worthy"

Other guilds helping newer guilds gives these guys less power to deny them, therefore they cant keep less guilds in the rotation and get less loot themselves

[Torino]

I think more class C guilds would "vent some steam" so to speak on class R, but dealing with TMO across raid class is already hard enough, let alone being on the "same" field as they are.

Not that there are not class R guilds that could do it.
But racing TMO/IB to raid targets is a losing battle. They have years of expierience doing it.
Someone is bound to try it..but they have to have a strong core of non casual raiders in order to compete.

I wish I was that hardcore.

~Torino
54 Druid BDA

[Torino]

think he covered it pretty clearly, they want to be able to decide who is "raid ready" and when and if they should be allowed to join the rotation so they can deny guilds they deem "not worthy"

Other guilds helping newer guilds gives these guys less power to deny them, therefore they cant keep less guilds in the rotation and get less loot themselves

and by "they" he means all the other class R guilds.

There is no one person making all the desicions for class R.

And its plain and simple....
No one is TELLING you that you have to be in our rotation.
If you want to take your crew of 20 guys into PoF and die over and over, kudo's to you.
But what good is that doing..for anyone?

Then you have to call for help to whoever will spoon feed you the content that you are not ready for.
This is not WOW, its harder. All you kids want is easy... if you cant take it...join a guild that can.

[Artaenc]

I think more class C guilds would "vent some steam" so to speak on class R, but dealing with TMO across raid class is already hard enough, let alone being on the "same" field as they are.

Not that there are not class R guilds that could do it.
But racing TMO/IB to raid targets is a losing battle. They have years of expierience doing it.
Someone is bound to try it..but they have to have a strong core of non casual raiders in order to compete.

I wish I was that hardcore.

~Torino
54 Druid BDA

Challenge accepted. Just give us time and if you want to join this crusade toss in an app at http://www.asgardguild.net :)

[Bazia]

No one is TELLING you that you have to be in our rotation.

exactly if people cant get in to the rotation then they should be able to compete for the mobs and if any other guilds decide they want to help them do that its their call to make

[Tasslehofp99]

This is not WOW, its harder. All you kids want is easy... if you cant take it...join a guild that can.

This is literally hilarious coming from a member of a class R guild omfg

The way I look at class R rotation is that it is just another form of instancing, something that utterly destroyed the MMORpg genre.

Anyway, your rotation is bound to fail the second you try to exclude guilds interested in joining.

[Lazie]

hes not saying he wants more of the class C targets, hes saying that new and upcoming guilds want targets and that the majority of the targets are in C and FFA since less guilds are vying for those spawns. if tmo is truly worried about these up and coming guilds, im sure those guilds would love to joint raid some FFA targets with tmo for loot and raiding experience.

Except that is not what he said. At all. I will bold the part where he made very invalid points

I think if TMO wants to help up and coming players progress, they should offer up a piece of the pie they are entitled to instead of trying to offer up a piece of the pie that they are not entitled to.

TMO / IB share 1/3 of the mobs exclusively and then they compete for 1/3 of the mobs in the C/R/FFA system. That is 2/3s of the servers mobs.

Everyone else on the server shares 1/3 of the mobs in an equal opportunity rotation system.

TMO, please put up or shut up. Offer up a portion of your giant portion of the mobs to the up and comers. Stay out of class R business.

He basically is saying TMO has control of 2/3rd of the mobs on the server and that Class R guilds are restricted to 1/3rd which is not the case. Class R to remain Class R has to leave Class C spawns alone and Class C has to leave Class R mobs alone. However NO guild is locked out of attempting Class C or FFA targets if they choose to do so.

The only restrictions put on guilds currently are by those at the top of the Class R rotation (Which isn't mandatory btw). However if someone tries to take it on themselves to go after those targets (Lord Bob) the vocal minority of Class R comes to RNF crying about it and painting those people in a bad light. Guilds like BDA and Taken who have shown in the past they can compete when they put forth the effort choose to remain Class R and this in turn restricts access to mobs that smaller guilds could see more of if they simply progressed as guilds and got out of their way.

The reason they don't move to Class C btw is because they know they will still only get about the same amount they are getting now and would have to put in more effort to do so. So they kick back and make inane rules about their rotation and then condemn those smaller guilds that try to strike out against that rotation. Anthrax wanted truth. That is the truth.

[Tasslehofp99]

This is not WOW, its harder. All you kids want is easy... if you cant take it...join a guild that can.

This is literally hilarious coming from a member of a class R guild omfg

The way I look at class R rotation is that it is just another form of instancing, something that utterly destroyed the MMORpg genre.

Anyway, your rotation is bound to fail the second you try to exclude guilds interested in joining.

[Susano]

class R players don't care about the loot. We care about the play style.

Clearly class R mobs shouldn't drop loot then, you guys can experience the thrill of the kill and not have to worry about all the muss and fuss of deciding who gets what.

Considering none of the R guilds want to enter the C arena, there's really no need to better yourselves anyhow.

[Tasslehofp99]

Fucking double posts wtf

[wycca]

thank you Nemce. thats essentially what i was looking for.

but i would be curious to know if anyone from Class R disagrees with the logic behind Nemce's post here, or if everyone pretty much shares that opinion.

It's complicated but I agree in part and disagree in part. I don't really like posting in RnF but I'll respond to a couple of things -

- The server is boring for alot of us. There just isn't enough raid content or mobs for people to stay occupied for more than a few hours a week. Being bored is a good recipe for mischief. It is also a good recipe for genuine goodwill amongst helpful souls.

- I honestly believe a ton of Class C guild members are genuinely helpful, I've met several people that are just good people. I also honestly believe that some of them just like causing some chaos because they're bored. I mean, after all, we're discussing this in a 20+ page RnF thread started because of that boredom.

- Raid-wise - There is a huge vacuum right now - there simply needs to be more C guilds. The problem is that the current nature of 32k hp mobs and 16hr FTE jav/autofire fests, is that there is a limited pool of players willing to participate. Likewise, the simple fact is that the #1 guild on most servers on live, traditionally took 60-70% of the kills from the #2 guild. There is, very much like in American politics, not a ton of windows for a new guild or multiple new guilds to be more successful in C. In the end you probably are just going to end up with 2 guilds. There are alot of people in Class R that are just like Nemce said, and yes, it is viewed as the more part-time class mostly. There are also a fair amount of people who LIKED old fashioned races...but absolutely abhor the abomination that winning in Class C/FFA has turned into. I enjoyed finding out that Trak was up, mobilizing our wizards/druids to get us there, then organizing, buffing, and heading down. The first guild there usually got their attempt in before the 2nd guild moved in over their corpses. That's a far cry though from what happens on this server. Heaven forbid, sometimes they'd help them out and cheer them on - but that only happens with Class R raid mobs atm.

- Conclusion - You've got players who would like to be competitive trapped in Class R because they don't want to become like Class C, you've got alot of part-timers in Class R because they like to worry more about having fun than rushing for raid mobs, and you have alot of really bored people in general, but especially so inside of the unhealthy vacuum that is Class C. There is so much (amazing IMO) buy-in into the Class R player-made rotation because of the unhealthy aspects of raiding on this server - specifically, the Class C and FFA practices.

I personally don't think there is some large scale TMO conspiracy. I think they had some bored people be bored and try to gin up some entertainment. It's fun for a bit, but ultimately, GT left the server and it never amounted to much. I reserve the right to change my mind if I see large scale Class C insertion into Class R for mayhem purposes, but that just hasn't seemed to have happened despite all the noise about it.

Changing raid rules and raid mob behavior can fix these problems. The truth is, three simple changes would make this server have a much healthier raid scene come Velious IMO - eliminate classes in Velious (also move VP to class rotation so R guilds can gear up for Velious like Class C has), leave in the (now R) lockout mechanism in some form in Velious only (3, 2, or 1, depending on mob, easier to hardest roughly, ignore lockouts after 24hrs), insert code into raid mob agro such that it is /random who they engage using the agro list from 0-1.5sec after the pop. I don't think any change can fix the travesty that is 32k hp mobs (altho the raid agro mechanic would certainly eliminate alot of abuse). Revisit rules later to determine if a Class system or other changes are needed by reviewing success of preliminary rules.

[bigshowtime]

Holy fuk u guys surprised there ain't enough mobs for 15 raiding guilds on kunark lol

Cum join me on red where we delete vp loots and bathe in pixels

[Tasslehofp99]

Holy fuk u guys surprised there ain't enough mobs for 15 raiding guilds on kunark lol

Cum join me on red where we delete vp loots and bathe in pixels

No ty red is dead

[bigshowtime]

No ty red is dead

Naw u just hiding on blue pal it's ok to admit

But please continue crying over getting 1 raid mob per 3 weeks, but hey I guess that's better than what azrael gets so maybe u doin the rite thing

[sulpher01]

I just want to chime in briefly. It's not that class c benefits from assisting R guilds. It's that the different classes represent radically different play styles. If class c is allowed to interact with class R then the play style of C bleeds over into R. This means that there is less distinction between the two classes thus frustrating the purpose of the class system. I believe it would best fulfill the purpose of this segregated system to disallow class c interaction with class R on a raid level.

Too many people think of the restricted class to be made of guilds that are not capable of completing with class C. However, this is not the case. The restricted class exists because however capable guilds may be, they do not wish to match the play style of the competitive class. Skill and ability have no bearing here. It is strictly a desire to match one play style or the other. This is why it is imperative that the lines be distinct and the segregation remain absolute.
Holy shit... how do you all only have one member with any brains? Xasten can I have your babies?

[Socratic]

Cobblestone overall good post but you lose me when your solution is essentially a modified Class R rotation for everyone with randomized FTE. I'll pass on taking away the only real difference EQ has vs. other MMOs in favor of people who simply want more for doing less. If your guild doesn't want to put in the work, and adjust to the system in a way that makes you competitive, then that's up to you, but don't take away competition because you don't want to compete. That would be simply narrow-minded.

@ this whole thread. How many TMO alts actually raid with class R guilds? My bet is less than 10. Honestly raiding in TMO (if you don't want to be a scrub low-contributor) is demanding, and very very few people have the time and/or patience to go screw around on an alt in another guild. I would say less than 1% of the population is petty enough to actually raid actively on an alt in another guild just to screw with class R. This entire thing has absolutely no impact on the problems of this server. It's entirely tinfoil hat.

The people who love drama just post in these threads to keep you all spinning. They don't actually have the determination to level an alt and raid in a class R guild just to try to make things more untenable. (Unbrella doesn't even have a lvl 60 alt, he's super scrub, if he devotes time into an alt to screw with class R then he'd prob be equally as uninspired, and have no impact at all)

What made EQ work was a steady flow of tiered content to separate guilds with different playstyles. We don't have that here. Velious will help a lot, but after a year or two the same problems will return. It's a fact of life here. Trying to force your playstyle on the server is NOT a solution (it wasn't a solution for TMOs stance to be "screw you guys, we're keeping all the mobs" either btw, not that we started it, IB was here first afaik, ask them, they will brag about it).

Are things really that bad right now? Honestly I get the whole issue with making room for new guilds but that's a small price to pay for how far this server has come. I see a whole bunch of guilds on this server pretty much thriving under the current system, and it's always nice to see a few Class R guilds come out trying to contest FFA mobs. Taken got FFA Naggy a few weeks ago (BDA broke raid rules to help them do it, but still), and it's not the first time a Class R guild has won a FFA target.

The current system definitely allows for guilds to move from Class R to Class C utilizing FFA targets to judge their ability to succeed. Some one-sided overhaul is not what we need.

Things are pretty damn good right now (minus autofire) imo. There will always be problems but there are quite a lot of guilds on this server that are doing quite well.

[Godefroi]

Unbrella has a level 60 cleric and his alt-time is spent forum questing for great mmo justice!

pras

[Cecily]

Naw u just hiding on blue pal it's ok to admit

But please continue crying over getting 1 raid mob per 3 weeks, but hey I guess that's better than what azrael gets so maybe u doin the rite thing

More like 30 or so in the past week.

[bigshowtime]

More like 30 or so in the past week.

U still counting tranix and skarlon as raid targets ?

[Cecily]

U still counting tranix and skarlon as raid targets ?

No. Why? Does red?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

More like 30 or so in the past week.

It's about 25 or 26 I think. And half of em have dicked us on loot, but still, a very productive week.

[Hitpoint]

It's about 25 or 26 I think. And half of em have dicked us on loot, but still, a very productive week.

It's exactly 30. Between the two repops and the weekend respawns. 19 on the respawns combined and 11 over the weekend.

[Hitpoint]

@ this whole thread. How many TMO alts actually raid with class R guilds? My bet is less than 10.

I bet less than 5. People are stirring up shit for nothing lol. This isn't a widespread thing, and never will be. Most people are burned out on just tmo raids.

[YendorLootmonkey]

ITT: Class C mad as fuck they have to put in 15x more effort tracking/spamming for FTE to get pixels than Class R guilds do... suddenly working together and sharing mobs really seems like the better deal and they can't fucking stand it. CAN'T FUCKING STAND IT. RAWWRRR!! BDA IS EVIL, CHEST IS DARTH VADER, ROBBLE ROBBLE!

[Hitpoint]

It's exactly 30. Between the two repops and the weekend respawns. 19 on the respawns combined and 11 over the weekend.

Nope 31, forgot about that draco that I missed.

[Hailto]

ITT: Class C mad as fuck they have to put in 15x more effort tracking/spamming for FTE to get pixels than Class R guilds do... suddenly working together and sharing mobs really seems like the better deal and they can't fucking stand it. CAN'T FUCKING STAND IT. RAWWRRR!! BDA IS EVIL, CHEST IS DARTH VADER, ROBBLE ROBBLE!


You are really dumb.

[YendorLootmonkey]

You are really dumb.

Thanks for the 2nd grader comeback.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled mad-as-fuck TMO PR smear campaign against BDA because they can't shit all over us on the Class R battlefield, so the best they can do is try to chase us off like they did VD.

[Hailto]

Thanks for the 2nd grader comeback.

We now return you to our regularly scheduled mad-as-fuck TMO PR smear campaign against BDA because they can't shit all over us on the Class R battlefield, so the best they can do is try to chase us off like they did VD.

No one cares about your rotated trash mobs man. I still maintain that you aren't a very intelligent individual though.

[Autotune]

hmm, whats your stance on btc and what guarantees can you make? also would you accept souls as an alternate form of currency?

sorry, no internet coins, and I'll only accept the souls of good looking individuals I can sell on the sex markets (or to use as my personal butlers/maids).

I can guarantee that whatever guild I lead will dominate every other guild in-game, on the forums, and the meta GM favoritism game.

My forum account, past deeds of gaining GM favoritism, and beating the "system" is more than enough proof that I can deliver.

[Autotune]

ITT: Class C mad as fuck they have to put in 15x more effort tracking/spamming for FTE to get pixels than Class R guilds do... suddenly working together and sharing mobs really seems like the better deal and they can't fucking stand it. CAN'T FUCKING STAND IT. RAWWRRR!! BDA IS EVIL, CHEST IS DARTH VADER, ROBBLE ROBBLE!

I would take a class C guild and destroy your entire sharing is caring system and there is nothing you could do about it but return to these forums and cry again like the little bitch you were 2 years ago.

[Ambrotos]

sorry, no internet coins, and I'll only accept the souls of good looking individuals I can sell on the sex markets (or to use as my personal butlers/maids).

I can guarantee that whatever guild I lead will dominate every other guild in-game, on the forums, and the meta GM favoritism game.

My forum account, past deeds of gaining GM favoritism, and beating the "system" is more than enough proof that I can deliver.

Or the fact he is just a cheating shitbag, caught using 3rd party programs and cried that he never did. Only to come clean a year later and tried to brag about it.

Another no name steps up.

[Autotune]

Or the fact he is just a cheating shitbag, caught using 3rd party programs and cried that he never did. Only to come clean a year later and tried to brag about it.

Another no name steps up.

Cheating? I bet there isn't one GM who would come here and say exactly what I did with the program to cheat.

Because all it will show is me logging into p99 with it running for a few minutes.

[Autotune]

Or the fact he is just a cheating shitbag, caught using 3rd party programs and cried that he never did. Only to come clean a year later and tried to brag about it.

Another no name steps up.

Also, little bisch here can testify how easily I circumvented the GMs when I raided. I remember just how mad Amelinda said he was when I made those Juggs fly on a trakanon raid.

[Ambrotos]

That excuse won't work. Go back to ez server since that's all you know how to deal with. Leave this server for real people who don't need mob pathing to train people or pull.

[Autotune]

That excuse won't work. Go back to ez server since that's all you know how to deal with. Leave this server for real people who don't need mob pathing to train people or pull.

everyone needs mobs to path to pull you retard. no wonder you lost your GM powers.

[Ambrotos]

You mean the ones I gave up?

Amazing how much Faz carried you on his shoulders while you took the credit for almost everything. Just another banned cheater who thinks they know something. TMO became a better guild when they kicked you to the curb.

[Autotune]

You mean the ones I gave up?

Amazing how much Faz carried you on his shoulders while you took the credit for almost everything. Just another banned cheater who thinks they know something. TMO became a better guild when they kicked you to the curb.

Faz carried me? I think you are mistaken. The only time me and Faz ever did anything together is when we both leveled necros together.

What is amazing is how you failed as a raid leader with VD and then failed as a GM because you couldn't remove that favoritism you had with your failed guild.

You fail at everything you are a part of.

[Pint]

Except that is not what he said. At all. I will bold the part where he made very invalid points



He basically is saying TMO has control of 2/3rd of the mobs on the server and that Class R guilds are restricted to 1/3rd which is not the case. Class R to remain Class R has to leave Class C spawns alone and Class C has to leave Class R mobs alone. However NO guild is locked out of attempting Class C or FFA targets if they choose to do so.

The only restrictions put on guilds currently are by those at the top of the Class R rotation (Which isn't mandatory btw). However if someone tries to take it on themselves to go after those targets (Lord Bob) the vocal minority of Class R comes to RNF crying about it and painting those people in a bad light. Guilds like BDA and Taken who have shown in the past they can compete when they put forth the effort choose to remain Class R and this in turn restricts access to mobs that smaller guilds could see more of if they simply progressed as guilds and got out of their way.

The reason they don't move to Class C btw is because they know they will still only get about the same amount they are getting now and would have to put in more effort to do so. So they kick back and make inane rules about their rotation and then condemn those smaller guilds that try to strike out against that rotation. Anthrax wanted truth. That is the truth.

I think that you're wrong and I'm right on this one but I don't have the drive the follow up your 3 paragraphs with 3 of my own so you can have this one if you want. 2 guilds compete in C, 4 guilds compete in FFA and 10 guilds rotate in R. You guys got 30 kills in the past week and the rest of us got 0-2 kills, if y'all think GT deserves some kills then hook them up, 29 is still a big number.

[Ambrotos]

This is what I pictured when you made 50 posts asking to be unbanned. A failed cheater who didn't amount to anything in a game he spent 50+hrs a week on, while shooting up everyday cybering a 400 lb woman with 3 kids while asking for favors in a elf game.

Go back to rehab since you have another problem.

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crying-slide.gif

[Autotune]

This is what I pictured when you made 50 posts asking to be unbanned. A failed cheater who didn't amount to anything in a game he spent 50+hrs a week on, while shooting up everyday cybering a 400 lb woman with 3 kids while asking for favors in a elf game.

Go back to rehab since you have another problem.

http://mashable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/crying-slide.gif

I've made about 3 or 4 posts about it, mainly because the other fail of a GM, Ephi, wouldn't do his job.

Also, I remember you telling me something along the lines of, "I know you wouldn't use MQ2 to cheat and it's probably just a mistake." or something along those lines.

Luckily for you, I deleted all of my past messages because I allowed the other person to use my account to petition b/c he was the one using the account (I just logged on a few times to see how TMO was doing).

I never shot anything up either, it was pills and alcohol and I never cybered Amelinda. She was too busy flaunting her "boyfriend" and friendships with you and sirken. I was just able to use my past with her, when Marley and I invited her to TMO on her play character and power leveled her.

[Autotune]

The difference between you and I, bisch, is that I don't have to make up shit to make you look like a p99 failure. You literally failed all on your own to ever accomplish anything of any worth, both as a player and as a GM. I wouldn't doubt it if that is an accurate reflection of your entire life as well.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

It's exactly 30. Between the two repops and the weekend respawns. 19 on the respawns combined and 11 over the weekend.

Well then make hand/ooa count as 2 raids fucker :P

[Autotune]

Let's see.

The guild I helped build is still number 1 after I left it.

The guild you helped build (see, destroy) is no where to be seen as it has been assimilated into a guild that isn't anywhere close to being number 1 and never will be.

The time period you spent as a staff member is equated with being the worst representation of GM staff p99 has ever experienced. The staff both before and after you were a part of it is better.

How you think you could ever put yourself above me is laughable. Yet you challenge me here on Forumquest only to fail again. The only thing you beat me at is constant failure.

[Ambrotos]

The difference between you and I, bisch, is that I don't have to make up shit to make you look like a p99 failure. You literally failed all on your own to ever accomplish anything of any worth, both as a player and as a GM. I wouldn't doubt it if that is an accurate reflection of your entire life as well.

Another bad post from a baddie. Let me go reflect on my life accomplishments compared to yours. I am pretty concerned.

http://i.imgur.com/xhJgAlN.gif

[Autotune]

Another bad post from a baddie. Let me go reflect on my life accomplishments compared to yours. I am pretty concerned.

http://i.imgur.com/xhJgAlN.gif

if you need an extra pair of boots to shake in, just let me know.

[Hitpoint]

Well then make hand/ooa count as 2 raids fucker :P

Not sure why they wouldn't.

[Hitpoint]

You guys got 30 kills in the past week and the rest of us got 0-2 kills, if y'all think GT deserves some kills then hook them up, 29 is still a big number.

I'm sure we'd love to give up a mob or two if it was guaranteed that IB wouldn't get them instead of the class R guild we want. Same thing has been said 100 times. Back when I was in Acyrid I remember TMO saying they would be willing to give up mobs to smaller guilds. But they couldn't, because VD would just take them instead. I reluctantly understood and excepted that logic. Nothing has changed unfortunately.

[Autotune]

I'm sure we'd love to give up a mob or two if it was guaranteed that IB wouldn't get them instead of the class R guild we want. Same thing has been said 100 times. Back when I was in Acyrid I remember TMO saying they would be willing to give up mobs to smaller guilds. But they couldn't, because VD would just take them instead. I reluctantly understood and excepted that logic. Nothing has changed unfortunately.

It's true. VD would just cry on the forums about how TMO shit on the smaller guilds and when TMO decided to give up dragons (the endangered list) VD then shat on all the guilds below them.

Basically, VD cried about how they wanted to be number 1 to shit on other guilds but couldn't because TMO held that spot. I remember how when IB and TMO both ended up suspended that all the small guilds seen the true colors of VD and how they were a shitbag guild of crying hypocrites.

[Hailto]

Was VD as pathetic as BDA though. Thats the real question.

[Autotune]

Was VD as pathetic as BDA though. Thats the real question.

Worse, so much worse, at least BDA understands what kind of guild it is and knows its place.

[Pint]

I'm sure we'd love to give up a mob or two if it was guaranteed that IB wouldn't get them instead of the class R guild we want. Same thing has been said 100 times. Back when I was in Acyrid I remember TMO saying they would be willing to give up mobs to smaller guilds. But they couldn't, because VD would just take them instead. I reluctantly understood and excepted that logic. Nothing has changed unfortunately.

i didnt say that you should give them the mob, i said you should invite them to kill it with you and split the loot so that they gain experience and loot. We both know this will never happen though.

[Susano]

The guild you helped build (see, destroy) is no where to be seen as it has been assimilated into a guild that isn't anywhere close to being number 1 and never will be.


To be fair, the remnants of VD are pretty evenly scattered between class R and class C. So the true problem was that it billed itself as a casual raiding guild, which doesn't really work.

Bisch pushed for a raid focus, unfortunately the other officers coddled the casuals and it held everyone back. Dumping the guild onto BDA when most the officers left was just a bad idea honestly, just started the same disparity between raiders and casuals that eventually lead to FE and all this animosity.

[Rellapse40]

o the joy raiding with coldblooded on eqmac

[Swish]

Didn't read pages 2-26, but nobody likes Sky anyway. Who cares.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Didn't read pages 2-26, but nobody likes Sky anyway. Who cares.

Target's belt slot, so cold. Need the warmth of efreeti belt covering my magnificent abs. Also, stealin, you still owe me a game of titanquest.

[Lazie]

I think that you're wrong and I'm right on this one but I don't have the drive the follow up your 3 paragraphs with 3 of my own so you can have this one if you want. 2 guilds compete in C, 4 guilds compete in FFA and 10 guilds rotate in R. You guys got 30 kills in the past week and the rest of us got 0-2 kills, if y'all think GT deserves some kills then hook them up, 29 is still a big number.

I mean I can see your points Pint. I just don't think it was Anthrax's point. The guy just gets huge boners complaining about TMO. So he does it constantly.

[Lazie]

Target's belt slot, so cold. Need the warmth of efreeti belt covering my magnificent abs. Also, stealin, you still owe me a game of titanquest.

Loot Whore.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Loot Whore.

Obv.

But seriously, class R exists so it doesn't have to fuck with class C. It's only when class R keeps pushing and pushing into class C's shit (like this sky thing) that we can get a bit feisty about it. And sometimes we like to harass Chest :p

[Ella`Ella]

Loot Whore.