Nordenwatch's Guide: Rags to Riches

[Spitty]

Again, only a child would think differently.

Nope, just someone with integrity. If you lost yours on the way to being a shitty adult, not my problem.

[Ainwein]

This is called the real world.

On one hand, he can take the 20k and do... something. Maybe it's travel. Maybe it's paying off student loans. Maybe it's coke. Who knows?

OR, instead of doing something to bring value to his real life, he can give this money away... because if he does that then this weirdo won't blow him up on the forums? Why are you even mad at him? He said he split all the cash at the camps with you. Are you mad because he denigrated your esteemed guild name? Or are you really trying to say that you find the idea of RMT so repugnant that you think the correct decision is to leave tens of thousands of dollars on the table for absolutely no fucking reason?

[Barkingturtle]

If the basic principle here, that he was accepting money in a situation where it's explicitly forbidden to accept money, is not only acceptable in his career but praised...well, that's fucking sad.

No, it's not okay, but even worse is failing to report that income.

The people claiming it is okay are simply ignorant. What they know about law they have gleaned from television or brief stints as defendant.

His actions could have real world consequences.

[kenzar]

I feel most people in this thread can't understand Nordenwatch's actions because they can't understand ever leaving p99..which is sad.

The RMT consequences for the quitting player selling his things is 0, it's all win for them. RMT punishment for the seller is all but impossible to enforce because by the time it's done, the money is in their pocket. The Staff don't really mention that side of it, but it's true. All their investigations do are catching people after the fact (after the fact that they just pocketed 5 figures off of a video game) and if the seller is quitting to begin with...who cares about a ban? So Nordenwatch, who had chosen to quit was looking at no risk, and 5 figures worth of reason to RMT. If you hold that against him, you've already lost, both IRL and in-game.

[Spitty]

I may be the last goddamn person on Earth who finds it utterly unacceptable to fuck over a bunch of people just to go flitting around on some holiday, but I'm sticking to that ideal.

I don't know you, and you obviously think I'm an idiot, but I'd still decline the chance to take $10 out of your wallet without fear of retribution. Minyin too, even. Maybe even Nord.

[Lune]

So it's okay to fuck over people you don't know, simply because you don't know them? It's okay to be a crook and act at the expense of other people, because you think you're shrewd and you've found an opportunity to get away with it?

That's the real world if you're a sociopath.

[Nordenwatch]

I just think we disagree on how much I "fucked you over"...

Like really man, I don't see how my actions have impacted you personally to SUCH A DEGREE that you've spent this much time telling me how much of an asshole I am. We camped some camps, had a good time, made some plat. Did I ever steal from you? Did I make a pass at your mother?

[kenzar]

So it's okay to fuck over people you don't know, simply because you don't know them? It's okay to be a crook and act at the expense of other people, because you think you're shrewd and you've found an opportunity to get away with it?

That's the real world if you're a sociopath.

Can anyone show me a victim in this "crime"? Some could argue the buyer is the victim, but the market has a well known "buy at your own risk" clause that's been plastered all over the forums more than once. So really...who is the victim in this crime?

[Ainwein]

How is he fucking people over? How is him cashing out platinum he earned synonymous with you straight up stealing from me?

[Kekephee]

I'm sure he reported the income as something like "online gambling profits," let's not get carried away with this whole "he's going to go to prison like Wesley Snipes" facet of the argument

[kenzar]

I don't know you, and you obviously think I'm an idiot, but I'd still decline the chance to take $10 out of your wallet without fear of retribution. Minyin too, even. Maybe even Nord.

And this is because you can't conceive of yourself leaving the server forever. That's sad. Once you get over that mole hill, you'll see how silly you're being.

[loramin]

This is called the real world.
...
OR, instead of doing something to bring value to his real life, he can give this money away

Who ever said that any of it was ever his to give away in the first place? Rogean pays for this server (with help from donations), and every last pixel on it is owned in the "real world" by Rogean. The only way Nordenwatch ever had the illusion of ownership over anything was because other people paid real world money for him to be able to.

In essence Rogean rolled out a giant welcome mat and said "please come have fun on this server that I own but am generously providing for you to enjoy". Nordenwatch came, had fun, then took a crap on that welcome mat on his way out.

[Barkingturtle]

How is he fucking people over?

Simpletons.

This is an easy one. Only a real dummy wouldn't understand.

He's fucking people over by robbing them of the joy and sense of accomplishment one feels when earning their own wealth!

[casdegere]

Finally. Someone with a brain.

You're an idiot.

I saw someone throw around a figure of 20k. Let's assume that's true. With that amount of cash I figure this guy can take 4-5 trips anywhere he wants in the world. You're seriously saying he should forgo this, so on his deathbed he can say "Man, I'm so glad I was respectful of all the white knights on p1999 5 decades ago!"

Think how ridiculous this would sound to anyone who isn't thousands of posts deep into the echo chamber that is the p1999 forums. Give him shit all you want, but he's the only person in this thread who I'd actually consider hiring because he's at least capable of acting rationally. This bullshit altruism (read: jealousy) is hilarious. Seriously, go print this whole thing out and go ask people if they'd give up 20k to not piss off some internet nerds they've never met.

But please, continue making assumptions about his role in the real world based on how he played this stupid game.

Apparently people with honor and having a conscience are trumped by people with balls to break the rules and make some dough at the expense of others. M I jealous? Saddened is more like it that people like these Douche bags are looked up to at all. Selfish, self absorbed bastards who do not have the ability or patience to just play the game. They gotta be better and special beings draped in gold for all to look upon in awe. Pathetic...Rags to riches due to an ability to dispense excess cash for pixels for increased profits. There are still alot of people who avoided the bans and who still 2box.

I don't care a whit about what he does in the real world. Such does not apply to what he and others did to the server. Well, it was fun right? As long as they were kicking it bigtime, what did it matter for the economy or the server.

[Kekephee]

In essence Rogean rolled out a giant welcome mat and said "please come have fun on this server that I own but am generously providing for you to enjoy". Nordenwatch came, had fun, then took a crap on that welcome mat on his way out.

You came over, splashed around in the pool and had a good time. Then when you were ready to leave, you pooped in the pool and made all manner of excuses for your loose anus. In this analogy, your anus symbolizes your moral compass.

The important thing here is everybody agrees Nordenwatch pooped somewhere at some point

[Barkingturtle]

Everybody poops.

[Kekephee]

EVERYBODY IS GUILTY

[loramin]

The important thing here is everybody agrees Nordenwatch pooped somewhere at some point

Everybody poops.


Yeah, I was going to use an anology of being invited in to someone's home and stealing their silver, but then I decided that this thread really needed more poop.

[Ainwein]

Apparently people with honor and having a conscience are trumped by people with balls to break the rules and make some dough at the expense of others. M I jealous? Saddened is more like it that people like these Douche bags are looked up to at all. Selfish, self absorbed bastards who do not have the ability or patience to just play the game. They gotta be better and special beings draped in gold for all to look upon in awe. Pathetic...Rags to riches due to an ability to dispense excess cash for pixels for increased profits. There are still alot of people who avoided the bans and who still 2box.

I don't care a whit about what he does in the real world. Such does not apply to what he and others did to the server. Well, it was fun right? As long as they were kicking it bigtime, what did it matter for the economy or the server.

Please explain to me what effect this had on the economy? And how was this made at the expense of others? The only argument you can possibly make is that you're mad because BUYERS were able to improve their character quicker than you were. Oh no. Sky is falling. Sure as fuck don't want that happening!

I think the correlation between people raging about this and people who could really use 20k is probably 1.

[kenzar]

Who ever said that any of it was ever his to give away in the first place? Rogean pays for this server (with help from donations), and every last pixel on it is owned in the "real world" by Rogean. The only way Nordenwatch ever had the illusion of ownership over anything was because other people paid real world money for him to be able to.

In essence Rogean rolled out a giant welcome mat and said "please come have fun on this server that I own but am generously providing for you to enjoy". Nordenwatch came, had fun, then took a crap on that welcome mat on his way out.

Rogean has established a punishment system for the people that choose to do this and Nordenwatch has been punished. Unfortunately the punishment does almost nothing to the player that is cashing-out and never returning and seriously bones the person buying the stuff. The prescribed punishment relies on the idea that a buyer will weigh the consequence and then not purchase items. But we are human, and everyone thinks they are special, and it won't happen to them....Meanwhile Nordenwatch is stacking paper.

[Splorf22]

Can anyone show me a victim in this "crime"? Some could argue the buyer is the victim, but the market has a well known "buy at your own risk" clause that's been plastered all over the forums more than once. So really...who is the victim in this crime?

As far as I know, the server only exists as long as it's free to play, lest it be shut down by Sony. So the clear victims here are a) the giant amount of staff time wasted instead of say, working on Velious and b) possibly the entire server being shut down by asshat lawyers.

[alaiwy0503]

Please explain to me what effect this had on the economy? And how was this made at the expense of others? The only argument you can possibly make is that you're mad because BUYERS were able to improve their character quicker than you were. Oh no. Sky is falling. Sure as fuck don't want that happening!

I think the correlation between people raging about this and people who could really use 20k is probably 1.

Haha, this! I promise you the people enraged by this also LOSE THEIR SHIT when somebody gets PL'd in Unrest. That is a 1:1 ratio as well I can PROMISE you.

[kenzar]

I think the correlation between people raging about this and people who could really use 20k is probably 1.

^

Someone show me a victim who wasn't complicit in this, please.

[JayN]

Please explain to me what effect this had on the economy? And how was this made at the expense of others? The only argument you can possibly make is that you're mad because BUYERS were able to improve their character quicker than you were. Oh no. Sky is falling. Sure as fuck don't want that happening!

I think the correlation between people raging about this and people who could really use 20k is probably 1.

Ill explain it to you; the man selling platinum to characters in game is also selling items in game.... So he over prices his stuff to the point only an RMT'er could afford to buy from him. Thus further entrenching his tunnel rat scheme and further perpetuating his RMTing.

It was an endless cycle of madness, the saddest part about all of this is; the loser still lies about how much they made and continues to defend themselves on a game they are completely banned from now.

Time to go outside and start your life!

[kenzar]

As far as I know, the server only exists as long as it's free to play, lest it be shut down by Sony. So the clear victims here are a) the giant amount of staff time wasted instead of say, working on Velious and b) possibly the entire server being shut down by asshat lawyers.

The server is free to play on...what's your point?

[Splorf22]

Please explain to me what effect this had on the economy? And how was this made at the expense of others? The only argument you can possibly make is that you're mad because BUYERS were able to improve their character quicker than you were. Oh no. Sky is falling. Sure as fuck don't want that happening!

By increasing demand RMT increases the price of items, thus making it harder for ordinary players to get them. This is pretty obvious.

I think the correlation between people raging about this and people who could really use 20k is probably 1.

No, I make far more than that every year. You may find this difficult to believe, but not everyone likes to move to the top by stepping on other people.

[Lune]

I shouldn't have to explain why an RMT-tolerant model and an utter disregard for the staff's efforts to enforce their own rules harms the server, and bothers people who care about right and wrong- both as a matter of principle and practicality.

It suffices to say that if RMT were both ubiquitous and accepted on p99, I would stay miles away.

[JayN]

it causes false inflation for all your RTARDS who'm dont get "it"

[Splorf22]

The server is free to play on...what's your point?

Considering that your post is completely unrelated to mine . . . what's your point?

Also for gods sake lets get this thread moved to RNF

[Wrench]

Can anyone show me a victim in this "crime"? Some could argue the buyer is the victim, but the market has a well known "buy at your own risk" clause that's been plastered all over the forums more than once. So really...who is the victim in this crime?

gtfo with this buy at your own risk stuff

the majority of people buying plat are new to the server, and dont understand the context or actual risk of banned accounts on p99

taking advantage of the uninformed or misguided doesnt invalidate their status as victims

[kenzar]

By increasing demand RMT increases the price of items, thus making it harder for ordinary players to get them. This is pretty obvious.


No, I make far more than that every year. You may find this difficult to believe, but not everyone likes to move to the top by stepping on other people.

If everyone RMT'd I'd be inclined to agree. The sheer amount of salt in this 1 thread is testament that not everyone RMTs.

Do you make more money than that playing everquest every year? Everyone has a career.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Both sides understand each other; it's just that no one is going to be convinced.

The people arguing for Nordenwatch aren't going to be convinced, and the people arguing otherwise aren't going to budge. At the end of the day he made a dick move; there's nothing that can really done about it that hasn't been done. The temptation he faced seeing $20K is certainly understandable, but it still makes him an ass to cash out. The only currency left to traffic in here is respect, and it obviously doesn't mean a whole lot to some of the people here.

I do find it interesting the lengths Nordenwatch is going through to justify his actions to the rest of us despite having no stake left here.

[Ainwein]

By increasing demand RMT increases the price of items, thus making it harder for ordinary players to get them. This is pretty obvious.



No, I make far more than that every year. You may find this difficult to believe, but not everyone likes to move to the top by stepping on other people.

How does RMT increase demand? If the platinum wasn't RMTd are you suggesting that it'd somehow leave the economy?

I know nothing about economics, but isn't inflation due to the fact that we've been sitting on the same fucking expansion for years while platinum is constantly coming into the system?

[kenzar]

gtfo with this buy at your own risk stuff

the majority of people buying plat are new to the server, and dont understand the context or actual risk of banned accounts on p99

taking advantage of the uninformed or misguided doesnt invalidate their status as victims

Where did you find this data? Please present us with this information that "the majority of people buying plat are new to the server."

The majority of people buying plat are the server staff...see I can make shit up to.

[Nordenwatch]

As far as I know, the server only exists as long as it's free to play, lest it be shut down by Sony. So the clear victims here are a) the giant amount of staff time wasted instead of say, working on Velious and b) possibly the entire server being shut down by asshat lawyers.

As long as the staff's official policy continues to be that RMT is against the server rules they won't have any Sony banhammer coming down. Considering that Sony is WELL AWARE of the existence of the server and therefore obviously aware of the rampant RMT that does occur (see platlord) there is no risk of this happening. Its a weak argument at best.

[JayN]

dude never made no fucking 20k; if you believe that you are a fking MORAN

[Wrench]

Where did you find this data? Please present us with this information that "the majority of people buying plat are new to the server."

The majority of people buying plat are the server staff...see I can make shit up to.

alright asshat, lets say 1 out 100

that would make it ok then?

i guess if you cant defend the main point, look for somethin to pick at

[Nordenwatch]

I do find it interesting the lengths Nordenwatch is going through to justify his actions to the rest of us despite having no stake left here.

forumquest is serious business

[kenzar]

alright asshat, lets say 1 out 100

that would make it ok then?

Are we still making up data points? Let's call it 0/100.

[JayN]

SoE cant stop p99 simply because it is not trademarked material; EQ live has been completely revamped several times and no longer offers the content p99 offers. two completely different things w/e they are called.

[kenzar]

Considering that your post is completely unrelated to mine . . . what's your point?

Also for gods sake lets get this thread moved to RNF

As far as I know, the server only exists as long as it's free to play, lest it be shut down by Sony. So the clear victims here are a) the giant amount of staff time wasted instead of say, working on Velious and b) possibly the entire server being shut down by asshat lawyers.

The server remains free to play on, so it won't be shut down by Sony. So their are no clear victims until the server becomes pay to play.

[Wrench]

As long as the staff's official policy continues to be that RMT is against the server rules they won't have any Sony banhammer coming down. Considering that Sony is WELL AWARE of the existence of the server and therefore obviously aware of the rampant RMT that does occur (see platlord) there is no risk of this happening. Its a weak argument at best.

as long as the unpaid volunteer staff is continuing to spend their time policing my rmt so that the server avoids the banhammer then were good

[casdegere]

Haha, this! I promise you the people enraged by this also LOSE THEIR SHIT when somebody gets PL'd in Unrest. That is a 1:1 ratio as well I can PROMISE you.

The effect was higher prices and content that has been locked out for alot of people due to repeaters who are on that shit like white on rice 24/7 due to the fact that REAL money was being made over it. You will see a drop in prices as people will not be able to easily hit up their Credit card to buy a Fungi. There are SO many out there right now, you will see. Were they half the price in 2012? (I can't remember exactly)

Personally, I don't care if someone PLs or buys an Epic at level 1. Those with mega plat will only be buying really high end shit from one another as people who actually just play the game can't get to the content easily. I personally don't have a wish to play 24/7 so I find fun stuff to do with by buds and we simply enjoy the game. When we see people in high end gear, we admire it but we're not willing to pay for it, it defeats the purpose of the game and the server.

To simplify this into those who do RMT (the bad mamojammer mofos) and those who don't (the herd) is kind of funny considering this game is 15 years old and free to play.

[Barkingturtle]

Historically, and specifically here on P99, RMT has been a driver of hacks, dupes and other deadly sins.

[kenzar]

as long as the unpaid volunteer staff is continuing to spend their time policing my rmt so that the server avoids the banhammer then were good

Well, more like: "as long as the unpaid volunteer staff is continuing to remain unpaid then were good."

[Splorf22]

How does RMT increase demand? If the platinum wasn't RMTd are you suggesting that it'd somehow leave the economy?

RMT scum X goes to a valuable item camp and gets a valuable item, then trades it for cash to Noob Y. Without RMT, that camp is either a) open or b) occupied by normal players because X is doing whatever else. This isn't rocket science.

I know nothing about economics, but isn't inflation due to the fact that we've been sitting on the same fucking expansion for years while platinum is constantly coming into the system?

What inflation? I remember buying a Hierophant's cloak for 100k 3 months after Kunark came out (well actually I traded a Rod of Mourning, but same thing). Now said cloak is 35k. Reality is everything is dirt cheap now.

[Wrench]

Are we still making up data points? Let's call it 0/100.

i guess if you cant defend the main point, look for somethin to pick at

your not seriously debating this, just spewin garbage

[kenzar]

Historically, and specifically here on P99, RMT has been a driver of hacks, dupes and other deadly sins.

Which have been fixed and in turn makes the server stronger. RMT makes this server better...

[Detoxx]

Can anyone show me a victim in this "crime"? Some could argue the buyer is the victim, but the market has a well known "buy at your own risk" clause that's been plastered all over the forums more than once. So really...who is the victim in this crime?

Gambling and Prostitution are also victimless crimes, just sayin

[Nordenwatch]

RMT scum X goes to a valuable item camp and gets a valuable item, then trades it for cash to Noob Y. Without RMT, that camp is either a) open or b) occupied by normal players because X is doing whatever else. This isn't rocket science.

But.. that's not how that works. Even if I wasn't going to RMT I would have been at that valuable item camp, because for me that's the enjoyment I get from EQ.

[kenzar]

your not seriously debating this, just spewin garbage

You claimed the majority of people buying plat are new to the server. I asked you to provide us with that information. You failed, dont be salty.

[Barkingturtle]

Which have been fixed and in turn makes the server stronger. RMT makes this server better...


For me, the most satisfying moments in Forumquest come when I manipulate some dummy into destroying their own credibility, the way you have done, just now.

Thanks for this. I will treasure the dignity I have stolen from you.

[kenzar]

Gambling and Prostitution are also victimless crimes, just sayin

Great point! I agree 100%.

[kenzar]

For me, the most satisfying moments in Forumquest come when I manipulate some dummy into destroying their own credibility, the way you have done, just now.

Thanks for this. I will treasure the dignity I have stolen from you.

I had credibility? You know I'm arguing for RMT on an anti-RMT server, right? Besides I 100% stand by that statement. Rogean's hard-on to stop RMT has resulted in several dupes being fixed, the hardware being upgraded, and better hosts being found and unfit staff being removed. RMT has made this server stronger whether you will admit it or not.

[casdegere]

Great point! I agree 100%.

I smells a Troll.

[Red_Psyphon]

Tattersail supports RMT ? Big surprise..seen you camping jboots 24/7 for months LOL

[kenzar]

Tattersail supports RMT ? Big surprise..seen you camping jboots 24/7 for months LOL

Everyone knows the big bucks are in Sro...

I smells a Troll.

no troll, merely agreeing with Detoxx.

[Detoxx]

Great point! I agree 100%.

Point being that because its a "victimless crime" it doesnt mean there isn't victims. When a gambler spends all of his life savings and destroys his family and childrens college fund, they become victims.

[Red_Psyphon]

Big bucks....

If you need money why not use your time on a real job, Or get invested in some RL markets? Cowardice? Lack of education? Parents not letting you use their car to get to work?

[Nordenwatch]

Point being that because its a "victimless crime" it doesnt mean their isn't victims. When a gambler spends all of his life savings and destroys his family and childrens college fund, they become victims.

its his life savings, family, and childrens college fund bro he can do what he wants

[Detoxx]

its his life savings, family, and childrens college fund bro he can do what he wants

Typical coming from an RMT scums perspective :p

[Barkingturtle]

I had credibility? You know I'm arguing for RMT on an anti-RMT server, right? Besides I 100% stand by that statement. Rogean's hard-on to stop RMT has resulted in several dupes being fixed, the hardware being upgraded, and better hosts being found and unfit staff being removed. RMT has made this server stronger whether you will admit it or not.

This is painful logic I'm forcing you to adopt. This is the equivalent of me holding you down and making you slap yourself with your own hand.

You aren't trolling. You're just not good at thinking.

By this logic, every assault on the server's integrity is a positive, and we'd all be better off if more people were cheating in as many ways as possible.

I wonder, did you happen to grow up without a father?

[kenzar]

Point being that because its a "victimless crime" it doesnt mean their isn't victims. When a gambler spends all of his life savings and destroys his family and childrens college fund, they become victims.

So because someone can't handle walking away from a table, its gambling's fault? I'd argue that person's family were victims long before that person stepped up to the table.

So how does that relate to RMT?

[Pint]

damn can i back pedal on my stance now, i didnt know norden was robbing children of their college funds

[kenzar]

This is painful logic I'm forcing you to adopt. This is the equivalent of me holding you down and making you slap yourself with your own hand.

You aren't trolling. You're just not good at thinking.

By this logic, every assault on the server's integrity is a positive, and we'd all be better off if more people were cheating in as many ways as possible.

I wonder, did you happen to grow up without a father?

I am not trolling.

Have you ever heard of white-hat? It's kind of a whole tech industry based on what you've described.

[Ainwein]

RMT scum X goes to a valuable item camp and gets a valuable item, then trades it for cash to Noob Y. Without RMT, that camp is either a) open or b) occupied by normal players because X is doing whatever else. This isn't rocket science.



What inflation? I remember buying a Hierophant's cloak for 100k 3 months after Kunark came out (well actually I traded a Rod of Mourning, but same thing). Now said cloak is 35k. Reality is everything is dirt cheap now.

Sorry - you are correct on the 2nd point. I suppose deflation is the accurate term here.

In your first point you're making a very arbitrary distinction between someone camping something to gather platinum, and someone camping to gather platinum which they then intend to sell. There is no harm to the server or its players in either scenario, EXCEPT in the latter you feel cheated because 1) Someone can spend money to be better than you (This is whiny) and 2) your bestest bro cashed out and your feelings are hurt.

[Detoxx]

So because someone can't handle walking away from a table, its gambling's fault? I'd argue that person's family were victims long before that person stepped up to the table.

So how does that relate to RMT?

Can anyone show me a victim in this "crime"? Some could argue the buyer is the victim, but the market has a well known "buy at your own risk" clause that's been plastered all over the forums more than once. So really...who is the victim in this crime?

Was in response to this. Im merely pointing out that because there isnt and immediate victim, doesnt mean there isnt a victim at all.

[Nordenwatch]

Finally.. RNF!

[Ainwein]

Big bucks....

If you need money why not use your time on a real job, Or get invested in some RL markets? Cowardice? Lack of education? Parents not letting you use their car to get to work?

Why do you assume he doesn't have a job?

I am very comfortable, but if someone offers me 20k I'd be stupid as fuck not to take it. The only difference between him and you is that he made money off his time playing p1999, and you won't.

[kenzar]

Was in response to this. Im merely pointing out that because there isnt and immediate victim, doesnt mean there isnt a victim at all.

OR a victim at all.

[Red_Psyphon]

Ainwein you are a tool, it isn't whining because someone can spend money. Its because if we all bought items the game would be fucking pointless.

[Red_Psyphon]

I never said he didn't have a job btw, I'm assuming hes hard up for cash if you need to make money of a game. If you wanted to make money off games why aren't you working on your own game? Lazy ass.

[Tecmos Deception]

Finally.. RNF!

http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/george-takei.gif

[kenzar]

Ainwein you are a tool, it isn't whining because someone can spend money. Its because if we all bought items the game would be fucking pointless.

So...ad hominem is a great way to make a point.

[Nordenwatch]

so much butthurt in this thread

[Red_Psyphon]

Tatter just stop posting trying to defend RMT. You've been lurking on this server selling your garbage forever. If you can't see RMT for what it is you are either daft or just defending your own scummy behavior.

[Ainwein]

I never said he didn't have a job btw, I'm assuming hes hard up for cash if you need to make money of a game. If you wanted to make money off games why aren't you working on your own game? Lazy ass.

You are a moron.

He played this game for years, the same as many people here have. When he was done, he decided to get some return on his time investment instead of getting nothing.

A great way to be poor is turning away free money.

[kenzar]

Tatter just stop posting trying to defend RMT. You've been lurking on this server selling your garbage forever. If you can't see RMT for what it is you are either daft or just defending your own scummy behavior.

What is RMT?

[Red_Psyphon]

Lol what you did with your jboots for half a year ;)

[kenzar]

Lol what you did with your jboots for half a year ;)

I camped jboots for a month, and bought an AoN. Is that what RMT is ?

[Red_Psyphon]

Sure thing pal

[Red_Psyphon]

Also ainwhine its not that he cashed out. Don't care if you got a million for some pixel package either. It's about ruining the fun most people came here for. If you lived off the game and quit I guess I would want a retirement fund too. Scumbags.

[Orruar]

Point being that because its a "victimless crime" it doesnt mean there isn't victims. When a gambler spends all of his life savings and destroys his family and childrens college fund, they become victims.

They're only victims if they had a claim on ownership of the money in the first place. If it was all dude's money, then there is no victim. Just a bunch of people who have a shitty father/husband. Don't water down the term "victim" to mean anyone who doesn't get as much as they could have possibly gotten in a perfect world. The word becomes meaningless then.

[casdegere]

Why do you assume he doesn't have a job?

I am very comfortable, but if someone offers me 20k I'd be stupid as fuck not to take it. The only difference between him and you is that he made money off his time playing p1999, and you won't.

It would entail what one has to do for the 20k, not just that there is 20k to be made so it's a worth while endeavor. I wouldn't sell drugs to kids or agree to kneecap someone no matter how much money you offered me. Thus, the separation of understanding that is being displayed here.

[Ainwein]

Also ainwhine its not that he cashed out. Don't care if you got a million for some pixel package either. It's about ruining the fun most people came here for. If you lived off the game and quit I guess I would want a retirement fund too. Scumbags.

How the fuck does him selling his plat ruin your fun? And why do you assume he 'lived off the game'?

Go outside. Jesus Christ.

[Barkingturtle]

They're only victims if they had a claim on ownership of the money in the first place. If it was all dude's money, then there is no victim. Just a bunch of people who have a shitty father/husband. Don't water down the term "victim" to mean anyone who doesn't get as much as they could have possibly gotten in a perfect world. The word becomes meaningless then.

When he gets married and has children, it ceases being his money.

This is pretty basic man stuff. Have some fucking respect for yourself.

[Nordenwatch]

It would entail what one has to do for the 20k, not just that there is 20k to be made so it's a worth while endeavor. I wouldn't sell drugs to kids or agree to kneecap someone no matter how much money you offered me. Thus, the separation of understanding that is being displayed here.

are you seriously comparing selling pixels to people who have more money than time to selling drugs to kids and kneecapping people..?

[Ainwein]

It would entail what one has to do for the 20k, not just that there is 20k to be made so it's a worth while endeavor. I wouldn't sell drugs to kids or agree to kneecap someone no matter how much money you offered me. Thus, the separation of understanding that is being displayed here.

l o l

I'll repeat what I said earlier: I challenge any of you white knight shut-ins to print this shit out and show it to someone in real life and explain your rationale for turning down 20k. I'm sure they'll be very moved by your impassioned defense of the classic EQ experience. Please make sure to include this last post, because I think it's the best.

RMT on p1999 = selling drugs to children.

[Orruar]

When he gets married and has children, it ceases being his money.

This is pretty basic man stuff. Have some fucking respect for yourself.

In your mind, self respect entails giving up any notion of personal property in a family environment? How odd. I'm guessing you let your kid have just as much right to use your car as you do?

[casdegere]

l o l

I'll repeat what I said earlier: I challenge any of you white knight shut-ins to print this shit out and show it to someone in real life and explain your rationale for turning down 20k. I'm sure they'll be very moved by your impassioned defense of the classic EQ experience. Please make sure to include this last post, because I think it's the best.

RMT on p1999 = selling drugs to children.

Though I shouldn't but I will...

Wrong is wrong regardless of its degree and that is why you fail.

[Red_Psyphon]

Ainwhine you clearly haven't even read this thread if you don't understand how someone selling shortcuts is ruining people trying to play legit. Let alone anything else going on here. Learn anything economics also if you don't understand the ridiculous inflation that comes with RMT in games. It straight up destroys currency value and Legitplayer01 has to spend 10x the time to afford an item because RMTscum02 wont sell for less plat then the dollars he would have made selling said item(s).

[Nordenwatch]

Though I shouldn't but I will...

Wrong is wrong regardless of its degree and that is why you fail.

lol what are you on

[Orruar]

Though I shouldn't but I will...

Wrong is wrong regardless of its degree and that is why you fail.

Same punishment for jaywalkers as we give to rapists then, yes?

[kenzar]

This is RnF now? I'm out.

High points of the thread:
Spitty's ideal defense attorney
RMT being equated to selling drugs to children
Barking not knowing what white hat is.
People thinking I RMT Jboots...srsly?



I ran the Jboot Inflation Team, sure. And yeah jboots cost double what they used to, but nickel and dime RMT, I'm insulted.

[Nordenwatch]

What inflation? I remember buying a Hierophant's cloak for 100k 3 months after Kunark came out (well actually I traded a Rod of Mourning, but same thing). Now said cloak is 35k. Reality is everything is dirt cheap now.

Learn anything economics also if you don't understand the ridiculous inflation that comes with RMT in games. It straight up destroys currency value and Legitplayer01 has to spend 10x the time to afford an item because RMTscum02 wont sell for less plat then the dollars he would have made selling said item(s).

[Barkingturtle]

In your mind, self respect entails giving up any notion of personal property in a family environment? How odd. I'm guessing you let your kid have just as much right to use your car as you do?

You are quibbling like a bitch. I suspect you are weak. Let me tell you how I know:

It is blatantly obvious that a man who gambles away his wealth is failing to provide for his family.

You don't seem to get that. It says a lot about the boy you are.

[Lune]

Both sides understand each other; it's just that no one is going to be convinced.

The people arguing for Nordenwatch aren't going to be convinced, and the people arguing otherwise aren't going to budge. At the end of the day he made a dick move; there's nothing that can really done about it that hasn't been done. The temptation he faced seeing $20K is certainly understandable, but it still makes him an ass to cash out. The only currency left to traffic in here is respect, and it obviously doesn't mean a whole lot to some of the people here.

I do find it interesting the lengths Nordenwatch is going through to justify his actions to the rest of us despite having no stake left here.

Petain here has it right

The thread is just an exercise in who has integrity, and who doesn't. It's really been pretty entertaining watching you scumlords wiggle with morality as you try to justify your behavior.

I just wanted Mr. Nord to know there are people out there who disapprove, and that (at least) some of the community does indeed understand his decisions, yet still disapproves. Of course, he doesn't have any reason to give a fuck.

[Detoxx]

You are quibbling like a bitch. I suspect you are weak. Let me tell you how I know:

It is blatantly obvious that a man who gambles away his wealth is failing to provide for his family.

You don't seem to get that. It says a lot about the boy you are.

qft

[casdegere]

Same punishment for jaywalkers as we give to rapists then, yes?

I could make that argument...

Near where I live, people who actually have jobs have to put up with people jaywalking in droves. Sometimes, in the evenings where there are little or no street lights. These people 'look' to get hit and have their lawyer in their contacts list. They sue honest, hard working people and their insurance companies. So yes, either way, someone is getting raped.

[Splorf22]

I am not trolling.

Have you ever heard of white-hat? It's kind of a whole tech industry based on what you've described.

A white-hat hacker discovers flaws in the system and then tells people about them. The various exploiters we have seen on P1999 have somehow forgotten about that second step.

Bad analogy is bad.

[Orruar]

You are quibbling like a bitch. I suspect you are weak. Let me tell you how I know:

It is blatantly obvious that a man who gambles away his wealth is failing to provide for his family.

You don't seem to get that. It says a lot about the boy you are.

I never defended a person who gambled their life savings away. But you can't really call his family victims without completely destroying the meaning of the word "victim". If anyone is a victim simply because they weren't given as much by others as they could/should have been, then pretty much every single person is a victim. And a word that can apply to anyone has zero meaning. Too complex for you to understand? Just get all upset and spout off some more petty insults instead. It's the RnF way after all.

[Nordenwatch]

I could make that argument...

Near where I live, people who actually have jobs have to put up with people jaywalking in droves. Sometimes, in the evenings where there are little or no street lights. These people 'look' to get hit and have their lawyer in their contacts list. They sue honest, hard working people and their insurance companies. So yes, either way, someone is getting raped.

no you can't, that's not an argument

[JayN]

no one made 20k off this elf sim, your a moran if you think this! ill just keep repeating this. Since you keep repeating your tired downy shit

[JayN]

no such thing as a white hat they are all grey hats btw, get real

[Splorf22]

I never defended a person who gambled their life savings away. But you can't really call his family victims without completely destroying the meaning of the word "victim". If anyone is a victim simply because they weren't given as much by others as they could/should have been, then pretty much every single person is a victim. And a word that can apply to anyone has zero meaning. Too complex for you to understand? Just get all upset and spout off some more petty insults instead. It's the RnF way after all.

There is a difference between being a libertarian and abandoning all sense of civic responsibility.

P.S, for all you nuts talking about how RMT is fine, Al Pacino says fuck you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUE4v1rUpSM

[casdegere]

I never defended a person who gambled their life savings away. But you can't really call his family victims without completely destroying the meaning of the word "victim". If anyone is a victim simply because they weren't given as much by others as they could/should have been, then pretty much every single person is a victim. And a word that can apply to anyone has zero meaning. Too complex for you to understand? Just get all upset and spout off some more petty insults instead. It's the RnF way after all.

I completely disagree ofcourse. It's not just about who has and who doesn't have. In this instance, this man (or woman) has lied, defiled trust and possibly taken money from his partner, food out of the mouths of his children, threatened the security and well-being of his family due to (insert any number of vices here) To say that his family has not been victimized would be in error.

[Tiggles]

no one made 20k off this elf sim, your a moran if you think this! ill just keep repeating this. Since you keep repeating your tired downy shit

Thank you for saying this.

[Barkingturtle]

I never defended a person who gambled their life savings away. But you can't really call his family victims without completely destroying the meaning of the word "victim". If anyone is a victim simply because they weren't given as much by others as they could/should have been, then pretty much every single person is a victim. And a word that can apply to anyone has zero meaning. Too complex for you to understand? Just get all upset and spout off some more petty insults instead. It's the RnF way after all.

It's not that your point is too complex for anyone to understand, it's simply that you're wrong in believing your personal definition of the word victim means anything to anyone other than yourself.

What makes you the final word on who's been hurt enough to qualify as for victimhood? Grow up. The world is bigger than you(although not by much because I can tell you're very fat).

[Derubael]

There's two main victims of RMT on P99.

The first is the RMT'ers themselves, and their integrity and character as a person. When you go to someone's house, you agree to abide by their rules. If you went to your friends house, said 'Don't worry pal, I won't smear shit on your walls' and then smear shit on their walls anyway, you're hurting your integrity as a human being. Similarly, when you come play on Project 1999, you are in Nilbog and Rogean's house, and you've agreed to abide by their rules. When you decide to break those rules, you're not only violating their trust in you as a player, but hurting your character in the process.

In addition to that, you're taking advantage of a free game that Nilbog, Rogean, and the Development Team work hard to provide for you, pouring their own time, money, and resources into maintaining. Instead of spending money on platinum, you could have been donating your money to the server that provides you with a wealth of entertainment and friendships. Every time money is spent on platinum, you're essentially spitting in the face of the people who provide you this free service.

Playing on this server is a privilege, not a right, and we all greatly enjoy being able to help facilitate the use of that privilege. But the moment you take advantage of that, or help someone else take advantage of that (funding people who sell RMT), we're going to remove that privilege because you are insulting the people who gave it to you in the first place.

Arguments could be made that it hurts the economy, or that it cheapens the experience, but that's not the big issue here. If you love classic Everquest, support the people who help you experience that free of charge - not the people making money off of Nilbog and Rogean's generosity, kindness, and love of the game.

The second victim is me, because it takes stupid amounts of time to track all of this down ;). That's CSR time that would be much better spent helping the player-base. So in a way, you're all victims too.

That's my 2pp.
tl;dr Support the project, not the people taking advantage of it. Also don't be a scumbag.

[Orruar]

Is breaking trust really the threshold for victimhood to you people? Maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe you do all see yourselves as victims every time you have your trust broken. I prefer not to view myself as a victim just because someone lied or didn't give me every penny they possibly could have. Sounds like a really sad and depressing life. I mean, I'm sure playing the victim feels good because it absolves you of all responsibility for your situation, but jesus it must make you feel so worthless at the same time.

[Barkingturtle]

Maybe I'm wrong here.

Nailed it, now shut the fuck up.

[Orruar]

Nailed it, now shut the fuck up.

Ah darn. I admitted possible fault in an internet forum. Please call me fat again to put the nail in my coffin.

[Asap]

Will start calling people idiotic idiots, thanks Barkingturtle!

Forumquest champ!

[Splorf22]

Orruar there is a substantial difference between sitting around playing the worlds smallest violin and realizing that your actions have effects on other people, and trying to minimize the negative ones and maximize the positive ones beyond pure legality.

Derubael, thanks for chiming in.

[Orruar]

Loraen, that is fucking hilarious coming from you. Didn't you sort of try to burn down your guild before leaving? I won't be taking moral advice from you anytime soon.

[Senix]

There's two main victims of RMT on P99.

The first is the RMT'ers themselves, and their integrity and character as a person. When you go to someone's house, you agree to abide by their rules. If you went to your friends house, said 'Don't worry pal, I won't smear shit on your walls' and then smear shit on their walls anyway, you're hurting your integrity as a human being. Similarly, when you come play on Project 1999, you are in Nilbog and Rogean's house, and you've agreed to abide by their rules. When you decide to break those rules, you're not only violating their trust in you as a player, but hurting your character in the process.

In addition to that, you're taking advantage of a free game that Nilbog, Rogean, and the Development Team work hard to provide for you, pouring their own time, money, and resources into maintaining. Instead of spending money on platinum, you could have been donating your money to the server that provides you with a wealth of entertainment and friendships. Every time money is spent on platinum, you're essentially spitting in the face of the people who provide you this free service.

Playing on this server is a privilege, not a right, and we all greatly enjoy being able to help facilitate the use of that privilege. But the moment you take advantage of that, or help someone else take advantage of that (funding people who sell RMT), we're going to remove that privilege because you are insulting the people who gave it to you in the first place.

Arguments could be made that it hurts the economy, or that it cheapens the experience, but that's not the big issue here. If you love classic Everquest, support the people who help you experience that free of charge - not the people making money off of Nilbog and Rogean's generosity, kindness, and love of the game.

The second victim is me, because it takes stupid amounts of time to track all of this down ;). That's CSR time that would be much better spent helping the player-base. So in a way, you're all victims too.

That's my 2pp.
tl;dr Support the project, not the people taking advantage of it. Also don't be a scumbag.

Dat slope is soooooo slippery.

If this honestly is the best argument the staff has against RMT I would have just kept it to myself. At least through silence some might think that the Staff knows something we don't or whatever. But you laying it out and showing your hand like that just shows that it is in fact victimless.

[Orruar]

Also, you clearly have no idea what I was even talking about. I made no claim to whether a given action was good or bad. Only whether the word "victim" should be applied to all situations where someone doesn't get the maximum benefit from other people as they could.

[Nordenwatch]

Loraen, that is fucking hilarious coming from you. Didn't you sort of try to burn down your guild before leaving? I won't be taking moral advice from you anytime soon.

wtf did he do?

once again fuck you loraen

[JayN]

Orruar there is a substantial difference between sitting around playing the worlds smallest violin and realizing that your actions have effects on other people, and trying to minimize the negative ones and maximize the positive ones beyond pure legality.

Derubael, thanks for chiming in.

Im glad im not the only other person who feels this way

[Orruar]

Loraen, I really dislike your stance on kitten torture. I think all kittens should have a chance to live a happy kittenhood and grow into cats without being constantly tormented with severe pain.

[Splorf22]

Didn't you sort of try to burn down your guild before leaving?

I'm guessing you're loading up your sentence with qualifiers because you know it's silly bullshit. I'm also guessing I hit a nerve there, if the best you can do is some random ad hominem.

[Nordenwatch]

What'd you do? This is a tell-all thread Loraen nobody will judge you, you fucking prick

[Frieza_Prexus]

Dat slope is soooooo slippery.

Not really. They've devoted thousands of hours to making this server available to the public, and one of the few rules is no RMT. Not respecting that is loose butthole.

Additionally, how do you know they've shown their hand? There very well might be an actual agreement with Sony that RMT must not occur past a certain point or we'll be shut down. There's no reason to think that they'd disclose such an agreement for a variety of reasons.

[Orruar]

I loaded my sentence with "qualifiers" because I didn't catch much of the story and don't really give a shit about P99 guild drama. That's also why there is a question mark on my sentence. A question mark denotes an attempt to gain more information about the situation.

[Orruar]

I'm guessing you're loading up your sentence with qualifiers because you know it's silly bullshit. I'm also guessing I hit a nerve there, if the best you can do is some random ad hominem.

Also, that's the best I could do because your post was completely devoid of any relevant points. Make a point that actually addresses anything I was saying and maybe you'd get more of a response. And I still disagree wholeheartedly with your kitten torture theories.

[Senix]

Not really. They've devoted thousands of hours to making this server available to the public, and one of the few rules is no RMT. Not respecting that is loose butthole.

Additionally, how do you know they've shown their hand? There very well might be an actual agreement with Sony that RMT must not occur past a certain point or we'll be shut down. There's no reason to think that they'd disclose such an agreement for a variety of reasons.

I don't know that they've tipped their hand completely, but it was a def show of weakness if that's all they could muster.

There is also no reason to believe that such an agreement exists.

And finally one of their few rules is all but unenforceable in cases like this. The offending player is leaving, so go ahead and ban him, big deal. The buyers knew the inherent risk involved and can easily take steps to avoid banning their main accounts, since accounts are free. So how is this at all stopping RMT? It's not.

[Splorf22]

I loaded my sentence with "qualifiers" because I didn't catch much of the story and don't really give a shit about P99 guild drama. That's also why there is a question mark on my sentence. A question mark denotes an attempt to gain more information about the situation.

So despite admitting to having no fucking clue, you felt justified in making strong statements about my moral compass. /facepalm

Also, that's the best I could do because your post was completely devoid of any relevant points. Make a point that actually addresses anything I was saying and maybe you'd get more of a response.

My point was that rather than quibbling about the legalistic definition of 'victim', a little compassion for a family torn apart by addiction was in order. Considering that you are desperately alternating between backpedaling, spinning, and throwing out random shit about kittens in an attempt to deflect it, I'd say its safe to say that regardless of your claims to the contrary you figured things out.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I don't know that they've tipped their hand completely, but it was a def show of weakness if that's all they could muster.

There is also no reason to believe that such an agreement exists.

And finally one of their few rules is all but unenforceable in cases like this. The offending player is leaving, so go ahead and ban him, big deal. The buyers knew the inherent risk involved and can easily take steps to avoid banning their main accounts, since accounts are free. So how is this at all stopping RMT? It's not.

They have next to zero teeth against Nordenwatch, and banning his account does very little to stop the flow, you're right. However, following where the money went absolutely puts a dent in it. Just look at Platlord's site right now. His entire inventory has been decimated.

When the dust settles all you have left is that a person decided to be a dick by cashing out when he said he wouldn't when he first started here. It's a lack of respect for the rules and the people who made this server possible. We certainly understand his temptation, and we all know why he did it. That still doesn't change the fact that it was extremely disrespectful to everyone else.

I think much of the outrage here isn't moral. Instead, I think a lot of it is hurt because the people who knew him expected better behavior from a person they knew as a friend and cohort.

[Nordenwatch]

http://www.searchquotes.com/sof/images/picture_quotes/69595_20130708_042310_1003644_353524384773376_5490 29521_n.jpg

[Splorf22]

expected better behavior from a person they knew as a friend and cohort.

I have to say that when Derubael told me Nordenwatch was RMTing, I wasn't all that surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

[Nordenwatch]

I have to say that when Derubael told me Nordenwatch was RMTing, I wasn't all that surprised. Disappointed, but not surprised.

well near the end when all my chars were naked.. it was pretty obvious what was going on if you really thought about it at all

[Senix]

They have next to zero teeth against Nordenwatch, and banning his account does very little to stop the flow, you're right. However, following where the money went absolutely puts a dent in it. Just look at Platlord's site right now. His entire inventory has been decimated.

When the dust settles all you have left is that a person decided to be a dick by cashing out when he said he wouldn't when he first started here. It's a lack of respect for the rules and the people who made this server possible. We certainly understand his temptation, and we all know why he did it. That still doesn't change the fact that it was extremely disrespectful to everyone else.

I think much of the outrage here isn't moral. Instead, I think a lot of it is hurt because the people who knew him expected better behavior from a person they knew as a friend and cohort.

So they decimate platlords stock. So he turns around and starts buying plat from the server populace again. It's cyclical, he loses his inventory, he starts buying plat again then selling it for a mark up. There is no stopping it.

How is this disrespectful to anyone?

[Orruar]

My point was that rather than quibbling about the legalistic definition of 'victim', a little compassion for a family torn apart by addiction was in order. Considering that you are desperately alternating between backpedaling, spinning, and throwing out random shit about kittens in an attempt to deflect it, I'd say its safe to say that regardless of your claims to the contrary you figured things out.

I guess the whole kitten thing went over your head. You got all righteous about a position I never took on this issue, and so I was doing the same to you. I'm sorry that I had to take the time to explain this to you. It should have been rather obvious if you were thinking clearly.

And will you please stop getting all morally indignant about some weird position you think I have taken here? I never said a family whose father goes and wastes all his money at the craps table doesn't have it bad. Certainly anyone would feel bad for that situation. But there is a difference between that situation and one where an actual crime has been committed. If you can't tell the difference, that's on you. Luckily civilized society is able to make such distinctions.

[Derubael]

I don't know that they've tipped their hand completely, but it was a def show of weakness if that's all they could muster.

There is also no reason to believe that such an agreement exists.

And finally one of their few rules is all but unenforceable in cases like this. The offending player is leaving, so go ahead and ban him, big deal. The buyers knew the inherent risk involved and can easily take steps to avoid banning their main accounts, since accounts are free. So how is this at all stopping RMT? It's not.

There's a plethora of reasons why we don't allow RMT here, but the topic was who RMT hurts the most, not why it's against the rules. You're damaging yourself and spitting in the faces of the people who let you play here for free. You're also wasting CSR time and potentially preventing other people from getting the help they need. But who cares, right? It's not like we volunteer 1000's of hours helping this community and this project.

Lot's of people got not only their main accounts, but their friends' main accounts banned as well. Why take the risk?

Their house, their rules. If you don't like it, there's the door.

[Frieza_Prexus]

So they decimate platlords stock. So he turns around and starts buying plat from the server populace again. It's cyclical, he loses his inventory, he starts buying plat again then selling it for a mark up. There is no stopping it.

How is this disrespectful to anyone?

They cannot stop it, but they can certainly impede it.

It's disrespectful because a condition of playing here is that you will not do it. If you ask a person to take their shoes off before they walk on your carpet, what do you call it when they refuse? Disrespect. There's the additional factor that we've been told it jeopardizes the server and the staff's relationship with Sony. While this factor is certainly far looser, it does exist and death by injunction is certainly within the realm of possibility.

These factors are the essence of why it is disrespectful.

[Orruar]

P.S. Stop the kitten torture. It's really messed up man.

[Daldolma]

This isn't about victimhood, it's about the commons.

Is the entire server victimized by RMT? In some small way, probably -- but not any more so than every single person is victimized by a billion minor external factors that make some aspect of their life sub-optimal.

But what we've got here is a genuine commons. It's open to all, and maintained by server staff. We all benefit from the upkeep of the commons. When you RMT, you shit in the commons. When enough people shit in the commons, we all feel the effects. None of us are personally victimized by any one RMTer, but the cumulative effects impact the server's functionality and legitimacy.

So what someone like Nordenwatch does is make extensive, humiliating, life-ruining use of the commons, then when he's decided he's extracted maximum utility from someone else's sandbox, he cashes out and leaves the sandbox a little worse for the people that remain.

Also, you would be much, much better off working a job at McDonald's in terms of cash-out. Rags to riches guide to burger-flipping coming up next.

[Nordenwatch]

To reiterate the point I've made multiple times: PLAYING EQ EXPRESSLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING MONEY IS A WASTE OF TIME

[Splorf22]

They're only victims if they had a claim on ownership of the money in the first place. If it was all dude's money, then there is no victim. Just a bunch of people who have a shitty father/husband. Don't water down the term "victim" to mean anyone who doesn't get as much as they could have possibly gotten in a perfect world. The word becomes meaningless then.

is brimming with empathy. You came into this thread with dumb quibbling legalistic post, got called out on it, and now are just throwing out more and more shit in an attempt to distract from it. That's why I called your kittens random.

P.S. Still waiting for an apology for criticizing my morals with no basis.

[HippoNipple]

It's not like we volunteer 1000's of hours helping this community and this project.


Yo Derubael can you lend 5 of those minutes to red and turn the exp back on, shit accidentally got turned off and the server is feeling blue as fuck.

Thanks.

[Barkingturtle]

Orruar is victimizing himself, imo.

[Orruar]

is brimming with empathy. You came into this thread with dumb quibbling legalistic post, got called out on it, and now are just throwing out more and more shit in an attempt to distract from it. That's why I called your kittens random.

P.S. Still waiting for an apology for criticizing my morals with no basis.

Keep on waiting buddy. If you want to start with the straw man, don't get upset when it's done right back to you.

[Orruar]

Orruar is victimizing himself, imo.

Must... eat... more... donuts...

[Senix]

There's a plethora of reasons why we don't allow RMT here, but the topic was who RMT hurts the most, not why it's against the rules. You're damaging yourself and spitting in the faces of the people who let you play here for free. You're also wasting CSR time and potentially preventing other people from getting the help they need. But who cares, right? It's not like we volunteer 1000's of hours helping this community and this project.

Lot's of people got not only their main accounts, but their friends' main accounts banned as well. Why take the risk?

Their house, their rules. If you don't like it, there's the door.

Be honest, its more like: If you don't like it, there isnt much we can about it until we catch you and even then its not that bad.

[Wrench]

To reiterate the point I've made multiple times: PLAYING EQ EXPRESSLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING MONEY IS A WASTE OF TIME

confirm or deny: you shit in nilbogs sandbox and dont care?

[Lune]

Be honest, its more like: If you don't like it, there isnt much we can about it until we catch you and even then its not that bad.

I don't know, maybe this guy was bullshitting, but it kinda sucks to spend $100 have it go *poof*, no?

http://i.imgur.com/nirLJUp.jpg

[Senix]

I don't know, maybe this guy was bullshitting, but it kinda sucks to spend $100 have it go *poof*, no?

http://i.imgur.com/nirLJUp.jpg

I'm not talking from a buyers perspective. I'm talking about a seller. Specifically one that is on the way out anyway.

[Barkingturtle]

I'm not talking from a buyers perspective. I'm talking about a seller. Specifically one that is on the way out anyway.

They go to hell, duh.

Seriously though, what is your fucking point? That we're basically operating under the honor system here and it's easily exploited by dickheads? Ok. Point conceded.

Most of us agree to this social contract because we share a vision of what the server should be like. We share that vision with the server's founders. They ask us to largely police ourselves. Some people simply have less self-control.

[Vraji]

So...YOU! a confirmed RMTer sold almost a million platinum in gear to players and out of all those players you sold stuff to none of them where TMO?

Yet TMO is filled with RMTers?

You sound like an idiot bro.

Also, You don't have to "Bother Paypal" i just logged in 15 seconds ago and I can pull up transactions from 5 years ago in an instant.

You are a liar and just looking for attention like Nordenwatch.
Post something of value or get lost.

Someone PLEASE RNF this thread!

If you're a leader in TMO then please do your guild a favor and deguild yourself because you are an idiot.

Do you think someone who is RMTing is going to use a paypal.com account name and email that is linked to their main accounts. Of course not. Get your head out of the sand and just accept the fact that TMO rmts and stop demanding receipts and court like evidence to prove what people already know.

You'd have to be the dumbest enter player in the world to do your RMTing on your main too...

Seriously dude go back to school =p I don't think I sold to TMO because when I handed plat to the level 1 human necro just created to hide the buyers in game I'd I didn't ask if they were in TMO or what not...... TMO has it's own internal rmt where do you think people like guidos 57578493 fungus went??

[Vraji]

Lol autocorrect on ipad fungi = fungus

[Vraji]

You have to understand the mechanics behind it: a new player joins p99, wants to get a fungi tunic for his new rogue he has massive plans to level 60 and raid vp.

New player Buys plat online.....buys fungi tunic from quido for example for 100k pp then quido slips that pp in to his bank and funnels it out to say plat lord for 1.50-2 dollars per k, plat lord sells plat for 4 dollars per k to new player who buys another fungi camped etc etc..

Half the time the newbie quits.....the other half holds on fore awhile and quits...etc etc..

[Senix]

They go to hell, duh.

Seriously though, what is your fucking point? That we're basically operating under the honor system here and it's easily exploited by dickheads? Ok. Point conceded.

Most of us agree to this social contract because we share a vision of what the server should be like. We share that vision with the server's founders. They ask us to largely police ourselves. Some people simply have less self-control.

You've made my point better than I ever could have. Thank you.

[Vraji]

It's not rocket science - if there is a demand for something there is corruption involved somewhere so Tiggles get your head out of TMOs collective arse and wipe the brown nose you have =p

[Barkingturtle]

You've made my point better than I ever could have. Thank you.

No problem.

Next time you're fumbling around trying to express yourself just ask.

[jaybone]

Tiggles doesn't have a brown nose he's just a fucking retard.

[Ahldagor]

how the fuck did this reach 40 pages?

[justin2090]

More bans please. Need more plat sink.

[August]

To reiterate the point I've made multiple times: PLAYING EQ EXPRESSLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF MAKING MONEY IS A WASTE OF TIME

Please stop using the word reiterate. This goes for all of you. Look up the pre-fix 're'. Look up the prefix 'iterate'. Then shoot yourself.

[Champion_Standing]

Please stop using the word reiterate. This goes for all of you. Look up the pre-fix 're'. Look up the prefix 'iterate'. Then shoot yourself.

lol

Then look up the word reiterate.

[Lune]

Please stop using the word reiterate. This goes for all of you. Look up the pre-fix 're'. Look up the prefix 'iterate'. Then shoot yourself.

'sperg' 'master'

spergmaster

[Glenzig]

So I guess all the people that are defending RMTing would have no problem if they were camping a fungi tunic and I walked in with a group of my friends and started kill stealing from them? I mean its just a different play style? I choose to play my way. I don't want to follow server rules and I will do what I want and defend it as right til the bitter end. If you don't want me kill stealing your lewts, then get a life and play 24 hours a day and farm when I'm not there. This is a victimless crime. Its all just pixels. Grow up.

[Briscoe]

So I guess all the people that are defending RMTing would have no problem if they were camping a fungi tunic and I walked in with a group of my friends and started kill stealing from them? I mean its just a different play style? I choose to play my way. I don't want to follow server rules and I will do what I want and defend it as right til the bitter end. If you don't want me kill stealing your lewts, then get a life and play 24 hours a day and farm when I'm not there. This is a victimless crime. Its all just pixels. Grow up.

Tell your kill stealers not to walk my way...

[Nordenwatch]

So I guess all the people that are defending RMTing would have no problem if they were camping a fungi tunic and I walked in with a group of my friends and started kill stealing from them? I mean its just a different play style? I choose to play my way. I don't want to follow server rules and I will do what I want and defend it as right til the bitter end. If you don't want me kill stealing your lewts, then get a life and play 24 hours a day and farm when I'm not there. This is a victimless crime. Its all just pixels. Grow up.

your victims: those you are kill stealing from

[Glenzig]

your victims: those you are kill stealing from

No. Those people don't count. I have my own standards on victimization. Pixels and Elf simulators dont count. Even though I take them seriously enough to kill steal camps, I downplay their importance when it suits my agenda. I don't care about server rules set up by the people who run this game for us. Grow a pair and get real.

[Glenzig]

Tell your kill stealers not to walk my way...

What can you do?? We play on the blue server bro. you'll have to make sure you are more l33t than my group. But I have been kill stealing for a living. You wont beat my group.

[Glenzig]

Im a hero. I kill steal from other guilds and provide for my own. You should all worship me in this scenario. I'm righteous.

[Barkingturtle]

What can you do?? We play on the blue server bro. you'll have to make sure you are more l33t than my group. But I have been kill stealing for a living. You wont beat my group.

Not sure you heard his words; what they mean; what they say.

[Frieza_Prexus]

your victims: those you are kill stealing from

You victims: The owners of the server who set the rules, the players who have their hobby jeopardized by the aggregate of RMT that you have publicly contributed to, and the server itself.

Tax evasion is a crime, but no identifiable person is hurt, right? The government isn't a person, so no foul, right? Where's the harm in that? Daldoma hit the nail on the head. It's the tragedy of the commons, and you're still here trying to justify being an ass. You broke the rules, you contributed to a series of behaviors that risks the hobby of everyone but yourself now that you're done, and to top it off you're here trying to justify yourself to a community that you just took a shit on.

Why are you still here?

[Glenzig]

Not sure you heard his words; what they mean; what they say.

Oh. Hey. Yeah I forgot about my own name for a sec. Thnx.

[Glenzig]

You victims: The owners of the server who set the rules, the players who have their hobby jeopardized by the aggregate of RMT that you have publicly contributed to, and the server itself.

Tax evasion is a crime, but no identifiable person is hurt, right? The government isn't a person, so no foul, right? Where's the harm in that? Daldoma hit the nail on the head. It's the tragedy of the commons, and you're still here trying to justify being an ass. You broke the rules, you contributed to a series of behaviors that risks the hobby of everyone but yourself now that you're done, and to top it off you're here trying to justify yourself to a community that you just took a shit on.

Why are you still here?

The sad thing is that you know, you just know that not long after Velious is actually released on this server, he will make another account. If he was that OCD about making pixel money, and he's still hanging around the forums, you know he can't just let it go. It eats at his very soul.

[Alawen]

Wow! This sure was an entertaining shitstorm to read for the last hour or so. I think I can shed a little light on a few things.

First, let's talk about the difference between the law of the land and civil agreements. RMT is not illegal. If Nilbog, Rogean and associates knew Nord's real name, law enforcement would not help them try to prosecute him. They could try civil litigation, but I can't think of any great theory for them to pursue. It would just be a waste of time and money. You're breaking the rules of an elfsim, no more and no less. It doesn't need to be escalated into something it isn't.

The extreme use of hyperbole here really isn't helping anything. All these analogies about selling drugs to children and gambling away their college funds are just silly. The most rational explanations of what is wrong with this situation are Daldolma's application of the tragedy of the commons and Xasten talking about the disrespect of RMT. Even the analogies here break down and it's really best to talk about exactly what it is. Using metaphors doesn't add anything to the discussion.

As a long-term (and possibly still?) member of The A-Team, people are getting a really wrong idea of what happened in our guild. As you can tell, Loraen, who was our leader, was and is venomously anti-RMT. We had some very good players in A-Team. We had at least half a dozen members who could liquidate their gear for over a million plat, including me. To my knowledge, the only one who did is Nord. The rest of us still have a ton of gear sitting in mothballs, waiting for Velious or whatever.

We were, however, righteous farmers. Now did we monopolize popular spawns like jboots and Ragefire and so on? With the notable exception of the fungi camp, no, we did not. We looked for underutilized zones and spawns. We died like pigs trying to figure out how to solo and duo difficult camps. It was hard and it was fun and it was very profitable. In many cases, we brought items to the market that few people previously had access to. Hop on red for a while and you'll see that items that you're used to being common are not available unless you want to grossly overpay for them. Case in point: someone was trying to buy Donal's Gauntlets today for 15K. Good farmers provide a valuable service and help to develop the server economy.

Finally a few words about a few individuals. The attacks on Tecmos are unfounded. He plays well and he plays respectfully. Inventing details about his personal life just shows how weak the attacks on him are. Debate the arguments, not the man's character.

Nordenwatch played EQ hard, but he was very disciplined about his hours. I can't even tell you how many times he said, "I have to study this afternoon and tonight, see you guys tomororow." In game, he was extremely active in very complicated ways--he already explained his cycle of camping fungi and rogue epic pieces and looking in on the EC tunnel action at the same time. Imagine what he could have done if he were boxing. I should mention this: to the best of my knowledge, no one in A-Team was ever boxing. For all the stated and implied judgments of Nord's character, the man is a hard worker and his attention to detail is meticulous. Like it or not, he's going to do well in life.

Finally, I am very disappointed in Barking Turtle's posts in this thread. Something about this RMT discussion disrupted his usual humor and light-heartedness. I think that tone would have brought a lot to this discussion. He could have made fun of RMTers in general and Nordenwatch in specific in his usual style and been a lot more effective than this rabid dog bark approach.

Incidentally, I've been farming the entire time I was reading and responding to this thread.

[Wudan]

I know nothing about economics

So pls stfu. Wallstreet is full of unscrupulous croocks like yourself who worship money so much they dont have any moral integrity left. We all seen where it leads.

I do hope irs gets this fuck, is there any way how to help them find him? Lets shit on his welcome mat and splash in his pool too! Im gonna have a youg lawyer look into this...some croocked type who wont mind ruining someones life over a viedo game

[Wudan]

NORD did you at least donate part of the cash to developers or did you just keep it all like the motherfucking croockyou are?

[Barkingturtle]

Finally, I am very disappointed in Barking Turtle's posts in this thread. Something about this RMT discussion disrupted his usual humor and light-heartedness. I think that tone would have brought a lot to this discussion. He could have made fun of RMTers in general and Nordenwatch in specific in his usual style and been a lot more effective than this rabid dog bark approach.


I made a poop analogy. I'm not sure how much more light-hearted it gets. Regardless of what you may think, I accomplished my goal in this thread. I made a poop analogy.

As far as real life consequences for Nord's actions -- it's not outside the realm of possibility if he's being honest about his chosen career. Lawyers, even those who specialize in criminal defense, are held to a character standard -- despite what the posters here have learned from watching The Good Wife and Judge Judy. Has Nord reported this income accurately? I don't know, but I find it hard to believe he has. Someone suggested he's probably reported it as a gambling windfall or the like. Well, if he has, he's lied on a tax form. People get disbarred for this. That's real talk. I know it flies in the face of everything we learned from Arnie Becker, but it's true.

And I'd hesitate to say Nord possesses attributes which suggest he'll do well in life. Frankly, his actions suggest a lot of myopic thinking -- EC Tunnel-vision, if you will.

[radditsu]

Nordenwatch the James Spader of the forum lawyers. Zeelot is the Ally McBeal.

[Alawen]

Nordenwatch the James Spader of the forum lawyers. Zeelot is the Ally McBeal.

It disappoints me that we have no real young doctors, but A-Team had at least two genuine young lawyers.

[radditsu]

It disappoints me that we have no real young doctors, but A-Team had at least two genuine young lawyers.

Doctors would be working 60 hours a week then slaying puss on the off nights. They aint got no time for eq. Especially on this server.

[Daldolma]

Over 40,000 Americans graduate from law school each year whereas under 20,000 graduate from med schools. Being a lawyer isn't impressive unless you go to an elite school or graduate at the top of your class. The top ~5,000 law graduates every year do really well. The bottom 10,000-15,000 probably shouldn't have gone to law school at all, from a financial standpoint.

[radditsu]

I make more than most lawyers I know. And I did not have to go to law school. All I had to do is be good at puters.

[Nocsucow]

I make more than most lawyers I know. And I did not have to go to law school. All I had to do is be good at puters.

a buddy of mine is a buildings IT for a financial company ... i think there is like 450people/PCs int he building they pay him 180k a year plus bonuses and he has a GED with about 18 months at some tech college ... education dont mean shit imo

[Alawen]

I'm honestly surprised that people keep going to law school in such numbers. I think almost everyone knows a bunch of lawyers working outside their field. I've never seen such an over-saturated market.

In contrast, I don't know a single CPA who doesn't have an accounting job.

[Nocsucow]

I'm honestly surprised that people keep going to law school in such numbers. I think almost everyone knows a bunch of lawyers working outside their field. I've never seen such an over-saturated market.

In contrast, I don't know a single CPA who doesn't have an accounting job.

if im not mistaken the lawyer who won my cousins kids for him took online classes to get certified to represent people in divorce court ... not sure what his income is but his house was selling for 460k last year before he bought it ....

[Frieza_Prexus]

I'm honestly surprised that people keep going to law school in such numbers. I think almost everyone knows a bunch of lawyers working outside their field. I've never seen such an over-saturated market.

In contrast, I don't know a single CPA who doesn't have an accounting job.

It's a huge problem, and new students are not fully informed of the reality. The ABA needs to kill about 100 schools. I made the same mistakes; its worked out well for me, but at the time I made the decision I was woefully misinformed. Thank God I have 0 debt. Most aren't so lucky, and it is absolutely debilitating.

[Daldolma]

a buddy of mine is a buildings IT for a financial company ... i think there is like 450people/PCs int he building they pay him 180k a year plus bonuses and he has a GED with about 18 months at some tech college ... education dont mean shit imo

Ask most Ivy League law/med grads what they'd do if they capped out at $180k a year and then reconsider.

$160 plus bonuses is entry-level for top lawyers. Partners at major firms make well over $2 million per year, on average.

[Frieza_Prexus]

if im not mistaken the lawyer who won my cousins kids for him took online classes to get certified to represent people in divorce court ... not sure what his income is but his house was selling for 460k last year before he bought it ....

It is definitely possible to make bank with a crappy degree, but not likely at all. For every one making it, the road is littered with the corpses of the damned who didn't pull it of. Daldoma was right: if you don't go to a top 14 school or a strong regional with a great scholarship, you're probably making a bad decision. The advantages of the elite schools are just too numerous for the third tier toilet schools to compete with.

[Alawen]

I have a pretty good friend who doubled down on his bad choice by hanging out his own shingle. He's taking all these petty cases like speeding tickets trying to make ends meet and now his wife is pregnant.

I don't think money rules the world (I'm chasing an MFA), but I think it's important to make conscious and well-informed choices.

[Nordenwatch]

I do not live in the US and I did get into an "elite" law school in the country I am in, so I'm not too worried.

[Daldolma]

I do not live in the US

take back everything i said, will pray for your village

[Gaffin 7.0]

take back everything i said, will pray for your village

lol'd

[Fame]

lol

[Nordenwatch]

playing on red for fun as Nordanwatch!

[Rhambuk]

I do not live in the US

lucky.

take back everything i said, will pray for your village

that'll do a lot of good im sure

[Bazia]

You'll like red bud, easy to take control of such a small economy

[Nordenwatch]

I'm definitely not going to play nearly as intensely as I did blue. If anyone wants to level with me hit me up! Nordanwatch, near Field of Bone right now.

[Detoxx]

I'm definitely not going to play nearly as intensely as I did blue. If anyone wants to level with me hit me up! Nordanwatch, near Field of Bone right now.

ETA on when youll RMT off there too?

[Lune]

He's at it again!

http://i.imgur.com/HYITa4R.jpg

[Lyrith]

ETA on when youll RMT off there too?

He's still on step 2, give him some time...



This is how I did it:

Step 1: Roll a low budget farming character.

Step 2: Level up to 49 as fast as you can.

[Fhenom]

well thats one way to go out..be good or be good at it eh. Chump change in the grand scheme of things though.

gl man. not gonna hate , had some good times.

[Waedawen]

"black market activity" this isn't the fucking underground economy IRL dude its an elf simulator.

CORRUPT? how delusional are you? ITS A FUCKING GAME

dude you're a fucking moron, for real

[Waedawen]

Is breaking trust really the threshold for victimhood to you people? Maybe I'm wrong here. Maybe you do all see yourselves as victims every time you have your trust broken. I prefer not to view myself as a victim just because someone lied or didn't give me every penny they possibly could have. Sounds like a really sad and depressing life. I mean, I'm sure playing the victim feels good because it absolves you of all responsibility for your situation, but jesus it must make you feel so worthless at the same time.



I fail to see how 'breaking trust' is a 'victimless crime'

[Red_Psyphon]

Lol @ ripping people off for shit items on ESO.

[Nordenwatch]

or die tryin'

playing ESO as Nordenwatch! hit me up, got a VR1+ trading guild in AD.

[CharlesBarkley]

nord you fuckin dork

[Nirgon]

Nordenwatch is the man. Ordinarily I SPAT upon human necros.

[Galvatar]

Nordenwatch,

You unbelievable sack of shit. Like most normal people I saw this thread, posted my two cents, then walked the fuck away. That was roughly 03-27-2014, 01:04 AM when you decided everyone needed to hear about just how much of a cunt you are. So today, May 5th, I check the forums probably for one of the 5 times since then, (which is over a month ago) and I see you posted TODAY.

So fuck my two cents, we are in rants and flames, and since you evidently don't get the picture let me paint it for you, you fucking retard.

Fuck you.

I was in your guild. I may not have been the most powerful member, or had the most raid attendance, but I want on my fair share of trips with you. You rolled on everything under the sun, and called it "fair". Items you didn't need, items which other people could have used, and you called that fair. You couldn't solo any of these encounters yourself, you needed people who trusted and supported you. For you to RMT is one thing, but for you to come on the forums and present yourself as the first motherfucker who came up with the idea of being a scumbag EC tunnel rat (off the backs of a small, close knit group of skilled players who actually enjoy the game) is so pathetic it's almost laughable. In fact, the idea that I helped you in anyway cash out diminishes me both as a player and as someone (who I thought) was your friend to a degree I don't think you would ever get. Because you are a sociopath. I've never been more convinced of that than I am after seeing you just won't let this go.

Now kindly fuck off.

[kenzar]

Nordenwatch,

You unbelievable sack of shit. Like most normal people I saw this thread, posted my two cents, then walked the fuck away. That was roughly 03-27-2014, 01:04 AM when you decided everyone needed to hear about just how much of a cunt you are. So today, May 5th, I check the forums probably for one of the 5 times since then, (which is over a month ago) and I see you posted TODAY.

So fuck my two cents, we are in rants and flames, and since you evidently don't get the picture let me paint it for you, you fucking retard.

Fuck you.

I was in your guild. I may not have been the most powerful member, or had the most raid attendance, but I want on my fair share of trips with you. You rolled on everything under the sun, and called it "fair". Items you didn't need, items which other people could have used, and you called that fair. You couldn't solo any of these encounters yourself, you needed people who trusted and supported you. For you to RMT is one thing, but for you to come on the forums and present yourself as the first motherfucker who came up with the idea of being a scumbag EC tunnel rat (off the backs of a small, close knit group of skilled players who actually enjoy the game) is so pathetic it's almost laughable. In fact, the idea that I helped you in anyway cash out diminishes me both as a player and as someone (who I thought) was your friend to a degree I don't think you would ever get. Because you are a sociopath. I've never been more convinced of that than I am after seeing you just won't let this go.

Now kindly fuck off.

dude, its a game. stop being bad at it.

[phacemeltar]

you made 10 grand from RMT? WHHY am i always late to the party :(

[CharlesBarkley]

dude, its a game. stop being bad at it.

He's right in that this guide is pretty goof troupe, thanks for tip to spend life in the tunnel and flip items until you get banned

[Ungriim]

Norden- let's partner up and crash another market!

[Pint]

Norden- let's partner up and crash another market!

Nobody is paying stupid high prices for my wares anymore, maybe you two could fix this?

[Jfertal]

This made it all worth it stealing king from you countless times

[Nordenwatch]

Norden- let's partner up and crash another market!

shield of rainbow hues 250k bro

[Ella`Ella]

This made it all worth it stealing king from you countless times

good times!

[Nordenwatch]

This made it all worth it stealing king from you countless times

a kill stealer? ARREST THIS DUDE

[jaybone]

Oh look nordenwatch back on red now where plats worth 4x blue.